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Transcript of an oral history interview with Dr. Carlos F. A. Pinkham, conducted by Jennifer Payne at Norwich University in Northfield, Vermont, on 9 January 2014, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Carlos Frank Armory Pinkham graduated from Norwich University in 1965 and later returned to the campus to teach in the College of Math and Sciences. His interview includes many details of his academic career as well as recollections from his military service and family history. ; 1 Carlos Frank Amory Pinkham, NU '65, Oral History Interview January 9, 2014 Interviewed by Jennifer Payne CARL PINKHAM: Vermont. JENNIFER PAYNE: And your (inaudible) [00:00:02] class? CP: Nineteen sixty-five. JP: Ah, did you have a nickname at Norwich? CP: Not really, no. JP: No? The yearbook has you as Pink, but I imagine -- CP: Oh, yeah, Pink is -- Pink is -- if anybody used a nickname it was Pink. Yeah, mm-hmm. JP: Oh, what made you decide to choose Norwich? CP: It was very easy. My father taught here, and so as a poor university professor this is the only place he could afford to send me (laughs) because I got tuition free. JP: What was his name and what did he do? CP: Vernon Curtis David Pinkham. So, again, four names. It's a tradition in our family. JP: What did he teach? CP: He taught economics. JP: So, you came to Norwich pretty much straight out of high school. CP: Yes. JP: And were you interested in science then? CP: I have been interested in biology ever since I was able to think. So, I knew when I came here what I wanted to do. I knew what I wanted to do when I was a kid. JP: Really? CP: Yeah. I wanted to get a doctorate in biology. At the time that I came here I wasn't sure what field in biology. It was really a choice between evolution and marine biology, but I knew that I wanted to do that.2 JP: Wow. So who was your roommate when you got here? CP: Oh, boy, when I got here -- I don't remember. I do know that he never finished and I don't remember his name. JP: Do you remember any of your roommates? CP: Sure, Joe [Koons?] [00:01:50] was my sophomore year roommate and he never finished, and then Don Graves was my roommate in my junior year; he did finish. And Bob Priestly was my roommate in my senior year. JP: No kidding? CP: Yeah. JP: That's great. Now I know you've looked at these questions. Is there anything in particular that you want to focus on or start with? CP: No, not really. Just go ahead and fire away and we'll progress as ever we can. JP: Yes, OK. Your activities when you were here were humongous. You were in everything. You were corporal, master sergeant, correct? Major biology -- you were in the biology club, one, two, three, four president -- president twice; geology club, one, two, three, four; honor tank platoon, three and four; German club one, three, and four Vice President; AUSA three and four; mountain and cold weather; winter carnival committee; regimental ball committee; Epsilon Tau Sigma Vice President. CP: That's the honorary society -- the academic honorary society. JP: And you were in Who's Who, also, I noticed in the yearbook. You were on that page, but the list doesn't stop. You were in the varsity club two, three, four; class honor committee to cadet cadre two, three, four; dean's list one, two, three, four; DMS, which is -- CP: Distinguished military student. JP: Wow. What was your GPA? What was your -- CP: I was second in my class -- JP: Wow! CP: -- and the person that was first in my class, Harry Short, and I competed for that position all four years and his is a sad story because he beat me and legitimately so; he was a very smart person. He went on to med school, got his MD and in my fifth year of graduate school, I found out that he had just been killed in an airplane crash that he was flying himself. So that was probably one of the saddest things that had ever happened and has 3 ever happened in my life -- to lose this very dear friend who was my arch competitor, but still a person that I had a lot of respect for. And really it was -- another aspect of that is that I -- up to that point I kind of thought of those of us who were in this top echelon as being untouchable. In other words, somehow we were just -- our lives were special and therefore they would not be expendable and that woke me up to the fact that in fact that was a very incorrect assumption to proceed with. JP: So what do you remember most about Norwich? CP: Oh, (laughs) there's so many things. I remember, and this is going to go on to one of the other questions, William Countryman, my favorite professor, and it's hard to pick a favorite professor because there were certainly three that I had -- William Countryman, Bert Wagenknecht, who was the botany professor at the time in biology, and of course, the ever traditional and ever present Fred Larson, who played a major role in my interest in geology. So, these are the three people that vied for my preferences as the favorite professors, and Bill -- but Bill because I had him more often than all of the others. I think he won out, but he was a very special professor anyway. He was smart, knew how to teach, and knew how to keep his classroom in stitches, which is something that is very important for a good teacher to have. It's something that I never developed as a teacher, I have to admit. JP: How did he keep you in stitches? CP: Oh, he just had great stories that were always able -- that always fit in to whatever lesson he was talking about and he had a great sense of humor. He was a very wonderful fellow. I ended up working for him, actually, when I came back here for a number of years because he went into private consulting and I worked for him. That's the story we can get into a little bit later. JP: Yeah. Because you went to the military after, but what was the hardest part? It seems like you probably did very well. Were you ever disciplined? CP: No, no. Should I have been? Yes. (laughter) JP: For what? CP: Oh, there were a couple of times I think when -- well, the one time that I remember specifically is when I was the executive officer of the third battalion my senior year. I think I had a soccer game. I think that's what it was, and so I went on the soccer game without thinking about the fact that I had to make sure there was somebody who took my place in formation because the battalion commander I knew was not going to be there. And so one of our class cut ups, who was just -- went on to become a great guy -- probably because he was a class cut-up, took over the battalion at the time and he made a pretty good farce out of it from what I understand, and I was about ready to get some demerits and I think my dad stepped in and prevented that from happening. I don't know, but I know I never got them.4 JP: What did he do? CP: Well -- JP: The farcical -- CP: Oh, what did he do? Oh, he just got up and mocked the protocol, the commands and everything. I don't know. I don't know exactly what happened. I just heard that it was pretty farcical, so -- JP: Norwich cadets cutting up? CP: Right, right. JP: No, say it isn't so! So what was your least favorite? Did you have a least favorite class here? CP: Well, I suppose it had to be English. And the reason for that was that I hated writing; I didn't know how to write. And, again, there's a story about how that can be -- how that turned around, but after I got out of grad school, and so I'll hold that until later. But at the time I hated the writing aspect of English. I didn't mind the reading aspect, the reading of the different literary assignments, that was fine, but, boy, I just did not like writing. JP: OK. What was the most important thing that Norwich taught you? CP: There are several things, but the first thing I learned, I guess, is that nothing ever lasts forever, and that was a lesson I learned in rook school, and it was a lesson that I think a lot of people learned in rook school because if you didn't learn that lesson, you couldn't get through rook school. That's a valuable lesson to learn if you're really being confronted by things that are difficult at the time. It's good to know that it can't last forever. The second lesson, and I think this is one that has probably, Norwich teaches more than anything else, and I have not seen it as something that is grasped by the powers that be as something that they need to promote, and that is that done properly, if you allow it to do it to you, allow Norwich to do this to you, you discover that your limits are way beyond where you thought they were, way beyond spiritually, way beyond physically, way beyond mentally because Norwich has a tendency to push people. It was pushing people when I was a cadet here and it still does push people and in ways that many other universities don't. And one good proof of that happened my sophomore year. In the eighth grade -- I've got to go back a little bit -- in the eighth grade is when we moved to Northfield because dad took the teaching position that year, and in my homeroom I went into the first day, and of course being an eighth grader boy, I was very interested in girls, and I saw silhouetted against the window this very pretty, cute blonde and I said, "Well, that's kind of a neat girl." And so I asked about her and found out that she was going with somebody else and so being an honorable person I decided I probably 5 better not interfere. But a little while later I heard that someone had said that she was interested in me, which of course was all I needed to do. So I approached her and we struck up a relationship that lasted through the sophomore year of high school and she eventually broke off with me about that time -- at that time because she thought I was pretty much so a namby-pamby, which I was, and then -- but I always had a crush for her and the sophomore year, New Year's Eve, I had a date that didn't come through and so on just a whim I called her up because she was a townie as well, obviously, and asked her out to New Year's Eve and she didn't have a date that night, so she accepted. And from that point on we were a couple and she has now been my wife for almost 50 years. JP: Awww, that's so sweet. CP: Yeah, so basically she just liked what she had seen -- the change in me that was -- that Norwich had brought about. JP: What's her name? CP: Christine. JP: Christine. CP: Yeah. JP: Wow, so Norwich helped her fall in love -- CP: That's exactly correct. And she'll admit that, too. I'm not making this up. (laughs) JP: Did the words "I will try" mean anything to you as a student? CP: It means -- it's hard for me to kind of express because I think I always felt that way, and I always was a little bit disappointed with it because I want to do more than try; I want to succeed. And I think that probably of all of the things that Norwich did for me, its motto was not one of the things that I carried with me throughout my career. I mean, I just knew I would try. Maybe that's why Norwich and I were such a good fit, I don't know, but in any event. JP: Well, you were obviously successful from an early time. Do you have any funny stories about life or people at Norwich? CP: (laughs) I don't know whether I want to tell one of them. Well, I guess probably the story I will tell is that the infamous panty raid -- JP: Oh, yes. CP: Roy [Bear?] [00:14:58], Dick Herbert, and myself had heard about this thing happening but we were at my house that night. And we finally decided after the news had come that 6 it was probably interesting enough that we ought to go over and take a look. So we went over after it had been done and interestingly enough we were watching -- after most of it had been done -- just to watch and at this point I have mixed emotions about whether I should have been involved or not, but at any event, one of things we noticed is that the police and the fire -- well, the fire department was using a lot of fire hoses on the few that were left and they were doing most of the damage with their fire hose that was finally attributed to Norwich cadets. They were breaking windows with the water and everything. And so we were standing around, and of course we looked like Norwich cadets because we had short hair, and one of the policemen came up to us and said, "Are you guys from Norwich," and I said, "No, not me, I'm from Northfield. I'm a townie," and that wasn't a lie because I was, but at that point in time we recognized maybe we better get out of there. So we got out and came back to my house and eventually got back into school. You know, they were checking everybody coming back in at that point in time and we had not been involved in the raid and so we -- this is our junior year -- so we were let back in, and again, I think it was partly because my dad vouched for me and said yes, they were at home at our house, and that was true. So, that's one of the episodes that I think is kind of humorous. JP: So you were questioned along with everybody else that had gone? CP: Yeah, sure, sure. JP: Interesting. Were there other panty raids? I had heard there might have been annual -- CP: I wasn't aware of it and certainly nothing as big as that. I know that one made national headlines and (laughs) -- JP: Yes, yes it did. What did you do after graduation? CP: Well, I was commissioned in armor, but because of my grades and because of other good letters of recommendation from my profs and performances on the GREs, et cetera, I was allowed to defer to active duty to go to grad school. And this is during Viet Nam so I was very happy with that. I wasn't going to argue that and so I had applied to the three -- by then I knew that I wanted to do evolution -- I had applied to the three universities in the nation at the time that were giving doctorates in evolution -- Harvard, University of Illinois and UCLA. Was accepted to all three with scholarships and decided I needed to get far away but not too far away. So I chose the middle of the two, University of Illinois, to go to grad school, and went to grad school there and had a great experience and learned and awful lot. And had -- in those days you had four years of total deferment to active duty to get your doctorate -- and four years to get a doctorate in biology is really difficult if not, you know, you have to really be smart, even smarter than -- I shouldn't say even smarter -- I worked hard, I wasn't smart, I just worked hard -- and smarter than me. So at the end of the fourth year I still hadn't had my degree, but what I did -- there were two things that happened. I found out that if I had a doctorate I could switch from armor to medical service corp., which is what I had originally put in for anyway, and so there was caveat on that, though. I had a two-year obligation, active duty obligation, in 7 armor. If I switched my branch then I would have to have another two years, in other words, a total of four year obligation. So this is where I think my Norwich training came in really, really helpful in about two tenths of a second I had the decision. You know, two years of which one would have to be in Viet Nam in a tank versus four years of which I would be applying what I had learned state-side in a research institution. It was a pretty easy decision to make and so I accepted the caveated offer to go to medical service corp. The other thing I did is we got in that fourth year you had an option on when to be put on active duty, and so I took the furthest one away from when I applied, which actually gave me almost five years of graduate study in grad school, and I cut it so close that on Wednesday night I defended my thesis, Thursday morning I boarded the plane for Fort Sam, officers basic course. JP: Wow! CP: Yeah, it was close. JP: Wow. CP: So, that was a very fortunate thing for me because getting into medical service corp. was fundamental to a lot of what happened to me from that point on. JP: In what way? CP: Well, because after officer's basic which is, you know, a three month assignment, I was assigned to Edgewood Arsenal and to the biomedical research lab there and my first assignment was to do research on a nerve agent poisoning -- the mechanism of a nerve agent poisoning, organophosphorus, the nerve agents, and to do that I had to kill cats. They were anesthetized and then we exposed them to nerve agents and monitored what was happening to them with some fairly sophisticated equipment and deduced from the responses what was going on. Well, you know, I'm not opposed to research of that sort but it was not something that I was really comfortable with and it turned out that the guy across the hall from me had just -- we were living in apartment houses at the time and so this is for married couples -- and so the guy across the hall from me had just gotten out of being the executive officer for the human experiment platoon. These were humans that had volunteered to undergo various kinds of experiments, most of which were with psychedelic kind of drugs. So it was kind of a difficult job to be in charge of them. And because he still had some active duty time, he was offered a position with the newly formed ecological research branch. Now his specialty was aquatics. He was a fisheries guy, marine and fresh water fisheries, and so he kind of fit right in and I'll explain why that was newly formed here in a moment. But he told me about this, and he said that they were looking for a person who had specialty in land and my, in addition to a doctorate in evolution, one of the -- the major area in evolution that I had worked on was mammals, mammalogy, and so I had a lot of experience with mammals as well as with reptiles and amphibians because one of my major mentors was Doctor Hobart Smith, who was probably the world's leading herpetologist at the time. So I had a lot of good experience that would put me into that position. So the next day I went over and talked to the newly 8 assigned director of the ecological research branch, Scott Ward, and told him what I was interested in and what my qualifications were and the next day I was reassigned to his branch. He had a lot of pull at the time. Why did he have a lot of pull? Here's why. He was a very sophisticated politician for one thing, but what he was heading up was a really dynamic and important endeavor at the time. Basically, Nixon, who has been maligned for a number of different -- well, for one thing, and that's Watergate, but really did an awful lot of good stuff during his presidency. National Environmental Policy Act, Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, diplomacy with China, et cetera. The list goes on. One of the things he did was he signed an executive order that unilaterally ended the open air testing of offensive, active -- of offensive and defensive biological and chemical weapons, and restricted any further research to just defensive research on biological and chemical weapons in labs. So, there were two places -- a number of places around the world where this research had been going on, two in the United States. One was in Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, the southern end of the Great Salt Lake desert, out in the middle of nowhere, which you would expect to be a place where this would be conducted. And there's some stories about that that I'll get into in the future, and then the other one was 17 miles northeast of Baltimore on Carroll Island, which is part of Edgewood Arsenal, an island -- a peninsula that jutted into the Chesapeake Bay. It was called an island because it was separated from the mainland by a channel of water, cooling channel from a power plant that was right there. And because they had stopped the open air testing the question was logically raised, was there any impact of the testing on the environment? Now Carroll Island it turned out -- well, both Dugway Proving Ground and Carroll Island formed these two groups to research this. On Carroll Island it turned out there were two parts to it. There was one part next to the mainland, and then there was an intervening large saltwater marsh, and then another part where all of the jutting out into the bay where all the testing had been done. And the two parts were fairly comparable to one another, so we had a very good control and a very good experimental area to do our studies on. So we started the study of that and that was the foundation of the Army's environmental ecological research effort, and so I was in on the ground floor of that, and that played a major role in my military career because -- well, one of the things that happened while we were there is as a result of the National Environmental Policy Act, we started getting into environmental assessments and environmental impact statements, one of the first groups to start doing that. And so, again, the procedures we developed and techniques and everything were eventually implemented -- became implemented into a lot of the Army approaches and regulations. To get a little ahead of myself I think it's important at this point to explain what happened at the end of the four years. I'm going to come back to Edgewood. At the end of the four years I was -- obviously my obligation, active duty obligation, was over and I thought, OK, this is it, I'm going to get out of the service. And I wanted to come back to Norwich and teach, quite honestly, and so I applied here but there wasn't a position available, and I really didn't know much about applying anywhere else, and I tried but I wasn't successful. But I had been offered a job at the sister organization out at Dugway Proving Ground as a civilian working, doing the same thing, extending what I had done at Edgewood. And I loved the job, I loved the people that I was working with both at Dugway, and by then we had formed this extended team where Dugway and Edgewood worked together, but I hated the environment of Baltimore, just didn't like the humidity in the summer, as a Vermonter I 9 couldn't handle it. So we took the job out at Dugway, and again, I'm going to come back to Edgewood, but I've got to finish this entry into Dugway because it's kind of a fascinating story. So, I had been out there many times and new I would love it, and so in order to make the final decision I had to take my wife and my two children out, then I had two boys, I now have three. So we left Baltimore when it was about 98 degrees and 150 percent humidity, not really, I mean, the air was just soaking. And we got on the plane and flew out to Utah and about 30 minutes out of Salt Lake City the pilot came on board and said the temperature in Salt Lake City is 110 degrees at which point my wife turned to me, she said, "As soon as we get off the plane we're turning around," because she was thinking 110 degrees with all of that humidity that we had just left behind, and I knew better. So I let her get off the plane and she looked around and she felt the air and she says, "I love it!" So I knew that we were sold on going out to Dugway. So, returning back to Edgewood, because we had these two wonderful control and experimental areas, we had a lot of wonderful data comparing two different community structures, those of let's say a species of trees on both places, fishes on both places, snakes on both places, amphibians on both places, mammals on both places, et cetera. And we had these wonderful databases. But at the time there was no way to really compare them because all of the mechanisms that were out there at the time, all of the methods that were out there at the time, were focusing on diversity, on measures of diversity, and we weren't interested in measures of diversity. We were interested in how alike are these two communities or how different are these two communities. So, the guy across the hall who introduced me to Scott, his name is Gareth Pearson. He eventually went on to become one of the directors in one of the labs of EPA, very successful career. JP: EPA is? CP: The Environmental Protection Agency. So Gareth and I sat down one night with this problem and a bunch of paper with some of our data on it spread out on the floor in his apartment and a six-pack of beer. And by the end of the six-pack, we had solved the problem, and we had developed an index that would compare these two communities in a very -- I've got to say clever way -- and in a very effective way and started applying that our data and then of course published it and this index, the Pinkham Pearson Index, is now regarded as the primary way to compare community structure. So we were very fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. I'm sure if we hadn't come up with it, somebody else would have. It's one of those things that's fairly obvious once you look at it, but, you know, we were there at the right time. JP: That's wonderful. I was hoping you would talk about that. CP: So we had a lot of fun. We did some great things. Great in the sense of they were fun things and wonderful to do. We started the -- we were the -- we, Edgewood, actually, the team that I was part of at Edgewood, really established the concept of the installation environmental impact assessment or statement where basically you go in to an installation, an Army installation, and you identify all of the resources on and around that installation and all of the activities on that installation that could impact these resources, and identified ways to mitigate the impact so that the installation could continue its 10 mission. And eventually out at Dugway as we continued the effort, because by the time I was at Dugway it was such a large effort that we needed to have both camps involved in this process. Another colleague of mine that I met at Dugway, David Gauthier, whom I also kind of took on as a person that I would work with the rest of my life, David and I were the co-editors of a seven volume -- became the co-editors of a seven volume treatise on doing ecological surveys at military installations, and one of the volumes was doing all of the procedures involved in doing an environmental assessment of an installation. All of the different topics you've got to cover and all of the ways you can cover them, it was a fairly extensive document. And still is -- its descendants are still being used in the environmental program in the military. So, I really enjoyed that part of my life. We got to go and I got to see lots of different parts of the United States. Never got away from the United States, but some of the really interesting installations where testing was going on of one form or another, whether it was vehicle testing or artillery testing or whatever, we got to go to because they were part of testing evaluation command at the time, which Edgewood Arsenal was part of, and that's where most of the environmental documentation was happening. One of the things -- and again, it's a matter of being at the right place at the right time, very quickly or very soon after we started our effort at Edgewood there was an operation at Edgewood that had been going on for years and their procedures, their environmental procedures, were just terrible, and we told them that they were just awful and that they would have to do something about them and they snubbed their noses at us. About six months later EPA caught up with them, newly formed EPA caught up with them, and the directors, whom we had said you better do something about this, ended up going to jail. JP: Really? CP: Yeah. So that all of a sudden gave us the notoriety or the fame that we needed to have to get everybody's attention and from that point on we got to do some pretty neat stuff. And going from coast to coast and seeing things, you know, I saw my first rattlesnake, I saw my first copperhead and things of this sort which were fun. In the wild, you know, turning things over and finding them there, which is part of our technique, and developed further techniques for looking at -- finding whether or not a military operation had impacts. I think one of the fun ones was Redstone Arsenal where a government operated -- a government owned, civilian operated (GOCO) facility had been operating during the Second World War manufacturing DDT. Every time they had a bad batch they just threw it out the back door. So although the facility had been destroyed, long gone, this batch was still there. Now what happened is that Redstone Arsenal called us there because they knew that there was this stream that was entering a bayou or a backwater of the Mississippi that didn't have any life in it and they wanted us to find out what was going on. So what we did is we used a technique which, I don't know whether we developed or had been used by others, but in any event, you go up and every time you find a branch in the river, or in the stream, you sample both sides and when you do that, you know, one, every time we went there, one branch was fine, the other branch was dead. And we kept following it back up until we found this huge area, a two or three football field size area of old DDT, and it became one of the nation's hazardous waste facility -- sites -- that had to be cleaned up. So it was, you know, it wasn't anything that the people there were 11 trying to cover up or had been responsible for, it had been done a long time ago and we were able to find that. Another program that I think was a lot of fun is that my boss, Scott Ward, was a falconer and this was in a time when falconers were -- he was a falconer when it was legit to be, OK to be, a falconer. But then the Endangered Species Act came along, which again, was another Nixon thing, and that prevented falconers from being -- you know, without having a license. You had to be licensed to be a falconer and had to have a legitimate reason. Well, he was a veterinarian and so he got his license. He was a wheeler-dealer and he made sure that he got his license and then he started working with peregrine falcons and their recovery. As you may know, about that time DDT, again, here's this DDT rearing its ugly head, had been bioaccumulating in predator species, the peregrine falcon being one of them, so that to a level that the eggs were thinning, the shells were thinning and the parents were breaking them in the nest as they were trying to sit on them. So, there was a real decline in peregrine falcons. In fact, the peregrine falcon south of the Arctic had gone extinct. So, Scott was involved in studying their recovery and to do so he became the coordinator of the North American peregrine falcon banding program, and he would go to a number of different places, Greenland, Hudson Bay, I think Alaska, and band fledglings in the nest, and then we would go to Assateague Island in the fall and in the spring and trap peregrine falcons to see if any of them had been banded to find out where they were coming from because at that point in time we really didn't know very much of any -- the peregrine falcons that are now south of the Arctic are all derived from peregrine falcons that were in the Arctic. It's a different subspecies but basically it was the only opportunity is to take these fledglings and bring them back here, and that was a Cornell program, did a wonderful job, and breed them in a captive breeding program and then reintroduce them to the wild. But knowing we just didn't have any information on what their flight pathways were, where their migration routes were, and so Scott was instrumental in coming up with that information. And so I was able to go with him and, you know, this is a military assignment. (laughs) JP: It's a great job. CP: Somebody had to do it, right. And spend a week or two weeks in the fall and in the spring on Assateague Island trapping peregrine falcons and birding and all sorts of stuff. So that was a lot of fun. We got to know a lot of interesting people because Scott made his way through the people who had influence at the time. I think one of the more interesting things is that, for example, we would often capture peregrine falcons with -- peregrine falcons -- he would also do it on Carroll Island -- capture either hawks or accipiters or falcons and they would have feathers in their beak or we would find kills in the woods, and part of our study was, you know, what had they killed? And so he would take these feathers and sometimes just one or two feathers they pulled out of the corner of their bill and send them off to a gal at the Smithsonian Institution, I can't remember -- I think her name was Roxy or something -- and she would identify it just from a single feather what the bird was. So that was part of our ability to get some additional data. What are they preying on when they're at different places in their migratory pathway, et cetera. So, that was another, you know, it was just a lot of fun things that we got to do and we would seine for fish. 12 JP: And we're back. CP: OK, so I'm trying to think of -- in the back of my mind there's one more story I want to tell and I can't come up with it right now. So those were fun days. We really had a great time doing all that sort of stuff. Oh, I know what it was. Another story was with Chandler Robins. Now, Chandler Robins is, I think he's still alive, one of the greatest ornithologists in the country. He wrote a book on birds of North America and Scott knew him well, and so I remember one night we had been out doing some night surveys and he had a recording of a bird that he couldn't -- all he had was the song and so we got on the phone the next morning and called up Chan and said, "Chan, I want to play something for you. Can you tell me what it is?" So we just played it for him over the phone. Chan says, "OK, so let me see. It was probably about nine o'clock at night, it was raining slightly and the sound is coming from the middle of a marsh, am I right?" And Scott says, "Yes," and so he says, "Well, it's a Black Rail," which fits all of those things. JP: Wow! CP: So this guy really knew his stuff. (laughs) That's the kind of stuff that we were exposed to for all of this. It was a lot of fun. JP: Did you photograph it? CP: Oh, no, no because it was at night. But I photographed a lot of birds. In fact, because I spent so much time going around doing this sort of stuff, my life list of North America north of the Mexican border is about 420 birds, 420 species. That's not anywhere nearly as many as it could be if I were a serious birder, but just because I have travelled so much, it's a lot larger than a lot of birders do have. JP: That's a lot of birds. CP: It is. JP: And you were outside and making the world a safer place. CP: Hopefully so. JP: That's pretty amazing. CP: Yeah. JP: Wow. I'm always amazed by you guys. CP: Yeah, it's fun what we get to do.13 JP: What about the Oxford Round Table? I know I'm jumping ahead, but I want to make sure we get that. CP: All right, so the reason -- I want to also hit my military career because I think that's important and, oh, we're doing fine. So let's hit the military career and then we'll come back to the Oxford Round Table. JP: Absolutely. CP: After I got out of Edgewood, I told you I was thinking about getting out of the service, my brother, my oldest brother, who at the time was a colonel in the Reserves, said, "No, you've got to stay in," and he explained to me why I needed to stay in. He said, "The benefits that you would accrue for retirement and for Space-A travel and medical coverage, et cetera, are just fantastic. You've got to stay in." So I did, I decided to stay in. And to get to the end of that story before I come back I stayed in for 47 years or whatever it was, I mean, 37 years. I retired at 60 from the Reserves and when I retired it was in '06 and I was the senior, maybe we should say old man of preventive medicine science officers and as such I was the mentor for about 700 preventive medicine science officers in the Reserves, the National Guard around the world. And from Norwich, this is when I was doing this, I sent out a weekly newsletter. Every Saturday I would come down early in the morning and I would work until one or two o'clock in the afternoon putting together this newsletter of all of the events that were important to preventive medicine science officers that had happened in that week and sent it out to them. And it got to be such a big thing that many of the active duty preventive medicine science officers were subscribing to it as well. JP: What was it called? CP: The Preventive Medicine's -- Reserves Component Preventive Medicine Science Officers' Newsletter, very imaginative title for it. JP: But very useful. CP: But it was very useful. JP: Extremely useful. CP: Yeah, it was during the Iraq war and during Pakistan as well. The beginning parts of -- I mean, Afghanistan. JP: So what kinds of things would be in it, for example? CP: Oh, there would be health reports from around the world, alerts about outbreaks of different things. There would be announcements of upcoming conferences that -- one of the things that preventive medicine science officers -- most preventive medicine science officers are in the Reserves are not assigned to a unit. They are what is known as 14 individual mobilization augmentees. They're on their own basically and they have to get their 50 points a year on their own. Because all of us have advanced degrees, we don't fit into most units and if there is a unit, it's probably across the country that we could fit into, and some of the people fit into those units, they just had to travel and they did their two weeks of active duty. And so it was very important to be able to get these people, all of these people for retention purposes if nothing else, to recognize all of the opportunities they had to get points and part of my role in this was to provide these opportunities -- show them the opportunities that they had and make sure they were taking advantage of them. JP: That's terrific. CP: So that was another side of it. And unfortunately, I think after I left I found a successor and I think he, after a year or so, found that the job was so demanding that he had to back out and I don't think anybody else took over. But it happened during a time when it was really important too because we were so widespread and some us of involved in conflicts around the world that it was important for us to have that at that particular time. I'm sure it would still be valuable today, but I don't think anybody has followed up on it. But then that's another thing where Norwich guys have a tendency to see a need and fill it. Another thing, which also is a Norwich story, I think, is to get my points, one of the ways you can get points is to be a liaison to West Point, and what that means is basically that you are helping to guide the applicants for West Point from Vermont or from whatever state you're in, through the process so that they either are successful or not. Well, it turns out in Vermont I think we have a higher percentage of people that get in for reasons which are not worth going into here than most states. But you still, one out of ten, one out of 20 would make it. So, one of the advantages of that is it gave me an opportunity to direct the nine or 18 failures to Norwich which many of them did come here as a result. So that was a good recruiting opportunity as well. And Norwich -- West Point preferred to have of all of those senior military academies, they preferred to have either West Point or Norwich personnel fill those positions because they knew that they would do a good job and a serious job. So, let's see, what else is here? All right, we can go on to the Oxford thing. So, I, as I've stated earlier, had always been interested in evolution and ever since I was able to remember, I recognized that the beauty around me that I was fascinated with in nature, the butterflies, the flowers, the trees, the frogs, whatever I was attracted to at the time, was just not by chance but brought about by a creator. Now I grew up in a family with a Christian influence and background, but I myself, I personally never understood who Jesus Christ was and his importance to me, and just recently I kind of figured out a good way to explain that. As a kid I had understood that Christmas was all about me. And Easter somehow had something to do with this person called Jesus Christ but I wasn't sure what it was. And quite honestly I really went through childhood, school, here, graduate school, and well into my military career until early into Dugway assuming that. I now know that I got it totally backwards and in fact Christmas is all about Jesus and Easter is all about me and you and all of us, the rest of us who need to have the salvation of Jesus. Now the story, I mean, I'm not going to go there because I'm not sure that's appropriate for this but I just want to set the stage for this. So I had always felt that this creator must be really awesome, but because early on, and I don't know why, 15 I understood because I'd been reading well enough, you know, extensively enough, I understood the evidence for evolution and the fact that evolution was a mechanism. So, I began to become convinced that that God used evolution, we'll call this creator God, used evolution to bring about us, to bring about the universe, to bring about everything, and so I spent a lot of my time, in fact, I thought when I get out of grad school that that's what I would focus on but the military took me in different places. And I wanted to see if I could understand more about how evolution worked and how a creator might have brought this about. So when I got out of Edgewood, went to Dugway out there, there was -- obviously this is Mormon country and Mormons proselytize and they tried to proselytize Chris and I, and Mormons are wonderful people and my boss is a Mormon and I have an awful lot of respect for them, but we were invited to a Mormon gathering and treated wonderfully and they were a very friendly group of people and as we were going home, my wife and I were talking to one another -- no, we weren't talking to one -- we were very silent and one of us, and we don't remember to this day who said, "What did you think of that," and the other one said, "Well, my spirit was troubled," and the other one agreed that that was the case. And so we began looking at our roots and it turned out that at that point in time the chapel at Dugway -- now, let me explain something about Dugway. Even though I was a civilian because it was a remote post civilians were allowed to live on the installation, so we were living on the installation. So the chapel had just undergone a change in chaplains and my wife had started going -- after this incident she started going -- and she came home after one Sunday service fairly early in the process and said, "You got to listen, you've got to come and listen to this guy because he's talking about the evidence for God and for belief and, you know, the science of it all," and I said, oh, come on, this guy can't know what he's talking about. So, I went and come to find out he did. He had some very good compelling evidence. And so that started me on a year and a half of questioning, of investigation, of seriously considering the possibility that, in fact, this God that's talked about in the bible is, in fact, the same God, creator -- Lord God creator of the universe that I had been thinking about all along and worshipping myself. And after a year and a half of reading the bible, of seriously going to church, of going to adult Sunday school, of talking with people, et cetera, I was finally convinced and turned my life over to Jesus. So, from that point on I thought, well, OK, from here on I'm going to get back on to the track of this thing and it didn't happen, it didn't happen. I still continue the environmental movement and then about -- well, six years, six and a half years into being at Dugway my -- oh, I got to do the science fair. Don't let me forget to do the science fair. My wife's mom started showing symptoms of Alzheimer's and her dad began to try to deal with it. He was retired at the time. She never did work. And he was having some difficulty and as time went on it became increasingly obvious to us that Chris needed to go back and help her dad take care of her mom and it was a good time because at that particular point in time we had progressed enough in our understanding of what the Word says, the bible says, we felt that we had an obligation to honor our parents and come back here and so at the same time I had been working with a colleague of mine that we rode to work with. By then we had moved off the installation and we were living in a small town called Terra, Utah, which was ten miles east, roughly east, of the main gate Dugway Proving Ground, and it was across -- the ten miles were mostly across Skull Valley and the road was ten miles of absolutely arrow-straight road. So you got in your car, if you were awake it didn't matter because 16 you just aim, lock the steering wheel in, and ten miles later you were at the front gate. And so we had a lot of time for discussion as we were doing this and we had come up with an idea for -- we were both avid gardeners -- we come up with an idea for preserving, allowing us to start our garden early using some -- he was a chemist and I'm a biologist -- using some very well known, well established properties of water and when it freezes it gives off heat called the heat of fusion and that heat could protect your plants from freezing. They do it in orchards, for example, by spraying water. So we came up with a device and it took us a little while to come up with it, but we came up with a device called the Wall O' Water Plant Protector. And so I figured, alright, this is going to give me my key, we can go back here and this is going to provide enough income, but it became obvious to me that this was going to take awhile for this to grow and so I had been going to officers advance course with three people. One of them was a chaplain that had been involved with my coming to the Lord. Another one was a person that I met in Salt Lake City in Utah. This is Salt Lake where the course was, who was a business major and so the business major heard about what we were doing because one of the nights we had to talk about something we were doing and I talked about it and he said, "Oh, this is a great idea. I want to help you make this happen." So he became the president of the company and he got things rolling as far as the business side is concerned. And so I was convinced that this was going to be my key to being able to come back here. Well, as I said, it very quickly became obvious it was not. It takes, like any new idea, almost any new idea, it takes a long time to get going and I decided well I better consider trying to find a job back here. Well, it turned out that Chris had been flying back to help her dad for just a little while and on the same flight she ran into Roy Bear who was flying out Midwest for something, I can't remember what it was, and they got talking, of course they knew each other from here, and he said, "Well, you know, I have been teaching anatomy and physiology in summer school, and I just don't want to do it anymore. So there's an opportunity for Carl to teach that." Well, I had never, you know, my major was at the population level or above. I mean, my focus, and I had not really had much in the way of physiology. But I, you know, this is an opportunity, I couldn't refuse this. So I put in for it and I got the job and that was important because it filled in a part of my education that was lacking because I started focusing not at the population level and above in the levels of complexity, but at the species level and below in levels of complexity. So, it really rounded out my education by forcing me to learn the material. You know, if you want to learn something, teach it. And so all of that played a role in -- as I was going through and teaching I was seeing things that played into very nicely into this idea that, you know, there really is a creator behind all of this. And so in the middle of all of this I suddenly get a letter out of nowhere. I have no idea, and I've asked them and they won't tell me where they got my name, but I got a letter saying that the Oxford Round Table is having a session on faith and science, the great matter, and would I like to be involved in it. And my initial reaction was I'd like to be and I've been thinking about this a lot and I've got a lot of thoughts on it, but, boy, do I have time to put something together and my three sons said, yes, you've got to do this, Dad. And so I said yes and I put the paperwork through Norwich and they said yes and so I was invited to go to the Oxford Round Table and make a presentation. And that's when I had to formally put down all of my thoughts. Since that time, and that was published online and since that time I've had a chance to present it elsewhere and to develop the thoughts a lot more 17 and the evidence now is even more compelling in my mind than it was even when I did it at Oxford. The primary thing that we have to recognize is that -- and this is something that makes sense if there is a creator behind all of this, is that science now fully recognizes, there are very few scientists who don't agree with this, that the universe began with an event called the Big Bang, 13.82 billion years ago and that accompanying that event the universe was imbued with about 20 fundamental forces constants and masses whose values are such that if they weren't exactly what they were we wouldn't be having this recording and that does two things. It says A, there's a beginning, so if you've got a beginning logically you've got to have something who begins it. An uncaused cause as it's sometimes referred to, and, also, that that beginning was accompanied with some very suspicious characteristics. Now, science by definition, and properly so, eliminates -- it doesn't eliminate. It admits it cannot investigate miracles. It is just not designed to follow miracles. Science can give us insights that I think can help us to understand whether or not miracles are possible, whether or not there is a God. And the point that this revealed at the time was that we have enough information, science has enough information about that moment of creation or of coming into existence of the universe, let's not call it creation at this point, that it has to be explained or it can be explained only by invoking infinity because only with infinity can you get all of these 20 or so values coming together with their precise values. Presumably they're independent coming together and having a situation where you would have a universe come into existence because the probability of this happening is so, so very, very tiny, all of them with their values. So, there are about eight ways of the sciences come up with explaining this and all eight of them can be reduced to this use of infinity and I say there are three ways that we invoke infinity. Science embraces two. One is that the universe is infinite and we're in the part that works with these constants, these values, or the other is that there's an infinity of universes and we're in the one that works, or that the universe is created by an infinite mind. And quite honestly, at this point anyway, we cannot distinguish among those three. Each of them is arguably just as logical as the other. There are many scientists who would say that the third one is not acceptable and I would challenge them the way Ravi Zacharias and other people challenge them in that maybe they have some personal biases that they need to look at seriously. But be that as it may, I, in looking at this and accepting this, discovered that there are eight phenomena that keep recurring again and again at what I call essential conditions that in the evolution, in the progress, the evolution from the Big Bang to us whether it's cosmological or chemical or biological evolution, there are requisite conditions that have to occur and every time you find a requisite condition, you identify a requisite condition, there are eight phenomena that are associated with it that happen, that are met, and so it makes me wonder if there's this pattern, is there something behind the pattern? And that's where all this comes in and obviously I believe there is, there is a creator God behind this. JP: So this paper generated quite a bit of -- CP: Quite a bit of thought and discussion and continues to. Yeah, absolutely. So, one of the other reasons we wanted to come back to Norwich, to continue on in this vein, was that I had as part of the coming to a belief and a faith in Christ, and being at a military installation, it was logical that I would find Officers Christian Fellowship. Officers 18 Christian Fellowship is a fellowship, as it states, of officers in the military and this is the Army -- the US branch of it, but there's worldwide groups called by different names, who embrace Christian faith and use it, try to use it, in their life and in their leadership roles. And so I encountered it and became convinced that was something that Norwich could benefit from. And so one of the reasons we came back was to form a Christian fellowship at Norwich using Officers Christian Fellowship as our basic model. So we came back in 1982. Chris preceded me by about four months and so we -- I arrived here in March -- permanently arrived here in March of 1982, getting ready to teach that summer school course, and I began immediately looking for a student that would be interested in forming a Christian fellowship and I couldn't find any. I looked and went to the chapel, asked around, I was having no luck. And one day I was walking on the upper parade ground, I don't remember why, but I was walking on the upper parade ground towards Jackman on the western side and I saw a cadet coming toward me and the Holy Spirit said to me, "You see that cadet? He's the one I want you to talk to about starting a Christian fellowship." And of course my reaction, my immediate reaction, was yeah, sure. I'm so concerned about this that I just created that thought in my mind, and I said I'm not going to pay any attention to it. But the closer I got to this cadet, we were walking towards one another, the more I felt the Holy Spirit saying, "Do it, do it," and it got to the point where I knew that if I hadn't done it I would be in disobedience to God. I would be disobeying the Holy Spirit and so I stopped him. I said, "Young man, you probably are not going to understand what I'm about to tell you and you're going to think I'm nuts, but the Holy Spirit just told me that I'm supposed to talk to you about starting a Christian fellowship at Norwich," at which point he stopped, I mean, he was stopped. He kind of went, "You're kidding me," and kind of fell back, took a step back, and he said, "As I was coming towards you, the Holy Spirit was telling me that I've got to talk to you about starting a Christian fellowship at Norwich." So, that started the Norwich Christian Fellowship. The cadet's name was John Pitrowiski and we started a fellowship that was in 1982, and that must have been -- I'm gathering, I'm thinking it might have been in April, I didn't put the date down. And so that was still in the days when I think Norwich went further beyond May. I think they went to late May or beginning of June, and so it wasn't very long but he had a couple of friends from classes beneath him, Joe Saltsman being one of them, who wanted to be part of this. And so it continued from that year on. And so last year we celebrated our 30 th year together and it's been a great trip helping Norwich students who are inclined to follow the Lord and find out about Officers Christian Fellowship, et cetera. So John Pitrowski, I lost track of him because he was a senior and he graduated a month or two after we formed the fellowship. And I had assumed that I must have done this in the fall of '83 because, you know, I had to have had a longer year. I had almost a year with him before he left that was my assumption. So I went through all of the year books from '80 -- let's see, '82, it would be '83 on. I couldn't find his name so I -- you know, did I somehow get his name wrong? But I asked Joe Saltsman and he says, "Yeah, I remember John." So I knew I had it right and one day -- actually, about a year before our 30th, it all of a sudden dawned on me. I said, "Do you know what? Is it possible that he was in the class of '82?" So I got out the '82 yearbook and sure enough there he was. Come to find out he goes to a church in Waterbury very close to the church I go to.19 JP: You're kidding. CP: He's been around all of this time. JP: Oh, no kidding. CP: So, on the 30th, which was his 30th reunion of course, we got together and had a big celebration. JP: That's wonderful. Do you have time for STEM? CP: Sure, sure. What happened is as I -- when I was in the eighth grade at Northfield I entered the state science fair with my shell collection. Now, in this day and age you couldn't do that and that's not really important to understand, but one of the things that I had really gotten involved with as a kid, and why I was considering marine biology, is I loved shells. I loved the animals that made shells and I loved shells themselves because I'm kind of artistic and I kind of like art stuff as well. And shells are very beautiful, they're geometric, they're colorful, they're wonderful things. So I was naturally attracted to them. So I entered that in eighth grade, won first place in the state science and math fair, and then again in my senior year I did the same thing, only I did some research and did some dissections and had some studies that I had done. Again, not the kind of stuff that we now do in the science fairs, but at the time it was. And again I won first place. So I was kind of sold on science fairs. So from that time on I offered to judge in science fairs. So at the University of Illinois, in Utah I judged, in Maryland I judged, I think, and I'm not 100 percent sure whether I did or not, but I know at the University of Illinois I did and in Utah I did. In Utah, because I was coming in from Dugway Proving Ground I was coming in as an Army judge and it was part of my assignment, my military points to do this as a military judge. So I did it for a year or two and one of the guys that I was doing it with had been working with the Army Research Office and their program of judging the International Science and Engineering Fair. So he'd been part of the Army judges for them. And he said, "I'm going to have to get out of this. Would you like to take my place?" So I said, "Well, yeah." So that year the international fair was in San Antonio and I went there and became a member of the Army judging team, generally about 30 judges every year from the Army would judge the International Science and Engineering Fair and give wonderful prizes. We sent students to the Plum Blossom Festival in Japan or the Fortnight in England, in London. You know, when the Army judges came around the students took notice. So it was a great assignment and a great opportunity and they treat the judges really well. Afterwards they have a big shindig for them with lots of cheese and lots of hors d'oeuvres and lots of wine and stuff, and I said, boy, this is a deal! So I became sold on that and did for the next 25 years served in that capacity almost every year. A couple years I didn't make it and in the last five I was the Chief Army Judge in charge in all of those 30 judges and also got some other assignments related to that. I became the Army judge for the National Junior Science and Humanities Symposium, which is a similar kind of thing done at about the same time of year, but rather than having a poster session, which is what the International Science and Engineering Fair poster presentation judges. The National Junior Science and 20 Humanities Symposium has a platform presentation. So it's a different -- you can, you know, sometimes the same projects can be in both but there are different ways of presenting the information. So, that convinced me that, I mean, I was already convinced, but that certainly drove the nail home that I was very much still interested in STEM and then I came to Norwich and of course the science fair was being held here and so I immediately became a judge in the science fair and recognized that Vermont State Science and Math Fair was not, it was one of the two or three states not involved in ISEF, and said, you know, I've got to get it involved but I just do not have the time to teach and to do the Vermont State Science and Math Fair component that would get us involved with ISEF. But I made a pledge that I would, to myself, I guess, that once I retired from the military in 2003 because that was when I turned 60, that I would make an effort to get us involved with ISEF. And at that point I had been working with Mary Hoppe and, oh, come on, I'm drawing a blank here. We'll have to get that back up. What's her name? [Martha McBride] Anyway, who had been the two directors, working with them to kind of be an understudy. And so the next year I said I'm going to continue this process as an understudy and I'm going to link us up with ISEF. Now, the main thing about ISEF is you send, at that time, one winner on to international -- from your state fair, on to the International Science and Engineering Fair to compete there, but that requires money and of course the science fair had no money. I mean, it had very little money that they were -- the major initiative that I saw I had to do with come up with a way of getting money and that has become a really time consuming operation. We raise in terms of actual awards and prizes and trip money, we raise about $25,000 a year now and it takes a lot of time to do that even though I have -- almost all of that is coming from established partners, as we call them, because every year you have to renew it, you have to send out emails, you have to send out letters, you have to follow up on them. Some of them follow up themselves, some of them you have to follow up on. You have to record all of this so you know what you did because we have over 120 partners. It's trying to keep all of them straight. You know, what conversation you had with which one three weeks ago is just, you know, you've got to keep accurate records of that. So it's a very time consuming process. But we are really making progress, we are making headway. We are getting more and more students involved in science fair projects and of course the problem with our country -- one of the problems with our country today -- is that many of our students look at Science Technology Engineering and Math, STEM, as being over their heads, over their ability, and we want to make sure that students understand that in many cases that's not the case. It's that they haven't had the opportunities to get excited by it. For example, when I was in the science fair as a senior, that was during the space race and I remember going from the state science fair to the New England science fair and that was during the New England science fair was the -- we heard over the speakers an announcement that the US had successfully sent our first astronaut into orbit. And so those were exciting times and those are the kinds of things that get people's kids' imagination going. Well, we needed something like that because let's face it, if we're going to retain our position as strategically as number one in the world, we have got to have a good Science Technology Engineering, and Math. I had recognized, having been travelling a few other places in the world that the US, high school STEM scores were very woefully low and yet, here we are number one in the world. How can that be? Well, there's a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is, what I had discovered was happening at Norwich, is that between 21 high school and graduating from college the role of the university in this country is to push our kids. It's really important that we push our kids and make them learn the stuff that other kids were learning in high school elsewhere around the world. And, for example, in Japan they're pushed hard, they do well in high school and they score well, but my oldest son, English as a second language teacher in Japan, so we went over to visit him and it turns out that their college over there is almost a lark. And so we can catch up with them and we do catch up with them and we pass them. Certainly other reasons for this is we get a lot of influx from the best of the foreign countries as well, too. I'm not trying to downplay that. But it became obvious to me that we really needed to do something positive and we need to do something positive to encourage our young kids to discover that science, technology, engineering, and math are wonderful and they're exciting and they're full of all kinds of challenges and opportunities and experiences that you're not going to get any other way and I think we're beginning to get that. JP: That's wonderful. You have done so much and you have been -- CP: I've been blessed. I haven't really tried to do this or do that. It's just that things have fallen in my path and I think because of Norwich I don't hesitate, I don't pull back from taking advantage of them, but I really have been blessed with lots of opportunities, lots of fun stuff. JP: You have done a lot of really amazing things. The Pinkham Pearson Index alone, notwithstanding the other stuff. Do you have any relatives at Norwich besides your dad? CP: My oldest brother, the one who said that I should stay in the military, in the reserves, David, who lives in Montpelier, he's still around. He's 87 I think. He was in the Second World War and after the war he came to Norwich for two years in engineering. He actually showed me a paper he wrote on nuclear power (laughs) that at the time of the Second World War was still a concept, and then he transferred to Cornell to finish his degree in engineering. So he's part of Norwich. I have two of my three sons attended Norwich and youngest, well, the middle son went to Vermont, VC, Vermont College, when it was part of Norwich and my youngest son came here and majored in psychology and actually has gotten a masters from Norwich in the masters degree, online degree program in criminal justice management or administration. JP: What's his name? CP: Kristian Pinkham. JP: Kristian Pinkham. Amazing. The Pinkhams at Norwich. CP: And the middle one is Kreig Pinkham. JP: With a C or K?22 CP: K. All my three sons are with K's. Kevin is my oldest. He's an English professor carrying on the family tradition of teaching down at Nyack College in New York, and Kreig is the director of the Washington County Youth Service Bureau, which is really responsible for homeless and run away youth in the state of Vermont. And my youngest son is a DEA agent in El Paso, Texas. JP: Wow, that's amazing! Gosh, I want to ask you a little bit about what advice would you give a rook today about how to survive and thrive the way that you did? CP: Well, the first thing is, again, remember -- and I still tell them this -- the two things that I think are important. One is that nothing lasts forever and so you can get through the rook school, the rook experience. If you keep this in mind it will keep you sane. And secondly, that if you allow it to, Norwich will push you and will help you to develop as an individual, but you've got to go along with the flow. You can't resist the flow. You've got to take advantage of the opportunities that it provides. I think that's really important. And of course, obviously, the students that I come into contact with through Norwich Christian Fellowship, I say to continue to develop your spiritual understanding, your spiritual walk, your spiritual self. And as a teacher I think I made it clear in my courses. On the first day of course I said, first day of class I said, "You've got to understand that I am a Christian and my worldview is formed by that -- is informed by that. I will not mention anymore about it in class. You will hear an awful lot about evolution in class because I'm an evolutionary biologist and if you feel that there is a problem between the two, I'm more than happy to talk with you about how that problem is not real, but that's got to be done outside of class." And so I made it clear in all of my classes that that was something that I -- that they needed to know about me in order to be fair and open. JP: Wow. How do you define leadership or have you already, do you think? CP: Well, to be honest with you, I've not given a whole lot of thought to what leadership really is, but on the spot I would have to say that leadership is a willingness to lead and a willingness to -- openness to see opportunities and to think creatively about these opportunities and how you might use them. And that's a good question because it brings up another story that I think I would like to relate to. And that is the story of the Russian scientist. Shortly after I left Edgewood as my individual mobilization designee assignment, I was assigned back to Edgewood from Dugway. And the two weeks that I was at Edgewood, my boss had -- because he was a North American peregrine falcon banding program coordinator, had gone to Russia, not during that two weeks, but he had earlier gone to Russia and met with and formed a working relationship with his Russian corresponding -- his Russian equivalent, and he and another Russian scientist were scheduled to come to the US during this two weeks that I was going to be assigned to Edgewood Arsenal, to Scott's group. And so this was during the Cold War, but there was some efforts at detent and this being something where there was no weapon system involved or anything like that. It was something as regarded by the government as being worthwhile. So I was invited by Scott to help him get his -- he had just bought a dilapidated Southern mansion in Maryland to get it up kind of a little bit in shape for this 23 meeting. And so I helped him do it and the Russians came and we spent an evening toasting one another and going through bottles after bottles of vodka and, again, my Norwich training came through because I was able to drink two Russians under the table. I'm not overly -- well, yes, I'm proud of that. Let's face it. I don't drink that way anymore, but at the time there was a value to it because when I was at Norwich, I drank like a Norwich student. So, anyway, in the process of that evening, we had a conversation and it was very obvious to me in this conversation that something was wrong, and I'm going to explain what was wrong, but I've got to go back just a little bit. In grad school finished all my courses except for one, population genetics. Population genetics was taught by a newly minted post-doc who had the audacity to expect his students to think. Well, I was a good student because I was fantastic at rote memory, I wish I still were, but at that time I was really good at it. And I wasn't used to a course where they said think and I got a 48 on the final exam and he was good enough to give me a D in the course. I had been essentially a straight A student and that shook me up as you can well imagine. And so I had to ask myself, is thinking a skill that I don't have? Is it something I'll never have or is it a skill that can be acquired? So I started researching thinking, creative thinking, and discovered that it is a skill that can be learned that every human being is born with it but quite often the school system teaches us out of it. In my case it was perhaps the school system, but more important, understand I love my father and he was a wonderful person, but he was an old guard, old school military guy. It was his way or not. So very quickly I learned it didn't do any good to think, it didn't do any good to explain things to him, my side of the story, because there was only his side of the story, so I stopped learning how to think. And so I got to this moment in grad school, this crisis moment, and discovered that I didn't know how to think. From the studies, however, from taking courses and everything I learned how to think and that's why I've got several patents and I've been able to come up with the Pinkham Pearson Index, et cetera. But as I was talking with these Russians, it became very obvious to me they were suffering from the same problem I had been suffering from. It was dangerous for them to think. So the only way they could come up with any thought whatsoever was to just randomly go all over the place and hope that somewhere sooner or later they would stumble across something that was useful and relevant. At that instant I knew we had won the Cold War. It was clear to me that they were fighting an impediment that would just prevent them from doing anything that we had to worry about. And, in fact, that's the way it turned out. JP: That's a nice -- that's a good story, big picture, little picture. Is there anything else that you would like to say? Anything about the Citizen Soldier or -- CP: The Citizen Soldier is a very, very important concept and I'd like to think that I embody it. The reason I feel that way is because I think I embody it, but the soldier doesn't always have to be, obviously, a fighting individual in the sense of a combat. Combat service and combat service support are two very, very important aspects of the military and you can be in combat, and my hat is off to everyone who is in that position, whose life is at risk, willingly puts their life at risk for their country and for their comrades, but there's also a role for those of us who are a little bit less brave, like myself, who want to serve and have a gift to give to the country but can give it in a way where the risk to life 24 and limb is not anywhere nearly as great as it is in the combat arms. So, I think the Citizen Soldier is a very important aspect that we need to be aware of and promote. And I'm proud to say I'm a part of Norwich which founded the concept. And I generally don't miss opportunities when I'm talking with youngsters to point that out to them. JP: Is there anything else you'd like to add? CP: Probably, but I can't think of it right now. I think that's about it. JP: That's about it. Thank you. CP: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for the opportunity, I enjoyed this. This is fun. JP: This has been fascinating and I think it's going to be fascinating for people to hear. I think it's going to be very interesting for people who are interested in the different things you've spoken about and to hear you say them. So thank you. I'm going to hit stop. I need to do a little intro. And we're back with Carl Pinkham. CP: So the parting Norwich story while I was a student has to do with three events that happened my last three days at Norwich. On Friday I was commissioned a second lieutenant in armor. On Saturday I was married to Christine Waite who has been my wife for almost 50 years and on Sunday I graduated. JP: That's a busy -- CP: That's a very busy time. (laughter) JP: That's good. CP: That's it. JP: Thank you. END OF AUDIO FILE

The present study documents a language educator's reflection on two transitions that mirror current curricular changes in undergraduate language programs in the United States. The first chronicles her personal pedagogical transformation from a general-purposes Spanish language professor and her adjustment to teaching as a visiting professor in a Spanish for Specific Purposes (SSP) language-learning environment at the United States Air Force Academy. The second reports the evolution over several decades of the Spanish language program at University of Alabama at Birmingham from a traditional general Spanish-language program to a multipurpose program. The study suggests that SSP and liberal arts values are not mutually exclusive, and it explores what Spanish for General Purposes (SGP) can learn from SSP. Spanish programs that find common ground and hybridize to respond to multiple demands of today's Spanish learners are likely to be the most successful in the future. ; To cite the digital version, add its Reference URL (found by following the link in the header above the digital file). ; A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 88 The Unexpected Spanish for Specific Purposes Professor: A Tale of Two Institutions Sheri Spaine Long United States Air Force Academy University of Alabama at Birmingham Abstract: The present study documents a language educator's reflection on two transitions that mirror current curricular changes in undergraduate language programs in the United States. The first chronicles her personal pedagogical transformation from a general-purposes Spanish language professor and her adjustment to teaching as a visiting professor in a Spanish for Specific Purposes (SSP) language-learning environment at the United States Air Force Academy. The second reports the evolution over several decades of the Spanish language program at University of Alabama at Birmingham from a traditional general Spanish-language program to a multipurpose program. The study suggests that SSP and liberal arts values are not mutually exclusive, and it explores what Spanish for General Purposes (SGP) can learn from SSP. Spanish programs that find common ground and hybridize to respond to multiple demands of today's Spanish learners are likely to be the most successful in the future. Keywords: language learning curriculum, liberal arts, medical Spanish, military language learning, Spanish for General Purposes (SGP), Spanish instruction, Spanish for Specific Purposes (SSP), United States Air Force Academy, University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) Introduction This academic year, I dubbed myself the unexpected Spanish for Specific Purposes (SSP) professor because specialized career-focused instruction became part of my pedagogical repertoire. Working in a SSP language-learning environment has made me take stock of what mainstream language educators can gain from exposure to the philosophy and instructional techniques of languages for specific purposes. I am serving currently as Distinguished Visiting Professor of Spanish at the United States Air Force Academy. I am a permanent Professor of Spanish at the University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB). In this reflective paper, I chronicle two transitions. First, I share observations about my transition from general purposes language instruction to the more focused language-learning setting at the United States Air Force Academy. Language learning at the United States Air Force Academy exemplifies the definition of a Spanish for Specific Purposes (SSP) program because it is dedicated to the goal of educating future Air Force officer-leaders with a global perspective. Secondly, I narrate from an administrative/ administrator's point of view UAB's evolution from a traditional Spanish curriculum to a dual-purpose program that includes a SSP certificate. I conclude that both the United States Air Force Academy and UAB Spanish language programs provide unique insights into the curricular changes and challenges in language teaching that have emerged during the last several decades in higher education. My experiences in these respective undergraduate Spanish programs show that signature language curricula have been and can be developed to serve diverse missions of learners and institutions and that intellectual and practical needs simultaneously helped mold these A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 89 programs. The United States Air Force Academy and UAB Spanish language programs are traditional and nontraditional at the same time. I posit they will resemble our future hybridized Spanish language programs. For purposes of this paper, I understand hybridized to mean multipurpose programs that have SSP components and a liberal arts foundation. The subfield of SSP can be defined as a practice that gives language learners access to the Spanish that they need to accomplish their own academic or occupational goals (Sánchez-López, 2013). It is necessary to locate SSP within the domain of Second Language Acquisition (SLA) in order to recognize that SSP is not a departure from current theory or practices in foreign language education. The counterpoint to SSP is Spanish for General Purposes (SGP). SGP is a broad descriptor for the teaching and learning of Spanish in ways that can be exploratory in nature. It is language teaching and learning that is likely not to have a singular career focus. Along with the concept of language learning for cultural breadth, traditionally SGP has been ensconced within the notion of liberal arts education. After almost 20 years of teaching principally undergraduate SGP at UAB, I relocated to Colorado Springs to experience anew the teaching and learning of Spanish in a different context. The learning environment that I envisioned at the service academy would be focused on the specific Air Force mission within undergraduate higher education. By contrast, I am the product of a liberal arts education that was not singularly focused on a specific career. For the last several decades, I have taught students with a variety of goals, both professional and personal. The teaching and learning environment with which I am the most familiar is rooted in the model of a liberal education that has historically framed SGP programs across the United States over the last 75 years. Goals of the liberal arts education include such attributes as thinking critically, possessing broad analytical skills, learning how to learn, thinking independently, seeing all sides of an issue, communicating clearly (orally and in writing), exercising self-control for the sake of broader loyalties, showing self-assurance in leadership ability, and participating in and enjoying (cross-)cultural experience (Blaich, Bost, Chan, & Lynch, 2010). By reviewing some attributes commonly found in definitions of a liberal arts education, I highlight the cornerstone of numerous undergraduate programs in higher education. My goal is not to produce a comprehensive list of its characteristics. In fact, one finds variations in the definition of the liberal arts education tailored to suit institutional realities and needs. The elements that I emphasize in the present discussion are particular characteristics, such as analytical and critical thinking, leadership development, civic responsibility and cultural breadth, which are especially relevant to how these two Spanish language programs evolved at both the United States Air Force Academy and UAB. Although critical thinking may not be one of the characteristics that spring to mind within military education given the realities of obedience, discipline and hierarchy, critical thinking is an essential characteristic of military officers that must make decisions in complex situations. The teaching/learning of the ability to analyze critically is key in military service academies and in civilian institutions, such as UAB. UAB and arrived at the United States Air Force Academy in summer 2011. Because of the courses that I had been asked to design and teach, I knew that the United States Air Force Academy's curriculum was not about technical instruction as in Spanish for Military Purposes. In fact, my fall courses had mainstream course titles that one might find in any Spanish program: Literature and Film of Spain and Latin American Civilization and Culture. My military supervisors told me that I was invited here to bring a different perspective and pedagogy into the classroom. As my first semester unfolded, I set out to learn from diverse A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 90 pupils and faculty members and to absorb and adapt to the differences before me. The United States Air Force Academy's mission fits neatly on a sign that everyone reads upon entering the military installation: "Developing Leaders of Character." The United States Air Force Academy (2011) is an undergraduate institution, awarding the BS degree as part of its mission to inspire and develop officers with knowledge, character and discipline. Undergraduates are referred to as cadets, and this underscores both the military and academic focus of the learners. After a few weeks at the United States Air Force Academy, I realized that I had landed in a one-of-a-kind educational setting. The institution subscribes to and emphasizes many of the key core values that I associate with a liberal arts education while additionally providing technical training. As Pennington (2012) pointed out in her recent commentary in The Chronicle of Higher Education, we need to acknowledge that preparing for work and pursuing a liberal arts education are not mutually exclusive. Considering liberal arts principles and professional training as polar opposites is a deeply ingrained notion by many individuals in higher education and in society at large. This belief needs to change because of the type of complex preparation that today's students will need to flourish in the future. Below is the complete list of shared outcomes of the Unites States Air Force Academy. Even with a cursory examination, one finds intertwined traditional liberals arts concepts and elements associated with technical education for engineers, scientists and warriors: Shared United States Air Force Academy Outcomes (2011) Commission leaders of character who embody the Air Force core values. . . . . .committed to Societal, Professional, and Individual Responsibilities  Ethical Reasoning and Action  Respect for Human Dignity  Service to the Nation  Lifelong Development and Contributions  Intercultural Competence and Involvement . . .empowered by integrated Intellectual and Warrior Skills  Quantitative and Information Literacy  Oral and Written Communication  Critical Thinking  Decision Making  Stamina  Courage  Discipline  Teamwork . . .grounded in essential Knowledge of the Profession of Arms and the Human & Physical Worlds  Heritage and Application of Air, Space, and Cyberspace Power  National Security and Full Spectrum of Joint and Coalition Warfare A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 91  Civic, Cultural and International Environments  Ethics and the Foundations of Character  Principles of Science and the Scientific Method  Principles of Engineering and the Application of Technology Source: http://www.usafa.edu/df/usafaoutcomes.cfm?catname=Dean%20of%20Faculty Values such as critical thinking, ethics and ethical reasoning, respect for human dignity, lifelong development and contributions, intercultural competence, and oral and written communication are integral to a liberal arts education and are the foundation of cadet education. The first phrase that frames the entire list—"Commission leaders of character who embody the Air Force core values. . ."—is key to my contention that the United States Air Force Academy's type of SSP is the teaching and learning of languages in the broader context of leadership education. The direct relationship between what one associates with well-informed leaders and liberal arts values emphasizes the importance of nurturing future leaders (whether cadets or college students) that are civically and globally astute. Leadership development clearly underpins both liberal arts values and those of the United States Air Force Academy. Like many undergraduate institutions in the United States, Spanish is widely taught at the United States Air Force Academy. According to Diane K. Johnson, an institutional statistician, there are a total of more than 500 cadets (out of a total cadet enrollment of over 4,000) that are in Spanish classes (introductory through advanced) in spring semester 2012. There are also cadets enrolled in 7 other languages that are labeled strategic or enduring. Notably, there is no language major at the United States Air Force Academy. However, there is a Foreign Area Studies major. Also, cadets can declare a minor in a language. There were 327 cadets with minor in languages at the time of this spring semester 2012 snapshot. The specific mission statement of the United States Air Force Academy's Department of Foreign Languages is: "To develop leaders of character with a global perspective through world-class language and culture education." Language and culture are embedded in the concept of the kind of global perspective that a 21st-century leader must possess. From Washington DC to Wall Street, there is agreement that future leaders internationally—both military and civilian—need to be multilingual and culturally adept to be able to navigate and lead in the 21st century (Education for global leadership, 2006). According to Lt. Col. Western (2011), it is imperative that our military comprehend that maintaining world leadership and security requires a broad understanding of other languages, cultures and thought processes. Although the Department of Defense's report (2012) on "Sustaining United States Global Leadership: Priorities for 21st Century Defense" does not directly address language and cultural expertise, many of theses priorities rely on knowledge from military leaders with considerable language and cultural acumen. Historically, the language department has always had a dual purpose that has consisted of SSP focusing on developing future Air Force officers, while providing many elements of a liberal arts education. From the following list, you will see a sampling of the generic course titles. They are not a departure from what one might find at other institutions: Basic Spanish I & Basic Spanish II (Spanish 131–132), Intermediate Spanish A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 92 I & Intermediate Spanish II (Spanish 221–222), Advanced Spanish I & Advanced Spanish II (Spanish 321–322), Civilization and Culture (Spanish 365), Current Events in the Spanish-Speaking World (Spanish 371), Introduction to Peninsular Literature (Spanish 376), Introduction to Latin American Literature (Spanish 377), Advanced Spanish Readings (Spanish 491), and Special Topics (Spanish 495). The course titles do not offer clues as to how these classes might differ from the average civilian college or university classes with similar names. In my experience teaching and/or observing these classes, differences do stand out because language learners at the United States Air Force Academy focus on application of language as a skill combined with cultural and historical knowledge. The cadets also seek intellectual breadth through the analysis of multiple perspectives particularly found in intermediate- to upper-level Spanish language classes. In the first six months in residence at the United States Air Force Academy, I observed that cadets are more intellectually broad than I assumed at the outset. Cadets read about literature and culture, analyzed film, and even wrote poetry in Spanish with gusto. They do perform in the classroom with a defined career in mind. The focus on the military profession and leadership changes the daily routine in the language classroom. By emphasizing deliberate leadership and language teaching and/or learning opportunities, crosspollination enhances the classroom exper-ience and improves institutional learning outcomes. Form cannot be divorced from function in language learning, so the synthesis of leadership development and language/cultural learning occurs. Recent studies from interdisciplinary research with the neurosciences and education show that fusion between disciplines can provide effective pathways to learning (Coyle, Hood, & Marsh, 2010). Teaching Spanish at the United States Air Force Academy altered my preparations and delivery. Because of SSP, I adapted to differences that are administrative, operational, pedagogical, experiential and conceptual. First, I experienced the surface-level administrative transformations from SGP to the special brand of SSP at this institution. I learned about:  Classroom rituals that include military protocols, such as calling the class to attention in Spanish, inspecting students' regulation dress and upholding other classroom standards in the target language;  References to Air Force traditions and military rank in the target language;  And, lock down, active shooter and natural disaster drills that might happen during class time in the target language. Additionally, there were different details in course design that reshaped my pedagogical filter. During an examination of all Spanish language course syllabi at the United States Air Force Academy, I noticed that the communities standard from the 5Cs in the Standards for Foreign Language Learning (1999) is often replaced with a different C that stands for Careers. The focus on the professional use of Spanish is starkly emphasized through this substitution. On an operational level in the classroom, staying abreast of current events in the Spanish-speaking world and being able to interpret them—such as changes in government officials, political and economic transitions in the target culture—take on greater importance while teaching at the United States Air Force Academy. For example, when A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 93 learners know that they might be assigned to carry out tasks in any Latin American country in the future, the learners understandably pay more attention to geographical details, how economic conditions impact political situations, how longstanding historical realities affect the current mood, and so on. The language-learning environment carries with it a cachet of practical information, and it also supplies complex situations and problem-solving scenarios on which future Air Force decision makers can cut their teeth. Language practice includes creating a number of hypothetical SSP situations in which cadets participate in order to foreshadow their leadership roles, such as role-play opportunities that are relevant to Air Force operations. For example, cadets might be asked what they would do and say as a United States Air Attaché or an intelligence officer stationed in Latin America. On the conceptual level, I am currently organizing and creating a seminar that is titled War in the Arts, Literature and Film in Spain and Latin America. It is a themed-humanities seminar that offers a rich lexical environment and an opportunity to focus on the profession of war, ethics, conflict and peacekeeping in the context of film, art and print texts of the Spanish-speaking world. Considering, for example, the representation of the warrior in a literary work provides an opportunity to discuss ethics and strategies and to analyze the representation of leaders across cultures. At the United States Air Force Academy, I have participated in preparing cadets to go on semester-long exchanges to foreign military academies. Some of this is done through wayside teaching at our Spanish conversation table, emphasizing the type of current and relevant social, linguistic, and cultural information that a cadet might need to function abroad in a variety of contexts and represent the United States. One way to prepare for going abroad has been to encourage and mentor cadets to volunteer for selection to host visiting military dignitaries, such as ranking delegations from the Colombian and Mexican Air Force. To prepare cadets, instructors share with them tips about how to interact appropriately and to display leadership through social intelligence and knowledge of protocol in the target language and culture. As a follow up, debriefing after these events is essential to discuss perceptions and observations and to develop cross-cultural competence. Much like teaching and interacting with SGP students, there are immediate needs, and then, there is the important long-range goal of encouraging life-long learning in Spanish. In the context of the United States Air Force, there are programs that make this objective more concrete than what is generally experienced by students in civilian colleges and universities. To take advantage of what the Air Force has to offer, I have also learned about LEAP (Language Enabled Airman Program), which provides for structured life-long language learning for specific purposes in the Air Force. According to the Air Force Culture and Language Center ("Air force culture," 2012), LEAP is designed to sustain, enhance and utilize the existing language skills and talents of Airmen in the program. The stated goal of LEAP is to develop a core group of Airmen across specialties and careers possessing the capability to communicate in one or more foreign languages. To become a participant in LEAP, Airmen must already possess moderate to high levels of proficiency in a foreign language. Individuals that apply and are accepted into the LEAP program receive regular training both face to face and online in the target language as well as have immersion opportunities at intervals during their careers. Working to encourage and help cadets apply for LEAP is another SSP goal at the United States Air Force. A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 94 These are an overview of my unexpected SSP experiences at the Air Force Academy. My transformation from SGP to SSP started with learning and applying new vocabulary that focuses on cadets' professional needs. Later, I began to think of my learners as future leaders that will need to perform and apply knowledge to make judgments about the Spanish-speaking individuals and groups. This motivated me to reorganize courses and reconceive of them with a keener eye toward performance and to explore ways to get cadets to think beyond their immediate milieu. With the overlay of leadership development and military culture, this teaching experience has driven me to operate in a more interdisciplinary fashion than before. I experienced first hand a teaching and learning climate that offers a unique hybrid of liberal arts and technical education in a military context. Perhaps the best lesson that SSP teaches is to constantly question the relevance of what you are doing in the classroom: to whom is it relevant and for what purpose? Within the Department of Foreign Languages at the United States Air Force Academy, the SSP focus on career preparation in language instruction and the liberal arts connection with leadership evolved simultaneously. This dual focus of the curriculum contrasts the reality in most civilian language departments where there was one general focus and departments are being (or have been retrofitted) to include new curricula and/or tracks. Many civilian language departments are currently transitioning from SGP programs and integrating more SSP language options. In the late 1980s and on into the 1990s, Spanish for Business and Medical Spanish courses appeared. The integration of professional courses happened in response to societal needs (Doyle, 2010). The Department of Foreign Languages at the United States Air Force Academy offers a rare, fully integrated model of the curricular common ground of career-focused language learning with an underpinning of liberal arts breadth. Conversely, civilian language programs have transitioned to dual-purpose or multipurpose programs for different reasons. In many cases, motives for transitioning programs have been to maintain relevance and enrollments. The latter was clearly the case with the Spanish language program at UAB in the 1990s. This two-fold reality raises the palpable issue of how best to organize these dual-purpose programs from both a curricular and an administrative point of view. Undergraduate language departments and programs have to meet the needs of both their general and specific constituencies. There is a general consensus in the language discipline that multiple paths to the language major, as advocated by the Modern Language Association in the report "Foreign Languages and Higher Education: New Structures for a Changed World" (2007), will be a necessity for the future survival of undergraduate language programs. With curricular reform underway, how do traditional language programs best transition from general purposes programs to hybridized programs that also house languages for specific purposes? Another obvious driver of dual-purpose Spanish language programs is the limited support for language teaching and learning. As programs transform, we need to be mindful of the realities that face most undergraduate language programs: 1) limited financial resources to support language programs, 2) staffing limitations because of faculty back-ground and adaptability, 3) reward systems that favor faculty members who work in the more established subdisciplines in the language field, and 4) multifoci and/or shifting interests of undergraduate students. Because of these conditions, exploring ways that resources can be shared intentionally and constructively will be essential to benefit general A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 95 and specific purposes language programs at the same time. The UAB Spanish language program learned to share resources and evolved into a multipurpose program. The UAB Spanish language program transitioned from SGP to include SSP gradually over several decades. This transformation aligns the department with the institution's vision and mission, which is outlined below: The UAB Vision UAB's vision is to be an internationally renowned research university—a first choice for education and health care. The UAB Mission UAB's mission is to be a research university and academic health center that dis- covers, teaches and applies knowledge for the intellectual, cultural, social and eco- nomic benefit of Birmingham, the state and beyond. Source: http://www.uab.edu/plan/ Reflecting the mission and vision at UAB, these statements clearly present the dual role of the institution: it is both medical and educational. When I joined the faculty 20 years ago, we spoke of the medical side and the academic side of campus in a way that implied a scant relationship between the two. Therefore, the undergraduate curriculum in the language department in the early years of my appointment had no relationship with the health sciences. This separation slowly eroded over the years. When I was hired in 1992, the curriculum for the UAB undergraduate language major would best be described as traditional: language and literature. UAB students studied languages for a variety of reasons, ranging from enrichment to the fulfillment of the compulsory language requirement. We had a multiquarter language requirement that was rescinded in the mid-1990s as a result of the politics between the state's community colleges and the universities. Currently, UAB has no foreign language requirement. Almost 650 students were enrolled in Spanish in spring 2012 out of an undergraduate population of close to 12,000 students ("UAB student profile," 2011). Ironically, the lack of a language requirement in the undergraduate curriculum set the department on a path toward popularizing SSP. At that time, the UAB Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures began to turn its attention to providing courses that the students demanded. As a result in the mid-1990s, UAB offered its first medical Spanish classes for undergraduate students. From that time on, I became interested increasingly in SSP for reasons that had to do with the institution's human capital both faculty and student. Also from 2002–2009, I served as chairperson of the UAB Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures. I took an administrator's interest in growing and integrating a SSP program into the existing general Spanish program. The medical Spanish courses were a good match for the interests of our student body. Approximately 40% of the freshmen that enroll at UAB declare that they are on the premedicine track. Many students are attracted to our campus because UAB houses an internationally known School of Medicine, although many freshmen abandon the premedicine track for other health-related fields. A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 96 Student interest grew in professionally focused language courses and key faculty members invested in SSP as well. In 2001, our first applied linguist in Spanish was hired in the language department. She shared her vision of starting a SSP program by offering a few courses to appeal to pre-professionals. She became the director of the nascent SSP program. Over the years, the SSP program became so popular that it evolved into a more defined and elaborate SSP certificate program ("UAB Spanish for specific purposes program," 2012) that had 62 students enrolled in the program in spring 2012. It was the first undergraduate certificate program on the UAB campus. As the program grew, the SSP Director was successful in convincing existing junior faculty to take professional development seminars in SSP and develop additional SSP courses, such as Intermediate Spanish for the Professions, Advanced Business Spanish and Advanced Spanish for Health Professionals. In 2007, we hired a Spanish instructor to develop and expand the medical Spanish courses in the undergraduate curriculum under the umbrella of SSP. She began to collaborate with the Schools of Nursing, Medicine, and Dentistry to provide short courses to their graduate students. Over time, signs of curricular integration increased between the medical and academic sides of campus. Also, there was a confluence of external events in the state of Alabama and internal events on the UAB campus that occurred in the late 1990s and the first decade of the 21st century that promoted the success of the SSP program. Prior to the 2007 recession, a rapidly growing Spanish-speaking population in Alabama had health professionals in a reactive mode because they were not prepared to handle patients that spoke limited English ("Demographic profile of Hispanics in Alabama," 2012). In 2005, UAB hosted campus-wide events around its first freshmen discussion book The Spirit Catches you and you Fall Down: A Hmong Child, her American Doctors and the Collision of two Cultures by Ann Fadiman (1997). The book was widely read across campus, especially in the School of Medicine. Fadiman's volume chronicled Hmong (not Spanish) speakers. Nevertheless, the book captured the timely problem of the critical need for communication with the foreign born in the health professions. From that year on, the importance of cross-cultural communication became part of the UAB campus dialogue. Also around this time, UAB's prominent, grant-funded Minority Health and Research Center unofficially broadened its definition of minority to include Latinos. Meanwhile, within the UAB Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures we were able to offer our first scholarship award for a Spanish major on the premedicine track in 2003. Beginning in 2003, I recall anecdotally receiving periodic inquiries from ranking individuals in the School of Medicine that wanted to collaborate. Typically, they requested the assistance of Spanish-speaking faculty with informed-consent forms. There were repeated requests for help with interpretation until the UAB clinics developed protocols to deal with Spanish-language only patients. In January 2010, we piloted a short course in Spanish (Davidson & Long, 2012) that was offered as part of the medical school elective curriculum. In 2002, the staff of the language department informally observed a trend in the increase of undergraduate students who declared a double major in Spanish and Biology/Chemistry. I procured a modest donation from a local physician for the aforementioned scholarship. All of these events fueled the popularity of the UAB SSP program and clearly defined the need for it. The current SSP program and certificate houses a number of preprofessional courses that are not limited exclusively to SSP students. The full program description can A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 97 be viewed at http://www.uab.edu/languages/languages-programs/ssp. The number of general versus pre-professional students varies from course to course, but courses such as Spanish Translation and Interpretation tend to enroll students from both cohorts, whereas Spanish for the Health Professionals enrolls few general-purposes students. Of course, the faculty members have noticed over time that our student clientele had slowly changed: two very different types of students were sitting in the same classroom. Professionally focused Spanish students and general Spanish students enrolled in the some of the same courses. This presented new pedagogical challenges for our faculty members and raised the issue: how does one meet the needs of both groups (SSP and SGP) in the context of our institution's student body? To date, this matter has not been systematically dealt with in the UAB Spanish Division. Individual professors have developed strategies, like individualizing projects, and yet, other faculty members teach to one group to the exclusion of the other. The curricular changes discussed by the Modern Language Association have come about in many language departments, and they have been welcomed by some faculty members but not by all. Embracing the notion that the traditional liberal arts language learner can cohabitate with the interdisciplinary and/or career-focused language learner (as demonstrated at the United States Air Force Academy) is key. Highlighting the philo-sophical common ground rooted in a liberal arts education is what may be perceived by some individuals as strictly technical training may help ease the transition. The next phase will be to articulate relevant practices for educators and administrators, as well as shared values and outcomes, and to provide models that show transitional programs how to achieve what I would like to call 'constructive hybridity.' I define constructive hybridity as a positive and collective effort to sort out and integrate the best of traditional Spanish language programs with different SSP practices evidencing more focused professional goals. The next task is to define the 'shared canon' between the various tracks in any given Spanish program. Obviously, this is not a one-size-fits-all charge due to different student, societal and institutional needs, but there is foundational work to be done in order to come up with more consensuses. Given my administrative experiences as a faculty member at UAB and my teaching experience at the United States Air Force Academy, I have come to realize that both general and specific missions in Spanish-language learning are not mutually exclusive. In June 2011, I marched off to Colorado to teach and to learn. I have learned that there is a place for time-tested liberal arts values within SSP programs and that hybridized programs (liberal arts and SSP) can be successful and beneficial to the learner. As suggested by the United States Air Force Academy and UAB programs, future programs in Spanish-language instruction will need to focus on our common ground to serve multiple purposes. Thus, I return to the concept that I mentioned at the outset: it is time to think hybrid. Our future undergraduate language programs will have multiple tracks/purposes. This hybridization can be as positive and enriching for both faculty members and language learners as it has been for me during this phase of my career as a language educator. Returning to my own narrative as a committed, career Spanish professor, I have no doubt that, in the future, my newfound SSP instructional acumen and orientation will inform my future general purposes classes and improve them. A TALE OF TWO INSTITUTIONS Scholarship and Teaching on Languages for Specific Purposes (2013) 98 Disclaimer The views expressed in this paper are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the United States Air Force Academy, the United States Air Force, The Depart-ment of Defense or the United States Government. References Air force culture and language center. (2012, May). Retrieved from http://www.culture.af.mil/leap/index.aspx Blaich, C., Bost, A., Chan, E., & Lynch, R. (2010). Defining liberal arts education. Retrieved from http://www.liberalarts.wabash.edu/storage Coyle, D., Hood, P., & Marsh, D. (2010). Content and language integrated learning (p. 25). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Davidson, L., & Long, S. S. (2012). Medical Spanish for US medical students: A pilot case study. Dimension, 1–13. Retrieved from http://scolt.webnode.com/ Demographic profile of Hispanics in Alabama. (2012). Retrieved from http://www.pewhispanic.org/states/state/al/ Doyle, M. S. (2010). A responsive, integrative Spanish curriculum at UNC Charlotte. Hispania, 93(1), 80–84. Education for global leadership: The importance of international studies and foreign language education for US economic and national security. (2006). Washington, DC: Committee for Economic Development. Fadiman, A. (1997). The spirit catches you and you fall down: A Hmong child, her American doctors, and the collision of two cultures. NY: Farrar, Straus and Giroux. Foreign languages and higher education: new structures for a changed world. (2007) MLA ad hoc committee on foreign languages. Profession published by the Modern Language Association, 2007 (May), 1–11. Pennington, H. (2012, April 13). For student success, stop debating and start improving. The Chronicle of Higher Education, pp. A33–A34. Sánchez-López, L. (2013). Spanish for specific purposes. In C. Chapelle (Ed.), The Encyclopedia of Applied Linguistics. Oxford, UK: Wiley-Blackwell. Standards for foreign language learning in the 21st century. (1999) Lawrence, KS: National Standards in Foreign Language Education Project, Allen Press. Sustaining US global leadership: Priorities for 21st century defense. (2012) Washington DC: Department of Defense. UAB Spanish for specific purposes program. (2012). Retrieved from http://www.uab.edu/languages/ssp UAB Student profile. (2011). Retrieved from http://www.uab.edu/home/about/student-profile-accomplishments United States Air Force Academy curriculum handbook 2011–2012. (2011). USAF Academy, CO: Academy Board. Western, D. J. (2011). How to say 'national security' in 1,100 languages. Air & Space Power Journal, 48–61. Retrieved from http://www.airpower.au.af.mil

Bernice C. Stromberg ; The Weber and Davis County Communities Oral History Collection include interviews of citizens from several different walks of life. These interviews were conducted by Stewart Library personnel, WeberState University faculty and students, and other members of the community. The histories cover various topics and chronicle the personal everyday life experiences and other recollections regarding the history of the Weber and Davis County areas. ; 40p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 video disc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Bernice C. Stromberg Interviewed By Rebecca Ory Hernandez 3 October 2012 24 October 2012 i ii Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Bernice C. Stromberg Interviewed by Rebecca Ory Hernandez 3 October 2012 24 October 2012 Copyright © 2013 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in the University Archives, which also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber and Davis County Communities Oral History Collection include interviews of citizens from several different walks of life. These interviews were conducted by Stewart Library personnel, Weber State University faculty and students, and other members of the community. The histories cover various topics and chronicle the personal everyday life experiences and other recollections regarding the history of the Weber and Davis County areas. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Stromberg, Bernice C., an oral history by Rebecca Ory Hernandez, 3 and 24 October 2012, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Bernice Stromberg October 24, 2012 1 Abstract: Bernice sat down with Rebecca Ory Hernandez in October of 2012 to share stories of growing up and moving several times with her family in Southern Utah. Her father was a well-respected music teacher. Bernice is the widow of Mr. C. William "Bill" Stromberg of Ogden, UT, who served on the founding Board of the Stewart Education Foundation. During this time, Bernice became very good friends with Elizabeth Stewart. Bernice is also a very good friend of former Weber State University President, F. Ann Milner. Since Bill's passing in 2010, Bernice has remained a regular attendee of many WSU events, especially football games. The Stromberg Complex is named in Bernice and Bill's honor. ROH: Today is Wednesday, October 3, 2012. We are in the home of Bernice Stromberg in Ogden, Utah. I am Rebecca Ory Hernandez with Weber State University and the Stewart Library. Why don't you tell me when and where you were born? BS: I was born in Kanab, in Kane County Utah, on January 12, 1927. My dad taught music in the high school down there. The day I was born, my dad and the doctor were going to go to a basketball game, but when dad got home from teaching, there was the doctor waiting for him. My mother was on her knees scrubbing her floor. Dad said, "We're going to the ball game." The doctor said, "Oh no, we're not. I've turned our tickets in. We're going to have a baby around here if I can get you to get your wife into bed." So Dad did. My dad had arranged for the neighbor to take the three older girls just to get them out of the way. I was the youngest in the family. He told my sisters as he dropped them off, "Now when you get home you're going to have a really nice 2 surprise. So you be good and when I get home I'm going to show you your surprise." When the girls came home, after I was born, they all cried and said, "I thought it was going to be a puppy or candy or ice cream or something. Not just a baby." I have always said, "It's good that I didn't know it then because I would have had my feelings hurt." ROH: How much distance is there between you and your sisters age-wise? BS: The one just older than me is Arlene and she is three years and three months. My oldest sister, Rachael, was seven years older. My next oldest sister was Lois and she was about five years older. ROH: So there were four girls total in your family? SB: Four girls, no brothers. When I got married, I didn't know boys teased like they do and I had a hard time dealing with some of these things that came up in our marriage because I didn't know how to respond. It was a wonderful life with a house full of girls. ROH: What was your maiden name? BS: Christensen. We did not live in Kanab terribly long because as happens in school nowadays and all time, what's the first thing they cut from schools? This was during the depression. ROH: Art and music? BS: Art, music and all of those things. They cut out the music department. Dad played the violin. He lost his job and couldn't get a job anywhere. Later in life, he 3 was in the first Utah Symphony Orchestra as the first violinist. It was a WPA Project. Reginald Beal was his director and Dad loved the Orchestra. It was a great time of his life. ROH: Where were your parents from? BS: They were from Moroni, Utah in Sanpete County. My ancestors came from Denmark. Most of the Scandinavian people settled in that part of Utah. That's where my parents were both born. I don't remember what year they came over from Denmark, but most of the family came. Mother and Dad went to high school there, from kindergarten to High School. They said it was a fun town. My sisters and I loved to go down there to visit. Grandma Christensen would let us go to the chicken coop and each gather one egg. We would take them to the grocery store and spend them or a bag of candy of our choice. Moroni is just East of Nephi, in the valley there. Dad finally bought a Model A Ford. It had no heater and no air conditioning. It took four hours in that Model A to go down Moroni to visit and we would come home the same night. We weren't real happy going down just because of the long ride. Mother would heat rocks or bricks in the oven and get blankets and coats to keep us warm and we four girls would sit across the back seat. We kept warm but we didn't like to stay so cooped up for that long. ROH: Did your mom work in the home or outside of the home as well? BS: She did work outside of the home. We were very poor after the Depression and we had no money. Many times we didn't know where the next meal was coming 4 from. I ate more bread and milk during that time than I would ever like to say because sometimes that's all we had. Mother would make bread because she had flour but we all liked it fixed differently. I liked mine hot with salt on it. My dad liked it cold with sugar on it. The rest of them just had their own way of having it too. It kept us alive and we got along just fine. My mother, bless her heart, made such a pleasant home. In the summertime for every meal, no matter what we had to eat, there was always a bouquet of flowers and a tablecloth on the table. She loved flowers and she grew a lot of them. We moved a lot during my life. I was teased quite often from my friends because of this. They'll say, "Name a town, Bernice lived there." ROH: Tell me some of the places you moved to that you can remember. BS: We moved to Richfield when we left Kanab. Dad did a number of jobs there to feed us. He sold the Deseret Newspaper and did anything he could find for work. I was only three when I lived there, but this time is the clearest part of my memory. I don't know how mother let us do some of the things we did. We had an irrigation ditch in front of our house and we had a wide canal in the back of the barn a little ways. The girls would go down to the canal and pick Potawatomi Plums to make jam. (They were named after some of the Indians in Southern Utah. When Bill and I moved to our home in Ogden, I found a tree just like them in my backyard. I said, "My word where did that come from up here?" They were really good). One day, I just thought, "I'm going to go with the girls down to the canal". We all were down there and I decided I wanted to go home, so I left by myself and decided to take a short cut. The field next to where we lived was all in 5 clover that was in blossom. I thought, "I'll just run fast through that field." By the time I got home I had literally hundreds of bee stings on my ankles and my feet. My feet were swollen and they really hurt. I did learn to never go through that part of the backyard again. We had a lot of fun experiences there and some not so fun ones. We had two dogs. One was a black and white spotted bird dog. The other was a curly haired white dog. I was so afraid of that white dog, because she would get hold of my coat in the cold weather and she would just shake her head as hard as she could and drag me all over the yard. I couldn't get away from her. The big dog was my companion for my nap. We would lie behind the coal stove and he'd lay his arm over my shoulder and we'd have a nice nap together. ROH: That's very sweet. BS: It was. I really slept so good back then. I remember that my mother made handmade soap. You have to use ashes for that, so she'd burn her trash out in our backyard and get the ashes from there. ROH: Did you have any other family around? BS: No. Before I was born there were places they lived that had some around. They lived in Bingham and they had an experience up there. Mother had Lois (my sister) sleeping in her crib in front of the window of the bedroom on the back side of the house. A huge rock dislodged and rolled down the mountain, through the window and into Lois' crib. My mother just knew she was gone, but she was up in 6 the corner of the crib and the big rock went in the rest of the bed. Lois was not touched at all. We felt that was a great miracle. We moved to Salt Lake from there when I was in kindergarten. The only thing I remember about kindergarten was that we had to take naps. We had to bring a blanket and a pillow. I would lay mine down and this little boy in my class named Danny would wait until I lay down and he'd bring his blanket and lie down right next to me. It irritated me to no end. I would get up and move somewhere else and he would too. He was determined to take his nap next to me. That's all I remember about kindergarten. ROH: You don't remember learning to read and write, just remember that. BS: We didn't learn to read and write until the first grade. ROH: Oh you didn't? BS: Kindergarten was more of a social learning and how to share with the other children. It was learning how to get along with other children and it was a playtime. The teacher would read stories to us, but we didn't have reading or writing. We'd color and things like that, but we didn't have any kind of instruction while we were there. ROH: That must have been fun. BS: It was. About this time Dad heard that California had all the jobs, so we up and went to California. ROH: What part of California? 7 BS: Oakland. Dad and Mother both tried to find work there. ROH: What year is this? BS: I was five so about 1931. I don't remember much about California because we weren't there long enough. We rented the basement of a big home. I have no idea what they paid for it, but I know the lady gave it to them for almost nothing. My mother and dad even got down to the point where they were selling toothpaste door-to-door to earn enough money to feed us. I remember we had sub for Santa that year. Someone brought in all of these boxes for our Christmas. It didn't bother us. Everybody was in the same situation. The only thing is my mother thought I had measles, come to find out it was fleas. We had fleas in the beds so bad that mother had to take the bedding outside to shake them and wash them often. I was allergic to the flea bites and I was covered from head to toe. That's why she thought I had measles. They itched. Oh my gosh, I thought I'd die during that time. We used to go out in the desert and get turtles. We loved the desert turtles. They are very calm. Dad would drill a hole through the back of their shell and chain them to a post in the ground so they wouldn't run away. It wasn't harmful and it didn't hurt them. We fed them religiously, particularly the outside leaves of the lettuce and what food we didn't eat. It was a fun time there. We looked forward to Christmas, because that is the only time in the year that we got an orange. Oh, I looked forward to that one orange we would get. 8 ROH: What were some of the things you would eat when they did have a little bit of money? BS: We would eat vegetables. Mother would usually plant a garden. We would have a little bit of meat. Some of the neighbors that had cows would bring us over some milk. Fruit was too expensive. We just couldn't buy fruit, except to can for the coming winter. ROH: Except for those plums. BS: Yes. While living in Oakland, my sister, Arlene, had an assignment in her school class to draw a picture with snow in it. None of the kids had really seen snow because it wasn't cold enough. Arlene drew a picture and the ground was all black and the snowflakes were black. The teacher said, "I thought snow was white." She said, "Well, you've never seen Salt Lake snow then." Everybody in Utah used coal stoves to heat their houses, so it would be absolutely black in a day or two from the soot and smoke of burning coal. Arlene thought the snow was black. It makes sense. ROH: It does to a child. BS: Soon, California announced that they would pay the train fare for anyone that would go back to their home state. We decided we'd take advantage of it because we were worse off there than we were at home. So, we went back home and when we got there, I broke out in red measles. ROH: Were you the only one out of the four girls that caught it? 9 BS: Yes. I also had pneumonia with them. We had no place to go when we got to Utah, so my aunt took us in. We'd sleep on the floor in front of the fireplace. I would open my eyes when we'd lie down there and see these spinning things all over the fireplace. Of course, I was hallucinating from the fever. We lived with my aunt until we found a place on 5th East and 4th South. It was just one room above a business. It had no refrigeration and no air conditioning. It had nothing in it but beds for us to sleep on. You had to go down the hall to use the bathroom. I was still very sick when we moved in. They had the doctor come out again and he told mother, "That child has to have milk, or I'm not sure she's going to make it." Mother said, "I can't afford milk." He said, "Use canned milk and dilute it." We had no place to keep it cold if I didn't drink the whole thing in one day. It was always warm. That was the worst thing I ever drank. I don't like canned milk to this day. I use it for cooking, but I don't like it. ROH: Was your dad able to find a teaching job in Salt Lake? BS: Not at first. He was still struggling to find one. He decided he was going to open a printing shop. He would print and help distribute things. The business did not make much more money. We were still struggling. We finally found a little house in back of a larger house. I remember while we were there that if we were naughty, Dad would say, "You need your legs switched." But he wouldn't go out and cut the switches. We had to go out and cut our own switches. We would try to find the thinnest switches we could find. But we soon found out that they would 10 sting worse than the thicker ones. We straightened up pretty fast with that. It did not happen very often after that. ROH: I would imagine. Let's take you back to Salt Lake. Were you in school in Salt Lake after you got well from the measles? BS: Yes. We came back to Salt Lake City before I finished first grade. I went to the Liberty School there in Salt Lake. I remember only three of my teachers in school and that's all. In the first grade, her name was Ms. Anderson. My fourth grade teacher was Ms. Morgan. In the sixth grade, I had Ms. Jensen. In those times, a married woman could not teach school. I had a lot of girlfriends during my school years. After we graduated, 2 of them moved to the Ogden/Weber County area. It was great to renew our friendships. ROH: At what point did you move to Ogden? BS: We moved to Clearfield when my dad finally found a good job at Hill Field. My mother was working at the Ogden Arsenal. I also worked at the Ogden Arsenal between my junior and senior year of high school. I worked for a captain as a stenographer. His name was Captain Haugh. He said, "As soon as you graduate next year, come back and I'll hold your job for you." And he did. I had to report back to work on the last day of school. I checked with the Principal and he said that if I did not attend that last day, I could not graduate. I went to work that last day and when I went to graduation no one said anything about it and I graduated with the rest of the class. 11 ROH: Which high school did you attend? BS: I attended South High School in Salt Lake. ROH: Where were you in junior high? BS: In junior high I was at Lincoln. During the time I was in junior high we only went to junior high for two years. 7th grade was half a year and 8th grade was half a year. This meant that we only went to school a total of 11 years, so I graduated at 17 years old. ROH: Were you in Salt Lake for a long time? BS: I was in Salt Lake City all through my school years, until I came up to Clearfield to work. I was the only one at home by the time we moved to Clearfield, my sisters were all married. They all married within four months of each other. ROH: Wow. Your mom was busy. BS: She was busy. I think it's easier if you have them close together. I had Louise and Connie get married one in January and one in August. That was harder to do because we were out of the mood, having them all together is almost easier. ROH: Were you involved in helping your sisters with their wedding decorations? BS: Oh yes. And we all wore the same wedding gown. My mother made my oldest sister's wedding gown and we all wore the same one. We couldn't afford more than one. ROH: Do you have pictures of everyone in the same gown? 12 BS: No. I have a picture of mine and Rachael had hers. The other two didn't have a reception so there were no pictures. Unfortunately, the dress couldn't be worn to the temple, but it was fun for us all to wear the same one. ROH: Do you still have the gown? BS: No, my oldest sister had it and I don't know where it is now. She passed away a year ago. ROH: I hope she kept it in the family. BS: I'm sure it is. I think her daughter, Susan, may have taken it. ROH: That's a special gown if four girls got married in the same dress. You touched a little bit about the fact that the Depression was going on. Do you have any memories of the Depression other than not having food to eat? The further we get away from it, the more people seem to forget that it was real. BS: It was very real. We were all aware of it. I don't remember a whole lot as I was young when it began. When World War II started, gas was rationed, shoes were rationed, food was rationed, and meat was rationed. You couldn't get butter, you had to use margarine. It came white and had a yellow pill in it. You'd break that pill and knead it in the plastic bag until it was yellow. They couldn't sell it yellow. Sugar was rationed. We had food stamps for all of this. We were still feeling the effects of the Depression and when the war started it got even worse. I remember the day they announced the war on Sunday, December 7th. In Salt Lake at that time, the newspaper would send out a special edition 13 newspaper and the newsboys would go up and down all of the streets in Salt Lake saying, "Extra, extra! Read all about it," trying to sell newspapers. They said, "The Japanese have attacked the United States in Hawaii." I was just getting ready to go to Sunday school and that's the way I heard it. After the World War II started, we still had to watch pennies. ROH: Were your older sisters working? BS: Yes, they all started working when they graduated from high school. My oldest sister, Rachael, went on a mission for our church to New York. The rest of us worked during this time. Arlene tried to go to the University of Utah. She graduated from high school when she was sixteen. She just could not seem to fit in with all the people at the University, because they were older than she was, so she got a job. I went to work during my senior year of high school. ROH: How did you get that job? BS: Well, because of the war the men were all gone, so all the women had to take on the jobs that the men weren't here to do. I was very fortunate. I got a job at Deseret Book typing school orders for the Salt Lake schools. ROH: Was that being done at Hill Field? BS: No, I never worked at Hill Field; I worked at the Ogden Arsenal. Let me get back to that in a minute. You asked me how I moved to Clearfield. We decided that as long as all three of us, Mom, Dad and I, were working up here in this part of the state, we might as well move up here, rather than make that drive every day. So, 14 the family moved to Clearfield. We lived right there next to the Ogden Arsenal. It was closer to work. ROH: Was there a train at that time? BS: The Bamberger. Only the older people know about the Bamberger, at least the younger generation doesn't. How can that be? ROH: Everybody talks to me about Bamberger. That Bamberger was very important. BS: When Bill and I were dating, we had to date by riding the Bamberger. He was in Ogden and I was in Clearfield. We didn't have a car, and he couldn't get any gas because it was rationed. He got 15 gallons of gas a week to go to work and he could have two gallons of gas for pleasure. Gas was a lot cheaper then, it was only about 18 cents a gallon. ROH: It still didn't get you that far. BS: Exactly, we didn't have the gas. I had money to buy gas, but gas was not available to buy. ROH: So your job was at Deseret Book? BS: Yes, I worked at Deseret Book in Salt Lake and I'd go in at 1:00 p.m. and I'd work until 6:00 p.m. President McKay, before he was President of the LDS Church, spent so much time in the Deseret Book, and I got well-acquainted with him. In fact, he married Bill and me. He was also my mother and dad's friend and we, Bill and I, visited his office and asked him to perform our ceremony. 15 ROH: Today is Wednesday, October 24, 2012. We are in the home of Bernice Stromberg in Ogden, Utah. Present are Bernice and Rebecca Ory Hernandez from Weber State. Before I turned on the recorder you said there were a couple of things that we didn't talk about last time. Why don't you go ahead and tell me a little bit about your mom? BS: When I was in grade school, mother finally decided she would certainly like a washing machine. We had been using the scrub board. She said, "I'm going to go to work so I can buy a washing machine." She worked for a dress factory and her job was sewing sleeves on dresses all day long for 10 cents an hour. She was such a beautiful seamstress. She went on later to work for Ehlers Drapery Company. She made band uniforms and the heavy velvet stage curtains for schools and churches. I don't know how she did it because she was just a little bitty lady. ROH: Drapes like what you would see at an auditorium or a stage? BS: Yes. When I was a junior in high school, she quit work. That was the most delightful thing I had happen in my life because it was so nice to come home from school with my mother there. The house was warm and smelled good because she had been baking and cooking. It was such a wonderful feeling to have mother there when I got home. I was the youngest, so I was the first home all the time. Another thing I hated about coming home and being alone when I came home school, was the fact that we only had a coal stove in the kitchen that we cooked on and a Franklin pot belly stove in the living room for heat. Since I 16 was the first one home, I had to build all the fires in the stoves. I did this from the time I was probably eight years old. (When Bill and I were married, he couldn't even build a fire in a fireplace. I'd have to build the fire in the fireplace because he couldn't get it to start—even though he had been a boy scout). My high school years were not the most fun time in my life. I loved school, but there was just too much drama going on and people hurting one another's feelings. In my year book, one of the girls wrote, "Bernice, I really would have liked to get to know you better, but you were always so stuck up." I was not stuck up, I was very shy. I was totally afraid of strangers and other things. I was so shy that I would hold myself back and she thought I was just avoiding them all. Had I known, I might have done things differently. ROH: You graduated, but you didn't walk? BS: Yes, I graduated and I did walk. Education has always been so important to Bill and me. Neither of us had the opportunity to go to college. As I mentioned before, we were very poor and going through the Depression. There was no money. I could go to work, but I couldn't earn enough to pay tuition. Mother and Dad couldn't work more than they already were, so I was unable to go to college. Bill tried to get in the service, but they wouldn't take him because of football injuries he'd had in high school. ROH: Where did Bill go to high school? BS: Ogden High. 17 ROH: Let's talk a little bit about Bill's background as far as you are aware. Where did he grow up? BS: He was born and raised in Salt Lake until he was nine when his dad moved to Ogden because he got a better job there. ROH: What was his dad doing? BS: At that time, he worked as a grocery salesman. He'd go around to the stores and get all the food orders. He had all of Utah, part of Southern Idaho, and part of Wyoming as his district. He would write up all the orders and turn them into the grocery chain. ROH: Does the grocery chain still exist? BS: They're gone now. The building is still there on Wall Avenue with the name on it, Utah Wholesale Grocery. Bill grew up in Ogden and graduated from Ogden High School. He played football and that was very important to him. ROH: What position did he play? BS: Tight end. He played both offense and defense back then. His school took region the year he graduated. After graduation he went to California to the Curtis Wright Air Technical School and learned to be an airplane overhaul mechanic. He liked mechanics, so he went there by himself. He had a buddy that was going with him, but he decided not to go. Bill told him, "I don't care. I'm going anyway." He went and when he came back he was 18 and went immediately to work for Hill Field. 18 ROH: What was Bill's date of birth? BS: It was the 28th of February, 1925. He worked at Hill Field and loved what he was doing. We got married on August 29, 1945. I was still working at the Ogden Arsenal. I was eighteen and he was twenty. He lost his job three weeks after we got married. They were laying people off at the Base and if you didn't have military experience, you were the first to go. He was one of the first to go. I said, "I'm not sure this is quite fair, I go to work every day and you stay home." He got another job at the Navy base which was located where Freeport Center is now. He worked there for three years and then Hill started hiring and hired him again. He had been a warehouse man at the Navy base and when he went back to Hill, he qualified for a desk job rather than mechanics. Before he retired from Hill Air Force Base, he was the Branch Chief for the Material Management Department. He had been able to work himself up. ROH: When did he retire? BS: He retired in 1977. He was 52 years old. He called me one day from work and he said, "I've got a chance to retire Bernice, what should I do?" I asked, "Well, how is it going to affect our income?" He said, "It won't affect it a bit." They wanted to release one of the highest paid positions. So when they came back to him, he said, "Okay, I'm letting go of myself." They said, "You can't do that." He said, "Yes I can." They said, "We'll transfer you." He said, "You can't. That's an adverse action." So, he retired. 19 He had a lot of things he was interested in doing after that. He went into land development and timeshare. It was a blessing in disguise. I didn't work terribly long after we were married. I stayed home and became a housewife. We couldn't have children right away and didn't have Christine until 1947. My neighbor once came to see me and said, "Bernice, I need to talk to you." I said, "Okay, what do you need?" She said, "You know how when girls get married and they have babies right soon everybody talks about them? Everybody at church now is talking about you and Bill and why you're not having children." I said, "I wish I knew why we weren't having them. I don't know." We really did want children, so after a year or so I went to my doctor and he said, "You'll never have any children." I had a growth that had totally filled the uterus. He took that out I got pregnant right away and have had six children. ROH: You had many children. BS: It was a great thing. ROH: How did you meet Bill? BS: A girl that worked in the same office with me and I became very good friends. One day she said to me, "There are two really good looking guys that go to Mutual. Come with me" I said, "Okay." It was Bill and Glen Robertson. Bill asked me on a date. The way we had to date was even funnier because gas rationing was still on. I lived in Clearfield and he lived in Ogden. The Bamberger was still running 20 and it would run to Ogden. The only stop close to where I lived was at the West gate of Hill Field and the Ogden Arsenal in Clearfield. I would take the train to Ogden and we'd go on our date. Bill would pick me up at the station and then take me back to the station after the date. I would then take the train back and then I'd have to walk on the highway to my house. I lived in a housing development down the street. When I think back on it now, that was a dangerous thing to do because sometimes it would be 10:00 or 11:00 at night and it was always after dark. But it was a different time then entirely. Telephone calls were ten cents each and ten cents was a lot of money then. We had to really plan our dating so that we could use the train for transportation and not have to use the phone to make plans. ROH: Where did you like to go when you did go out on dates? BS: We would go to movies, go for long walks, get ice cream cones, or we danced often at White City Ballroom. There was a hamburger place down on Grant Ave and everybody went there. It was open for years and they were the best hamburgers in Ogden. The place was run by a husband and wife. When they gave it up their children didn't want it. They helped for a while and then they didn't want it, so they sold it. It was a block west of Washington on Grant Ave. Of course, things have changed so much since then. ROH: Where did you get married? BS: We got married in Salt Lake at the LDS Temple. 21 ROH: Where was your first home? BS: It was a duplex on the corner of 29th Street and Jackson. ROH: Is it still there? BS: Yes. We had no furniture or anything, but we were stable. I said, "You know it is amazing what you could do without." We were as poor then as I had been all my life. He hadn't had to do without so he was not use to it. We bought a little wooden table and chairs for the kitchen. His mother gave us a hide-a-bed couch. I had a rocking chair that my mother gave us and we bought a bedroom set. Later on, we were able to buy a washer and dryer. Sometimes we would have no more than ten cents, after paying the bills and buying food, and we would walk up to Harrison Blvd.to Judy's Ice Cream Store and we'd each buy an ice cream cone with that dime. We were broke. We both worked the first year and our annual income was 2500 dollars. That's what we lived on and that's what we bought the furniture with. A Grocery Store was just kitty-corner from where we lived. We had a big garden and we would sell a bushel of tomatoes to that store. They were always glad to get homegrown produce like that. Food was cheap back then. Lettuce was 5 cents, bread 10 cents and hamburger was 25 cents a pound. ROH: Did everyone have a garden at that time? BS: Yes. During World War II, they asked everybody to have a victory garden. Everybody who had a place where they could plant a garden did. I loved my 22 garden. I even planted some veggies out here this last year. I wanted some tomatoes, zucchini and cucumbers so I had one little spot where I took out roses and put in veggies. We really had a wonderful life. He brought home $64 everyday two weeks. We had to pay rent, buy groceries and we had to pay all our utilities, but we never went into debt. It's just amazing what you could do that back then. When we were first married, Bill had a yellow convertible. Later on, He sold that car and we bought a lot next door to Bill's parents on Mount Ogden Drive for 500 dollars. We built a house on it. It was a nice home. Our lot was large and went through the whole block. Years later, we sold the bottom half to a younger couple and they built a house on the bottom half of the lot. Soon all of the property owners did that. ROH: When you were home alone before you had children, how did you fill your time? BS: I started out right away working in my church and with young women. I was 18 years old and I taught girls that were 17 years old. I did lot of things with them. I also started doing genealogy work. I worked periodically. I worked as a ward clerk at the old Thomas Dee Hospital and I volunteered a few years in the McKay Dee Hospital. I told Elizabeth Stewart once, "I want to volunteer." They had come in with a grandmother program at the McKay Hospital where older women would go into the nursery to feed the preemie babies. Elizabeth said, "I'd like to go with you but I wonder if they'd let me not ever having any children". We went over and they said, "You bet." We would go over once a week and feed these teeny tiny 23 babies. She absolutely loved it. They have done away with the program now. I don't know why. One day, I had a little colored baby. He was so cute. His name was Maurice. I fed him, held him, and talked to him. He just grinned. I said, "You can't grin." He didn't weigh five pounds yet and he was 3 months old by that time and he could grin. I thought, "You're too little to smile." That was a great time in my life. I had plenty of things that I could do. ROH: Tell me about your children. BS: Christine was born in 1947. She was not a happy baby. She cried night and day for seven months and we'd take turns sleeping. I would sleep a few hours and Bill would sleep a few hours. But she was a beautiful baby. She wasn't even red or anything. She had such fair skin and looked like she was two or three months old when she was born. She got her first teeth at two months. She has taught school. She graduated from Ogden High Schools and Weber State University. She earned both a Bachelor's and Master's Degree. She married Travis D. Crowther. We encouraged all of our children go to college because we felt it was very important. She received a "normal scholarship" in the education department. You had to teach in Ogden schools for one year if you accepted that scholarship. It covered the tuition. She went through college and always said, "I really want to be a college bum. I would like to go to college all my life and never quit." She's done that and gone into so many things. She taught anything from second grade to sixth grade. They wanted her to go into high school teaching, but she said, "I don't want to because if kids don't get a good foundation in elementary school, they have too much trouble in junior high and high school." She's retired now. 24 ROH: She's not still going to school? BS: No. Both she and Travis are retired and they want to travel and be with their grandchildren Richard was our second child born in 1949. He was a good baby and a good child. But he's now so full of, I do not know what. He's always teasing. Sometimes I wonder about him. He went to Weber State University too, for computer science. When he got his master's degree, he went into mathematics. He decided mathematics would do him more good in what he'd probably end up doing. So he got his master's in mathematics and went to work for Phillips Oil. He works at Northrop Grumman as an engineer in missiles now. Richard had a hard start in school. In the first grade, I was very worried about him. He would go to school, but I knew he wasn't learning to read or the other things he should be learning. I would call the teacher and go to all the parent teacher conferences and she would say, "He's just doing fine." At the end of the school year, that teacher said, "You might just as well forget that boy. He's never going to learn anything." I said, "You've been telling me all year he was doing fine." She said, "Well he isn't. He's not smart enough to learn." I found out later that he had spent the entire first grade on a chair in the closet or out in the hall. She didn't like him and she didn't want to be bothered with him. I went to the principal and that teacher was transferred the next year. I was not the only parent that had problems with her. So Richard had a hard time trying to catch up. When he was in the fourth grade he had a marvelous teacher, May DeLange. She called me on the phone and said, "Bernice, will you have Richard do his oral reading at home 25 and I'll have him do the silent reading at school. They all make so much fun of him and call him Bucky Beaver." You see, his front teeth stuck out so far that he could not pronounce some letters. He could not have his teeth fixed until he was 11 years old. He really developed quite an inferiority complex, which you wouldn't know nowadays. Through high school he still had problems. Every time they had a parent teacher conference I'd get a letter that said, "You need to bring Richard in. He's failing in school." I made an appointment and went over to discuss this with his teacher. He told me that he gets an A on every exam, but he never hands in one page of homework. You get that many zero's, the A's can't cover it. I asked him, "Why? I know you do your homework because we all sat at the table and you did it." He said, "I know. It's in my locker." I said, "Why didn't you turn it in?" He said, "Because I think it's about time they grade you on what you know and not what you do." When he graduated from college, he did some graduate student teaching at BYU. I asked him one day, "Do you require your students to hand in their homework." He said, "Well, of course, how can I watch and follow their progress?" I said, "My how things have changed since you went to high school." He graduated from Weber State University and received his Master's from Utah State University. He married Pamela Day Cook. Third was Louise, born in 1951. She was so timid that many the kids bullied her. She'd go down to wait for the school bus but she wouldn't get on the bus, she'd walk back home. I didn't always have a car to take her to school because we only owned one car and Bill had to take it to work. She had to wear glasses in the first grade and that bothered her too. She was such a smart girl. 26 She attended Weber State University for her Associate degree in Nursing. She went on and finished her Bachelor's and Master's Degrees. She is now just finishing her Doctorate Degree. She teaches nursing at Weber State. At this time, she has passed her doctoral exam and only has her dissertation to do in her doctorate of nursing education. She is married to Michael Salmond. She has four children—two sets of twins. Fourth, came Connie and she was something else. She was born in 1954 and she was so anxious to be born that I almost did not make it to the hospital. She was so effervescent that she couldn't sit still to eat her dinner. She would be on a chair, off a chair, up and down and around the chair. I'd say, "Just sit on your chair." She'd say, "I can't, Mom. I just can't." She would walk to school down to the bus with Louise who just prodded along, and Connie would dance around her and the other kids at least six times before they got to the bus. She did well with school and did well with friends. When she was in third grade and I went to parent teacher conference the teacher said, "That child is the most effervescent child I have ever had in school." I said, "Yes I know she is. I'll talk to her and see what we can do." Mrs. Brown said, "Don't you dare. Can't you imagine how wonderful life would be to be that happy? She does her work and she doesn't bother any of the other kids." She's still that way. She attended to Weber State University, for only one a year. She took all of the business classes and she's since been the head secretary in the Cook Elementary School where all her children went to school. So that worked out fine. She married Stanley W. Sims and they have four children. 27 Douglas was our fifth child, and he was as bad as Connie was and couldn't sit still very long. He loved to be alone and he loved to be home. He could not sit still in school. I told the teacher, "I'll talk to him and see what I can do." She said, "Don't do it. I can teach him on his feet as well as I can teach him on his seat. He never bothers anyone. He just walks around the room and comes back and sits in his chair." I thought, "Oh, what a marvelous teacher." President Thompson used to call him the renegade because he's the only one that didn't go to Weber State. He went to BYU because he had a full ride scholarship in football. He received his Bachelor's and Master's from BYU and then went to Hanuman Medical University in Philadelphia for a Master's of Physical Therapy. He now works in physical therapy at Logan Regional Hospital. He married Maren Smith. Then there's Curtis. He was the best baby and little boy we ever had. We'd take him to the grocery store and he'd get in front of the cereal shelves and just look at things. He'd put his hands behind his back and never touched a thing. We'd do all our shopping and go back and he would still be looking at the cereal. I remember getting in the car one day to go home and said to Bill, "Oh, I think we left Curtis in the store." He did well in school. He's principal now at the Kaysville Junior High School. Most of our children went into education. ROH: Did they all go to the same school growing up? BS: They all went to Ogden High School. Christine, Richard and Curtis got their master's degrees from Utah State. Louise did hers online. She got her Master's 28 through Phoenix and her Doctorate through North Central in Phoenix. She said, "I'll graduate in May, 2014 and I expect you to go to Phoenix. I'm going to walk. I put enough into this that I'm going to walk, so I guess I have to go to Phoenix with her." They've all been good kids and have good jobs. ROH: What were some of the family traditions you had with the kids? BS: Well, Bill was traveling so much, so we took one big vacation a year with all the children. But I went alone with Bill a lot of times when he went on TDY. The grandmothers were always thrilled to take all those children for a time like that. Sometimes they'd divide the week. My mother and dad lived in Salt Lake and Bill's mother and dad lived on the other side of the Weber State campus on Mt. Ogden drive. ROH: Where did you travel to when you took vacations? BS: We went where he had to go work. We would go to Las Vegas and Disneyland every year since it opened, when our children were at home. He'd often have to go down to California and we would rent a house on the beach or close to it and take all the children. You would think we were nomads because we had the play pen, the high chair, and everything on top of the car and all the kids and suitcases inside the car. He had to go to several places in California and when he became branch chief of the material management department he had to visit every air base, even the ones overseas. For three years he was gone 70 percent of each year before he got his technicians trained to do it. He said to me at that time, "Bernice, you've 29 stayed home and raised our children, when I retire I'm going to take you to Europe and to every country I went to." And he did, except for Trippoli. Cadaffe had already taken that country and that air base was closed. ROH: What was that like? BS: It was wonderful. On one trip we visited ten countries—Italy, Germany, Austria, France, Netherlands, and so many around there. We took Don and Elizabeth Stewart with us and my sister and her husband. It was a wonderful trip. We also went to England a couple of times and went to Israel, Egypt, and many other places. ROH: On the same trip or a different? BS: No, it was at different times. Elizabeth wanted to go do some genealogy in England and Scotland, so we went there one time. When I think about all the trips, they were wonderful experiences. We later bought a condo in Indian Wells, California down in the Palm Springs area and we built a cabin up at Baer Lake. We also traveled a lot with the children. Yellowstone was one of the favorite places as a family. ROH: Tell me a little bit about Elizabeth Stewart because you were friends with her and her name is on the library. I like to ask people to tell me a little bit about her. BS: She lived just two doors up the street from us on College Drive. Bill was Bishop then and we got to know her well through the ward. We traveled a lot with them in their big bus. She became one of my best friends. We confided in each other. 30 One thing I remember so well is when she got irritated with Don somehow. All of a sudden the doorbell rang and here's Elizabeth. She got in her car and drove down to my house, past only one house, into my driveway and came in just fuming. I can't even remember what it was, but she was so irritated with him, so we sat and talked. Then all of a sudden she said, "I think I can go home now Bernice." So she got in her car and drove past the one house again and up into her house. She and I did so many things together and I remember once she was over and I was complaining about my children not doing what they were supposed to be doing. She took me by the shoulders and looked me right in the eye and said, "Bernice, I would give everything I own to have your children." We were good for each other because we could say things and the other would never get angry or upset; we'd just take it with a grain of salt. She was one of the most generous people I have ever met. She loved children. Our children called her Grandma Elizabeth. She was also known as the cookie Grandma. She tried to teach me piano lessons, but I didn't do too well. My dad was a violinist and he was in the first Utah Symphony Orchestra. One day I said, "Dad, I want to learn to play." (Richard did and he played in the youth city orchestra, but when he got to high school and played football he would not carry that violin to school). I did my best, but I don't hear music very well. One day after we finished the lesson my dad said, "You know, Bernice, I think you 31 ought to choose another instrument to play." It was the same with piano, I could not do it well. ROH: Just not your instrument. The piano wasn't either? BS: No. You can see why I didn't do much outside of the home with all the children home and no husband most of the time. When all of the children graduated from high school and were working and such, Curtis was the only one that was still home and Grandpa Stromberg was living with us as well. I also had my mother with us for 8 years and him for 20 years. Then Curtis had a friend that went on mission and his mother had cancer. He knew she wouldn't live until he got home from his mission. When he did get home his mother had passed away and his dad had remarried and moved into a trailer home. The new wife had a teenage daughter and his dad just looked at him and said, "I'm sorry Greg, you're going to have to find another place to live because I don't have room for you anymore." Greg tried living with his sister, but she and her husband were newly married and it just didn't work. He was going to Weber State and he asked Curtis, "Do you think your mom and dad would let me live with them while I go to school." Curtis said, "I'm sure they would." So we took in Greg. Then, we took in Debbie who wasn't a member of our church but she wanted to join so badly. She and her mother lived here in Ogden in the East Ridge apartments in a one bedroom unit with her live-in boyfriend. Debbie was sleeping on the couch. She came to live with us and eventually joined the church. 32 She lived with us for a long time. I still call her my bonus child. We had both of them for a while. When Greg finished school and went back down to Centerville. We had a swimming pool in our back yard and Curtis and Annette wanted their little girl to learn to swim. They brought Kari Sue up to teach her to swim in our swimming pool. Kari Sue was not a happy girl and she finally said, "Can I come live with you?" I said, "As long as your parents give you permission." That was always the one criterion with all the kids that lived with us. Her parents came up and visited with us and they said they thought it would be a good thing. She later went to Seattle for a better job. Then there was Michael, who had dated Debbie and wanted to come and live with us. By this time Debbie had dated and had been engaged to another young man. One week before the wedding was to be he said, "I don't want to get married." We had to give all the things back and I had made her wedding dress and everything. She was lost and I said, "Would you like to go on a mission?" She said, "Yes." So we sent her on a mission down to Costa Rica. She was such a spoiled child because she was an only child. I said, "You know, you're never going to make it down there with all the bugs and the forest and all of that. I'm just not sure you're going to make it." She told me later, "Bernice, every time I felt like coming home, I thought, no way I am not going to give you the chance to say I told you so." She stayed her full time. She spent some time in the hospital because she caught some of the bad bugs. 33 After Bill's mother died, Grandpa Stromberg came to live with us. He was pretty good for quite a few years, but then I had to watch him every minute because he'd wander. Later, my Ddd passed away and my mother was living alone, but I was afraid of her falling so we took her in as well. Counting the seven years that I took care of Bill, it had been 35 years that I was taking care of elderly people or teenagers in my home. I loved every minute of it. I really did. Bill's dad was the sweetest man I've ever met. I always called him my spiritual giant. ROH: What was his name? BS: Verner Lorenzo Stromberg. His parents came over from Sweden with one sister and two brothers. One baby died and they buried him at sea. Verner was born here. One day, his dad didn't come in from the fields, he was 35 years of age and they found him dead out in the field. His mother and grandmother were living here too and they didn't even speak English. It was kind of a hard time for them. My ancestors came from Denmark. I'm a pure Dane. Bill and I really had a wonderful life. We were always together. Everything we did, we did together or with the family. Did you want me to talk about Weber State? ROH: Yes, I was going to ask you how you became so generous with your time with Weber State. BS: It was a pleasure. I love the people there and the people that work there. John Johnson, the athletic director, I just felt like he was my own. He wasn't married when he was here and he'd come over to our home and sit in the big chair in 34 front of the fire place and say, "I absolutely love to just come over here and sit and talk with you and Bill." Bill was involved first, other than our involvement with the children going to Weber State. I did take one class there in home decorating. When Elizabeth and Don Stewart became sick and needed to have some more on their board, they asked Dean Hurst, Jack Lampros and Bill if they would serve on the board. ROH: How did Bill meet Elizabeth? BS: He was her Bishop at that time and she lived two doors up the street from us. ROH: Okay, so that's how they met originally? BS: Yes. Well, we knew them before that because we lived so close to them. She was the most generous person I've ever met in my whole life. A lot of people tried to take advantage of her. She'd get 15 to 20 letters in the mail asking for money. ROH: From random people in town? BS: Yes. They'd say, "I'm a friend of so-and-so who's the friend of…" and on and on. She said, "Well, I can't give it to you. We are a 501c3 charity organization and we cannot give to just an individual. It has to be charitable organization." That would cut most of them off. ROH: You're not the first person to say that to me. The first time I heard it I was surprised. Now, I'm surprised to continue to hear it. 35 BS: They knew she had money and wanted some of it. I had Don and Elizabeth over for Sunday dinner for 30 years, except holidays when they would go to Carol and Dean Hurst's. My mother was living with us at this time and would always make pies for dinner. She was the best pie maker in the world. When Don came to my mom's funeral he said, "Bernice, who's going to make our pies now?" I said, "Probably me." ROH: Do you? BS: Oh yes, I've made pies for a long time. ROH: So she taught you how to make pastry and pies? BS: Yes, Danish pastries and Danish foods, which I love. A Danish soup called hot soup. It's made with raisins, prunes, sliced lemon, cinnamon sticks, and tapioca. It's all boiled together and all those flavors blend. Oh, I did love that soup and so did Bill's dad because it was also a soup they had in Sweden. I finally found a recipe for it. My niece took all of mother's recipes when she passed away and I didn't get some of them that I wanted. My children and Bill hated the soup. It was so good though, I couldn't imagine them not liking it. Another quick thing about Elizabeth, she was known as the cookie grandma of the neighborhood. She always made cookies and the kids would go to her house or mine after school. I would always have hot bread and peanut butter and honey. One day, Douglas came home when he was about five and said, "You know what, Mom, I'm going to marry Elizabeth." I said, "Hun, she is already married to Don." He said, "I don't care. I'm going to marry Elizabeth." He 36 just kept telling her that and we just laughed about it. When he got engaged to be married, he came home from the "Y" and said, "I've got to go talk to Elizabeth." I said, "Okay, what do you have to talk to her about?" He said, "I'll tell you when I come home." He went up there with his bride-to-be, and asked her permission to marry Maren. She gave him and Maren her permission and blessing. ROH: That's so sweet. BS: It was just a sweet, sweet thing. ROH: That's adorable. How did you start to get involved with Weber State? BS: I always went with Bill. I was always with him because they invited us to everything and that's how I got to know Presidents Ann Milner, Paul Thompson, Steve Nadauld, President Bishop and Bill Miller. So you can see how far back we go with people from the university. I just tagged along with Bill. ROH: I've talked with the Miller Sisters. BS: Their mother, Mary, and I were so close and every time I'd see her she'd say, "Bernice, remember you're talking at my funeral. I've told the girls that you're going to be the speaker at my funeral." I just fluffed it off and she lived a lot of years after that. When she passed away Donna called me and said, "Bernice, I've got a question to ask you. "Would you mind if we girls talk at mother's funeral? We think that would be nice, but I know mom always said you were to be the speaker. I wanted to clear it with you before we did anything about it." I said, "Oh you sweet girl. I always expected you to." That family was a very 37 special family. It wasn't until Bill passed away that I was asked to be on the Stewart Foundation board. That's when I got a little more involved myself. I knew everybody so I felt like I was part of them already. ROH: Like part of the family. BS: Right. It's a great experience. That's why when they called me recently on the MS thing she said, "We'd like to know what you've done in the community." I said, "Shelly, I haven't really done a whole lot in the community." Bill and I liked the weight training building and they needed to make it bigger and get all new equipment and so Bill and I did that. I always think about what Jack said one day when they were asking him about donating money to the college. He said, "You know, it's an awesome experience to be an entrepreneur. Especially when you do it with someone else's money," meaning the foundation's money. I really laughed at him. ROH: He is funny too. BS: He is. Both he and his wife are. That's my connection with them, the foundation, and we became friends and traveled together. I can't say that I have done much other than just being a part of all of it with Bill. ROH: Well, that's very important because without your support we wouldn't be able to do all the wonderful things that we're able to do and it means a lot to the university. 38 BS: That's about all I did. I had been asked during all those years of raising children, if I would be the Weber County chair of one of the county foundations. They asked me many times if it would be possible to come and work in the social services to work with the pregnant girls, to be their friend, take them to Dr. appointments and let them know that someone cares and loves them. I wanted to help, but I always had someone at home that needed my care. I've always felt bad that I couldn't do more. I started working with the young women in our church when I was 18 and did that for 44 years. ROH: Are you still doing that now? BS: No. I had to give that up. It got to where I could not do the camping and hiking Ben Lomond and all those things, but I did teach for a while. They said, "Just come back and teach the girls and we'll get you help for the activities. You can just do the lessons." ROH: What keeps you busy now? BS: Great grandchildren. ROH: Are you still serving on the board? BS: Yes. I still am. I'm trying to think of what I do. ROH: Trying to keep up with all the family? BS: Well, that's the thing, I always have somebody here. Earlier I had an Avon lady that came to my house and she said, "I can't wait to come here. It's just like a three-ring circus. I never know how many are coming in and out." Ours was a fun 39 home. Bill and I both thoroughly loved teenagers. When the kids got to be teenagers and people, we just had a ball. Also, Ned and Maggie Favero had the White House wedding reception—do you remember that? ROH: I've read about it. BS: She asked me if I would consider doing catering for them. This was a perfect opportunity for my girls and me. We spent many, many hours together baking, making candy and tarts, talking, laughing, and bonding our love and lives together. It gave the girls work experience and an income. I loved to cook. I hate it now, but I loved it then and in the stake anybody that had a problem with cooking would call me. In fact, one ward has already called to see if I would make chocolates again. I said, "No, but Christine and Connie can do it." It really was a circus. We loved kids. When people start complaining about their teenagers I think, "Why? They're all so wonderful." I still have them come and visit, some of those that I taught back in 1945 and 1946. For years they would invite me out to lunch once in a while. Teenagers are pretty smart, they know genuine love and they know a put-on. Bill felt that way too, he absolutely loved young people and they knew it. I smiled when one of the hospice people came in and she said, "The first time I walked in your kitchen, I knew that this was a happy home." I have a sign up on the wall that says, "It's a Wonderful Life." Another lady in our ward brought me one that says, "Life is good." It was good. It really was. I can't say we always agreed. We could build houses and get 40 along fine, but put us in the yard and there was no way could we work together. I always said to him, "If you want to get a housekeeper or a gardener, be sure it's a housekeeper because I want to stay the gardener." He loved to build and I loved to work in the yard. My life was full raising our children and caring for parents, filling our home with teenagers when ours began to leave. When we moved here to Chimney Hills, it was the first time we lived alone, Bill and I. I really miss the full house. We have been truly blessed with a great posterity, 6 children, 26 grandchildren and 55 great grandchildren. When you add in all the spouses, that is over 100 in our family. Life's been good, and I wish I could share more. I've helped a lot of people, but it's just been me doing the things I love to do which is helping people. I still like to serve people. ROH: I thank you very much for taking the time to share your story with me. BS: Thank you, I am really glad to get better acquainted with you.

Judith P. Mitchell, ca. 1984; Judith P. Mitchell, May 17, 2013 ; The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ; This is an oral history interview with Judith P. Mitchell conducted on May 17, 2013 by Ruby Licona. Judith discusses her career at Weber State from 1983 to 2011 in the Teacher Education program. ; 35p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 video disc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Judith P. Mitchell Interviewed by Ruby Licona 17 May 2013 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Judith P. Mitchell Interviewed by Ruby Licona 17 May 2013 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees, who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives, which also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Mitchell, Judith P., an oral history by Ruby Licona, 17 May 2013, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Judith P. Mitchell ca. 1984 Judith P. Mitchell May 17, 2013 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Judith P. Mitchell conducted on May 17, 2013 by Ruby Licona. Judith discusses her career at Weber State from 1983 to 2011 in the Teacher Education program. RL: I'm Ruby Licona and I am on the faculty here in the Stewart Library. Today is May 17, 2013 and we are speaking with Judith P. Mitchell, who retired from the Teacher Education program in 2011. She originally came to Weber State in 1983. We are looking forward to speaking with her and getting a good perspective on her years here at Weber. Our meeting this morning is in the Waterstradt Seminar in the Special Collections Library. Good morning, Judy, how are you? JM: Good morning. I am fine, thank you. RL: I am so glad you agreed to do this. We are trying to capture as many perspectives on Weber State and its history as possible and your name came up as someone that we should spend some time talking to. Why don't we begin with you telling us a little bit about your background, where you grew up and what might have drawn you to teaching? JM: I grew up at least part of the time in Ogden. My parents were from Ogden. When I was a child, my father went to medical school. We lived in Portland, Oregon for about seven years and in Philadelphia for a year while he completed his education. He was an ophthalmologist here in Ogden. We came back to Ogden when I was nine years old. I started the fifth grade at Polk School, went through the Ogden School District system and graduated from Ogden High School. Page 1 of 35 Afterward, I went to Stanford University and spent four years there. My major was music. It was a wonderful background and I've never regretted it for a minute because it probably did more to enhance my life and my children's lives than any other education I could have had at the time. I had lots of literature, music, art history and history classes. It was a nice foundation for whatever I decided to do next. After college, I came back to Ogden and went to work for Amalgamated Sugar. Those were the days when old Mr. Benning was still in charge of Amalgamated Sugar. He was an interesting man who still had the secretarial girls ironing the carbon paper so that it could be reused. He also had these little things that went on the end of the pencil so that they could use the pencil down to the last stub. I think he bought Amalgamated Sugar at a penny a share, so he came through all of those really hard years and he knew how to squeeze a nickel. After that, I was recruited by Bill Eccles to work for First Security Corporation as his executive secretary. First Security then moved to Salt Lake, so I moved to Salt Lake as well. At that time, I became reacquainted with the man I later married. He was a year or two older than I and I had known his sister. I have three children. Of course, they are all adults now and I have five grandchildren. When I was having my first baby, I quit working and I stayed home. When my two oldest children got into school, I was so interested in the process of how children learn to read that I thought, "Here I am with a Stanford Baccalaureate Degree and I could just whip down to Polk School and teach reading." I discovered that I had to have a state Page 2 of 35 license, so I came to Weber State. They accepted all my liberal education credits and I had to take the teacher education courses. I think I had to take ten hours of science which I had carefully avoided in college previously. They awarded me a Baccalaureate Degree in Science and then I went on to teach in the public schools in Weber School District. I taught at Marlon Hills Elementary and Valley View Elementary and ended up out in Hooper. I loved Weber School District. They gave me opportunities to learn and do different things. I'm not sure that the educational standards of the parents were necessarily the most important thing, but they were good parents and they were very supportive of the school and of teachers. The children were lovely children and were wonderful to teach. I had never spent any time in a farm community before and at that time Hooper was a farm community. Many raised sugar beets as a cash crop. In the fall, there would be mountains of sugar beets waiting to be picked up. I earned a Master's Degree from Utah State University in education and my thesis was on reading. Then, I decided to do a doctorate and did that at the University of Utah. I knew I liked the public schools. I liked teaching and I liked the kids, but I am restless by nature and I thought what I really wanted to do was teach in higher education because I thought I could make a difference. RL: Was it a Ph.D. or an Ed.D. that you earned at the University of Utah? JM: It was a Ph.D. I like going to school. I think most of us that are in the education field like going to school. We like to teach, but we also like to be taught. So, when Page 3 of 35 the opportunity came up for me to come to Weber on a trade for a year, I was delighted. My district had recommended that since I had the doctorate. RL: So you came here on a trade? How did that work? JM: Karen Neilson was a professor in the Teacher Education program and her field was secondary education and literacy. Of course, I was an elementary person, but that made little mind. It was my first experience with taking somebody else's course and somebody else's notes and trying to figure out what it was that I was supposed to teach. She would have things in her notes like, "Come tomorrow and it will be a big surprise about this or that." I would think, "What is the big surprise that I'm going to come up with?" She extended her contract with the DODS schools, so I had an opportunity to come to Weber. This was at the time of the WILKITS. The WILKITS were packets of materials and students moved through them at their own pace. Many of us from traditional education settings had difficulty with this notion because there were no set classes and we met with students individually. For some students it worked wonderfully and for others it didn't work well at all. RL: Was that something that was just here at Weber, or was that a trend? JM: It was a new trend across the country in some ways and people came from all over to see the programs at Weber. RL: Was it solely in education? JM: Yes, it was only in education. A group of professors in Teacher Education had come to Weber at about the same time and they decided they could develop this program. They received a big federal grant so that they could be freed up for an Page 4 of 35 entire year to develop all the program materials. The thing they didn't really have time to do was to develop the assessment materials that went with it. I went through this program when I came to Weber to get a license to teach. For me, it was good. I'm quite self-motivated and I balance my time well, but for many students it was a nightmare. There were no deadlines so you just moved through it at your own pace. RL: That has a similarity to some of our online courses now, doesn't it? JM: Absolutely. RL: You have students that are very motivated and jump right in. I've had students try to turn in all of the assignments in the first week of an eight week block. I tell them, "No, we need to go through some things first." JM: Yes, it is the same idea. As I said, there were no set classes, so you'd just make an appointment with your professor when you were ready to be checked out of that particular module. I think they transported those modules all over the world. There was a big program in the Middle East and Blaine Parkinson and Harley Adamson made many trips. The college received a big national award for the program. It was cutting edge at the time. RL: We did have people from Weber who were involved with opening up a university in the Middle East. JM: That's right. I think Blaine was one of them and he was dean of the College of Education at one time. As some of us came to campus, we looked at teaching and learning differently and felt the need to have more set classes where we saw more than one student at a time. It was very time consuming for the faculty to Page 5 of 35 meet one-on-one with students. By the end of the fifth or sixth year after I came, I didn't see any more modules. RL: Were they just kind of eased out? JM: They were. People had different feelings about them. Like anything else, if you've had a hand in developing something you're a real advocate. RL: You have more ownership of it. JM: Absolutely. RL: Who were some of your colleagues when you came here? JM: Some of them have been here a long time. Luan Ferrin, Jimmie Merrill, Keith Burnett, and Burdett Johnson all came to Weber at about the same time. RL: You mention a lot of men. Were there not as many women in education at that time or just not in higher education? JM: When I went to work for Weber district, there wasn't a single woman administrator in Weber School District. That's a big school district. I think there were a few more women in Ogden School District. As a child, I had a woman principal and it wasn't uncommon at all. Later, it seemed like you didn't see many women in administration. We saw a lot of women teachers and still do, but not too many administrators. RL: There were some women in upper level positions during World War II as a result of the men being gone, but then I think it reversed. JM: Yes. I'm sure it did. It was pretty much a group of men. There were two or three women and they had been here a long time. They had been here at the time for this development. Page 6 of 35 RL: Did the men help to mentor you or was it more adversarial? JM: It wasn't adversarial. I'll have to say that Don Sharpes was the one who really sat me down and said, "Now, this is how you do your vitae and how you keep your records and your file. Oh by the way, the ladies room is down there." RL: That's essential orientation. JM: I didn't find that any one colleague did as much mentoring as they might have. Cordell Perkes hired me. He was a chair at the time. He was a very good colleague and was helpful. Dick Jones was the dean, at the time, in the College of Education. He was also very helpful as far as I was concerned. When Dick was named Dean of the College of Education, there were two other faculty members that aspired to be dean, but they were not selected. I think Bob Smith was the Vice President of Academic Affairs, the position now call Provost. He made the choice and I think Dean Jones had a hard time because there were a lot of good 'ol boys who felt they were cheated and that they should have the position. They didn't like the way Dick ran the finances. I'm not sure it would have mattered what he did or how he did it, they wouldn't have liked it. For me, as a new faculty member, he was a good dean. He gave me a lot of opportunities to do different kinds of things and I appreciated that. Cordell Perkes had come in not too long before I and he was very supportive of changes and was looking for new ways to do things and understood that there's a freedom in being an academic. I think that one of the difficulties with the WILKIT system was the fact that there wasn't any academic Page 7 of 35 freedom in terms of how we did things in a classroom. That kind of flew in the face of what most of us believed. RL: You came in 1983. When I arrived in 1990, we had three Master's programs. That would have been just seven years after you got here. I understand that you were one of the ones that established the master's program in education. JM: Well, not really. When I came, the Master's in Education was a combined program with Utah State University. There were three people from USU and three from Weber that sat on a steering committee. Within a year or so, I did do that, which was wonderful and it taught me a lot about the program. Weber faculty members were doing most of the teaching and that gave us some grounds for saying that it should be Weber's program since we were doing the work with the students and teaching the classes. Don Sharpes was hired to head up that combination of faculty from the two universities and to run the program. I did have that nice opportunity to get in from the beginning on the whole thing. When the program was finally declared independent, I did direct the master's program for about 13 or 14 years. RL: Maybe that's where I got the impression that you had helped to establish it. You were in on the ground floor though. JM: Yes. At the beginning, I had that opportunity along with the chair and somebody else. I was Chair of Elementary Education during some of that time when we were still a part of Utah State's program. Page 8 of 35 RL: What other kinds of things were happening on the campus that you might have been involved with early on? There were some changes happening in the 1970's and 1980's with the establishment of the Faculty Senate. JM: That must have been earlier because when I came, there were stories about Joe Bishop wiring the Faculty Senate room where we held meetings. The reason it all came out was because somebody went to a little party after the Faculty Senate meeting and there was a lot of information that was out. When I came they were still reeling from President Bishop and the kinds of things that went on while he was president. I think he was a man who was very suspicious about what faculty might do. RL: From what I understand, he was trying to pull in the reins at a time when the Faculty Senate was starting to gain more academic freedom and more faculty involvement and control. JM: No question. When I got involved in Faculty Senate, it was one of the best things that happened to me academically. For one thing, I worked with awfully interesting people. Secondly, the Faculty Senate had gained a great deal of power working with Rod Brady. RL: I believe he left in about 1987 or 1988. JM: Then Stephen Nadauld came. We became a university at that point. RL: That's right. That happened toward the end of 1990. JM: There were a lot of changes at the university. We were suddenly looking at ourselves differently. I think there had been an attitude that it was just an extension of Harrison High. Part of that grew out of how faculty looked at Page 9 of 35 themselves and how they looked at the school, not so much the townspeople perhaps. RL: Recently, I've heard a couple of things on television that have grated on my nerves. There was a young man on one of the news programs that grew up in Ogden. He was presenting an award of some kind and asked the young woman where she was going to be going to college and she said, "Weber State." He said, "Oh, Harrison High School." If I had been there I think I would've throttled him. Not too long after that I heard someone on KUER, University of Utah's radio station, referring to us as Weber State College. I thought, "We've been Weber State University for 22 years now. Attitudes have to change sometime and people like you need to be taken to the wood shed." JM: In many ways faculty were their own worst enemies because they were the ones who perpetuated it. It was a shame. Suddenly, university status did a great deal for Weber in terms of attitudes. At the time, Weber State College was the biggest four year college in the United States granting baccalaureate degrees. RL: They had a large enrollment. JM: Exactly. RL: There were a lot of things that were attractive then that still are now. The trend to try and keep classes smaller and community involvement and different things that have been developed here on campus are still attractive. When we were going through the process to become a university there was a lot of squawking from University of Utah and Utah State University about something being written in that would prevent Weber State from becoming a doctoral granting university Page 10 of 35 and that there were not to be massive numbers of graduate degrees. We haven't grown greatly, but we do have nine graduate degrees now. Certainly, the accent has been on programs that add to the workforce and meet the need of not just the immediate community, but of the state with the emphasis on providing an educated workforce. I guess that's kind of an extension of starting out your program as a Utah State program. JM: I think that's true. The other thing that's interesting is that if you look at the graduation statistics at Weber, half of them are still two year degrees. They are not baccalaureate degrees at all. RL: Some students do go on to get their baccalaureate. JM: A state the size of Utah could hardly afford two research universities. One of the things I think the Board of Regents has done especially well is that they have taken a look at programs and tried to avoid duplication. There is one medical school in Utah and no dental school. There's one law school. I think those kinds of things make sense because a state the size of Utah really can't afford to run two medical schools or two law schools. RL: Brigham Young University does have a law school. It's privately funded, but even so, it is a situation where we've got a couple million people in Utah. JM: It's growing, heaven knows. It's a tiered system. California has the same kind of tiered system. You have your research universities and you have your state universities and it seems that's where the growth is happening, perhaps more than we need it right now. Utah Valley University is just huge and Southern Utah is a master's granting university again. Page 11 of 35 RL: Of course, Dixie has gone from a two-year program to a master's granting university. JM: Price is a satellite for Utah State which is different, but the fact that Dixie is getting university status in many ways is rather surprising. A lot of the people in St. George are snowbirds, but apparently they seem to think they have a population to support a university. RL: It is the same administrator down there that helped Weber State become a university. JM: Yes, Stephen Nadauld is there. It's interesting, I think, that Utah has done a pretty good job in figuring most of this out. I have great respect for the University of Utah and Utah State University and they have significant programs that are highly rated and they should be. I am proud of Weber. When I look at what's happened in the last couple years, I think about what happened with the music department. RL: There's a new advertisement showing our resident piano prodigy that says, "Chose Weber State Over Julliard." When you see that it picks you up. JM: It makes you proud. Fan Ya's success has resulted in more students coming for the music program because of how well this young woman has done. RL: She's got the support of the administration. JM: No question about it. It has been helpful. On top of that, I've never seen a girl or a boy work harder than she does. She's earned every inch of it. RL: We also have a top-notch nursing program. Getting back to the College of Education, are there students that you had in those early years that you have Page 12 of 35 learned about their accomplishments and whom you feel got the basis for them here? JM: Absolutely. That first year I taught at Weber, I taught secondary students. Depending on their major, many were a challenge in a literacy course. In a lot of other courses they were as well and the students would say, "Well, in our majors we never write." It was a challenge for me. One of my very finest students was Jeff Stephens, who is now superintendent of Weber School District. He got his master's here and he went off and got his doctorate. There are many that I see who are school principals, wonderfully successful classroom teachers, and reading coaches. I've been teaching the level two reading coaching class for about five or six years now and most of them have Master's degrees when they come back to get this extra certification. They are the cream of the crop. They're bright, hard-working and they make a huge difference in school. RL: They come back to Weber State, and I don't think that's necessarily just for the location. JM: I don't either, although that plays a role. RL: I think they are looking for a quality program. JM: I think so. Weber has made a huge effort to maintain the class sizes. I think the faculty reaches out to students in good ways. There are not classes that are taught by students who do not speak English which is a huge advantage. One of my boys did a doctorate at the University of Utah and in the last year he said, "It's a do-it-yourself thing. This fellow doesn't speak any English at all and it really is a do-it-yourself educational program." That doesn't happen at Weber. Faculty Page 13 of 35 teach the classes, which I think matters. I think our graduates that are out in the field tend to think, "I did well as an undergraduate at Weber. I'll go back and do some graduate work there." One of the things I am most proud of was that in our Master of Education program, we maintained high standards. Students did a thesis or a project which was very scholarly. Everybody at that stage knows how to take classes and how to pass classes. The thing that really separates the men from the boys is doing some research and writing about it. I'm proud of that. I think that our master's program in education can stand up to anybody's. RL: The emphasis at Weber has changed somewhat in the last 20 years and there's more of an emphasis for the faculty to have more scholarship and research involvement. That still hasn't changed their role with the students. JM: You're absolutely right. RL: Certainly, Weber has won some kudos for bringing the National Undergraduate Research program here to Weber. Also, the Undergraduate Literature Conference we have every year is still used as a cookie cutter model for other places. In Teacher Education, you had the ISTE international group of people here from Australia, New Zealand, Europe, and Africa. That has to be a feather in you cap. JM: I think so. Along that whole line is that the College of Education has managed their endowment well and it has given faculty opportunities to attend conferences in a variety of places both in this country and abroad. They've had opportunities to make contacts with scholars and teachers and that's been valuable. Page 14 of 35 RL: Has Teacher Education done anything in terms of cooperative programs? Are there sister universities or programs that you've maintained? JM: I think the one thing I can think about is when I first came to Weber, one of the faculty members originally came from Arizona and she had done a lot of work with Native Americans on the reservations. She was a really brilliant lady and her field was reading. When she came to Weber, she wrote some grants and we ended up taking our teacher education program to Blanding. I was the new kid on the block, so I taught quite a bit in Blanding and Bluff, which was an eye-opener for me. Most of them were Navajo students seeking education degrees in order to teach. At that time in Blanding, there was an elementary school and I would say maybe 80 percent of the youngsters were Native American children. There wasn't a single aid, teacher, or administrator that was Native American. In Bluff, I think 98 percent of the children were Native American kids and there not a single teacher or aid that was Native American. We took that program down for a number of years and we trained a number of teachers, which I think changed the whole educational environment down there. Some of them didn't end up in teaching, but ended up in federal agencies where their educational background was valued. RL: They advanced beyond what had been available previously. JM: It was interesting because the way the Pell Grants worked then was that they got the money no matter if they completed a class or not. Quarter after quarter, you'd have some of the same people in the class because they never finished a class, but they got their Pell Grant so that they could go to school. It also supported Page 15 of 35 them for food, rent, and all of their living expenses. The Navajo culture is very matriarchal and many of the men didn't work or there wasn't work for them. There were high rates of alcoholism. The women would come to class and the men would stand along the back wall like, "Don't you teach my wife anything, it'll change the world." Many of the women were very ambitious and looked at their children and thought, "It's going to be up to me or these kids are going to end up like their not very good dad." We had quite a bit of success with that. Many times, these teachers would come up in the summer to take classes on the campus. They'd bring their kids and live in the dorms. It was a big sacrifice for them. It was wonderful for us. Certainly, it was an opportunity for me, who came from a background where I knew very little about Native American populations. When I went to college, it was very un-diverse. We were mostly white, middle-class kind of people. RL: We've been lucky at Weber that several of our presidents have put an emphasis on diversity and unity. I know when I got here, I started looking around at our student body and someone had mentioned that Weber and Ogden School Districts were something like 25 percent Hispanic, Latino, etc. When I looked around on campus, there were fewer than one percent of our students that fit into that category. Certainly, it's not up to 20 or 25 percent, but we are more between 5 and 10 percent now. JM: Exactly. Families that perhaps never anticipated college for their kids are looking at education differently. Page 16 of 35 RL: We are certainly seeing a lot more brown faces, Asian students, Pacific Islanders, etc. I think that changes the flavor of the University in the right direction. In regard to that, you started here when we had President Brady and when he left Stephen Naduald came and then Paul Thompson and F. Ann Milner. That was a big feather in Weber's cap too, having a female president. JM: She was a very successful female president. It was at a time when Eastern Utah had hired a woman who ran through the money like water through the creek. When she left, that little college was in horrible condition because the money had been spent. I never went to a conference anywhere in the United States that she wasn't there. I would think, "This isn't your field. Why would you be interested in this?" Ann came with an excellent background and she'd been well-trained by Paul. She was a very successful woman not only on our campus, but across the state and with the legislature. RL: She was well-respected. JM: Absolutely. It is a feather in Weber's cap. No question. RL: As far as the different administrators and the type of ship they sailed in terms of their styles, did that affect your career in any way? JM: I think it did. When I was active in the Faculty Senate and I was faculty chair for three years and co-chair for three years. RL: You were the second woman to do that? JM: Yes. I think Rosemary Conover was the first one. I had a good six year run, which was nice. Paul Thompson was the president and he very much believed in shared governance. He gave us lots of opportunities to be heard and he was Page 17 of 35 good to work with in that he felt that there were a number of things about which the faculty needed to have an equal voice, to have a say and to be able to ask the hard questions. For most of us at that time working in faculty governance, we had great opportunities. RL: I think he was more willing to accept some of the suggestions coming out of the Senate. I remember at one point I was chairing the Academic Standards Committee and I was given a list of 13 or 14 things that needed to be accomplished. That was about the time of the Gulf War and we were having to come up with policies regarding students who were pulled out of class and sent to the Middle East and what were we going to do with them when they came back as far as tuition or letting them finish classes. There were a lot of major things that were being determined then that our committee was involved with. We ended up coming up with the tiered admission thing so that we could still meet the mission of the University, but take on the new issues that we were facing. I think that was a time when people did have a voice. As far as your involvement in heading up the Faculty Senate, were there major things occurring that you needed to deal with? What were they and what were some of the outcomes? JM: When I started in affairs of Faculty Senate, Tom Burton was the chair. He appointed me to the Curriculum Committee and that was both curriculum and general education at the time. RL: So you came in as a new faculty member first? JM: Yes. Then I became chair of the Curriculum Committee. At the time, curriculum and general education were combined into one committee. Of course, we didn't Page 18 of 35 have the technology, so everything would be delivered to my office and there would be a stack of papers to read through. Those were very different times. I look back at the number of trees we must have killed. Tom was a good mentor and a good trainer. Curriculum and General Education was a great place to start and became something that I continued to work in while I was at Weber, until the last few years. One of the things that happened during the time I was in Faculty Senate was the big conversion to semesters from quarters. I still maintain that most of my students, even some of my graduate students, have a ten week attention span, not a 15 or 16 week attention span. The state said it would cheaper and of course it wasn't cheaper, it cost tons of money to make the conversion. It was far more complex than any of us thought. We made a lot of presentations about the change and why not. At the time, I was on the State Committee for General Education and that was a wonderful time because it was the first faculty committee that was under the Board of Regents. Each of the colleges and universities was represented. I was on that for about 15 years and we did a lot of things. The legislature decided the institution needed to have some common numbers, particularly for general education courses. We did a lot of that without wrecking people's individual programs. Most students in Utah at some time or another attend another university somewhere in the state. With some common numbers in those undergraduate courses in general education, the transfer was easy. For me, personally, working with the faculty leaders from across the state was a wonderful experience. They were the brightest of the bright. It gave me access to Page 19 of 35 friendships and acquaintances that I never would have had and it allowed me to know who to talk to at each university when something came up. Another group I really liked working with was the group of Faculty Senate presidents. In fact, that's where I met our present president. He was the President of the Faculty Senate of the University of Utah when I was active at Weber. He was a good chemistry professor and very bright, so now for him to be our president is an interesting kind of thing. Anyway, they were wonderful, interesting, smart people that had lots of ideas. We had a lot of respect. We were appointed by the Board of Regents and then appointed within our universities. Bob Smith put me on, so that was a long time ago. I learned a lot about higher education and I also learned a lot about the curriculum and systems within our state and how well most of them work. The change from quarters to semesters was also a big deal. RL: That was in the mid-1990's, wasn't it? JM: Yes. I think it was about 1995. That was a really big switch. In some ways, it made us come into a commonality with other universities within our state. I have to laugh because all the arguments about why semesters are so much better than quarters are a crock. There are wonderful universities across the United States that are still on quarters like the University of Oregon, Stanford, Columbia, etc. RL: Judy, you've talked a little bit about your involvement with the Faculty Senate as chair and the General Education/Curriculum Committee after you stepped down as chair. At about that time, we had a big push with the diversity requirements in Page 20 of 35 the classes and the Curriculum and General Education became separate committees and they are very involved. JM: Yes, and I went back on General Education just a few years ago. RL: You mentioned that, so what I wanted to ask you how that worked out for you and did you stay involved with that until you left? JM: Yes, until about last year, I continued to serve on senate committees. I served on a number of senate committees, which was wonderful. I think they seemed to value my background and what I'd already done and it worked well for me because I really enjoyed working with my colleagues. During the time I was senate chair, I was also head of Teaching and Learning because our person left. I was wearing two hats and I had three offices instead of two. It was a busy time. My department was good about the release time and at that time the Faculty Senate had some money, so we did get release time, which was a huge help, I couldn't have done most of what I did if I hadn't had some release time. RL: This was during the time of Paul Thompson's presidency? JM: Yes it was. RL: Then he left and Ann Milner stepped up to the plate and hit a few home runs. JM: Right. While Paul was president and Eisler was the provost, I worked a lot with Eisler and when it came time to name a new president, it was between him and Ann, do you remember that? RL: Yes. I had been off campus then for a little while. Page 21 of 35 JM: He was the provost and was an academic and Ann was someone who came through Continuing Education and Paul had mentored her wonderfully. Of course, she is a bright woman and she did a good job. RL: She had been involved with Development. JM: She had all of those kinds of things on that side of the university. RL: Those are important too. JM: Well, raising money is always important in universities. For Ann, I was surprised when she stepped down when she did simply because the capital campaign was her baby. I was just really surprised that she didn't see it to the end. RL: She did mention when she first started that she would take it and put in ten good years and that's what she did. Were you involved with any of the things that she helped to develop? JM: I've been on the University Capital Campaign Committee, so if raising money is part of it, yes. I am head of the committee for the College of Education even though I've retired. RL: Speaking of the College of Education, you would have been through a few deans there. JM: That's one way to put it, yes. When I came Dick Jones was the dean. As I said, he came in without a level playing field in many ways because there were two faculty members that thought they should have been the dean. That made it really hard. He did some things really well and some things less well, but it's true of all of us. There was finally a vote of no confidence and I think that Bob Smith decided it was probably time for him to go before there was a formal vote of no Page 22 of 35 confidence. It wasn't over anything dishonest or anything like that. There were just enough differences so he left. Then they hired Green, and he was the first African American dean on campus. Again, like any dean, he had his interests and did some things really well and some things not so. Jack Rasmussen was the next. He had been here as a faculty member so most of us had worked with him. He was a good teacher and he seemed to be a good administrator, so when he applied for the position we were interested. He was the dean in North Dakota at a university. We were happy to have him back. The known is always kind of nice and we knew what to expect. I think he's been an effective dean. I think he's had the respect of the faculty, he's good to work with, and he's a dependable person. RL: How long has he been here now? JM: I'm not sure. I think he's been here for maybe seven years. He's the senior dean on campus. RL: You were talking about his being supportive. Was there a difference in the level of support you got from each of those deans? JM: I had wonderful support from all of them, I can't complain at all. There was always money for me to present at conferences. Ray Reutzel, who was a professor at Utah State and I applied for the editorship of, The Reading Teacher, which is the premier journal of the International Reading Association and received the appointment. That was a five year thing and they came out and visited with the President, Provost and Dean to make sure that I would have the support I would need to do the job. They did the same at Utah State for Ray. I Page 23 of 35 had release time for it and I had financial support from International Reading. My dean could have said no. It was when Green was the dean. I guess Eisler must have been the provost and Paul was the president and they met with all of them to say, "Can she do this? Will you give her support and release time?" There was no question. It was a prestigious journal to begin with and it was nice that westerners were nominated and chosen to do this. I learned a great deal from that experience. Reading has been the thing that I've been most interested in, so that was a wonderful thing. RL: It's a basis for many things in education, isn't it? JM: I think it's the basis for learning when it comes down to it. I think for the youngsters who struggle it isn't just learning how to read, it's how to use literacy. In your position you know all about that. The other thing I've had a lot of support on for 28 years is running a reading and writing conference every summer. The State has given me some money and Weber has given me some money and support. This is the first summer that we haven't done it. We've brought to campus outstanding people in the field of reading and writing to do the conference. That has been a wonderful thing for our students and for our teachers in the field. Things like that I will miss terribly. I do miss them. RL: Were there other national programs that you were involved with that you got particularly good support for? JM: Yes there surely were. Of course, going to conferences is part of it and presenting at conferences takes support. I was on quite a few national Page 24 of 35 committees for reading and literacy and children's books. Those people tend to be a community that knows one another. For me, it was a broadening kind of thing. It gave me people I could call on to hire for my reading conference. Probably the thing that gave both Ray and me the most exposure was that editorship. Ray went on and served on the Board of Directors of International Reading. He has an endowed chair at Utah State. He's a good scholar and good teacher and all those kinds of things. RL: You've mentioned that you're retired, but you're still here on campus. JM: Yes, but I am coming to the end. I had a substantial grant from the State to run the level two reading endorsement classes. There are three of them. There's a research class, an internship and a professional development class. The audience for those classes consists of people that have a level one endorsement in reading and are aspiring to be reading coaches in the schools. The level one classes can be taught within the school districts. For a long time we taught some of them and I have to laugh because I still see my syllabi floating around being used in the schools by somebody else. Level two has to be taught through the universities. Weber held on to those, but the problem is that the size of the audience for the classes is not very predictable and often not very big. Weber State University serves Box Elder, Davis, Weber and a few from Ogden school districts. RL: Of course, we now have an information literacy requirement for graduation here and to have the local school district do away with all of the media specialists… Page 25 of 35 JM: It doesn't make a bit of sense. Particularly in a district where there are more needy children than any district along the Front. They need those people. They are wonderfully well-trained. They are superb teachers. RL: The Regents said, "We need this computer and information literacy." One of the things that we were finding was that they were coming to us from the high schools unprepared. One of my colleagues wrote in a letter to the newspaper about seeing students come in and they've already written the paper and then they do the research because they need three references to put with the paper. Something is not right. JM: Something is not right. RL: Interesting times in the Ogden School Districts. JM: They have been interesting times for a long time. I know they are dealing with a lot of things that are difficult. I had a friend who was an administrator and we were talking about second language. He said, "It isn't the second language that's the problem, it's the poverty that's the problem." There are a lot of needy children and they need excellent teachers. Those media people are excellent teachers. They're cutting out all the part-time reading coaches as well. There are 240 and if they have them for 30 hours they don't have to pay any benefits. The whole thing is disgusting as far as I'm concerned. RL: In terms of your time at Weber, it sounds like you've accomplished a lot in the 30 years that you've been here on campus. Are there things that you were involved with that didn't succeed? Page 26 of 35 JM: Well, who's going to say yes to that? I'm kidding. There are certainly things that were successful at different levels. Some of the things I look back and I wonder why I ever opened my mouth. RL: It's perfectly alright for you to talk about that because it was something that you were concerned about. Were there things that you wish you had done and weren't able to for financial reasons or maybe Weber couldn't get involved because it wasn't the right time and place? As far as the big picture, were there other things that you would have liked to have seen? JM: When I came to Weber, I still had three youngsters at home. I was pretty place bound. After that, I went through a divorce and my two boys were then grown and out of the house and my daughter was in college. I started late with my academic career. I stayed home until my youngest was seven and didn't go back to work. Then, I had to get a license to teach school. I was place bound for a number of years. I think had I done things earlier, I might have left Weber and had some other kinds of experiences. At the time, with my personal life, when it was time to do those sorts of things, it was late to do them. I loved Weber and quite frankly, I think, "Where would I have had the opportunities that Weber has given me?" I had never thought I planned my life particularly well if you want to know the truth. I've kind of fallen into things without as much planning as I might have done. When I finally decided to go back to school and to teach, the hook that really was there for me was that I was fascinated with how children learn to read. What is it that happens in our brains? In watching children who struggle, what is Page 27 of 35 the difference in how they look at the world or how they process everything from children who don't seem to struggle? Luckily, my children did not struggle, and I did not struggle. Having worked with youngsters in school who do struggle, I thought it would be tough if I worked with these kids in school and then had to go home and work with my own, but my children did wonderfully academically. I really liked Weber and with a university this size, you can make some differences. When I was in college and got this music degree I could have taught piano maybe, but I didn't know how to do anything. I didn't know how to type when I graduated from college. I went to Wright-MacMahon Secretarial School in Beverly Hills for a year and learned how to do all kinds of secretarial things. RL: Was this after you finished you bachelor's at Stanford? JM: Yes. That's how I happened to come home and work for Amalgamated Sugar and then for Security Corporation. I had wonderful jobs. RL: When you mentioned being an executive secretary, I was wondering if that position had required a Bachelor's degree. JM: Well, let me tell you some of the things I did for First Security. I worked for Willard Eccles and I wrote all the Board and Executive Board minutes for the corporation, although, I never went to a meeting. He did all the public relations and advertising for the corporation and I learned a lot. I probably would have gone on working for First Security, but I married and when my first baby was born, I didn't work again for another ten or fifteen years. When I came back to school, perhaps if I had been more thoughtful about what I really wanted to do, I might have done something other than education. I Page 28 of 35 don't know. My father was a physician. The summer between high school and college, I worked in the newborn nursery at the old Dee Hospital and just loved it. I wanted to go to nursing school. My father wouldn't hear of it. Those were the days. He said, "No, you're not going to go to nursing school. You have the wrong thumbs for the bed pans." So, I didn't do that. In college, I had developed a lot of other interests as well. I look back and think probably what I would have done in a different era would be to have gone to medical school. I was bright enough to and I think I would have really liked it. RL: The mentality then was that women in medicine were nurses. JM: They were odd ducks if they went to medical school. My father just couldn't see that for sour apples. He was a physician and he couldn't see this thing at all. Later on, we had a lot of talks about this whole thing and his outlook changed. I had one female friend in law school and a couple in business school. Most of them were in more traditional majors for women. I have a niece who graduated in law and my daughter is in architecture, both nontraditional women's fields. My generation was different. RL: Well, we have touched on a lot of different things. What about your time at Weber? Are there things that you might have done differently other than having gone somewhere else? I've seen a lot of people here on campus who leave and come back because this is a great place to be. JM: And I am not sure that I would have left. I liked the administrative experiences I had. I was department chair, and I directed the graduate program for 13 or 14 years. I had a lot of freedom on that because we developed a thesis system. Page 29 of 35 When I got here they were doing some little paper that was paper bound and we said, "No, this does not look like professional scholarly work." We did a lot with curriculum and all that was very satisfactory to me. The other thing I guess I could mention are civic kinds of things that have mattered to me. I was president of the Junior League before I ever came to Weber. I've been on the symphony board for a long time. I'm a Commissioner for Landmarks for Ogden City and I'm on the Heritage Board. Those things are interesting to me. I've been involved with the music department simply so I could return to my roots. I've had fun knowing the people in the music department and the students. I'm really quite busy. I think the thing that scared me most about retiring was, "What if I don't have anything to do?" Of course, I've been teaching classes, but I won't at the end of this semester because there's no money to do it, which makes me sad because I just loved my students. The reading coaches were the brightest of the bright. They were just wonderful. My connection with the school districts, particularly with the Weber and the Davis districts has been very satisfying and keeps your hand in to see what's happening out there. I will miss that. I still serve on the Board of the State Reading Association and I get to see all of these great people I've either had in school or known. They have moved ahead and have done wonderful things in their lives and I am proud of that. RL: That's wonderful. Sometimes you can go to a banquet and pick up lots of things and you walk away and you're still hungering for something and then there are other times when things fall into place and you can say that you were satisfied. Page 30 of 35 JM: I think that is absolutely true and I still see a number of my colleagues from Weber. One thing that was terrific about the Faculty Senate work was that I had the opportunity to meet people in all departments. When I arrived, I was shocked that there was so little communication between the College of Education, particularly Teacher Education, and across campus. It just didn't happen. Accreditation meant that it had to happen and working in the Senate allowed me opportunities to meet people across the campus that I never would have known. RL: I think with things like the Community Involvement Program and the Teaching and Learning Forum and all of the programs now for helping people develop online classes and so forth, people are interacting a lot more than previously. JM: Yes. I think they are too. Ruby, were you here when we did Writing Across the Curriculum? RL: I was. JM: That was a wonderful time for exactly what you're talking about. RL: It brought people together from different parts of the campus and took you someplace and you sat down and you could exchange ideas for how to teach or how to develop particular processes and so forth. It was a good program. I think Teaching and Learning came from that because Lee McKenzie was the one who developed that. JM: She was a lovely lady. That was a tragic kind of thing. RL: It was. When you said that you did Teaching and Learning Forum for a year, I wondered whether that might have been about the time that Lee had to leave. Page 31 of 35 JM: I can't remember what the circumstances were, but suddenly we didn't have a director and Teaching and Learning fell on the Faculty Senate. We were doing whatever we were doing to find someone to head it up as I remember. It was an eye opener to me. I'd served on it at one time or another before that, so it wasn't completely new or anything. RL: It was a great program, and I think Lee did a great job establishing it. JM: She did. I remember that one of the faculty members who was perhaps the most changed and it was most surprising was a fellow that was in accountancy. He used it widely in his accountancy classes. You would think it would have been history or English, but I'll never forget that. He was such a proponent of the whole thing. I thought that was a really good program. I liked all of the things that mixed us up with other disciplines. I thought it really mattered. RL: I think there's more of that kind of thing happening now and it can only strengthen the college. JM: Absolutely. I think that this community outreach is a tremendous thing. I am really curious to see how this is going to go downtown because I guess those spaces are about completed on Washington. Is it going to be Continuing Education classes or Adult Education? I have no idea what's going to go in there, do you? RL: I don't. JM: It's wonderful space. I thought, "Good." Remember when we were in the basement of the mall? Page 32 of 35 RL: Yes. I don't know if you were involved or remember in the very early nineties, before we had the whole Community Involvement Program, we had some of our athletes working at the Lewis School helping children with teaching. JM: I do remember that. There was faculty sending their students out to look at things. In Education, we'd send them out because they've got to be in the schools. Other disciplines were doing a lot of things as well. RL: I like it here. JM: I don't blame you. I like it here too. I think it's a good setting for students. There are more and more kinds of things to engage the students. I liked the programs where they put classes together in a cohort for new freshman. Those kinds of things have been successful. They've helped kids not to get lost and provided a way for them to become connected with other students, particularly if they're students that just commute. I'm happy to see the new dorms because I think it's more attractive to live on campus than ever before. I think that's good. We have a lot of administrators and faculty that have done good things to promote what's happening on our campus. It's a beautiful campus and when I was walking over here today I thought, "What a pretty time of year with the stream and the pond and the beautiful trees and bushes." It's a beautiful campus. RL: My brother was trying to explain to someone that I lived in an area where every place you look is a postcard. JM: What a compliment. RL: Then he said, "No, come to think of it, she lives in a postcard." Page 33 of 35 It sounds as though your years here have been good and I'm glad to hear it. Certainly, if you think of things later that you would have liked to have told us about, please get in touch. I want to thank you for taking the time to do this. JM: You're welcome. It's been my pleasure. RL: It's been a good program for us and it's good when we get someone like you who's been involved across the board and can help to build that picture of what Weber State has been over the years. JM: Don't you feel it has come a great, far distance in terms of sophistication? RL: Absolutely. JM: I think that it's become more scholarly. RL: It's certainly not Harrison High any longer, is it? JM: It surely is not. One of the things that I think has made a difference is that the standards for tenure have changed. That was another thing we did in those years in making Weber a more scholarly university—higher demands. RL: We've been able to maintain some of the earlier things, regardless. JM: For teaching there is no question about it. The standards for hiring people have become more comparative with other universities. When University of Utah or Utah State complains about Weber I have to laugh because I think of the numbers of faculty that were trained in those two institutions and if there's something wrong with this then it's their fault, not ours. RL: We keep showing up on more and more national lists and I think partly it's because of people like you. Page 34 of 35 JM: Well, thank you, that is a compliment. As I say, like you, I have not regretted my years at Weber. I've been proud of them. RL: Thank you for being with us today. JM: You're welcome. Page 35 of 35

Issue 70.4 of the Review for Religious, 2011. ; Unique Approaches Building Community Focus on Joseph Potpourri quarterly 70.4 2011 Review for Religious fosters dialogue with God, dialogue with ourselves, and dialogue with one another about the holiness we try to live according to charisms of Catholic religious life. As Pope Paul Vl said, our way of being church is today the way of dialogue. Review for Religious (ISSN 0034-639X) is published quarterly at Saint Louis University by the Jesuits of the Missouri Province. Editorial Office: 3601 Lindell Boulevard ¯ St. Louis, Missouri 63108-3393 PHONE: 314-633o4610 ¯ FAX: 314-633-4611 EMAIL: reviewrfr@gmail.com ¯WEBSITE: www.reviewforreligious.org Manuscripts, books for review, and correspondence with the editor: Review for Religious ¯ 3601 Lindell Boulevard ¯ St. Louis, MO 63108-3393 POSTMASTER Send address changes to Review for Religious o P.O. Box 6070 ° Duluth, MN 55806. PHONE: 877-467-8687 ¯ FAX: 218-740-6437 ¯ EMAIL: fulfill@superfill.co~n Periodical postage paid at St. Louis, Missouri, and additional mailing offices. ©2011 Review for Religious Permission is herewith granted to copy any material (articles, poems, reviews) contained in this issue of Review for Religious for personal 6r internal use, or for the personal or internal use of specific library clients within the limits outlined in Sections 107 and/or 108 of the United States Copyright Law. All copies made under this permission must bear notice of the source, date, and copyright owner on the first page. This permission is NOT extended to copying for commercial distribution, advertising, institutional promotion, or for the creation of new collective works or anthologies. Such permission will only be considered on written application to the Editor, Review for Religious. ~ gournal of Catholic Spirirualit)j Celebrating 70 Years Editor Associate Editor Book Review Editor Scripture Scope Editorial Staff Michael G. Harter SJ Garth L. Hallett SJ RosemaryJermann Eugene Hensell OSB Mary Ann Foppe Tracy Gramm .Judy Sharp Advisory Board Paul Coutinho SJ Martin Erspamer OSB Margaret Guider OSF Kathleen Hughes RSCJ Louis and Angela Menard Bishop Terry Steib SVD QUARTERLY 70.4 2011 contents 340 prisms Prisms 342 364 .377 unique approaches A Tale of Two Scandals: Cornelia Connelly as Nouvelle H~loi'se Barbara Newman tells the remarkably similar stories of two married women who lived six centuries apart, became nuns and then abbesses only through the instigation of their husbands, suffered considerably, and faced numerous canonical difficulties in the founding of their orders. building community The Hum of Being: " Spirituality for Leadership Beatrice M. Eichten OSF describes the ministry of community leadership as a pilgrimage and explores the various spiritual realizations that flow from it--such as the openness to Spirit that comes through moments of emptiness and detachment, and the gifts of loving and being loved. Architecture and Religious Life Thomas A. Krosnicki SVD discusses the impact that the architectural design of buildings--in particular community residences--can have to the benefit of religious life and those they touch by their life and ministry. Review for Religious 386 404 408 .422 426 focus on Joseph Be Saints: Pathway to a Holy Life Joel Giallanza CSC gathers wisdom from St. Andr~ Bessette, whose name is forever linked to that of St. Joseph because of their obvious similarities. Both were simple laborers through whom God chose to do extraordinary things; both knew poverty and suffering; both experienced exile. Above all, both point out a pathway to holiness because they remained faithful to whatever God asked of them. St. Joseph in Focus: Husband of Mary and Guardian of Jesus John M. Samaha SM reminds us why we honor St. Joseph by giving us a simple portrait of the quiet, often overlooked member of the Holy Family. potpourri Lighting Our Modern Spirit: Pope John Paul II's Luminous Mysteries Carey Ellen Walsh explores the theology and the spiritual gift of John Paul II's meditation on the rosary in his apostolic letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae. She focuses on how one of John Paul II's most intimate reflections tends to the hunger in our souls. Multiple Sclerosis: A Gift Marian D. Frantz IHM reflects on how she has coped with multiple sclerosis and, in spite of the physical challenges and fears that accompany it, has come to understand it as a gift. Cremation: A Path to Protect Mother Earth Brian Jordan OFM calls us to rethink our attitudes and practices about how we remember our loved ones through burial or cremation and to develop an attitude of reverence for "Holy Mother Earth" in the process. departments 433 Scripture Scope: The Bible and the Liturgy 438 Book Reviews 444 Indexes 70.4 2011 prisms Erone intense week at the end of the summer, the population of Madrid swelled by more than one million souls. Crowds of young men and women came with the devotion of pil-grims; they participated in workshops and service projects; they baked in the heat, endured a rain-soaked and windswept prayer vigil, and coped with the chaos resulting from poor organization. They sang and prayed together, and blogged about their experiences all over the Internet. Such enthusiasm. Such energy. It all brought back memories of an earlier World Youth Day when I accompanied a group of Jesuit novices to Toronto in 2002. We, too, gath-ered with hopes and dreams, coped with crowds and long waits for something to eat. We, too, spent a restless night on the hard ground soaked through by a cold rain waiting for the final Mass celebrated by the pope. Drenched to the bone, I kept asking myself "What am I doing here?" But the enthusiastic singing of the young people drowned out the question. But I must be realistic. M}- perspective is not that of a young pilgrim. I just sent out invitations for a celebration of my golden Jubilee as a Jesuit. My novitiate classmates and others celebrating Review for Religious anniversaries of entrance and ordination (25, 50, 60, and 70 years of presence and service) are planning on celebrat-ing because we have much to celebrate. We have worked and taught, and borne the heat of the day in many different contexts. But as I look back on 50 years of religious life, I must admit that I have asked more than once "What am I doing here?" Sometimes the question arises because I feel too insignificant to make a difference. More often the ques-tion arises from a sense of wonder and awe about the ways God has chosen to work through me. My choice to enter religious life was well intentioned, but made with total naivet& The ministry for which I pre-pared myself (teaching high school) never materialized. The skills I learned in the process, however, equipped me to serve as an administrator, a forinator, and an editor. Through the years and with much prayer, I have tried to make myself available to be sent where I can best be used. I am privileged once again to live with our young men in formation. Their energy can wear me out, but their enthusiasm is contagious. They show that the church is ever young, ever new, always ready to grow in experience and wisdom. The seeds of faith are sprouting anew in many places. And in other pl~ces fields that have been harvested any number of times still produce with God's grace. The young pilgrims have now returned home from Madrid and are back in school or settling into their regular routines. But the memories and graces they carry with them will make their lives anything but routine. And as those of us further along the age continuum continue our trust walk with the One who has always accompanied us, we take to heart the prayer with which Benedict sent forth the young people from Madrid: "May no adversity paralyze you. Be afraid neither of the world, nor of the future, nor of your weakness." 341 Michael G. Harter SJ 70.4 2011 BARBARA NEWMAN A Tale of Two Scandals: Cornelia Connelly as Nouvelle Hdlo~se unique approaches 342 This is a tale of two scandals. It is a story of two women who courageously defied con-vention, yet submitted tragically and without reserve to the men they loved. It is a story of two ambitious and charismatic men, whose meteoric rise in the church was surpassed only by the suddenness of their fall. It is a story of two priests married to nuns--and not only nuns, but the founders of congregations-- who remained indelibly married in the public eye. From Romanesque France to Victorian England, so much had changed yet so much remained the same, especially where female subordination was concerned. So, finally, this is a story about the longue durde in Catholic attitudes to marriage, gender, and women's religious life. Barbara Newman is professor of English, Religion, and Classics at Northwestern University. Her address is Northwestern University; University Hall 215; 1897 Sheridan Rd.; Evanston, IL 60208. Reviev2 for Religious My first, more familiar narrative concerns a Frenchwoman born around 1100. Heloise, of high though illegitimate birth, received a superb educa-tion at the convent of Argenteuil. Raised by her uncle Fulbert, she was granted the rare privilege of private lessons with a famous philosopher, Peter Abelard, who was teaching in Paris. We all know what happened next: Abelard and his pupil fell in love. Their steamy affair ended in Heloise's pregnancy, Fulbert's horrified rage, a clandestine marriage, Heloise's rash denial of the union, and Abelard's castration at the hands of Fulbert's hit men. Given the fame of both lovers, the end of their :affair was a cause cglkbre. Finding the pity of his stu-dents even harder to bear than the scorn of his ene-mies, Abelard became a monk at Saint-Denis, though not before compelling a reluctant but obedient Heloise to take the veil at Argenteuil. Their son Astralabe was left with Abelard's sister on a farm in Brittany.~ But the lovers' conversion to religious life fueled more scandals. Abelard, who did not suffer fools gladly, had a gift for making enemies. At Saint-Denis, his 'historical research threatened to deconstruct the monks' patron saint, who also happened to be the patron of the French monarchy. This controversy led to cries of treason and landed Abelard in such trouble that he had to flee by night. Next he ~tried the vocation of hermit, :for which he was totally ufisuited, and soon wound up teaching again at a new foundation he called the Paraclete. Here too he got in trouble, partly because his ever-vigilant enemies objected to his oratory's dedication. In .the meantime, Abelard was charged with heresy at the Council of Soissons and forced in 1121 to burn his book on the Trinity with his own hands. Eventually he managed to be named abbot of the backwater monastery of Saint- 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals 344 Gildas, in his native Brittany, but fared no better there. By his own account, his monks tried to kill him with a poisoned chalice. Heloise too was dogged by scandal. Despite her past, she was elected prioress of Argenteuil. But in 1129 the powerful Suger--abbot of Saint-Denis and no friend to Abelard--had Heloise and her nuns evicted on charges of immorality. These charges may or may not have car-ried a grain of truth. It is possible that Heloise's regime was lax, though it is certain that Suger had his eye on the nuns' property; and he mobilized the king, the bish-ops, and the papal legate to enforce his takeover.2 At this juncture Abelard reentered the picture, offering the nuns his now-vacant oratory of the Paraclete. Gossip contin-ued to buzz: if Abelard visited, detractors claimed that he could not live without his mistress, while if he stayed away, they charged that he had abandoned his wife. A few years later, when he published his autobiography, Heloise responded with impassioned fury, lambasting his neglect at the same time that she avowed her undimin-ished desire. But despite the stormy beginning of their correspondence, the two eventually made peace. Abelard endorsed Heloise's teaching role and warmly praised her learning. At her request he wrote numerous works for her nuns.3 Not least, he authored a rule for the Paraclete, although it seems not to have been observed and signifi-cantly contradicts Heloise's own rule--a point' to which I shall return. When Abelard was again condemned for heresy in 1140, by an even more blatantly rigged council, it was Heloise who secured proof of his absolution and arranged for his burial, soon afterward, at the Paraclete. Surviving him by twenty years, she was.buried at his side. My second narrative belongs to the nineteenth cen-tury. Cornelia Peacock, born to an elite Philadelphia family in 1809, lost her parents in childhood.4 Raised by an aunt who gave her a superb private education, at 22 she married a clergyman, Pierce Connelly. The Connellys moved in 1831 to Natchez, Mississippi, where Pierce had been named rector of an Episcopal parish. At the birth of their son Mercer, his godfather gave Cornelia a slave as a christening present.5 Though Pierce was well-liked in his parish, the honeymoon did not last. Caught up in a wave of anti-Catholic senti-ment sweeping the nation, he decided to resist it and better inform himself, with the surprising result that he felt called to convert. Cornelia, though shocked at first, loyally followed. As she wrote to her sister, "against my prejudices and in spite of the horrors which I have always nurtured for the Catholic faith, I am ready at once to submit to whatever my loved husband believes to be the path of duty.''6 In fact, after Pierce resigned his parish and delivered his farewell sermon, Cornelia was the first to be received as a Roman Catholic. Pierce waited to make his abjuration in Rome itself, on Palm Sunday 1836, with pomp and ceremony. The Connellys soon became the darlings of the British recusant aris-tocracy in Rome, where they remained until a finan-cial crisis forced them to return home and look for work. Pierce found a teaching post at a Jesuit school in Louisiana; Cornelia joined him as a music teacher. By now the couple had four children, but one daughter died in infancy and their two-year-old son met with a tragic accident. Fearing that her happiness was too great, the devout Cornelia had asked God to demand some sacrifice of her. Only a day later the little boy, playing with the dog, tumbled into a vat of boiling syrup.7 After two days and nights of agony, he died in his mother's arms. 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals But this was only the first of Cornelia's sorrows. Soon afterward, while she was pregnant with their fifth and last child, Pierce announced that he had discerned a call to the Catholic priesthood. This time Cornelia did resist, but as soon as she realized how serious her husband was, she released him, which entailed her own consent to a monastic vocation. Returning to Rome, the couple had a private audience with Pope Gregory xvI, and Pierce was ordained with surprising speed in 1845. As for Cornelia, she became a postulant at the Sacred Heart convent of Trinit~ dei Monti, bringing her two youngest children with her. But she was not destined to take vows there. In 1846 Bishop Nicholas Wiseman, soon to become Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster, called Cornelia to England, where he wished her to found an order of nuns to educate English Catholic girls. Thus, before the end of her novitiate, the 3 7-year-old Cornelia Connelly, American wife and mother of three, became--not of her own accord, but by the deci-sions of her husband and her bishop--the first English monastic foundress in two hundred years. At this point the Connelly saga becomes so tumultu-ous that I can give only the barest summary. Cornelia's Society of the Holy Child Jesus (SHCJ) suffered more than its share of growing pains--lack of resources, litigation over property, internal discord, hostile chap-lains, and increasing strain between Cornelia and her superior, Cardinal Wiseman. These troubles were compounded by the "no Popery" agitation of a ,public deeply-fearful of Catholic emancipation. Mat Cornelia had least expected, however, was Pierce's rapid disil-lusionment with his new faith. Unsuccessftil in his bids for advancement in the church, ihe missed his wife and resented Wiseman's ban :on conjugal visits. So the frus- Review for Religious trated Pierce made two hostile, if contradictory, moves in quick succession. First, he wrote a spurious rule for Cornelia's order, which he circulated in Rome without her knowledge. Second, he pulled the children out of their schools and took 'them to Italy as hostages, with a new demand that Cornelia renounce her vows and return to him. Heartbroken but determined, she refused. The apostate Pierce thereupon sued his former wife in the Court of Arches for restitu-tion of his conjugal rights.8 The case of Connelly v. Connelly dragged on from 1849 to 1851, much to the glee of journalists.9 In 1850 a judge ruled in Pierce's favor, declaring that a papal~decree of separation had no force in England and leaving Cornelia to face imprisonment or a . forced return to her husband. While appealing to the Privy Council, she kept a suit of secular clothes in her cell at all times in case she had to flee the realm. Pierce meanwhile scandalized British Catholics with his apos-tasy, even seeking refuge for a time with the fanati-cally anti-Catholic Henry Drummond, a wealthy peer who led an apocalyptic sect. Eventually he returned to Italy, where he spent the rest of his life writing anti- Catholic tracts and serving as an Episcopal minister in Florence. Cornelia won her appeal on a technicality, but she never saw her eldest son again, for Mercer died at twenty of yellow fever. The younger children, Before~ the end of her novitiate, Cornelia Connelly, American wife and mother of three, became the first English monastic foundress in two hundred years. 347 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandal~ Adeline and Frank, remained with their father in Italy. He managed to estrange them permanently from their mother, returning her letters unopened. But in spite of all this, the Society of the Holy Child Jesus flour-ished. At Cornelia's death in 1879 it had six convents and schools in England, three in America, and one in France.~° Amazingly, Cornelia Connelly's case for saint-hood was opened in 1959, and in 1992 she was declared Venerable--the first step toward canonization. The Positio or formal presentation of her case is the first in history to be written by a woman.~ Since no one has ever proposed Heloise for saint-hood, except in the cult of romantic love, why do I call Cornelia Connelly a nouvelle Hgloi'se? I suggest this com-parison to probe more deeply into the case of a woman who filled the roles of wife, mother, nun, and abbess, not in succession but in conflict. Legions of women have become religiously active in widowhood, but few if any have faced down so public a scandal caused by living husbands, while simultaneously trying to establish their monastic authority. In the rest of this article, I will compare Cornelia's struggles with Heloise's apropos of three issues: sexuality, motherhood, and the authority of an abbess. In the France of the trouvOres, one could speak of sex more freely than in Queen Victoria's Britain, but Heloise would have been scandalous in any age. To dis-suade Abelard from their ill-starred marriage, she made a case for free love, claiming that .she would rather be called his mistress'(arnica) than his wife--and even if Augustus, ruler of the world, had asked her to be his empress, she would prefer to be Abelard's whore (scortum)--a word she chose deliberately for its shock value.~2 In Heloise's eyes, the true prostitute was the Review for Religious respectable wife who married not for love, but for security and money. As if these ideas were not scandal-ous enough, after ten years as a nun she confessed that she still felt sexual yearnings, even during Mass, and declared that she could never forgive God for Abelard's castration.13 This was no mere private avowal, but a rhe-torical performance before an imagined if not actual public. Medieval letters were never truly "private," and contemporary documents show that Heloise's arguments were well known in French clerical circles.14 Romantics (including my younger self) have often been dismayed with Abelard for refusing to respond in kind.15 But how could he? Neither his castration nor the couple's vows were reversible, so Heloise had either to find a way of coping or face a lifetime of misery, ending in her damnation. Abelard thus faced the.unenviable task of cajoling her to love Christ, her new Bridegroom, in his stead. If his tactics seem ham-fisted to our age, in his own they were supremely pragmatic. When Heloise said that she would gladly follow Abelard to hell; that her "heart was never my own, but was always with you"; that in every decision she had sought to please him, rather than God--it was not from marital duty that she spoke.16 A self-consciously clas-sical lover, she even took the nun's veil with the cry of a pagan heroine on her lips.17 In Cornelia Connelly we see nothing of the. sort. If she too ended by trans-gressing her culture's cherished feminine ideals, it was not by her choice. Yet in displaying obedience to her beloved, she vied with Heloise. To please Pierce, she braved her family's disapproval; left home for the dis-tant, culturally alien South; abjured her Protestant faith (a drastic step in the 1830s); accepted a life of exile; and finally made the supreme sacrifice of her marriage itself, 349 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals Where Heloise saw ,oppositiOn-; Cornelia saw con]'un ction:, L, vowing perpetual chastity so that Pierce could be ordained. But where Heloise saw opposition--she could obey either God's will or Abelard's, but not both-- Cornelia saw conjunction. As a dutiful Victorian wife, she followed the principle of Milton's Eve: "he for God only, she for God in him." In the end, Cornelia became a far more committed Catholic than the vain and shallow Pierce. Yet she would never have become one at all with, out the conviction that God was guiding her through her husband's will. As she wrote to her sister at the time, Pierce was "all that is estimable and far above what your sister ever deserved or looked for in her husband. It is not for me to praise him, but daily do I thank God for having so blessed me.''18 In entering religious life, both women faced the extraordinary challenge of renouncing their husbands' love at their husbands' bidding. When Heloise pro-claimed her immortal longing, Abelard commanded her to desire him no more, but rather the God who had castrated him. Cornelia confronted the same demand, except that Pierce's self-castration in will alone did not last. So in the end, having fallen genuinely in love with Christ, she had to fight her ex-husband in court to preserve a separation she had never wanted in the first place. Interestingly, it was Heloise who fared better in the court of public opinion. Abelard's friends and even some of his enemies sympathized with her, while later humanists like Jean de Meun and Petrarch admired her eloquence and uncompromising idealism29 Review for Religious Cornelia, on the other hand, fell afoul of both Catholic and Protestant sentiment. The English Catholic hier-archy, impoverished and terribly vulnerable, resented the scandal and expense of "Connelly v. Connelly." As for the Protestant majority, it eagerly believed Pierce's lies and blamed Cornelia for destroying her family. Caught between two patriarchies, faced with incompat-ible demands from husband and bishop, she could win neither public vindication nor private comfort. Her anguish is clearest--and the historical distance greatest--with respect to motherhood. We do not know what it cost Heloise to leave the infant Astralabe in Brittany, but upper-class women of her day often had their children fostered elsewhere, and it was not unusual for widowed mothers to enter monasteries. Moreover, we have good evidence that Heloise never envisaged moth-erhood as a career path. Before her marriage, she had even proposed a novel, feminist version of the old argu-ment that a philosopher should not wed. As she put it, "what husband could ever concentrate on philosophy or scripture and still put up with babies howling. ? What wife could stand the endless mess of children?''2° Later, in her letters of complaint, she never mentions her son's absence among her sorrows. Her only reference to him comes in a letter written after Abelard's death, asking the abbot of Cluny to find the young man a prebend.21 We do not know for certain what became of Astralabe,22 nor did contemporaries care, for motherhood in the twelfth century was not an admired vocation. St. Jerome, often quoted by Abelard and Heloise, had zealously praised mothers who steeled themselves against their children's cries to "become virile" and serve God alone:23 Seven centuries later, wives were no less subordinate to husbands, but the ideal of motherhood had changed 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals utterly. Hence nothing hurt Cornelia's reputation more than the belief, fostered by Pierce, that she had willfully abandoned her children. An anti-Catholic pamphlet in 1853 put it this way: "When Rome once depraves the heart, or bows the will, . . . the fountain of all natural affection has been, by priestly art, so dried up within her--as that she can forget her children whom she has borne, as well as the husband whom she has sworn, before God, to obey.''24 But Cornelia had never con-sented to Pierce's abduction of their children. As soon as she realized that he was using them to blackmail her, however, she swore a solemn vow: "In union with my crucified Lord and by His most precious blood, in ado-ration satisfaction thanksgiving and petition, I, Cornelia, vow to have no future intercourse with my children and their Father beyond what is for the greater Glory of God and His manifest will, known through my direc-tor.'' 2s A few letters to relatives reveal the agony this cost her. In 1854 she wrote to her brother that, initially, "my dear children were as much under my eyes as if I had not left the world till their father broke his word and his promises and stole them away from me. may God forgive him.''26 Four years later she lamented, "Poor dar-lings! I little thought of their having to suffer in this way, while I can do nothing to help them except by prayer."27 Under English law the children belonged to their father, so there was literally nothing Cornelia could do. In any case the church, in stark contrast with secular norms, still preserved its medieval legacy of valuing marital renunciation as the high road to perfection?8 The motif of the "maternal martyr" occurs so often in medieval hagiography that, if anyone had suggested sainthood for Heloise, her separation from Astralabe might actually have bolstered the case.29 Today, how- Review for Religious ever, the fate of the Connelly children poses a major obstacle to Cornelia's cause. It does not help that all three apostasized, though her daughter returned to the Catholic fold after both parents died. Cornelia's pro-moters., must therefore show that she bore the loss of her children as a cross, but--this is the key point--not a cho-sen cross.3° The postulator of her cause did try to revive the maternal martyr topos, citing Jeanne de Chantal as an exemplary saint who demonstrated "heroic virtue" by stepping over her son's protesting body as she departed for the cloister.3~ But most of Cornelia's advocates have shied away from this theme. Her biographers instead link her devotions to the Holy Child Jesus and to Mary, Mother of Sorrows, with her son's tragic death. This dimension of her spiritual life was incomparably deep-ened by the loss of her other children, though her work as a pioneer in girls' education compensated in some degree for the sadness of her own motherhood.32 Finally, I turn to the less sensational domain of reli-gious rules, which define a nun's mission and daily life, because both foundresses had to cope with problem-atic rules composed for them by their former husbands. Heloise had explicitly asked Abelard to create a rule, writing deferentially that "you, through God, are the planter of our congregation, and you, with God, should be the guide of our religious life.''33 Abelard complied, though the lengthy document he produced is an eclectic farrago of the Benedictine Rule, the desert fathers, pas-sages from Jerome, Augustine, and .Gregory the Great, and a few provisions specific to Heloise.34 Differences between this text and her own, more practical rule prolonged an old controversy over the authenticity of Heloise's letters.35 Some of the discrepancies concern fairly small matters, but the most important involve 70.4 2011 Newman * A Tale of Two Scandals lines of authority. On this subject the two rules cannot be reconciled.36 Abelard was profoundly conflicted about gender. Like every cleric of his age, he could toss off slight-ing remarks about the "weaker sex" and denounce abbesses who presumed to govern their nuns--or even monks--without male superiors. Yet in his treatise on the dignity of nuns, he pro-duced the most significant "pro-feminine" tract of the era.37 Some scholars have discerned a gradual con-version to feminism where others see only unresolved tension, but in any case, "~ Abelard's rule for Heloise is so ambivalent as to be unworkable.38 One reason is that he envisages a double community of monks and nuns, an arrangement that was common elsewhere but never established at the Paraclete. On the one hand, the whole community should have a male head or pro-vost, but on the other, both monks and nuns should profess obedience to the female head. Abelard calls her not "abbess" but "deaconess," an exotic early Christian term. He compares the deaconess to a queen and the provost to her steward, who fulfills his lady's will in all things--save that he "declines in what may do her harm.''39 It is hard to see how such an arrangement could have worked in practice. As for Heloise, she might have been happy enough with Abelard himself as her superior. But Abelard was still the abbot of Saint-Gildas, and if he should pre-decease her--which he did--the authority could revert Abelard's rule for Helbis e: is so ambivalent as to ,- be unworkable,, Reviww for Religious to her old enemy Suger.4° So in fact, the Paraclete had no provost. Heloise styled herself abbess, a more pres-tigious title than "deaconess," and exercised the nor-mal authority of that role. Given Abelard's peripatetic life, his reputation for heresy, and his disastrous failure at Saint-Gildas, the Paraclete undoubtedly flourished under her leadership as it could never have done under his. In fact, despite her unwilling entrance into religious life, Heloise proved highly successful as both monastic reformer and administrator. Before her death in 1163, six daughter houses had been founded or attached to the Paraclete, and its property holdings were vast.41 In addi-tion to glowing letters of praise from contemporaries, the popularity of the name "Heloise" in the next gen-eration testifies to the esteem in which she was held.42 Despite the troubles Abelard and Heloise faced in reinventing their relationship, both had a deep integ-rity. Abelard could be intransigent, but he did not lie, and Heloise's gift for placating superiors equaled his for antagonizing them. Thus she was able to attain the sup-port she needed from popes, bishops, lay patrons, and powerful abbots. Cornelia, to her cost, lacked these advantages. On the one hand, she had to endure Pierce's outright treachery, and on the other, a long series of conflicts marred her relations with hierarchs. Less than two years after she founded the first Holy Child convent at Derby, Pierce circulated a rule of his own composi-tion in Rome, prefaced by a claim that "the good Lord had long inspired in [him] the desire to found a little Congregation, with the help of a holy person well known to me and quite obedient (bien docile) to me.''43 But this was far from the case. When she learned of his act several months later, she sent off an indignant protest disavowing any changes he had made to her rule. Nevertheless, the 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals spurious text created so much confusion that at Cornelia's death, her own rule was still not approved. A year later, Pierce was claiming that the Derby convent was "worse than . . . a brothel," hence his first duty was "to rescue my blessed wife from the hands of devils.''44 With a lethal combination of lawsuits, apostasy, anti-Catholic propa-ganda, and his fraudulent rule, Pierce had made it nearly impossible for Cornelia to succeed in the vocation to which his own choice had driven her. It did not help that she and Cardinal Wiseman had a falling-out. Concerned that the Connelly scandal was making the church a laughingstock, Wiseman felt a need for rest and proposed that one wing of Cornelia's new convent in Sussex be converted to a seaside residence for his own use. Fearful of yet more scandal, Cornelia said no, infuriating her old ally. Hence Wiseman refused to support her pleas in Rome, where the authorities stud-ied both Cornelia's and Pierce's rules for years without action, still not realizing why they differed. The English bishops meanwhile dragged their feet, refusing to let the Holy Child nuns hold a general chapter to elect superi-ors. Wiseman insisted that the subsidiary houses should be canonically separate, rather than subject to the mother house4S--a disempowering move that Heloise, in her day, had managed to resist. The final blow came in 1874 when Bishop Danell of Southwark, Cornelia's immediate supe-rior, presented the nuns with a third rule that he himself had written, imposing a hopelessly complex system of governance. Without warning, he insisted that they set their rule aside and observe his for a "trial period" of three years.46 At the end of this time they begged Danell to restore their old rule--beginning with the youngest nun, who declared, "My Lord, it seems to me that the new Rule has been drawn up to correct abuses which Review for Religious never existed, and it does not lead us to love and obey our Superiors.''47 All agreed except Cornelia, who remained stonily silent in humility--or despair. But Danell refused their plea and imposed another three-year trial period, at the end of which the foundress died, her life and work in a shambles. It was not until Pierce's death four years later that Cornelia's rule could again be considered in Rome. Ten years after that, in 1893, it was approved in its original, unaltered form.4s To conclude, then--was Cornelia Connelly a nouvelle Hdloise? The real Heloise, who so vividly imagined her-self as a tragic heroine, turns out to have led a less tragic life than Cornelia. Successful abbess though she was, no churchman could call Heloise a saint. Not only did she defend illicit love and confess to religious hypocrisy, but by the standards that count, she didn't suffer enough-- or at least, not for the right reasons. Though she por-trayed herself as a martyr of love, she recovered from a devastating crisis to be reconciled with her beloved, win the esteem and admiration of her peers, and leave a lasting monastic legacy. But Cornelia--or should I say, the Venerable Cornelia--attained martyrdom on three fronts. As I have shown, she perfecdy fulfilled the medieval type of the maternal martyr, suffering the loss of five children through no fault of her own--three to premature death and three to her husband's perfidy, if we count Mercer twice. We can also call her a "mar-tyr of marriage," like other medieval saints who suf-fered at the hands of brutish husbands. The Connellys might have lived happily ever after if they had remained Protestant--but Pierce's short-lived infatuation with the Catholic Church decreed otherwise. Having first prod-ded his wife toward conversion, he would soon become her relentless persecutor, goading her toward sainthood. 70.4 2011 Newman * A Tale of Two Scandals Finally, Cornelia can be seen as a martyr of the church itself, having suffered nearly as much at the hands of bishops as of her husband. Admittedly, I have had to sim-plify her long, complicated tale. A full and fair account would not gloss over the abrasive side of her character-- or the odd moments of silence where resistance might have been more apt. It would also dwell on the unique difficulties attending the restoration of Catholic reli-gious life in Protestant England.49 Nonetheless, it seems strange that the defiant Heloise won more clerical favor in the twelfth century than the submissive Cornelia in the nineteenth. For twenty-five years after her death, her name remained under a cloud even among her nuns, who felt that the Society's goals were best served by silenc-ing their founder's scandalous memory,s° Returning to the longue durge, however, persecution has shadowed the church's most celebrated reformers; I need only mention Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, and Ignatius Loyola. If not a sine qua non for sainthood, it certainly helps. After all, Cornelia's long-suffering precursor in the sev-enteenth century, the Yorkshire foundress Mary Ward, was declared Venerable only a year ago. In each case, it remains to be seen if time, perseverance, and changing attitudes toward women will finally smooth the path from scandal to sanctity. Notes ~ These events are known to us from Abelard's autobiogra-phy, Historia calamitatum, and his subsequent exchange of let-ters with Heloise. I have cited these from the new translation by William Levitan, Abelard and Heloise: The Letters and Other Writings (Indianapolis: Hackett, 2007). ~ M.T. Clanchy, Abelard: A Medieval Life (Oxford: Blackwell, 1997), p. 152. 3 The treatise on the dignity of nuns is Abelard's "Sixth Letter" Review for Religious , in Levitan, pp. 127-69. For his hymns see Joseph Sz6v~rffy, ed., Peter Abelard's Hymnarius Paraclitensis, 2 vols. (Albany, NY: Classical Folia Editions, 1975); a few are translated in Levitan. The Problemata Heloissae (Heloise's questions on Scripture, with Abelard's replies) can be found in J.-P. Migne, ed., Patrologia.Latina 178: 677-730, and his Expositio in Hexaemeron (a Genesis commentary) in PL 178: 731-84. For the sermons see Paola De Santis, ed., I sermoni di Abelardo per le monache del Paracleto (Leuven: Leuven University Press, 2002). 4 There are now eight biographies of Cornelia Connelly, all but one by members of her Society. I have used the only account by a laywoman: Juliana Wadham, The Case of Cornelia Connelly (New York: Pantheon, 1'957), and Radegunde Flaxman SHCJ, A Woman Styled Bold: The Life of Cornelia Connelly, 1809-1879 (London: Darton, Longrnan and Todd, 1991). I have also consulted an excellent biog-raphy of her husband by D. G. Paz, The Priesthoods and Apostasies of Pierce Connelly: A Study of Victorian Conversion and Anticatholicism (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen, 1986). For a novelistic account see Sheila Kaye-Smith, Quartet in Heaven (New York: Harper & Bros., 1952), pp. 57-122. s Flaxman, A Woman Styled Bold, p. 18. 6 Cornelia Connelly to Adeline Duval, letter of 17 Oct. 1835, cited in Mother Ursula Blake et al., Positio: Documentary Study for the Canonization Process of the Servant of God Cornelia Connelly (nge Peacock), 1809-1879, 3 vols. (Rome: Sacred Congregation for the Causes of Saints, 1983), I: 79. 7 Flaxman, A Woman Styled BoM, pp. 72-73. 8 This was an ecclesiastical court that, until 1857, ruled on mat-rimonial cases under English canon law. Divorces granted by this court did not permit remarriage. Otherwise, the only way to obtain a divorce was by private Act of Parliament. Positio I: 330. 9 Brendan Larnen's play about the trial, Connelly vs. Connelly (New York: Blackfriars' Guild, 1961), was staged in New York and Los Angeles fifty years ago. See Kenneth L. Woodward, Making Saints: How the Catholic Church Determines Who Becomes a Saint, Who Doesn't, and Why (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1990), p. 267. 1o The Life of Cornelia Connelly, 1809-1879, Foundress of the Society of the Holy Child Jesus, by A Religious of the Society [Mary Catherine Gompertz] (London: Longrnans, Green & Co., 1930), p. 257. As of 1952, at the height of the Catholic educational system, the Society had established four additional schools and convents in England (including Oxford and Harrogate), three in Ireland, one in Switzerland, one in Rome, six in Africa, and twenty-two in the 70.4 2011 Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals U.S. Kaye-Smith, Quartet in Heaven, p. 118. Many of these are now closed, but the Society has further expanded into Germany and Latin America. See the SHCJ website, http://shcj.org/today_ministries.html ii Woodward, Making Saints, p. 253. The author is Sister Elizabeth Mary Strub, former superior general of the SHCJ. ~2 As recalled by Abelard in Historia calamitatum ("The Calamities of Peter Abelard"), trans. Levitan, p. 17; Heloise, First Letter, in Levitan, pp. 55-56. 13 Third Letter (in the collection, i.e, the second from Heloise), Levitan, pp. 78-79. 14 Giles Consta~ble, Letters and Letter-Collections, Typologie des sources du Moyen Age occidental, p. 17 (Turnhout: Brepols, 1976); Peter Dronke, Abelard and Heloise in Medieval Testimonies (Glasgow: University of Glasgow Press, 1976). 15 Barbara Newman, "Authority, Authenticity, and the Repression of Heloise," in Front Virile Woman to WomanChrist: Studies in Medieval Religion and Literature (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1995), pp. 46-75 (pp. 73-74). 16 Heloise, First Letter, p. 61; Third Letter, p. 81 17 According to Abelard, Heloise tearfully declaimed the lament of Cornelia, the wife of Pompey, from Lucan's Pharsalia--"and with these words, she rushed to the altar, snatched up the veil which the bishop had just blessed, and bound herself to the convent in the pres-ence'of all." Historia calamitatum, in Levitan, p. 20. 18 Cornelia Connelly to Adeline Dural, letter of 17 Oct. 1835, in Positio, I: 81. ¯ 19 The letters of Abelard and Heloise were popularized by the poet Jean de Meun, who translated them into French: Eric Hicks, ed., La vie et les epistres Pierres Abaelart et Heloys sa fame: Traduction du XIIIe siOcle attribude i~ Jean de Meun (Paris: Champion, 1991). More famously, he incorporated the lovers' tale into his bestrselling Roman de la Rose, which remained by far the best-known version until mod-ern times. z0 Abelard, Historia calamitamm, in Levitan, p. 15. Abelard cites Heloise in direct speech; she was in turn paraphrasing Jerome's trea-tise Adversus Jovinianum (393), and Jerome was citing a lost anti-matrimonial tract by the pagan Theophrastus, sometimes called "The Golden Book on Marriage." Theophrastus, Jerome, and their numerous medieval heirs all argued that a wise man should not marry; only Heloise extended this counsel to women, as I first noted in "Authority, Authenticity," p. 67. This grammatical nuance was Review for Religious overlooked in the classic translation by Betty Radice, The Letters of Abelard and Heloise (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1974; rev. ed. 2003), p. 14; Levitan corrects the error. 2, Heloise, letter to Peter the Venerable, abbot of Cluny, ca. 1144-49, in Levitan, p. 273. 2z He probably became a cathedral canon in Nantes, and may later have been a Cistercian abbot at Hauterive: Levitan, Abelard and Hgloi'se, p. 13, n. 26. Abelard wrote a lengthy didactic poem for him, the Carmen ad Astralabium, ed. Jos~ Rubingh-Bosscher (Groningen, 1987). 23 Barbara Newman, "'Crueel Corage': Child Sacrifice and the Maternal Martyr in Hagiography and Romance," in From Virile Woman to WomanChrist, pp. 76-107 (p. 81). 24 Thomas Hatchard, Case of the Rev. Pierce Connelly, 2nd ed. (London, 1853), cited in Judith Lancaster SHCJ, Cornelia Connelly and Her Interpreters (Oxford: Way Books, 2004), p. 250. 25 Notebook of Cornelia Connelly, 21 January 1848, in Positio I: 298. 26 Cornelia Connelly to Ralph Peacock, letter of 1854, in Lancaster, Cornelia Connelly, p. 274. 27 Cornelia Connelly to Ralph Peacock, letter of 18 November 1858, in Lancaster, Cornelia Connelly, p. 274. For a moving treatment of Cornelia's feelings about this loss, see Dorothy Bryant, '!Keeping Vows: Cornelia Connelly (1809-1879)," in Last Words: Imaginary Letters from Real People (2010). Online at http://www.dorothybryant. com/LastWords.html 2s Caritas McCarthy SHCJ, The Spirituality of Cornelia Connelly: In God, For God, With God (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen, 1986), pp. 73-80. For the history of this idea see Dyan Elliott, Spiritual Marriage: Sexual Abstinence in Medieval Wedlock (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1993). 29 See Newman, "'Crueel Corage': Child Sacrifice and the Maternal Martyr." 3o Woodward, Making Saints, pp. 268-70. 3~ Woodward, Making Saints, p. 271. 32 McCarthy, Spirituality; Roseanne McDougall SHCJ, Cornelia Connelly's Innovations in Female Education, 1846-1864: Revolutionizing the School Curriculum for Girls (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen, 2008). 33 Heloise, Fifth Letter, in Levitan, p. 126. 34 Abelard, Seventh Letter, in Levitan, pp. 170-255. 361 70.4 201 ! Newman ¯ A Tale of Two Scandals 3s For Heloise's rule see Chrysogonus Waddell, ed., The Paraclete Statutes, Institutiones Nostrae: Introduction, Edition, Commentary (Trappist, KY: Gethsemani Abbey, 1987). On the discrepan-cies see John E Benton, "Fraud, Fiction and Borrowing in the Correspondence of Abelard and Heloise," in Pierre Ab(lard--Pierre le Vgngrable: Les courants philosophiques, littgraires, et artistiques en Occident au milieu du XIIe sikcle, ed. Ren~ Louis and Jean Jolivet (Paris: l~.ditions du Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, 1975), pp. 469-506 (p. 474). In 1980 Benton retracted his arguments for the inauthenticity of the letters. 36 For discussion see Enid McLeod, H?loi'se: A Biography, 2nd ed. (London: Chatto & Windus, 1971), pp. 219-24; Clanchy, Abelard, pp. 251-60. Heloise's biographer states that she "worked entirely in har-mony with Abailard's wishes" (p. 222), though not slavishly. Abelard's more skeptical biographer says she "ignored" his rule (p. 258). 37 Mary Martin McLaughlin, "Peter Abelard and the Dignity of Women: Twelfth Century 'Feminism' in Theory and Practice," in Pierre Ab3lard--Pierre le V3n3rable, pp. 287-333; Mcuin Blamires, The Case for Women in Medieval Culture (Oxford: Clarendon, 1997), pp. 199-207. 38 See my "Flaws in the Golden Bowl: Gender and Spiritual Formation in the Twelfth Century," in From Virile Woman to WomanCbrist, pp. 19-45 (p. 27). 39 Abelard, Seventh Letter, in Levitan, p. 198. ~0 Clanchy, Abelard, p. 258. 41 McLeod, Hiloi'se, pp. 210-219. 42 Penelope D. Johnson, Equal in Monastic Profession: Religious VVomen in Medieval France (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1991), p. 234. 43 "Memorial of the Rev. Pierce Connelly to the S. Cong. de Propaganda Fide," 10 February 1848, in Positio 1:299. The original is in French; English translation mine. 44 Pierce Connelly to the Earl of Shrewsbury, letter of 28 Dec. 1848, in Positio I: 307. 45 Wadham, Case of Cornelia Connelly, p. 226. 46 Not only did Danell style himself "Bishop Superior of the Institute"; he also sent his rule to the order's American houses with no explanation. Left in the dark, the U.S. sisters assumed that the new rule was Cornelia's high-handed innovation and refused to obey it, provoking a schism. Review for Religious 47 Gompertz, Life of Cornelia Connelly, p. 235. 48 Gompertz, Life of Cornelia Connelly, pp. 248-250. 49 Susan O'Brien, "Terra Incognita: The Nun in Nineteenth- Century England," Past dr Present, 121 (November 1988), pp. 110-140. so Lancaster, Cornelia Connelly and Her Interpreters, pp. 51-55. Palimpsest Recycling isn't new. When writing was serious, words were costly, vellum was scrubbed, papyrus washed, reused. Sometimes earlier uncials appear in ghostly outline. A Syriac text of Chrysostom reveals a Latin grammar: amo, amas, amat. What comes to articulation has layers beneath the surface deeper than words, runic letters in languages we don't quite understand. Bonnie Thurston 363 70.4 2011 building community BEATRICE M. EICHTEN The Hum of Being: Spirituality for Leadership At the beginning of his ministry, after hear-ing the heady proclamation that he is God's beloved Son, Jesus is plunged into a desert experience. He is tempted by the devil, who invites him to have his physical needs met, to exercise power through the worldly skills of division and manipulation rather than forgive-ness and reconciliation, and to be safe from all unpleasant, negative experiences. Jesus is able to withstand these temptations because he knows who he is. In his baptism and prayer, the truth of Jesus' identity is revealed to him: he is the beloved of God, one in whom God takes pleasure. Knowing who he is, Jesus is able to face the tension between being loved and being hungry/needy, between being loved and being socially powerless, and between being loved and being safe from all negative experiences. 1 Beatrice M. Eichten OSF is community minister/presi-dent of the Franciscan Sisters of Little Falls, Minnesota. Her address is 116 8th Ave. SE; Little Falls, Minnesota 56345-3597. Review for Religiotts When we are elected to leadership in our religious community, we are called forth to fulfill a special role as both spiritual and organizational leader. Such a call is empowering as well as humbling. It is a moment of being loved, of being affirmed for our strengths, a moment of special promise. However, this moment gives way to many other moments, and we quickly learn, as we take on this new role, that we do not give up our vulnerability or foibles. We do not cease wanting to control and "manage" others "for their own good." Nor can we avoid criticism, negativity, or unpopularity because of decisions we must make. We come face-to-face with ourselves as we encounter new challenges in the ministry of leadership. Where do we in leadership go when we face chal-lenges, temptations, and limitations? We can adopt the mindset of working hard to live up to the idealized expectations of our culture and community, or we can trust our authentic selves--the truth that we are beloved daughters or sons who give pleasure to God in carrying out a leadership function. We can discover a spirituality of leadership by examining our ongoing response to the challenges, temptations, and limitations we encounter. When we come to our spiritual identity, when we know who we are, says John Shea, then our spiritual work begins. As it was for Jesus, coming to this knowl-edge is a co-working with God that engages the full-ness of the human person. Foundational to the process is metanoia, conversion, the change of mind and heart that occurs~when we come to know ourselves as open to Spirit. Conversion leads us to make ourselves accessible to God. We move beyond our sinfulness and limita-tions to knowing that we, like Jesus, bring pleasure to God. This is a fruit of prayer. We open ourselves "to 70.4 2011 Eicbten * The Hum of Being 366 receive what the Divine Source is waiting to give" (p. 99). Openness makes us ready to receive. God as God. Such openness comes in prayer, in the troubled sister, in vexing financial and administrative details, in the elderly and the sick, in the gifted ministry of so many of our members, in our team of ministry colleagues, in cre-ation, and on and on. Spirit enters into this world; we do not break into Spirit's world. God is always present; we are the ones invited to open ourselves to receive and to act from our deepest identity as beloved of and precious to God. Shea goes on to say that, though the origins and destiny of Spirit are mysterious, you are filled by the sound of it. It is the burn of being--present, vibrant, alive, now. You live by a spirit that is not you. Being born of this spirit is not an event "done and over." It is the "always-already- now" of life. It is the power of God liv-ing in you. Touch that ever so slightly in yourself and you will open to the teacher sent from God, and he will whisper things hidden since the foun-dation of the world, the things he has heard from his Father, the things he is yearning to tell you. He will entrust himself to you. (p. 86, emphasis added) This "hum of being" is "the vibration of pure exis-tence. It blows where it will because it is not produced by people . its origin and destiny cannot be traced, but we bear the sound of it. We know it because it is car-rying us away" (p. 94). Opening to Spirit The core of leadership ministry is spiritual leader-ship-- a way of being present to ourselves and to our God that informs and guides our organizational lead-ership. Spiritual leadership requires an openness and readiness to receive Spirit as she comes to us each day. Review for Religious "Spirit is shy," says Shea. "It does not want to compete with other allegiances. It wants open space, vacancies that it can move into without conflict. When we are detached, we wait in readiness . . . [with] hands empty and open" (p. 38). This calls for an emp-tiness with which we are often not comfort-able. It calls us to back away consciously from being overly busy, important, needed, in control, and responsi-ble. Shea suggests that it means being con-scious of our human dependence and vul- -°- - nerability, of the alienation that characterizes sin, and of the uncomfortable conversion that leads us to redemp-tion rather than isolation (pp. 141-42). Being attentive to our inner reality requires time to be engaged with our inner selves and with God. Wayne Muller says that "without stillness, without being pres-ent, we will miss the simple, quiet opportunities., to hear more accurately. We will miss the opening, the readiness, that place of grace waiting to be born.''2 Being quiet and present is a critical discipline and necessary attitude as we deal with the siren lure of daily demands and issues inherent in congregational leadership. Different personalities will attend to inner realities and find a life focus in different ways. One person's way of being open and attentive to God can, for another, be a "grit-your-teeth" effort. Joan Chittister OSB reminds us that even age does not have to be an "impediment Being quiet and present is a ~ri~tical discipline as we deal with the siren lure of daily demands and issues inherent in congregational leadership. 367 70.4 2011 Eicbten ¯ The Hum of Being 368 to the magnet for life in us.''3 When we discover what is the magnet of life for us, we will also discover clues to where we find the source of energy for our journey through life. Those clues can be particularly helpful for those in a leadership position. By knowing and trust-ing our way of being present to God, we will come to know the truth that "There are as many ways to pray as there are moments in life . In all these moments, [we] gradually make [our] lives more a prayer and . . . open [our] hands to be led by God even to where [we] would rather not go.''4 Inherent Call to Conversion Spiritual and communal leadership is an ongoing call to conversion. We begin with any of a wide range of attitudes: "It's my turn." "I am finally feeling ready." "Oh God, please not me!" "I am willing to serve and to offer my best." "If this is what God and the community want of me ." "This is how I will do leadership" . "This is what I will do to help community grow" . "This is what I will do to 'fix' the community . " Regardless of how we begin, we soon learn that this ministry is about entering into a way of life where, as an elected leader, we turn from the perspective of a mem-ber to a perspective that encompasses the whole com-munity. The position brings new responsibilities and a fresh awareness both of the community and of the local and global church. Community members express their varied expectations of leaders in titles that range from "Mother General" to "Servant Leader," but whatever the expectations, leadership is a way of life that calls for detachment and self-emptying? for becoming a channel for Spirit in the life and activities of the whole community. Review for Religious Leadership requires letting go of attachments, fre-quently of a beloved ministry. A move to a new location, may mean distance from family, friends, and colleagues. We often discover, painfully, that being called to lead-ership changes how friends and companions relate to us. We need to move from roles and responsibilities with which we have identified into those that may not be of our personal choice. How many of us have said, "Finances are not my thing"? Yet now we must carry major responsibility for financial stewardship of the congregation. We learn that even though we are vested with power in the community, we do not have full control over our schedule, our members, our decisions. I remember hear-ing a speaker say to a roomful of new leaders that they had control of their schedules and could schedule days off. Having been in leadership before, I almost laughed out loud, knowing how many days off or team plan-ning days had been cut short by a death or a commu-nity crisis. While congregations talk about "part-time" leadership, the fact is, once elected, we are never not an elected leader. Leadership ministry is full-time, is exercised whenever and however it is called for, and is a ministry around which we wrap part-time responsibili-ties as chaplain or pastoral minister or whatever. The position calls for detachment from personal and minis-try commitments in order to carry out leadership minis-try. It also calls for circumspection as we come to realize that everything we say and do reflects on "leadership"; personal opinions become "Leadership believes . " Response to the Call to Conversion We can fight against the inevitable demands for detachments or we can allow them to be invitations to 70.4 2011 Eicbten ¯ The Hum of Being go within, to come to deeper self-knowledge, to get in touch with our spiritual center. I remember fearing that leadership would move me into falsity and role-playing. Then I heard Angeles Arrien, a cultural anthropolo-gist, speak about the necessity for leaders to exercise "response-ability"--not responsibility as duty or obli-gation ("I have to . . ."), but as the ability to respond from one's authentic self ("I choose to . . ."). Such an understanding invites a freely given choice. Richard Nahman OSA, in a reflection on gospel spirituality,5 points out that the word "authority" comes from the same root as "author" and "authenticity." He poses some probing questions: "How authentic am I? . . . do I challenge myself, asking, 'Am I "selling" a heart-rending "product," or is the Word of God alive in me?'" His questions encourage us to ask our own: When is my action more about me than about service to my sis-ters and our mission in the church? In facing the daily challenges of leadership, do I aim to win or do I enter into the call to conversion? Am I reacting to a particular sister because of some past experience with her? Or am I able to step back and consider how I would respond to that same request or situation if it involved someone else? Do I need to control, or can I open myself to living with ambiguity and other ways of thinking? How am I dealing with stress? Am I numbing myself by eating or drinking too much? What am I avoiding? To whom am I accountable? Questions like these help keep us honest, invite us to face the challenges we encounter with open-ness to our personal blindness and need for conversion, and move us to prayer and reflection. Acting from Gift or Obligation? If we are serious about conversion, in leadership we Revie~v for Religious will come face to face with our inner self and our bodily reality--our truth in all its beauty and messiness--and will be invited to make a choice to live and minister out of a gift economy rather than an obligation economy. God is gifting me with this opportunity. Can I offer my ministry out of a generous abundance, or do I move into resentment because I "have to do it"? Can I own the reality that leadership does involve some "have tos" and do them graciously rather than grudgingly? How approach a situation shapes how I enter into it and how others experience me in it. None of us is perfect; nor is anyone the perfect leader. But a leader is invited to go beyond duty or obligation and make a choice for life, a choice to love and to serve the com-munity members out of love. This, I believe, is a choice for conversion, a "turning away from one's past [and] entrust-ing oneself to the unex-pected, uncharted way into the incalculable future in which God comes to us.''6 Conversion is not just giving up and letting go, adapting our lives to the necessities of the ministry, but is a life-long project of committing one's whole life to God. And leadership ministry offers abundant opportunities to move toward that commitment. Gradually, if we are open to conver-sion, God becomes that "hum of being" that accompa-nies us whether or not we are aware of it. We need to choose intentionally to open ourselves to conversion, knowing that we do not control when or how it will happen. God has a way of unsettling our Conversion is a life-long project of committing one's whole life to God. 371 70.4 2011 Eicbten ¯ Tbe Hum of Being carefully controlled world and "tipping" it sideways. VChen we least expect it, God will find ways to unsettle us and invite us to make "soul" decisions in which we recommit our hearts and lives to the sacred journey-- inward, outward, and forward--the "always-already-now" of life that Shea speaks of. It is a journey wherein we are called to be witnesses to the gospel and to be changed by God's abundant love into true disciples. As leaders, we are sustained in this conversion pro-cess by our own prayer, by the love and prayer of our leadership team, by friends and companions, by the liturgy, by the beauty of creation, and by the grace of office itself---"the quiet, sudden infusion of some power beyond [one]self. the unbidden, unsought, unexpected emergence in the soul of a capacity hitherto unacknowledged" (Spoto, pp. 59-60). Leadership as Loving Relationship When Jesus came to proclaim the Good News, some were gleeful that the Messiah had come and things would be good for the downtrodden Jews. However, Jesus in his preaching and ministry taught that the peo-ple of Israel should not presume privilege. He began his ministry not from a place of power but from a realiza-tion that he was loved and that his mission was to draw others into God's love. Whatever he did, he did out of his identity as the loved one. When we are elected to leadership positions, we must realize that we are elected for mission and not for our own prestige. Shea suggests that when we realize we are loved, we are energized, and it is then that we begin, even if we continue work we have been doing for years (p. 113). We can draw on personal skills and abilities and become good administrators in our communities, but Review for Religious spiritual leadership is about knowing ourselves as loved; about loving and receiving love in our sister-to-sister, brother-to-brother relationships; and about speaking truth in love. George Wilson says that we are "held irre-vocably by a profound sense of charity." A deep love for God and for one another enables us to face the uncom-fortable and often contradictory movements in our lives and in the lives of our sisters and brothers. "The Gospel mandate of love--not a romanticized abstraction but an interpersonal engagement with a challenging flesh-and-blood sister or brother--will always remain the ultimate touchstone for truth.''7 The mandate of love moves us to relationships characterized by dialogue, forgiveness, and reconciliation. As leaders, we are called to create deeper understanding among our members, to uncover a base of shared meaning that helps us coordinate and align our actions with our values. We enter into a pro-found dialogue when we relate from a deep well of love, even in what may seem simple and ordinary. It is not just words that we share; it is a relationship8 that finds its source in our relationship with God. Our sisters and brothers may or may not remember a major project that was completed or that it was accomplished during the term of leadership. What they will remember is our relationship with them--whether we loved them. Leadership as Pilgrimage Spiritual leadership is not static but is a process that draws us into a vital and life-changing relationship with God and with our community. We can think of that process as a pilgrimage. Doris Donnelley identifies five characteristics that distinguish pilgrims from tourists.9 Perhaps we can appropriate these as we strive to become pilgrim leaders: 70.4 2011 Eichten ¯ The Hum of Being ¯ Valuing the internal. Pilgrim leaders are motivated by a hope for something to happen within, something that alters their attitudes and ways of looking at life. ¯ Valuing self-investment. Pilgrim leaders invest themselves and surrender to the experience. They sur-render all that clutters their lives so that God takes cen-ter stage. ¯ Valuing transformation. Pilgrim leaders are awak-ened to new dimensions of life, community, and church. Such awakening requires listening at a deep level--at the level of Spirit and the "hum of being"--to avoid falling into disillusionment and cynicism as they learn more about the human failings and limitations of their community members and their church--and perhaps of themselves. ¯ Valuing the journey as well as the arrival. Pilgrim leaders prepare both before and all through their term of office by "taking time seriously and elegantly--the right here-and-now time of [their] lives" (Muller, p. 167). At the end of their leadership ministry, they "go home" and allow the internal dimension of their journey to continue to unfold. Those who allow this to hap-pen are changed, and the rest of their life's pilgrimage begins in new ways. ¯ Valuing community. Pilgrim leaders know that they are on a particular journey at a particular time and with a particular group for a reason. As the journey unfolds, the connections they make and the experiences they share with the group help them to understand that they are part of something much bigger than their own per-sonal growth and decisions. All of us, both leaders and members, are on a pilgrimage. We are a community within the larger community of our church, both the pastoral and the Review for Religious hierarchical church. We allow ourselves to realize that we are about witnessing to our loving God, not about building the perfect community. Parker Palmer1° speaks about the necessity of "de-illusionment," that is, moving from the "illusion of salvation by interaction" (having an idealized community of love, understanding, and true dialogue, having lots of new vocations, etc.), to under-standing that we are people in search of God, that God is always present, and that salvation is pure gift of God. I conclude with words for all who are called to com-munity leadership: trust your pilgrimage of leadership. Open yourself to God's love so freely given. Surrender yourself to God and listen to the hum of your being as God guides your community into the future and guides you daily in your leadership service to your sisters and brothers. Your authenticity is a source of Spirit. You are strengthened and supported when you are able to be open to Spirit, when you can allow enough emptiness and detachment to make room for Spirit, and when you can trust God enough to enter into the call to con-version. When you know yourself as beloved and pre-cious to God, that love will overflow into those around you; and, if you allow it, you will experience the return of love in abundance. Returning to the words of John Shea: "You are filled with the sound [of Spirit] . . . the hum of being . . . present, vibrant, alive, now. Being born of this spirit is not an event 'done and over.' It is the 'always-already-now' of life. It is the power of God living in you." In these days, when there are no clear answers or directions for our communities, we are invited to enter into the pilgrimage of religious communal life and min-istry with trust, courage, hope, and gratitude. As lead- 70.4 2011 Eicbten ¯ The Hum of Being ers, let us journey together with our sisters and brothers and with our God into a future filled with hope. Notes ' John Shea, Gospel Light: Jesus Stories for Spiritual Consciousness (New York: The Crossroad Publishing Company, 1998). This theme is developed more fully in Chapter 4, pp. 97-116. 2 Wayne Muller, Sabbath, Finding Rest, Renewal, and Delight in Our Busy Lives (New York: Bantam Book, 2000), p. 167. 3 Joan Chittister, Gi~ of Years. (New York: BlueBridge, 2008), p. vii. 4 Henri Nouwen, With Open Hands (Notre Dame: Ave Maria Press, 1972), p. 158. s Richard M. Nahman OSA, "My Gospel Spirituality," Review for Religious (2009): 41-48. 6 Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint, The Life of Francis of Assisi (New York: The Penguin Group, 2003), p. 48. 7 George Wilson, "Something Tells Me. ," Human Development (2008): 13. 8 William Isaacs, Dialogue and the Art of Thinking Together (New York: Doubleday, 1999), p. 19. He notes that the ancient meaning of the word logos suggests "an intimate awareness of the relationships among things in the natural world," making "relationship" the best English translation for logos. "In that sense, logos may be best rendered in English as 'relationship.' The Book of John in the New Testament begins: 'In the beginning was the Word (logos).' We could now hear this as 'In the beginning was the Relationship.' " 9 Doris Donnelly, "Pilgrims and Tourists: Conflicting Metaphors for the Christian Journey to God," Spirituality Today 44:1 (1992): 20-36. www.spiritualitytoday.org/spir2day/9243.1donnelly.html l0 Dr. Parker J. Palmer, "Borne Again: The Monastic Way to Church Renewal," Weavings: A Journal of the Christian Spiritual Life (1986), p. 12. 376 Review for Religious THOMAS A. KROSNICKI Architecture and Religious Life ~ ver the years, Review for Religious has covered a wide range of diverse topics that touch religious life. The indices of the preceding 69 volumes of the periodical attest to a rich and significant contribution. Yet it seems to me that one topic is conspicuous by its absence. There seem to be no articles dealing with the relationship architecture has with the life of religious communities in general or about the impact buildings have on the members of those communities. In this brief presentation, I intend to raise several salient points for reflection and possible discussion by religious men and women about the impact of architecture--the houses we live in--on religious life. Your House Is a Self-Portrait Granting that the statement "Your house is a self-portrait" holds a measure of truth, one might rightly Thomas A. Krosnicki SVD is a former Director of the Bishops' Committee on the Liturgy. He may be addressed at Divine Word House, 832 Varnum Street NE, Washington, DC 20017-2143. 70.4 2011 Krosnicki ¯ Architecture and Religious Life 378 ask: What is the identity that a religious community intends to project by its buildings? It could be worth-while, therefore, for community members to step back and take a good look at their present living quarters, particularly if they are contemplating renovations or the construction of a new building in the future. What com-posite self-portrait do the present buildings or plans for future ones project to members and non-members alike? There should normally be a correlation between the edifice and the self-definition of the religious community that it houses. Ideally, building and self-definition posi-tively reinforce each other. As there is no set design for th~ shape of a religious house, no one can convincingly claim that "this is how a house for religious should look." During the 1950s and 1960s, when religious com-munities were expanding in the United States, archi-tects designed new houses for religious communities that today remain clearly identifiable as from that era. Basically, many look very much alike--pejoratively described as "1960 Penal." They ended up strikingly similar in both design and material. I can, for example, point to the two houses across from my residence in metropolitan Washington DC and say unequivocally, "Clearly, from their appearance, both were built dur-ing the unprecedented growth phenomena of Catholic religious life of the 1960s." Unfortunately, in the States such buildings were generally designedto last for 75 to 100 years; they will be standing for another 25 or more years, even though their primary purpose may have morphed into something else, given the decline of voca-tions and dwindled need for large residential buildings. How did that kind of building style come about? Financial constraints? The pressure of urgent need for expansion? A lack of creative imagination? Government Review for Religious restrictions? Regardless of the reason, the basic princi-ple "Every house is a self-portrait" seems to have been unwittingly overlooked. One hopes that we religious have better images of ourselves than these buildings project. But, a corporate self-image is not always easy to come by. How might it be achieved? Rule and charism, as well as the function and ministry of the particular religious community are central to the large equation that feeds into an architectural design. Therefore, in plan-ning or renovating a house, a religious community must col-laborate with a care-fully selected architect in a process of "defin- ~, ing" the building so it truly fits with and looks like the community and not just shows off the architect's latest ideas. As qualified and inspired as the architect or builder might be, they still may not truly understand religious life and must watch the bottom line of overall cost and materials. In short, the community must school the architect, as well as itself, in its unique religious ethos, its particular rule, and its designated ministry so that the completed proj-ect images or reflects the community at its very best. Thus, a rural Trappist monastery should not have the appearance or design of an inner city residence for the Missionaries of Charity of Mother Teresa of Calcutta. One hopes that we religious have better images of ourselves than these buildings project. Form Follows Function The architectural principle of Louis Sullivan (~'1896) that "form follows function" remains both valid and in 379 70.4 2011 Krosnicki ¯ Architecture and Religious Life 380 vogue today. Unfortunately, one can still find designs that have proven to be decidedly dysfunctional in spite of that basic principle. Frank Lloyd Wright ('c1959), the renowned American assistant to Sullivan, accepted the axiom in principle but moved beyond it to "organic architecture" promoted by the "Prairie School" move-ment. Recent attention has focused on the organic archi-tecture of the Sagrada Familia Basilica in Barcelona, designed by Antoni Gaudi (t1927). Nature was Gaudi's inspiration. He saw that plant forms clearly stem from their organic function, and he incorporated those forms into the functionality of his imaginative edifice. Function does not necessarily dictate that the end product be prosaic, sterile, or crassly utilitarian. Paradoxically perhaps, structural forms can be functional without being deprived of the truly creative, void of the artistically challenging, or stripped of the esthetically appealing contributions of architecture. Religious residences are generally built in view of their multiple and unique functions. So, the first chal-lenge is to attempt to define the multifunctionality of a religious building that is to be something more than a warehouse for people or a residence for transient day-laborers, not unlike a Motel 6 or Holiday Inn. The bui~ldings are residences for women or men dedicated to a life in community (mensa communis remains an apt term) and bound together by common religious life and ideals, expressed in vows, vocation, and ministerial commitment. A first consideration, when looking at form-func-tion, is the physical arrangement or basic design of the building. What structural units are judged major-- i.e., the central, common spaces of the community? The community chapel, gathering room, library, and Review for Religious dining facility--characterized by their size, location, and accessibility--are generally considered primary. A well thought out floor plan needs to facilitate patterns of movement to these central community areas. Secondary structural units are necessary community service areas and the rooms for individual members, which provide commodious but not ostentatious living. I recall that some artist--perhaps Michelangelo-- stated that "small rooms beget small ideas." Although the personal rooms of the members remain secondary in terms of designed structural units, they are not unimportant for the general well-being of the commu-nity. Each community has its own approach and its own reasons for making its deci sions. One religious community that initially provided private rooms for members in initial formation decided to redesign the space into areas that could be occupied by several persons because they felt that during the ini-tial formation stage private accommodations fostered too much individualism, egocentrism, and even narcis-sism-- a concern that the 'T' might loom larger than the "we." Such questions remain open to serious reflection and debate based on various issues that come into play --e.g., culture, maturity, and background of the indi-viduals concerned. Ultimately, what must be considered in any situa-tion is the basic interrelationship of major and secondary structural units and their impact on the daily life and well-being of the community. Consciously or unconsciously, Some artist stated that "small rooms beget small ideas." 381 70.4 2011 Krosnicki ¯ Architecture and Religious Life decisions about their size and placement will identify and underscore community priorities and emphases. The physical environment does influence the persons who occupy the building, 382' The Building Shapes the Community We must accept the fact that the physical environ-ment does influence the persons who occupy the building. In a process that is subde and for the most part uncon-scious, the edifice can take hold and mold the minds and hearts of the occupants for good or ill. A house at architectural peace with itself can pro-mote harmonious peace for the inhabitants. A house bereft of structural harmony and beauty can, unfortunately, exacerbate division and conflict. That alone is a good reason for "getting it right" on the draw-ing board from the very beginning. Buildings, even for religious men and women, need to support and enhance the individual emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually. Consideration must be given to how the psychological and spiritual well-being of the community members can be fostered by the house they inhabit. Is there an appropriate balance between community and individuality? What about the tension between the need for private and for public spaces? Areas of silence and communication? Flexibility and stability? Buildings architecturally designed like rabbit burrows or mazes, where one can easily hide away from others, do not facilitate communication (and therefore community itself) any more than open ended "glass houses" neces-sarily foster or encourage healthy solitude and needed Review for Religious silence. Other problems can be compounded by poor physical layout. Anger, for example, can be triggered by a person's assigned living space within the commu-nity (e.g., "We built the rooms too close to--or too far from--the elevators"). Inadequate light might contribute to depression--e.g., "It's too dark here. I need the sun. I'm depressed." Community and interpersonal tensions can arise when the building itself does not reinforce per-sonal identity, enhance self-worth, or affirm self-esteem. [Editor's Note: One, however, must admit that while some difficulties can be remedied by a change of rooms or by the purchase of adequate lamps, even the best architec-tural planning can go only so far in addressing deeply engrained attitudes and longstanding difficulties.] Serious interpersonal conflicts might be symptomatic of a systemic error in the very environmental package in which one "lives and moves and has his or her being." "You act the way you dress" is a maxim that might be buttressed with another: "You live the way you're housed." Physical, emotional, psychological wholeness and well-being along with spiritual growth are nourished by an environment of beauty and are enhanced by tran-quility begotten of right order. Go Green A new, but significant, consideration in the design and use of religious buildings is the "green" movement. Care for the earth and its natural resources is not only an environmental issue but a theological one as well. In the design and construction of new buildings by reli-gious communities, attending to this "green" factor can stimulate new thinking, practical cost-saving, and aware-ness of environmental issues. There are already positive examples in this regard. 3,83 70.4 2011 Krosnicki * Architecture and Religious Life The Holy Wisdom Monastery of Benedictine Sisters in Middleton, Wisconsin, (www.benedictinewomen.org) that opened in August 2009 addressed "green" issues such as geothermal heating and cooling, solar panels, rain and roof gardens, tankless water heaters, optimum use of natural light, restored natural prairie habitats, and use of regional building materials. The goals are clear: an environmentally sound structure, respect for the environment, use of energy-saving programs, affordable housing, and the manifestation of a spirituality aligned with a care for the earth and all creation. One resource for any religious community consider-ing the construction of a new building or the retrofit-ting of an old one would be the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design), a program developed by USGBC, "provides building owner and operators a concise frame-work for identifying and implementing practical and mea-surable ~green building design, construction, operations, and maintenance solutions" (see www.LEED.org). The LEED program can be applied to all buildings regardless of where they are in their life cycle (old, renovated, new). Impact beyond the Community It is my contention that, with few exceptions, reli-gious women and men have not given enough attention to the architectural impact their buildings--in particular their residences--have on their membership. In addition to all that has been said above, it would be important to know what impression our buildings have on those who are shopping around for a religious community. Could it be that the building that clothes the community is of far more significance--more, even, than the religious habit--than heretofore granted? Certainly, in the pro- Review for Religious cess of designing new structures or retrofitting old ones, the psychological, spiritual, and physical well-being of the individual, and therefore of the community, must be carefully weighed. In all these areas, there is ample reflection material for the community, the architect, and the construction company. The fruit of that reflec-tion would benefit religious life and those that religious touch by their life and ministry. Approaching Fall As the drone of locusts saws through evening silence, summer quietly collapses. No encore of merry gardens, rains trelsy of wrens, aroma of cut grass. I gird my soul as I view the spent zucchini plants fiat and pallid. No sly submarines left. And so goodbyet. My God, pull back these fingers reaching for what's gone. Teach them to renounce for the needed span all blush and bloom, all sun-nursed freshness. Stiffen my spine for sterner days, arthritic stalks in dying fields, the grief of trees soon to weep their leaves. Let me trust the grace all losses offer. Patricia Schnapp RSM 70.4 2011 focus on JOEL GIALLANZA Be Saints: Pathway to a Holy Life Joseph On 17 October 2010, Pope Benedict XVI can-onized Brother Andr4 Bessette CSC, the first member of the Congregation of Holy Cross to be so honored. His canonization did not really surprise anyone who knows anything about his life and work and, of course, about the Oratory of Saint Joseph in Montreal. Even before Andr4's beatification in 1982 and now his canonization, it was easy to think of him as a saint. He was considered such even during his lifetime. And, in the interim period of forty-five years between his death and his beatification, it was generally assumed that one day he would be officially recognized as a saint by the church. It was easy to think of him as a saint because of the many healings and Joel Giallanza CSC is the administrative assis-tant to the provincial of the South West Province of the Holy Cross Brothers. He can be addressed at 1101 St. Edward's Drive, Austin, Texas 78704. Revi~ for Religious other miracles associated with him. Though not often mentioned, those other miracles included bi-location and the gift of insight through which he could read (or "see," as he said) people's souls. These types of miracles came to light during the testimony of witnesses in the processes for his beatification and canonization. Brother Andre's frequent exhortation to others was simple and direct, "Be saints." His life and work set before us a way to holiness, a way to "be saints." A Life and A Work Alfred Bessette was born on 9 August 1845, in Saint Gr~goire d'Iberville, Qudbec, Canada. He was the eighth of twelve children. By the time he was twelve years old, both his parents had died; he and his siblings were separated and sent to live with various relatives. Alfred did not receive much education; he learned to sign his name and to read a little. His health was always weak and it was difficult for him to keep a regular job. As a young man, he worked for various factories and mills in Canada and the northeastern United States. In 1870, when he was twenty-five years old, he applied for admission to the Congregation of Holy Cross, a community of brothers, priests, and sisters founded in France thirty-five years earlier by Blessed Basil Moreau CSC, a diocesan priest of Le Mans. Alfred was accepted, and took the name Brother Andre. Because of his poor health, his approval for profession of vows was delayed. After his initial formation, he was assigned to Notre Dame College in Montreal, a secondary boarding school sponsored by the Congregation of Holy Cross. He served as doorkeeper, infirmarian, barber, and jani-tor. In 1872, he was approved to profess his vows as a 387 70.4 2011 Giallanza ¯ Be Saints Brother of Holy Cross. Though he was not involved in the school extensively, he was particularly sensitive to students who were ill. When an epidemic of smallpox broke out in another school in Montreal, Andr~ rec-ommended a procession with a statue of Saint Joseph through the school. The epidemic diminished imme-diately. Increasingly, the sick began to visit Brother Andr~ and ask for his prayer and advice. His usual recom-mendation was that they pray to Saint Joseph to ask for his intercession. In the early 1870s, the first heal-ings began to occur. Brother Andr~ always insisted that Saint Joseph accomplished all these things. His typi-cal "response when people requested his own prayer was simple: "Ask Saint Joseph to bring your petition to God." Because the sick were coming to the school to see him, parents and community members objected that the students were being exposed to various sicknesses and diseases. It became difficult for Andr~ to meet with those who came to him for prayer. In 1896, the Congregation of Holy Cross purchased a piece of property across the street from the school, near a trolley stop, where the sick could meet with Brother Andr& A small chapel was built in 1904, and in 1909 he was assigned full-time to be in charge of this place of prayer. In 1915 construction began on a larger chapel, the crypt church of the present Oratory of Saint Joseph, to accommodate more people. The number of pilgrims seeking Brother Andre's counsel and Saint Joseph's intercession steadily increased. After comple-tion of the crypt, construction continued and the upper church began to take shape. When funds fell short and the work was suspended prior to the placement of the roof, Brother Andr~ said, "If Saint Joseph wants a roof Review for Religious over his head, he will take care of it." Saint Joseph even-tually did take care of it, but Andr~ was not alive to see it. Over the years Brother Andre's health never improved. Two days after Christmas, 1936, he had a severe attack of indigestion, and a few days later he was admitted to the hospital. In the days that followed, his pain increased; during that time he was constantly pray-ing and asking that God's will be done. On January 4 he went into a coma. Brother Andr6 died at 12:50 AM on 6 January 1937. His body was brought to the Oratory. During the next seven days more than one million people waited in line, in the bitter cold, to pass his body, to touch their rosaries and other objects to it, and to pray. Many extraordinary cures were reported during those days. Saint Andr~ did not live to see the completion of Saint Joseph Oratory as it is today; however, he is buried in the crypt church he knew so well. The Oratory contin-ues to be a place of prayer and pilgrimage. Andre's name is forever linked to that of Saint Joseph because of the obvious similarities between these two saints. Both were simple laborers through whom God chose to do extraordinary things; both knew pov-erty and suffering; both experienced exile. Above all, both remained faithful to whatever God asked of them; both point out to us a pathway to holiness. A Way to Holiness Though Andre's life was filled with miracles and other extraordinary phenomena, our faith teaches us that such things do not de facto constitute a person's holiness. Holiness is not about singular actions within a person's life, regardless of how impressive those may be. Holiness 70.4 2011 True holiness is enduring 390 is reflected through the person's entire life, the complete example that is given to others. Further, the standard for such holiness is not arbitrary; it is nothing less than God's own person. Jesus taught, "Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Mt 5:48). Another transla-tion says, "Be holy, as God in heaven is holy." With the Incarnation, Jesus becomes the standard. Holiness is simply to live as Jesus lived, to love as Jesus loved, to do what Jesus did; we do it in our own lives, in our daily relationships and responsibilities. Each and accessible, time Jesus confronts those . who would sum up the law in terms of what they do or what they have accom-plished, he counters it by referring to the priority of mercy, detachment, compassion, forgiveness, charity-- in brief, following him and his way. We look to people we consider holy for encourage-ment and guidance, for insight about how to follow Jesus. Brother Andre's entire life and example speak to us of following Jesus, of being holy. His is an endur-ing holiness that reaches beyond the historical period in which he lived. His life also reflects an accessible holiness; a way of life that is possible, even though we may never do exactly what Andr~ did. His instruction to us is simple, "Be saints." True holiness is enduring and accessible; temporary holiness is counterfeit and conceited. In our own way, in our own life, we can be holy. Brother Andr4 shows us a pathway to a holy life. What are the recommendations for the way to holiness that Andre's life and example place before us? These reflections will focus on four recommendations. Review for Religious Believe First, believe. Andrd used to say, "God never forgets us." "Never" is a strong word and leaves no room for variation. And yet, that is what our faith teaches us. God is always with us. God always loves us--always, without exception. Do we believe that, without exception? This is the faith to which we are called. The challenge for us emerges when our faith is confronted by experiences that do not speak to us of God, or by events that seem to be in direct contradic-tion to what we hold to be true of a loving God, a good God. Then we are tempted to think that God possibly has forgotten us or is looking the other way for the moment. Yet, faith teaches us that such are God's ways, such is the way that Providence works. We are called to trust Providence, to believe Providence, even when things point in directions that, to all appearances, have nothing to do with God. This was true in Andre's life. The fact that he was admitted to the Congregation of Holy Cross is evidence that God was at work when the normal pointed in the opposite direction. He was not educated, he learned to read very little, and could barely write much beyond his name. His health was always precarious. From a voca-tion perspective, it was uncertain if he would ever have the capability or stamina for any kind of ministry. These facts provided more than sufficient reasons for the com-munity to think that it would be too much of a risk to accept him. Still, Andr~ remained faithful to the work that had been assigned to him and hoped he would be accepted. As he said, "If you do not believe in God, you will get nothing." Andr~ believed; and though his formal acceptance and profession of vows were delayed, he was admitted to Holy Cross. 391 70.4 2011 Giallanza ¯ Be Saints Similarly, the fact that the Oratory came into exis-tence is a testimony to Andre's faith that God, through Saint Joseph, would complete what Andr~ believed God was calling him to do. Even after permission was received from the community to proceed with the con-struction, there were financial setbacks. Each step along the way required the conviction that God and Saint Joseph would provide. Brother Andr~ continued his work as if God and Joseph were already in the process of providing. As con-struction work was well underway, when asked how he had succeeded, Andr6's reply was simple, "I have always left the work of the Oratory in the hands of the good God." In late 1936 and early 1937, when it became evi-dent that Brother Andr~ would die before the comple-tion of the upper basilica, his own perspective never varied: "The good God has no need of me to complete this work. Saint Joseph will see to it." The foundation for our own spiritual life is faith, the conviction that God does not and will not forget us or abandon us. In reality the questions before us are not about God's side of the relationship; rather they arise about our side of the relationship. VChen are the times that I tend to forget God? What experiences or events distract me from God's constant presence to me? What can I do to maintain a conviction about the constancy of God's presence? Pray A second recommendation for the way to holiness that Andr~ teaches us: pray. Andr~ used to encourage others by telling them, "When we pray, God's ear is pressed to our lips." It is an intriguing image for at least two reasons. Review for Religious First, there is an intimacy about the image, illustrat-ing God's desire to be as close to us as possible. There are obviously times when we do not sense or perceive that proximity as a reality. Andr~ assumed it. He believed that God would be near when we prayed regardless of whether we experienced that nearness. Such an insight builds upon the faith that was mentioned as the first rec-ommendation for a way to holiness. There is no incen-tive to pray if we think that the words and thoughts and desires that we bring to prayer simply disappear into a vacuum. To pray at all, we must believe that God is near to us. The Book of Deuteronomy teaches us: This commandment that I am commanding you today is not too hard for you, nor is it too far away. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will go up to heaven for us, and get it for us so that we may hear it and observe it?" Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "Who will cross to the other side of the sea for us, and get it for us so that we may hear it and observe it?" No, the word is very near to you; it is in your mouth and in your heart for you to observe (30:11-14). Such is God's closeness to us when we pray. Second, it is interesting that in this perspective on prayer Brother Andr~ saw God as quite active. He had the firm conviction that God was listening and listening closely. It is God who presses an ear to our lips. God is interested in our prayer and wants to hear what we have to say. It was said by witnesses that Andr~ prayed as if he was speaking to someone from whom he expected an answer. We must be willing to bring the happenings of our daily life into our prayer, honestly and directly. Andr~ used to say, "In prayer, one speaks to God as one speaks to a friend." We can speak to God in this way because there is an intimacy about prayer and because God draws close to us when we pray. 393 70.4 2011 Giallanza * Be Saints Prayer may not be so much about changing the world around us as it is about changing our perspective on that world. 394 Brother Andr4 prayed about what was going on in his life and his ministry. He brought his concerns to God, very explicitly. Whether it was his concern about the continuing development of the Oratory or about the condition of a particular person who had asked for his prayer, he believed that prayer could and would have a real impact in the world. He says in his customary sim-plicity, "If we prayed more, things would go better in the world." Given the complexities of the world in which we live, it would be too easy to dismiss this as naive. And yet, prayer may not be so much about changing the world around us as it is about chang-ing our perspective on that world, enabling us to make a difference, enabling us to see ways in which God is present and active. Genuine prayer always urges us to action; prayer apart from action is no prayer at all. When it came to Saint Joseph, we know that Andr4 had a special relationship with him. For Andr4 it was sim-ply a matter of presenting to Joseph whatever needed to be done and then trusting that it would get done. He said, "If people knew how to pray better, they would obtain everything from Saint Joseph." The challenge is two-fold: first, to be clear regarding what we are praying about; and second, to refer everything to God's will. What we envi-sion as a response to our prayer may or may not be what God has in mind. Praying "better," as Andr4 understood it, required attentiveness to whatever God has in mind. Review for Religious Prayer builds upon the foundation of faith and is necessary for our continued progress and growth in our faith life. Our approach to prayer and our fidelity to prayer say more about its quality than does the actual content and method of our prayer. What is my method of prayer and am I faithful to it? Do I bring to prayer the reality of my everyday life: my hopes, struggles, fears, expectations, aspirations? Is my prayer more a demand or a desire, a litany or a longing, a performance or a passion? Ser~e A third recommendation for the way to holiness: serve. Brother Andrt's sense of service direcdy echoes the gospel; he said, "We cannot love God without lov-ing our neighbor." Service must flow from our prayer. As prayer expresses our love-relationship with God, so service expresses our love for others. Brother Andr6 used to say, "The door of heaven is the heart of Jesus and the key to that door is prayer and love." These two--prayer and love practiced in service--flow into and out of one another. They form a dynamic cycle of our relationship to God and our apostolic relationships with others. Andr~ does not speak about service as much as he speaks about loving others, caring for them, and respond-ing to their needs. Clearly he understood loving others in very practical, immediate terms. Serving others, loving others, in some way engages us with them. Andr6 often said that it was not sufficient to give money in respond-ing to needs; it was also necessary to give compassion from the heart. Money could assure that there would be a distance maintained between ourselves and the reality to which we are responding; compassion demands that we 70.4 2011 Giallanza ¯ Be Saints 396 know about and be touched by the actual circumstances of others. It is clear in studying Brother Andre's example that he was willing to be very engaged in the lives of oth-ers. Witnesses testified that even brief encounters with him left them with the impression that they had been lis-tened to and even known by him much more profoundly than they had anticipated. Brother Andr~ often said that the Lord was our big brother and that we, as little brothers and sisters, have the responsibility to love one another as members of the same family. This is a key theme in the spirituality of the Congregation of Holy Cross. Still, it is especially interesting that Andr~ would use the family as a refer-ence for loving others. His own experience of family, that is, his biological family, was quite disjointed as he was growing up. In fact, his experience of family could have left him bitter or with a feeling of being deserted, due to the death of his parents and the separation from his siblings. Yet he overcame that potentially debilitat-ing reality to grow into a person who genuinely cared for others and responded to their needs. Rather than going through life with a bitterness because he had no natural-family identity, he chose to center his sense of family around the Lord Jesus. And that center was espe-cially necessary because there were times when even his Holy Cross religious family was not very supportive. Brother Andrd is known for his very close relation-ship with Saint Joseph. His mother introduced him. to practices of praying to Saint Joseph and, over time, he developed a strong and intimate relationship with this great saint. However, it is clear that the priority in his life was his love-relationship with Jesus, and he lived that relationship through his service to others. He served simply because that is what Jesus did; as Jesus Review for Religious cared for the people, so too Andrd cared for the people; as Jesus healed, so too he healed. For Andrd this was a very straightforward reality: do what Jesus did and so become like Jesus. Service, in whichever form it takes, demonstrates the reality of our spiritual life. Service--the giving of ourselves, our talents and gifts--is a necessary part of the Christian life. The alterative is that our spiritual life becomes narcissistic and self-enclosed. Neither the type nor the extent of the service that we render to oth-ers is as significant as that we build some form of ser-vice into our life as a way of continuing the mission of Jesus. Our service must be consistent with our gifts and respectful of our priority commitments in life. How do I serve others? In which ways do I continue the mission of Jesus? How has the service that I offer been a source of spiritual growth for me? Trust The fourth recommendation for the way to holi-ness: trust. Trust, in terms of the spiritual life, involves the recognition and acceptance of the abilities we have and the efforts we make to do what our relationship with God and our spiritual life require of us. Trust also involves the conviction that God will support us in those abilities and efforts. Brother Andr6 teaches us, "God does not ask the impossible. God asks that we offer our good intentions, and accept the inconveniences that come with each day, and offer our daily work." Such simplicity reflects Andr6's basic approach to the spiritual life: we do what we can with what we have. But this simplicity should not be equated with ease. Sometimes when we are con-fronted with daily inconveniences and the work that is 397 70.4 2011 Giallanza * Be Saints before us, the good intentions of which Andr~ speaks may not be so evident. Even though God does not ask the impossible, that does not mean that what each day brings to us does not feel impossible or at least over-whelming at times. Trust is to be convinced that God will remain faith-ful, that God will provide the grace we need to be good Christians, even when we encounter difficulties or experience setbacks. If we do not believe that God will remain faithful, we will gradually move toward discour-agement and, in the worst case, despair. Andr6's recom-mendation is explicit: "We must pray that God does not abandon us in our trials and pray to accept with confi-dence the trials that the good God judges appropriate for us to carry." Trust is especially necessary when confronting the cross, of whatever kind. We know that Andr~ most certainly had his share of crosses, both from the Holy Cross community and from those outside Holy Cross. Brother Andr6 speaks about the cross and about trusting God in the midst of experiencing the cross. However the cross comes, it is yet another expression of God's love for us; it is part of our transformation into the liv-ing likeness of Jesus; it is part of resurrection. This is why. Andr~ refers to trials that "the good God judges appropriate for us to carry." He saw the cross in our life as part of God's will even as it was in Jesus' own life. He said to someone who did not see any improvement in a bothersome physical condition, "If it is God's will that you be sick, why would you refuse to accomplish God's will?" The appropriateness of the crosses we carry is based upon what we need for our transformation. It also reflects our capacity to carry a particular cross and our openness to the grace necessary for carrying that cross. Review for Religious Brother Andre's name is tightly linked with that of Saint Joseph, and yet it is said by those who knew him well that his principal devotion was to the Passion of Christ. They said he spoke of the Passion as if he had lived it. This makes perfect sense for one who expe-rienced many obstacles along the pathways that he believed God was calling him to follow. And, beyond that, it makes perfect sense for one who shares in the heritage that Father Moreau, as founder, passed on to the Congregation of Holy Cross. Accepting the Passion of Christ as a model for our life requires trust, the con-viction that what we experience will truly lead to our transformation into the living likeness of Jesus, that it will guide us to resurrection. Andr6 is a saint, but if we distance him from us, then we make it impossible to use his example as a support for our own life. Each of us has ~he potential to be a saint. To realize that potential we must trust that God will give us the graces we need. The alternative to trust is self-reli-ance; it is to assume that we are self-contained in terms of the resources we need to be holy. Trust is practiced by fixing our attention on God, accomplishing our everyday responsibilities, and placing our gifts at the service of oth-ers. Do I trust that God will give me the graces I need to be a good Christian? When have I experienced trust as essential for my continued spiritual growth? Which crosses have been the most transformative in my life? "I Have Asked to be Always in God's Presence" When asked about his own prayer and spiritual life and what he was called to do, Brother Andr~ said, "I have asked to be always in God's presence." Whatever images we may have of him, his work and his miracles, it is interesting that his desire was simply to be in God's 399 70.4 2011 Giallanza ¯ Be Saints 400] presence, to do what he did in cooperation with God. At another point he said, "We must not be attached to earthly things, otherwise we cannot be attached to God." To be one with God, to be attached to God - this was his deepest longing. And that constitutes Andre's holiness more than any of the extraordinary accomplish-ments that occurred during his life or since his death. For him, this union with God, this being in God's presence, was essentially an act of love. He frequently recommended, "Pray to obtain a true love for God." A true love for God would be reflected in the desire to be ever close to God, to complete God's will, to live those qualities of life that are reflected in the gospel: humility, faith, compassion, generosity, patience, etc. It is interesting that, in commenting on his ministry, Andr~ once said, "It is su.rprising that people often ask me for healings, but rarely for humility, for the spirit of faith." While a particular healing might be important in response to what a person was suffering, he believed the priorities for the spiritual life were more closely related to humility and faith than to any healing. Before Brother Andr6 died, his last words were, "This is the seed.;' Though it is an allusion to several gospel texts, he did not expand on his statement; so we can reflect on this self-description from several perspec-tives. All of them can give us some insight into the way to holiness that Andr6 points out to us. In Matthew's Gospel, in the parable of the sower, Jesus says, "As for the seed that was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hun-dredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty" (13:23). The seed in this case is God's word that is meant to bear fruit. It is evident that Andrd's life has produced fruit Review for Religious far beyond what he may have imagined. Responding to God's word was for him a simple act of love. As he often recommended, "Love Jesus as he has loved us, effectively and openly." This is what it means to receive the word and have it grow within our life. In Luke's Gospel, while teaching the crowds, Jesus says, "What is the kingdom of God like? And to what should I compare it? It is like a mustard seed that someone took and sowed in the garden; it grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air made nests in its branches" (13:18-19). The seed in this case is a very small, even minuscule, real-ity that becomes ~ large enough to welcome and sustain life. As Brother Andr~ said on more than one occasion, "The Oratory is the work of the good God." Andr~ sowed a small seed, even in the midst of opposition and criticism; today it is clear how extensive the influence of the Oratory is. It continues to be a place where people find comfort and healing for their life, refreshment and encouragement for their faith. Also in Luke's Gospel, when the apostles ask for an increase in faith, Jesus responds, "If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you" (17:5-6). In this instance the seed is faith that accomplishes what needs to be done. The amount of faith is not of significance to Jesus; some mustard grains are almost like powder. It is the conviction and confidence underlying faith that make the difference. If we could be The priorities for the spiritual life were more closely related to humility and faith than to any healing. 401 70.4 2011 Giallanza ¯ Be Saints 402 one with God's will, our faith would have the same effec-tiveness as Jesus' own. What Andr~ did, he did in faith, confident that God and Saint Joseph would respond. He used to say, "You must submit yourself to God's will; it is the teacher of everything." Andr~ had learned well God's will; in his work for the development of the Oratory and in his healing ministry, the confidence and strength that came from that learning are clearly evident. In John's Gospel, Jesus teaches, "Truly, I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just a single grain; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (12:24). In this case the seed is the death that leads to new life. This may very well be the seed with which Brother Andrd identified himself. His perspec-tive, not only on the Oratory, but on everything he did, was that God and Saint Joseph were doing what needed to be done. His own task was to remain close to God and to accept whatever came. He had learned that close-ness to God came at a price. He said, "The closer one is to God, the more one suffers." There was dying to do as the Oratory developed; more than once plans did not go exactly as Andr6 had hoped or envisioned they would. But he remained faithful because he knew that God had called him to do this. " Brother Andr~ could say "This is the seed" near the end of his life precisely because that is what he had been throughout his whole life. Regardless of the gospel lens through which we reflect on his words, Brother Andrd has become a seed. His life has become an example of living God's word; of believing that the smallest efforts, if sincere, can produce enormous results; of bringing faith to all that we do; and of dying to self so that new life may emerge. Review for Religious "Be Saints" Brother Andr6's exhortation is simple: "Be saints." The assumption in this, of course, is that we can be saints. The truth is, we can. We do have the potential for a holy life, within our own life. As Andr6's example has been and continues to be a seed of encouragement for countless people, so too we are called to be a seed for others. The soil necessary for that seed to flourish requires that we believe and pray, serve and trust. These will provide the fertile ground that is the foundation for the pathway to a holy life. Reference Quotations of Brother Andr~ are taken from Frbre Andrd disait souvent. (Saint Joseph Oratory; Montreal: Editions Fides, 2010). Translation provided by the author. Imagining the Journey Retracing the route from the San Salvador airport taken by the four North American churchwomen on 2 December 1980 What did they do, I wonder, when the road turned toward death ? Gaze at the sleeping corn, longing to taste harvest? Pass by the gnarled ginger root tree, with hope for the next day's shade? Did they sense the holy ones gathered around them, arms outstretched in welcome? Did they reach for the hand of another who also trembled, finding courage and comfort in her clasp? Did they, I wonder, hold the shining beauty of this world for one last fleeting moment? Chris Koellhoffer IHM 403 70.4 2011 JOHN M. SAMAHA St. Joseph in Focus: Husband of Mary and Guardian of Jesus 404 Hw)w much do we know about the man who as the husband of the Mother of Jesus and the guardian of our Redeemer? St. Joseph is the often-overlooked member of the Holy Family. Scripture says little of him. We seem to give him scant attention. Yet devotion to St. Joseph has deep roots in Christian tradi-tion. Just how do we honor and appreciate him? Do you remember when, as children in Catholic school, we wrote "J.M.J." at the top of our papers? We did so to remind ourselves to have the same intentions that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph had in life. Husband of Mary We must remember that Mary and Joseph are a couple. And Jesus is their child. We picture the mem-bers of the Holy Family side by side. They belong Brother Jolm M. Samaha SM writes from Marianist Center; 22683 Alcalde Road; Cupertino, California 95014. Review for Relig$ous together. When separated, their significance in God's plan of salvation is clouded, because their importance lies in their relationship to each other. While honor-ing the perpetual virginity of Mary, we cannot disre-gard Joseph's privilege and happiness of being Mary's husband. Artwork has often depicted Joseph as an old man--possibly so that he would seem to be less of a threat to Mary's virginity. Such depictions tended to undervalue the loving relationship of Mary and Joseph as husband and wife. St. Teresa of Avila, for one, always insisted that Joseph was a young man when he married Mary. The special preface for Joseph the Husband of Mary in the Eucharistic Liturgy reinforces this positive approach: "With a husband's love he cherished Mary, the Virgin Mother of God." Foster Father of Jesus Since Joseph is the husband of Mary, he is also father to Jesus. While we know that Joseph was not the physical father of Jesus, Luke, in the gospel account about Jesus being lost in the temple, has Mary say to Jesus: "Son, your father and I have been searching for you in sorrow." And the preface cited above goes on to testify: "With fatherly care he watched over Jesus Christ your son, conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit." If one were to think that Joseph's fatherhood was diminished because he did not physically procreate Jesus, let that person speak with adoptive parents-- especially the ones who have conceived a child of their own and adopted others. They will let you know how real Joseph's fatherhood is. Head of the Holy Family Joseph played an important role as Jesus "grew in 405 70.4 2011 Samaba * St. ~osepb in Focus 406 wisdom, age, and grace before God and men." In the Jewish tradition children were in the special care and tutelage of their mothers until they reached the age of five. Beyond that age children came under the special guidance of their fathers. Joseph was the rabbi of the Holy Family and it was his duty and privilege to teach Jesus the Jewish faith and practices. Joseph would have led his family in worship in their home at Nazareth. At meal times both Mary and Jesus looked to Joseph at the head of the table to offer the prayer of blessing. Each year when the Passover was celebrated, the youngster Jesus played his role and addressed the ritual question to Joseph: "Father, why is this night different from every other night?" Then he listened with his mother to Joseph's narration of the glorious events of the Exodus and the explanation of the meaning of the paschal lamb. He could easily have recalled Joseph's explanation years later when he heard John the Baptizer proclaim him the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world. When Jesus was of age, Joseph introduced him to syn-agogue worship and the rituals to which Jesus remained faithful throughout his life. Joseph also taught Jesus the skills of a carpenter. By practicing this trade Jesus sup-ported himself and his mother after Joseph's death. Jesus' human experience of fatherhood was drawn from his relationship with Joseph. When Jesus said, "What father would hand his son a stone when he asks for a loaf, or a poisonous snake when he asks for a fish," surely he had in mind Joseph's gentle kindness to him as he was growing up. When Jesus told the parable of the prodigal son, Joseph could easily have been the model of the loving father in the story. As Jesus described how the father Review for Religious embraced and welcomed the son who had been lost, might he have been recalling how Joseph hugged and kissed him after he had been lost in the temple for three days? When Jesus taught us how to pray, he began with the same loving tide, abba, with which he had addressed Joseph all his life. His deep affection for Joseph is evident in scene after scene throughout the Gospels. Joseph obviously made a profound impression on Jesus. St. Joseph's Relation to Us Has Joseph made an impression on us? How do we think of St. Joseph? How do we honor him and pray to him? Do we appreciate the special place he has in Christian spirituality and in our own heritage? Let us wholeheartedly revere the husband of Mary, the foster father of Jesus, the patron of the universal Church. He is, after all, the man who is closest to Christ. Surprise Visit We much preferred Him At a distance. He could not be bought. He would not be made Into a code, A ritual Or a system. Our minds simply Could not contain Him. We wanted a distant Diety. How were we to know He would come close enough To wear our wounds ? Teresa Burleson 407 70.4 2011 potpourri CAREY ELLEN WALSH Lighting Our Modern Spirit: Pope John Paul II's Luminous Mysteries Pope John Paul II was unmistakably a Marian pope, as shown by his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, his visits to prominent sites of Marian apparitions, and his papal motto, Totus Tuus ("Totally Yours") addressed to Mary--all this in an age when Marian devotion had gone into public decline. The Catholic faithful seemed either to love this about their pope or to for-give it as the pious by-product of his hav-ing grown up under Nazi, then Communist, oppression and having lost his mother at the tender age of eight.1 Both reactions missed the theological aspect of John Paul II's pastoral leadership of the church. Mary, for John Paul II, is not relegated to private devotion, but is the "school" for a 408 Carey Ellen Walsh, an associate professor of theology, is a Benedictine Oblate of St. Meinrad's and teaches theology at Villanova University. Her research inter-ests include biblical theology and Catholic spiritualities. Review for Religious new evangelization in the modern world. She invites us to communal study, deepens our understanding of the gospel, and so eases our isolation. As pastor of the universal church, the pope was drawing on an image of the familiar and universal--a mother's love for her child--as a means for spiritual nourishment. Yet because he used the ancient devotion of the rosary, the spiritual contribution of his example in learning from Mary has not received sufficient attention. It is the intent of this essay to demonstrate the spiritual gift of John Paul II's meditation on the rosary. For a pope's foremost role is that of pastor, with "supreme, full, immediate, and uni-versal power in the care of souls.''2 My focus therefore is precisely on how John Paul II's Marian reflections tend to the hunger in our souls. Given his devotion to Mary, it was no surprise when John Paul II recommended anew the rosary as a devotion and declared October 2002-October 2003 as the Year of the Rosary (Rosarium Virginis Mariae). He wrote lovingly of Mary in the gospels, shared the influence the rosary had had on his own life, and suggested that the rosary was a "school of Mary''3 for learning about Christ. It was, indeed, one of his most intimate reflections. What did occasion surprise, however, was that the pope added a new set of mysteries, the luminous, to the long established joyous, sorrowful, and glorious myster-ies- something no one had done for eight centuries, although many popes had written on the rosary.4 In fact, from the start the rosary had been pre-eminently a prayer of the laity, not of the hierarchy. It had first arisen as a popular practice in tandem with the monastic recitation of the Psalter. The 150 Hail Marys recited in the people's prayer, the rosary, corresponded to the 150 psalms, chanted by the monkss and gave a way for 409 70.4 2011 Walsh ¯ Lighting Our Modern Spirit Theology was no abstraction with this pope~ He used it to electrify~ and empower his hearers. 41:0 the laity to contemplate scenes from the gospel. This is how the rosary long functioned in the prayer life of Chris6ans who were largely illiterate. After considering why John Paul II thought it neces-sary for the papal office to enhance this lay devotional prayer, I will assess the theological reason for his having done so. While the pope could easily have been accused of authoritarian interven-tion in the private devo-tions of the faithful, or have been dismissed as a retrograde pope clinging to a pre-Vatican II tradi-tionalism, his Rosarium Virginis Mariae honors the lay contribution to tra-dition and was in accord with the Second Vatican Council's definition of the church as the "People of God," in which the laity plays an important participatory role. One consequence of the council's definition of the church as the people of God, rather than primarily as a clerical institution, was the erosion of the line between popular piety and theology. From the start, this pope's audience was the church as People of God, not the curia. This was evident in his use of the media, his international appearances, his World Youth Days, the popularity of his international best-seller Crossing the Threshold of Hope, and in the response of lay workers under Communist Poland who, heed-ing their pope's conviction on the dignity of all human beings, brought down the Iron Curtain. Theology was no abstraction with this pope. He used it to electrify and empower his hearers. In an age that saw the aban- Review for Religious donment of churches in Europe and the United States, he nourished the church spiritually by returning to the foundations of the faith. When John Paul wrote on the rosary, he did not segregate the professional theologians from believers in the pew, but embodied the Second Vatican C

Issue 61.2 of the Review for Religious, 2002. ; Examen .Living with God Growing Older Religious Eife Perspectives MARCH APRIL 2002 VOLUME 61 NUMBER 2 Review for Relig4ous helps people respond and be faithful ~ to God's universal call to holiness by making available ~to them the spiritual legacies that flow from the charisms of CathOlic consecratea life. Review for Religious (ISSN 0034-639X) is published bimonthly at Saint Louis University by the Jesuits of the Missouri Province. Editorial Office: 3601 Lindell Boulevard ¯ St. Louis, Missouri 63108-3393 Telephone: 314-977-7363 ¯ Fax: 314-977-7362 E-Mail: review@slu.edu ¯ Web site: www.reviewforreligious.org Manuscripts, books for review, and correspondence with the editor: Review for Religious ¯ 3601 Lindell Boulevard ¯ St. Louis, MO 63108-3393 Correspondence about the Canonical Counsel department: Elizabeth McDonough OP Mount St. Mary's Seminary; Emmitsburg, Maryland 21727 POSTMASTER Send address changes to Review for Religious ¯ P.O. Box 6070 ¯ Duluth, MN 55806. Periodical postage paid at St. Louis, Missouri, and additional mailing offices. See inside back cover for information on subscription rates. ©2002 Review for Religious Permission is herewith granted to copy any material (articles, poems, reviews) contained in this issue of Review for Religious for personal or internal use, or for the personal or internal use of specific library clients within the limits outlined in Sections 107 and/or 108 of the United States Copyright Law. All copies made under this permission must bear notice of the source, date, and copyright owner on the first page. This permission is NOT extended to copying for commercial distribu-tion, advertising, institutional promotion, or for the creation of new collective works or anthologies. Such permission will only be considered on written applicatign to the Editor, Review for Religious. L VING OUR CATHOLIC LEGACIES Editor Associate Editors Canonical Counsel Editor Editorial Staff Advisory Board David L. Fleming SJ Clare Boehmer ASC Philip C. Fischer SJ Elizabeth McDonough OP Mary Afin Foppe Tracy Gramm Judy Sharp ~Adarmiaens G~.nadu dJoinan S. CFelling Sr. Raymond Marie Gerard FSP Eugene Hensell OSB Ernest E. Larkin OCarm Bishop Carlos'A. Sevilla SJ Miriam D. Ukeritis CsJ MARCH APRIL 2002 VOLUME 61 NUMBER 2 contents 118 feature Examen: Persons in Relationships Joseph A. Tetlow sJ provides new insights by focusing examen on our many personal relationships in daily life. 129 137 living with God No Rapine in the Holocaust: Eremitical Life Today Karen Karper Fredette surveys some of the different forms eremitical life has taken in a fresh flowering in church life today. Metaphysical Self in Other Mystical Traditions James J. Magee defines metaphysical self as one's self residing in God and God residing in it and then examines this term as it appears in Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, and Muslim (Sufl) mysticism. 146 growing older Aging: Spiritually Present to the Burning Bush Geraldine M. Wodarczyk CSFN reflectively enters us into her six-year experience of living among her own congregation's aging and prayerful sisters. Review for Religious 166 Coping with Repetition: A Spirituality for Ministering to the Elderly Helen Jean Novy HM proposes some spiritual considerations to guide our responses to the repetitiousness of sick/elderly people. 169 religious ~i~e perspectives Medaille's "Means" and Religious Life's Renewal Joan Wagner ssJ focuses on six "means" derived from Father Medaille's writings that nourish religious community life. 183 The Decline of Religious Life: A Success Story Michael Dominic W. Ledoux OFM asks whether the next task for religious congregations is to let go of our hold on institutions and ministries and allow them to find a charism based upon their own stories and histories rather than being too strongly attached to religious communal stories. " 191 Membership and Leadership: An Organic Whole Beatrice M. Eichten OSF sketches out the patterns of interworking between leaders and members that enhance effective leadership in community life. flepar men s 116 Prisms 202 Canonical Counsel: Exclaustration: Further Considerations 211 Book Reviews March-April 2002 115 prisms Jesus' transfiguration was a favorite passage of the Jesuit paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. With his own description of evo-lution progressing by crossing thresholds, he found the transfigured Jesus giving promise of crossing the threshold from being Jesus a marginal Jew to being the risen Christ Pantocrator. Whatever our response to evolutionary theory, the crossing of thresholds gives insight into words and images used to describe the mysteries of our Catholic faith. We seem to be unaware that in faith we have crossed a .threshold between commonsense language and language bursting with faith realities. For exam-ple, our scripture and prayer language in the Lenten and Easter seasons describes redemption as our being purchased at a price. Sometimes this has led to the preaching and imaging of God paying off the devil by Jesus' passion and death. So we--the human race-- were bought at the cost of Jesus' death in order to release us from the grip of the evil one. At other times, it seems that our language has seen God as being appeased or satisfied by the pain and suffering and blood shed by his Son. And we have wondered: What kind of God is this? The New Testament writers built upon the imagery of the Hebrew Scriptures and presumed a poetic under-standing of the religious world. Following Scripture and inspired by their own culture and times, theolo-gians, artists, and spiritual writers over the centuries have all contributed, with mixed results, to various ways of understanding and celebrating the central mystery of our salvation/redemption. In the United States, with R~view for Reli~o~s our sometimes sanitized religious worship removing us from devotional or emotional involvement, we still tend to slip back to a rather morbid focusing on physical pain and the shedding of blood in Lenten prayer and especially in the Holy Week triduum. Perhaps we find ourselves praying with an unhealthy fixation on pain and suffering as the way to God. We need to acknowledge that Holy Thursday has more than just a chronological precedence to Good Friday. The Eucharist is key to a solidly Christian approach to the Passion and Cross, one that is psychologically and spiritually sound and healthy. As St. Ignatius Loyola points out, Jesus' institution of the Eucharist is "the greatest mark of his love." We may be surprised that it is not Jesus' passion and death that help us to understand the Eucharist, but it is the other way around. The Eucharist shows us that Jesus holds nothing back from us in his love. He gives all that he is, sacramentally, to be the food and drink of our life, a life in the same bloodline as God. The word redeemer from its Hebrew derivation points to one taking on the obligations of blood or familial relationship. In itself redeemer does not imply pain or suffering. In the Hebrew Scriptures redeemer describes God in this familial relation to his chosen people. In Jesus we see God fulfilling the redemption of all peoples. By instituting the Eucharist, Jesus intends that the sacramental "nowness" of a blood relationship--the reality of our being adopted as God's sons and daughters--is to be celebrated in our daily living. We have the saying that "love costs." On Holy Thursday Jesus is showing sacramentally that he pays whatever it costs. That is how much he loves us and loves his Father. All our scrip-tural words about payment--ransoming us with his blood, pur-chasing us for a price, and so on--are images, sometimes confusingly used, looking towards the heartfelt truth that "love costs." But God is not paying off anyone. Jesus is not buying us back from the devil. It is the reality that "love costs." Jesus shows us the face of the God who does not count the cost to show his love. The Eucharist is our key to all the events of the Passion and Death. The key presents itself to us every time we look at the crucifix, every time we come forward for Communion. We are invited to cross a faith threshold, thereby experiencing anew God as Love and our identity as beloved. David L. Fleming SJ II7 March-April 2002 JOSEPH A. TETLOW feature Examen: Persons in Relationships You are likely to take account of your relationships with others whe'never you make the examen that St. Ignatius Loyola recommends. But why? Deep down in our own hearts, is there not plenty for God and me to do, without distractions from all sides? Actually, no, and for good reasons. The first reason comes from revelation. The human person is created in the likeness of a God who is One only and also Three Persons. This impenetra-ble mystery reveals to us that each of the Persons has identity only in and through the relations among the Three. It is in that likeness that your own "person" is modeled: you are a person only in your relationships. You will always be your mother's child and your father's offspring, always your siblings' brother or sis-ter. Moreover, it is in and through those relationships and others--teachers, neighbors, friends, even ene-mies- that you have become the person you are. To tell who Jesus of Nazareth is, Matthew begins with a genealogy. After telling about incarnation and birth, he goes right to Jesus' relationship with John the Baptist. Joseph A. Tedow SJ last wrote for us in September-October 1998. His address is Secretariate for Ignatian Spirituality; C.P. 6139; 00195 Roma Prati; Italy. Review for Religious Here is the second reason, closer to the everyday, for doing this exercise. You are always relating to your family, where per-sonhood (self) takes early shape and within which you continue to develop throughout life. You work with others, creating another set of day-to-day relationships. You may belong to a religious community, requiring you to develop a subtle lifelong set of relationships with persons whom God has chosen for you. You may belong to an apostolic team--parish, school, center, hospital, program--which requires cooper-ation and planning. All of these relation-ships require attention and prayer, since "we are all parts of one another" and together we make up the Body of Christ (Rm 12:5). As a very practical matter, this exercise might be a regular part of the prayer of those who work in apostolic partnerships. These are not simple in the church today, and a lot of "personality conflicts" disguise rather dis-orderly emotions and affects. Moreover, a lot of apostolic planning and community planning gets scuttled because of unre-flected- upon personal relationships. Teams and communities commonly blame "the process" for failed planning, when the actual problem is the relationships among the members. This examen, besides helping you know whom to thank God for, helps reveal and even heal such dysfunctional relationships. There are reasons why everyone would benefit from this special exercise. Every life today is plagued in some measure by individualism and alienation. One consequence affects the examen. Even when examining how you are getting along with others, you tend to focus on your own part in the relationship-- "How am I doing?"mand less on the other or on the relation-ship itself. This exercise challenges that focus on the self. It draws you to appreciate, for the right reasons, the people whom God has put into your life. "Each of us should think of our neighbors and help them to become stronger Christians" (see Rm 15:2). You enact individualism by thinking about yourself in isolation rather than in relationships with others. This examen asks you to look directly at the others in your life and the relationships that hold you together in Christ. Every life today is plagued in some measure by individualism and alienation. 119 March-April 2002 Tetlow * Examen Your relationships are where, and the deepest reason why, you exercise the virtues of prudence, justice, fortitude, and tem-perance and a host of others that are needed in order to love the way Jesus loves. Relationships, especially your family and community relationships but also your apostolic and job rela-tionships, are where you give in to sins of pride, covetousness, lust, envy, anger, gluttony, and sloth. If you find this hard to believe, perhaps you really need to do this exercise for a while. Here is the last and ultimate reason to use an examen specif-ically about your relationships: to make sure you are loving the way Jesus loves. Ignatius's Contemplation on Love--the more descriptive title would be "Contemplation to learn to love the way God loves"--begins with two prenotes. The first is that love "ought to manifest itself in deeds rather than in words," and the second is that love consists in constantly sharing, the lover and the beloved giving and receiving in open generosity (SpEx §231). This is how Jesus loves, always in relationship with the Other and the others. This exercise takes you directly to the issue whether you are loving as Jesus loved or are, in actu-ality, doing something else. Practicing the Exercise What is recommended here can be used as a single exercise, in which case it will require a long period of quiet time. It has been used profitably as the material for an eight-day retreat. Once you have gone through it for a while, however, you will know which parts of it to apply on a given day or occasion. You will know that sometimes you need to run through and examine all of your relationships: family, friends, work, community mem-bers, parish council, and so forth. At other times you will want to examine something that has happened, like a disagreement that left you far more unsettled than the matter deserved, or a deci-sion not to phone someone. This exercise will help you to uncover your true purposes, responses, and responsibilities. You can think about one partner or colleague; you can look at one group or committee or team. And so on. (The exercise as it is given here is divided into five sections, following its Ignatian inspiration.) First, taking time to thank God for those whom the Spirit has put into your life. A good way to do this is by making three columns Review for Religious on a sheet of paper. In the first, write some names (parent, sibling, friend, coworker), choosing those who belong to the period you are covering. If you are moving historically through your life, you would begin with parents or grandparents; if you are covering your life situation today, you would name the people with .whom you relate regularly. In the second column, across from each name, write the relationship you have with this person. You might want to add some details beyond a mere title. For instance, to "childhood friend" you might add "first date"; to parent, "died too young"; to colleague, "real partner." This assigning of titles may not be entirely simple. Choosing the appropriate title for a sibling.who is also a lifelong inti-mate friend and a business partner would take some thought--thought precisely about the relationship that you are given and choosing. Then, in the third column, for which you will need plenty of space, describe the relationship you have with this person. How has this person helped shape your self and your life, in the past or more recently? For instance, "rooted me in Christ" about a deeply religious and well-informed parent who established you in your faith. A trust-worthy friend may have told you the truth about yourself and your opinions and decisions, bringing you to know yourself before God. This step will give you grounds for a good deal of thanksgiving. Someone taught you to read and write. Someone showed you how to play your favorite sport. Someone intro-duced you to the Scripture.s. Someone challenged you to for-giveness because he or she not only hurt your feelings but did you harm. Someone may have betrayed you as Judas betrayed your Master. In this examen you probe how you relate to these people, not only how you feel about them, but especially what you have done and are doing in this relationship. In every instance your Creator and Lord is giving you an array of gen-erous gifts, sometimes surprising ones, freely and constantly, gifts for you to be thankful for. There is no gift as great as the gift of a faithful friend or lover who means only good for you. 12I March-April 2002 Tetlow ¯ Examen People know that there is, no gift as great as the gift of a faithful friend or lover who means only "good for you. So here is occasion to name the influences that such persons have had on your values and choices. You may well have adopted a friend's special perspective on the church or on parenting. You may become a member of a solid program because a friend invited you into it. You may have made a life-shaping choice under his or her influence. This point is well worth dwelling on, because through these relationships God is moment by moment creat-ing us as persons. Whom has God put into your life to give it shape? How have they shaped it? How do you relate to them? Here is the core of this exercise. Thanking God for these friends and relations will be incom-plete- and perhaps impossible--unless we consciously approve of how God is even now creating us and those we relate with. If you have an elderly parent who is still clear and keenly interested in your life, that is a great gift. An equally great gift is an elderly parent who depends entirely on you. If you have colleagues who depend on you, that is a gift. So is it when there are colleagues on whom you can depend. And sons or daughters will be their parents' sons or daughters forever, however they may be doing just now. The members of a religious community--real persons--are the living environment of each religious's living, growing, and dying. This exercise asks that you grow conscious of a reality we take so much for granted that we do not think about it at all. How often do you note that the sun rose this morning? How much do you value the water that comes from your tap? We treat our relationships rather like that. They are just there. They do not take thinking about except in special circumstances like an argument or a celebration. But every day each relation is a gift greater than today's sun, and each person given you to love and to be loved by is as indispensable to your thriving as the pure water that you drink without giving it a thought. Prayer Lord Jesus Christ, when you walked this earth you lived a family life with neighbors and friends. When you began to spread the Good News, You gathered around you seventy-two, and twelve, and three, who were precious to you, each in a special way, because Review for Religious the Spirit of Love gave them to you. Never has there been a companion better than you, a colleague more trusting and compassionate, a partner more giving and generous. Help me to know those many, those most special ones whom the Spirit of Love has given me in my life, and, with you, to thank the Father for the gift of them. Amen. Second, asking for attention, insight, and courage. Call on the Holy Spirit to let you pay attention to the others in your life. Ask to feel real interest in others, to get outside yourself and your interior concerns to see the people around you as they are. Ask to pay this attention in the way that God does, who hates nothing he has created and lets rain fall on just and unjust alike. Ask for insight into each person and into your relationship. Some are growing more important in your life, and perhaps some are growing away from you. Ask to know how. Ask the Spirit to let you see what you are looking at, and also to let you hear what you are listening to--from and about those whom the Spirit has given you. Finally, beg for the courage to see clearly and to affirm your connections to others, to feel how they have grown into your life and yourself. How have you reached out to them and perhaps risked something to know and love them? Ask boldness to assert your attachments to others, or your detachment and distanc-ing. Ask to be able to see how another or others are calling you to grow or, alternatively, how another or others are inviting you to be less authentic. Prayer Spirit of the risen Lord, who moved the Holy One to care for friends with his still-wounded hands and pierced heart, make me attentive to my friends even with my fearing toudh and wearing spirit. Open my eyes to see what gifts they really are; open my ears to hear what good they really mean to say. Brace my spirit to feel what they need me to feel. And, as you steeled the heart of Jesus while he lived misunder-stood and then betrayed, brace me now--while I find how I have fared in risking my self--to remain true to who I am ~and to be open in giving and receiving love. Amen. March-April 2002 Tetlow ¯ Examen Third, examining how relationships are doing. To begin with, stay with relationships that are going well. Simply look down the three columns you have written and note the name, relation-ship, and influence, and let yourself be contented in Christ with this love that falls into his pattern of loving. Using the columns is an effective way of examining relationships, but there are other ways. You could begin with the persons most closely related to you by blood and move out through extended family to friends. Or begin with the people you spend most of your daytime with, colleagues, coworkers, and so on. You could begin with superiors and move to those who answer to you. All of these steps could be limited to a smaller set of people if that would be useful at this time. Then come to those relationship that are not going well. Possible failures are sometimes glaring, like anger or blatantly selfish action, and sometimes quite subtle and complex. For every relationship is triune: one person, the relationship, and another person, and all three matter. Honestly and exactingly lay five templates (to be described below) over each conflicted or faltering relationship. As you con-template your relationship with each person under each tem-plate, demand an account of yourself, for failures in relationships show up in many ways and manifest many personality limitations or flaws, or simple sins. For instance, perhaps you find yourself saying negative things about an old friend's character. What has happened in this r~lationship and what is your responsibility for it? What are you doing or failing to do that damages the rela-tionship, or the mission you share with this person (or persons)? These failures or dysfunctions can be variously accounted for. One way is by looking at them under five categories (which I borrow from Roberta Gilbert's Extraordinary Relationships). The categories will help you look clearly and honestly at any fal-tering relationship. They will demand that you take your respon-sibility for what you have done, what you are doing, what you must do, to make this relationship a strong and holy one. The Templates 1. Conflict. You cannot come to agreement with another in some serious matter. You have never got- Review for Religious ten over a rancorous argument. You answer each other with "yes, but." You are losing respect for the person. You question whether you can ever work together again. Any of these suggests a relationship of conflict, which is often a hot relationship. 2. Distancing. You hold each other at arm's length. You have become very polite to each other and a lit-tle standoffish. You rarely talk about anything serious; instead, you chat. You would deal as openly and warmly with a stranger. You would simply rather not have to pay attention to this person anymore. You are uncomfortable around him or her. This is distancing, and, though it seems to suggest that you have no relationship with this person, you have--a special one. 3. Cutting Off. You stay out of each other's way. You do not communicate even when you have to convey some information. You simply do not like this per-son. Your judgment is that this person is harming the family, community, apostolate. You would like to be rid of this person. This is a cutoff, and it is an intense relationship. 4. Excessive Mutual Dependency. You depend on each other, too much or far too much. One of you makes the decisions. One of you needs the emotional support of the other, and the other needs to give it. Others see you as a pair. You are cutting others out of this relationship, emotionally or practically. This is excessive dependency--in a way, too much of a relationship. 5. Triangling. You have an issue with another and, instead of going to the other, take it to a third person. You find yourself saying things about this person, not to him or h~r, but to others. You gossip about this person. You complain about his or her shortcomings to others, never to the person. Alternatively, you passively allow others to tell you things about this person which they ought to be saying to him or her. 6. Could there be another template? You may find a March-April 2002 Tetlow ¯ Examen better term for a ~elationship in your life that is faltering, a term that clarifies for you what you are doing and might do. The Applications When you are on a team with another, you are not free to remain unrelated. The only issue is how you will choose to relate: whether well or badly, creatively or destructively, and, indeed, holily or unholily--all the more, of course, within your own family or among those who have somehow become your friends. Each of the five templates names a relationship--dysfunc-tional, but a relationship. It is crucial to accept that you are related to a person even when you cut him or her off, or are constantly arguing and debating with him or her, or when you are triangling. Humility demands--since it is truth--that you affirm your own contribution to making a relationship bad, or your cooperation in any dysfunctional relationship. Each of your relationships will have its own intensities, its own occasions, its own mixture of the apostolic, social, intel-lectual, affective, and so on. Each lays on you the light yoke of responsibility to accept the relationship as a gift from God, who is giving you freedom and the chance to love as God loves. When you find that one of the templates describes a current relationship, you will have to look into your heart more deeply to find out what is going on. At the same time, you will have to keep aware that the relationship has its own life and tempo, and that there is always "the other" or "the others." Prayer Jesus of Nazareth, my good brother, you worked with many and loved many. You loved aging laborers and the idle rich. You loved holy sisters and disrep-utable women. You worked with tax collectors and scribes. You chose partners who doubted and one who betrayed. You chose them, accounted for your choices to the Father, and stood by your friends to the end. Let me find my way in sureness and in risk, and give me courage to name those I relate to and clarity to know our shared responsibility. Help me to Review for Religious give my account to the Father and to stand by my friends to the end. Amen. Fourth, asking forgiveness for your sins and healing for those you have wounded and for yourself. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." This is the only condi-tion in the prayer Jesus taught. You cannot overestimate the weight of forgiving others. Yours, after all, is "the ministry of reconciliation," for you are in mission with Jesus Christ. You cannot expect forgiveness and the experience of reconciliation, except to the extent that you have forgiven and become recon-ciled with others. This is no trivial matter, and as good a reason as any to make an examen something like this one. Pray for those whom you have failed, or offended, or hurt. You need to beg the Spirit of Love to make up for your short-comings. Prayer Holy Triune God, in you, giving and taking barely differ since both are done as love. I have taken and not given. I have given what I did not mean to give and not given what I wish I had, so far, so very far, am I from loving as you love. Grant'me to be close to you in this, at least: that I forgive wholeheartedly those who wound me, as Jesus forgave those who wounded him. And then I ask that you forgive me and make up for all that I have left undone. Amen. F~h, choosing to do one thing tomorrow. You are wise to choose a single act to do, a concrete act like making a phone call (some-times the hardest thing you will do that day) or writing a note. Your discernment brings you to see how you can enact your gratitude to God for the people in your life. You take responsi-bility for your part in the relationship, not trying to redeem, but only to help the other and to bring him or her closer to Christ. You may need to focus on one person: to reconcile, to praise or thank, to enjoy being with. You may need to focus on one group of people like your family or community or colleagues. You may need to focus on yourself: to accept that God is making you a unique lover, to accept others' acceptance of you as you are; or, alternatively, y6u may need to address some habit that you see aggravates others or turns them off. Or you may I27 March-~tprll 2002 Tetlow ¯ Examen need to see that you really have entered into in a new relation-ship. Or you may need to get ready for a meeting by spending precious time really preparing for it or praying that you.do well. Finally, you may need to focus on some concrete event that is coming up: an interview, a meeting, a confrontation. Or you may need to focus on some long-term development in a relarionship--unsettling conflict, growing distance, emotional-ities-- so that you can take some concrete action. In all of these focuses, you are trying to keep Jesus' own commandment, "Love one another the way I have loved you." Prayer 0 Lord, reconciler of us to ourselves, the whole world and all rime would barely hold all the acts that love demands of us. I beg you to accept the little act that for this time is what I can and would do to learn to love like you. Amen. Annunciation Holy one, favored one, the Lord is with you. Be it bright angel's word or voices in the dark or cannonball or caress, any manner of invitation is prelude to Yes Holy ones, favored ones, the Lord is with us. Eugene Cartier Review for Religious KAREN KARPER FREDETTE No Rapine in the Holocaust: Eremitical Life Today '~e what you are called to be--a passionate seeker of God through continual prayer that allows 'no rapine in the holocaust,'" declares a woman in her seventies dwelling in a rural hermitage in Massachusetts. She emphasizes the total dedication she deems necessary for her chosen vocation--that of a hermit. This apo-dictic statement is culled from 140 responses to a ques-tionnaire sent to 600 hermits and solitaries. The survey was circulated by an international newsletter for her-mits, "Raven's Bread: Food for Those in Solitude." Replies flowed in from such diverse places as New Zealand, French Canada, the Philippines, Bavaria, Ireland, Mexico, and forty of the fifty United States. This twenty-three percent response rate is con-sidered a phenomenal return on a survey and, of itself, says something significant about eremites. Interviewing a single hermit is a rare event; taking the pulse of large enough numbers to determine trends would be an impossible task if eremites themselves were the aloof, people-hating individuals portrayed in popular literature. This survey reveals, however, that Karen Karper Fredette writes from 18065 Highway 209; Hot Springs, North Carolina 28743. 129 March-April 2002 Fredette * No Rapine in the Holocaust a lifestyle seasoned by hours of solitary prayer produces human beings distinguished by hospitality of spirit and a rare compassion. The essential hiddenness of eremiticat life is achieved by blending into one's surroundings. Recent History of Eremitism Even before Vatican Council II, a movement toward solitude and eremitical living had been noted. An historical but almost forgotten intervention at the council by Bishop Remy de Roo initiated a process that resulted in a new canon (c. 603) being written into the revised'Code of Canon Law that appeared in 1983. Bishop de Roo expressed his con-viction that the renewed vitality of the eremitical calling "indicates a special influence of the Holy Spirit, who inspires initiatives beneficial to the church and the modern world." Additionally, de Roo made the prophetic point that recognition of hermits would correct the impression that the practice of poverty, chastity, and obedience is limited to those living communal religious life. The myriad forms of hermit life reported in the recent survey prove the validity of this forecast. When an ancient vocation is recovered, old modalities often prove inadequate and new styles are fashioned. But can one devise a single expression for a call that transcends definitions of religious groups and flourishes among a devout and' occa-sionally unchurched fringe of society? What demographics, if any, can be assigned to an amorphous and largely hidden sub-culture that owns no common affiliation--nor desires any? In an effort to assess the state of eremitical life in the 21st century, the recent questionnaire invited hermits to draw their own demo-graphics. The results have been illuminating and inspiring. ¯ For some of us, a hermit may be living in the next apartment or down the street. Contrary to the caricature of hermits in their far caves, only three out of 140 reporting solitaries live in the "wilderness." A large number (31 percent) dwell in rural areas, but even more (43 percent) are to be' found in urban or Review for Religious suburban settings. Eight of those responding to the survey have chosen a site in the inner city. The essential hiddenness of eremitical life is achieved by blending into one's surroundings in such a way as,~to pass unnoticed even by one's neighbors. Many hermits abhor being singled out and so avoid any identifying sign of their inner dedication to solitude. Others, however, accepting the value of witnessing to a transcendent Reality in our midst, choose a simple habit and seek a recognized status within the church. Their countercultural stance is not militant, but rather a silent encouragement to others that a dif-ferent life is possible from that preached by an all-pervasive consumer society. When and to Whom Does the Call Come? A woman living in the southeastern United States writes: "I first heard the 'call' when I was four years old. I did not know What it meant--I only knew that it shook me to my founda-tion. I married, bore two children, and became a single mother. In my studies for clinical psychology, I discovered the works of Carl Jung. My inner life began shouting for attention. I listened. I shut down my practice, moved, got the children on their feet, and became a solitary. That was twenty years ago." A woman in the Philippines says, "Friends thought I was a fool to give up a secure full-time teaching position in a univer-sity, which sadly didn't leave me space and energy to pursue contemplative living--the one thing that gave meaning to all the rest." A married hermit living in California says, "I was a Hindu monk for five years, but the community did not support my attraction to hermit life." Ninety-eight women and forty-two men responded to the Raven's Bread survey. One-third of these are in their fifties. One-fourth are in their sixties. Only six persons responding are in their thirties. Further data confirms that most received the eremitic call later in life rather than earlier. Twenty-seven percent of those responding said they entered an eremitic lifestyle in their fifties, and twenty percent in their forties. Only eighteen percent followed the call to solitude while in their twenties or thirties. Maturity and life experience are necessary before a person 131 March-April 2002 Fredette * No Rapine in the Holocaust can launch into the rigors of solitary living, though the desire may have been planted much earlier in life. This fact of mid-life transition is an echo of the ideal life-pattern espoused by many Eastern cultures. A person joins a monastery or becomes a monk, not at the beginning of life (except for a brief training period), but only after one has fulfilled family obligations and achieved a certain financial success that one then freely leaves behind. The initial results from the survey indicate that in the Western world the call to solitude replicates this wise rhythm. Good physical health and fitness are the norm among solitary dwellers. Forty-seven percent describe their health as "good," and thirty-eight percent claim "excellent" health. Mental and emotional stability radiate from the responses to the reflec-tion questions that accompanied the survey. For example, a Catholic priest in his fifties writes from an urban hermitage in California: "The grace and essence of solitary living is the abil-ity to live in and be continually conscious of the Presence of God, to become more aware of who one is, to become enlight-ened to see more and more with the vision of God, to struggle to live the compassion of God, to grow in serenity and peace-- in a word, to live the freedom of the children of God." Religious Affiliation and Status The largest number of respondents (92 of 140) are Roman Catholic, but the Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran, and Baptist churches are also represented. Among the respondents we also find persons from the Society of Friends and Orthodox churches and from various Eastern mystical traditions as well. Of the Christian denominations, Catholicism has the most hermit-friendly atmosphere, but even here eremites frequently mention lack of support and outright discouragement of their aspirations. Of the ninety-two Catholic respondents, only seventeen had been recognized as hermits under canon 603; an additional six had professed a state of consecrated virginity under canon 604. The obstacle to canonical recognition most frequently cited by respondents was the indifference of bishops. Many local ordi-naries were suspicious and expressed unwillingness to allow per-sons to pursue church-sanctioned hermit life in their dioceses. Review for Religious In the United States, only three dioceses are reported in this sur-vey to have more than one hermit living according to canon 603. A woman living in an inner-city neighborhood in England says: "The one and only meeting I had with my present bishop (a Benedictine monk) lasted only a few minutes. I had pressured him into giving me an appointment and had waited eight months to see him. I asked if he would help me become publicly pro-fessed, and he said no. That was it, a monosyllable, no expla-nation, no hesitation, no interest, no concern. I had been living as a hermit for twelve years at that time." Sheila Richardson, who is working on her master's degree in canon law at the University of St. Paul in Ottawa, inquires pointedly: "Are bishops aware of canon 605? This canon requires diocesan bishops to strive to discern new gifts of consecrated life, assist promoters of such lifestyles, and protect these new forms by appropriate statutes." Eremitical life is flourishing without much active support from the establishment. This may well be a blessing, allowing persons seeking to live as hermits or solitaries freedom to devise the form of life that best expresses their aspirations without concern about standards only a select few can meet. Exploring the various categories of individuals who choose a predominantly solitary life, we find 67 single lay persons, 24 married people, 38 members of religious congregations, and 15 ordained ministers, male and female, from six different denominations. Catholic priests who are living as hermits often exercise a limited ministry among people living nearby. They have the permission of their local ordinaries to live in retirement from most of the demands of pastoral ministry and devote the larger portion of their time to the "works" of eremitical life in solitude. Others have established a rhythm of part-time ministry with a certain number of days each week spent in solitude. Another priest is searching: "I am now at the point of decision. I am looking for a hermit-loving bishop where I might support myself by celebrating weekend Masses and confessions, perhaps in some priestless parish. Beyond that, I would be free to live in my own cabin following my own hermit schedule." Being a member of a religious community, whether active or contemplative, does not guarantee understanding of or support March-April 2002 Fredette * No Rapine in the Holocaust for an eremitic calling--something which, incidentally, may arise after a person has faithfully pursued religious life for many years. Thirty-seven of the hermits responding to the survey are still members of religious congregations. But, of the laypersons now living as hermits, sixty percent were members of a religious con-gregation at an earlier stage in their journey. Half of the former religious women claim they left their community so they could follow their attraction to solitude. Many said they were deeply grieved by this "necessity" of departure. Only two of the male religious say that their reason for severing connections with their religious order was in order to pursue solitary life. In other words, twenty-five percent of the men who left religious life did so because they were unable to live solitary life within their com-munities; fifty percent of the women left for the same reason. The most surprising category to surface from an analysis of survey responses is that of married hermit. Strictly speaking, this is a contradiction in terms and one that is hard to justify. But, for those who so identify themselves, the vocation is real and valid. Of the twenty-three respondents who are married, not all claimed to be hermits, but more than half did so. In an effort to understand this phenomenon, the following question was posed: "If you are married and are attracted to solitude, how do you work this out with your spouse?" In reply a woman in Arizona said: "The working out of mar-riage and solitude contains., every contradiction that one can experience in making oneself vulnerable in love to God and the unfolding of God's call in another. Two people can be authen-tically called to solitude and to solitude with each other, but the expressions of it can be so very different. The sharing of phys'ical space has been of great pragmatic concern for us recently--how to arrange our home so it can facilitate simplic-ity of life, prayer, and solitude." A man in Connecticut said: "I decided to separate my own liturgy commitments from my marriage by rising each morning at three for my prayer schedule. Also, I go to bed a little before my spouse to be alone once more in prayer." A woman married to a permanent deacon said: "He shares my attraction to silence and solitude although his ministry is pastoral and mine is mainly prayer. Our small country parish requires very little contact with the people for me. I work qui- Review for Relig4ous etly and prayerfully in the background while he ministers to the people. Everyone seems to understand and accept this arrangement." A woman frankly confesses: "It [attraction to solitude] cre-ated great problems. The marriage ended because we could not work it out. We remained friends." Daily Lifestyles, Daily Problems One hundred and one of the 140 respondents to the sur-vey describe themselves as living alone with significant periods of solitude and prayer. Forty-four of these have a written sched-ule incorporating prayer, work, reading, and relaxation. Eighty-seven of the 140 respondents live an informal mix of these elements. Some of these noted that they had begun with a written schedule that gradually became a more flexible routine. Seventy-eight of the 140 re-spondents pray with others one or more times a week. The most frequent prayer-form cited was meditation. Almost ninety percent find daily periods of meditative prayer a necessity. Nearly as many include Eucharistic Liturgy as part of their daily or weekly prayer routine. Most respondents find special periods of retreat important. Almost half arrange for an "annual r~treat; some manage monthly or even weekly periods of retreat. Penitential practices preferred are fasting and vigils. Almsgiving is important, with forty-three percent giving either in cash or in kind. Thirty-six eremites have made public profession of the evan-gelical counsels. Thirty-eight have committed themselves pri-vately, their vows or promises witnessed by a church-related person. Almost all respondents (103) value spiritual direction, though many said that finding a spiritual guide has been diffi-cult. Forty-seven hermits function as spiritual guides for others. One hundred and one of the 140 respondents to the survey describe themselves as living alone with significant periods of solitude and prayer. 135 March-April 2002 Fredette ¯ No Rapine in the Holocaust The survey listed six areas that could prove problematic for eremites: housing, income, spiritual guidance, relationships with church representatives, physical health, and personal fears and insecurities. The most frequently cited problem is difficulties with church representatives; the next, finding adequate spiri-tual guidance. The expected difficulties of locating a suitable site and generating enough income had proved less trouble-some. In this third millennium of Christianity, eremitical life is experiencing a fresh flowering, with new blooms appearing on the ancient vine. Butthe essence remains the same: "For me, the grace of solitary living is Emptiness," a married hermit member of an oblate Benedictine community states categorically. "No rapine in the holocaust" continues to be the stark demand of solitary life. Lake's Edge At night I hear the motion of the lake. It sighs to its own heart. Foam frosts the weight of wetness flung toward the house where my light burns. I am waiting for the wind to bring the message that I long for, the meaning of breath and motion, and who it is that sends waves pulsing toward this empty shore. Kate Martin OSC Review for Religious JAMES J. MAGEE Metaphysical Self in Other Mystical Traditions Ion an article in this journal (1994), I examined the devel-pment of metaphysical self in the writings of eight Christian mystics, concluding with Thomas Merton's definition (1966, p. 180) referring to "the depths of people's hearts where neither sin nor desire nor self-knowledge can reach, the core of their reality, the person that each one is in God's eyes." In short, metaphysical self is the term for one's self residing in God and God residing in it. Respondents to the article took the occa- ¯ sion to point out that metaphysical se/fappears also in the writ-ings of mystics from other religious traditions and recommended that I enlarge the presentation by incorporating some of them. Since these correspondents were women religious more famil-iar than I with these various mystical traditions, I asked them to participate in a monthly online chat room to examine meta-physical self as it appears in Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, and Muslim (Sufi) mysticism. Our group of nine has met for the past five years, and this article presents some of the riches these mystical traditions brought to our understanding of meta-physical self. Each month we decided upon two primary sources we would examine in common, one Christian and one from another James J. Magee has written nine articles for our journal, the last in 1994. He is professor of counseling and gerontology at College of New Rochelle; New Rochelle, New York 10805. March-April 2002 tradition. In addition, each of us read the historical and con-textuai introductions preceding the texts or a monograph explaining their specific themes and imagery. At the conclusion of this article is a bibliography of the sources that we found particularly fruitful. Each tradition has its own style, some directly didactic and others more metaphorical. Each elabo-rates upon metaphysical self with novel, arresting paradoxes and engaging imagery that invigorated our familiarity with our own Christian mystics. Each, too, emphasizes the following components of metfiphysical self: the relational, nondualistic rootedness of self in God; transcendent individuality; engaged detachment as an expression of metaphysical self. Throughout this endeavor we dealt with paradoxes and found the most exhil-arating paradox in the power of other traditions to confirm our Christocentric perspective. Residing in God's Unconditional Acceptance This brief sampling of Christian mystics illustrates the con-tinuing emphasis they placed on the-self-residing-in-God: From Meister Eckhart: The soul is so completely one with God that the one cannot be understood without the other. One can think heat easily enough without fire and the shining with-out the sun, but God cannot be understood without the soul nor the soul without God, so utterly are they one. (p. 309) It is God's pleasure and rapture to discover iden-tity, because he can always put his whole nature into it--for he is this identity itself. (p. 167) From Julian of Norwich: Our soul sits in God in true rest, and our soul stands in God in sure strength, and our soul is naturally rooted in God in endless love. (p. 188) Between God and our soul there is neither wrath nor forgiveness. For our soul is so wholly united to God that nothing can interpose . Though we find in ourselves anger, contention, and strife, still we are all mercifully enclosed in God's mildness and meekness. (p. 189) Review for Religious From Catherine of Genoa: My being is God;. my me is God. (W'ilber, p. 72) From Thomas Merton: We know God insofar as we become aware of ourselves as known through and through by him. We "possess" him in proportion as we realize ourselves to be pos-sessed by him in the utmost depths of our being . Our knowledge of God is paradoxically a knowledge not of him as the object of our scrutiny, but of our-selves as utterly dependent on his saving and merciful knowledge of us. (1969, pp. 103-104) Note how this same emphasis appears in the following excerpts from Jewish and Muslim mystics: From the Maggid of Mezhirech: Man's essence is only the soul that is within him, which is a portion of God above. Thus, there is nothing in the entire world except the Holy One. (Uffenheimer) From the Kabbalah: There is nothing that is not pervaded by the power of divinity. God is everything that exists, though every-thing that exists is not God .Nothing is devoid of its divinity. (Matt, 1995) From Rumi: Remember God so much that you are forg9tten, until you are lost in the Call, without distinction of caller and called. (Breton and Largent, p. 23). You are my face. No wonder I can't see you. (Breton and Largent, p. 168) From 'Abd Allah Ansari (Kwaja 'Abdullah Ansari): One went to the door of the Beloved and knocked. A voice asked, "Who is there?" He answered, "It is I." The voice said, "There is no room for Me and Thee." The door was shut. Mter a year of sOlitude and depri-vation, he returned and knocked. A voice from within asked, "Who is there?" The man said, "It is Thee." The door was opened for him. (p. 94) O God, I possess that mirror in which you are reflected. Rather, I am that mirror. You are not sepa-rate from me. (p. 196) From Fakhruddin 'Iraqi: 139 MarchoApril 2002 The EternalOcean spews forth new waves. "Waves" we call them, but there is only. the Sea. (p. 77) From Ibn Al'Arabi: As in the case of a mirror and the beholder, he sees the form in it, but does not see the mirror itself. In your seeing your true self, He is your mirror and you are His mirror in which He sees nothing other than Himself. (p. 65) Through the intimate imagery and ecstatic directness that pervade these writings, the mystics of three monotheistic traditions seem to strain the point that, while human beings par-ticipate in the divine nature, they never become the essence of God. Their mystical reach, on the other hand, does touch upon that mystery which "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the human heart conceived, what God has prepared for those who love Him" (1 Co 2:9). The mystics intuit that persons are not dualistically separated from God, but "closely united with God in a love that is always moving toward oneness" (Johnston, p. 124). Transcending Individuality The Christian Scriptures address a second characteristic, the quality of relationships that proceed from metaphysical self. This characteristic also reappears in the mystical literature of other traditions, and our group members were able to find these paraphrases about metaphysical self-transcending indi-viduality: "Love is not self-seeking; it is not prone to anger; neither does it brood over injuries" (1 Co 13:5) becomes, in Rumi, the Sufi mystic, "Love has no calculating in itT' (Breton and Largent, p. 9) "Thanks be to God, who unfailingly leads us on in Christ's triumphal train, and employs us to diffuse the fragrance of his knowledge everywhere" (2 Co 2:14) occurs in Rtimi as "Vv~hether they know You or not, all creatures bend but toward You. M1 love for some-one else is but a whiff of Your perfume." (Breton and Largent, p. 141) "For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink" (Mt 25, 35) appears; Review for Religious in the Bhagavad Gita, as "Any offering--a leaf, a flower, or a fruit, a cup of water--I will accept it if given with a loving heart." (Mitchell, 2000, p. 118) "Let us profess the truth in love" (Eph 4:15) is, in the Bhagavad Gita, "Speak the truth with kindness, honesty that causes no pain." (Mitchell, 2000, p. 178) These mystical sources echo the scriptural message that in human beings metaphysical self is inherently relational. Each of us is a seat of consciousness and an experiencing agent with-out being independent of others. Aitken and Steindl-Rast go so far as to say: "Underlying 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' has to be the experience that the other is no other than myself" (p. 113). Engaged Detachment During our years of meetings, members recognized a third characteristic, engaged detachment, as the way metaphysical self conducts itself in the world. This oxymoron refers to the readiness to invest ourselves in causes, tasks, and relationships while remaining ready to foi'go achieving our goals. It focuses upon process, both the deservingness of the activity at hand and the affirmation that we shall die unfinished, our potential only partly realized, and that completion is ultimately God's work and not our own. The different traditions of mystical writings repeatedly express this theme: From Julian of Norwich: God does not want his servants to despair because they fall often and grievously; for our falling does not hin-der him in loving us. (p. 188) From Paul Tillich: You are accepted, accepted by that which is greater than you . Do not seek for anything; do not intend anything. (Church, p. 180) From Anthony de Mello: There is no clinging to a classical symphony and no hastening it. One does not wait till the end to enjoy . it, but takes in every note, every chord as it comes and lets it go to welcome the next uninterrupted flow. Any attempt to stop the performance, any "attachment" to 14! March-April 2002 Nlagee ¯ Metaphysical Self a single note, will ruin the symphony. (p. 164) From the Tao Te Ching: A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent upon arriving. (Mitchell, 1988, p. 27) The Tao gives birth to all beings, creating without possessing, acting without expecting, guiding without interfering. (Welch, p. 41) From the Bhagavad Gita: With no desire for success, no anxiety about failure, indifferent to results, surrendering all thoughts of out-come, unperturbed, he does nothing at all, even when fully engaged in actions. There is nothing that he expects. (Mitchell, 2000, p. 75) From Fakhruddin 'Iraqi: Give up desire. Think that whatever you get is what you want, and in this acceptance find ease and joy. Renounce desire a hundred times. (p. 114) Engaged detachment, like the other characteristics of meta-physical self, is paradoxical. It invites a response of passive atten-tiveness wisely expressed in this admonition from the poet Rainer Maria Rilke: Be patient toward all that is unresolved in your heart. . Try to love the contradictions themselves. Do not now seek resolutions, which cannot be given because you would not be able to live them, and the point is to live everything. Live the contradictions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the resolutions. (p. 97) Imagery, Paradox, Complementarity, Love The imagery, metaphors, and paradoxes which other mys-tical traditions use to illuminate the nature of mystical se/famplify and complement the attention Christian mystics center upon on this theme. The artfulness of these other sources can help sustain us both in the apophatic ~loud through which Christian mystics typically view mystical self and in the relaxed tena-ciousness of our commitment to love others as ourselves. Review for Religious References 'Abd Allah Ansari, 1978. Intimate conversations. New York: Paulist Press. Aitken, R., and D. Steindl-Rast. 1996. The ground we share. Boston: Shambala. Breton, D., and C. Largent. 1998. Love, soul, and freedom: Dancing with Rumi on the mystical path. Center City, Minn.: Hazelden. Church, E 1987. The essential Tillich. New York: Macmillan. de Mello, A. 1992. One minute nonsense. Chicago: Loyola University Press. Fakhruddin 'Iraqi. 1982. Divine flashes. New York: Paulist Press. Ibn Al'Arabi. 1980. The bezels of wisdom. New York: Paulist Press. Johnston, W. 2000. "Arise, my love . . .": Mysticism for a new era. Maryknoll, N.Y.: Orbis Books. Julian of Norwich. 1978. Showings. New York: Paulist Press. Magee, J. 1994. "Shame, mystical writers, and a spirituality of self." Review for Religious 53, no. 5 (September-October): 746-752. Matt, D. 1995. The essential Kabbalah. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, p. 25. Meister Eckhart. 1986. Meister Eckhart: Teacher and preacher, ed. B. McGinn. New York: Paulist Press. Merton, T. 1966. Conjectures of a guilty bystander. New York: Doubleday. Merton, T. 1969. Contemplative prayer. New York: Herder and Herder. Mitchell, S. 1988. Tao te ching. New York: Harper and Row. Mitchell, S. 2000. Bhagavadgita. New York: Harmony Books. Rilke, R. 1978. When silence reigns: Selected prose. New York: New Directions. Uffenheimer, R. 1993. Hasidism as mysticism. Princeton: Princeton University Press, p. 74. Welch, H. 1966. Taoism: The parting of the way. Boston: Beacon. Wilber, K. 1983. Up from Eden. Boulder, Colo.: Shambala. Bibliography of Easily Accessible Sources Sources in Christian mysticism appear in the series Classics of Western Spirituality (Paulist Press). Sources for Buddhist and Taoist mysticism Da Liu. 1986. Tai chi ch'uan and meditation. New York: Schocken Books. Deng Ming-Dao. 1990. Scholar warrior: An introduction to the tao in everyday life. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco. 143 March-April 2002 Magee ¯ Metaphysical Self Kohn, L. 1993. The taoist experience: An anthology. Albany: State University of New York Press. Merton, T. 1968. Zen and the birds of appetite. New York: New Directions. Mitchell, S. 1988. Tao te ching. New York: Harper and Row. Reps, P. 1957. Zen flesh, Zen bones: A collection of Zen and pre-Zen writ-ings. Rutland, Vermont: C.E. Turtle. Thich Nhat Hanh. 1987. The miracle of mindfulness: A manual on med-itation. Boston: Beacon. Watson, B. 1968. The complete works of Chuang Tzu. New York: Columbia University Press. Wei, H. 1987. The authentic I Ching. North Hollywood, Calif.: Newcastle. Sources for Hindu mysticism Dehejia, V. 1994. The legend of Rama: Artistic visions. Bombay: Marg Publications. Heehs, P. 1998. The essential writings of Sri Aurobindo. New York: Oxford University Press. Jack, H. 1989. The Gandhi Reader. New York: Grove Press. Krishnamurti, J. 1994. On conflict. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco. Mitchell, S. 2000. Bhagavadgita. New York. Harmony Books. Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre. 1972. Women saints of East and West. London: Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre. Shukla, S. 1999. The Upanishads. Fremont, Calif.: Asian Humanities Press. Sivaraman, K. 1989. Hindu spirituality. New York: Crossroad. Vetter, H. 1997. The heart of God: Prayers of Rabindranath Tagore. Boston: C.E. Tuttle. Sources for Islamic mysticism 'Abd Allah Ansari. 1978. Intimate conversations. New York: Paulist Press. Breton, D., and C. Largent, C. 1998. Love, soul, and freedom: Dancing with Rumi on the mystic path. Center City, Minn.: Hazelden. Chittick, W.C. 1983. The Sufi path of love: The spiritual teachings of Rumi. Albany: State University of New York Press. Ernst, C. 1984. Words of ecstasy in Sufism. Albany: State University of New York Press. Fakhruddin 'Iraqi. 1982. Divine flashes. New York: Paulist Press. Ibn Al'Arabi. 1980. The bezels of wisdom. New York: Paulist Press. Review for Religious Ibn A1-Sabbagh. 1996. Mystical teachings of Al-Shadhili. Chicago: Kazi Publications. Ibn 'Ata' Illah. 1978, The book of wisdom. New York: Paulist Press. Massignon, L. 1982. The passion of A1-Hallaj, mystic and martyr of Islam. Princeton: Princeton University Press. Schimmel, A. 1987. As through a veik Mystical poetry in Islam. New York: Columbia University Press. Sharafuddin Maneni. 1980. The hundred letters. New York: Paulist Press. Sources for Jewish mysticism Ben Joseph, A. 1987. Book of formation (Sepheryetzirah). San Francisco: Holmes. Ben Zion, R. 1984. Anthology of Jewish mysticism. Brooklyn, N.Y.: Judaica Press. Cohn-Sherbok, D. 1995. Jewish mysticism: An anthology. Rockport, Mass.: Oneworld. Jacobs, L. 1997. Schocken book of Jewish mystical testimonies. New York: Schocken Books. Kamenetz, R. 1998. Stalking Elijah: Adventures with today's Jewish mys-tical masters. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco. Kook, A. 1978. The lights of penitence, New York: Paulist Press. Matt, D. 1983. Zohar: The book of enlightenment. New York: Paulist Press. Matt, D. 1995. The essential Kabbalah: The heart of Jewish mysticism. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco. Nahman of Bratslav. 1980. The tales. New York: Paulist Press. Scholem, G. 1995. Major trends in Jewish mysticism. New York: Schocken Books. NEW ON OUR WEBSITE Searchable indexes of Review for Religious articles from January 1970 to the current issue Abstracts of the lead articles of the January 1997 isshe to the current issue and summaries of the others Complete text of A Spirituality for Contemporary Life: The Jesuit Heritage Today edited by David Fleming SJ and containing articles by J.J. Mueller SJ, Walter Burghardt SJ, David Fleming SJ, Monika K. Hellwig, Jon Sobrino SJ, Elizabeth Johnson csJ, and John W. Padberg SJ www.reviewforreligious.org -4 45 larch-, Jpril 2002 GERALDINE M. WODARCZYK Aging: Spiritually Present to the Burning Bush growing older For months now I have written multiple reflections on aging. They are connected with a book by Jane Marie Thibault2 She says that in later life people are invited to contemplation and that there should be contem-plative communities for the elderly. My congregation is 127 year old, and I have lived among aging and prayerful sisters for decades. I sought to formulate a theology of aging based on the spirituality of our foundress, Frances Siedliska. But, in spite of a wealth of material, no formulation presented itself. And so, with encouragement from Sister Judith Nero OSB, my local mentor for the gerontological program, I decided on a different focus, simply writing about my ministry experiences at Holy Family Manor. What are those experiences, and what are they calling me to in my own life? Perhaps, like Moses, I have discovered a "burning bush" and here, on holy ground, I learn of God. Geraldine M, Wodarczyk CSFN wrote this paper originally in a gerontological pastoral care program at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. Her address is Sisters of the Holy Family of Nazareth; 285 Bellevue Road; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15229. Review for Religious Years ago Sister Mary Paul Krasowski gave me a copy of a poem by an unknown author: The Moses in my heart trembles not quite willing to accept the prophet hidden in my being wondering how much it will cost to allow the prophet to emerge. O child of unnecessary shoes cast them off and stand in readiness on this awfully holy ground! For the Egypt in people's hearts demands that you see the burning bushes all around you aflame and burning wildly calling you forth away from the comfort of well-protected feet. The ground you stand on is holy! Take off your shoes believe in your Moses and go. Sister Mary Paul gave.me a copy a second time, when I was the superior at the Manor, my "holy ground" for the past six years. I realized that during this time I had been called to accept the prophet in me, and in others, as we search for God in our every-day realities. I have seen the Egypt in the hearts of sisters and heard their cry for freedom sung in many ways. Within the evening solitude that these days provided me, I discovered the Egypt within my own heart and heard a call to let go of false securities of my own and to find new freedoms within me. I have been present to "burning bushes" of experience with seasoned older sisters. In ways I never expected, God touched my life and called me from the comfort zone where I was six years before. 147 March-April 2002 Wodarczyk ¯ Aging With Fear and Trepidation In 1990, when first asked to consider being superior of the Manor, I flatly refused. I was already superior of a small convent of four sisters. I was engaged in full-time ministry as the province councilor for formation, and together with my brother, who was just beginning a family in Wisconsin, I was sharing long-distance care of our widowed father in Erie, Pennsylvania, who was steadily moving to a new stage of frailty in his life. These were the reasons I gave my provincial, but another rea-son was that I had never been present at anyone's death. Terrified, I could not imagine living where I would need to be present to sisters as they died. Time passed. In 1993 our father's condition became worse. When notified, I knew the seriousness of Dad's condition, but did not realize that, with the physician, my brother and I would be making decisions that Dad was not able to make about his failing life. As Divine Providence would have it, I was in Erie when decisions about the breathing and cardiac machines needed to be made, and I was present during Dad's last hours and death. I learned that a broken heart is a real experience. I was changed, and so in 1994, when a new provincial asked me about being superior of Holy Family Manor, I said I would be willing. The provincial was taking seriously the choice of the superior. First, after asking the sisters living in the Manor for suggestions and reviewing the list, she and her council had three sisters come to a mandatory day of reflection in a small cottage on our motherhouse grounds. Our retirement home had sixty-nine beds and sixty-six sisters at various stages of aging. The retreat director, Sister Ann Winschel CDP, invited us to consider our gifts and what might be our stumbling blocks in accepting the ministry. I went to my room in the cottage and prayed with open hands, letting God put there what I needed and giving God the freedom to take away any drawbacks to my willingness to accept this ministry. For most people, praying with open hands is a simple gesture, but for me--with hands affected by rheumatoid arthritis--the gesture spoke of my own human brokenness. Could God really want me, already a broken vessel, to shep-herd these senior religious in their last days? At the end of the retreat, after sharing our personal reflec- tions, we were asked to express our final decision in a letter to the provincial. I wrote of openness to the ministry, my aware-ness of my gifts in working with the elderly, and my recognition that I could use them only in the context of my own brokenness. I qualified my openness by saying that, if I had an incapacitating flare-up of the arthritis, I would take it as an indication that this service was not appropriate for me. Three months later my provincial telephoned me, saying that the council had unani-mously chosen me the next Manor superior. She wanted me to take some preparation time with the current superior, attend the upcoming American Society of Aging conference, and offi-cially begin on the first of May. On Sunday, 30 April 1995, in the early afternoon, I arrived at the Manor. I was scheduled to be in the chapel for a wel-coming prayer and commitment service at four o'clock. The previous superior had already left. Three sisters were waiting for me at the door, welcoming me with one breath and asking with another, "You will take us to the festival at Mr.Assisi, won't you?" Barely gathering my belongings from the auto-mobile and putting them in my room, I welcomed the excur-sion (a five-minute trip) to the Franciscan sisters' festival. Though a busy place, it was a respite where I could amble with-out any focus on the fears and anticipation that were part of me at this transition moment. We returned home and soon four o'clock came. In the presence of the retired sisters, the provincial asked me several questions: Will you accept this responsibility [to be local leader] which the sisters have confided in you? Do you promise to serve the sisters in kindness, compassion, and charity, in the spirit of our blessed foundress, Frances Siedliska? Will you strive to be faithful to the Covenant of Love [our constitutions] and the directives of your general and provincial superiors? Responding affirmatively, I was given a bouquet of roses by the provincial and was told: "Your ministry as servant leader will be a mixed blessing. Both joy and sorrow, possibility and I could not imagine living where I would need to be present to sisters as they died. !49 ~¥larch-April 2002 Wodarczyk ¯ Aging impossibility, success and failure will accompany you. These roses, themselves offering both beauty and pain, are given to you with our gratitude for accepting this mission." After the sisters voiced their support, I recited the following: As I approach this ministry of servant leadership, I pray: Hollow out in me, O God, a space in which I will find myself, find peace and a whole heart, a for-giving spirit and holiness, springs of laughter, and the will to reach boldly for abundant life for myself, this local community, and the whole human family. Grant me your peace, instill in me such awe of you as will make me wise, and such quiet courage as will enable me to make hope visible, forgiving delight-ful, loving contagious, faith liberating, and peace-mak-ing joyful. Shape my weakness into compassion and help me to make myself open and present to my sisters, to oth-ers, and to your kingdom. Amen.2 And so I began my sojourn as the convent superior of our retire-ment community. Except for my Franciscan festival invitation, my first encounter with one of the sisters came that evening, when Sister Maura3 told me, "On behalf of the entire community here at Holy Family Manor, .I want to tell you it is too cold in this build-ing." "Temperatures!" I thought; "after that profoundly religious service, I am supposed to adjust thermostats!" And so it was-- God was inviting me to listen to the concerns of everyday life, the little things that are so important in these sisters' lives. The Power of the Word The next morning I had an announcement to make in the first-floor dining room, where forty sisters sat. Besides some trembling, my voice did not carry well, especially for the good number with impaired hearing. Finally I got the message across. Shortly thereafter, a sister from the second-floor dining area came complaining that I did not give the sisters there any message. What was I to do? The next day I typed out some items of common interest and posted them in the elevator, Review for Religious thereby causing traffic jams. Sisters would ride up and down until they finished reading the note. I realized that we needed copies of the newsletter posted in various places, including the elevator. This simple arrangement, providing this large num-ber of sisters direction for the coming day, also informed them about what was happening in our home. Was this communication episode a "burning bush" in which I found God? At least I learned how impoytant the communi-cated word is to people, and that it could promote love and caring in this household. It calmed the fears of the sisters who wondered about who was in the house: other sisters, guests, contractors, maintenance work-ers. The daily newsletter included a prayer request list and kept the sisters informed about the health progress of the sisters in the hos-pital. The newsletter invited the sisters to share a joke as well as to request prayer for themselves I learned how important the communicated word is to people, and that it could promote love and caring. or others. It became their newsletter. It provided a source of unity and dismantled some rumors that institutions readily give rise to. It hung for twenty-four hours at eight places in the building. Each of us had plenty of time to return to it to get the news of the day. There is a power in the written word. It is a way love can be communicated. Isn't the Word the way God communicates the greatness of Divine Love? And did the Word not become incarnate in the most simple and humble way? Perhaps in some small way the newsletter really was a "burning bush." The Joy of the Resurrection After living a short while in the Manor, I noticed a heavi-ness- sadness in the sisters' demeanor, depressive postures; even the daily Masses were in remembrance of the deceased. Although all the bedrooms are quite alike, some were considered "dying rooms," and sisters shuddered at the thought of being placed there. March-April 2002 V~odarczyk * Aging When I arrived at the Manor in the midst of spring, I was still flesh with the message of the Easter season's life-giving liturgical readings. One reading kept coming back to me, the one about the women returning to the tomb who were asked, "Why do 3iou search for the Living One among the dead?" (Lk 24:5). One day these words, stirring in my h.eart, became reversed. I heard, "Why do you search for the dead among the living?" Something changed within me, and I realized how alive, even with some physical limitations, these sisters were. I knew that I needed to foster that life of theirs. I knew that I should help them help each other to build a happy life within this retirement community. By Pentecost I looked for the evi-dence of the Spirit as we tried new things and reviewed old practices. What brought the gifts of "love, joy, peace, patient endurance, kindness, generosity, faith, mildness" (Ga 5:22-23) that Paul spoke about? The things that brought such results to the majority of the community would be fostering and increas-ing in the sisters the new life of Easter. How else does God speak to us and affirm our actions except by the gifts of the Holy Spirit? In late May 91-year-old Sister Ellen was rushed to the hos-. pital in excruciating abdominal pain. "A perforated bowel," the doctor told me and asked, "What do you want me to do? I don't think that Sister could survive the surgery." Asking Sister, who was fully conscious, was to me the obvious thing to do. The doctor explained the options: surgery or palliative care. Sister Ellen looked at me with the most trusting eyes. "You are my superior," she said. "Whatever you decide will be God's will for me." I could not believe my ears, nor was I prepared for this responsibility she placed on me. She remained adamant. "I trust that your decision is God's will for me." I had not been reared in religious life with that degree of surrender put into a supe-rior's hands. Mine was a formation toward dialogue, toward coming to a mutual decision. She, however, simply continued to insist. From her primary-care physician, I learned that Sister Ellen had specifically said a few weeks earlier that she never wanted another surgery. When I managed to contact our provin-cial superior, who was traveling in Europe, she concurred with the decision for palliative care. Review for Religious I remain humbled by the trust Sister Ellen placed in me. I learned that being an instrument of God in these sisters' lives is something very serious indeed. I learned of my own need for prayer and intimacy with a God who, though transcendent, is immanently present to us and our decisions. Second Floor: 0 God, Are You There? A visitor to our Manor told me happily that her little boy would be three years old in a couple of weeks. On hearing that, he began to cry, "I don't want to be three, Mommy." Holding her tearful child, she said to me: "When he turns three he has to go to the next room in the day care. He doesn't want to take that step." It can be like that with the elderly, too. In conversations with oth-ers who deal with the elderly, I have found that there is always some place where res-idents do not want to go. It may be called the A wing or Mary's Corridor or something sim-ilar. In our convent it is simply called "the second floor." It is where those needing the most care live. Agreeing to live on the second floor is, for some of us, accepting death--even though, in reality, it may be years away. When I came to the Manor, the frailest sisters on the sec-ond floor would sit or recline in geri-chairs in a semicircle in what was called the solarium. These sisters were clean and well kept, but some would randomly yell out a prayer, a request, a humorous remark, or something incoherent. When people passed by Sister Lynnette--her parochial school teaching over and end-stage Alzheimer's drawing near--she would insist, "Line up for the fire drill, without talking!" If you did not do so, your misbehavior called for discipline. Although humorous, these moments were also sad, for Sister Lynnette had been such an excellent teacher. Many sisters shied away from the second floor, and espe-cially the solarium, where these frail sisters spent long days, I have found that there is always some place where residents do not want to go. March-April 2002 Wodarczyk ¯ Agigg still as icons. This comparison struck me as I read some words of Henri Nouwen: Icons are not easy to "see." They do not immediately speak [appeal] to our senses . They do not reveal themselves to us at first sight. It is only gradually, after a patient, prayerful presence, that they start speaking to us. And, as they speak, they speak more to our inner than to our outer sense. They speak to the heart that searches for God.4 The frailest sisters on the second floor "do not reveal them-selves," or the Holy, immediately. It is only after I become prayerfully present to them that their presence, in their dimin-ished physical or mental condition, speaks to my heart. They tell me about life's brevity, about our dependence on God, and show that we are only pilgrims here. One day I took a visiting priest acquaintance to see our treasured sisters on the second floor. He began preaching to them about their duty to contemplate. With blank faces they just looked at him. A confused embarrassment seized him, and he became speechless. There was nothing more to say. Later I wondered if these sisters are in the contemplative state of being in God's wordless embrace. One cannot know such secrets. These sisters, and we ourselves, spend lives desiring such close-ness. But, because they and we have also spent years seeking responsible and prudent control of our lives, such vulnerability, such complete dependence on God and on others, is likely to be fraught with fear as well. On a recent visit to Pittsburgh, Trappist monk Thomas Keating, founder of Contemplative Outreach, spoke to an ecu-menical group gathered at another Franciscan motherhouse. He spoke of the prayerful consent that is part of Centering Prayer, for fostering contemplative experience. He spoke of the call to follow Christ and to let go of possessions--not external possessions so much as interior ones, the baggage of attitudes that we carry with us (in his phrase, the false self). At one point he looked up at the' choir loft, where the frailest of the com-munity's sisters were. He spoke directly to them, taking note of their willing acceptance of their present frailty, their loss of health, their losses of young self-reliance and of status in the community. He saw their disabilities as precious gifts from God, Review for Religious things to be grateful for. His words reminded me of my own sisters on the second floor. But to accept diminishment with gratitude is not easy. Solidarity with Suffering A few footsteps away from my office, my belief in the cru-cified and resurrected Christ was tested. Suffering is a mystery. We do not want to see others suffer, nor do we want suffering in our own lives. When faced with the suffering of people we love, what is our response? Henri Nouwen says: A friend who was very ill had a great devotion to Mary, the mother of Jesus, and derided to make a pilgrimage to Lourdes to ask for healing. When she left, I was afraid that she would be disillusioned if no miracle happened. But on her return she said, "Never did I see so many sick people. When I came face-to-face with that human suffering, I no longer wanted a miracle. I no longer wanted to be the exception. I experienced a deep desire to be one of them, to belong to these wounded people. Instead of praying for a cure, I prayed that I would have the grace to bear my illness in solidarity with them. And I trust that the mother of Jesus will bring my prayer to her Son."s As for myself, I have never come to the point of wanting "to be one of them." I desire to be well. But so did this dear woman on her way to Lourdes for healing. Is true healing the ability to love so deeply that we long to share others' intense pain and sorrow? That is what Jesus did. When we are young, we find many ways to escape that question and that reality. As we age and see diminishment in ourselves, our families, and our friends, the question returns. That call to solidarity in suffering is a difficult call to hear, especially when the time actually comes for us to visit--or move to--the "second floor." Sacrament of the Present Moment - Even in Dementia "Where am I going?" she asks, her body slumped. The eyes, once sparkling with joie de vivre, now are dim, like smoldering wicks. "I can understand," she says, "why, without faith, one155 March-April 2002 Wodarczyk ¯ Aging could commit suicide. Not that I want to," she says, "but I understand. I know why others would do this." Coming out of my own uncomfortable search for something to say, I ask, "Do you have faith? . Why, yes, I do." But soon she is asking, "What should I do? What is happening to me?" These words rose in her during the initial stages of Alzheimer's. It is easy to agree with the maxim that "a mind is a terrible thing to waste." In a group where many have been educators, the relentless decline of mental acumen is truly frightening. In this place, you can imagine the ardor one brings to reading the "Nuns' Study" !6 In the light (or darkness) of this feared disease, a faith per-spective does not come easy, even in a congregation whose motto is "Thy will be done." I needed to be reverently present to any-one who was concerned about Alzheimer's, just as I did to those showing symptoms of it. I needed to be cautious about explain-ing away dementia-with pious sayings or even a quick quota-tion from Scripture. For many months Sister Mary would stalk me, particularly at sundown. Even when I did not initially see her, I could sense her presence and her foreboding look. I had learned earlier that I should keep touch with my own inner experience when relat-ing to others. With Mary, the more I avoided her physically and psychologically, the more she pursued and pressured me. Her cognitive impairment was becoming worse. I would think, "Oh, here she is, pestering me again!" or "She's got dementia. She doesn't know what she's talking about." One time she was particularly adamant: "How awful to be on the second floo!! How cruel you were to put me there!" And on and on, in a sort of frenzy. I wondered, "What ever happened to that loving and supportive friend I had for so many years?" I thought of relat-ing to her as a simple matter of"how to handle a difficult situ-ation." I thought of Christ being in her, but was far from experiencing it. Worn down by her raving, I was wondering if she had received her medication. I called the nurse to ask. Sister Mary heard me and said, "You think medication is going to take care of this? You are not around and you think medicine is going to cure this? That's not the way! That's not the way!" My "quick and appropriate solution"--so that I could be about more Review for Religious "important" things--stirred up more mistrust in Sister and greater frustration in me. Then my faith invited me to adopt a new perspective. I paused, put aside other matters, sat face-to-face with her, and listened. Soon both of us were at peace. After a while she returned to her room for the evening. This scenario occurred more than once. Afterwards, pondering the healing that took place when I was more present to her, I realized that there is a sacramentality in such moments. Jean-Pierre de Caussade says: There is never a moment when God does not come forward in the guise of some suffering or some duty, and all that takes place within us, around us, and through us both includes and hides his activity. Yet, because it is invisible, we are taken by surprise and do not recognize his operation until it has passed by us. If we could lift the veil and if we watched with vigilant attention, God would endlessly reveal himself to us, and we should see and rejoice in his active presence in all that befalls us. At every event we should exclaim: "It is the Lord!''7 Can I be alert to this potential revelation of God the next time I am stalked by one of my own sisters? When people complain to me about the odd behavior or mental confusion of a dear friend of theirs, can I help them see Christ's presence in the situation? How do I do that? Caussade reminds us of the power of faith: It is faith which interprets God for us. Without its light we should not even know that God is speaking, but would hear only the confused, meaningless bab-ble of creatures. As Moses saw the flame of fire in the bush and heard the voice of God coming from it, so faith will enable us to understand his hidden signs, so that amidst all the apparent clutter and disorder we shall see all the loveliness and perfection of divine wisdom.8 Seeking Life's Deeper Meaning A few years ago Sister Mary Stella came to my office quite excited about the prospect of winning a car or money for the 157 Vlarch-April 2002 Wodarczyk ¯ Aging community. A piece of mail had informed her that she had been "selected to win." I tried to explain to her about the money-maEing ploy of these contests. She insisted: "Fill it out for me. I can't see!" Hoping that somewhere in this experience there would be a teachable moment, I filled out the form and mailed it. A few weeks later she received a "free" watch. "See," she told me, "I am already winning! I will really help the congre-gation when the check arrives." Not long after the watch came, Sister was billed $75 for a magazine subscription. She called me to her room. Obviously upset, she said she did not have the money for this subscription and believed that, if she canceled it, she would be responsible for the salesperson's losing her job. "I should have listened to you," she lamented. My teachable moment had arrived! Though I was angry about companies that exploit senior citizens, I gently explained to her that this is an advertising gimmick, that all she needed to do was write "cancel" on the bill and mail it back; the matter would be over. She listened. I left the room thinking all was well. But within a few days Sister stopped eating. She did not come to morning Mass. She stayed in her room, depressed and despondent. Noticing this, I spent some extended time with her, but she was silent. She wanted to see a priest. I called the Franciscan priest who often served us, and he paid her a pastoral visit. Her depression lingered. I visited her again. She still lamented, "I can't pay the bill, and the poor man will lose his job." Her suffering was evident. Her sheltered and "precomputer" life did not prepare her to understand today's big-business advertising. So I listened, and then I suggested that we write the man a letter with an apology, explain her cur-rent financial situation, and return the watch. Her eyes lit up at the prospect. Together we composed a letter, which she signed and I mailed. In a few days she was back to normal. A few months later her health declined, simply by reason of her advancing age. When I visited, she looked up at me from her bed and with a most peacef~l look said, "I will never forget your gentleness to me when I thought I would win that money. You were so kind." The entire episode showed us God's grace working in both our lives. I continued to see how greatly these older sisters desire to contribute to the congregation. Review for Religqous Supporting the congregation financially gave meaning to the sisters all their lives, even as they themselves led a frugal existence. They had experienced the Depression firsthand and had stories to tell about begging alongside factories, begging h0use-to-house for summer stipends, or asking for funds by writing letters to family and friends. Today, for some, lotteries and various contests appear to be another source of financial support for the congregation. One sister, clear-minded at ninety-nine, had a lucky streak. Although she lived frugally, I heard rumors of her "having money." Family and friends would buy her lottery tickets and then cash them in for her when she mailed back the winning ticket. Although I was "out of the loop" of direct information about these transactions, I somehow always found out about them. Though some might find gambling question-able in light of the vow of poverty, I waited to see what would happen eventually, since Sister's participation connected her to others and caused no harm. Sometimes months would pass between rumors of her winnings and her eventual cash donation of $200 or $300. The happiness she radiated sent the message that even at ninety-nine she could contribute to the community. She rarely wanted anything for herself. Suspicions about a breach of her vow disappeared. I have often noticed with what pride the sisters contribute their Christmas, birthday, Easter, and anniversary donations to the communal kitty, expecting my gratitude as they do so. I appreciate what they do, but I have encouraged them to find meaning in other parts of their lives too. Their very presence in love, patience, and faith is a meaningful gift to the community, to their families, and to all who witness their kindness. I have invited them to look for ways of spreading the Good News in and beyond the community. I have tried to be attentive to the I have often noticed with what pride the sisters contribute their Christmas, birthday, Easter, and anniversary donations to the communal kitty. March-April 2002 Wodarczyk * Aging ordinary things they accomplish or experience, and I have lis-tened affirmingly as they speak about what they did and are doing with their lives. I have learned, too, about meaning that is not initially obvious. Sister Gina was a "collector." Her room was filled with any-thing and everything. Some might call it clutter. One day she said to me, "You know, when I die, people will complain about all the stuff I left behind. Some have already asked me to clean things up. But I want you to know something. Now that I can go nowhere, I have brought into my room all kinds of things that bring to mind the wonderful friends I have had in my life. These things always make me happy, and I pray for these peo-ple as well." When Sister Gina died, I took care of her things quietly, without others knowing, needing to respect the gen-uineness of her words to me. Most of this "junk" humbly con-veyed love and friendship and gave meaning to Sister Gina's last days. An Incarnational Spirituality When our sisters come to the Manor, transportation diffi-culties and their declining health limit their activity. Two things seem to arise in the absence of formal ministry. There is some-times an unhealthy focus on self and on the "world" of the Manor. Small matters become major concerns. Negativity can result. Teresa of Avila saw such problems in her cloistered monastery.9 There is perhaps no one remedy, but I have seen changes for the better when sisters choose other avenues of ser-vice or ministry or other activities compatible with their new status and their personal limitations. The healthiest and happiest in the Manor were those who were able to rechannel their formation-for-ministry in creative ways. Writing letters to friends, family members, and politi-cians and intercessory prayer for the needs of others are integral to the sisters' lives and are a genuine service they render. Decorating the chapel for feasts, participating as readers or Eucharistic ministers during the litu#gies, companioning another to the physician, sending get-well cards to the hospitalized, and visiting the "second floor" are but a few of the ways the sisters incarnate their love for God in service to their neighbor. Their Review for Religious humble acceptance of their limitations and their patient strug-gles day by day become invaluable tools in building up the body of Christ, as those who are touched by their witness can testi@. For the sisters, their personal sufferings take on deeper mean-ing as they offer them for the intentions of people who have requested their prayer and support. Perhaps some ecumenical healing takes place as well, as staff members of different faiths take care of these sisters, who have lived their lives with hearts so attuned to Roman Catholicism. The sisters remain educators, teaching young care-givers about faith, patience, forgiveness, hope, acceptance and nonacceptance of suffering and dying. The sisters, too, are stretched to go beyond the images of a vowed religious life that is past and gone. After fifty years or more of religious life, that is not a small stretch. Sports on television and radio, and movies, books, excur-sions, concerts, and so forth offer relaxation and outreach--for nothing can "separate us from the love of Christ" (Rm 8:35). Some sisters have become mentors or teachers in various spe-cialties. One Sister translated from Polish to English a valu-able book on the foundress of our community, Frances Siedliska. With phones now in every room, telephone ministry to family and friends became possible. Advocacy for human rights and other special interests is also a possible ministry for the sisters. If we live by the truth and in love, we can "grow in all ways into Christ" (Ep 4:15). All these ways of service build the king-dom of love among the family of God; they express the mis-sion of the Congregation of the Sisters of the Holy Family of Nazareth. "Tell Him to Wait!" Several months ago Sister Helen, our 95-year-old, was quite ill. She ceased to breathe during an MRI, and the hospital staff, acting on impulse rather than consulting her advance directive, resuscitated her. The doctor called me and told me Sister had been placed on a breathing machine. Twenty-four hours later the doctor removed the breathing machine, and, staunchly, Sister Helen survived the ordeal. I visited her in the hospital and reminded her gently, "Sister Helen, you are very ill. Perhaps 1K1 March-April 2002 Jesus will call you soon." "Let him wait," she bellowed; "I'm not dead yet!" I was taken aback, slow to see the humor. Later I reflected: "She has been a baptized Catholic for ninety-five years and a member of our religious community for eighty years. She has prayed each day of those years. She has a profound rela-tionship with God. After eighty years of relating, a certain free-dom of relationship must exist between lovers. How free Love can make us!" Sister Caritas died several years ago, and I especially remem-ber her dying. Racked with fever, in great distress, she held my finger tightly--so firmly that it reminded me of what my friend Maureen told me about a birth. Her sister's husband was on a business trip, and Maureen was in the delivery room with her sister. Her sister grasped her hand so tightly during the birth that Maureen needed several weeks of hand therapy afterward. While grasping my finger, Sister Caritas, too, was being born, born into eternal life. I have been with others who have died, not all struggling as did Sister Caritas. Some have gone to the Lord gently. Others have chosen to stop treatment and accepted the palliative care that became part of that choice. Some died after years, months, or a few days of being bedridden; others, while taking a nap. Each "birthing" has been different, each one very final, each one inviting me to deepen my belief in the life hereafter. Here at the Manor--or anywhere, of course--other kinds of dying occur earlier, before that actual moment. Every stage of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross's death-and-dying theory is lived out here: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.1° Are some stages more appropriate, more holy, than others? ls the sis-ter in denial less effective in dealing with dying than the one who is angry and displacing it at every available opportunity? And the one who bargains--"If I keep on living on the third floor, I'll never get like those on the second floor"--is she less holy than the one whose depression shows all over her face and in her every bodily move? And is she still less holy than the one who grieves her loss, accepts additional personal help, gently accepts the everyday deaths and dyings that are part of human experience? I think there can be no comparisons here. When one strug-gles in the face of d~ath, regardless of what type, the struggle is Review for Religious real. "It remains true," as Pope John Paul has observed, "that the years pass quickly, and the gift of life, for all the effort and pain it involves, is too beautiful and precious for us ever to grow tired of it." 1, And so we struggle and deny, are angered, bargain, and are depressed. In the end we do accept the reality that has been presented to us by Life. The challenge for me in the Manor community was to have faith in this precious journey and trust that the increasing pains are redemptive. I chose to permit people to be themselves: I challenge, but do not force. Rather, I wait in patience for God's grace to touch hearts and hurts and lead all of us into his sacred presence. My Beloved As we religious grow toward accepting death, the inevitable reality shared by all creation, I believe that a life of prayer sustains us. Deep within us all there is an amazing inner sanctuary of the soul, a holy place, a Divine Center, a speaking Voice, to which we may continuously return . It is a Light within which illuminates the face of God. for the spiritual person is forever bringing all affairs down into the light, holding them there in the Presence, reseeing [sic] them and the whole of the world., in a new and overturning way.12 A life of prayer is different for each of us: some tending to more prescribed prayers, others to a more wordless prayer. What is common about prayer life is the deep relationship with God that is so special and so sacred to each one. Inscribed on each sis-ter's profession ring are the words "My Beloved is mine and I am His," from the Song of Songs (2:16). She not only wears that ring, she lives that reality. Recently I was asked to be the community witness when Sister Ann's casket was closed. Before burial we normally remove from the deceased our congregational cross and ring. On this occasion the undertaker could not remove the ring. I advised him to leave it and close the coffin. Reflecting on this moment afterwards, I considered it to be as symbolic as the ring itself. Sister Ann, orphaned as a child, surrendered herself to God March-April 2002 Wodarczyk * Aging through her vows and eventually, as Alzheimer's disease kept taking its toll, was stripped of family, friends, and even cogni-tion. The one thing that remained was the reality: she was her Beloved's and her Beloved was hers. The sisters at the Manor foster that relationship with their Beloved in many ways, including personal and communal prayer. Communally we have had to vary our prayer style here. Because of impaired hearing and sight and various other physical limi-tations, we no longer say Office in common. But the sisters pray faithfully --in their rooms, in the chapel, at Mass, on the porch, while walking outdoors or in the corridors, and during our spe-cial Friday mornings in the chapel. When they are very ill, they may say they cannot pray, and some are troubled by this. Others say that they are simply united with Jesus in their suffering, which is "nothing compared with His." Still others are quiet, their faith wrapping them palpably like a shawl. At times faith grows in darkness. It is no small discomfort when one who has dedicated her ehtire life to God questions the existence of God. When suffering is too much, "God, O God, why did you abandon me?" becomes the prayer of the day, or week, or even longer. In community, even as we pray in various ways, we journey in prayer together. Just as the psalms pray through the gamut of human emotion, so our lives together become a living psalter. Anlen I cannot think of any richer ministry experience within my thirty-nine years as a member of the Congregation of the Sisters of the Holy Family of Nazareth than the time I spent in service to my sisters at Holy Family Manor. But my two three-year terms as convent superior here have come to an end. "Relieved?" my current provincial superior asked me before announcing my replacement. "Mixed feelings," I mumbled. But I know that this is right and good. My body and my spirit home in on a few words in my Moses poem: "Take offyour shoes, believe in your Moses, and go." Now they have a fuller meaning: ". go, relax awhile, and then, changed by this burning-bush experience of yours, go on and minister to whatever people I, your God, choose for you!" I respond: Amen. Review for Religious Notes l Jane Marie Thibault, A Deepening Love Affair: The Gift of God in Later in Life (Nashville: Upper Room Books, 1993). 2 The welcoming service was composed by Sister Therese Frankowski. 3 The names of most of the sisters in this article have been changed. 4 Henri J.M. Nouwen, Behold the Beauty of the Lord: Praying with Icons (Notre Dame: Ave Maria Press, 1987). s Henri J.M. Nouwen, Our Greatest Gift: A Meditation on Dying and Caring (New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1994). 6 David Snowden PhD, Aging with Grace: What the Nuns' Study Teaches Us about Leading Longer, Healthier, and More Meaningful Lives (New York: Bantam Press, 2001). 7 Jean-Pierre de Caussade, Abandonment to Divine Providence, trans. John Beevers (New York: Image Books, 1975), p. 34. ~ Caussade, p. 37. 9 The Way of Perfection, chap. 4. ,0 Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, On Death and Dying (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1969). '~ John Paul II, Letter to the Elderly (1 October 1999), §1. ,z C.S. Lewis, as cited in A Step Beyond: Advanced Training in Pastoral Bereavement Counseling (Archdiocese of New York: The Ministry to the Bereaved, November 1994), p. 32. School Day, 1947 I am seven, on my way to school, crisp snow sparkles in the sun. As I walk along, I reflect that some day a man will offer me a diamond ring, but today God himself has hurled thousands at my feet. Mary Hanson ~larch-April 2002 HELEN JEAN NOVY Coping with Repetition: A Spirituality for Ministering to the Elderly ~ehncoeuthneter rds uwriinthg tfhaem eilldye rvlyis iotfst eonr ifnovromlvael mdeianliisntgry w, iothur their habits of repetition. I have overheard "Dad, you say the exact same thing every time I come," and I have heard myself saying "Mom, you ask me that again and again." The proverb "Variety is the spice of life" inclines us to assume variety as a condition of anyone's continuing interest or at least as a lively attention getter. Repetition, however, is a necessary complement to variety. A systematic interplay of repetition and variation is a sine qua non for the arts. Consider the structure of sonatas or the form of songs. Aaron Copland's "Simple Gifts" in Appalachian Spring is an example of theme and variations, as is Max Reger's Variations on "America." In prayer, too, there is repetiton and variation. Christians regularly praying the Liturgy of the Hours, for example, are so accustomed to Morning Prayer's psalms for Week One that most know them by heart. Their predictability provides a rhythm that matches the regularity of breathing. But along with this comes the season's or feast's antiphon, giving a turn to the verses of the psalm and in a sense reinventing them. Helen Jean Novy HM is director of mission effectiveness at Magnificat High School; 20770 Hilliard Road; Rocky River, Ohio 44116. Review for Religious For Sunday of the First Week in Ordinary Time, this antiphon begins and ends Psalm 63: "As morning breaks I look to you, O God, to be my strength this day." The antiphon suffuses the psalmist's words that follow: "O God, you are my God, for you I long; for you my soul is thirsting. My body pines for you like a dry, weary land without water." For the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, a different anti-phon frames the same psalm w"I know the one whom I have trusted"--and gives it a different tinge: "O God, you are my God, for you I long; for you my soul is thirsting. My body pines for you like a dry, weary land without water." The synoptic Gospels, echoing each other in recounting the same events and sayings, do it with small yet significant differences. Compare the healing of Peter's mother-in-law in Mark 1 .'31 ("he came and took her by the hand and lifted her up. Then the fever left her"), in Luke 4:39 ("he stood over her and rebuked the fever, and it left her"), and in Matthew 8:15 ("he touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up"). Might these considerations guide our responses to the repetitiousness of elderly people who have debilities of memory or concentration? Each encounter with another person, even though seemingly routine, is a new arid original encounter. Both parties are changed by the passing of time--by the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual experiences of the intervening time--even if only minutely. Health has improved or declined; the weather has turned warmer or cooler; clothes are brighter or more uniform; the staff has been updated or has had a turnover; the family has been reunited or suffered a loss; a sacrament has been received or a prayer prayed. "No need to recall the past. I am doing a new thing" (Is 43:18-19). Could Yahweh God be doing this new thing daily? God indeed adds yeast to the dough of the soul, lets it work, and gives it the kneading it requires: prayer and contemplation, opportunities for good works and self-sacrifice, active or passive Perhaps the most mutually soothing response to unceasing repetitions is a silent laying on of hands, a gentle and loving touch. I67 March-April 2002 Novy ¯ Coping witb Repetition suffering, or simply love's perpetually re-creating thoughts and deeds and words. Does it take yeoman patience to hear the same questions, the same comments, the same concerns day in and day out, hour by hour, and even minute by minute? Of course, those who minister have to work on themselves, cultivating a reliable equanimity and ideally a blend of knowing tolerance and psychological and spiritual understanding: Thank heaven she can still respond., what a grace that we can still interact., how humbling that he takes his own debility in stride., bow merciful that she is unaware., what a gift.t that I can encounter the very Christ in the simplicity and vulnerability of this person. Perhaps the most mutually soothing response to unceasing repetitions is a silent laying on of hands, a gentle and loving touch. Only by taking the tensions and strains of working with the sick-elderly to prayer again and again will ministers discover each person as an "imago Christi, a living analogue of the crucified Christ. As they do this, the ministers themselves will be molded into other Christs. They may find themselves praying the antiphons and psalms of the Liturgy of the Hours in the persona of Christ in the sick-elderly: "For you my soul is thirsting. My body pines for you like a dry, weary land without water." In the purview of faith, while the soul of the minister is being tuned to a new pitch, the souls of those they minister to become new songs. The Spirit sings through the adaptive constancy of the one and the dulling repetitions of the others, harmonizing both in the mystery of Divine Providence's unfathomable workings. G.K. Chesterton suggested that we should not take for granted the rising of the sun. Such a glorious phenomenon may well depend on the childlike delight of God calling for an encore: "Do it again, Sun!" Ultimately, deepening spirituality will not only expect the unexpected; it will expect the familiar, the recurring, the repetitious. It will perceive even the annoyance of repetition as a melodic refrain within the grand orchestration ¯ of God. Review for Religious JOAN WAGNER Medaille's "Means" and Religious Life's Renewal At our last meeting, in June 1998, I attempted to show that the primitive documents of the Sisters of St. Joseph indicate that apostolic endeavors have deep mystical foundations. In the present paper I examine other aspects of these primitive documents, aspects that pertain especially to the communal life of small communities that undertake apostolic ministry. Because this article focuses on the spiritual and apostolic insights of Father Jean-Pierre Medaille SJ, it is intended especially for those who walk in his tradition, but also for all professed religious who seek the deepening of their community life and their apostolic action. I will focus on six "means" derived from Father Medaille's writings, but first I draw your attention to two Scripture passages that were of major importance for Medaille: Have this mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself taking the form of a p rspecliv s Joan Wagner ssJ presented this paper in Milwaukee in June 2001 at the fifth triennial meeting of the Conference on the History of Women Religious. Her address is Little Design Community; 171 Schiller Street; Buffalo, New York 14206. March-April 2002 Wagner * Medaille's "Means" servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Ph 2:5-11) That they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them that they may be one even as we are. one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become per-fectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. (Jn 17:21-23) I think that adopting Father Medaille's "means" could help contemporary religious to practice the emptying spoken of in Philippians and thereby achieve the unions spoken of in John's Gospel. After discussing these "means," I will offer some concrete proposals for living them. The new community to which I belong, the community of the Little Design, is attempting to establish its communal life on "the means of Medaille." Clarifying the Scope of Medaille's "Means" The six "means" that I will be discussing cannot be found at any one location within the Primitive Documents of the Sisters of St. Joseph. In fact, nowhere in Medaille's writings did he use the term "means" as I use it in this article. It is a concept that was first formed in the latter decades of the 20th century, that is, three hundred years after Medaille, by a commentator on the Primitive Documents, Sister Julie Harkins of the Boston Sisters of St. Joseph. I first encountered Sister Julie's work when I attended a charism retreat that she gave in Wichita, Kansas. In her presentation she referred to "six central means found in the lived experience of our first sisters to maintain unity among themselves and to be apostolic communities of love." Even as I Review for Religious taped her presentation at that conference, I felt that her ideas and concepts about Medaille's approach were truly a treasure. It seemed to me that Medaille had applied St. Ignatius Loyola's Rules for Discernment in a new way, using at the communal level the retreat pedagogy of reflection on experience. He adapted those rules to unlettered and diverse groups of women, to assist them in becoming apostolic communities of love. Other interpreters of the Primitive Documents of the Sisters of St. Joseph such as Sister Vacher and Sister de Vaublanc have analyzed the practices that Medaille proposed for the early sisters. Not all of these commentators would agree that the six "means" identified by Sister Julie Harkins capture the heart of Medaille's approach. Other phrasings and other lists of "means" have been proposed. It has also been suggested that Medaille's approach can be represented by one expansive "means," the sisters' sharing their hearts unreservedly. To shed additional light on whether I-Iarldns's six "means" adequately represent Medaille's approach, I suggest that we consider how difficult it would be to distill the central practices recommended by St. Paul. We know that Paul wrote extensively about the living of the Christian life. (His writings are far more extensive than Medaille's even if we consider all the Maxims and other Primitive Documents to be authentically his.) How then to express the central "means" of St. Paul? One commentator might comb through his writings and identify six "means" as central. Another might determine that there are actually four or eight or one. Obviously there is much room for disagreement. Keep in mind, then, that there are various ways of presenting the essence of Medaille's approach even as I now list Harkins's six "means." I advocate them as the basis of the community life of religious women, today--but always understanding their meaning within the Gospels' call to discipleship. Please note, too, that in Harldns's list there are two dimensions in Means 2 (and perhaps in Means 3 as well). And there is some overlapping among the various "means" since the boundaries among them are not tightly drawn. Finally, note that Means 6 is phrased in such a broad, all-encompassing way that it seems to subsume the preceding five "means." Here, then, is Sister Julie Harkins's list of Medaille's "means": 171 March-April 2002 _Wag~, er ¯ Medaille's "Means" 1. Sharing experiences and feelings in prayer and doing so with candor and simplicity (Reglements, p. 9 par. 6). 2. Sharing the state of the house (outer as well as inner) and sharing the next step to which ofie is called (Reglements, p. 8 par. 4; Primitive Constitutions, p. 16 par. 1; p. 21 par. 4, 5, 6; p. 39 par. 6; p. 51 par. 8). 3. Sharing the dangers (evils) that threaten community life; protesting (promising) to safeguard what will safeguard the common union (Primitive Constitutions, pp. 58-66; Protestations, pp. 67-68). 4. Sharing what is our city and dividing the city among ourselves to discover the evils and to work for their healing (Primitive Constiitutions, p. i1 par. 6; p. 29 par. 9; p. 30 par. 1-3; p. 31 par. 1-2). 5. Sharing with each other how through works of service they are building the kingdom of love among the dear neighbors and the members of the community (Reglements, p. 8 par. 4; Primitive Constitutions, p. 17 par. 2). 6. Fidelity to the core spirituality: being grouped in honor of the Father, Son, and Spirit; Jesus, Mary, and Joseph (Maxims of Perfection, pp. 21-22; Reglements, pp. 4-5; Primitive Constitutions, pp. 12 and 57). Putting Medaille's "Means" into Practice You can see that the first three "means" listed pertain to spiritual bonding within the community; they deal primarily with discernment of spirits as a way of life. The next two "means" pertain to discerning the apostolic and prophetic stance to which the community may be called; these "means" address discernment as a decision-making process. Finally, the sixth "means" stands above the others and informs all of them inasmuch as it focuses upon the mystical relationships that are at the heart of the calling that Medaille identified for the Sisters of St. Joseph. I am keenly excited about having our Little Design community underway. This small community employs Medaille's own term, and it represents the fulfillment of a dream for refoundation that I have had for forty years. (Be it known, however, that at least one other person has called this dream my Review for Religious obsession.) As I write, this house is only three months old and at present has only two members. We have good hopes of attracting other young women who are interested in a life that is based on these six "means" of becoming an apostolic community of love. Let us now consider Medaille's first "means": sharing experiences and feelings in prayer and doing so with candor and simplicity. I will first try to explain why I feel that this is important, and then I will offer some recommendations about how to practice such sharing. The mystery of faith revealed to us in Scripture, particularly in Paul and John, is that all of history is now sacred history. This is the impact of the incarnation on our daily life (note--in Philippians 2:6-11, one of the passages cited above--the relevance of Paul's theology). All of our ordinary daily life is filled with God drawing our human consciousness to God's Self. God desires for us an ever-growing love and participation in the life of Jesus. This goes on in each moment of our human experience, and it registers as a thought, a tendency, a mood, a feeling. (Father George Aschenbrenner SJ has emphasized this approach in his conferences.) It is one thing to believe this. It is another to be deeply aware of it. It is a third step to be keenly sensitive to it. Our response is toward a greater share in living out Jesus' mission (note here the relevance of the John 17 passage on unity). To share within a community (I envision one of three to five sisters) one's experience in prayer presupposes incarnational theology and could move the community from believing to the final stage of responding. Submission to the group mandate for the purpose of growth enables believing, awareness, and sensitivity to develop. And movements of grace obviously become more explicit when inner awareness moves to vocal articulation. Sharing one's prayer experience with candor and simplicity is a demanding endeavor. An emptying is required, but I believe it leads to a new depth of communal unity if it is done in faith, All of our ordinary daily life is f!lled with God drawing our human consciousness to God's Self. --!73 Mt~.rcb-dpril 2002 Wagner ¯ Medaille's "Means" trust, and love. This depth is the mystery of God made more manifest in and among ourselves. We become more conscious of the call to respond and to be accountable. How would this be implemented? A possible scenario would be a biweekly gathering at which community members would relate movements of consolation and desolation during their prayer of the previous few days. Journaling after prayer periods would help members to be more responsibly prepared for the group gathering. Those who have had an Ignatian directed retreat will easily identify with this process. At present our small community enters into Morning Praise with a psalm, quiet time to reflect, and then the citing of a word, phrase, or line that was "given." The Gospel for the day is then read aloud. This is followed by a brief period of quiet and a brief time of communal sharing. All of this is done within half an hour and prepares us for deeper listening at liturgy. The content of our prayer in the future may vary, but the communal sharing is integral. Medaille's second "means" has three aspects: sharing the state of the house (outer as well as inner) and sharing the next step to which one is called. "The state of the house" has two meanings: first, the practical details of the community's living quarters. For harmonious living, responsibility and accountability are expected from every member. Such matters as cleaning, shopping for food, preparing meals, paying bills, scheduling prayer, hospitality, and times for silence are basic elements in a well-ordered "house." Honesty prevailing, the community will be aware of members' overextension or ill health, of things needing repair, and so forth. With solutions to be found, the quality presence of each member is important. The ebb and flow of external harmony is guaranteed by this practical sharing. The other "house" is the inner one, the heart. Teresa of Avila in her Way of Perfection notes that in praying it is essential to recognize and own how one is as one stands before the Beloved: weak, grateful, sinful, needy. This ownership of my incarnate self relates me to the incarnate Jesus. In truth, to articulate that inner state demands honesty, probes causes, and elicits understanding. What a sacred gift to offer my sisters: an emptying for the purpose of union,t My creaturely limitation stands naked before the Christ I trust, and before the Body of Review for Religious Christ in my sisters. Transformation in Christ occurs when I share in Jesus' life--in his being child of God and sharer in created human nature. The next aspect of the second "means," sharing the next step to which one is called, flows out of the group's increasing sensitivity. Articulation of deeper desires was a requirement for Jesuit novices, and this may have influenced Medaille to recommend this sharing to the first sisters. Great desires for God need to be fostered into action or they die. One's next step may be small and subtle or grand and significant. It could be to create a dream, to change a pattern of behavior, to attend to one's health, or to begin a new relationship. Such matters require careful handling with regard to the members' personal and communal mission. They begin in the human heart. It was the sharing that Teresa of Avila had with John of the Cross that enabled them to take the next steps for the refoundation of the Carmelite order. It was the vision that Ignatius shared with Francis Xavier that led to his bringing the faith to south and east Asia. Incarnational theology points out that our deepest desires are God-given. The word God gives us is to be spoken and enfleshed. The emptying required in taking next steps in our lives is attested to in the lives of men and women who accomplished much for God. A Saturday morning once a month could be set aside to ensure Medaille's second "means." Although the focus would vary, all aspects of this "means" would be attended to within this leisurely time together. Community members could take turns facilitating a simple process that might begin with listening to a member describe a project that she feels called to initiate. The listening could be followed b~ quiet reflection, questions, and dialogue. In this way one member's hopeful desire would be gracefully fostered and nurtured or deemed unsuitable or temporarily tabled for deeper discerning. At present our Little Design community gathers in the community room on Saturday mornings for about an hour and a Incarnational theology points out that our deepest desires are God-given. March-April 2002 H~ner * Medaille'~ "Means" half, a time we consider sacred. Because we are a new community, we do this every Saturday unless some special event interferes. We realize, too, that it is easy to spend too much time on the "outer" house, and so we strive to ensure the more interior and bonding elements of this second "means." Medaille's third "means" is sharing the dangers (evils) that threaten community life, protesting (promising) to safeguard what will safeguard the common union. One might ask wh

AN ANALYSIS OF TRANSLATING THE ADDRESSING TERMS IN PRAMOEDYA ANANTA TOER'S THIS EARTH OF MANKIND Azimatul Fauziah English Literature, Faculty of Languages and Arts, State University of Surabaya azimatul13@gmail.com Dian Rivia Himmawati, SS, M.Hum. English Language and Literature Department, Faculty of Languages and Arts, State University of Surabaya dianrivia@gmail.com ABSTRAK Studi ini focus pada penerjemahan sapaan dalam Bumi Manusia sebagai bahasa sumber dan This Earth of Mankind sebagai bahasa sasaran. Penelitian ini bertujuan untuk mengetahui pengaruh dari kekuasaan dan solidaritas dalam penerjemahan sapaan dan mengetahui faktor yang menyebabkan ketakterjemahan dalam menerjemahkan sapaan. Metode deskriptif kualitatif, teori penerjemahan (House; 2009), hubungan antar kata , kata ganti orang yang memiliki kekuasaan dan solidaritas (Brown and Gilman; 1960), dan register kategori Halliday digunakan untuk menganalisa data. Hasil analisa menunjukan bahwa ada tiga macam sapaan di This Earth of Mankind, sapaan dalam bahasa Belanda, Melayu, dan Jawa. Beberapa sapaan dari bahasa yang berbeda memiliki makna yang sepadan dan penerjemah menerjemahkannya dengan istilah yang sama dengan menggunakan 'denotative equivalence' dan pragmatic equivalence. Penerjemah gagal memahami bahwa penulis membedakan sapaan untuk penjajah dan jajahan, keluarga bangsawan dan masyarakat umum, hubungan formal dan keakraban. Masalah penerjemahan sapaan terjadi ketika sapaan tersebut memiliki konsep khusus yang berhubungan dengan budaya tertentu namun tidak memiliki istilah padanan dalam bahasa sasaran dan karena sistem tatabahasa yang berbeda. Oleh karena itu, penerjemah menggunakan dua pandangan yang berbeda untuk menerjemahkan sapaan. pandangan yang pertama terpusat pada bahasa sumber sedangkan pandangan yang kedua terpusat pada proses penafsiran penerjemah. Hal tersebut membuat terjemahan menjadi sangat berbeda jika dilihat dari mode (cara), field (bidang), dan tenor (tujuan). Kata Kunci: penerjemahan, sapaan, padanan, budaya, kekuasaan ABSTRACT This study focuses on the translation of addressing term in Bumi Manusia as source text and This Earth of Mankind as target text. The purpose of this study is to find out the influence of power and solidarity in translating the addressing terms and find out the factors of untranslatability in translating addressing term. Descriptive qualitative method, translation theory (House; 2009), lexical relation (Kreidler; 1998), pronoun of power and solidarity (Brown and Gilman; 1960), and Hallidayan register categories are applied to analyze the data. The result show that there are three kinds of addressing terms in This Earth of Mankind, Dutch addressing term, Malay addressing term, and Javanese addressing term. Some addressing terms from different language have the same proportional meaning and the translator translated them as the same term and the translator used denotative equivalence and pragmatic equivalence. The translator failed to catch that the author differ the addressing term to show the difference between colonize and colonizer, aristocrat family and common people, intimacy relation and formal relation. The problem of translating addressing terms appeared when the special concept of addressing term related to particular culture do not have any equivalence term in target text and the different of grammatical system. Therefore, it makes the translator use double perspective in translating the addressing term. The first focuses on the source text while the other focus on the process of interpretation by the translator. It made the result of the translation become really different from the original seen from register categories: mode, field, and tenor. Keywords: translation, addressing term, equivalence, culture, dan power INTRODUCTION Bumi Manusia is one of the greatest works of Pramoedya Ananta Toer who was frequently discussed as Indonesia's and Southeast Asia's best candidate for a Nobel Prize in Literature. Terms of addressee plays important role in Bumi Manusia because it indicates the social status of someone. There are three kinds of addressing terms based on ethnicity in this novel. They are Dutch addressing term, Malay addressing term, and Javanese addressing term. Oyetade (as quoted in Chu-Cing Hsu; 2) defines terms of addresseeas words or linguistic expression which speakers use to designate the person being talked to while talk is in progress or which writers use to address the recipient in written communication. Moreover, Braun (1988:7) explains that the actual use and the function of addressing terms depands on the stucture of language, on the speaker's intention and on the address relationship between two interlocutors, as well as on the occasion of the occurrence. Juliane House (2009: 4) defined translation as a process of replacing a text in one language by text in another language. He also explained that translating is not only a linguistic act but it is also an act of communication across culture. Translating terms of addressee from Indonesian into English is not easy because they have different pronominal form. In translating addressing term, the translator should notice on the detail. Words can only be understood when it is considered together with the cultural context. So, in translating addressing term, it is not only replacing the word to another language but creating the same meaning and atmosphere as similar as the original text. Moreover, the addressing terms in Bumi Manusia are closely related to power. Braun and Gilman defined Power as ability to control behavior over another. They also said that power is a relationship between at least two persons, and it is nonreciprocal in the sense that both can not have the same power in the same area of behavior (1960: 254). People who have power will be addressed differently from common people. Power is associated with high social status and it reflects respect and honor. So, people from high social status will be addressed in polite way to show a great reverence. To translate a text as similar as the source text, it is needed to see whether the source text is equivalent to target text or not. House defined equivalence as how similarity of message or function is interpreted (2009: 29). There are many types of equivalence and it depends on the perspective that the translator used. It is possible to use denotative equivalence that use 'real world' referents to which the text relates. Also, the translator could use other equivalence such as pragmatic equivalence which focuses to fulfill its communicative function for the recipients. This study tries to discuss the factors of untranslatability in translating addressing term. There are two research questions for this study, (1) How does the translator translate the Indonesian addressing terms in Toer's Bumi Manusia into English version, This Earth of Mankind? (2) What is the influence of power and solidarity toward the choices of addressing terms in Toer's Bumi Manusia? This study tries to describe about the method of the translator in translating addressing term and know the influence of power and solidarity in translating the addressing term. This study only focuses on translating the addressing terms that have any equivalence problems in their translation and do not pay attention to grammar or another linguistic aspect. This study tries to describe about the process of young learner with visual learning style acquire language and know the relationships between personality and learning style. This study is not only focusing in linguistics but also covering learning activities and psychology area but it is not for learning strategy. Several theories are becoming main cores of this study, such as translation theory of House, lexical relation of Kreidler and Brown and Gilman in pronoun of power and solidarity. . RESEARCH METHOD This study uses descriptive-qualitative in getting and describing about the translating addressing terms phenomena in This Earth of Mankind. This study needs to be explained by words not by numbers or statistics, because this study is stressing on translation aspect and its relationship with culture. Bodgan and Biklen (1984:5) defined the qualitative approach as a research procedure which produces a descriptive data such as verbal or nonverbal utterances or words from the object being observed. The data for this study are utterances. There are two sources of data used in this study. Those data are Toer's Bumi Manusia as source text that was written by Pramoedya Ananta Toer and This Earth of Mankind as target text that was translated by Max Lane. Observation is used to analyze this research. Observation includes collection of the data that is needed by the researcher without manipulating. Sugiyono(2010, p. 146) adds that observation is done by the researcher about what the researcher wants to observe in the research. To observe this research, internet access and taking a note are needed by the researcher as the basic instrument. There were three steps to analyze the data. They were data reduction, data display and conclusion and verification. The researcher sorted the data by choosing the addressing terms that had problem with equivalence. Then, she displayed the data in table. Conclusion and verification became the last step of the data analysis process. In this case, the data had been displayed and discussed before were concluded. The conclusion was the answer of the problems existing supported by some theories related (Sugiyono, 2010, p. 345). To answer the first question, the researcher used lexical relation of Kreidler in his book introducing English semantic and translation theory by Machali. Then, in answering the research question number two, the researcher used pronoun of power and solidarity by Brown and Gilman, translation theory by Nababan and House, then collaborate with Hallidayan register categories of field, mode and tenor. ANNALYSIS AND DISCUSSION There are two analyses in this section. The first is the analysis of the method that was used by translator to translate addressing terms. The second is the analysis of relation between power and solidarity toward the addressing terms. In translating terms of addressees, the translator should find the equivalence between the source text and the target text. House (2009: 29) defines equivalence as a similar message and fulfills a similar function. The writer noticed that the translator use some different patterns. The first pattern, the translator tried to find out the literal or denotative equivalence which use 'real world' as referents for source text to target text. The second pattern, the translator used the original addressing terms from the source text and provided glossary for informing the meaning of the addressing terms in the end of the novel. The last, the translator changed the addressing terms to different addressing terms as the adaptation to the context of target language. After analyzing the method that was used by translator to translate addressing terms, the research used the following table to sum up the result: Table 1 The Comparison of Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia and This Earth of Mankind No Original Translation Procedure Problem 1. Juffrouw Miss Literal translation Different in context 2. Noni Miss Literal translation Different in context 3. Noni Noni Annotation Inconsistent 4. Mevrouw Mrs/Madam/ Ma'am Literal translation Different in context 5. Mevrouw Miss Free translation Different in meaning 6. Tuanmuda Young master Literal translation Different in context 7. Tuanmuda Master Literal translation Inconsistent 8. Tuan Sir/Mr. Literal translation Different in context 9. Tuan Tuan Annotation Inconsistent 10. Tuan You/he Free translation Different in function 11. Tuan-tuan Tuans Free translation Different in meaning 12. Ndoro Master Literal translation Different in context 13. Ndoro Ndoro Annotation Inconsistent 14. Sahaya I Literal translation Different in context 15. Sahaya Your servant Free translation Different in meaning 16. Meneer Mr. Literal translation Different in context 17. Papa Father Literal translation Different in context 18 Kowe You Literal translation Different in context 19. Nak Child Literal translation Different in context 20. Nyai Nyai Annotation - 21. Nyai-nyai Nyais Free translation Different in meaning 22. Gus Gus Annotation - 23. Sinyo Sinyo Annotation - 24. Mas Mas Annotation - 25. Abang Your friend Free translation Different in meaning 26. Man Man Free translation Different in context 27. Mr Mr. Free translation Different in meaning As shown from the table above, Malay dominated the addressing terms because Malay is neutral language that can be used by Javanese and Dutch in their daily conversations. Noni, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Nak, Sinyo, and Abang are addressing terms that belong to Malay addressing terms. These terms are more common because Malay is widely used in all Dutch East Indies. In the other hand, there were some Javanese addressing terms such as Nyai, Ndoro, Kowe, Gus, Mas, and Man that were used in particular occasions or refer to particular people. Similar to Javanese addressing terms, Dutch addressing terms are only used for certain people. Juffrouw, Mevrouw, Meneer, and Meester are Ducth addressing terms that only used to call Dutch people. There are three patterns in translating addressing terms. In the first pattern, the translator used denotative equivalence which only focused on the meaning of the terms. Machali (2000) stated that as a method, literal translation considers as the most important translation procedure because the basic of literal translation is in clause or sentence level. However, translating addressing terms include and reflect the culture of the society because the addressing terms that were used by the characters determine their background whether their status or ethnicity. Even the words in source text have the same denotation with target text, they do not always have the same connotation. The translator used two different procedures in translating the addressing terms for the first pattern. The first procedure is lexical translation which is used to translate Tuanmuda, Tuan, Papa, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Aku, Kowe, and Nak. Some of the terms are not appropriate because there is the difference of interpersonal perspective. The second procedure is adaptation. The translator attempted to make the addressing terms familiar in target text. The terms Juffrouw, Mevrouw, Meneer, Ndoro, and Noni are special concepts that were used in Dutch colonial era. The translation text could be understood by the reader of the target text, but the reader can not catch the essence that those terms are particular addressing terms for certain groups. So, even the words of source text have denotative equivalence in target text, but they are not suitable for the context of source text. In the second pattern, the translator did not change the addressing terms because the terms, Noni, Nyai, Ndoro, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas are special concept of source text that do not have any equivalence word in target text. The translator used annotation to translate because he persisted to use the original terms and gave glossary to explain the meaning of the term. The writer noticed that the translator is understand that the addressing terms have important role to distinguish the identity of the characters, but he only highlighted Javanese addressing terms. The concept of thing in Dutch and English are almost similar because they are in the same language family. So, the translator was easy to find out the lexical equivalence from Ducth terms to English terms. However, the concept of some words such as Noni, Sinyo, and Nyai are especially used in colonial era, so it is difficult to find out the equivalence in target text. Ndoro, Gus, and Mas are terms from Javanese culture who really emphasis in status and familiarity while English only differ for formal or informal situation. Unfortunately, the translator used inconsistent translation procedures for one term. For instance, the term Noni is translated as Miss by using lexical translation and the translator also used annotation in other text so that he did not change the addressing terms. These conditions would make the reader confuse and would make wrong interpretation that Miss and Noni are different. The last pattern showed that the translator change the form of the addressing terms. The translator used free style translation. The translator missed to understand the language system of source text and target text because he translated Nyai-Nyai as Nyais and Tuan-Tuan as Tuans. Nyai and Tuan are not English term, so the plural form of Nyai and Tuan are not necessarily Nyais or Tuans because it is unclear whether Nyai and Tuan are countable or uncountable noun. Accountability concept is universal concept that can be understood by all people and can be expressed through lexical structure in all language, but not all languages have grammatical category for number and not all languages apply the same concept for number. The second analysis is relation between power and solidarity toward the addressing using T and V because in previous part, there are many translations of addressing term that are not appropriate to the context of the novel. The ways of people in choosing the addressing terms are really related to the culture that exist in their society. The culture of society consists of everything that everybody has to know or believe in order to operate manner that acceptable for its member. In Javanese society, especially in the past, the kingdom applied feudal system. This system force lower class people to respect much to people who have more power. Gilman (1960; 252) defined Power as a relationship between at least two persons and it is nonreciprocal because both can not have the same authority. There are many forms of power such as physical strength, wealth, age, sex, institutionalized role in the state, the army, or within the family. The relations called older than, richer than, stronger than, employer of, richer than and nobler then are all asymmetrical. If A is older than B, B is not older than A. The relation called "more powerful than". The pronoun usage expressing this power relation is also asymmetrical or nonreciprocal, with the greater receiving V and the lesser T. Pronoun form of T and V were used by some European countries to differ between 'singular you' tu (T) and 'plural you' vos (V). Now, T and V are used as symbols; the T form is often described as the familiar form and the V form as the polite one. The superior will say T to the inferior and receives V, and vice versa. T and V approach also could be used to indicate solidarity. The T form is usually used by people who stand in the same position. It reflects symmetrical relation; for instance: attended the same school or have the same parents or practice in the same profession. The T of solidarity can be produced by frequency of contact as well as by objective similarities. The dimension of solidarity is potentially appropriate to all persons addressed. Power superiors may be solidarity (parents, elder siblings) or not solidarity (officials whom one seldom sees). Reciprocal T usage was always available to show intimacy. The following part would discuss the power of characters and its influence among the other characters and the writer used T and V form to analyze them. To sum up the relation of power and solidarity through the addressing term that were chosen by the characters in Bumi Manusia, the writer summarized them into a table. The table would illustrate the addressing terms, the interlocutors, the relation between interlocutors, and the function of the addressing terms. Table 2 The T and V form of Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia No Addressing Term Interlocutor Relation Function 1 Juffrouw Java – Dutch Dutch- Indo nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 2 Noni Java – Indo nonreciprocal Respecting 3 Mevrouw Java – Dutch Dutch -Dutch Indo – Indo nonreciprocal reciprocal reciprocal Respecting showing intimacy respecting 4 Nyai Java – Java Dutch - Java reciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 5 Tuanmuda Dutch – Java Java - Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 6 Tuan Java - Java Java – Dutch nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 7 Ndoro Java – Dutch Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 8 Meneer Java – Dutch nonreciprocal Respecting 9 Mama Ann – Nyai Minke – Nyai nonreciprocal nonreciprocal showing intimacy showing intimacy 10 Papa Indo – western nonreciprocal showing intimacy 11 Aku Java - Java Java – Dutch reciprocal nonreciprocal showing intimacy showing intimacy 12 Sahaya Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 13 Kowe Dutch – Java nonreciprocal Disrespecting 14 Nak Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 15 Gus Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 16 Sinyo Java –Indo Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 17 Abang Indo - Indo Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting showing intimacy 18 Mas Indo – Java reciprocal showing intimacy 19 Man Dutch – Java nonreciprocal Disrespecting 20 Mr (Meester) Java – Dutch nonreciprocal Respecting The table above shows that there are three functions of addressing terms, respecting, disrespecting, and showing intimacy. From the data above, the relations of the interlocutors are mostly nonreciprocal, so it shows that social status is very important in colonial era because the nonreciprocal relations illustrate the difference power between addressor and addressee. In many nonreciprocal cases, the higher social status will get V form from the addressors to show their respect and say T form because they are not stand in the same position as the addressee. Except respecting, nonreciprocal relation is also used to show disrespect. The addressing terms that are used to disregard are especially designed for lower class by upper class or have bad connotation. In contrast, to show intimacy, the relations of the interlocutors are sometimes reciprocal or nonreciprocal. The dimension of solidarity is little bit different from power, because even the interlocutors are not stand in the same position they can use intimate addressing terms because their relations are close. DISCUSSION After analyzing the translation of addressing terms from the source text to target text, now the writer discusses the result of the analysis. Comparison of Original and Translation The research compares the field, tenor, and mode of Bumi Manusia and This Earth of Mankind. The concept of field, tenor, and mode are sociolinguistic dimensions of context of situation jointly characterizing a particular register. House (2009; 33) stated that the original and its translation should have an equivalent function whenever possible. He also said that text and context of situation are indeed separated, but the two interact with each other through inextricable connection between the social environment and the functional organization of language. Before analyzing the register, it is needed to analyze the genre first. House (2009; 35) explained that genre connect an individual text with the larger cultural context of the linguistic and cultural community in which the text is embedded. The genre of Bumi Manusia is historical fiction but it is based on the reality. It included to historical story because the setting illustrated the situation of Indonesia in the late of nineteenth century. The author used particular time and places that make the story as if it was real. The story happened in 1890's, when the national movement had been begun by native to fight against colonizer through non-violence way. Field The first dimension of register is field. Holmes (2009; 34) explained that field captures the subject matter or topic. It describes what the text is about and what kinds of thing are in text. The text was about Minke's life. It describe Minke's journey who is a naïve boy at first to be a mature person. In that process, Minke should face many problems dealing not only with himself but also his society and the colonizer. The complexities of Minke's problem include the conflict of social judgments, hierarchy system, and racial conflict. The description of this story is not so much as historical text but an attractive, easily readable story. Evidence for this is the use of Malay language in telling the story rather than Javanese or Dutch. Malay was language of interracial communication which was used by many people weather Native or Eurasian. However, there were many terms that are not Malay, but they were only used as addressing term. The choice of particular addressing term in Bumi Manusia shows the style of speaking and the purpose of the speaker, indeed the social status. Mevrouw, Juffrouw, Meester, and Meneer are some addressing terms that were borrowed from Dutch language, while Mas, Ndoro, Gus, Mas and Man are some addressing terms that were borrowed from Javanese language. The used of various addressing terms has function as the mark of power and solidarity. As seen in table 4.1.3 (see page 102) there are three functions of addressing terms, respecting, disrespecting, and showing intimacy. From that data, the relations of the interlocutors are mostly nonreciprocal, so it shows that social status is very important in colonial era because the nonreciprocal relations illustrate the difference power between addressor and addressee. The feudal and colonial system forced people to respect everyone who have more power. Geertz (1960: 282) explained that it is nearly impossible for language that applied etiquette system to say anything without indicating the social relationship between the speaker and the listener in terms of status and familiarity. In many nonreciprocal cases, the higher social status will get V form from the addressors to show their respect and say T form because they are not stand in the same position as the addressee. Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ndoro, Menner, Sahaya, Sinyo, Abang, and Meester are addressing terms to show respect. The translation appears to be generally and decrease its local color because the absence of Dutch addressing terms as the marker of Dutch colonial. Even the translation of Dutch addressing terms have the same function to respect the addressee, the translation can not replace the emotion and the feeling of the original. Except respecting, nonreciprocal relation is also used to show disrespect. The addressing terms that are used to disregard are especially designed for lower class by upper class or have bad connotation. For instance, Kowe is addressing term that was used by Dutch people to express disrespect toward Javanese. The translation of Kowe, you, can not express the same function as the original because this term is neutral addressing term. In contrast, to show intimacy, the relations of the interlocutors are sometimes reciprocal or nonreciprocal. The dimension of solidarity is little bit different from power. Even the interlocutors were not stand in the same position they can use intimate addressing terms because their relations are close. In Bumi Manusia, the relations of the people who used intimate addressing terms such as Mama, Papa, Gus, Abang, and Nak were nonreciprocal. Gus, Abang and Nak were used by older people to younger people. In Javanese, age is one of the main distinctions of nonreciprocal relation. The older people do not need to use polite form, but in this case Gus, Abang and Nak are polite addressing term that indicated close relationship between older and younger people. The translation of Abang (your friend) and Nak (child) can not full fill the same function as the intimate sign like the original did. Tenor House (2009; 34) stated that tenor refers to the nature of the participants, the author and his or her addressee, the relationship between them in terms of social power and familiarity, the author's intellectual and affective position, that is, his or her personal viewpoint. The author was an Indonesian author of novels, short stories, essays, polemic and histories of his homeland and its people. The author seemed to be very aware of the conditions of his story. He attempted to create colonial atmosphere as same as the reality. The choice of the addressing terms included Dutch, Malay, and Javanese was the evident. By differing the addressing terms based on the ethnicity and social status, the author would like to inform the reader the 'reality' in the past. He wanted to show that there were social distance between poor and rich, also Javanese as the colony and Dutch as the colonizer. He persisted to use Dutch addressing terms rather than change it into Malay to create colonial atmosphere because at that time Dutch people make their language as exclusive language. The translator also tried to create colonial atmosphere by using Java and Malay addressing term that do not have equivalent in English. However, instead of using Dutch term as the author did, the translator change the addressing terms into English. Dutch and English are still in the same language family, so there are many terms of English and Dutch that have the same meaning. Mevrouw, Juffrouw, Meneer, and Meester are Dutch terms. Except Meester, they are denotatively equivalent. Mevrouw could be translated as Mrs, Juffrouw as Miss, and Meneer as Mr. They have the same referents in the real world, so it makes them denotatively equivalents. Although, the translator failed to capture that Dutch addressing term has special function as imperial impression. Ashcroft (2002; 7) stated that one of main features of imperial oppression is control over language. Dutch people, at that time, not only controlled for social, politic, and economic aspects but also controlled the language. They limit the used of their language for themselves and their offspring to marginalize their colonies. The translator did not catch the author's aim that he wanted to show the great distance between Dutch and Javanese people. Instead of giving the Dutch colonial atmosphere, the translator gave mental image of British colonialism because the special terms that implicate Dutch colonialism had been translated in English terms. Based on the table in 4.1 (see page 3), most addressing term translation dealt with cultural context. This problem arose because the translation and the original can not make the same psychological understanding for the readers. In addition, the translator used inconsistent term in his translations that primarily make the reader confused. Mode House (2009; 34) defined Mode as a channel of communication. Equivalence in dimension of mode relates to the means whereby the communication is performed. In Bumi Manusia, there were some addressing terms that have different meaning than the lexical meaning because of the feeling of the speaker. Kowe actually is common addressing terms in Javanese society to address someone who is younger or have closed relation, but when it is used by Dutch people the function is changed from showing intimacy become disrespecting. When the Dutch people used Kowe in Bumi Manusia novel, the character always used it in high tension. However, the reader will not catch that Kowe has negative connotation directly because the translation term, you, is neutral addressing terms. The communication purpose of the term Kowe cannot easily catch. So, the irritation of the character could not be understood by the reader. As seen from the mode, field, and tenor analyses above, it show that the original and the translation are not equivalence. The genre of the translation in translating addressing term is not so much as the original because some translation of the addressing terms can not reveal the atmosphere of Dutch colonial that become the main point in this equivalence problem. Equivalence Problem in Translating Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia The analysis of register categories above clearly showed that the original and translation are not equal. Equivalence of source text and target has limited area because not all of the equivalence approaches can achieved all translation cases. The main factor that made the addressing in source text do not have suitable equivalence in target text is the special concept of Dutch colonial and Javanese culture. Nababan (1999: 99) said that the concept of source text can reveal a concept that is not well known in the target text. Some addressing terms from source text that has special concept are difficult to have their equivalence in target text because of the cultural concept of addressing term from Dutch and Javanese like Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai, Ndoro, Meneer, Gus, Sinyo, Mas, Man, and Meester. Those terms can not easily be transferred to target text because those terms are created by certain condition in particular communities. Some of those terms, Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Ndoro, and Meneer have the same denotation with the translation term, but the original and translation addressing term have different connotation that make them share different interpretation. The special concept that can not be replaced in target text lead to others related problem. The special concept of particular culture make the language concept of source text is not available in target text. Nababan (1999: 99) explained that the words of source text could be understand and recognized in target text but the target text does not have a term that can reveal the concept from source text. In this case, the term Sahaya and Kowe in source text have different concept from Aku and Kau. The target text do not differ the first and second singular pronoun that make the translation of Sahaya and Kowe have different function from source text. Even the concept of Sahaya and Kowe could be understand in the target text, but the term that have the same meaning and connotation with those term are not available. So, the translator used 'I' and 'you' in a pinch to replace Sahaya and Kowe even 'I' and 'you' also used to translate Aku and Kau. The complexities of Javanese community that apply speech level also direct the translation to the equivalence problem because it makes difference of interpersonal perspective. Nababan (1999: 03) argued that interpersonal perspective is related to the relation of the participants in a text. In a language that really concern to etiquette like Javanese, Geertz stated that it is impossible to address someone without pay attention to the status of the addressee. Etiquette system force the people to create different term for one concept, so the participant can easily choose the right term to address someone that suitable for both the addressor and the addressee. For instance, in Bumi Manusia there are three different addressing terms to call male parent, Papa, Ayah and Ayahanda. The use of those addressing term could reflect the social status of the addressor and the addressee. Papa is used in western family who live Dutch East Indies, Ayah is used in middle-low family, while Ayahanda is used in Javanese aristocrat family. This difference of Papa, Ayah and Ayahanda can not be seen in the translation because the translator translated them as 'father'. The other problem of equivalence that appears because of the particular culture of the two languages is the difference of expressive meaning. According to Nababan (1999: 103) the words in source text and target text have the same proportional meaning but often they are different in expressive meaning. There are many addressing terms that have the same proportional meaning but they are different in expressive meaning because Malay terms differentiate the addressing terms based on the relationship and the social status. The term Nak has the same proportional meaning with child, but they are used in different intention. Nak is for showing intimacy but child dispose to create formal atmosphere rather than familiarity. Both terms have the same proportional meaning but they express different purpose and connotation. The different perspective toward a concept will also lead the translation to equivalence problem (Nababan, 1999: 101). Furthermore, it is also the effect of special concept in source text. The term Man in Javanese context at that time was used to address Javanese adult male from middle-low status. In the translation text, the term Man translated as man because English does not distinguish the term man for rich or poor people. In the other hand, the translator also missed to capture the perspective of the character in choosing particular term when he translated Abang. The proportional meaning of Abang is addressing term to call elder brother but it could be used to call man or boy who is elder than the addressee. The translator translated Abangmu as your friend but from Nyai Ontosoroh's point of view, she used Abangmu to make Annelies felt comfort and consider Minke as her own son. Changing the term Abangmu as your friend would lead the reader to different understanding because it seems that Nyai Ontosoroh treat Minke as only her guest. The other factor except special concept of Dutch colonial and Javanese culture is the difference in grammatical system. Nababan (1999; 108) stated that grammatical equivalence focuses to the similar concept of source text and target text at the level of number, gender, person, tense, and aspect. In translating the addressing term, the problem appeared when source language and target language have different grammatical system. The term Nyai-Nyai became Nyais or Tuan-Tuan became Tuans is not equivalence because both term are Malay term. Malay and English apply different method to change the singular concept to be plural. The translator used free style translation and he missed to understand the language system of source text and target text because he translated Nyai-Nyai as Nyais and Tuan-Tuan as Tuans. Nyai and Tuan are not English term, so the plural form of Nyai and Tuan are not necessarily Nyais or Tuans because it is unclear whether Nyai and Tuan are countable or uncountable noun. Accountability concept is universal concept that can be understood by all people and can be expressed through lexical structure in all language, but not all languages have grammatical category for number and not all languages apply the same concept for number. Therefore, the translator should observe carefully whether one concept of a language could be applied to another language or not. The reader of the target text would feel unfamiliar because in some text, the translator used Nyai and Tuan for singular form, but after that those terms became Nyais and Tuans, whereas the reader could have another understanding rather than think that those terms are plural form because they never know the terms Nyais and Tuans before. Double Perspective in Translating Bumi Manusia Constructing the effective translation is one of the purposes of translation. Nababan (1999:88) stated that there are two main factors that determine the effectiveness of the translation. The first is dimension of linguistic and knowledge. Straight (as quoted in Nababan, 1999) said that fruitfulness in conveying the message depends on the knowledge about the context of culture and the language system of source language and target language. In this case, the translator failed to capture that addressing term play important role because it reflects etiquette culture of Javanese and Dutch colonial culture in Dutch East Indies. The second factor is purpose dimension. Nababan (1999, 87) stated that the translator should decide the purpose of the translation. Further, he explained that the purpose should meet this criteria; fruitful to the original, use translation style that appropriate to source text, use suitable equivalence, and the readability level of translation fitted to the source text. However, the analysis in the previous part show that the translation of addressing terms dealt with many equivalence problems and shared different function and connotation from the original that make the translation become unreadable and confusing for the reader. Both dimensions above can not be reached by the translator because he used more than one perspective in translating the addressing terms. Before translating a text, a translator had to analyze the source text to understand the content of the text. Then, the translator chose the approach that is suitable for source text. From the data in the table in 4.1 (see page 3), the writer found some addressing terms that have many equivalent problems. The translator may use more than one procedure in translating addressing terms because the procedure of translation is for sentences or smaller linguistics units as clause, phrase, word, etc. However, before determining the procedure, the translator should choose the perspective or method that he wants to apply in translating the source text. The method that the translator used will be a framework that guides the translator to translate the text in a line. The writer noticed that the translator used double perspectives that make his translation contradictory. In translating addressing terms such as Noni, Ndoro, Nyai, Tuan, Tuanmuda, Papa, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas, the translator used perspective that was focus on the original text. House (2009: 15) explained that a focus on the (original) texts mean analyzing it, and systematically linking its form and functions in order to reveal the original author's motivated choices. The translator considered the reason of the author in choosing addressing terms and tried to find out the closest equivalence in target text, even for some addressing terms do not have any equivalence that make the translator insisted to use the original term. In contrast, the translator also used perspective that focus on the process of interpretation. House (2009: 20) defined this perspective as the translator way to builds up an individual mental representation of its meaning. House added that the reconstitution of the 'the meaning' of a text to fit another language and context is not the central point. It is dealing more with the invention of the translator then discovery of what is already exist in a text. Therefore, when the translator used this perspective to translate some addressing terms such as Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai-Nyai, Tuan-Tuan, Nak, Abang, Man, etc the translation become very different from the context in source text. This perspective also leads the translator to make confusing translation because the translation for one term becomes inconsistent. Moreover some addressing terms have different meaning and connotation from the source text. In translating a text, translator should use only one perspective to make the synchronized translation. Double translation would lead the translator to different way in translating addressing term because one perspective deal with different point of view to another perspective. In Bumi Manusia case, it is much better for the translator to only apply the perspective that focus on the source text since the background of the original can not be easily transferred to target text. Moreover, if the translator was consistent to use one perspective, he would not make ambiguity translation. By understanding the whole context of the story that include ecology, technology, material culture, social organization, myth, and linguistic system of source text, the translator would have better perceptive to make good translation that fruitful to the original but it is still readable for the target reader. CONCLUSION This study is conducted to describe how the phenomenon of translating addressing terms is rolled out in BumiManusia and This Earth of Mankind. The conclusion of this study is formulated based on the statement of problems. Some translation theory based on several authors (House; 2009; Machali 2000; and Nababan; 1999): translation perspective, equivalence in translation, equivalence problem, and register categories of field, mode, and tenor are combined to the theory of addressing term (Wardaugh; 2006), pronouns of power and solidarity (Brown and Gilman; 1960) and lexical relation (Kreidler; 1998) to identify how the translator translated the addressing terms and the relation of the addressing terms toward the cultural context. Then, the writer comes to a conclusion that: The T and V approach also showed that power and solidarity become the main consideration for the characters in choosing addressing terms, so that the characters used different addressing terms depend on the status of the addressee and the relation among the characters. The translator used three patterns in translating addressing terms. In the first pattern, the translator used literal translation to translate Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ndoro, Meener, Papa, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Aku, Kowe, and Nak. In second pattern, the translator used original terms, Noni, Nyai, Ndoro, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas in the target text. The last pattern is changing the addressing terms such as Nyai-Nyai, Tuan, Sahaya, Abang, Man, and Meester since the adaptation of target text. From the patterns above, it was found that the translator was inconsistent to translate some addressing terms because he translated one term used some different procedure that make the meaning of the addressing terms contradictory. Also he did not pay attention to the culture and the context that involve in addressing terms so he only did linguistic translation without concerning to the cultural influences. The main factor that lead untranslatability of translating Bumi Manusia's addressing terms is special concept of Javanese culture and Dutch colonial system that make the addressing terms can not be easily transferred to target. The difference of grammatical system of source language and target language also lead the translator to get difficulties in finding suitable equivalence for the addressing terms. Therefore the translator used double perspective to solve the equivalence problems. As a result double perspective that was expected to solve the problem instead made a larger problem because the translation of addressing terms become untranslatability and unreadable. SUGGESTION Addressing terms is general phenomenon which occurs in daily life. But, the analysis of translating addressing terms is still rarely discussed whereas linguistics and its branches is basically concerning with the use of language. From this study, the future researchers are suggested to be more interested in enlarging their knowledge dealing with applied linguistics, especially translating addressing terms which concerns with how translating addressing terms based on cultural context. Equally important, it is suggested for the readers to pay attention in choosing addressing terms based on the condition and the status of the addressee because the wrong addressing terms choices will make the addressee feel insulted or annoyed REFERENCES Ananta Toer, Pramoedya. 2011. Bumi Manusia. Jakarta: Lentera Dipantara. Ananta Toer, Pramoedya. 1996. This Earth of Mankind. New York: Penguin books Ltd. Ashcroft, Bill and Griffiths, Gareth. 2002. The Empire Writes Back – Theory and practice in post-colonial literatures. New York and London: Routledge Taylor & Francis Group. Bogdan, Robert. C and Sari Knopp Biklen. 1982. Qualitative Research for Education: an Introduction to Theory and Methods.Allyn and Bacon. Inc. USA Brown, R., Gilman, A. 1960. The pronouns of Power and Solidarity. Thomas A. Sebeok, eds. Style in Language. Cambridge-Massachusetts: The Technology Press of Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 252-275. Geertz, Clifford. 1960. Linguistic Etiquette. Thomas A. Sebeok, eds. Style in Language. Cambridge-Massachusetts: The Technology Press of Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 282-295 Holmes, Janet. 1992. An Inroduction to Sociolinguistics. London and New York: Longman Group. Hornby, A. S. (Ed.) 1948. Advanced Learner's Dictionary (7th ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. House, Juliane. 2009. Translation. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Machali, R. .2000. Pedoman Bagi Penerjemah. Jakarta: Grasindo. Nababan, R. 1999. Teori Menerjemah Bahasa Inggris. Yogyakarta: PustakaPelajar Pramoedya Ananta Toer. Retrieved on June 25, 2013 from site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramoedya_Ananta_Toer Rothschild, Metthew. Interview with Pramoedya Ananta Toer. The Progressive Magazine. Retrieved on June 26, 2013 from site: http://www.progressive.org/mag_intv1099 Sugiyono. 2010. MetodePenelitianKuantitatif R & D. Bandung: Alfabeta. Wardhaugh, Ronald. 2006. An Introduction to Sociolinguistic.Oxford: Blackwell Publishing Widyastuti, Susana. Componential Analysis of Meaning: Theory and Applications. Online journal. Retrieved on June 25, 2013 from site: http://eprints.uny.ac.id/1174 W. Kreidler, Charles. 1998. Introducing English Semantic. London: Routledge.

AN ANALYSIS OF TRANSLATING THE ADDRESSING TERMS IN PRAMOEDYA ANANTA TOER'S THIS EARTH OF MANKIND Azimatul Fauziah English Literature, Faculty of Languages and Arts, State University of Surabaya azimatul13@gmail.com Dian Rivia Himmawati, SS, M.Hum. English Language and Literature Department, Faculty of Languages and Arts, State University of Surabaya dianrivia@gmail.com ABSTRAK Studi ini focus pada penerjemahan sapaan dalam Bumi Manusia sebagai bahasa sumber dan This Earth of Mankind sebagai bahasa sasaran. Penelitian ini bertujuan untuk mengetahui pengaruh dari kekuasaan dan solidaritas dalam penerjemahan sapaan dan mengetahui faktor yang menyebabkan ketakterjemahan dalam menerjemahkan sapaan. Metode deskriptif kualitatif, teori penerjemahan (House; 2009), hubungan antar kata , kata ganti orang yang memiliki kekuasaan dan solidaritas (Brown and Gilman; 1960), dan register kategori Halliday digunakan untuk menganalisa data. Hasil analisa menunjukan bahwa ada tiga macam sapaan di This Earth of Mankind, sapaan dalam bahasa Belanda, Melayu, dan Jawa. Beberapa sapaan dari bahasa yang berbeda memiliki makna yang sepadan dan penerjemah menerjemahkannya dengan istilah yang sama dengan menggunakan 'denotative equivalence' dan pragmatic equivalence. Penerjemah gagal memahami bahwa penulis membedakan sapaan untuk penjajah dan jajahan, keluarga bangsawan dan masyarakat umum, hubungan formal dan keakraban. Masalah penerjemahan sapaan terjadi ketika sapaan tersebut memiliki konsep khusus yang berhubungan dengan budaya tertentu namun tidak memiliki istilah padanan dalam bahasa sasaran dan karena sistem tatabahasa yang berbeda. Oleh karena itu, penerjemah menggunakan dua pandangan yang berbeda untuk menerjemahkan sapaan. pandangan yang pertama terpusat pada bahasa sumber sedangkan pandangan yang kedua terpusat pada proses penafsiran penerjemah. Hal tersebut membuat terjemahan menjadi sangat berbeda jika dilihat dari mode (cara), field (bidang), dan tenor (tujuan). Kata Kunci: penerjemahan, sapaan, padanan, budaya, kekuasaan ABSTRACT This study focuses on the translation of addressing term in Bumi Manusia as source text and This Earth of Mankind as target text. The purpose of this study is to find out the influence of power and solidarity in translating the addressing terms and find out the factors of untranslatability in translating addressing term. Descriptive qualitative method, translation theory (House; 2009), lexical relation (Kreidler; 1998), pronoun of power and solidarity (Brown and Gilman; 1960), and Hallidayan register categories are applied to analyze the data. The result show that there are three kinds of addressing terms in This Earth of Mankind, Dutch addressing term, Malay addressing term, and Javanese addressing term. Some addressing terms from different language have the same proportional meaning and the translator translated them as the same term and the translator used denotative equivalence and pragmatic equivalence. The translator failed to catch that the author differ the addressing term to show the difference between colonize and colonizer, aristocrat family and common people, intimacy relation and formal relation. The problem of translating addressing terms appeared when the special concept of addressing term related to particular culture do not have any equivalence term in target text and the different of grammatical system. Therefore, it makes the translator use double perspective in translating the addressing term. The first focuses on the source text while the other focus on the process of interpretation by the translator. It made the result of the translation become really different from the original seen from register categories: mode, field, and tenor. Keywords: translation, addressing term, equivalence, culture, dan power INTRODUCTION Bumi Manusia is one of the greatest works of Pramoedya Ananta Toer who was frequently discussed as Indonesia's and Southeast Asia's best candidate for a Nobel Prize in Literature. Terms of addressee plays important role in Bumi Manusia because it indicates the social status of someone. There are three kinds of addressing terms based on ethnicity in this novel. They are Dutch addressing term, Malay addressing term, and Javanese addressing term. Oyetade (as quoted in Chu-Cing Hsu; 2) defines terms of addresseeas words or linguistic expression which speakers use to designate the person being talked to while talk is in progress or which writers use to address the recipient in written communication. Moreover, Braun (1988:7) explains that the actual use and the function of addressing terms depands on the stucture of language, on the speaker's intention and on the address relationship between two interlocutors, as well as on the occasion of the occurrence. Juliane House (2009: 4) defined translation as a process of replacing a text in one language by text in another language. He also explained that translating is not only a linguistic act but it is also an act of communication across culture. Translating terms of addressee from Indonesian into English is not easy because they have different pronominal form. In translating addressing term, the translator should notice on the detail. Words can only be understood when it is considered together with the cultural context. So, in translating addressing term, it is not only replacing the word to another language but creating the same meaning and atmosphere as similar as the original text. Moreover, the addressing terms in Bumi Manusia are closely related to power. Braun and Gilman defined Power as ability to control behavior over another. They also said that power is a relationship between at least two persons, and it is nonreciprocal in the sense that both can not have the same power in the same area of behavior (1960: 254). People who have power will be addressed differently from common people. Power is associated with high social status and it reflects respect and honor. So, people from high social status will be addressed in polite way to show a great reverence. To translate a text as similar as the source text, it is needed to see whether the source text is equivalent to target text or not. House defined equivalence as how similarity of message or function is interpreted (2009: 29). There are many types of equivalence and it depends on the perspective that the translator used. It is possible to use denotative equivalence that use 'real world' referents to which the text relates. Also, the translator could use other equivalence such as pragmatic equivalence which focuses to fulfill its communicative function for the recipients. This study tries to discuss the factors of untranslatability in translating addressing term. There are two research questions for this study, (1) How does the translator translate the Indonesian addressing terms in Toer's Bumi Manusia into English version, This Earth of Mankind? (2) What is the influence of power and solidarity toward the choices of addressing terms in Toer's Bumi Manusia? This study tries to describe about the method of the translator in translating addressing term and know the influence of power and solidarity in translating the addressing term. This study only focuses on translating the addressing terms that have any equivalence problems in their translation and do not pay attention to grammar or another linguistic aspect. This study tries to describe about the process of young learner with visual learning style acquire language and know the relationships between personality and learning style. This study is not only focusing in linguistics but also covering learning activities and psychology area but it is not for learning strategy. Several theories are becoming main cores of this study, such as translation theory of House, lexical relation of Kreidler and Brown and Gilman in pronoun of power and solidarity. . RESEARCH METHOD This study uses descriptive-qualitative in getting and describing about the translating addressing terms phenomena in This Earth of Mankind. This study needs to be explained by words not by numbers or statistics, because this study is stressing on translation aspect and its relationship with culture. Bodgan and Biklen (1984:5) defined the qualitative approach as a research procedure which produces a descriptive data such as verbal or nonverbal utterances or words from the object being observed. The data for this study are utterances. There are two sources of data used in this study. Those data are Toer's Bumi Manusia as source text that was written by Pramoedya Ananta Toer and This Earth of Mankind as target text that was translated by Max Lane. Observation is used to analyze this research. Observation includes collection of the data that is needed by the researcher without manipulating. Sugiyono(2010, p. 146) adds that observation is done by the researcher about what the researcher wants to observe in the research. To observe this research, internet access and taking a note are needed by the researcher as the basic instrument. There were three steps to analyze the data. They were data reduction, data display and conclusion and verification. The researcher sorted the data by choosing the addressing terms that had problem with equivalence. Then, she displayed the data in table. Conclusion and verification became the last step of the data analysis process. In this case, the data had been displayed and discussed before were concluded. The conclusion was the answer of the problems existing supported by some theories related (Sugiyono, 2010, p. 345). To answer the first question, the researcher used lexical relation of Kreidler in his book introducing English semantic and translation theory by Machali. Then, in answering the research question number two, the researcher used pronoun of power and solidarity by Brown and Gilman, translation theory by Nababan and House, then collaborate with Hallidayan register categories of field, mode and tenor. ANNALYSIS AND DISCUSSION There are two analyses in this section. The first is the analysis of the method that was used by translator to translate addressing terms. The second is the analysis of relation between power and solidarity toward the addressing terms. In translating terms of addressees, the translator should find the equivalence between the source text and the target text. House (2009: 29) defines equivalence as a similar message and fulfills a similar function. The writer noticed that the translator use some different patterns. The first pattern, the translator tried to find out the literal or denotative equivalence which use 'real world' as referents for source text to target text. The second pattern, the translator used the original addressing terms from the source text and provided glossary for informing the meaning of the addressing terms in the end of the novel. The last, the translator changed the addressing terms to different addressing terms as the adaptation to the context of target language. After analyzing the method that was used by translator to translate addressing terms, the research used the following table to sum up the result: Table 1 The Comparison of Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia and This Earth of Mankind No Original Translation Procedure Problem 1. Juffrouw Miss Literal translation Different in context 2. Noni Miss Literal translation Different in context 3. Noni Noni Annotation Inconsistent 4. Mevrouw Mrs/Madam/ Ma'am Literal translation Different in context 5. Mevrouw Miss Free translation Different in meaning 6. Tuanmuda Young master Literal translation Different in context 7. Tuanmuda Master Literal translation Inconsistent 8. Tuan Sir/Mr. Literal translation Different in context 9. Tuan Tuan Annotation Inconsistent 10. Tuan You/he Free translation Different in function 11. Tuan-tuan Tuans Free translation Different in meaning 12. Ndoro Master Literal translation Different in context 13. Ndoro Ndoro Annotation Inconsistent 14. Sahaya I Literal translation Different in context 15. Sahaya Your servant Free translation Different in meaning 16. Meneer Mr. Literal translation Different in context 17. Papa Father Literal translation Different in context 18 Kowe You Literal translation Different in context 19. Nak Child Literal translation Different in context 20. Nyai Nyai Annotation - 21. Nyai-nyai Nyais Free translation Different in meaning 22. Gus Gus Annotation - 23. Sinyo Sinyo Annotation - 24. Mas Mas Annotation - 25. Abang Your friend Free translation Different in meaning 26. Man Man Free translation Different in context 27. Mr Mr. Free translation Different in meaning As shown from the table above, Malay dominated the addressing terms because Malay is neutral language that can be used by Javanese and Dutch in their daily conversations. Noni, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Nak, Sinyo, and Abang are addressing terms that belong to Malay addressing terms. These terms are more common because Malay is widely used in all Dutch East Indies. In the other hand, there were some Javanese addressing terms such as Nyai, Ndoro, Kowe, Gus, Mas, and Man that were used in particular occasions or refer to particular people. Similar to Javanese addressing terms, Dutch addressing terms are only used for certain people. Juffrouw, Mevrouw, Meneer, and Meester are Ducth addressing terms that only used to call Dutch people. There are three patterns in translating addressing terms. In the first pattern, the translator used denotative equivalence which only focused on the meaning of the terms. Machali (2000) stated that as a method, literal translation considers as the most important translation procedure because the basic of literal translation is in clause or sentence level. However, translating addressing terms include and reflect the culture of the society because the addressing terms that were used by the characters determine their background whether their status or ethnicity. Even the words in source text have the same denotation with target text, they do not always have the same connotation. The translator used two different procedures in translating the addressing terms for the first pattern. The first procedure is lexical translation which is used to translate Tuanmuda, Tuan, Papa, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Aku, Kowe, and Nak. Some of the terms are not appropriate because there is the difference of interpersonal perspective. The second procedure is adaptation. The translator attempted to make the addressing terms familiar in target text. The terms Juffrouw, Mevrouw, Meneer, Ndoro, and Noni are special concepts that were used in Dutch colonial era. The translation text could be understood by the reader of the target text, but the reader can not catch the essence that those terms are particular addressing terms for certain groups. So, even the words of source text have denotative equivalence in target text, but they are not suitable for the context of source text. In the second pattern, the translator did not change the addressing terms because the terms, Noni, Nyai, Ndoro, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas are special concept of source text that do not have any equivalence word in target text. The translator used annotation to translate because he persisted to use the original terms and gave glossary to explain the meaning of the term. The writer noticed that the translator is understand that the addressing terms have important role to distinguish the identity of the characters, but he only highlighted Javanese addressing terms. The concept of thing in Dutch and English are almost similar because they are in the same language family. So, the translator was easy to find out the lexical equivalence from Ducth terms to English terms. However, the concept of some words such as Noni, Sinyo, and Nyai are especially used in colonial era, so it is difficult to find out the equivalence in target text. Ndoro, Gus, and Mas are terms from Javanese culture who really emphasis in status and familiarity while English only differ for formal or informal situation. Unfortunately, the translator used inconsistent translation procedures for one term. For instance, the term Noni is translated as Miss by using lexical translation and the translator also used annotation in other text so that he did not change the addressing terms. These conditions would make the reader confuse and would make wrong interpretation that Miss and Noni are different. The last pattern showed that the translator change the form of the addressing terms. The translator used free style translation. The translator missed to understand the language system of source text and target text because he translated Nyai-Nyai as Nyais and Tuan-Tuan as Tuans. Nyai and Tuan are not English term, so the plural form of Nyai and Tuan are not necessarily Nyais or Tuans because it is unclear whether Nyai and Tuan are countable or uncountable noun. Accountability concept is universal concept that can be understood by all people and can be expressed through lexical structure in all language, but not all languages have grammatical category for number and not all languages apply the same concept for number. The second analysis is relation between power and solidarity toward the addressing using T and V because in previous part, there are many translations of addressing term that are not appropriate to the context of the novel. The ways of people in choosing the addressing terms are really related to the culture that exist in their society. The culture of society consists of everything that everybody has to know or believe in order to operate manner that acceptable for its member. In Javanese society, especially in the past, the kingdom applied feudal system. This system force lower class people to respect much to people who have more power. Gilman (1960; 252) defined Power as a relationship between at least two persons and it is nonreciprocal because both can not have the same authority. There are many forms of power such as physical strength, wealth, age, sex, institutionalized role in the state, the army, or within the family. The relations called older than, richer than, stronger than, employer of, richer than and nobler then are all asymmetrical. If A is older than B, B is not older than A. The relation called "more powerful than". The pronoun usage expressing this power relation is also asymmetrical or nonreciprocal, with the greater receiving V and the lesser T. Pronoun form of T and V were used by some European countries to differ between 'singular you' tu (T) and 'plural you' vos (V). Now, T and V are used as symbols; the T form is often described as the familiar form and the V form as the polite one. The superior will say T to the inferior and receives V, and vice versa. T and V approach also could be used to indicate solidarity. The T form is usually used by people who stand in the same position. It reflects symmetrical relation; for instance: attended the same school or have the same parents or practice in the same profession. The T of solidarity can be produced by frequency of contact as well as by objective similarities. The dimension of solidarity is potentially appropriate to all persons addressed. Power superiors may be solidarity (parents, elder siblings) or not solidarity (officials whom one seldom sees). Reciprocal T usage was always available to show intimacy. The following part would discuss the power of characters and its influence among the other characters and the writer used T and V form to analyze them. To sum up the relation of power and solidarity through the addressing term that were chosen by the characters in Bumi Manusia, the writer summarized them into a table. The table would illustrate the addressing terms, the interlocutors, the relation between interlocutors, and the function of the addressing terms. Table 2 The T and V form of Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia No Addressing Term Interlocutor Relation Function 1 Juffrouw Java – Dutch Dutch- Indo nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 2 Noni Java – Indo nonreciprocal Respecting 3 Mevrouw Java – Dutch Dutch -Dutch Indo – Indo nonreciprocal reciprocal reciprocal Respecting showing intimacy respecting 4 Nyai Java – Java Dutch - Java reciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 5 Tuanmuda Dutch – Java Java - Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 6 Tuan Java - Java Java – Dutch nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 7 Ndoro Java – Dutch Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 8 Meneer Java – Dutch nonreciprocal Respecting 9 Mama Ann – Nyai Minke – Nyai nonreciprocal nonreciprocal showing intimacy showing intimacy 10 Papa Indo – western nonreciprocal showing intimacy 11 Aku Java - Java Java – Dutch reciprocal nonreciprocal showing intimacy showing intimacy 12 Sahaya Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 13 Kowe Dutch – Java nonreciprocal Disrespecting 14 Nak Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 15 Gus Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 16 Sinyo Java –Indo Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 17 Abang Indo - Indo Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting showing intimacy 18 Mas Indo – Java reciprocal showing intimacy 19 Man Dutch – Java nonreciprocal Disrespecting 20 Mr (Meester) Java – Dutch nonreciprocal Respecting The table above shows that there are three functions of addressing terms, respecting, disrespecting, and showing intimacy. From the data above, the relations of the interlocutors are mostly nonreciprocal, so it shows that social status is very important in colonial era because the nonreciprocal relations illustrate the difference power between addressor and addressee. In many nonreciprocal cases, the higher social status will get V form from the addressors to show their respect and say T form because they are not stand in the same position as the addressee. Except respecting, nonreciprocal relation is also used to show disrespect. The addressing terms that are used to disregard are especially designed for lower class by upper class or have bad connotation. In contrast, to show intimacy, the relations of the interlocutors are sometimes reciprocal or nonreciprocal. The dimension of solidarity is little bit different from power, because even the interlocutors are not stand in the same position they can use intimate addressing terms because their relations are close. DISCUSSION After analyzing the translation of addressing terms from the source text to target text, now the writer discusses the result of the analysis. Comparison of Original and Translation The research compares the field, tenor, and mode of Bumi Manusia and This Earth of Mankind. The concept of field, tenor, and mode are sociolinguistic dimensions of context of situation jointly characterizing a particular register. House (2009; 33) stated that the original and its translation should have an equivalent function whenever possible. He also said that text and context of situation are indeed separated, but the two interact with each other through inextricable connection between the social environment and the functional organization of language. Before analyzing the register, it is needed to analyze the genre first. House (2009; 35) explained that genre connect an individual text with the larger cultural context of the linguistic and cultural community in which the text is embedded. The genre of Bumi Manusia is historical fiction but it is based on the reality. It included to historical story because the setting illustrated the situation of Indonesia in the late of nineteenth century. The author used particular time and places that make the story as if it was real. The story happened in 1890's, when the national movement had been begun by native to fight against colonizer through non-violence way. Field The first dimension of register is field. Holmes (2009; 34) explained that field captures the subject matter or topic. It describes what the text is about and what kinds of thing are in text. The text was about Minke's life. It describe Minke's journey who is a naïve boy at first to be a mature person. In that process, Minke should face many problems dealing not only with himself but also his society and the colonizer. The complexities of Minke's problem include the conflict of social judgments, hierarchy system, and racial conflict. The description of this story is not so much as historical text but an attractive, easily readable story. Evidence for this is the use of Malay language in telling the story rather than Javanese or Dutch. Malay was language of interracial communication which was used by many people weather Native or Eurasian. However, there were many terms that are not Malay, but they were only used as addressing term. The choice of particular addressing term in Bumi Manusia shows the style of speaking and the purpose of the speaker, indeed the social status. Mevrouw, Juffrouw, Meester, and Meneer are some addressing terms that were borrowed from Dutch language, while Mas, Ndoro, Gus, Mas and Man are some addressing terms that were borrowed from Javanese language. The used of various addressing terms has function as the mark of power and solidarity. As seen in table 4.1.3 (see page 102) there are three functions of addressing terms, respecting, disrespecting, and showing intimacy. From that data, the relations of the interlocutors are mostly nonreciprocal, so it shows that social status is very important in colonial era because the nonreciprocal relations illustrate the difference power between addressor and addressee. The feudal and colonial system forced people to respect everyone who have more power. Geertz (1960: 282) explained that it is nearly impossible for language that applied etiquette system to say anything without indicating the social relationship between the speaker and the listener in terms of status and familiarity. In many nonreciprocal cases, the higher social status will get V form from the addressors to show their respect and say T form because they are not stand in the same position as the addressee. Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ndoro, Menner, Sahaya, Sinyo, Abang, and Meester are addressing terms to show respect. The translation appears to be generally and decrease its local color because the absence of Dutch addressing terms as the marker of Dutch colonial. Even the translation of Dutch addressing terms have the same function to respect the addressee, the translation can not replace the emotion and the feeling of the original. Except respecting, nonreciprocal relation is also used to show disrespect. The addressing terms that are used to disregard are especially designed for lower class by upper class or have bad connotation. For instance, Kowe is addressing term that was used by Dutch people to express disrespect toward Javanese. The translation of Kowe, you, can not express the same function as the original because this term is neutral addressing term. In contrast, to show intimacy, the relations of the interlocutors are sometimes reciprocal or nonreciprocal. The dimension of solidarity is little bit different from power. Even the interlocutors were not stand in the same position they can use intimate addressing terms because their relations are close. In Bumi Manusia, the relations of the people who used intimate addressing terms such as Mama, Papa, Gus, Abang, and Nak were nonreciprocal. Gus, Abang and Nak were used by older people to younger people. In Javanese, age is one of the main distinctions of nonreciprocal relation. The older people do not need to use polite form, but in this case Gus, Abang and Nak are polite addressing term that indicated close relationship between older and younger people. The translation of Abang (your friend) and Nak (child) can not full fill the same function as the intimate sign like the original did. Tenor House (2009; 34) stated that tenor refers to the nature of the participants, the author and his or her addressee, the relationship between them in terms of social power and familiarity, the author's intellectual and affective position, that is, his or her personal viewpoint. The author was an Indonesian author of novels, short stories, essays, polemic and histories of his homeland and its people. The author seemed to be very aware of the conditions of his story. He attempted to create colonial atmosphere as same as the reality. The choice of the addressing terms included Dutch, Malay, and Javanese was the evident. By differing the addressing terms based on the ethnicity and social status, the author would like to inform the reader the 'reality' in the past. He wanted to show that there were social distance between poor and rich, also Javanese as the colony and Dutch as the colonizer. He persisted to use Dutch addressing terms rather than change it into Malay to create colonial atmosphere because at that time Dutch people make their language as exclusive language. The translator also tried to create colonial atmosphere by using Java and Malay addressing term that do not have equivalent in English. However, instead of using Dutch term as the author did, the translator change the addressing terms into English. Dutch and English are still in the same language family, so there are many terms of English and Dutch that have the same meaning. Mevrouw, Juffrouw, Meneer, and Meester are Dutch terms. Except Meester, they are denotatively equivalent. Mevrouw could be translated as Mrs, Juffrouw as Miss, and Meneer as Mr. They have the same referents in the real world, so it makes them denotatively equivalents. Although, the translator failed to capture that Dutch addressing term has special function as imperial impression. Ashcroft (2002; 7) stated that one of main features of imperial oppression is control over language. Dutch people, at that time, not only controlled for social, politic, and economic aspects but also controlled the language. They limit the used of their language for themselves and their offspring to marginalize their colonies. The translator did not catch the author's aim that he wanted to show the great distance between Dutch and Javanese people. Instead of giving the Dutch colonial atmosphere, the translator gave mental image of British colonialism because the special terms that implicate Dutch colonialism had been translated in English terms. Based on the table in 4.1 (see page 3), most addressing term translation dealt with cultural context. This problem arose because the translation and the original can not make the same psychological understanding for the readers. In addition, the translator used inconsistent term in his translations that primarily make the reader confused. Mode House (2009; 34) defined Mode as a channel of communication. Equivalence in dimension of mode relates to the means whereby the communication is performed. In Bumi Manusia, there were some addressing terms that have different meaning than the lexical meaning because of the feeling of the speaker. Kowe actually is common addressing terms in Javanese society to address someone who is younger or have closed relation, but when it is used by Dutch people the function is changed from showing intimacy become disrespecting. When the Dutch people used Kowe in Bumi Manusia novel, the character always used it in high tension. However, the reader will not catch that Kowe has negative connotation directly because the translation term, you, is neutral addressing terms. The communication purpose of the term Kowe cannot easily catch. So, the irritation of the character could not be understood by the reader. As seen from the mode, field, and tenor analyses above, it show that the original and the translation are not equivalence. The genre of the translation in translating addressing term is not so much as the original because some translation of the addressing terms can not reveal the atmosphere of Dutch colonial that become the main point in this equivalence problem. Equivalence Problem in Translating Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia The analysis of register categories above clearly showed that the original and translation are not equal. Equivalence of source text and target has limited area because not all of the equivalence approaches can achieved all translation cases. The main factor that made the addressing in source text do not have suitable equivalence in target text is the special concept of Dutch colonial and Javanese culture. Nababan (1999: 99) said that the concept of source text can reveal a concept that is not well known in the target text. Some addressing terms from source text that has special concept are difficult to have their equivalence in target text because of the cultural concept of addressing term from Dutch and Javanese like Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai, Ndoro, Meneer, Gus, Sinyo, Mas, Man, and Meester. Those terms can not easily be transferred to target text because those terms are created by certain condition in particular communities. Some of those terms, Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Ndoro, and Meneer have the same denotation with the translation term, but the original and translation addressing term have different connotation that make them share different interpretation. The special concept that can not be replaced in target text lead to others related problem. The special concept of particular culture make the language concept of source text is not available in target text. Nababan (1999: 99) explained that the words of source text could be understand and recognized in target text but the target text does not have a term that can reveal the concept from source text. In this case, the term Sahaya and Kowe in source text have different concept from Aku and Kau. The target text do not differ the first and second singular pronoun that make the translation of Sahaya and Kowe have different function from source text. Even the concept of Sahaya and Kowe could be understand in the target text, but the term that have the same meaning and connotation with those term are not available. So, the translator used 'I' and 'you' in a pinch to replace Sahaya and Kowe even 'I' and 'you' also used to translate Aku and Kau. The complexities of Javanese community that apply speech level also direct the translation to the equivalence problem because it makes difference of interpersonal perspective. Nababan (1999: 03) argued that interpersonal perspective is related to the relation of the participants in a text. In a language that really concern to etiquette like Javanese, Geertz stated that it is impossible to address someone without pay attention to the status of the addressee. Etiquette system force the people to create different term for one concept, so the participant can easily choose the right term to address someone that suitable for both the addressor and the addressee. For instance, in Bumi Manusia there are three different addressing terms to call male parent, Papa, Ayah and Ayahanda. The use of those addressing term could reflect the social status of the addressor and the addressee. Papa is used in western family who live Dutch East Indies, Ayah is used in middle-low family, while Ayahanda is used in Javanese aristocrat family. This difference of Papa, Ayah and Ayahanda can not be seen in the translation because the translator translated them as 'father'. The other problem of equivalence that appears because of the particular culture of the two languages is the difference of expressive meaning. According to Nababan (1999: 103) the words in source text and target text have the same proportional meaning but often they are different in expressive meaning. There are many addressing terms that have the same proportional meaning but they are different in expressive meaning because Malay terms differentiate the addressing terms based on the relationship and the social status. The term Nak has the same proportional meaning with child, but they are used in different intention. Nak is for showing intimacy but child dispose to create formal atmosphere rather than familiarity. Both terms have the same proportional meaning but they express different purpose and connotation. The different perspective toward a concept will also lead the translation to equivalence problem (Nababan, 1999: 101). Furthermore, it is also the effect of special concept in source text. The term Man in Javanese context at that time was used to address Javanese adult male from middle-low status. In the translation text, the term Man translated as man because English does not distinguish the term man for rich or poor people. In the other hand, the translator also missed to capture the perspective of the character in choosing particular term when he translated Abang. The proportional meaning of Abang is addressing term to call elder brother but it could be used to call man or boy who is elder than the addressee. The translator translated Abangmu as your friend but from Nyai Ontosoroh's point of view, she used Abangmu to make Annelies felt comfort and consider Minke as her own son. Changing the term Abangmu as your friend would lead the reader to different understanding because it seems that Nyai Ontosoroh treat Minke as only her guest. The other factor except special concept of Dutch colonial and Javanese culture is the difference in grammatical system. Nababan (1999; 108) stated that grammatical equivalence focuses to the similar concept of source text and target text at the level of number, gender, person, tense, and aspect. In translating the addressing term, the problem appeared when source language and target language have different grammatical system. The term Nyai-Nyai became Nyais or Tuan-Tuan became Tuans is not equivalence because both term are Malay term. Malay and English apply different method to change the singular concept to be plural. The translator used free style translation and he missed to understand the language system of source text and target text because he translated Nyai-Nyai as Nyais and Tuan-Tuan as Tuans. Nyai and Tuan are not English term, so the plural form of Nyai and Tuan are not necessarily Nyais or Tuans because it is unclear whether Nyai and Tuan are countable or uncountable noun. Accountability concept is universal concept that can be understood by all people and can be expressed through lexical structure in all language, but not all languages have grammatical category for number and not all languages apply the same concept for number. Therefore, the translator should observe carefully whether one concept of a language could be applied to another language or not. The reader of the target text would feel unfamiliar because in some text, the translator used Nyai and Tuan for singular form, but after that those terms became Nyais and Tuans, whereas the reader could have another understanding rather than think that those terms are plural form because they never know the terms Nyais and Tuans before. Double Perspective in Translating Bumi Manusia Constructing the effective translation is one of the purposes of translation. Nababan (1999:88) stated that there are two main factors that determine the effectiveness of the translation. The first is dimension of linguistic and knowledge. Straight (as quoted in Nababan, 1999) said that fruitfulness in conveying the message depends on the knowledge about the context of culture and the language system of source language and target language. In this case, the translator failed to capture that addressing term play important role because it reflects etiquette culture of Javanese and Dutch colonial culture in Dutch East Indies. The second factor is purpose dimension. Nababan (1999, 87) stated that the translator should decide the purpose of the translation. Further, he explained that the purpose should meet this criteria; fruitful to the original, use translation style that appropriate to source text, use suitable equivalence, and the readability level of translation fitted to the source text. However, the analysis in the previous part show that the translation of addressing terms dealt with many equivalence problems and shared different function and connotation from the original that make the translation become unreadable and confusing for the reader. Both dimensions above can not be reached by the translator because he used more than one perspective in translating the addressing terms. Before translating a text, a translator had to analyze the source text to understand the content of the text. Then, the translator chose the approach that is suitable for source text. From the data in the table in 4.1 (see page 3), the writer found some addressing terms that have many equivalent problems. The translator may use more than one procedure in translating addressing terms because the procedure of translation is for sentences or smaller linguistics units as clause, phrase, word, etc. However, before determining the procedure, the translator should choose the perspective or method that he wants to apply in translating the source text. The method that the translator used will be a framework that guides the translator to translate the text in a line. The writer noticed that the translator used double perspectives that make his translation contradictory. In translating addressing terms such as Noni, Ndoro, Nyai, Tuan, Tuanmuda, Papa, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas, the translator used perspective that was focus on the original text. House (2009: 15) explained that a focus on the (original) texts mean analyzing it, and systematically linking its form and functions in order to reveal the original author's motivated choices. The translator considered the reason of the author in choosing addressing terms and tried to find out the closest equivalence in target text, even for some addressing terms do not have any equivalence that make the translator insisted to use the original term. In contrast, the translator also used perspective that focus on the process of interpretation. House (2009: 20) defined this perspective as the translator way to builds up an individual mental representation of its meaning. House added that the reconstitution of the 'the meaning' of a text to fit another language and context is not the central point. It is dealing more with the invention of the translator then discovery of what is already exist in a text. Therefore, when the translator used this perspective to translate some addressing terms such as Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai-Nyai, Tuan-Tuan, Nak, Abang, Man, etc the translation become very different from the context in source text. This perspective also leads the translator to make confusing translation because the translation for one term becomes inconsistent. Moreover some addressing terms have different meaning and connotation from the source text. In translating a text, translator should use only one perspective to make the synchronized translation. Double translation would lead the translator to different way in translating addressing term because one perspective deal with different point of view to another perspective. In Bumi Manusia case, it is much better for the translator to only apply the perspective that focus on the source text since the background of the original can not be easily transferred to target text. Moreover, if the translator was consistent to use one perspective, he would not make ambiguity translation. By understanding the whole context of the story that include ecology, technology, material culture, social organization, myth, and linguistic system of source text, the translator would have better perceptive to make good translation that fruitful to the original but it is still readable for the target reader. CONCLUSION This study is conducted to describe how the phenomenon of translating addressing terms is rolled out in BumiManusia and This Earth of Mankind. The conclusion of this study is formulated based on the statement of problems. Some translation theory based on several authors (House; 2009; Machali 2000; and Nababan; 1999): translation perspective, equivalence in translation, equivalence problem, and register categories of field, mode, and tenor are combined to the theory of addressing term (Wardaugh; 2006), pronouns of power and solidarity (Brown and Gilman; 1960) and lexical relation (Kreidler; 1998) to identify how the translator translated the addressing terms and the relation of the addressing terms toward the cultural context. Then, the writer comes to a conclusion that: The T and V approach also showed that power and solidarity become the main consideration for the characters in choosing addressing terms, so that the characters used different addressing terms depend on the status of the addressee and the relation among the characters. The translator used three patterns in translating addressing terms. In the first pattern, the translator used literal translation to translate Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ndoro, Meener, Papa, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Aku, Kowe, and Nak. In second pattern, the translator used original terms, Noni, Nyai, Ndoro, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas in the target text. The last pattern is changing the addressing terms such as Nyai-Nyai, Tuan, Sahaya, Abang, Man, and Meester since the adaptation of target text. From the patterns above, it was found that the translator was inconsistent to translate some addressing terms because he translated one term used some different procedure that make the meaning of the addressing terms contradictory. Also he did not pay attention to the culture and the context that involve in addressing terms so he only did linguistic translation without concerning to the cultural influences. The main factor that lead untranslatability of translating Bumi Manusia's addressing terms is special concept of Javanese culture and Dutch colonial system that make the addressing terms can not be easily transferred to target. The difference of grammatical system of source language and target language also lead the translator to get difficulties in finding suitable equivalence for the addressing terms. Therefore the translator used double perspective to solve the equivalence problems. As a result double perspective that was expected to solve the problem instead made a larger problem because the translation of addressing terms become untranslatability and unreadable. SUGGESTION Addressing terms is general phenomenon which occurs in daily life. But, the analysis of translating addressing terms is still rarely discussed whereas linguistics and its branches is basically concerning with the use of language. From this study, the future researchers are suggested to be more interested in enlarging their knowledge dealing with applied linguistics, especially translating addressing terms which concerns with how translating addressing terms based on cultural context. Equally important, it is suggested for the readers to pay attention in choosing addressing terms based on the condition and the status of the addressee because the wrong addressing terms choices will make the addressee feel insulted or annoyed REFERENCES Ananta Toer, Pramoedya. 2011. Bumi Manusia. Jakarta: Lentera Dipantara. Ananta Toer, Pramoedya. 1996. This Earth of Mankind. New York: Penguin books Ltd. Ashcroft, Bill and Griffiths, Gareth. 2002. The Empire Writes Back – Theory and practice in post-colonial literatures. New York and London: Routledge Taylor & Francis Group. Bogdan, Robert. C and Sari Knopp Biklen. 1982. Qualitative Research for Education: an Introduction to Theory and Methods.Allyn and Bacon. Inc. 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AN ANALYSIS OF TRANSLATING THE ADDRESSING TERMS IN PRAMOEDYA ANANTA TOER'S THIS EARTH OF MANKIND Azimatul Fauziah English Literature, Faculty of Languages and Arts, State University of Surabaya azimatul13@gmail.com Dian Rivia Himmawati, SS, M.Hum. English Language and Literature Department, Faculty of Languages and Arts, State University of Surabaya dianrivia@gmail.com ABSTRAK Studi ini focus pada penerjemahan sapaan dalam Bumi Manusia sebagai bahasa sumber dan This Earth of Mankind sebagai bahasa sasaran. Penelitian ini bertujuan untuk mengetahui pengaruh dari kekuasaan dan solidaritas dalam penerjemahan sapaan dan mengetahui faktor yang menyebabkan ketakterjemahan dalam menerjemahkan sapaan. Metode deskriptif kualitatif, teori penerjemahan (House; 2009), hubungan antar kata , kata ganti orang yang memiliki kekuasaan dan solidaritas (Brown and Gilman; 1960), dan register kategori Halliday digunakan untuk menganalisa data. Hasil analisa menunjukan bahwa ada tiga macam sapaan di This Earth of Mankind, sapaan dalam bahasa Belanda, Melayu, dan Jawa. Beberapa sapaan dari bahasa yang berbeda memiliki makna yang sepadan dan penerjemah menerjemahkannya dengan istilah yang sama dengan menggunakan 'denotative equivalence' dan pragmatic equivalence. Penerjemah gagal memahami bahwa penulis membedakan sapaan untuk penjajah dan jajahan, keluarga bangsawan dan masyarakat umum, hubungan formal dan keakraban. Masalah penerjemahan sapaan terjadi ketika sapaan tersebut memiliki konsep khusus yang berhubungan dengan budaya tertentu namun tidak memiliki istilah padanan dalam bahasa sasaran dan karena sistem tatabahasa yang berbeda. Oleh karena itu, penerjemah menggunakan dua pandangan yang berbeda untuk menerjemahkan sapaan. pandangan yang pertama terpusat pada bahasa sumber sedangkan pandangan yang kedua terpusat pada proses penafsiran penerjemah. Hal tersebut membuat terjemahan menjadi sangat berbeda jika dilihat dari mode (cara), field (bidang), dan tenor (tujuan). Kata Kunci: penerjemahan, sapaan, padanan, budaya, kekuasaan ABSTRACT This study focuses on the translation of addressing term in Bumi Manusia as source text and This Earth of Mankind as target text. The purpose of this study is to find out the influence of power and solidarity in translating the addressing terms and find out the factors of untranslatability in translating addressing term. Descriptive qualitative method, translation theory (House; 2009), lexical relation (Kreidler; 1998), pronoun of power and solidarity (Brown and Gilman; 1960), and Hallidayan register categories are applied to analyze the data. The result show that there are three kinds of addressing terms in This Earth of Mankind, Dutch addressing term, Malay addressing term, and Javanese addressing term. Some addressing terms from different language have the same proportional meaning and the translator translated them as the same term and the translator used denotative equivalence and pragmatic equivalence. The translator failed to catch that the author differ the addressing term to show the difference between colonize and colonizer, aristocrat family and common people, intimacy relation and formal relation. The problem of translating addressing terms appeared when the special concept of addressing term related to particular culture do not have any equivalence term in target text and the different of grammatical system. Therefore, it makes the translator use double perspective in translating the addressing term. The first focuses on the source text while the other focus on the process of interpretation by the translator. It made the result of the translation become really different from the original seen from register categories: mode, field, and tenor. Keywords: translation, addressing term, equivalence, culture, dan power INTRODUCTION Bumi Manusia is one of the greatest works of Pramoedya Ananta Toer who was frequently discussed as Indonesia's and Southeast Asia's best candidate for a Nobel Prize in Literature. Terms of addressee plays important role in Bumi Manusia because it indicates the social status of someone. There are three kinds of addressing terms based on ethnicity in this novel. They are Dutch addressing term, Malay addressing term, and Javanese addressing term. Oyetade (as quoted in Chu-Cing Hsu; 2) defines terms of addresseeas words or linguistic expression which speakers use to designate the person being talked to while talk is in progress or which writers use to address the recipient in written communication. Moreover, Braun (1988:7) explains that the actual use and the function of addressing terms depands on the stucture of language, on the speaker's intention and on the address relationship between two interlocutors, as well as on the occasion of the occurrence. Juliane House (2009: 4) defined translation as a process of replacing a text in one language by text in another language. He also explained that translating is not only a linguistic act but it is also an act of communication across culture. Translating terms of addressee from Indonesian into English is not easy because they have different pronominal form. In translating addressing term, the translator should notice on the detail. Words can only be understood when it is considered together with the cultural context. So, in translating addressing term, it is not only replacing the word to another language but creating the same meaning and atmosphere as similar as the original text. Moreover, the addressing terms in Bumi Manusia are closely related to power. Braun and Gilman defined Power as ability to control behavior over another. They also said that power is a relationship between at least two persons, and it is nonreciprocal in the sense that both can not have the same power in the same area of behavior (1960: 254). People who have power will be addressed differently from common people. Power is associated with high social status and it reflects respect and honor. So, people from high social status will be addressed in polite way to show a great reverence. To translate a text as similar as the source text, it is needed to see whether the source text is equivalent to target text or not. House defined equivalence as how similarity of message or function is interpreted (2009: 29). There are many types of equivalence and it depends on the perspective that the translator used. It is possible to use denotative equivalence that use 'real world' referents to which the text relates. Also, the translator could use other equivalence such as pragmatic equivalence which focuses to fulfill its communicative function for the recipients. This study tries to discuss the factors of untranslatability in translating addressing term. There are two research questions for this study, (1) How does the translator translate the Indonesian addressing terms in Toer's Bumi Manusia into English version, This Earth of Mankind? (2) What is the influence of power and solidarity toward the choices of addressing terms in Toer's Bumi Manusia? This study tries to describe about the method of the translator in translating addressing term and know the influence of power and solidarity in translating the addressing term. This study only focuses on translating the addressing terms that have any equivalence problems in their translation and do not pay attention to grammar or another linguistic aspect. This study tries to describe about the process of young learner with visual learning style acquire language and know the relationships between personality and learning style. This study is not only focusing in linguistics but also covering learning activities and psychology area but it is not for learning strategy. Several theories are becoming main cores of this study, such as translation theory of House, lexical relation of Kreidler and Brown and Gilman in pronoun of power and solidarity. . RESEARCH METHOD This study uses descriptive-qualitative in getting and describing about the translating addressing terms phenomena in This Earth of Mankind. This study needs to be explained by words not by numbers or statistics, because this study is stressing on translation aspect and its relationship with culture. Bodgan and Biklen (1984:5) defined the qualitative approach as a research procedure which produces a descriptive data such as verbal or nonverbal utterances or words from the object being observed. The data for this study are utterances. There are two sources of data used in this study. Those data are Toer's Bumi Manusia as source text that was written by Pramoedya Ananta Toer and This Earth of Mankind as target text that was translated by Max Lane. Observation is used to analyze this research. Observation includes collection of the data that is needed by the researcher without manipulating. Sugiyono(2010, p. 146) adds that observation is done by the researcher about what the researcher wants to observe in the research. To observe this research, internet access and taking a note are needed by the researcher as the basic instrument. There were three steps to analyze the data. They were data reduction, data display and conclusion and verification. The researcher sorted the data by choosing the addressing terms that had problem with equivalence. Then, she displayed the data in table. Conclusion and verification became the last step of the data analysis process. In this case, the data had been displayed and discussed before were concluded. The conclusion was the answer of the problems existing supported by some theories related (Sugiyono, 2010, p. 345). To answer the first question, the researcher used lexical relation of Kreidler in his book introducing English semantic and translation theory by Machali. Then, in answering the research question number two, the researcher used pronoun of power and solidarity by Brown and Gilman, translation theory by Nababan and House, then collaborate with Hallidayan register categories of field, mode and tenor. ANNALYSIS AND DISCUSSION There are two analyses in this section. The first is the analysis of the method that was used by translator to translate addressing terms. The second is the analysis of relation between power and solidarity toward the addressing terms. In translating terms of addressees, the translator should find the equivalence between the source text and the target text. House (2009: 29) defines equivalence as a similar message and fulfills a similar function. The writer noticed that the translator use some different patterns. The first pattern, the translator tried to find out the literal or denotative equivalence which use 'real world' as referents for source text to target text. The second pattern, the translator used the original addressing terms from the source text and provided glossary for informing the meaning of the addressing terms in the end of the novel. The last, the translator changed the addressing terms to different addressing terms as the adaptation to the context of target language. After analyzing the method that was used by translator to translate addressing terms, the research used the following table to sum up the result: Table 1 The Comparison of Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia and This Earth of Mankind No Original Translation Procedure Problem 1. Juffrouw Miss Literal translation Different in context 2. Noni Miss Literal translation Different in context 3. Noni Noni Annotation Inconsistent 4. Mevrouw Mrs/Madam/ Ma'am Literal translation Different in context 5. Mevrouw Miss Free translation Different in meaning 6. Tuanmuda Young master Literal translation Different in context 7. Tuanmuda Master Literal translation Inconsistent 8. Tuan Sir/Mr. Literal translation Different in context 9. Tuan Tuan Annotation Inconsistent 10. Tuan You/he Free translation Different in function 11. Tuan-tuan Tuans Free translation Different in meaning 12. Ndoro Master Literal translation Different in context 13. Ndoro Ndoro Annotation Inconsistent 14. Sahaya I Literal translation Different in context 15. Sahaya Your servant Free translation Different in meaning 16. Meneer Mr. Literal translation Different in context 17. Papa Father Literal translation Different in context 18 Kowe You Literal translation Different in context 19. Nak Child Literal translation Different in context 20. Nyai Nyai Annotation - 21. Nyai-nyai Nyais Free translation Different in meaning 22. Gus Gus Annotation - 23. Sinyo Sinyo Annotation - 24. Mas Mas Annotation - 25. Abang Your friend Free translation Different in meaning 26. Man Man Free translation Different in context 27. Mr Mr. Free translation Different in meaning As shown from the table above, Malay dominated the addressing terms because Malay is neutral language that can be used by Javanese and Dutch in their daily conversations. Noni, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Nak, Sinyo, and Abang are addressing terms that belong to Malay addressing terms. These terms are more common because Malay is widely used in all Dutch East Indies. In the other hand, there were some Javanese addressing terms such as Nyai, Ndoro, Kowe, Gus, Mas, and Man that were used in particular occasions or refer to particular people. Similar to Javanese addressing terms, Dutch addressing terms are only used for certain people. Juffrouw, Mevrouw, Meneer, and Meester are Ducth addressing terms that only used to call Dutch people. There are three patterns in translating addressing terms. In the first pattern, the translator used denotative equivalence which only focused on the meaning of the terms. Machali (2000) stated that as a method, literal translation considers as the most important translation procedure because the basic of literal translation is in clause or sentence level. However, translating addressing terms include and reflect the culture of the society because the addressing terms that were used by the characters determine their background whether their status or ethnicity. Even the words in source text have the same denotation with target text, they do not always have the same connotation. The translator used two different procedures in translating the addressing terms for the first pattern. The first procedure is lexical translation which is used to translate Tuanmuda, Tuan, Papa, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Aku, Kowe, and Nak. Some of the terms are not appropriate because there is the difference of interpersonal perspective. The second procedure is adaptation. The translator attempted to make the addressing terms familiar in target text. The terms Juffrouw, Mevrouw, Meneer, Ndoro, and Noni are special concepts that were used in Dutch colonial era. The translation text could be understood by the reader of the target text, but the reader can not catch the essence that those terms are particular addressing terms for certain groups. So, even the words of source text have denotative equivalence in target text, but they are not suitable for the context of source text. In the second pattern, the translator did not change the addressing terms because the terms, Noni, Nyai, Ndoro, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas are special concept of source text that do not have any equivalence word in target text. The translator used annotation to translate because he persisted to use the original terms and gave glossary to explain the meaning of the term. The writer noticed that the translator is understand that the addressing terms have important role to distinguish the identity of the characters, but he only highlighted Javanese addressing terms. The concept of thing in Dutch and English are almost similar because they are in the same language family. So, the translator was easy to find out the lexical equivalence from Ducth terms to English terms. However, the concept of some words such as Noni, Sinyo, and Nyai are especially used in colonial era, so it is difficult to find out the equivalence in target text. Ndoro, Gus, and Mas are terms from Javanese culture who really emphasis in status and familiarity while English only differ for formal or informal situation. Unfortunately, the translator used inconsistent translation procedures for one term. For instance, the term Noni is translated as Miss by using lexical translation and the translator also used annotation in other text so that he did not change the addressing terms. These conditions would make the reader confuse and would make wrong interpretation that Miss and Noni are different. The last pattern showed that the translator change the form of the addressing terms. The translator used free style translation. The translator missed to understand the language system of source text and target text because he translated Nyai-Nyai as Nyais and Tuan-Tuan as Tuans. Nyai and Tuan are not English term, so the plural form of Nyai and Tuan are not necessarily Nyais or Tuans because it is unclear whether Nyai and Tuan are countable or uncountable noun. Accountability concept is universal concept that can be understood by all people and can be expressed through lexical structure in all language, but not all languages have grammatical category for number and not all languages apply the same concept for number. The second analysis is relation between power and solidarity toward the addressing using T and V because in previous part, there are many translations of addressing term that are not appropriate to the context of the novel. The ways of people in choosing the addressing terms are really related to the culture that exist in their society. The culture of society consists of everything that everybody has to know or believe in order to operate manner that acceptable for its member. In Javanese society, especially in the past, the kingdom applied feudal system. This system force lower class people to respect much to people who have more power. Gilman (1960; 252) defined Power as a relationship between at least two persons and it is nonreciprocal because both can not have the same authority. There are many forms of power such as physical strength, wealth, age, sex, institutionalized role in the state, the army, or within the family. The relations called older than, richer than, stronger than, employer of, richer than and nobler then are all asymmetrical. If A is older than B, B is not older than A. The relation called "more powerful than". The pronoun usage expressing this power relation is also asymmetrical or nonreciprocal, with the greater receiving V and the lesser T. Pronoun form of T and V were used by some European countries to differ between 'singular you' tu (T) and 'plural you' vos (V). Now, T and V are used as symbols; the T form is often described as the familiar form and the V form as the polite one. The superior will say T to the inferior and receives V, and vice versa. T and V approach also could be used to indicate solidarity. The T form is usually used by people who stand in the same position. It reflects symmetrical relation; for instance: attended the same school or have the same parents or practice in the same profession. The T of solidarity can be produced by frequency of contact as well as by objective similarities. The dimension of solidarity is potentially appropriate to all persons addressed. Power superiors may be solidarity (parents, elder siblings) or not solidarity (officials whom one seldom sees). Reciprocal T usage was always available to show intimacy. The following part would discuss the power of characters and its influence among the other characters and the writer used T and V form to analyze them. To sum up the relation of power and solidarity through the addressing term that were chosen by the characters in Bumi Manusia, the writer summarized them into a table. The table would illustrate the addressing terms, the interlocutors, the relation between interlocutors, and the function of the addressing terms. Table 2 The T and V form of Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia No Addressing Term Interlocutor Relation Function 1 Juffrouw Java – Dutch Dutch- Indo nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 2 Noni Java – Indo nonreciprocal Respecting 3 Mevrouw Java – Dutch Dutch -Dutch Indo – Indo nonreciprocal reciprocal reciprocal Respecting showing intimacy respecting 4 Nyai Java – Java Dutch - Java reciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 5 Tuanmuda Dutch – Java Java - Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 6 Tuan Java - Java Java – Dutch nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 7 Ndoro Java – Dutch Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 8 Meneer Java – Dutch nonreciprocal Respecting 9 Mama Ann – Nyai Minke – Nyai nonreciprocal nonreciprocal showing intimacy showing intimacy 10 Papa Indo – western nonreciprocal showing intimacy 11 Aku Java - Java Java – Dutch reciprocal nonreciprocal showing intimacy showing intimacy 12 Sahaya Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 13 Kowe Dutch – Java nonreciprocal Disrespecting 14 Nak Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 15 Gus Java – Java nonreciprocal showing intimacy 16 Sinyo Java –Indo Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting respecting 17 Abang Indo - Indo Java – Java nonreciprocal nonreciprocal Respecting showing intimacy 18 Mas Indo – Java reciprocal showing intimacy 19 Man Dutch – Java nonreciprocal Disrespecting 20 Mr (Meester) Java – Dutch nonreciprocal Respecting The table above shows that there are three functions of addressing terms, respecting, disrespecting, and showing intimacy. From the data above, the relations of the interlocutors are mostly nonreciprocal, so it shows that social status is very important in colonial era because the nonreciprocal relations illustrate the difference power between addressor and addressee. In many nonreciprocal cases, the higher social status will get V form from the addressors to show their respect and say T form because they are not stand in the same position as the addressee. Except respecting, nonreciprocal relation is also used to show disrespect. The addressing terms that are used to disregard are especially designed for lower class by upper class or have bad connotation. In contrast, to show intimacy, the relations of the interlocutors are sometimes reciprocal or nonreciprocal. The dimension of solidarity is little bit different from power, because even the interlocutors are not stand in the same position they can use intimate addressing terms because their relations are close. DISCUSSION After analyzing the translation of addressing terms from the source text to target text, now the writer discusses the result of the analysis. Comparison of Original and Translation The research compares the field, tenor, and mode of Bumi Manusia and This Earth of Mankind. The concept of field, tenor, and mode are sociolinguistic dimensions of context of situation jointly characterizing a particular register. House (2009; 33) stated that the original and its translation should have an equivalent function whenever possible. He also said that text and context of situation are indeed separated, but the two interact with each other through inextricable connection between the social environment and the functional organization of language. Before analyzing the register, it is needed to analyze the genre first. House (2009; 35) explained that genre connect an individual text with the larger cultural context of the linguistic and cultural community in which the text is embedded. The genre of Bumi Manusia is historical fiction but it is based on the reality. It included to historical story because the setting illustrated the situation of Indonesia in the late of nineteenth century. The author used particular time and places that make the story as if it was real. The story happened in 1890's, when the national movement had been begun by native to fight against colonizer through non-violence way. Field The first dimension of register is field. Holmes (2009; 34) explained that field captures the subject matter or topic. It describes what the text is about and what kinds of thing are in text. The text was about Minke's life. It describe Minke's journey who is a naïve boy at first to be a mature person. In that process, Minke should face many problems dealing not only with himself but also his society and the colonizer. The complexities of Minke's problem include the conflict of social judgments, hierarchy system, and racial conflict. The description of this story is not so much as historical text but an attractive, easily readable story. Evidence for this is the use of Malay language in telling the story rather than Javanese or Dutch. Malay was language of interracial communication which was used by many people weather Native or Eurasian. However, there were many terms that are not Malay, but they were only used as addressing term. The choice of particular addressing term in Bumi Manusia shows the style of speaking and the purpose of the speaker, indeed the social status. Mevrouw, Juffrouw, Meester, and Meneer are some addressing terms that were borrowed from Dutch language, while Mas, Ndoro, Gus, Mas and Man are some addressing terms that were borrowed from Javanese language. The used of various addressing terms has function as the mark of power and solidarity. As seen in table 4.1.3 (see page 102) there are three functions of addressing terms, respecting, disrespecting, and showing intimacy. From that data, the relations of the interlocutors are mostly nonreciprocal, so it shows that social status is very important in colonial era because the nonreciprocal relations illustrate the difference power between addressor and addressee. The feudal and colonial system forced people to respect everyone who have more power. Geertz (1960: 282) explained that it is nearly impossible for language that applied etiquette system to say anything without indicating the social relationship between the speaker and the listener in terms of status and familiarity. In many nonreciprocal cases, the higher social status will get V form from the addressors to show their respect and say T form because they are not stand in the same position as the addressee. Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ndoro, Menner, Sahaya, Sinyo, Abang, and Meester are addressing terms to show respect. The translation appears to be generally and decrease its local color because the absence of Dutch addressing terms as the marker of Dutch colonial. Even the translation of Dutch addressing terms have the same function to respect the addressee, the translation can not replace the emotion and the feeling of the original. Except respecting, nonreciprocal relation is also used to show disrespect. The addressing terms that are used to disregard are especially designed for lower class by upper class or have bad connotation. For instance, Kowe is addressing term that was used by Dutch people to express disrespect toward Javanese. The translation of Kowe, you, can not express the same function as the original because this term is neutral addressing term. In contrast, to show intimacy, the relations of the interlocutors are sometimes reciprocal or nonreciprocal. The dimension of solidarity is little bit different from power. Even the interlocutors were not stand in the same position they can use intimate addressing terms because their relations are close. In Bumi Manusia, the relations of the people who used intimate addressing terms such as Mama, Papa, Gus, Abang, and Nak were nonreciprocal. Gus, Abang and Nak were used by older people to younger people. In Javanese, age is one of the main distinctions of nonreciprocal relation. The older people do not need to use polite form, but in this case Gus, Abang and Nak are polite addressing term that indicated close relationship between older and younger people. The translation of Abang (your friend) and Nak (child) can not full fill the same function as the intimate sign like the original did. Tenor House (2009; 34) stated that tenor refers to the nature of the participants, the author and his or her addressee, the relationship between them in terms of social power and familiarity, the author's intellectual and affective position, that is, his or her personal viewpoint. The author was an Indonesian author of novels, short stories, essays, polemic and histories of his homeland and its people. The author seemed to be very aware of the conditions of his story. He attempted to create colonial atmosphere as same as the reality. The choice of the addressing terms included Dutch, Malay, and Javanese was the evident. By differing the addressing terms based on the ethnicity and social status, the author would like to inform the reader the 'reality' in the past. He wanted to show that there were social distance between poor and rich, also Javanese as the colony and Dutch as the colonizer. He persisted to use Dutch addressing terms rather than change it into Malay to create colonial atmosphere because at that time Dutch people make their language as exclusive language. The translator also tried to create colonial atmosphere by using Java and Malay addressing term that do not have equivalent in English. However, instead of using Dutch term as the author did, the translator change the addressing terms into English. Dutch and English are still in the same language family, so there are many terms of English and Dutch that have the same meaning. Mevrouw, Juffrouw, Meneer, and Meester are Dutch terms. Except Meester, they are denotatively equivalent. Mevrouw could be translated as Mrs, Juffrouw as Miss, and Meneer as Mr. They have the same referents in the real world, so it makes them denotatively equivalents. Although, the translator failed to capture that Dutch addressing term has special function as imperial impression. Ashcroft (2002; 7) stated that one of main features of imperial oppression is control over language. Dutch people, at that time, not only controlled for social, politic, and economic aspects but also controlled the language. They limit the used of their language for themselves and their offspring to marginalize their colonies. The translator did not catch the author's aim that he wanted to show the great distance between Dutch and Javanese people. Instead of giving the Dutch colonial atmosphere, the translator gave mental image of British colonialism because the special terms that implicate Dutch colonialism had been translated in English terms. Based on the table in 4.1 (see page 3), most addressing term translation dealt with cultural context. This problem arose because the translation and the original can not make the same psychological understanding for the readers. In addition, the translator used inconsistent term in his translations that primarily make the reader confused. Mode House (2009; 34) defined Mode as a channel of communication. Equivalence in dimension of mode relates to the means whereby the communication is performed. In Bumi Manusia, there were some addressing terms that have different meaning than the lexical meaning because of the feeling of the speaker. Kowe actually is common addressing terms in Javanese society to address someone who is younger or have closed relation, but when it is used by Dutch people the function is changed from showing intimacy become disrespecting. When the Dutch people used Kowe in Bumi Manusia novel, the character always used it in high tension. However, the reader will not catch that Kowe has negative connotation directly because the translation term, you, is neutral addressing terms. The communication purpose of the term Kowe cannot easily catch. So, the irritation of the character could not be understood by the reader. As seen from the mode, field, and tenor analyses above, it show that the original and the translation are not equivalence. The genre of the translation in translating addressing term is not so much as the original because some translation of the addressing terms can not reveal the atmosphere of Dutch colonial that become the main point in this equivalence problem. Equivalence Problem in Translating Addressing Terms in Bumi Manusia The analysis of register categories above clearly showed that the original and translation are not equal. Equivalence of source text and target has limited area because not all of the equivalence approaches can achieved all translation cases. The main factor that made the addressing in source text do not have suitable equivalence in target text is the special concept of Dutch colonial and Javanese culture. Nababan (1999: 99) said that the concept of source text can reveal a concept that is not well known in the target text. Some addressing terms from source text that has special concept are difficult to have their equivalence in target text because of the cultural concept of addressing term from Dutch and Javanese like Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai, Ndoro, Meneer, Gus, Sinyo, Mas, Man, and Meester. Those terms can not easily be transferred to target text because those terms are created by certain condition in particular communities. Some of those terms, Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Ndoro, and Meneer have the same denotation with the translation term, but the original and translation addressing term have different connotation that make them share different interpretation. The special concept that can not be replaced in target text lead to others related problem. The special concept of particular culture make the language concept of source text is not available in target text. Nababan (1999: 99) explained that the words of source text could be understand and recognized in target text but the target text does not have a term that can reveal the concept from source text. In this case, the term Sahaya and Kowe in source text have different concept from Aku and Kau. The target text do not differ the first and second singular pronoun that make the translation of Sahaya and Kowe have different function from source text. Even the concept of Sahaya and Kowe could be understand in the target text, but the term that have the same meaning and connotation with those term are not available. So, the translator used 'I' and 'you' in a pinch to replace Sahaya and Kowe even 'I' and 'you' also used to translate Aku and Kau. The complexities of Javanese community that apply speech level also direct the translation to the equivalence problem because it makes difference of interpersonal perspective. Nababan (1999: 03) argued that interpersonal perspective is related to the relation of the participants in a text. In a language that really concern to etiquette like Javanese, Geertz stated that it is impossible to address someone without pay attention to the status of the addressee. Etiquette system force the people to create different term for one concept, so the participant can easily choose the right term to address someone that suitable for both the addressor and the addressee. For instance, in Bumi Manusia there are three different addressing terms to call male parent, Papa, Ayah and Ayahanda. The use of those addressing term could reflect the social status of the addressor and the addressee. Papa is used in western family who live Dutch East Indies, Ayah is used in middle-low family, while Ayahanda is used in Javanese aristocrat family. This difference of Papa, Ayah and Ayahanda can not be seen in the translation because the translator translated them as 'father'. The other problem of equivalence that appears because of the particular culture of the two languages is the difference of expressive meaning. According to Nababan (1999: 103) the words in source text and target text have the same proportional meaning but often they are different in expressive meaning. There are many addressing terms that have the same proportional meaning but they are different in expressive meaning because Malay terms differentiate the addressing terms based on the relationship and the social status. The term Nak has the same proportional meaning with child, but they are used in different intention. Nak is for showing intimacy but child dispose to create formal atmosphere rather than familiarity. Both terms have the same proportional meaning but they express different purpose and connotation. The different perspective toward a concept will also lead the translation to equivalence problem (Nababan, 1999: 101). Furthermore, it is also the effect of special concept in source text. The term Man in Javanese context at that time was used to address Javanese adult male from middle-low status. In the translation text, the term Man translated as man because English does not distinguish the term man for rich or poor people. In the other hand, the translator also missed to capture the perspective of the character in choosing particular term when he translated Abang. The proportional meaning of Abang is addressing term to call elder brother but it could be used to call man or boy who is elder than the addressee. The translator translated Abangmu as your friend but from Nyai Ontosoroh's point of view, she used Abangmu to make Annelies felt comfort and consider Minke as her own son. Changing the term Abangmu as your friend would lead the reader to different understanding because it seems that Nyai Ontosoroh treat Minke as only her guest. The other factor except special concept of Dutch colonial and Javanese culture is the difference in grammatical system. Nababan (1999; 108) stated that grammatical equivalence focuses to the similar concept of source text and target text at the level of number, gender, person, tense, and aspect. In translating the addressing term, the problem appeared when source language and target language have different grammatical system. The term Nyai-Nyai became Nyais or Tuan-Tuan became Tuans is not equivalence because both term are Malay term. Malay and English apply different method to change the singular concept to be plural. The translator used free style translation and he missed to understand the language system of source text and target text because he translated Nyai-Nyai as Nyais and Tuan-Tuan as Tuans. Nyai and Tuan are not English term, so the plural form of Nyai and Tuan are not necessarily Nyais or Tuans because it is unclear whether Nyai and Tuan are countable or uncountable noun. Accountability concept is universal concept that can be understood by all people and can be expressed through lexical structure in all language, but not all languages have grammatical category for number and not all languages apply the same concept for number. Therefore, the translator should observe carefully whether one concept of a language could be applied to another language or not. The reader of the target text would feel unfamiliar because in some text, the translator used Nyai and Tuan for singular form, but after that those terms became Nyais and Tuans, whereas the reader could have another understanding rather than think that those terms are plural form because they never know the terms Nyais and Tuans before. Double Perspective in Translating Bumi Manusia Constructing the effective translation is one of the purposes of translation. Nababan (1999:88) stated that there are two main factors that determine the effectiveness of the translation. The first is dimension of linguistic and knowledge. Straight (as quoted in Nababan, 1999) said that fruitfulness in conveying the message depends on the knowledge about the context of culture and the language system of source language and target language. In this case, the translator failed to capture that addressing term play important role because it reflects etiquette culture of Javanese and Dutch colonial culture in Dutch East Indies. The second factor is purpose dimension. Nababan (1999, 87) stated that the translator should decide the purpose of the translation. Further, he explained that the purpose should meet this criteria; fruitful to the original, use translation style that appropriate to source text, use suitable equivalence, and the readability level of translation fitted to the source text. However, the analysis in the previous part show that the translation of addressing terms dealt with many equivalence problems and shared different function and connotation from the original that make the translation become unreadable and confusing for the reader. Both dimensions above can not be reached by the translator because he used more than one perspective in translating the addressing terms. Before translating a text, a translator had to analyze the source text to understand the content of the text. Then, the translator chose the approach that is suitable for source text. From the data in the table in 4.1 (see page 3), the writer found some addressing terms that have many equivalent problems. The translator may use more than one procedure in translating addressing terms because the procedure of translation is for sentences or smaller linguistics units as clause, phrase, word, etc. However, before determining the procedure, the translator should choose the perspective or method that he wants to apply in translating the source text. The method that the translator used will be a framework that guides the translator to translate the text in a line. The writer noticed that the translator used double perspectives that make his translation contradictory. In translating addressing terms such as Noni, Ndoro, Nyai, Tuan, Tuanmuda, Papa, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas, the translator used perspective that was focus on the original text. House (2009: 15) explained that a focus on the (original) texts mean analyzing it, and systematically linking its form and functions in order to reveal the original author's motivated choices. The translator considered the reason of the author in choosing addressing terms and tried to find out the closest equivalence in target text, even for some addressing terms do not have any equivalence that make the translator insisted to use the original term. In contrast, the translator also used perspective that focus on the process of interpretation. House (2009: 20) defined this perspective as the translator way to builds up an individual mental representation of its meaning. House added that the reconstitution of the 'the meaning' of a text to fit another language and context is not the central point. It is dealing more with the invention of the translator then discovery of what is already exist in a text. Therefore, when the translator used this perspective to translate some addressing terms such as Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Nyai-Nyai, Tuan-Tuan, Nak, Abang, Man, etc the translation become very different from the context in source text. This perspective also leads the translator to make confusing translation because the translation for one term becomes inconsistent. Moreover some addressing terms have different meaning and connotation from the source text. In translating a text, translator should use only one perspective to make the synchronized translation. Double translation would lead the translator to different way in translating addressing term because one perspective deal with different point of view to another perspective. In Bumi Manusia case, it is much better for the translator to only apply the perspective that focus on the source text since the background of the original can not be easily transferred to target text. Moreover, if the translator was consistent to use one perspective, he would not make ambiguity translation. By understanding the whole context of the story that include ecology, technology, material culture, social organization, myth, and linguistic system of source text, the translator would have better perceptive to make good translation that fruitful to the original but it is still readable for the target reader. CONCLUSION This study is conducted to describe how the phenomenon of translating addressing terms is rolled out in BumiManusia and This Earth of Mankind. The conclusion of this study is formulated based on the statement of problems. Some translation theory based on several authors (House; 2009; Machali 2000; and Nababan; 1999): translation perspective, equivalence in translation, equivalence problem, and register categories of field, mode, and tenor are combined to the theory of addressing term (Wardaugh; 2006), pronouns of power and solidarity (Brown and Gilman; 1960) and lexical relation (Kreidler; 1998) to identify how the translator translated the addressing terms and the relation of the addressing terms toward the cultural context. Then, the writer comes to a conclusion that: The T and V approach also showed that power and solidarity become the main consideration for the characters in choosing addressing terms, so that the characters used different addressing terms depend on the status of the addressee and the relation among the characters. The translator used three patterns in translating addressing terms. In the first pattern, the translator used literal translation to translate Juffrouw, Noni, Mevrouw, Tuanmuda, Tuan, Ndoro, Meener, Papa, Ayah, Ayahanda, Sahaya, Aku, Kowe, and Nak. In second pattern, the translator used original terms, Noni, Nyai, Ndoro, Gus, Sinyo, and Mas in the target text. The last pattern is changing the addressing terms such as Nyai-Nyai, Tuan, Sahaya, Abang, Man, and Meester since the adaptation of target text. From the patterns above, it was found that the translator was inconsistent to translate some addressing terms because he translated one term used some different procedure that make the meaning of the addressing terms contradictory. Also he did not pay attention to the culture and the context that involve in addressing terms so he only did linguistic translation without concerning to the cultural influences. The main factor that lead untranslatability of translating Bumi Manusia's addressing terms is special concept of Javanese culture and Dutch colonial system that make the addressing terms can not be easily transferred to target. The difference of grammatical system of source language and target language also lead the translator to get difficulties in finding suitable equivalence for the addressing terms. Therefore the translator used double perspective to solve the equivalence problems. As a result double perspective that was expected to solve the problem instead made a larger problem because the translation of addressing terms become untranslatability and unreadable. SUGGESTION Addressing terms is general phenomenon which occurs in daily life. But, the analysis of translating addressing terms is still rarely discussed whereas linguistics and its branches is basically concerning with the use of language. From this study, the future researchers are suggested to be more interested in enlarging their knowledge dealing with applied linguistics, especially translating addressing terms which concerns with how translating addressing terms based on cultural context. Equally important, it is suggested for the readers to pay attention in choosing addressing terms based on the condition and the status of the addressee because the wrong addressing terms choices will make the addressee feel insulted or annoyed REFERENCES Ananta Toer, Pramoedya. 2011. Bumi Manusia. Jakarta: Lentera Dipantara. Ananta Toer, Pramoedya. 1996. This Earth of Mankind. New York: Penguin books Ltd. Ashcroft, Bill and Griffiths, Gareth. 2002. The Empire Writes Back – Theory and practice in post-colonial literatures. New York and London: Routledge Taylor & Francis Group. Bogdan, Robert. C and Sari Knopp Biklen. 1982. Qualitative Research for Education: an Introduction to Theory and Methods.Allyn and Bacon. Inc. USA Brown, R., Gilman, A. 1960. The pronouns of Power and Solidarity. Thomas A. Sebeok, eds. Style in Language. Cambridge-Massachusetts: The Technology Press of Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 252-275. Geertz, Clifford. 1960. Linguistic Etiquette. Thomas A. Sebeok, eds. Style in Language. Cambridge-Massachusetts: The Technology Press of Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 282-295 Holmes, Janet. 1992. An Inroduction to Sociolinguistics. London and New York: Longman Group. Hornby, A. S. (Ed.) 1948. Advanced Learner's Dictionary (7th ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. House, Juliane. 2009. Translation. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Machali, R. .2000. Pedoman Bagi Penerjemah. Jakarta: Grasindo. Nababan, R. 1999. Teori Menerjemah Bahasa Inggris. Yogyakarta: PustakaPelajar Pramoedya Ananta Toer. Retrieved on June 25, 2013 from site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramoedya_Ananta_Toer Rothschild, Metthew. Interview with Pramoedya Ananta Toer. The Progressive Magazine. Retrieved on June 26, 2013 from site: http://www.progressive.org/mag_intv1099 Sugiyono. 2010. MetodePenelitianKuantitatif R & D. Bandung: Alfabeta. Wardhaugh, Ronald. 2006. An Introduction to Sociolinguistic.Oxford: Blackwell Publishing Widyastuti, Susana. Componential Analysis of Meaning: Theory and Applications. Online journal. Retrieved on June 25, 2013 from site: http://eprints.uny.ac.id/1174 W. Kreidler, Charles. 1998. Introducing English Semantic. London: Routledge.

H. DeWayne Ashmead ; The Weber and Davis County Communities Oral History Collection include interviews of citizens from several different walks of life. These interviews were conducted by Stewart Library personnel, WeberState University faculty and students, and other members of the community. The histories cover various topics and chronicle the personal everyday life experiences and other recollections regarding the history of the Weber and Davis County areas. ; 66p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 video disc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Harvey DeWayne Ashmead Interviewed By Rebecca Ory Hernandez 22 October 2012 29 October 2012 26 November 2012 i ii Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Harvey DeWayne Ashmead Interviewed by Rebecca Ory Hernandez 22 October 2012 29 October 2012 26 November 2012 Copyright © 2013 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in the University Archives, which also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber and Davis County Communities Oral History Collection include interviews of citizens from several different walks of life. These interviews were conducted by Stewart Library personnel, Weber State University faculty and students, and other members of the community. The histories cover various topics and chronicle the personal everyday life experiences and other recollections regarding the history of the Weber and Davis County areas. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Ashmead, Harvey DeWayne, an oral history by Rebecca Ory Hernandez, 22 and 29 October 2012 and 26 November 2012, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. H. DeWayne Ashmead November 26, 2012 1 Abstract: H. DeWayne Ashmead (DOB: June 4, 1944), President and CEO of Albion Laboratories, Inc., shared his oral history with Rebecca Ory Hernandez from Weber State University during the months of October and November 2012. DeWayne sat with Rebecca in his executive office and shared stories about his life, including his childhood, his education, the history of Albion, Inc., his family, and his partnership with Weber State University. DeWayne spoke in detail about his father and the history of the Albion minerals business. DeWayne also expanded on his background in joining the company and developing Albion Laboratories into what it is today ROH: Today is Monday, October 22, 2012. We are in the office of Albion Laboratories. Present are H. DeWayne Ashmead and Rebecca Ory Hernandez from Weber State University. I would like to get started by asking you to state your name and tell me where and when you were born. DA: My full name is Harvey DeWayne Ashmead. I am named after my father, Harvey. I was born June 6, 1944, on D-Day in Brigham City. I could have had a lot of different middle names. My mother debated whether or not to name me Dwight after Dwight Eisenhower because it was D-day and he led the D-day forces. Ultimately, she decided to name me DeWayne, the "De" standing for D-day. ROH: Were you born in the hospital or at home? DA: In the hospital. My father was the head pharmacist at Bushnell General Hospital in Brigham City and my mother was also working at the hospital. There was a 2 4,500 bed hospital for the soldiers, but I was born in the civilian Brigham City Hospital not the military hospital. ROH: Why don't you tell me a little bit about your parents and your childhood? DA: My parents were really cool. I have often said that when I grew up I wanted to be just like my dad, so I'll start with him. His name was Harvey. He was born in a log cabin out on the prairie in 1916. This was in Camas County, Idaho near a community that no longer exist called Corral. He grew up riding horses and doing all the things kids did I suppose. When he was a toddler, the Indians tried to steal him and when they couldn't steal him they tried to buy him. Apparently, he was very attractive to the Indians. He grew up helping his father and brothers on what became the family farm at Corral. It was initially a cattle ranch until his father got into a dispute with the sheep men. The sheep men won, so the cattle had to be sold and they converted the ranch to a farm. He went to a single classroom grade school through the eighth grade with a single teacher that taught all of the grades at once. When he went to high school in the ninth grade, he had to move away from home and board with a family in the city of Fairfield about 10 miles away from home. At that point in time, it was too far to commute. He would stay there all winter and go to high school there. When he graduated from high school, his father wanted him to come back and help him on the farm. My dad wanted to go to college. My grandfather said, "That's stupid. I've got an eighth grade education and I've been very successful. 3 You've got a high school education you don't need to go to college." My dad persisted and he had to send himself to college and support himself. He used to say he was the best latrine cleaner around, which I suppose means that he was a janitor. ROH: Where did he go to college? ZD: He went to Idaho State University and graduated in pharmacy. Initially, that's what he wanted to do. My grandfather, upon learning that he was studying pharmacy, gave my father a little bit of money to help him in college because he recalled that during prohibition the local pharmacist made the best moonshine of anyone in the valley. He assumed that what my father was learning how to do was to make moonshine. Anyway, my father became a pharmacist. Later on in life he did not practice pharmacy, but he still maintained the license. After he was married to my mother, they went off to graduate school. My mother wanted to get a degree in speech pathology and my father wanted to get a medical doctor's degree. They went to Washington State University. They almost starved to death, so they had to come back and live in the real world. That's about when I was born. Ultimately, my father got a doctor's degree in biochemistry and considered himself to be a biochemist, not a pharmacist. My mother came from a family that was much more interested in education. My grandfather, who was born in the 1880's, had a bachelor's degree from the University of Utah. My grandmother had a degree from BYU. Since both had college degrees it was expected that all of their children would go to college. 4 My mother went to Utah State University and got her bachelor's degree in English and was qualified to be a school teacher. She wanted to go on for graduate work. Ultimately, she did her master's work at the University of Denver and got her master's degree and doctoral degree at the University of Utah in speech pathology and oral myology. They were both highly educated. ROH: Yes, indeed. Were you all expected to go to college? DA: Yes. I have three sisters. Two of them went to college. My oldest sister, who is three years younger than I, went to one year of college and said, "I don't like this." She got married instead. My other two sisters went on and both got bachelor's degrees and one got her doctorate. We were expected to go to college. ROH: Tell me a little bit about growing up and your childhood leading up to when you started grade school. Do you have any stories or memories from childhood that stand out? DA: Probably none that I really recall. I can think of two or three, but nothing significant. My mother used to tell a story that she liked to repeat frequently. When we were still living in Brigham City, at the end of the Second World War, there were a lot of Native Americans that lived in Brigham City. She talks about one occasion when I was just a toddler, I was playing outside and a family of Indians went down the street in single file from the father to the mother, then all the kids down to the smallest. My mother said that I watched them walk by and just got in line to follow them right down the street. There were all of these brown- 5 skinned Indians and a little white boy in a diaper going down the street. She said it was really a funny sight to see. ROH: Where did you go to school? DA: From Brigham City, we moved a lot. We moved to Salt Lake and ultimately moved to Denver where I started my public education. My father accepted employment in Brooklyn, New York, but my mother said, "I'm not going." We remained in Denver while Harvey started the veterinary division of Pfizer Laboratories in New York. He was one of the senior management at Pfizer and was one of the candidates for the presidency of Pfizer when he left the company. While at Pfizer, he would commute between Brooklyn and Denver while we stayed in Denver. I recall one of the things I did one summer in Denver. I attended a Methodist Bible School that summer which was kind of interesting. I graduated from the Methodist Bible School and don't recall too much about the classes other than that they gave me a certificate and a pencil, so that was important. I started grade school near our home. I may have used a school bus, but I don't recall it. As time went on in grade school I did use a bus and I'll come back to that in a minute. My mother talks about one time she was supposed to pick me up after school and she was late getting there. All of the teachers and students left and she still wasn't there. She said I hid in the bushes so people couldn't find me. I waited for her for a while and finally sat out on the curb until she came to 6 pick me up. She said my comment was, "I knew you'd come and get me." This school was from kindergarten to third grade. In the second grade, I had a girlfriend. For years I've struggled to remember her name and haven't struggled hard enough because I can't remember it. Nevertheless, she was really an important girlfriend. I wanted her to sit by me on the bus. I was terribly shy, but I bribed her by giving her the little prizes out of the cracker jacks boxes. I had a big collection so I'd give her a prize every day if she'd sit by me on the bus. Apparently, she liked me as well because the kids started teasing her about it and dared her to give me a kiss. One day, she leaned over and gave me a kiss on the cheek and I was mortified. ROH: You weren't counting on that. DA: No, I wasn't, but it was wonderful. I brought her home from school one day to meet my parents and I had her wait in the foyer so I could go tell my parents. They told me I had to sit down and eat right then. So, I went back to the foyer and told her she had to go home and that's the last memory I have of her. Anyway, we started grade school with kindergarten. I remember having to take naps in kindergarten. It was an all-day kindergarten not a half day, but we had to take a nap. I remember very little from first and second grade except that a third grader was misbehaving and his teacher sent him back to the second grade as punishment. It was just to shame him. I can remember my second grade teacher having him sit next to me and we were doing an art project. I looked at what he was coloring or drawing and how much better it was than what 7 I could create because he was older and it really impressed me. I remember some of the early books, Dick and Jane books that we had to learn to read from and how stupid they were. In the winter, my mother would worry about me getting cold, so she insisted that I wear long-legged underwear. I hated them and did not want to wear them, but I did because she insisted. She even bought a pair for my father just to show me, "See, even real men wear long underwear." We had gymnastics tumbling. On one occasion, we were going to perform in front of an audience and my mother was supposed to bring me some regular short underwear because we had to wear short shorts and t-shirts for this tumbling. She didn't show up in time and I had to roll that long underwear up and try and hide it underneath my shorts. I wasn't very successful and I was mortified. I don't remember anything about the tumbling. I just remember that terrible long-legged underwear. ROH: Did you enjoy school? Was it always something that you liked? DA: I always liked school. I enjoyed school from grade school throughout my university career. In fact, if I had the time and the patience, I'd go back to school right now. I don't really have the time and I don't really have the patience to listen to some professor's pontificate on things that I know as much or more about. I just wouldn't put up with it. ROH: Tell me where you fall in line of your siblings. Are you the oldest? DA: I am the oldest. I have a sister who is three years younger, another six years younger and another that is 13 years younger than I. 8 ROH: Are they all still living? DA: Yes. They're all still living. ROH: You went through third grade in Denver. Did you stay in Denver that entire time or did you move back and forth from Kindergarten to third grade? DA: We moved some. My parents were struggling financially. I just learned that probably in the last year as I've been trying to write a little history of my parents. They struggled and for some of the time that we were living in Denver, my mother took my sister and me to Idaho. She dropped us off at her parents' home in Idaho and left her parents to raise us while she taught school in another community. She had a license to teach school in Idaho and Utah, but not in Colorado. My father was basically living in Brooklyn at the time, so it didn't matter if she was in Idaho or Colorado because he wasn't coming home. There were no jets, it was all prop planes and it was expensive. He would come home about once every couple of months and wouldn't stay more than a day or two or three and he'd be gone again. He was building a veterinary drug company for Pfizer in New York. I also remember one time being with my grandparents in Kimberly, Idaho and my mother was asked to be a substitute teacher. There was a teacher that wasn't able to fulfill the teaching contract and my mother agreed to teach grade school for a month or so until they could find another teacher. Idaho schools started prior to the Colorado schools, so she put me in school along with my cousin while she taught our class. My cousin would call her Aunt Allez until 9 he was teased into calling her Mrs. Ashmead. I called her Mom until I was teased into calling her Mrs. Ashmead. For about a month she was my grade school teacher and then we went back to Colorado. In about 1953, the financial difficulties that my parents were facing were becoming a crisis. They needed more money. My mother found employment in Utah working for the state. She had completed most of her requirements for her master's degree in speech pathology in Denver, so she told my father she was going to move back to Utah. She couldn't work in Colorado, but she could in Utah. My father decided that it was time for him to resign from Pfizer, even though they offered him the presidency. He quit and came back to Utah with my mother. ROH: Do you know why he quit? DA: Because my mother was moving. I suspect that his employment was putting a strain on their marriage and it was probably heading for divorce if he didn't quit. That's purely speculation. I never heard the "D" word at all. I never saw any indication that my parents wanted to separate. They were both highly motivated individuals trying to rise to the top of their careers, but when it came to the family and the marriage they pulled back together and my father decided to sacrifice his career to go with my mother back to Utah. He didn't quit immediately and move back to Utah. He moved to Utah and subsequently resigned from Pfizer two years later in 1955. 10 My mother went to work for the state of Utah in the education department as a speech pathologist. She went to the University of Utah to finish her degree and was awarded her master's degree at the University of Utah. She worked for the state of Utah for about a year and was then offered a position in Davis County to start a speech and hearing program. She accepted that and we moved to Kaysville because it was the center of Davis County so she could move in either direction. She started the speech and hearing program for the county initially on her own, but it grew into two employees that worked for her. Plus, she was supervising 12 students from the university who were also working for her. The speech and hearing program in Davis County became the model for the rest of the state. It then became the model for other countries. I can recall that she was invited to the Soviet Union to train them on how to set up a speech and hearing program for their school system. She went elsewhere around the United States on behalf of the state of Utah to teach others how to do this. She became quite well-known in this area and by the time she got her doctorate, she was one of six people in the world qualified to do what she did and the only woman. I am proud of her. She graduated the same year with her doctorate that I got my bachelor's from Weber. I've got pictures of her in her doctoral robes and me in my Weber State robes. ROH: Do you recall any conversations about why you weren't all just moved up to New York? 11 DA: My mother did not want to go any further East. During the First World War, my father worked on a research project to stabilize penicillin so it could be used to treat the wounded soldiers. He was successful in developing a stabilized form of penicillin. It became widespread in its usage around the world because of the work he did. While he was at Bushnell General Hospital, he started to work on an amino acid therapy for soldiers that were burned. Burn patients were losing amino acids, and the doctors said, "We have to give them amino acids." However, the amino acids were so vile that most soldiers that tried to drink the concoction would vomit it back before they could even get it swallowed. Some started even before then as they got it close to their nose. My father started working on a palatable form of amino acids. It was, for the most part, developed before the end of the war, but not in its final stage. The drug company, Mead- Johnson, hired my father at the end of the war to go back to Evansville, Indiana to finish the project. My father went back there and joined their research and development group and finished the project. In fact, if you look at the drink "Ensure" and the infant formulas, all of them have their genesis in the work that he did. I've had scientists tell me that they actually saw the notebooks that my father had written at Mead-Johnson and saw what he developed. During that time, I was an infant and I was left with my grandparents while my mother went with my father back to Indiana. When he completed that research, Mead- Johnson offered him full-time employment, but neither of parents particularly liked living in Indiana. They went on to New York, then to Florida and elsewhere 12 for several weeks looking around and neither of them were in love with what they saw. I suspect that my mother in reflecting on those initial trips said, "I don't want to go any further East than Denver. I was born and bred in the West, I'm going to stay in the West and I don't want my kids growing up in the East." They had purchased a home in Denver. I suspect they were having trouble making house payments, but it was still their home. I know that my mother did not have a car which made it difficult with two babies and having to take street cars to get wherever she wanted to go including a grocery store. ROH: It was probably rough. Let's continue with your education. DA: Our first home when we moved from Denver to Salt Lake was near a school where I went to the fourth grade. The principal was Mr. Walker, who plays a role a little bit later in my life, so I'll come back to him in just a minute. In the fourth grade, we lived near the school. I had a girlfriend. I had lots of girlfriends. ROH: You did. DA: I'm not a Latin lover but I had lots of girlfriends. I had a girlfriend named Sandra West. My father loved to tease and of course at that age these girlfriends are secret girlfriends. Somehow, he found out that my girlfriend's name was Sandra West. I can remember him teasing me about that with my cousins. They were trying to discover what my girlfriend's name was and I wasn't about to tell them because it was secret. My father said, "Well, it isn't north, it isn't south, and it isn't east…" Then he stopped. I was mortified that he had told them. ROH: Now I know where you get your sense of humor. 13 DA: Her parents were friends with my folks, and I don't remember where, but it was earlier than just being in the neighborhood. Anyway, she was my girlfriend in the fifth grade. Then, we moved and Mr. Walker had a home that was about two or three miles from the school. The house that we were living in near the school was on a one year lease and the owners came back and they wanted their house, so Mr. Walker said, "Well, I have a rental house next to my house, you can come and live in it." My mother said, "Yeah, but I don't want to put my kids in a different school again." He said, "That's not a problem, they can stay in the same school and I'll take them to and from school." My parents agreed and we moved to a house on the Mill Creek east of Sugar House which had a big impact on me. I'll tell you about that in a moment. Anyway, this thing with Mr. Walker didn't work out. He left for school too early in the morning for us, so my parents had to take us to school. My sister and I, who were both in school there, didn't like waiting until 4:30 or later for him to get around to going home. We began walking the three or four miles to home. He never transported us really. ROH: That's a long walk. DA: It was, but we had to do it. There was no other option because my mother was working full-time and my father was still traveling. So, it was either go with Mr. Walker or walk home. This house was on the Mill Creek and it was a wonderful experience for me. All of my free time was spent exploring the woods along the creek and getting involved with the creek. When I think about it now, it was probably dangerous, but I didn't think about that. I was in the water and I did all sorts of things. I collected bugs and animals on the Mill Creek. I just thoroughly 14 loved it so much that I vowed that when I grew up I was going to have a home on the creek. After my wife and I were married, I searched for years for a creek and finally found one. We did build a home on the creek. It was because of that one year experience on the Mill Creek. ROH: Is it in Salt Lake? DA: No, it's in Fruit Heights. We built it on Baer Creek. When my wife and I found the creek, I followed it and found some land that I liked and tried to buy it. They wouldn't sell it to me. I found some additional land on the creek that I really liked and went to Davis County to find out who owned it. I found the name of the owner and went to him and said, "I'd liked to buy some property." This was all undeveloped property. He said, "Well, if I were to sell that land I'd have to have $12,000 an acre." I said, "Well, great. I want 3 acres." He said, "But I don't want to sell it." I said, "But I want it." So, for an entire year every week I either went and saw him or telephoned him to see if he would change his mind. Finally, after a year I had worn him down to the point he said, "Just take it." So, I bought the three acres. It was never a question of how much I was going to pay. It was just trying to get the land. We bought the land and ultimately built our house there where we still live. That was in 1976. ROH: Have you ever been back to the original Mill Creek house? DA: No. In fact, I question whether or not I could even find it. I probably could if I looked up an address, but we always called it the chicken coup because it looked like a chicken coup. A flat roofed chicken coup that had just been renovated into 15 a house. It was in a cul-de-sac with two other houses. Mr. Walker's house was the most elaborate. Then there was a second house that was next to his and it had solar panels on the roof. It was a solar energy house, which really would have been Avant Garde. I can remember the solar panels. I don't remember the people or what the husband did. Across from Mr. Walker's house in the cul-de-sac was the chicken coup where we lived. ROH: Were your sisters all born at this point? DA: No. I was born in Brigham City and my next sister was born in Salt Lake in 1947. My father was living in Denver trying to set up a home for my mother and me when my sister was born. My mother went into labor, and she didn't have a telephone so she went to the neighbor and used the neighbor's phone to call a taxi to come and get her. The taxi dropped her off in front of the hospital, took the money and said, "Goodbye." My mother went in with her big suitcase. She talked about only having one suitcase, the one she used when she went off to college to Utah State University. It was a big suitcase, not an overnight bag, but she lugged the big suitcase in and had the baby. She called my father and he got in the car in Denver and drove back to Salt Lake. My sister was born by then. He saw her for a couple of days and got back in his car and went back to Denver. My mother was in the hospital taking care of herself because he couldn't leave work. In Denver, my second sister was born in 1950. My father was at home and my mother was taking courses at the University of Denver. One of them was an arts and crafts course. I don't know why she was doing that, but the instructor 16 told her that regardless of the fact that she was pregnant, if she missed classes, she would be dropped from the program. When she went into labor, she had my father go to the class to take her place. The instructor asked my father what he wanted to do while he was there and he said, "Well, I'd like to carve a horse out of wood." The instructor said, "There's no way you can do that. You'd have to be trained for years and years to balance the horse. You just can't do it." So, my father went home and took out his pocket knife and carved a Tennessee Walker perfectly balanced on two feet with all the right muscles and everything. He took it back the next week and said, "Here." He'd never done anything like that before and it was a wonderful thing. That started his woodcarving hobby. He was extremely good at it. All of the pieces were professional pieces. On one occasion, I had two coloring books, a Roy Rogers coloring book and Gene Autry coloring book, each cowboy was featured on his horse on the cover of these coloring books and each horse was rearing. My father looked at the pictures and carved the two horses out of wood. Each horse was about 12 inches tall and rearing. He mounted them on a wooden base so it appeared that the two horses were fighting. It was just beautiful. He carved horse heads. Each head was about 8 inches tall. They were so realistic that they even had the blood vessels in the horses head. He knew animals intimately and he carved them accordingly. He was very, very good at it. Speaking of carving, it reminds me of another thing with my father and mother. I had cowboy heroes when I was a kid and one of them was Hopalong Cassidy. I just loved him. He was great. I also liked Roy Rogers. I wanted to 17 change my name to Roy once upon a time. Hopalong Cassidy was one of my heroes. I not only watched him in the movies, but I would buy the comic books whenever I could get my hands on one. It was rare that I got a comic book because my parents didn't have much money. One of the comic books that I did purchase showed Hopalong Cassidy being manipulated by the bad guys. The way they portrayed that manipulation was by attaching strings to his feet and hands to make him into a puppet. That was the picture on the cover of the comic book. So, I told Santa Claus I wanted a Hopalong Cassidy puppet. I must have been six or seven at the time because I still believed in Santa Claus. Obviously, a Hopalong Cassidy puppet did not exist, even though my mother searched high and low in the stores to find one. They didn't exist. So, my father took wood and carved this Hopalong Cassidy puppet. He carved the hand with the arm up to the elbow and he attached that to the upper part of the arm wrapping it with cloth so that there was a joint that allowed the arm to move. Then, he attached the arm to the shoulder with a cloth so it could also move. My mother sewed the clothes for the puppet. Hopalong Cassidy dressed in a black outfit, so she freehand sewed all of the clothes to dress the puppet in. Where they found them I don't know, but they also found little cowboy boots that they put on him, as well as a hat and pistols. I don't know where they found the pistols, but my father had to make the holsters for the pistols out of leather. They attached strings to it and I got a Hopalong Cassidy puppet for Christmas from Santa Claus. It was a prized possession. My mother says I put on a Hopalong Cassidy puppet show for my school class on one occasion. I don't recall that, but 18 she talked about it. At some point, the puppet lost its strings, but I still have the puppet. That is a prized possession that my parents made for me. ROH: What it must have been like to see that on Christmas morning. DA: I can't remember seeing it Christmas morning, but that puppet has been part of my life as far back as I can remember. My father was extremely talented at carving wood and did so until his mid to late 70's. At that age he developed an allergy to the sawdust in the wood, so he couldn't carve anymore. The last thing he carved was a covered wagon with eight horses pulling it, which I have in my house. It's a beautiful thing. After that, he decided to make bronzes. I have a good friend who is a professional artist who has made millions of dollars with his artwork. One day, I was going to have lunch with him and my dad asked me to ask him how to make a bronze sculpture. I did and my friend said, "Well, you make a skeleton out of wire or whatever and then you put the clay on it and once you put the clay on it you put it in the oven and bake it. When that is done, you take it to the foundry and it is cast by the foundry." That's as much as I told my father. He said, "Okay." He sat at the kitchen table with a pair of pliers, coat hangers, and a torch and he welded pieces of wire together to make a skeleton. Then, he used clay and made his figurines. He then put them in the oven and baked them before taking them to the foundry. He's done beautiful sculptures. His first sculpture is of two fighting elk. You may or may not have noticed in the foyer at Albion, there's an eagle perched on a limb. That's another one he made. This is all amateur, but they look 19 like professional pieces. He also created one of a cowboy that has roped a buffalo which resulted in the cowboy, horse, and the buffalo all being in trouble because they are all tangled together in the rope. Another one that I thoroughly enjoy is a pond with swans on the pond. It is a beautiful piece. ROH: How old was he when he started doing bronzes? DA: He was about 78. He died when he was 82. He would produce them and give them away. He could have made a living as an artist if he wanted to, but he didn't. He just did it as a hobby. ROH: Today is Monday, October 29, 2012, we are in the offices of Albion with DeWayne Ashmead and Rebecca Ory Hernandez from Weber State. When we were talking last week, you mentioned this really nice picturesque setting along the creek. DA: The Mill Creek. ROH: I wanted to pick up from where we left off there. DA: We moved to Kaysville to a rented home in 1955. I started the sixth grade at Kaysville Elementary School. It was interesting. I have thought about that several times and I don't know why one thing stands out in my mind. I had no friends until I went to school, so I was in the process of trying to make friends. We had our first recess and there were two boys in the class who were leaders. They were the top kids. I was a little skinny new kid on the block and when we went out for recess the boys all decided they wanted to play football. I had never played 20 football in my life. I didn't know how to play it or anything else, but one of these kids picked me to be on his team and that really made me feel good. He asked me what position I played and I said, "I don't know." He put me on the line and I promptly got knocked on my fanny the first time. I always respected that kid because he picked me and stood up for me at a time that I needed someone to do that. He didn't become a close friend, but throughout my junior high and high school days he was a kid that I looked up to. The sixth grade probably was a turning point in my life. My teacher was a man by the name of Elmer Wilcox, and he really liked science. He would take us on field trips. We went out to the Salt Lake and dug up crystals. He liked rocks so we collected rocks. He had a three stage microscope of his own that he brought to school to show us the invisible world. I became fascinated with that and for whatever reason, he took a liking to me and he would give me this microscope to take home on weekends. I was absolutely thrilled. I lugged this microscope in its wooden box home to look at things under the microscope. I studied all kinds of different things like water from the swamp or hair. I was just absolutely fascinated with it. Because of my interest, at Christmas my mother went to the University of Utah and purchased a three stage microscope from their surplus equipment. It was an old microscope, but it was still just like his as far as effectiveness was concerned. It was a professional microscope, not a toy. As the school year went on I became more and more interested in all of the aspects of science. I hadn't picked a single discipline. He fostered that and continued to encourage me in so many ways that he has always stood out in my 21 mind as one of the people who truly influenced me. When I entered the seventh grade, I went to Central Davis Junior high School in Layton. The science teacher at Central Davis at that point in time considered teaching science as just a job. He didn't really do much to encourage me or to help me with my scientific interests, but then my father started working with me. My father was deeply involved in the sciences and the fact that I was expressing interest in the same thing encouraged him to get involved with me. I wanted to enter a science fair in Utah and I decided that I would like to build a robot that was somewhat mobile that would speak through a record player by remote control. My father helped me build it and I won first place in the state. ROH: That sounds really ambitious for that age, how did you come up with that idea? DA: Actually, I read an article in Boy's Life scout magazine about a robot. It just intrigued me and I thought, "I want to do one like that." So, we did. In the eighth grade, I got more sophisticated and built a cloud chamber so I could see radiation particles from radium as they would go through an artificially created cloud. I won first place. I can't remember what I did in the ninth or tenth grade, but I won first place there. In the eleventh grade, I was working full-time at Albion while going to school full–time. I'll come back to that later. My father and I were collaborating on a drug to dissolve kidney stones and I had done a considerable amount of research on my own dissolving kidney stones in sheep. I presented my research on that and I won first place in the state and was subsequently sent to the national science fair with that research. Unfortunately, we drove to Seattle 22 where it was held and I had left part of my project at home and forgot it. The result was that I didn't do very well at nationals, but that's the way it goes. ROH: Did you participate in science fairs all the way through high school? DA: I did. I became known as, I guess in today's vernacular, a nerd. I was selected as the Sterling Scholar for science my senior year of high school in 1961-1962. I had a reputation for being quite intelligent and deeply involved in the sciences. Between Elmer Wilcox and my father, the two of them really fostered that love of science which continues to this day. ROH: Did you have any other friends that you would work on these projects together with? DA: I had friends, but none of these friends was as involved in the sciences as I. I didn't make friends easily. I was very shy and basically a loner. A lot of my research projects were too complex for kids to understand. They didn't see the value of them, so they would ignore me. ROH: Was that the end of your football career then? DA: In sixth grade? Absolutely. To this day, I really don't care for football. I shouldn't say that. I should say that I enjoy watching the game, but I am not passionate about it. ROH: It's really quite something to be that involved in science all through and it's no surprise then that you continued on into your career. You won lots of awards in high school and when you graduated as a senior, what did you do? 23 DA: I chased my girlfriend. ROH: You had a lot of girlfriends. DA: Well, I only had one that was important. That's the one I married. ROH: When did you meet Jill? DA: I met her as a junior in high school. We met in a history class because the teacher assigned us seats in history according to alphabetical order. I was the last "A" and she was the first "B" so she sat right behind me in history. She was a cute little girl, so I asked her for a date and she turned me down. I asked her for a second date and she turned me down. When I asked her a third time I figured, if she turns me down the third time I'll never ask her again. ROH: What were the dates? DA: I don't remember. I had a reputation of being a nonconformist in high school too. The fact that I'm science on the one side is one thing, but I went clear over on the other side because I was trying to fit in. I really didn't fit in anywhere in high school. She basically turned me down because of my reputation. The third time, she accepted. ROH: What reputation are we talking about? DA: I had the coolest car in school and I raced. I raced at the drag strips and I would race on the streets. You didn't ask me about that. ROH: Well, tell me about what you did for fun? 24 DA: I played with my car and still play with my cars. Finishing up with Jill though, the third time I asked her for a date she accepted and before we were out of our junior year in high school we wanted to get married. After that, we just continued to date through high school. I had several scholarships to various universities and she was going to go to Weber College, so I followed her to Weber rather than taking these other scholarships. Looking back, it was a good thing. ROH: So back to the car story. When did you get your license or were you driving before you got your license? DA: Oh yes. I started driving at about 13 or 14. I got my first car about a year before I got my license. I had a 1950 Mercury. I customized it, lowered it and put loud pipes on it. I got all sorts of tickets and generally not the same one twice. I raced that car. ROH: How did you buy your first car? DA: Actually, it was given to me. I got it from my parents. My parents bought this 1950 Mercury and had taken good care of it. It was really a good car and I probably destroyed it. I just thoroughly loved the car. I can remember one time, I wanted to leave high school early and the only way out at that time was through gates on the parking lot. They were locked during school hours so you couldn't leave school. On one of the exits there was a space between the pole that held the gate and another pole that was just wide enough to let the car slip through with about an inch or two on each side. My friend and I decided to leave school early one day by slipping through this space. That gate was between two 25 buildings. My car was so loud with the noise of the exhaust reverberating back and forth between these two buildings as we were trying to get out that it attracted everyone's attention. It brought every kid in the high school to the windows to watch us leave school. Shortly thereafter, they welded stakes perpendicular to the gate pole so I couldn't get out. I really liked the car. I liked cars because it gave me the freedom that I didn't have before. I went everywhere in that car. It was my whole life. I put over $1,000 into customizing the body, which in 1962 terms was a huge sum of money. I did a lot of the work myself and made a few mistakes, but I still enjoyed it. When I was a senior in high school in 1962, I decided I wanted a new car, so I went to the Oldsmobile dealer in Ogden and ordered a new car. I bought a 1962 Oldsmobile Cutlass in the last part of my senior year in high school. Jill and I dated in that car. Later, I sold it, but a few years ago when a car like it came up for sale I went and bought it just to try to recapture our youth. It didn't work, but Jill and I still enjoy putting the top down in that convertible and just driving. We still do it. Destroying the ozone layer is just a lot of fun because that's what we did when we were kids. We would drive up and down Washington Blvd and I would drag race anyone that wanted to drag race. I'd race on the streets and I would accelerate to about 80 miles an hour on Washington Blvd. ROH: Where on Washington Blvd.? DA: From stoplight to stoplight. Very rarely did I ever lose a race. I was a fast driver and had a reputation for always having a very fast car. 26 ROH: So that's why she was turning you down? DA: Yes. ROH: Are you still racing up and down Washington? Have I heard anything about you in the blotter? DA: No you have not. I haven't had a ticket for probably 25 years. ROH: Where do you ride now when you go for drives? DA: Generally on the back roads. The cars that I drive are very expensive and many of them are one of a kind, so people have a tendency to drive into me as they are looking at the car. So, I just avoid major highways and stay on the back roads where people don't see me. I drive for the sheer pleasure of driving and the experience of driving. With some of the cars you can put the top down and as you drive along you can smell the smells and hear the sounds and we just enjoy it. ROH: You loved science, cars and you obviously loved girls, one in particular. DA: That's right, one in particular. ROH: Jill is her nickname, so what was her maiden name? DA: Her real name is Eugele, which she hates and I love. I think it's a very pretty name. She was named for her uncle Eugene who was in the Second World War and not expected to come home. She was named Eugele Baird and nicknamed, Jill, which she prefers. 27 ROH: When did you and Jill get married? DA: That was in 1966. Probably didn't think I would remember that did you? ROH: I'm surprised you waited that long. DA: Well, you have to understand the dynamics. I followed her to Weber and we decided that we couldn't afford to get married and we should wait until both of us graduated from college. Jill was very religious, but I was not. She played better poker than I did. That's the way I describe it. She told me that she would not marry me unless we were married in the L.D.S. temple. I saw absolutely no reason to do that, but I would not be hypocritical about it and just go to the temple just to make her happy. We're all hypocrites, but for the most part I detest hypocrites. I started to study the Mormon Church to show her where she was wrong and why we didn't need to be married in the temple, and ultimately became converted myself. After I did that I went to her and said, "I think I need to go on an L.D.S. mission." She said, "Okay. You go and I'll wait." As luck would have it, I was called to go to France. The kids today go for 2 years and for part of that two year period they go into a very intensive training session where they learn the language. Back then, none of that training existed. If you went to a foreign country you went for two and a half years and the church figured it took you six months to learn the language and then you became effective. So, I went to France for two and a half years. ROH: What part of France? 28 DA: It was called the French Mission. I served in Paris, Bordeaux, Rennes, and Pau. Basically, the Western and Central part of France. ROH: That's pretty big territory. DA: Back then, there were only two missions in France. There was the French Mission and the French-East Mission. The French-East Mission covered Eastern France and the French speaking part of Switzerland. While I was there, they made the Franco-Belge Mission which was all of Belgium and the Northern part of France. Incidentally, that is where my youngest son went on his mission. I went to France for the two and half years and came home. I was determined to marry her as she was to marry me. Her parents didn't like the idea. They did everything they possibly could to persuade her to start dating boys while I was gone on my mission. She refused, and that created a lot of problems for her. She wrote me every day and would send the letter to me once a week. I would send her a letter every week. I would go without meals in order to save enough money so that by the time the two and a half years were over I had enough money to go to Belgium and buy a diamond ring for her. I designed it and purchased it. I came home in March of 1966. We were married in June and lived happily ever after. ROH: Where were you married? DA: We were married in the Salt Lake Temple, just like she said. It scared me to death. ROH: Did it? 29 DA: I was terrified. I tried to talk her out of it all the way to the temple. She wasn't about to listen to me. It was an off-handed way of talking her out of it, you know, "I'm too cool. I'm not going to back out," but I sure tried to talk her into backing out. I was terrified. I was also in a lot of pain. I had broken my foot the day before. ROH: How did you do that? DA: A plate glass mirror fell on it right across my foot and broke it. I refused to cast it because it would spoil her wedding pictures. So, I was in a lot of pain. ROH: Did you cast it after your wedding? DA: No. We left on our honeymoon and she did all the driving and I did all the moaning. ROH: Where did you honeymoon? DA: We went down to Bryce Canyon and I kind of hopped over the edge of the canyon and looked at it and said, "Okay, let's go." I was in too much pain, so we came home after a honeymoon for 3 days and I went back to work. ROH: All this time you were working for Albion, correct? DA: Yes. My father started Albion in 1956. He had previously been working for Pfizer and was in the line for the presidency of Pfizer. He was in senior management of Pfizer when he quit and came back to Utah where he started Albion. He had $250 and that's what he used to start Albion with. He had a concept that no one else had ever thought of and that was to sell veterinary pharmaceuticals to 30 farmers and ranchers. In 1956, if you had a sick animal, you would go to veterinarian and say, "Come look at my animal." He would look at it and you'd tell him what was wrong and then he'd sell you the drug at twice what he paid for it. What my father wanted to do while he was at Pfizer was to start selling these pharmaceuticals directly to the farmers and ranchers instead of going through the veterinarians. Pfizer refused to do that, so my father struck out on his own to show that it could be done. Well, the area that he envisioned was the Intermountain area in Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Arizona, and Nevada. He had to travel throughout that area calling on the farmers and ranchers because no one knew that such an outlet for veterinary drugs existed. He had a retail store between 24th and 25th Street on Grant Avenue in Ogden. It was ideally located because the drugs that he sold throughout the Intermountain area could be packaged at the store and then taken to the post office which was on the corner of 24th and Grant or to the bus depot which was on the corner of 25th and Grant. So the store was half a block either way. Because he was out selling, someone else had to package and ship these drugs. At the ripe old age of 12, I went to work. I took a commuter bus, which was the Lakeshore Bus Line that went between Salt lake and Ogden. I'd pick it up in Kaysville, ride the bus to Ogden to open up the store after school. I would take the orders my father had written, package them and take the packages to the post office or the bus. I'd close the store at about 7 or 8 at night, 31 get on the bus, go home, do my homework, and go to bed. From that point forward, I just worked there. When I was on my L.D.S. mission, my father wanted me to come back and join him full time at Albion when I completed my mission. I said, "No, I don't want to." We had a lot of negotiations by correspondence and ultimately I said, "Okay. I will come back, but I won't work for you. I will work with you, but I won't work for you. Furthermore, if I come back, I would expect you to sell me part of the company at fair market price because I would never want anyone to say you gave it to me. So, I'll buy it and if you'll meet those two conditions, I'll come back." He said, "Fine." So, I did and by the time I got home he had named me the Vice President of Albion which really sounded cool until you saw all the work I had to do. Shortly after returning, I married Jill and went back to school at Weber while still working full time. Prior to my mission I had majored in chemistry at Weber College. While I was on my mission, I realized that if I were a chemist I would have to work for someone else. But, if I were a businessman, I could hire all the chemists I wanted. So, I changed my major when I came back to Weber and majored in business. I concurrently worked full-time at Albion and traveled extensively which made it very difficult to go to school. My father and I divided the responsibilities. He took production and R & D and I took marketing and administration. Part of my job was taking Albion from a small regional company to a national and then international company, which I did while I was still going to school at Weber. 32 ROH: How long did it take you to go national and then international? DA: Relatively quickly, probably a year or two. I was traveling a lot. I remember one convention that I went to that happened to be in Colorado that still stands out in my mind. I flew into Denver and arrived in the early evening concurrently with a blizzard that hit Denver. I had to go up to Ft. Collins, Colorado, so I rented a car. That was a terrifying ride on the freeway because the road was all snowed in. I arrived there late at night. The next morning I got up and went to work. I spent all day on the convention floor assisting one of my customers. That night, the customer wanted to go out to dinner and invited me to go with the employees. I told them I couldn't go to dinner and went back to my hotel room to study for a test that I had to take the next day when I got back to Utah. It was hard, but it was okay. Jill was working at Red Cross, but then she had the audacity to get pregnant on our honeymoon and nine months later our son came. She was awfully sick during her pregnancy so she quit and the responsibility of taking care of my wife and my soon-to-be baby was mine in addition to going to school. After he was born, she would come over to the college at noon and bring me a sandwich that I would eat as we walked back to the apartment where I'd get in the car and head off to work. I'd work until 8 or 9 at night and come home. I was still an undergrad. So, I did that and graduated from Weber. ROH: What year did you graduate from Weber? 33 DA: I think it was 1969. I went on and got a doctorate from Pacific Institute that was chartered by the state of California to give doctorates for research. It was not an academic degree, it was a research degree. I got that and later I went back and got an academic Ph.D in nutrition from Donsbach University in California. They wanted me to attend classes there and I just didn't have the time. I negotiated a deal with them that as long as I could pass the tests, I wouldn't have to go to class. Although everything was done by mail back then, the experience was much like doing coursework online today. I suppose in some ways I was a pioneer in doing online education. I graduated with a 4.0 from Donsbach and just continued on. ROH: You never got a master's? DA: I never got a master's. I have often wanted an M.B.A., but I'm too old and I don't have the patience. I don't need it, but I would like one. The biggest thing is that I don't have the patience. I can remember even in my undergrad taking a class in advertising and the professor wanted us to advertise an imaginary product. At the time, I had started a small advertising agency while working at Albion. I don't sleep much. Anyway, I had developed a campaign for a product. I developed the whole campaign, so it was not cheating. I had done absolutely everything. I didn't have the time to do busy work on an imaginary product, so, I took what I had done and presented it to the class. It violated some of the principles he taught. He got his master's degree at the University of Utah and drove 40 miles to Weber where he spent the rest of his life. He never had any practical experience in advertising. He started criticizing me in front of the class and I remember that I 34 lost my temper. I told him that he didn't know his fanny from a hole in the ground and I laid out what this advertising campaign had done for the company. Well, he was embarrassed and angry and he gave me a "C". I deserved an "A" but he gave me a "C". He never forgot or forgave me. He had a reputation for pulling kids out of the line as they were graduating and would say, "You can't graduate." I don't know whether that was true or not, but I believed it. When I was graduating I took my cap and partially covered my face before turning my head so he couldn't see me as I marched by. I was afraid he'd pull me out of line. He also became my major professor and made me jump through hoops to graduate. It was just a miserable time. The only consolation was that after I graduated, Weber offered me a job to replace him when he died. I didn't take it, but they did offer it to me. In my senior year, I joined a business fraternity because I was led to believe that it was where you would make contacts and that would be good for business. It isn't, but I was led to believe that. On one occasion they had arranged for us to go to a bank to tour the building and interview the vice president. We went down to what was then Commercial Security Bank on 25th and Washington in Ogden. I can still remember talking to the vice president. One of the kids had the audacity to ask, "How much do you earn as a vice president of the bank?" He puffed up and said, "I earn 450 dollars a month." I said, "Well, I earn more than that as a student, why would I want to be a banker." He looked at me and said, "Well, we get to play a lot of golf." I've never learned how to play golf, so I missed out on that opportunity. 35 One last thing on Donsbach University I ought to mention. About 1980, when four of my kids were in school, they were complaining about school work and saying that I didn't understand what it was like to go to school now because I went back in the olden days. More than anything else, that is what pushed me to attend Donsbach. I wanted to prove a point to them. I enrolled and I graduated one year later with a 4.0. I would come home from work and take care of my fatherly duties until about 9:00 p.m. I would study from 9:00 p.m. to usually 1:00 a.m. I would get up at 6:00 a.m. and would study again until it was time to go to work, work all day and repeat that whole thing. As I said, I graduated with a 4.0, wrote my thesis and got that approved and everything within that one year. The only time I went to California as it related to Donsbach was to get my diploma when I marched through at commencement. My kids came with Jill and me to commencement and after I got my degree, I turned to my kids and said, "Don't you ever tell me that I don't know what it's like." After that there was never ever a discussion about going to school or anything else and all of my kids have graduate degrees. ROH: Tell me about your kids. How many children do you have? DA: Five or six depending on how you count it. That always bothers a lot of people when I say that. I count it as six, but I have five kids. The sixth kid—a Navajo woman gave me her daughter and said, "She's yours, you raise her." I raised her as my own. I never formally adopted her, but I raised her, educated her and sent her to college. She still calls Jill and me "Mom" and "Dad" and her kids call us 36 "Grandma" and "Grandpa." As far as I'm concerned, she is a daughter. My blood kids all accept her as a sister. She's just one of us. ROH: What is her name? DA: Her name is Laurice. My first child was Stephen, who came about nine months after we were married. My next child was Jilane. She got her name while I was still on my mission. Jill and some of her girlfriends were composing names for their future children at one of her parties and she composed a combination of Jill and DeWayne. She wrote me and told me that her first daughter was going to be named Jilane. Next was Brett. Then came Angelique Racquelle—very French. My last was Heidi. ROH: Are any of them working in the business? DA: Three of them are. All of them have worked here. By the time my kids turned 12 or 14 at the latest, they had to go to work. They had to pick and choose what school activities they were going to participate in because they had to work. By the time they were sixteen they had to buy all of their own clothes. At 14, they would be preparing the meals and helping work around the house. Besides working, they had to work around the house and do yard work, but they didn't get paid for it. For better or for worse, none of my kids ever got into trouble. They were too busy working and doing other things. They never got into drugs or anything. All of them are workaholics and every one of them has risen to the top of his or her profession. All of them have had the opportunity to work at Albion and three of them elected to stay. Stephen joined Albion full-time while he was 37 married and a student. Angelique joined Albion after she got her master's degree and became a CPA. She was recruited extensively by most of the national CPA firms in Utah. She was an outstanding student. She chose to come to Albion although I did not have anything to do with it. Albion had to compete with the CPA firms to get her. Brett got his MBA and joined Albion after that. Jilane is the head of the English department at a junior high school and also teaches. Heidi teaches creative writing at a high school as well as having started her own business. ROH: You have quite a large family now. Did they get to earn allowances when they were younger? DA: No. Working around the house is what they owed me for giving them life. After I got married, I hit the road and was gone probably 60 percent of the time or more. On one occasion, I wanted to put in a spur on my sprinkling system and Stephen had helped me repair our sprinkling system in the past. He was about 13 or 14 at the time. I told him, "I want you to run a spur off there. I'll be gone on a trip so you just do it." He did and it worked very well. I still use it today. Another occasion, I told him to run a spur off in another area which had to go underneath the sidewalk. I didn't tell him how to get underneath the sidewalk, which was my mistake. So, he took a sledge hammer and broke the sidewalk to put the spur in and we had to pour cement and redo the sidewalk. They were expected to work and work hard and they did. When they were out working, they worked as adults—period. I worked with them whenever I 38 could, but the money that they received is what they earned from their employment. They had to learn how to budget it. I did one thing when they turned 16, I gave each of them a credit card and warned them about getting into trouble with it. Everyone did and every one of them went through the pain and misery of having to pay it off because I wouldn't pay their debts. It taught them the use of credit as well. I remember my oldest son, Stephen, still had a debt and he wanted to go on an LDS mission. I wouldn't pay his credit card off, so he had to stay home for several months to earn enough money to pay off his debt before he could go. ROH: Did all of the kids go on missions? DA: No, just my two boys. ROH: Did they go to France as well? DA: Brett went to France and Stephen went to Arizona. His Arizona mission was Spanish-speaking so he had to learn Spanish. He had to speak completely in Spanish all the time. ROH: What part of Arizona? DA: It would have been the Southern part. Tempe was the mission headquarters, but he spent most of his time in the South dealing mostly with illegal aliens. ROH: Is there anything else you'd like to add about your kids? 39 DA: I'm proud of every one of them. They're all good kids. They married well and everyone is a productive member of society contributing to the betterment of society. I'm proud of them. They are just good kids. ROH: Can you tell me a little bit more about this daughter you raised from this Native American woman? How did that come about? DA: The Mormon church had a program in the earlier days called the Indian Placement Program where they would bring kids off the reservation, house them with Caucasians, and let them go to school in a better environment. The church was in hopes of bringing them out of poverty, alcoholism and things that are associated with the reservations. Laurice started in that direction with someone else. She was not doing well in the school program and was a "D" and "F" student. She was basically dropping out of the program and they talked her into coming back. I was just asked to take her because she was failing. I said, "Fine." I treated her just like one of my kids, my oldest daughter had moved out so Laurice had a bedroom to herself. Angelique was older than she and Heidi was younger than she and both were straight "A" students. One pulled and the other pushed Laurice. She went from "D's" and "F's" to straight "A's." When she graduated, she wanted to go back to the reservation. Her ambition was to get a couple of horses and ride them on the reservation. I said, "There's no way in the world I'm going to let you do that. You've got too much potential and you cannot do that." She said, "Well, this program is over." I said, "I know, but there's still no way I'm going to let you do that." Her mother had come 40 up to her high school graduation and she could not speak English, had no electricity in her Hogan and had no running water, yet she gave this girl a computer for graduation and gave her to me at the same time. She said, "Keep her." So I did. I sent her to Weber. In fact, the future president of Weber, Ann Milner, pulled strings to get her in because while she received "A's" while she was with us, there were "D's" and "F's" from before so she was not really a good candidate as far as the university was concerned. Ann pulled strings for me at my request. Laurice earned "A's" at Weber too. Ultimately, she married and has remained here in Utah. She's a good kid. She's got two kids that are straight "A" students too. In fact, I just got an email from her this weekend telling me about what was happening with her kids. ROH: How old are her kids now? DA: They're in junior high and high school. ROH: You raised wonderful children and some of them work here. I find it interesting that the other two work in English related fields similar to your mother. DA: Well, blame it on my grandfather. One of my grandfathers had an eighth grade education. The other graduated from the University of Utah and spoke Latin fluently. Both were farmers, but my grandfather that graduated from the University of Utah had the uncomfortable habit of correcting everyone's English. In fact, my father remarked that it got to a point with him that he refused to speak around my grandfather because his grammar was so atrocious. My grandfather passed his habit on to my mother and she was a stickler for grammar. She 41 passed it on to me and I passed it on to all of my kids. I don't correct people like my grandfather did, but I would correct my children and I expected them to speak properly. I also passed on to them a love for books. I've got a room that is probably about a third the size of this office that is a formal library with bookcases that are perpendicular to the wall going floor to ceiling. I have thousands and thousands of books in there and I encouraged my children to read and to read the classics. We would talk about them and they love books. All of my kids are voracious readers and whenever I had the time and was in town, I would correct my children's written compositions when they were in school. I even did it when they went to college. Speaking correctly is important and they passed it on. It was my grandfather's fault. ROH: What was your grandfather's name? DA: Rupert Morrill. ROH: Today is November 26, 2012, we are picking up oral history with DeWayne Ashmead in his office with Rebecca Ory Hernandez. DeWayne, you were getting ready to tell me about a funny story. DA: In the early 1970's, we needed to establish some of our products nationwide. I went out and lectured and worked with a customer and his customers for about six months. I would leave on Sunday and come back on Saturday and turn around and do it again for about six months straight. I just worked very hard. One of the companies I was working for was in the Midwest. On one occasion, I flew 42 into Chicago and a company man picked me up in the middle of a terrible snow storm. In the Midwest, the snow drifts. We went to one place where I was scheduled to speak that had 250 people committed and not one person showed up. So, we went to the next town where we were going to do this again, but on the way we were going down the road and the snow drifted. It was 10 or 12 feet high on one side of the road and the department of transportation had only cleaned off one lane. We were going down this lane and a Volkswagen came toward us. The guy I was with wouldn't slow down. I said, "Buck, you need to slow down." He said, "No, it's my road." At the last minute, the driver in the Volkswagen realized he was not going to move off the road and the Volkswagen dove for the snow drift and was just buried. I said, "Buck, you've got to stop and help." He said, "Hell no, he was in my side." So, he kept right on going. I couldn't get him to stop. We got to a Holiday Inn that evening and there were so many travelers stranded that everyone was required to share a room with someone else. I was the only person in the entire hotel that had a room to myself. It was so bitterly cold that I turned the heater up in the room as high as it would go and took all the blankets off the other bed and put them on my blanket and it was still freezing. The next morning, I got up and snow had drifted underneath the door about two feet into the room. It was so cold it had broken all the pipes so there was no hot water. We turned around and went right back to Chicago and everyone went home. That was one of the 1970's storms. In spite of the storm, this form of promotion and speaking was a good experience. In six months, we went from 43 zero to $3 million in sales with only one product. It was an iron product for pigs. I can tell you all about pigs. I know a lot about them. I like to work with pigs in research. They are very similar to human beings. They have the same metabolism, so if it works on a pig it will work on a human or vice versa. I applied a lot of what I learned with pigs to human beings as we developed nutritional programs for humans. ROH: Tell me a little bit about the company and the kinds of product that you offer. DA: The company grew and as it did we started manufacturing vitamin and mineral supplements for animals. Ultimately, it became the largest manufacturer of vitamin and mineral supplements in the United States. We were manufacturing for lots of different companies, but never under the Albion name. Instead, the products went private label for other companies. Albion also started manufacturing veterinary pharmaceuticals and became the largest manufacturer of veterinary pharmaceuticals west of the Mississippi. All of these things were very price-sensitive and we were looking for other things to do that were less price-sensitive. One of the things we did that I got involved in at the age of 16 or 17, was help develop a drug that dissolved kidney stones. We got a patent on it and my father is named in the patent. I'm not named in the patent, but I did a lot of the research primarily with sheep. We got Food and Drug Administration approval to market this product in certain species of animals and it was a very successful product. It really started to make Albion. The drug operated due to the principle of 44 chelation, which is a chemical term describing how a chelating agent will grab a mineral and hold that mineral. In the case of this drug, it would hold the mineral so tightly in the urine that the mineral could not combine with other substances to form a stone. The animal would then eliminate the mineral as a chelate in the urine as it voided its bladder. We did a lot of research with humans as well, but never got an FDA approval for human use. We became experts in the science of chelation. Along the way, we noticed that the animals were not efficiently absorbing the minerals that were being provided in these vitamin and mineral supplements that the company was also making. We could pick up those same minerals in the manure. So the question was: why aren't the animals absorbing these minerals? Albion has always had the reputation for high quality, so we wanted minerals that would absorb. We learned that for the animal to absorb a mineral, such as iron sulfate, it had to take the iron and tear it away from the sulfate. The iron then had to be chelated by amino acids that came from the digested protein in the food. The amino acids would bind the minerals and basically form an organic molecule, which the animal could then absorb. If you look in your body or the animal's body, there are no inorganic minerals other that in the bones and teeth. They're all organic molecules. When we discovered that the animals had to create these organic mineral molecules in their stomachs and intestines, we said, "Well, why don't we pre-chelate them?" No one knew how to do that, so it took a lot of research. I was deeply involved in doing the research and we developed minerals that were 45 bound to these amino acids as chelates prior to ingestion. We were awarded patents on them. Today, we have about 150 patents on this type of product. When we gave these amino acids to the animals, we expected to see greater absorption. We were surprised when the performance of the animal also changed. They grew faster, had better feed conversion, less morbidity, less mortality and better reproduction efficacy. We suddenly discovered that we had opened a whole new area of nutrition. Over time, we eliminated the veterinary supply business at Albion, eliminated the vitamin and mineral supplement division, got rid of the pharmaceutical production and focused exclusively on production of amino acid chelates. We introduced these amino acid chelates to the human nutrition market in about 1968. By 1970, it was pretty much established. The animal nutrition market was before that in the earlier 1960's. That business was what I was trying to establish when I was traveling early on in my career. In 1975, we entered the agricultural market and started selling amino acid chelates for plant use. So, it was plants, animals, and man. We built on all three fronts and it was difficult because we didn't have sufficient money. My father was a product of the depression and he did not like borrowing money. He did, but it was hard for him to borrow money. Consequently, we built the whole the thing out of our profits. We still do that for the most part today. We can borrow millions and millions of dollars, but I refuse to let the company do it. We're qualified, the banks say we can borrow all the money we want, but we just don't. We paved the way in human nutrition. I remember in the 1970's the FDA decided that the amino 46 acid chelates were a new product class that was not approved, so they started seizing products made by other companies that were trying to copy Albion. No one made them the way Albion did, but that's been the marketing program for competitors from the very beginning, "We're just like Albion, but cheaper." Anyway, the FDA seized those products from the other company and we could see the writing on the wall that eventually they would get around to Albion. We decided to be proactive and sue the FDA in federal court. We said, "Our chelates are safe and effective. You prove they aren't." The FDA looked at our data and signed a consent decree saying they agreed that Albion products are safe and effective. We became the only chelated product that was approved by FDA to be on the market. It made sense to sue the FDA at the time, because if we had gone the traditional route the FDA could take 180 days to look at something and they could ask a question which we would answer. Then it was another 180 days. They could delay approval for years and in the meantime, we would have been out of business. By suing them in federal court, we forced them to look at our data immediately and make a decision immediately because it's in the court. Today, we still continue to focus on these amino acid chelates. During the recession of 2008, we sold the animal division. It was a hard thing to do emotionally, but it was the right thing to do business-wise. So, we sold it to another company, but we still manufacture the chelates for them. We're still in the business, but not under the Albion label. That's gone, but we still do the human and plant products under the Albion label. ROH: Tell me about how you've impacted the agricultural system internationally. 47 DA: Going to business school, I learned that the worst recession to occur since the great depression in 1956 was the year Albion started. When I learned about that I went to my dad and said, "Why did you start a company in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression?" He looked at me and said, "Recession? I didn't know there was a recession, I just knew it was damn tough." That was always my father's attitude, just plow ahead and forget all the problems or the reasons why you can't do something. Just go do it. We continue to do that today to a degree. Anyway, I took the marketing side of it and I went across the United States and built a national chain of outlets for the human and for the animal divisions. If you remind me I'll come back to the human, we did something that I think was quite clever. I started looking internationally and I started going to Europe first with the animal products for some countries followed by the human products. We started getting customers, suppliers and building up the business. One of the biggest ways to sell a product was to stand up in front of a group of people and tell them why these products were good and let them take shots at you. The scientists would and I would answer their questions and convince them. We went throughout all of Europe and established markets there. I spent a lot of time in Europe which is one of the reasons why I don't particularly care whether I go back now or not. I've seen all of Europe that I want to see. We did that and it was primarily building up the animal and human sales. I established human sales in South America using Brazil as my center of influence and in Central America using Guatemala as my center of influence and spreading out. 48 ROH: Is there a reason for those particular countries? DA: At the time, Brazil was the very best country for economic development of any country in South America. Even to his day, Brazil, Argentina and Chile are really the best countries in South America. They've got stable governments now and economically they're in pretty good shape. One of the things I refuse to do is deal in other currencies. I deal in U.S. dollars. A lot of these countries don't have the dollars. I never was able to truly establish the animal business in Central or South America primarily because they fed their animals differently than what we did in Europe or in the United States. Most of the animals are grass fed, not supplement fed and Albion products go into supplements. So, that didn't work very well, but we established our agricultural division with our chelates for plant use in South America and Central America and it has grown extensively there. At one time, I knew more presidents of countries on a personal level than did the president of the United States. I would be at their homes. For example, one of the presidents of Panama, President Royo, would invite me to his home and he and I would play baseball with his son and my son out on his front lawn. This is the man that Noriega put a gun to his head and said, "I'll give you one of two choices. Either you resign or I pull the trigger. Which do you want?" One of my other friends was President Anwar Sadat. We started to develop the agricultural area in Egypt. When Jimmy Carter was president he brokered the peace accord between Israel and Egypt. Anwar Sadat had promised his people that if he could get peace with Israel, he would take some of the money that he had been spending on defending the border between Israel and Egypt, and grow 49 food for the Egyptians. Well, they got the peace, so he called me and a few others to come to Egypt and help him set up agricultural programs that would fulfill his promise. I went to Egypt to meet with him and did surveys in Egypt to determine what needed to be done. He wanted to put American technology to work in Egypt, so I said, "What I'm going to tell you, I'm philosophically opposed to, but it's the only way you can do it." In Egypt, the father would divide his farm between the sons, who would divide the farm between their sons. The average Egyptian farm is one quarter acre in size. I said, "You need to go into a village and say, "Okay, all of you are going to grow cotton." Go to the next one and say, "All of you are going to grow beans." You will have to dictate what they do and then you can bring the American technology and the large equipment into Egypt in order to get your economies in scale. Unless you do that, there's no way that you can do it and bring American technology in." He agreed with me and started to set up the programs I had outlined before he was assassinated. Mubarak didn't care about his people the way Sadat did. He hadn't made the promise and he wasn't about to spend money on something like that, so he shut the project down. On one occasion, I told Mubarak that I could eradicate iron deficiency and anemia, which was the single biggest disease in Egypt. I even offered to guarantee in writing that I would eradicate it and it would cost him 34 cents per person per year. He said, "No, that's too much money, we don't care." So, it didn't happen. From that we expanded into the Middle East and had offices in Beirut and worked in Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, and Lebanon. 50 ROH: Is this mostly animal? DA: This was the agricultural, plant division. It was growing bit by bit. One story I was going to tell you—a human story. Originally, when I set up the human business in the United States, it was through distributors. We would manufacture the chelates for nutritional companies and they would put their labels on our products and offer them for sale, but they wouldn't really go out and promote the products. They would offer them for sale as part of their entire product line. If the store wanted our products they would order them. The stores didn't purchase our products very often because they didn't know anything about them. I needed to go out and promote the chelates, but I didn't have any money to do it. I started another company called Rhondell, which was a division of Albion, but on the surface it looked like it was a separate company. It sold nothing but chelates to the customers of our customers. In other words, it was a competitor to our customers. Its mandate was to go out and sell these chelates and break even. I didn't care if Rhondell didn't make profit. They wanted to sell them at a lesser price than their competitors, but I didn't let them. They were always more expensive than the competition, but they sold chelates, talked about the chelates and advertised the chelates. Suddenly, the entire nutrition industry in the United States was abuzz with chelates. They'd come to Albion and say they want amino acid chelates that could compete with this Rhondell Company. We established the amino acid chelates in the in the marketplace and after they were established and everyone knew about them, I killed Rhondell. It never cost me anything to introduce and promote the products. 51 ROH: If one would have heard about chelation of blood for example, is that the same product? DA: No. There is a process called chelation therapy and I think that's what you're referring to. Chelation therapy is taking a synthetic chelate like EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, and injecting it into the blood stream. The theory is that if you have atherosclerosis or arteriosclerosis you have formed a calcium deposit in the blood vessels. The EDTA would come in and chelate the calcium in the blood and hold it so tightly that the body couldn't tear it away. The EDTA, being foreign to the body, would then be dumped into the urine and take the calcium with it. However, EDTA doesn't know the difference between calcium, iron, zinc, magnesium, etc., so it would chelate all of them. This could cause health problems. I was very critical of this except when it was done in a hospital. A lot of doctors were just doing Chelation Therapy in their offices and there were several people that died as a result. In fact, the pioneer of chelation therapy, Rudolf Alslaben, who was an acquaintance of mine, lost his license to practice medicine because he accidently killed a person with EDTA injections. Chelation Therapy was originally used for lead poisoning and done in the hospital. It's still done in the hospital for lead poisoning, but it can be very dangerous for treatment of atherosclerosis or arteriosclerosis. That type of chelation therapy is to get rid of minerals from the body. What Albion is doing is trying to get minerals into the body. 52 ROH: Tell me a little bit about your company today. What is the focus? DA: I guess today you'd have to ask others what they see. I'm a has-been. Today, the company is growing very rapidly. We have plans in place to expand the sales significantly in the days to come. I still hold the position of president and chairman of the board, but I am really not much involved in the day-to-day activities. We've got a good management team in place. They are working hard and are much younger than I am and have more energy. They're smart so they do it. My oldest son, Stephen, is involved. He is the heir apparent. My daughter Angelique is involved. She is the CPA and has a master's degree in accounting as well as a master's degree in computer science. She is a candidate for the CFO. My other son is over purchasing internationally, and has just been promoted to the chief operations officer for the company. These are Board appointments. I didn't have anything to do with them. We have outside people as well. We've got outside attorneys and the chief executive officer is not a family member. It makes a good team and they are all working hard. They do a good job, so I just let them go. ROH: Will the focus remain as you intended? DA: No, the focus doesn't remain as I intended because the situation changes and if I were to continue to go exactly the way I saw it ten years ago, we'd be out of business. We have to adapt. For example, I did not like the idea of selling the animal division. That pulled on my heartstrings because that's where Albion started. I worked hard to develop that business. If I had followed my emotions, 53 we would have never gotten rid of the animal division, but it was still the right thing to do. It was advocated initially by the CEO, Jim Hyde, as the right thing to do and as I analyzed his rationale. I agreed with him, but I didn't like it. So, in the future will we be exactly the same as we are today? No. We'll still adapt, modify and grow. We plan to be around another 50 years. ROH: The company is just one of these little secrets that we have here in our neighborhood. DA: Well, it is because our market is not in Utah. We live in Utah because we want to be in Utah. My kids had no idea who I really was or that I could walk into Anwar Sadat's home and be his friend, or walk into other famous people's homes and call on people around the world. They had no idea that outside of Utah I was quite famous. That was on purpose. I just wanted them to think of me as "Dad" and they did. Outside of Utah we are better known. ROH: How do you want to be remembered? DA: I don't care if I am. There are those that want to have buildings named after them and institutions named after them. I don't care about that. I really don't. I want my children to remember me and my grandchildren to remember me for what I stood for, what I was, and who I was and not what I've accomplished in a material sense. ROH: You're a very giving person, so I don't know if you're willing to talk about this on the record or not, but you've made some significant contributions to a lot of 54 different groups in the community, so tell me a little bit about your involvement with giving to Weber State. DA: As I told you earlier, I was working full-time and going to school full-time. For several years after I graduated I didn't have anything to do with Weber. I wasn't unhappy with Weber. I got a good education. I just didn't have anything to do with Weber. Then, Paul Thompson became president of Weber and had a focus that was different than previous presidents. I knew the previous presidents and still do and we visit from time to time. Anyway, Paul Thompson came into my office and talked with me about Weber and kind of sucked me in. I started paying attention to Weber and Paul asked me to be on the National Advisory Council, and that went on for a while. One day, Paul made a presentation at Weber about single parents that were struggling to get through school and how difficult it was. It really touched me, so Jill and I talked about it and we decided that we would start helping these single parents. We didn't care what their majors were or what the sex was, we would just help them. We started doing that and it just grew from there. ROH: You've served on lots of other boards as well, I'm sure. DA: I was asked to serve on the advisory board for the Goddard School of Business and Economics and I did that for several years. Ann Milner asked me to serve on the advisory council for the Health Professions, so I did that and continue to do that. They're trying to decide what they're going to be when they grow up and are having a hard time right now defining their objectives. That's not going very well 55 right now. The Arts & Humanities are talking to me about serving on that board. I haven't said yes, but I haven't said no we are just talking. I do that in addition to the National Advisory Council. I also serve on a board at the University of Utah, the board of the McKay Dee Hospital and the board of the YMCA. That is in addition to the boards of Albion. I also serve in a leadership position in my church. ROH: You've lectured I'm sure. DA: I have taught a few classes at Weber in business as well as the health sciences. I've done the same thing at the University of Utah and sit on a couple of advisory boards there too, but my heart really is with Weber. So, we just continue to go forward. ROH: You're being very modest. You also received an honorary doctorate degree from Weber. DA: Yes I did. ROH: What was that process like? DA: Well, you have to be nominated by someone else. I was nominated by someone, but I really don't know who. Carol Bittle came to me and said, "We need to put together a CV." So I helped her put it together and she submitted it to the selection committee and they said, "There's no way we're going to give him anything." Actually, they did turn it down. They didn't like what she had done, so she came back a second time and said, "We need to improve this." So, I did what 56 she asked and she re-submitted it and they selected me for an honorary doctorate. It's really significant from several points of view. My mother was still alive at the time and it really touched her and was really important to her. My mother had a doctorate from the University of Utah and my late father also had a doctorate. I had a doctorate from another institution, but this meant a lot to her to be honored that way. There was one other honor that I received that meant a lot to her and it was gratifying to receive. I was recognized as entrepreneur of the year by Ernest and Young. ROH: That's significant, DeWayne. DA: You think so? It was kind of neat. They came in and did a lot of interviewing and taping of the interviews with me and others that were being nominated. We went to a banquet and no one knew who was going to be honored. I really didn't want to go, but I went and I was awarded the recognition. ROH: Congratulations. DA: Thank you. ROH: Are there any other significant accomplishments connected to the company that you might want to mention? DA: I suppose one thing that is important is that I've authored eleven technical books on chelation. Some of them have been used as university textbooks. The most recent was published this year, 2012. It is a very defining book. It describes how a chelated mineral is absorbed into the intestinal cell, then into the bloodstream 57 and from the bloodstream into the cells of the body. I have been told that the research is Nobel Prize winning material. ROH: What's the title of the book? DA: It's called, Chelated Mineral Nutrition in Animals and Humans. ROH: Who is the publisher? DA: CRC Press, which is one of the major scientific presses in the United States. That made me feel good. I don't think there's another book in me like that. ROH: You don't think so? DA: Not like that. ROH: Except for the one you're writing about your father. DA: Well, that's a little different. When I started to write the last book on chelates, I got it about half done and had to go in for open heart surgery to correct a congenital problem. I thought, "Well, when I come out of surgery I'll be recovering for a while and I'll finish the book." I found that I couldn't even think for months. So, the book sat unfinished and when I picked it up to finish it, I couldn't remember what I had written so I had to start all over again and rewrite the book. So, it was about a three year process. The book went through about 23 drafts before I was satisfied with what it said. ROH: Goodness. DA: I then submitted it to the publisher. 58 ROH: So, you didn't mention the heart business earlier on, did you use any of your nutritional technology in recovering from your heart surgery? When did that happen? DA: Three or four years ago. I've known about this congenital defect, my valve would not close. When they got into my heart they also found that I had a hole in my heart that was congenital. The valve wouldn't close which on one hand was pretty good because it kept me out of Vietnam. I never wanted to go to Vietnam. It didn't really bother me, but for several years I was consulting a cardiologist just watching it because as I got older I recognized that this problem was going to manifest itself more and more. On one occasion, in the summer, we were doing a Concore d'Elegance— a car show where we brought cars in from all over the United States. I was involved in the management of this show and people that were on the organizing committee kept dropping balls and I kept picking them up. Pretty soon, I was juggling all the balls. By the time the show occurred in August of that year, I was absolutely exhausted. After the show was over, my wife and I decided to go on this little vacation and when we got to Colorado in the high country I couldn't breathe. She wanted to put me in a hospital and I refused to go to the hospital. I sit on the board of a hospital, I know what hospitals are like. We came back to Utah and I went to see the cardiologist. He said, "It's time." So, I went in for surgery. The cardiologist as well as the heart surgeon said, "Other than the fact that you have the congenital problems, you're really as healthy as anyone I've ever operated on. However, this is pretty serious business." The cardiologist told 59 me that I had less than a 50 percent chance of living through the surgery. The surgeon said, "I'm going to guarantee that you'll wake up, I just won't guarantee where. So, get all of your "T's" crossed, "I's" dotted and take care of all of your personal affairs because you may not make it." I did and went in for surgery and I did just about die. I was within two or three minutes of dying. They missed a bleeder and I about bled to death. They went through five or six pints of blood. ROH: Where did you have the surgery done? DA: McKay-Dee Hospital. North of Salt Lake, McKay-Dee is probably one of the best heart hospitals in the state. There are probably surgeons as good in Salt Lake, but I had a personal relationship with the ones at McKay-Dee and they were good too. They are nationally recognized, so it was okay. ROH: How are you feeling now? DA: Ornery. ROH: Good, you're back to your old self. DA: There you go. I feel fine. ROH: It must have scared your family though, and your business colleagues as well. DA: I think it probably did. They watched over me pretty carefully. My son wouldn't let anyone come in to see me. People from work would try to come and see me and he'd stand guard and just wouldn't let them come in. It was touch and go for a while. 60 ROH: You're doing great now, so what are your plans for the future? DA: Just more of the same. I have no intention of retiring. I like to work. If I were to retire, what would I do? I don't really have anything I want to do full-time other than work. As I said, I sit on the board of University of Utah, Weber, the hospital, and the YMCA. I'm happy doing what I'm doing. ROH: We talked a little bit about that last time. How many cars do you have now? DA: I don't know. See, if I don't know then I can honestly say in front of my wife, "I don't know." ROH: Is it more than 50? DA: More than 50. ROH: Should I stop there? DA: Probably. It's approximately 60 cars, but I really don't know. ROH: What is your favorite? DA: I don't have a favorite. That's like asking, "Who's your favorite kid?" The cars are primarily sports cars and performance cars. I have three criteria for a car. One, it's got to be a sports car, but I can make anything into a sports car. I can rationalize lots of things. For example, I have a 1966 Pontiac GTO and this Pontiac GTO raced the Ferrari GTO and beat it. If the Ferrari is a sports car, then the Pontiac must be a sports car because it beat the Ferrari. I rationalize it. Then, 61 it has to be rare or unique. I have a lot of cars that are the only one ever built. Third, I just have to like it. ROH: You love sports cars and you love art. Do you have any other hobbies? DA: Well you said, "Anything else?" I was going to say, "I love my wife." ROH: Of course, we know you love your wife and your family and your company. DA: I like genealogy. I do genealogical research. I wrote a book about my family tracing the Ashmead's back to 1530 up to 1968 which was the death of my grandfather. My father asked me not to write about him while he was alive, so I respected that and now I'm doing it. That book was published. My manuscript was about 1,600 pages and I had to go to a professional editor and have the editor pare it down to about 1,100 pages. I couldn't do it because everything I said was important, so the editor had to determine what was not important enough to put in the book. I published that, which was kind of a fun thing. It's in most genealogical libraries and major historical collections. ROH: We know you've met lots of important people throughout your life as well. Is there any particular meeting with a head of state or anyone in general that stands out in your mind? DA: There were three most significant events in my lifetime as far as I'm concerned. One was in 1957 with the launching of Sputnik by the Soviet Union. That was a major thing for me. Another was in 1963 when Kennedy was assassinated. The thing that really impacted me from a different point of view was when Dr. 62 Christian Barnard did the first heart transplant. That has always stood out in my mind as a major accomplishment. It was one of the most phenomenal things that had ever happened. Dr. Barnard, years later in the 1990's, read my published research. He was so impressed with it that he decided to come and see if I was really for real. He got on a plane and flew from South Africa to Salt Lake to meet me and we became good friends. Meeting Chris Barnard was one of the highlights of my life. He never looked at himself as being that spectacular and he'd say, "It was just another operation." For me, it was phenomenal. I've counted Chris Barnard as one of my good friends. He came to Utah several times and I went to South Africa several times. Ultimately, he was at a swimming pool in Greece when he had an asthmatic attack and didn't have his inhaler with him and died. I've always looked back at Chris Barnard as probably one of the more important people that I have met. ROH: What piece of your research was it that he read? DA: It wasn't a piece, it was the whole thing. He read the whole philosophy. Keep in mind, I have published about 250 magazine articles and 60 or 70 peer reviewed journal articles. I don't know what pieces he picked up, or if he read all of it. Somewhere in there he read it and after his first visit to Utah he called a press conference and said, "I'm going to spend the rest of my life promoting the concepts of Dr. Ashmead." ROH: How long did he stay when he came to visit? 63 DA: About a week. One of the things I did was organize a private dinner for him and all of the employees at Albion so they could all have dinner with Chris Barnard. I still remember one of the employees being so overwhelmed being in his presence that she just broke down in tears and just sobbed. When I opened China with the animal products, I went to China and was the first American to lecture in China following the closure of the borders by Mao. I lectured in Gaungzhou (Canton) at the university. My host for that was a professor that had been educated in the United States had gone back to China. During the Cultural Revolution, he was a ditch digger. After Mao died and China started to reinvent itself, he became a professor again at the university. He served as my translator and I lectured all morning. Somewhere around noon or 1:00 p.m., I quit lecturing and we broke for lunch. We went somewhere for lunch and when we came back, the lecture hall was filled with the same people. I turned to my host and said, "How did they know how long I was going to be gone for lunch because I had no idea where we were going?" He said, "They didn't know. They dared not leave for fear that they would miss something that you said. These people in the audience are all university professors and they have traveled from all across China to hear you. Some of them traveled for several days just to get here." That was very touching. I said, "I want you to arrange a banquet. I'll pay for it. I want to feed all of them while they're here." We did and it was an interesting banquet. I went around and toasted every table because they were all in the round tables. Since I don't drink they thought it was really funny the way I toasted them, but I did. One waitress lost her job because she didn't 64 give me the pigeon head, which was reserved for the most important person at the banquet. She gave it to someone else. I assured them it was perfectly fine, but she still lost her job. Later, I couldn't get the group at the banquet to go home. They sat there and sat there. Finally, I turned to my host and asked, "How do we get them to leave?" He said, "Well, you've got to excuse them. You go stand at the door and they'll get up and shake your hand and leave." I stood by the door and they all shook my hand. The old professors before Mau would bow and shake my hand and the young professors that were trained during Mau's time were ram-rod stiff, but would still shake my hand. It was a very touching thing to have professors from China come to Gaungzhou just to hear me speak. ROH: Is there anything that people might be surprised to know about you? DA: Well, if they couldn't see me on the camera I could say that I'm really good looking, but they can see me on the camera. I think that I have a lot of interests and when I focus on an interest I can become very focused on it. There are things that depending on which part of my life you're in, you would not know about the other parts of my life because I really focus on that single aspect when I'm there. We haven't talked much about it, and I won't talk much about it, but I'm really very religious and that is extremely important. I'm deeply involved in the LDS church and have been in a leadership position most of my life and continue to do so. If you saw me in a church setting, then I'm very religious and I hope it 65 translates into other aspects of my life. I hope that I still maintain that religious integrity. ROH: I think it does. I don't think people would be surprised by that. DA: That's important. If you deal in cars, I am really involved in cars and I am an expert in cars. I judge car shows all over the United States because I'm an expert. I am a master judge at these shows. If you talk about Albion, you can go one of two ways in the company. I'm a businessman and I really am a businessman. We have built an international business because of the work that I started and its now being carried on by others. I'm also a scientist and I am considered a good scientist and am well-known in the scientific circles for what I do. So, you've got those too. If you talk about art collections, I can get involved there. There are all of these different aspects of my life and if you only see one of these aspects, then I think you would be surprised at the others as you came to know me. My kids used to laugh at their friends because they would say, "Your dad is so serious and so strict." My kids would say, "You don't know my dad. He's got a great sense of humor and he's a tease." I am, but what these kids were seeing was one of my sides, not all of my sides. Whereas, my kids would see the other sides and know me differently. I don't know if that answers it. ROH: It certainly does—science and art, cars, and religion. Is there anything else that I haven't asked that you were hoping or expecting that I'd ask you? 66 DA: Not really. I would want it known that my wife is very important to me. She and I have been sweethearts since the age of 16 and at that ripe old age we wanted to get married. We waited until we were 22. We've been sweethearts forever and in three more years we will celebrate our 50th anniversary. She has been by my side the entire time. In the early days of Albion, she helped. She never got paid, but she worked at Albion. She saw the struggles and never once complained about my traveling. She never complained about my church work when I was at home. I would come home from work and immediately go do church work until late at night and she never once complained right up to the present. Yesterday, I left about 7:00 in the morning and came home about 6:00 at night and she didn't say anything. I appreciate that. She did a great job with raising our children. We've got five fantastic kids that were never in trouble and all of them educated. We've also got eighteen grandkids. I attribute that to my wife, not me. She's been my partner, my sweetheart, everything and that's more important than anything I've got. ROH: Thank you so much, DeWayne. We appreciate the time you took in sharing your story. I really appreciate your time. DA: You're welcome.

Not Available ; Strategies for Doubling Farmers' Income in Rainfed Regions of the Country Rainfed agriculture with nearly 53 per cent of the cultivated area contributes to 40 per cent of country's food production. Nearly 83% of the area under pulses, 85% of the area under coarse cereals, 70% of the area under oilseeds and 42% of the area under rice is rainfed. Rainfed regions are home to about 40% of the human and 60% of the livestock population and the performance of rainfed agriculture is critical to achieve and sustain higher growth in agriculture, enhance incomes and improve livelihoods. The productivity of several rainfed crops is around 1 t/ha and the adoption and diffusion of key rainfed technologies is still low resulting in large yield gaps between research stations and farmers' fields. Decline in the size of the holdings, continuous and unabated land degradation, widespread nutrient deficiencies, increasing climatic variability and climate change poses new challenges in the form of deficit rainfall, droughts and floods impacting the productivity and profitability. Besides, large livestock population inhabiting the rainfed regions require nutrient rich fodder and the demand and supply of fodder is widening. By 2025, the deficits will be to the tune of 65% in case of green fodder and 25% in case of dry fodder. The real incomes of the farmers are declining due to growing labour and input costs. In order to achieve doubling of farmers' income, besides meeting food and nutritional security of the growing population, enhancing the productivity of crops as well as an accelerated growth of livestock, fishery and horticulture sub-sectors will be required in rainfed areas. The short-term strategy would be deployment of location specific proven rainfed technologies depending on the resource endowments for bridging the yield gaps, cropping intensification in medium to high rainfall regions with appropriate water harvesting and efficient use, diversification of agriculture at farm level. Emphasis on strengthening of the farming system and enhancing income from livestock component, focus on market intelligence and dissemination of market information is key for enhancing income at farm. Upscaling of climate resilient integrated farming system modules with diversifying enterprises with high farm income is an essential strategy particularly for small and marginal farmers. The medium term strategy would be on high value crops and commodities including horticulture, protected cultivation of high value crops, value chain development for rainfed crops, capacity building of communities on market intelligence, skill up-gradation towards value addition, cost minimization by way of establishment of farmers producers groups, and risk minimization by way of providing access to water and insurance. For long-term sustainable agriculture, building Dr. K. Sammi Reddy soil organic carbon and promotion of application of organic manures and crop residues with reduced tillage to improve soil health is needed. These strategies have to be implemented in a system mode in association with all the relevant stakeholders so as to establish scalable and evidence based models for doubling of income for various rainfed agro-ecosystems in the country. The action plan need to be implemented in a mission mode pattern by DAC&FW and State line departments by converging with ongoing Central (PMKSY,PMPKVY, MGNREGA, RKVY, PMFBY, etc) and State (eg. Krishi Bhagya program of Karnataka, PantaSanjivani of Andhra Pradesh, PoCRA of Maharashtra, drought management program of Odisha, TSMIP of Telangana etc) programs. This may require adequate fund allocation and manpower. The focus should also be on capacity building/skill development of all relevant stakeholders at various levels. ICAR-CRIDA along with network partners through AICRPDA, AICRPAM, NICRA and SAUs would contribute for implementing the mission mode program through technical backstopping. K. Sammi Reddy Director (Acting), CRIDA CRIDA - Newsletter 2 Research Highlights New Research Initiatives Development of Microbial Consortia for Drought Tolerance in Rainfed Crops Plant beneficial microorganisms have great potential to enhance the drought tolerance and crop productivity. They exhibit variety of plant growth promoting characteristics, which help in modifying the physiological responses to water scarcity and enhances the survival and growth of crop plants. Combination of microbial cultures potentially aid in multiple functions, which are not possible otherwise. Since the constituent individual species perform different functions such as nitrogen fixation, phosphorus solubilization, drought tolerance etc. which gives additive benefit for crop growth and development. At ICARCRIDA, a project entitled 'Development of microbial consortia for drought tolerance in rainfed crops' has been initiated in collaboration with AICRP on Dryland Agriculture to evaluate microbial consortia already developed at CRIDA under different rainfed regions of the country and to identify potential isolates/ consortia of microorganisms if any for drought tolerance and plant growth promotion from native soils. This study would help in characterizing the location specific effective consortia that could be used to improve plant growth and yield under drought stress conditions. District Action Plans for Drought Proofing ICAR-CRIDA has been given the responsibility to develop district action plans for drought proofing for 24 selected districts in 3 states i.e Karnataka (16), Andhra Pradesh (4), Rajasthan (4). The plans being developed in association with participation of district level officials of different line departments including agriculture, horticulture, animal husbandry, irrigation, groundwater and rural development and KVKs and state agriculture universities. A common template has been prepared by ICAR-CRIDA and circulated to all districts to collect the relevant information on all sectors covering climate information, crops, animals, water resources availability and prioritisation basis to identify the crops/horticulture systems/ livestock systems to assess the vulnerability and the possible interventions in terms of water management, watershed activities and crop based interventions for inclusion in developmental programmes. Capacity building workshops were organised for 3 states separately on the template and review meetings are also completed for district level officials. Co-4 fodder in the farmer's field Farmers FIRST Project Farmers FIRST project on "Farmer Centric Natural Resource Development for Socio- Economic Empowerment in Rainfed areas of Southern Telangana Region" being implemented since October, 2016 in Pudur mandal of Vikarabad district of Telangana State in a cluster of four villages namely: Thirumalapur, Rakamcharla, Pudugurthy and Devanoniguda comprising 400 households. Based on PRA and baseline survey information, an action plan and technology package for the area has been implemented. The technology package modules comprised of soil and water conservation, crops and cropping systems, horticulture, livestock, farm mechanization and socio-economic studies. Development of model irrigation system, vegetable nursery raising at farmers level utilizing portrays with cocopeat; seed and shade nets, backyard poultry; mineral supplementation; crop residue management by making total mixed ration and use of chaff cutter; ram lamb technology; fodder technology var.CO- 4 series were some of interventions carried out in the villages in participatory mode. CRIDA - Newsletter 3 Unreaped Yield Potentials of Major Rainfed Crops A Decision Support System (DSS) has been developed which can be hosted online. The DSS accommodates 15 rainfed crops. For a selected crop and district, the DSS identifies model district having agro-climatic features similar to target district and provides potential yield achieved by model district. It further explores the scope for bridging the yield gap with adoption of HYVs and proper nutrient management. Some validation checks were incorporated for nutrient use. Testing is being done for hosting the application on CRIDA server. Yield efficiency of a district was assessed under rainfed conditions by building a composite index. The index was built by combining crop-wise efficiencies (20 crops) using area sown under a crop as weight. There were 60 districts which have potential for doubling of yield under rainfed production system. Scientific Activities Orientation Workshop on Drought Management An Orientation Workshop on "Drought Management in Odisha" at Watershed Mission Building, Bhubaneswar was organized on 7th July, 2017 by Department of Agriculture and Farmers' Empowerment, Govt. of Odisha, involving all line departments. The workshop was attended by Director, CRIDA and Scientist representatives from CRIDA, IIWM and OUA&T. The meeting was chaired by Smt. Sujata Kartikeyan, Commissioner cum Director, Odisha Watershed Development Mission. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Acting Director, ICAR-CRIDA in his opening remarks, appraised the delegates about short, medium and long-term action plans of Drought management to be taken up and role of various stakeholders in carrying out the MoU. Two presentations were made, first by Dr. P. Vijaya Kumar, ICARCRIDA on the detailed approach for drought management and the other by Dr. G. Kar of ICAR-IIWM on Mitigation Strategies. Deliberations were made on identification of blocks which are vulnerable to drought based on data available for selected parameters. Further, stress on inclusion of socio-economic parameters was laid, as Odisha is lagging behind in these aspects though it has better natural resources. A core group was formed to work out the methodology of prioritizing blocks for drought management. Smt. Sujata suggested for development of detailed technical programme for the selected blocks at the earliest to initiate the activities and also for monitoring and evaluation of the Programme by ICAR and SAU. Institute Advisory Committee (IAC) Meeting under Farmers FIRST Project Institute Advisory Committee (IAC) under Farmers FIRST Project was conducted on 26th July, 2017 at ICAR-CRIDA, under the chairmanship of Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICARCRIDA in the presence of Dr. Y.G. Prasad, Director, ICAR-ATARI (Zone-X), Smt. S.V. Bharati, ADA, Vikarabad Dist., Ms. Vijayanti, HO, Parigi division, Dr. G. Nirmala, PI and all Co-PIs of the Farmers FIRST Project. A brief presentation on activities of project was made by Dr. G. Nirmala, PI which included the progress of work done and action plans for the year 2017-18. Some suggestions made by official includes to sum up each parameter of survey of 400 households in 4 villages, establishment of fodder bank, seed bank and IFS module in each village. Orientation Workshop on Drought Management in Odisha Institute Advisory Committee (IAC) under Farmer FIRST Project Interface Meeting on Agriculture Contingencies An interface meeting was organised on 8th August, 2017 at ICARCRIDA, Hyderabad, to assess the prevailing crop condition due CRIDA - Newsletter 4 to deficient rains in Telangana state under the chairmanship of Sri Parthasarathi, Agriculture Prin. Secretary, Govt of Telangana which was attended by District Level Officials and representatives of various institutes in Hyderabad. The rainfall for Southwest monsoon 2017, was predicted to be normal for the entire state. Rainfall during June month observed to be very good with majority mandals receiving normal to large excess rainfall in the state. A total of 264 mandals out of 584 mandals in the state received large excess rainfall. Only 63 mandals received deficient (59 mandals) to large deficient (4 mandals) rains in the state. Contingency measures to be taken up under the present condition were discussed. An assessment of available water in major, medium and minor tanks was also discussed. District level officials were advised to be cautious and also requested to monitor the emerging pests for cotton and other crops and requested to issue timely advisories to farmers using electronic media. Interface Meeting Standing Technical Committee (STC) Meeting of National Mission for Sustainable Agriculture (NMSA). The Standing Technical Committee (STC) meeting of National Mission for Sustainable Agriculture (NMSA) was held on 8th September, 2017 at ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad under the Chairmanship of Dr.K. Sammi Reddy, Chairman, STC & Director, ICARCRIDA. Sri B.V.N. Rao, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture, Cooperation & Farmers Welfare gave a brief on the importance of the pilot research projects being implemented by the various ICAR institutes sanctioned under NMSA. The committee reviewed these projects and suggested to develop Climate Resilient Farming System models. The committee advised to develop a withdrawal strategy for maintenance of assets created under the project and the outcome of the projects should indicate how the interventions of the project would contribute towards the vision of doubling of the farmers' income and reducing the risk due to extreme climate events. Hindi Fortnight Celebration The Hindi Fortnight was organized from 1-14 September, 2017. On this occasion Hindi Noting Drafting, Hindi-English technical, terminology, Hindi competitions and many others were organized. Winners were awarded with cash prizes on the concluding day by Director, CRIDA. Hindi Fortnight Celebration Dr.K.Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting) visited various experimental plots during Field IRC Field Institute Research Council (IRC) Meeting Field Institute Research Council (IRC) Meeting for 2017-18 was held on 21st September, 2017 at Gunegal Research Farm (GRF) and 27th September, 2017 at Hayathnagar Research Farm (HRF) under the chairmanship of Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting). The chairman IRC, Dr.K.Sammi Reddy, Project coordinators, Heads of Divisions/Sections and scientists visited various experiments and discussed thoroughly on various treatment effects. Various suggestions like displaying of the experimental and treatment boards at the experimental site, periodical Meeting in progress CRIDA - Newsletter 5 monitoring of soil moisture in CA related experiments, correlation of rainfall amount, rainy days and crop were made in Field IRC. Quinquennial Review Team (QRT) Meeting A two-day Quinquennial Review Team (QRT) meeting was organized at ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad during 20-21 December, 2017 under the Chairmanship of Dr. J.C. Katyal, Former VC, HAU, Hisar & Ex. DDG (Edn.), ICAR. The meeting was attended by Dr. V.M. Mayande, Former VC, PDKV, Akola; Dr. A. M. Shekh, Former VC, AAU Anand; Dr. V.S. Korikanthimath, Former Director, ICAR-CCARI, Goa; Dr. S.D.Gorantiwar, Head, (Dept. of IDE), MPKV, Rahuri and Dr. Rajender Parsad, Principal Scientist, ICAR-IASRI. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, in his welcome address briefed the members about historical background of the institute, organizational structure, achievements in brief. The QRT members appreciated the efforts of ICAR- CRIDA and recommended inter-divisional approach for carrying out research. An interaction session was also organized with the scientists of the institute. QRT meeting in progress Interaction session with scientists Technology Transfer Exposure Visit under Farmers FIRST Project An exposure visit was conducted for nearly 80 farmers from Devononiguda and Rakamcherla villages of Pudur cluster, Vikarabad district, Telangana state on 30th August, 2017 to expose the farmers to the horticulture exhibition which has been organized at Peoples plaza, Necklace road, Hyderabad by the State Department of Horticulture and Sericulture, Government of Telangana. During the visit the farmers were exposed to various horticultural technologies. A technical session was arranged on horticulture schemes of department and subsidies and prospects of organic farming in vegetable cultivation, and best management in vegetables particularly chillies which is grown by the farmers. The exposure visit provided farmers an opportunity to meet promoters of organic farming, medicinal and aromatic products, Bonsai practitioners etc. Farm Implements Distribution to Tribal Farmers In the month of October, 2017 two programmes were organized in Kothwalguda cluster of Adilabad district and another in Yellamma thanda cluster of Rangareddy district (27th October, 2017) to create awareness among tribal farmers and to distribute improved implements to the farmers, in the awareness programme organized in Rangareddy district. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting) emphasized the need of various improved implements and machinery and presented machines to the selected beneficiaries. CRIDA Farm machinery team under the guidance of Dr. I. Srinivas conducted demonstrations to farming community. Participation of Farmers in National Workshop Farmers from Pudur cluster under FFP project participated in 'A National Workshop on Doubling Farmers Income' from 22-23 December, 2017 at ICAR-NAARM. Feedback and suggestions on technology generation and dissemination for doubling farmers' income were provided to Telangana farmers during the meet. Dr. K.Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting) distributing power sprayers to farmers of Rangareddy Cluster Adilabad cluster village farmers display power sprayers received from CRIDA Participation of farmers in National Workshop Mera Gaon Mera Gaurav (MGMG) Activities Teams of Scientists from CRIDA have visited villages of Adilabad and Rangareddy districts in Telangana state under MGMG programme during July to December, 2017. During the period the following activities were undertaken in the programme: CRIDA - Newsletter 6 Districts Villages Activities Adilabad Seetagondi gram panchayat: Chinna Malkapur, Pedda Malkapur, Kothwalguda and Garkampet Demonstration and distribution of ten 5-hp pump sets and power sprayers to eligible beneficiaries, acquired under TSP plan Rangareddy Yellammathanda, Dadipalli thanda, Venkateswarthanda and Rangapur Distribution of power sprayers Nalgonda Kothathanda, Boringthanthanda, Lakma thanda Voice based Agro-advisries National Nutrition Week Celebration ICAR - KVK, Ranga Reddy district, CRIDA organized National Nutrition Week from 1 - 7 September, 2017 in the KVK adopted villages Narrepally and Gummadivelli. The theme of the event envisaged by the Govt. of India was "Better health and Improved diet in Infants and children". In Narrepally village, the programme was conducted on 6th September, 2017, where about 200 farm women, farmers and Anganwadi teachers attended the programme. Dr. V. Maruthi, Head KVK emphasized the traditional diets, their importance in nutrition to rural women. Smt. Shantisree, ICDS CDPO and chief guest presented a detailed picture of Nutritional programme for women nutritive value of synthetic diets nutritional disorders etc. In Gummadivelli, Kandukur Mandal, Ranga Reddy District the National Nutrition Week was celebrated on 7th September, 2017. Around 200 farm women attended the programme. Sri M.Babu Sarpanch, Sri Rameshwara Rao, District Training Officer, Zilla Parishad, Smt. Shobana CDPO, Kandukur mandal participated in the programme as Chief guests. Nutritional aspects of farm women and nutrition requirements were the topics of discussion during the programme. Field Day on Usage of Agricultural Implements ICAR-CRIDA KVK has conducted field day and an awareness programme on usage of agricultural Implements in field demonstrations on 18th September, 2017 at Gummadivelly village, Kandukur mandal, Ranga Reddy District. Dr. V. Maruthi, Head, KVK briefed the farmers on the need to adopt mechanization in all operations for cost reduction and yield enhancement with different implements and other technologies. Dr. B. Sanjeeva Reddy, Principal Scientist and OIC of farm Implements ICARCRIDA emphasized on CRIDA developed implements usage and availability. Er S. Vijayakumar, SMS (Agricultural Engineering), organized 30 field demonstrations in two villages with seedcum-fertilizer planter and the performance of demonstrated farmer fields with comparison to farmers' method and was found to be effective. About 67 farmers participated in the field day programme from two villages Gummadavelly and Kolanguda villages. The Farmers were educated on the improved production technologies through interactions and brochure prepared in local language. An exhibition was also arranged during this occasion to exhibit different agricultural implements developed from ICARCRIDA. Technology Week Technology week was organised at KVK-Ranga Reddy, ICARCRIDA, Hyderabad during 14-16 October, 2017. On the first day Dr.V.Maruthi, Head, KVK and Principal Scientist chaired the event and the Chief Guest of the day was Er.M.Mallikarjuna Swamy, State Technical Expert, State Level Nodal Agency, PMKSY and WDC, Telangana State, Guest of Honour was Dr.K.Dattatri, Principal Scientist, ICAR-ATARI, Hyderabad. Exhibitions were organized on farm machinery, livestock medicines, feed mixtures, bio-products, micro-irrigation, fodder cafeteria, books and literature on agriculture. National Women Farmers' Day National Women Farmers' Day (Mahila Kisan Divas) was organized by Krishi Vigyan Kendra, CRIDA on 15.10.2017 at Hayathnagar Research Farm with the participation of 250 women farmers from Ranga Reddy district. Dr. V. Maruthi, Head, KVK and Principal Scientist briefed the importance of the day and women's role in agriculture. Dr. K. Uma Maheswari, Head, PGRC, PJTSAU in her lecture discussed about the problems faced by women in farm activities. Dr. Sarah Kamala, Professor, AICRP (H.Sc.) discussed the issues related to drudgery reduction technologies for farm women, farm women's role and problems in agriculture. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA, Chief Guest of the programme addressed the women farmers by highlighting the KVK role in women empowerment, drudgery management and nutritional aspects. Dr. Y.G. Prasad, Director, ICAR-ATARI, Guest of Honour in his address sought the farmers to utilize the services of KVK by women farmers related to nutrition garden, drudgery equipment, trainings on farm and nonfarm activities. Live demonstrations, exhibits, technical sessions and farmer interactions with the experts were organized. National womens day celebration at CRIDA-KVK. CRIDA - Newsletter 7 National Agriculture Education Day ICAR-CRIDA celebrated National Agriculture Education Day on 3rd December, 2017 by organizing essay writing competitions for Class VIII & IX students and painting competitions for Class VI & VII students to mark the birth anniversary of first President of Independent India and Union Minister of Agriculture, Bharat Ratna (Late) Dr. Rajendra Prasad. Total 36 students from 12 different Kendriya Vidyalaya Schools located in Hyderabad and Secunderabad participated in the competitions. Dr. R.Nagarjuna Kumar, Scientist, briefed about the celebrations of Nation Agriculture Education Day. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA distributed prizes to the winners. In his address, he advised the students to choose agriculture science as a career option and also said that agriculture as a discipline which has huge opportunities and awareness of this has to be created through such science based programmes. oriented the farmers about soil testing facility, procedure of soil sample collection, analysis and usage of recommendations for higher crop yields. Sri. Pentaiah, Village Sarpanch thanked the CRIDA efforts in preparation and distribution of soil health cards and requested for similar cooperation and support in future. CRIDA scientists and extension functionaries from Agriculture department and Horticulture department interacted with the farmers. 140 Soil Health Cards were distributed with the crop related recommendations to the farmers of Rakamcharla, Tirumalapur and Devanoniguda villages of Pudur cluster under Farmers' First Project. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA explained the usage of Soil Health Cards and its National Agriculture Education Day Celebration World Soil Day Celebration at Rakamcharla Village KVK-CRIDA celebrated Agriculture Education Day on 3rd December, 2017 at KVK, Hayathnagar Research Farm. A batch of 164 school children from Ravindrabharathi School and St. Patrick School of 8th -10th standard actively participated. These school children were exposed to live field crops technologies, fodder cafeteria, farm mechanization, agricultural implements, livestock demonstrations etc. and also emphasized the importance of soil health status for agriculture crops and importance of soil by demonstration of soil testing in the laboratory. A debate competition on "Importance of organic Agriculture" was organized for students. Dr. V. Maruthi, Head, KVK and Principal Scientist and KVK staff interacted with children on various issues concerned to Agriculture education, followed by the distribution of appreciation certificates for the winners. World Soil Day Celebrations ICAR-CRIDA celebrate World Soil Day on 5th December, 2017 at Rakamcharla village, Pudur Mandal, Vikarabad district under the Chairmanship of Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICARCRIDA, Hyderabad. Around 200 farmers from the villages of Pudur cluster attended the Soil Health Card distribution program. Dr. G.Nirmala, Principal Scientist, Head, TOT welcomed the participants and explained the objectives of the programme. Shri Ram Mohan, Agricultural Officer from the Agriculture department World soil day celebration at CRIDA-KVK interpretation for effective nutrient management for sustainable crop yields. On this occasion farm literature on "Soil Health Cards", "Soil and Water Conservation measures" and "Nursery raising through portrays" were released by the dignitaries. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy along with CRIDA scientists reviewed the progress of Farmers FIRST project activities during the field visit. World Soil Day was celebrated by conducting programme in one of the KVK adopted villages: Nagireddipalli, Nawabpet Mandal on 5.12.2017. Honorable MLA Sh. K. Yadaiah, Chevella Assembly Constituency participated in the programme along with other local representatives, government officials, NGOs and 188 farmers and farm women. Expert lecture by Dr. K. Srinivas, Principal Scientist (Soil Science), ICAR-CRIDA was arranged on soil health, nutrient management and soil test based recommendations to the farmers. Dr. V. Maruthi, Head, KVK and Principal Scientist briefed the importance of world soil day to the farmers. Hon'ble MLA distributed few soil health cards to the farmers from 4 villages. Pledge on Soil Day was also taken. Video message was displayed. A total of 300 soil health cards were distributed. Exhibits on soil testing kit, bio-fertilizers and fodder were also arranged. CRIDA - Newsletter 8 News from AICRPs Farmers-Scientists Interaction Meeting AICRPDA Centre, Rakh Dhiansar organized Farmers-Scientists interaction meeting in AICRPDA-NICRA village Khaner, District Samba on 26th November, 2017. Dr K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA, Dr. G. Ravindra Chary Project Coordinator (AICRPDA), Dr. S. K. Dhyani, Principal Scientist, NRM Division ICAR, Dr. J. P. Sharma, Director of Research and other officials from SKUAST-Jammu, Scientists from AICRPDA centres, Rakh Dhiansar, Ballowal Saunkhri and farmers from the AICRPDA-NICRA villages Khaner and Dangervala participated in the meeting. Farmers appreciated the real-time contingency measures to cope-up with weather aberrations and farmers emphasized on farm mechanization in rainfed crops. Brainstorming Session on "Automation of Agromet Advisory Services" A meeting of scientists from IMD, AICRPAM and ICAR-CRIDA was organized on 3rd August, 2017 at ICAR-CRIDA. The meeting was chaired by Dr. K. J. Ramesh, Director General, IMD, in which Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA, Dr. P. Vijaya Kumar, PCAICRPAM and other scientists from IMD, AICRPAM Unit and Farmers-Scientists interaction in the AICRPDA-NICRA village AICRPAM Annual Working Group meeting National Innovations in Climate Resilient Agriculture (NICRA) Annual Action Plan and Review Workshop of NICRA-KVKs Annual action plan and review workshop of NICRA-KVK's of various ATARI Zones were conducted in July, 2017 to review the progress in 2017- 18 and to discuss and finalize the action plan for 2018-19. The meetings captured the salient achievements and success stories from technology demonstrations in NICRA adopted villages. Dr. JVNS Prasad, Co-PI, TDC-NICRA emphasized about the approaches for scaling up of the proven resilient practices in the NICRA villages which is to be adopted in the next phase of NICRA in various workshops. Various suggestions were given to make the NICRA-KVK's achievements visible to other farmers and stakeholders. NICRA-KVK's of the zone presented from three AICRPAM centers attended and discussed about the collaboration between AICRPAM and IMD in preparation and dissemination of Agromet advisories. AICRPAM Annual Working Group Meeting The Annual working group meeting of AICRP on Agrometeorology was held at Sher-e-Kashmir University of Agriculture Sciences & Technology (SKUAST) Jammu, Chatha during 27th-29th November, 2017 to evaluate the research progress made during Kharif 2016 and Rabi 2016-17. All the scientists from AICRPAM Unit and cooperating centers participated. The center-wise progress of AICRPAM was reviewed under each individual research theme. QRT member Dr. AM Shekh and other invited experts have provided their valuable suggestions. Training to IMD Scientist In a series of trainings to IMD scientists, Dr. (Mrs.) Lata Bishnoi was trained under AICRPAM, ICAR-CRIDA in Agrometeorology from 21-08-2017 to 8-09-2017. Brainstorming meeting on Automation of Agromet Advisory CRIDA - Newsletter 9 the consolidated achievements of the NICRA programme in the last 6 years and the action plan for the next year. Details of the Annual Action Plan and Review Workshop of NICRA-KVKs Sl.No Zones Place Date 1 Zone VIII Krishi Vigyan Kendra- Baramati (Pune) 3 July, 2017 2 Zone III ICAR-ATARI, Jodhpur 5 July, 2017 3 Zone V ICAR-ATARI, Kolkata 12 July, 2017 4 Zone VI College of Veterinary Sciences, Assam Agricultural University, Khanapara, Guwahati 10-11 July, 2017 5 Zone X ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad 13 July, 2017 6 Zone XI ICAR-ATARI, Bengaluru 29 July, 2017 Expert committee meeting in progress resilient agriculture, Up-scaling farm machinery custom hiring centres in India: A policy paper, "Roots of rainfed crops and Issues and remedies in rainfed farming" (in Hindi) were released by the Hon'ble DG, ICAR. Glimpses of Annual Action Plan cum Review Workshops Expert Committee to Review the Research Projects A two-day NICRA Expert Committee meeting was organized at NASC, New Delhi during 23rd-24th October, 2017.Dr. T. Mohapatra, Secretary, DARE and DG, ICAR in his address set the road map for next phase of NICRA with outputs that have impact at national level. Progress of 13 ongoing projects from Competitive Grants and two projects under Sponsored component were reviewed under the Chairmanship of Dr. K. Alagusundaram, DDG (NRM) and co-chaired by Dr. S Bhaskar, ADG (AAF & CC). Dr. K Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad presented the overview of progress under NICRA under CG and Sponsored components so far and the need for thorough monitoring of the progress by the expert committee. For each project a subcommittee of relevant members from NICRA Expert Committee was formed to mentor and monitor the progress of the projects. The committee deliberated on the identification of themes for inviting new proposals under Competitive Grants component for the next phase of NICRA. On this occasion, four publications from ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad viz., Farm innovations in climate ZMC visit at Kendrapara ZMC visit at Jharsaguda Zonal Monitoring Committee (ZMC) Visits Zonal monitoring committee's visits to various zones were organized to review the technical progress of different modules like NRM, crop production, livestock & fishery and institutional interventions in NICRA villages and for making appropriate suggestions for improvement. Details of ZMC visits during 2017-18 Sl. No Name of the ATARI Name of the KVK Date Name of the participating Member from CRIDA 1 Kolkata Kendrapara, Jharsuguda 31October - 1November, 2017 Dr. M. Osman 2 Barapani Ri-Bhoi and Imphal East 23-24 November, 2017 Dr. JVNS. Prasad 3 Hyderabad Nalgonda & Khammam 12-13 December, 2017 Dr. I. Srinivas, Dr. G. Pratibha 4 Patna Buxar, Jehanabad and Aurangabad 13-15 December, 2017 Dr. S.K. Bal, Dr. D.B.V. Ramana 5 Jodhpur Sirsa, Yamunangar 21-23 December, 2017 Dr. S.K. Yadav, Dr. K. Nagasree CRIDA - Newsletter 10 Important Visitors Visit of Dr. K. Alagusundaram DDG (NRM), ICAR Dr. K. Alagusundaram, Deputy Director General (NRM) has visited ICAR-CRIDA on 16th August, 2017 to review the research activities and oversee the completion of Climate Research Facilities (FATE, CTGC and SCADA) at Hayatnagar Research Farm (HRF). Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting) along with Project Coordinators, Heads of Divisions/Sections, other Scientists, staff of Administration and Finance have accompanied the DDG to HRF. The DDG (NRM) expressed his satisfaction Dr.K.A Lagusundaram, Deputy Director General (NRM) Interacting with Scientists about the progress made in installation of Climate Research Facilities. He visited the farm machinery workshop and gave valuable suggestions for improving the workshop facilities. Canadian Delegation Visit to ICAR-CRIDA Canadian delegation visited ICAR-CRIDA on 17th November, 2017. The team interacted with the Director and Scientists of the institute. The team got acquainted with the technologies developed by the institute displayed in Dryland Gallery and were exposed to various research facilities present at CRIDA. Visits Abroad Dr. D.B.V. Ramana participated in the International Conference on Recent Advances in Animal Nutrition (RAAN) held at School of Environmental and Rural Science, University of New England, Armidale, New South Wales, Australia from 25-27, October, 2017 under 2015 Norman E. Borlaug International Agricultural Science and Technology Fellowship Programme (Borlaug Fellowship) of United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), Foreign Dr. D.B.V. Ramana participated in the Recent Advances in Animal Nutrition (RAAN) conference Agricultural service, USA. The purpose of the visit was to get exposed to the recent advances in animal nutrition and had dialogue with mentor for possible future research linkages. Human Resource Development Training Programme on Efficient Watershed Management in Rainfed Agriculture A five day training programme on "Efficient Watershed Management in Rainfed Agriculture" sponserd by watershed development department, Govt. of Karnataka was organized at ICAR-CRIDA from 19-23 September, 2017. Twelve officials from the Karnataka agriculture departments participated in the programme. The training covered various aspects of soil and water conservation, water harvesting, farm machineries along Participants of the training programme Canadian delegation visit to ICAR-CRIDA CRIDA - Newsletter 11 with field visits and practical exposure to the water harvesting structures. Dr. K. Ravi Shankar, PS, TOT was the course director for the training course. Model Training Course on Participatory Natural Resource Management for Sustainable Agricultural Productivity in Rainfed areas Model Training Course on "Participatory Natural Resource Management for Sustainable Agricultural Productivity in Rainfed areas" sponsored by DOE was organised at CRIDA during October 4-11, 2017. Fifteen officials from eight different states viz., Telangana, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Odisha, Tamil Nadu, Goa, Punjab and Karnataka attended the model training course. The course covered focus on various technologies for sustainable NRM, horticulture systems in rainfed agriculture, enhancing productivity of crops and cropping systems through effective use of natural resources, farming systems approach, role of livestock and their management for enhancing productivity and income in drylands, gender mainstreaming, communication tools and techniques for sustainable NRM. Dr. K. Nagasree, Principal Scientist was the course director for the training programme. Participants of the training programme Training Programme on Farm Mechanization under CRP-Farm Mechanization and Precision Farming The programme was organized by the ICAR-CRIDA under CRP-Farm Mechanization and Precision Farming in association with KVK, RR District for TSP farmers on 27th October, 2017 at Yellamma Thanda village, Manchal Manda, Rangareddy District. The participants were addressed by Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), B. Venkteswar Rao, ADA, Alair Reddy District, Smt. G. Jayamma, MPP, Mr. Jagadeswar, village Sarpanch and ICARCRIDA Staff. The participants explained about the importance of farm mechanization in agriculture. Different farm machinery viz. manual weeder, six row multi crop CRIDA planter, bed planter cum herbicide applicator, bullock drawn weeder etc. were demonstrated. Around 200 farmers were trained from Yellamma Thanda village. The trainees were imparted skills in operation of different crop based agricultural implements. ICAR Short course on Tools on Monitoring, Evaluation and Impact Assessment of Rainfed Technologies and Development Programmes ICAR Sponsored Short course on "Tools on Monitoring, Evaluation and Impact Assessment of Rainfed Technologies and Development Programmes" was conducted for 10 days from 1-10 November, 2017 at ICAR-CRIDA. Dr. Y. G. Prasad, Director, ATARI (Zone-X) was the Guest of Honour for the inaugural session. Dr. Y. G. Prasad addressed the participants about the importance of Tools on Monitoring, Evaluation and Impact Assessment of Rainfed Technologies. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), ICAR-CRIDA highlighted significance of M&E for impact assessment of rainfed technologies in the context of doubling farmers' income. Dr. G. Nirmala, Principal Scientist and Course Director briefed the objectives of the short course. During the ten days of short course, the participants were familiarized with topics like concepts and principles of M&E, results-based management, theory of change, protocols for organic livestock interventions, impact assessment of KVK, IWDP and agricultural development programmes. Inaugural session of the short course Participants of the training programmes ICAR-Sponsored Training Program for ICAR Technical Staff ICAR-sponsored training program on 'Agrometeorological Data Collection, Analysis and Management' for ICAR technical staff was organized at ICAR-CRIDA during 11-23 December, 2017. All the trainees were exposed to various agro-climatic analysis techniques, and on hands on practicals. Besides these, they were exposed to national and international institutes where the Agrometeorological research is going on through field visits. CRIDA - Newsletter 12 Capacity Building Activities of Farmers Training on Crop Colonies and Soil Health Management in Horticulture Crops Department of Horticulture, Telangana and KVK-CRIDA organized the training programme on "Crop colonies and soil health management in horticulture crops for sustainable net returns" organized at Center of Excellence, Govt. of Telangana, Jeedimetla, Medchal on 8th September, 2017. About 150 practicing farmers from Ibrahimpatnam cluster attended the training. Sri. S. Parthasarathi, IAS, APC & Secretary to Govt.Agriculture & Cooperation, Government of Telangana, Sri L. Venkatram Reddy, Commissioner of Horticulture (FAC), Government of Telangana and department officials interacted with farmers and visited the fields. Importance of soil testing, procedures for soil sampling, soil test based fertilizer recommendations, vulnerability of small and marginal farmers in rain-fed/dryland areas, integrated farming with agri-horti-animal husbandry for sustainable net income, crop diversification, inter crops/mixed cropping, strip cropping, trap crops, boarder crops, sticky traps, pheromone traps, water traps etc were also demonstrated. Pest Management and Vegetable Cultivation in Nawabpet Mandal of Vikarabad Division (Kesavapalli and Thimmaredy palli villages). Dr. SM Vidya sekhar and Sh. G. Sri Krishna from KVK-CRIDA, Ranga Reddy District, Telangana, Sh. Nagabrahma Chari, CEO of Seed NGO and Village Sarpanch along with 67 farmers participated in the programme. The soil test based fertilizer recommendations were given to 200 farmers for crops like Rice, Cotton, Redgram, Maize, Vegetables and soil health management aspects were explained to farmers by Dr. S.M. Vidya Sekhar, KVK during the training programme. Around 200 soil health cards prepared by KVK were distributed to farmers of the two villages. Integrated Pest Management of Cotton and Redgram crops were covered and the farmers were given the demonstration of inputs of pheromone traps with lures for Pink bollworm, Helicoverpa, Spodoptera for Cotton and Redgram and bio-fertilizers, Trichoderma etc. Training Programme on Soil Health Management, IPM and Vegetable Cultivation An off-campus training programme in collaboration with SEED NGO under the sponsorship of NABARD was organized on 14th September, 2017 on Soil Health Management, Integrated Participants of the training programme Off-campus training on "Soil Health Management and IPM" Training on "Crop colonies and Soil health management" Training on Good Horticultural Practices in Tuber Crops KVK, ICAR-CRIDA conducted on-campus training on Good horticultural Practices in Tuber crops suitable for Ranga Reddy district farmers on 29th November, 2017 at KVK, CRIDA. About 42 vegetable growers and KVK staff attended the programme. Dr. D.Anitha Kumari, Scientist (Entomology) VRS, SKLTSHU explained about suitable major tuber crops viz. Colacasia, Sweet potato and Yam with reference to improved varieties, climate, soil characters, seed rate, spacing, planting methods, weeding, irrigation, fertilizers, pest, disease management, harvesting and yield. GHPs like Bio-fertilizers, Bio-control agents, plant derivatives, Raised bed cultivation, Use of Drip irrigation, Adaptation of Fertigation, Need based Micronutrient foliar sprays, trap crops, Boarder crops, sticky traps, pheromone traps, water traps etc. which will reduce the cost of cultivation were demonstrated. CRIDA - Newsletter 13 Forthcoming Events Sl. No. Title of the event Duration 1 26th Meeting of RAC at ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad January 11-12, 2018 2 International training on Strategies for Enhancement of Farmers Income in Dryland Agriculture" under the program Feed the Future - India Triangular Training (FTF-ITT) January 16-30, 2018 3 Republic Day January 26, 2018 4 XVI Working Group Meeting of AICRPDA at AICRPDA centre, Jagdalpur February 1-5, 2018 5 International Training programme on Rainwater Management for Climate Resilient Agriculture in Dryland under India-Africa Forum Summit-III February 15 - March 07, 2018 6 CRIDA Foundation Day April 12, 2018 7 IRC meeting April/May, 2018 8 World Environment Day June 5, 2018 For further details please visit the website : www.crida.in Participation in Seminars and Symposia Name of the scientist Workshops/seminars/meetings/symposia Duration Venue K. Sammi Reddy Chaired the Thematic Session-5 on Climate Resilient Agriculture in the 3rd World Congress on Disaster Management Nov 7, 2017 Visakhapatnam, AP Delivered a lecture in Summer School on "Recent Advances in Abiotic Stress Management in Climate Smart Agriculture" Sep 15, 2017 NIASM, Baramati, Maharashtra Attended World Bank aided Project meeting on Climate Resilient Agriculture (POCRA) and to give inputs regarding the effective dissemination Sep 22-23, 2017 World Trade Centre, Mumbai, Maharashtra Attended Interactive Seminar on the foresight – Agrimonde – Terre : 2050 The Indian Perspective Dec 7, 2017 NASC, New Delhi Attended International Groundwater Conference and delivered a keynote address Dec 11, 2017 New Delhi C.A.Ramarao Zonal Review and Progress Workshop for KVKs of Andhra Pradesh, Telangana and Maharashtra July 13, 2017 ICAR-ATARI, CRIDA, Hyderabad Workshop on 'Green Revolution in Eastern India: Constraints, opportunities and way forward' organized by IFPRI & TCI Oct 9-10, 2017 NASC, New Delhi 77th Annual Conference of the Indian Society of Agricultural Economics. Oct 12–14, 2017 CGPS, CAU, Umiam, Barapani Silver Jubilee Conference of Agricultural Economics Research Association on "Doubling farmers' income : Options & Strategies" Nov 7-9, 2017 ICAR-NAARM, Hyderabad Planning Workshop on Research Impact Assessment Nov 13, 2017 ICAR-NIAP, New Delhi C.A.Ramarao, V.Girija Veni International Seminar on 'Global climatic change : Implication for agriculture and water sectors' organized by VNMKV, Parbhani Dec 14 -16, 2017 WALMI, Aurangabad B.M.K.Raju ICAR, DAC and Dept. of Agriculture, Govt. of Telangana Interaction Meeting on 'Kharif 2017 Agriculture Scenario Assessment and Contingency Plan Preparation for Telangana' Aug 8, 2017. ICAR-CRIDA, Hyderabad R. Nagarjunakumar National conference on "Technological Challenges in Social, Environmental and Agricultural Reforms" Sep 9-10, 2017 ICAR-IIRR, Rajendra-nagar, Hyderabad International Conference on Agriculture and Veterinary Sciences Oct 23 -25, 2017 PJTSAU, Hyderabad Er. Ashish S Dhimate Workshop on "Advanced Farm Mechanization: Crop Sector" Sept 25-29, 2017 NIRDPR, Hyderabad CRIDA - Newsletter 14 Awards and Recognition AICRPDA-Ananthapuramu centre received "ICAR-Vasantrao Naik Award for Outstanding Research and Application in Dryland Farming Systems 2016" during ICAR Foundation Day and Award Ceremony on 16th July, 2017 at NASC, New Delhi. Dr. R.Nagarjuna Kumar, Scientist was awarded the best Ph.D. Thesis award and best paper award for the paper "Mobile Applications : Shaping the future of agricultural extension and advisory services" presented during the National conference on "Technological Challenges in Social, Environmental and Agricultural Reforms" organized at ICAR-IIRR, Hyderabad during 9-10, September, 2017. Ms B. Saraswati won 1st Prize in session on "Creativity and Innovation for excellence" and 3rd prize in session on "Effective Media Communication Skills" in training programme on "Enhancing Efficiency and Behavioral Skills for Stenographers Receiving Award at ICAR-IIRR, Hyderabad Grade III, PAs, PSs, & Sr. PPSs" of ICAR organized at ICARNAARM, Hyderabad during 25-31 October, 2017 Dr. Ravi Shankar received the Young Scientist Award-2017 from Indian Society of Extension Education, New Delhi at the ISEE National Seminar on "Doubling Farmers' Income and Farm Production through Skill Development and Technology Application" organized by the Department of Extension Education, Bihar Agricultural University, Sabour and Indian Society of Extension Education, New Delhi at Sabour, Bihar during 28-30 November, 2017. Mr. G. Venkatesh, Scientist (Senior Scale) awarded with the Doctor of Philosophy in Environmental Science and Technology by the Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University, Hyderabad on 15th July, 2017. Mr. AVM Subba Rao, Sr. Scientist was awarded Doctor of Philosophy on 12th December, 2017. Personnel Information Appointments/Promotions/Transfers/Joining Name and Designation Transferred/Joined/Promoted/Appointed Date w.e.f Dr. S.K. Bal, Principal Scientist (Agrometeorology) Transferred from ICAR - NIASM, Baramati, Pune 01.07. 2017 Dr. T. V. Prasad, Principal Scientist (Entomology) Transferred from ICAR-NBPGR, New Delhi 07.07.2017 Mr. Rajkumar Dhakar, Scientist (Agril. Physics) Joined back in ICAR-CRIDA after Ph.D. at ICAR-IARI, New Delhi. 01.08.2017 Shri. Ravi Dudpal, Scientist (Agril.Econ.) Transferred to ICAR-IISWC Research Centre, Bellari 28.09.2017 Ms. Sneha Verghese, Assistant Appointed in ICAR-CRIDA 07.12.2017 Shri. Putta Santosh Appointed in ICAR-CRIDA 06.09.2017 Promotions Dr. T. V. Prasad Sr. Scientist - Principal Scientist 17.06.2015 Shri. D. Sudheer STO - Assistant Chief Technical Officer 16.10.2015 Shri. Sri Krishna STO - Assistant Chief Technical Officer 28.12.2015 Receiving Young Scientist Award at Sabour, Bihar Name and Designation Transferred/Joined/Promoted/Appointed Date w.e.f Shri. I. R. Khandgond STO - Assistant Chief Technical Officer 16.10.2015 Smt. P. Laxmi Narasamma ACTO - Chief Technical Officer 01.07.2014 Shri. S. Srinivas Reddy ACTO - Chief Technical Officer 01.01.2014 Smt. Vidyadhari ACTO - Chief Technical Officer 01.07.2016 Smt. V. L. Savithri STO - Assistant Chief Technical Officer 01.07.2016 Shri. Manish Tomar Tech. Asst. - Sr. Technical Assistant 16.03.2017 Shri. Hemant Sahu Tech. Asst. - Sr. Technical Assistant 21.03.2017 Shri. P. Satish Tech. Asst. - Sr. Technical Assistant 02.03.2017 Shri. P. Ramakrishna Tech. Asst. - Sr. Technical Assistant 08.04.2016 CRIDA - Newsletter 15 Oath taking ceremony on Sadbhavana Diwas Independence Day Celebration The 71st Independence Day was celebrated on 15th August, 2017 with pride, patriotic zeal and gratitude towards the sacrifices of our freedom fighters. The Director hoisted the flag and addressed the staff of CRIDA. On this occasion Director distributed cash awards (CCS&CCRC) to the X class toppers of CRIDA staff children and motivated the staff with his message to work with dedication and boost institute's growth. Cultural and Welfare Activities Independence Day Celebration Name and Designation Transferred/Joined/Promoted/Appointed Date w.e.f Shri. Prem Kumar STO - Asst. Chief Technical Officer (Retired) 01.01.2011 Smt. D. Kalpana Assistant - Assistant Administrative Officer 30.12.2017 Shri. J. Mallesh & Shri. Ch. Balaiah Granted MACP from level 3 to level 4 28.07.2017 Smt. Avula Lalitha Granted MACP from level 2 to level 3 11.07.2014 Our hearty congratulations to all of them Sadbhavana Diwas "Sadbhavana Diwas" was observed on 18th August, 2017. Accordingly, a pledge taking ceremony was held on 18th August, 2017. Swachhta Hi Seva "Swachhta Hi Seva" was organized at ICAR-CRIDA during 14th September to 2nd October, 2017. The inaugural day started with oath by all the staff and various activities were carried out under "Swachhta Hi Seva". All the staff participated in the event for Retirements Name Designation Date of superannuation Mr. E. Ravindranath STO 31.11.2017 Shri. Bandari Sathaiah SSS 31.08.2017 Shri. Sama Sathi Reddy SSS 31.07.2017 Shri. P.Srinivasa Rao Assistant 31.07.2017 Our best wishes for happy and peaceful retired life to all of them Glimpses of Swachhta Hi Seva South Zone Sports Meet ICAR-CRIDA contingent participated in ICAR South Zone Sports Meet held at ICAR-Sugarcane Breeding Institute, Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu from 9-13 October, 2017. Mr. Mukund, Technical Assistant secured 2nd place in 1500 meters cycle race. Vanamahostavam CRIDA Cultural and Recreation Club organized Vana Mahostavam at Hayathnagar Research Farm of the Institute on 28th October, 2017. All the CRIDA staff members actively participated in the cultural activities. The events generated great enthusiasm and unity among staff. Vigilance Awareness Week "Vigilance Awareness Week" was observed from 30th October to 4th November, 2017. Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting) in his address emphasized the importance of vigilance week and suggested all the staff to be vigilant in day to day office activities. As part of vigilance awareness week Shri. B. Viswanath, Deputy Chief Vigilance Officer, South Central Railway delivered the lecture on "My Vision : Corruption Free India" on 2nd November, 2017. cleanliness in office premises and residential quarters. Trees were planted in KVK adopted village, HRF, GRF, CRIDA main office and residential complex. Samagra Swachhata Diwas Sharamadann was celebrated in KVK adopted village. CRIDA - Newsletter BOOK-POST To _______________________________________ _______________________________________ _______________________________________ Published by : Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director (Acting), CRIDA Editorial Board Chairman : Dr. K. Sammi Reddy, Director(Acting), CRIDA Editors : Dr. (Mrs.) K. Nagasree, Pr. Scientist, TOT Dr. P. K. Pankaj, Senior Scientist, TOT Dr. R. Nagarjuna Kumar, Scientist, SDA Dr. Jagriti Rohit, Scientist, TOT Dr. Anshida Beevi CN, Scientist, TOT Hindi Translation : Dr. P.K. Pankaj, Senior Scientist, TOT Dr. S.R. Yadav, Asstt. Director (OL) Shri. G. Prabhakar, STO Photo credits : Mr. K. Surender Rao, CTO, TOT देश के वर्षा आधारित क्षेत्र में कृ ों षक आय को दगुनु ा करने की नीतियां भारत में वराषा आधारित कृ षि क्षेत्रफल लगभग 53 प्रतिशत है, जो कि देश के कु ल खाद्यान्न उत्पादन में लगभग 40 प्रतिशत का योगदान देता है। दलहन का लगभग 83 प्रतिशत, मोटे अनाज का लगभग 85 प्रतिशत, तिलहनो का लगभग 70 ं प्रतिशत एवं चावल का लगभग 42 प्रतिशत क्षेत्र वराषा आधारित कृ षि क्षेत्रफल के अंतर्गत आता है। वराषा आधारित क्षेत्रों में लगभग 40 प्र त्रों तिशत मानव एवं 60 प्रतिशत पशु निवास करते हैं। वराषा आधारित कृ षि में अधिक उत्‍पादन को निरंतर बनाए रखना तथा आय एवं जीविकोपार्जन को प्राप्‍त करना बड़ा ही जटिल कार्य है। कई वराषा आधारित फसलो की उत ं ्‍पादकता लगभग 1 टन प्रति हके ्‍टेयर है। हालांकि, किसानो में प्रमुख वर ं ाषा आधारित प्रौद्योगिकियो को अपनान ं े की प्रक्रिया एवं प्रसार अभी भी काफी धीमा है जिसके परिणामस्‍वरूप किसानो कं े खेतो एवं ं अनुसं धान कें द्रों क्रों े बीच के उत्‍पादन में काफी अंतर है। दिन-प्रतिदिन कृषको हं तु े घटता कृ षि क्षेत्रफल निरंतर एवं अक्ण्ण भू षु मि निम्‍नीकरण, पोषक तत्‍वों में काफी ्‍वों अंतर, बढ़ती जलवायु विविधता एवं जलवायु परिवर्तन ने वराषा की कमी, सूखा एवं बाढ़ के रूप में नई चुनौतियां पैदा की हैं, जो उत्‍पादकता एवं लाभ को प्रभावित करती हैं। इसके अलावा, वराषा आधारित क्षेत्रों में पशुओ त्रों की आबादी अध ं िक होने के कारण पोषकतायुक्त चारे की आवश्‍यकता होती है लेकिन चारे की मांग एवं आपूर्ति में अंतर बढ़ता ही जा रहा है। अनुमानत: वर्ष 2025 तक, हरे चारे की कमी 65 प्रतिशत एवं सूखे चारे की कमी 25 प्रतिशत तक होने की सं भावना है। मजदूरी एवं निवेश लागतो में वृ ं द्धि के कारण किसानो की वास् ं ‍तविक आय घटती जा रही है। कृिष से आय को दगुना करन ु े के लिए, बढ़ती आबादी की खाद्य एवं पोषक सुरक्षा की मांग को पूरा करने के अलावा, फसलो की उत ं ्‍पादकता में वृद्धि के साथ-साथ वराषा आधारित क्षेत्रों कत्रों े उप क्षेत्रों में पशु-पालन, मछली पालन एवं बागवानी को त्रों बढ़ावा देने की आवश्‍यकता है। लघु अवधि की नीति के रूप में उत्‍पादन अंतर को कम करने के लिए स्‍थान विशेष के लिए तैयार की गई वराषा आधारित प्रौद्योगिकियों पर आधारित सं साधन सं पन्‍न प्रक्रिया अपनानी होगी। उपयुक्‍त जल सं ग्रहण एवं जल के बहतर उपयोग स े े अधिक वराषा वाले क्षेत्रों सत्रों े मध्‍यम वराषा वाले क्षेत्रों में फसल त्रों सघनता एवं कृ षि विविधता को फार्म स्‍तर पर पहुंचाने हेतु समन्वयन करना होगा। कृ षि आय बढ़ाने के लिए कृ षि प्रणाली की मजबूती पर ध्‍यान देना, पशुपालन से आय बढ़ाना, बाजार की मुख्‍य सूचना का ज्ञान एवं प्रसार करना प्रमुख हैं। विशेषकर छोटे एवं सीमांत किसानो को अध ं िक आय प्राप्‍त करने में सक्षम करने हेतु विभिन्न उद्यमो कं े साथ िमलकर जलवायु समुत्‍थान समेकित कृ षि प्रणाली का उन्‍नयन करना अत्यावश्यक है। ICAR-Central Research Institute for Dryland Agriculture Santoshnagar, Saidabad PO, Hyderabad - 500 059 Ph: 040-24530157/161/163 Fax: 040-24531802 E-mail: news.crida@icar.gov.in Website: www.crida.in बागवानी, अधिक मूल्‍य वाली फसलों की संरक्षित कृ षि, वराषा आधारित फसलों के लिए मूल्‍य श्रंृखला का विकास, बाजार ज्ञान पर समुदायो की ं क्षमता का निर्माण, मूल्‍य सं वर्धन की दिशा में कौशल विकास, किसान उत्‍पादक दलो की ं स्‍थापना करतेहुए लागत में कमी लाना एवं जल तथा फसल बीमा प्रदान करने से जोखिम में कमी लाना आदि को शामिल करके अधिक मूल्‍य वाली फसलो एवं उत ं ्‍पादो पर मध् ं ‍यम अवधि की नीति अपनाई जानी चाहिए। लंबी अवधि की टिकाऊ कृ षि के लिए मृदा जैविक कार्बन का निर्माण तथा मृदा स्वास्थ्य सुधार के लिए जैविक खाद के प्रयोग को बढ़ावा देना एवं कम कर्षण सहित फसलावशेषो कं े प्रयोग की नितांत आवश्‍यकता है। इन नीतियो को सभी सं बं ध ं ित पणधारियो कं े सहयोग से प्रणाली के रूप में कार्यान्वित किया जाना चाहिए ताकि देश में विभिन्‍न वराषा आधारित कृ षि पारिस्थितिक प्रणालियो में कृ ष ं ि आय को दगुना करन ु े के लिए मांपने योग्‍य एवं प्रमाणयुक्‍त मॉडलो की ं स्‍थापना की जा सके। केंद्र स्तर पर (पीएमकेएसवाई, पीएमपीकेवीवाई, एमजीएनआरईजीए, आरकेवीवाई, पीएमएफबीवाई आदि) एवं राज्‍य स्तर पर (कर्नाटक की कृ षि भाग्‍या, आंध्र प्रदेश की पंटसं जीवनी, महाराष्‍ट्र का पीओसीआरए, ओडिशा का सूखा प्रबं धन कार्यक्रम, तेलंगाना का टीएसएमआईपी आदि) चलाए जा रह का े र्यक्रमो की समाभ ं िरूपता से डीएसी और एफडब्‍ल्‍यू एवं राज्‍य सरकार के सं बं धित विभागो द्ं वारा मिशन मोड पद्धति में कार्य योजना को कार्यान्वित करने की नितांत आवश्‍यकता है। भाकृ अनुपक्रीडा अपने नेटवर्क भागीदार के रूप में एक्रीपडा, एक्रीपाम, निक्रा एवं राज्‍य कृ षि विश्‍वविद्यालयो कं े साथ मिलकर तकनीकी सहयोग द्वारा मिशन मोड कार्यक्रम के कार्यान्‍वयन के लिए सहयोग देगा। इसके लिए पर्याप्‍त निधि आबं टन एवं श्रम शक्ति की आवश्‍यकता हो सकती है। विभिन्‍न स्‍तरो पर सभी सं बं ध ं ित पणधारियों केक्षमता निर्माण/कौशल विकास पर भी ध्‍यान देने की आवश्‍यकता है। के . सम्मी रेड्डी निदेशक (कार्यकारी), क्रीडा डॉ.के . सम्मी रेड्डी निदेशक की कलम से.

Jayeson Vance Leading Tour at Alcatraz, 2012 ; Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. ; The following is an oral history interview with Jayeson Vance. The interview was conducted on October 10, 2013, by Lorrie Rands. Jayeson discusses memories of Ogden and 25th Street. ; 35p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 videodisc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Jayeson P. Vance Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 10 October 2013 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Jayeson P. Vance Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 10 October 2013 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. After World War II, the railroad business declined. Some government agencies and businesses related to the defense industry continued to gravitate to Ogden after the war—including the Internal Revenue Regional Center, the Marquardt Corporation, Boeing Corporation, Volvo-White Truck Corporation, Morton-Thiokol, and several other smaller operations. However, the economy became more service oriented, with small businesses developing that appealed to changing demographics, including the growing Hispanic population. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Vance, Jayeson, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 10 October 2013 , WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Jayeson Vance Leading Tour at Alcatraz 2012 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Jayeson Vance. The interview was conducted on October 10, 2013, by Lorrie Rands. Jayeson discusses memories of Ogden and 25th Street. LR: Today is October 10, 2013 doing a phone interview with Mr. Jayeson Vance who is currently residing in San Francisco, about 25th street and Ogden. My name is Lorrie Rands and I will be conducting the interview. Jayeson, I, again, appreciate your time and your willingness to help us out with this. Let's begin with the simple basics of when and where were you born? JV: I was born at the old St. Benedict's hospital on 29th and Polk in Ogden, on June 26, 1947. LR: Where did you reside, where was your home in Ogden? JV: Our home was, when I was a boy, we were, first we lived in a post war housing, emergency housing for the GI's. My dad was at Hill Field as an Air Force Sergeant, an Army Air Corp Sergeant. That was at the old Bonneville Park, as they used to call it. It was an old cinder block, post war or emergency housing that, I don't know who paid for, probably the federal government. Then they, at some point around 1950 or 51, they destroyed those homes and we, my dad was able to get a home on 1362 Hudson, between 5th and 6th on, at just above Harrison, and we were just a quarter block below Polk. That's where I spent my early years and then we later moved to 108 Harrison, at first and Harrison. LR: So was Harrison at that time, was it paved all the way through? 1 JV: Yes, Harrison was paved, Hudson was primitive, it was unpaved, thank you for asking. We actually did not even have a phone in the house and my mother had to walk to Hudson and Polk, to a little phone booth as did all the neighbors in order to place a phone call. Actually, it seems funny now, and the street was dirt and it had a curb and gutter but it didn't have the sidewalks and it didn't have, you know, it was very primitive. It was like living out on the frontier in a way, and my grandfather used to say, "You can hear the coyotes at night up there where you live." He lived on 256 Harrisville Road which is still there, that structure is still standing. LR: You grew up then in that part of Ogden? JV: Yea, on that northeast bench, I went to Ben Lomond High and then my dad had gone to Weber and my mother, actually my mother was a USU graduate. I just said, "Well," I couldn't decide what to do after I graduated from Ben Lomond, so I decided on Weber, which was a great choice. I was pleased with, I always thought it had the best—a lot of people say about Weber that we had better professors than bigger schools because you didn't have teaching assistants teaching classes, you had Ph.D.'s teaching classes quite often and so I think in some ways we got a much better education at Weber than people maybe at the University of Utah had in some ways, so anyway, it was a good time to go to Weber. I briefly was the sophomore class president for a brief while, filled in for Mike Howe I believe was his name, cause he couldn't finish his term. My name at that time, I changed my name in 1982, and my born name was Clark Walker. So that's always strange, and I have to explain that, that I 2 changed my name. I was one of those kids that had kind of an identity crisis and so my legal name is Jayson P. Vance. I don't know how much you want to know about my personal life, but just to explain, if you look me up, you'll find me under Clark Walker. Weber State records, well, except I changed my diploma reads Jayeson Vance now, so I had that changed. LR: So, I'm just curious, why did you choose Jayeson Vance? JV: It was just one of those things that I had a friend who was a counselor, which said, "It's time for a change." I had just left a federal job and I wanted a new start in life and she said, "This would be a good time to change." She had done this to, she had changed her name and she said, "I don't know, it's great," and she was able to persuade me that I should do it. Then once you do that, and we'd had a house so we had to change the mortgage records so then and I had to go to court, to district court and officially change my name by law. I can't ever use the old name again and legally, so anyway, I have, for better or worse, that's my name. So I just have to accept that. In some ways I felt shouldn't be changing that because it's my family history, but then as I researched my family history, I found out that my father's father, who was an English immigrant during World War I, which is kind of odd, how do you get to where my father was born in California? It's a long story, but his father deserted the family, his name was reputedly, Sylvester Hodgson Walker. He deserted this mother and this infant boy, who was my father and said, "I'm a British subject, I don't want to have a kid." And he ran off to Canada, and he said, "You can't touch me, I'm a British subject." I don't even really know the man's name, I never saw a picture of him 3 and it's one of these great mysteries of life that I would love to see at least what he looked like and how did he end up in California during World War One. The British would have wanted any young man to be in the Army or something and so it's a—was his name really Walker, you know, all these mysteries like that. I didn't feel troubled about dropping the name Walker, so that's, anyway, we got off on a tangent. LR: No, that's great, I asked so, let's go ahead and go back then. You said that your dad worked at Hill Field as a sergeant in the Army Air Corps, what did your mom do? JV: My mother was a teacher in her later years, well, when they were first married she was a school teacher, then she dropped her job as a teacher to be a house wife and about 1959 she went back to Ogden public schools, worked at Edison school teaching second grade. Her name was Bonnie Ruth Murphy Walker and she passed away this month, just earlier this month, ten years ago the start of this month, she's been dead 10 years now. The family is all gone, my brother, my father and my mother are all gone and my wife and I live here. LR: You're kind of cutting out on me. JV: Oh, maybe if I hold the microphone up closer here. LR: I'm not sure if it's you or if it's me. That seems to be better, okay. I hate it when I get off on my flow. As you were growing up, what were some of the things you liked to do for fun? JV: I used to draw maps of the city actually. I loved history form early on. I read Land Mark Books, I was a boy scout. I got an Eagle Scout Award, I was an Eagle 4 Scout. I was very interested in police and crime, the FBI. I wanted to be an FBI agent at one time and I studied the history of, I was reading adult literature written for adults about the FBI, you know like the FBI story by Glen Whitehead I think it is, when I was twelve. I was trying to—it was not easy to read—but I was trying and I was just obsessed with that stuff and I saw the world very black and white, in a very black and white way. I remember giving—I had some really conservative, very, very conservative opinions about law and order and I wanted to—we had some milk stolen and I wanted my mother so badly to call the police department because I wanted to look at a real policeman in the face and we hardly had any crime in that area. I was so excited that was my amusement, anything to do with law and order or police, any TV show, Texas Rangers or Broderick Crawford, who starred in California Highway Patrol or anything like that. The Lone Ranger and all that stuff, I just loved all that. We played Army, it was post World War Two so we had, almost everybody I knew was the son or the daughter of a GI or a sailor from World War Two or a Marine. We had tons of Army Men and toys about World War Two and I had a whole Army and Navy set of toys that I just spent hours with. Then we would—the little kids in the neighborhood—we'd organize into tiny army, little army training things. Then I would build little model cities in the back yard with rocks and build a highway. I had a lot of fun doing that. I made a model of Ben Lomond peak at one time in my back yard out of clay and rocks and so I had a lot of fun as for Mount Ben Lomond and all that. I tried to make of Ogden out of rocks but it was a little over whelming. 5 LR: I'll bet. So did you ever have the chance to meet any Ogden Police officers when you were younger? JV: Yea, one of my friends, Gary Greenwood, became a police officer in Ogden and he and I were golfing buddies for quite a while, and I met him, just before I moved out of Ogden—I got married and moved away, I remember seeing him in his uniform with his shoes all polished. I was so proud of him and I so wished that I could be like him, be a policeman, but I never became a policeman, I became a park ranger. Not quite the same, but he was just kind of an inspiration when I saw him standing there with his highly polished shoes and his nice neat uniform and he was very proud of it, rightly so. I lost track of him, I would like to talk to him again but I tried to locate him on the internet and he was a probation officer for a while and I couldn't find any more about him. I haven't, if you know him or anybody knows him, I would love to talk to him. He was a great guy. I'm just joining the auxiliary law enforcement team here for the San Francisco police, I just applied to join that. It's a volunteer position, but my fantasy, my interest in crime and law and order has been lifelong. I guess it's no wonder I ended up on Alcatraz. LR: Did you ever hang out downtown? JV: Yea, we did, one of my stronger memories, my father would take me, well my father was a—after he left the Army Air Corps, he became a postman at the main post office and then later Gorder's station as they used to call the post office over there on the bench. He was, his route was the businesses along 25th and along Washington. He was the downtown postman, and he would drive all the 6 packages, they didn't have a UPS, and he would do all the package deliveries all over downtown. He was a gun lover, he loved guns and there was a gun shop on 25th that he loved to go to. He knew 25th very well, he knew the Porters and Waiters Club, he took me into the Depot Drug and there was some girly magazines one time. Oh, it was a little embarrassing, I was going through puberty. Oh we looked at those girly magazines a little bit, but that was among little things like that that I remember. Depot Drug was a hive of activity. It was scary, it was frightening, but it was exciting also. They had these barrels of toys. I loved anything with a plastic army man, or army soldiers like that, and they had just piles of that stuff. Even in the front window, or I think it could even have been on the sidewalk, I could remember my heart just pounding about it, and I only got to go in there a couple of times, but it was a just a hive of excitement. There was also a fear about 25th of course, the legend of all the possibility of heroin and prostitution and all those things that were going on around there. I could even I guess sense it in my father that he was a little bit on edge, but he never had anyone bother him or threaten him in any way while he was delivering mail. He had some rude business people that were pretty rude to him, you know, kind of abusive, but he didn't ever have any threats. He was very close with the black community in Ogden, he knew a lot of the black folks and he was very pro civil rights and he felt that they had gotten the bad end of the deal. The Porters and Waiters Club was famous, of course, for the railroad porters that worked on the Union Pacific that brought Jazz to Ogden. 7 It was also a street of sin certainly. Later in life, my best man at my wedding was Arnie Jacobson and his father was chief Jacobson of the Ogden police. Arnie told me some stories, but these are now second hand stories that he got from his father, so I don't have direct access to that information but it came through Arnie. His father put on black face because they didn't have any black police officers and went down onto 25th to purchase heroine, because the dealers on 25th were black. They did make some arrests and the Ogden police were known as the toughest police in Utah because of the street, because of patrolling 25th street they had to be tougher than the Salt Lake police, according to Arnie anyway. They would have this annual football, I believe football game between the Ogden Police and the Salt Lake police and the Ogden police would always win because they had to be tougher, even though it was a smaller department by far than the Salt Lake department. It really had quite a story there, I mean you could write a lot of, I could easily see someone writing a novel or a historical novel about it. Maybe that's what I should do, I don't know. Then my mother told me about working at the Union Laundry but she did all that Union Pacific linen as a young woman. She was a pretty young brunette and her father, Clarence Murphy, would warn her, he was a Union Pacific engineer. "Now Bonnie, you get down to Washington Boulevard and get on that street car and you run to Washington Boulevard," or somebody told her, or she told me that she was so scared on 25th that she ran all the way from Wall Avenue to Washington Boulevard as fast as she could run to get to Washington Boulevard to where she felt safe, and then get on the street car to go north to 8 Harrisville Road where they lived. She had a palpable fear of that street but she again never had anything happen to her so it just, there's a lot of stuff about that street. I've seen that, I don't know you've probably seen that DVD that that fellow put out about the history of Ogden I imagine. Are you aware of that one? LR: Yes, The one that was in 2007 or 11, not too long ago? Yes. JV: They explained that, I guess they alleged that Al Capone may have been on 25th, which I've never found any—I tried because I studied Al Capone quite a bit having been on Alcatraz where he was locked up for about five years, and I've never found any evidence, have you? To support that he was ever there. LR: I haven't, the only thing I have heard about are the rumors. JV: Yea, it's just legendary. When I worked on Alcatraz we'd have people from Canada and Saskatchewan Province was a place where he was reputed to have been. Oh, Al Capone, you hear this all the time, in Wisconsin he went to honey lodges and it is conceivable that he may have been in Ogden that he was really on, and it was called Little Chicago at one point. It was one of the nick names of Ogden, of that area of Ogden as you may know already. Of course, today, it's a very different street than it was and I'm looking at a picture of it right now, a modern picture. I guess there were some movies made there with that famous noddle parlor sign? LR: Yea, the Star Noodle, the one with the dragon? JV: There was a little China town there too of course, from the Chinese workers on the railroad. My grandfather, as a boy, his mother died when he was a youngster and his father was of course a railroad worker too, an engineer, and he was 9 basically raised himself on the streets. This would have been about 1900 or 1905 around in that era, used to run opium on a bicycle around China, the little Ogden, and helped these opium dealers. It was legal at that time to sell opium, and he would, as reprehensible as it sounds now, would sell opium to the Chinese, and make a little money that way, because they didn't have much money. He and his sister and his father, no mother, were kind of, you know, they had some kind of rough edges in his early years, and he remembered being pretty mean to some of the Chinese as a teenage boy, pulling there queue's. They used to wear their hair in queue's on the back of their head, doing some mean things like that and of course the Chinese were abused everywhere. Out here in San Francisco they were abused even more. The word Chink was frequently passed around. It was a racist time it was not fun to be black or Chinese in those days. It was rough for a lot of people. LR: So did you ever witness any of that discrimination in that part of Ogden? JV: No, that was way before my time. I think it went underground, I'm sure there was a feeling that Asians were odd or you know, they were kind of a curiosity. I don't remember. We used to eat at the Utah Noodle Parlor a lot and have the other—I forget the other noodle parlor name on Grant there. We used to, and we enjoyed all the food, the chop suey and all those things. So you'd hear little remarks like that, that were racists but it was, and of course it was. My grandfather had actually been a member of the Klan when he was a youngster. He had no education, he was brought up on the streets and he picked up whatever he picked up, and he picked up a lot of racists attitudes. I remember he, as a young 10 man—he wasn't that in his older years—but as a young man, there was a Klu Klux Klan Chapter there in Ogden. The Klan was all over the United States if you study the history of the Klan and it was very powerful in the early twenties and that's about the time he was starting his family. My grandfather was out there on Harrisville Road, but he I guess they had some Klan meetings up on the foothills in the early twenties where they burned crosses and stuff up on the foothills above. You can imagine how it must have felt to be a black person and see that going on, especially a tiny minority, there in that part of the world. A feeling, you must have been pretty much an emotional, a very unpleasant emotional experience anyway for a black or an Asian too. I think they were pretty mean to Asians, the Klan was, as well. He never said much about that, he did express racist attitudes which were part of that generation, occasionally. I had that wonderful contrast in my father who just really loved the black folks in Ogden. Marshall White, the police officer who was killed there, who was a hero of the police department. After they finally got a black officer, and then he got killed, but it was a rough town. There was somewhat open prostitution, if I remember, right along parts of Grant Avenue and Lincoln Avenue. Even in my early years, even as late as maybe 19, probably about 1970 even, there was still open prostitution going on, it was very limited, but it was there. As I've studied the street I know there was a back alley that ran heroin and a tunnel that ran heroin from the depot all along, I think on the north side of the street. Maybe that tunnel is still there, I've seen 11 some references that indicate that the tunnel went all the way to the Ben Lomond Hotel apparently. Are you aware of that? LR: I'm aware more of the rumors. JV: I saw something online about historic tunnel tours of Ogden and they, if I remember correctly were going into the basement of the Ben Lomond Hotel and somebody was leading a ghost tour or something like that. They were able to go under Washington Boulevard possibly and they said, "Well, who knows." Of course they want to enlarge everything and make it more exciting so they bring in Al Capone and all that. The danger of history is always that somebody tries to enlarge things or exaggerate things. I was never able to see that myself and I didn't even know, I'd heard rumors about it but I've never been in it. LR: Well I know that most of the businesses now have closed up there tunnels, so most of the people we have talked to, yea, it's possible, but now they're all closed up so. But yea, we've had a lot of references to them, a lot of people that remember being down in them, but none actually going form Ben Lomond to the depot. We can't actually verify that, so. It's fun to hear about though. JV: Well that was the big fancy hotel, I guess the Ben Lomond was built about 1927, and being a big, the highest building in town and anybody who wanted a prostitute probably would have wanted to bring them in underground into the hotel or something like that, or wanted maybe drugs and happened to be at the hotel. It does kind of make sense if you were in the, in the world of vice and you had money enough to stay in a nice room there and you wanted something, knowing the hotel business as I do, because I worked with it for a while here, 12 there are people in the hotels are bribable a lot of times, and if you want—they want some cash and if you have the cash, they'll find a way to get you what you want. Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised, I don't have any evidence of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something like that going on. LR: I wouldn't be surprised either. Do you remember any of the people that used to live or work on 25th street? JV: Yes. Well, my mother worked at the Union Laundry I guess it was called as a— this would have been—she was born in 1919, so it would have been roughly around the time she graduated from Ogden High in 1938. So she was working at the Union Laundry, and that's where that tale about running down the street as fast as she could run, her heart pounding came from, that era. And then my grandfather, Clarence Patrick Murphy, a real Irish name, half Danish, but in fact his mother was Danish. He was working there from about age 16 and he was born about 1885 I believe, so he would have been there about 1901 and he was already working as a fireman as a teenage boy. He couldn't finish school, at Sacred Heart School on upper 25th where he went. He would bend over all the way to Wyoming shoveling coal. He told a tale later that even as a 16 year old boy of working with his back bent to shovel coal all the way from Ogden to Evanston and back just almost constantly shoveling coal to get up that grade to that high plateau in Wyoming. It was not the life that any of us would want to live I am sure, to spend back breaking hours to make a living. He was a devoted member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineman and Firemen throughout his life and was a lifelong democrat of course, because of the 13 Democrats alliance with the labor unions. He was also one of the shop stewards of the Union Pacific in his later years. He also worked on the old Oregon Shortline Railroad, which was, he fondly would say, "Oregon Shortline," and his eyes would drift off as he thought about it. I guess the Oregon Shortline was, ran from Ogden to Pocatello, if I'm not mistaken, and didn't obviously it didn't go all the way to Oregon. He was the switching engineer which would be, he would build trains by bringing cars from one train and hauling them to join another train and then back and forth all day in the yards of Ogden. He'd go over those yards, and of course today, there's even I guess some activity there, but back in those days the yards were just a hive of energy and the sound of the rails and the squeaking of the iron against iron and you would hear all the noises associated with all that. The station where I went as, this would have been approximately 1955. My grandmother, my California grandmother, my father's mother, would come up from across the Lucin Cutoff across the Great Salt Lake on the Union Pacific from Promontory Point to West Weber and she would, we'd meet her at the Union Station whenever she'd come to visit us. That's where I got to see the Union Station quite a bit as a boy. There would be three or four taxi cabs, several cars coming and going and people were dressed—in those days the women wore gloves and hats and high heels all the time and the men wore business suits and big fedora hats. The railway express, REA railway express agency had a large outlet in the foyer of the station. 14 Just going in to the foyer of the Union Depot was to me, one of the most exciting things of my childhood because I would go in there and look around and seeing people coming and going, people making orders and carrying tickets, porters carrying baggage and porters with red caps on and white uniforms and white jackets. All black men, the only black people I had ever seen at that time in my life were down in the depot. Sorry, I get a little emotional sometimes when I'm talking about these things. I have to take a breath here for a moment. There was a very busy barbershop with an old fashioned striped aprons that, or whatever they called those things that they, smocks, that they would put around people being, having their hair cut. They had the talcum powder brushes and the barber clipping away furiously, and people in a hurry to get on, "I don't want to miss my train," and all those things. The station itself, getting inside was just, it seemed like the biggest building I had ever seen in my life at that time, probably was, and it, the big chandeliers and it was just, in its heyday was just packed with passengers and train schedules and the public address system announcing what was going on. I didn't even know what the people were doing as a boy, I had no concept of what riding a train was because we didn't actually get on the trains, so we never went out on the platforms and so all I saw was just the results of all that. What I observed was a little confusing because I didn't put it together that these people are coming from California or Chicago or wherever it may be. This really was the junction city of the Mountain West and it really was a big deal. It was so sad to see the old down town, as I'm sure you've heard from a 15 lot of people, to see what happened to that wonderful downtown on Washington Boulevard. Again, that's another subject for a book you could write about, Washington Boulevard in its heyday. Beuhler Bingham and B and B Clothiers, the Blue Door and all those fabulous clothing stores and Fred M. Nye that were able, because the economy was so powerful then with Hill Field and the Army Depot and the Naval Supply Depot and all those things, and then the railroad. Everybody was making money and it was sort of the golden age of Ogden. I guess from about the end of World War Two till roughly the time I graduated from Ben Lomond, about 1965, for about those twenty years that downtown district was just thriving. There was Watson and Tanner and 24th street was almost equal to Washington and its level of commercial activity and it was a really nice feeling to the town. There wasn't a lot of crime for the most part, you didn't hear about a lot of—we had, my mother had a friend, Officer Keith Burkdahl, who was a policeman. I remember she got—I guess one of the early beat nicks, there were a handful of beatniks I guess, in Ogden, that maybe were smoking marijuana and this guy hit her at 25th and Monroe. It was at night and he had dark glasses on, and he had sideburns and this would have been 1955 or 56 around the time Elvis was big. We just thought that was so bizarre that this fellow was dressed in this leather jacket and he had sideburns and he had dark glasses on and it's nighttime, you know, why are you wearing—it is kind of odd even now. Keith Burkdahl investigated this because my mother happen to. His wife was a good friend of my mothers and he was a patrolman and so he said, "Yea, we caught 16 this guy and arrested this guy." They finger printed him and everything. I was excited by that. It was, there were some rough characters in Ogden and who knows maybe he was using heroin or something too, or maybe he was associated with 25th street, but we never found out. Whenever I would encounter the Ogden police, I can remember in 1956, the Ogden Police had four brand new blue Fords that they got and they all, they had no markings, anywhere on the car. They were painted, I think, if I remember correctly they were a dark royal blue and they had just about the size of a coffee cup, maybe a large coffee cup, on top was a red, just a red light, and that's all, and a radio antenna, and not anywhere on the car did it say police, anywhere. It just is so funny to look back at that, we'd walk through City Hall Park and of course that was the police station back then. It was in the back of the city hall building, and you'd walk through city hall park and I'd see maybe eight or nine Fords with that bubble light on top, and maybe a couple of unmarked cars. That was the, such as it was, the Ogden police at that time. There's another story, you could do the history of the Ogden Police because they must have some tales to tell if you come across one of the retiree's from the Ogden police or somebody, the son of a police officer, I'd bet you'd get some great stories. Arnie Jacobson might be a good source because his dad. I don't know what became of him, I haven't been in touch with him in years, but his dad, I know was the chief about 1970, they had the police radio in their house because his dad was the chief, so he would hear all the radio calls in Ogden as a 17 boy. You get into some personal information sometimes, but he got run out of the house. LR: Well speaking of growing up, did you ever attend any of the theaters downtown? JV: Yes, the movies? LR: Yes. JV: Yea, we loved the Orpheum, thank you for reminding me. The Orpheum and the Egyptian, but the Orpheum even more so, it was sadly destroyed. The most exciting, fun thing we ever did I think was about 1959 and Ogden was just in its glory days at that time. We, there was a girl next door, Susanne Sylvester, who I had a crush on, and I forget who else. Anyway, we were all about 12 or 13 years old and our parents escorted us, and we got all dressed up and went to, I put on a tie and a sports coat and the girls were dressed up and we just, we just thought that was the most fun we had ever had. We went to the Orpheum and saw a movie, I can't remember what the movie was now. It was just going to the theater down, either the Egyptian or the Orpheum was just one of the special things about that time in life when you are coming of age. I think for almost anyone who was there at that time would remember it well. LR: So is that the theater that had the Popeye Club? JV: I don't know. You know, I don't know about the Popeye Club. Actually when you said that it was the first time I've heard that term. LR: Oh really, okay. JV: I must have missed out. LR: It might have been Paramount. I get my theaters mixed up, I apologize. 18 JV: The Popeye Club, maybe the Paramount was, Popeye Copper Club, Ogden, or Popeye—it says here, I am doing a little web search. I remember the Paramount was where the Paramount Bowl was, is that right? LR: I'm not sure. JV: Where the river, by the river bridge? Where the Ogden sign, is that right? LR: I'm honestly not sure, I thought it was downtown myself. I know the Orpheum and the Egyptian were. I thought the Paramount was too, so. JV: Let's see here, we had a friend who lived right by the Ogden bridge, the Ogden sign, where the Ogden sign in on the east side of Washington. There was this very interesting neighborhood there that reminds, as I got older and look back at it, I thought, "Oh my gosh, that's a lot like big city's back east." It reminded me of, in some ways. I remember the Paramount Bowling alley. When you said Paramount I thought more of a bowling alley then I did of a theater. Then there was a drive in too, and there may have been called the Paramount, there was the Riverdale Drive-in, and there was a drive-in on the south end of town was the Riverdale and going up towards North Ogden was, that Harrisville area there was a drive-in out that way, the North Point Drive- In. The drive-ins, of course, when you're a teenager in those days, it was where all the necking and all that went on. Exciting dates or all the wishful thinking for boys mostly was going on. I know there was a Paramount theater, maybe if I put movie theater, Ogden Utah, my search engine isn't generating a lot right now on that. Let's see, as it opened on the, oh, here it says, "The Paramount theater opened as the 19 Alhambra theater, March 17, 1915 with a concert by the Ogden Tabernacle Choir." There's one reference there, its Cinema treasure. Oh, here we go, 2429 Keisel Avenue. LR: Ah, that's right. JV: Oh, the Alhambra. So here is a, I vaguely remember this photo, I mean this store front. It's located on Keisel, just off of, I think just off 24th, because that looks like the Fred J. Keisel building. LR: Yes, it would have been on the opposite, it would have been closer to 25th. It's actually not there anymore, they tore it down. JV: Yea, I bet it's gone. That's my granddad's era for sure, those old street lights and globe street lights and the old early automobiles. LR: What are some of your favorite memories of downtown Ogden then? JV: Well, to be honest, it was the pretty girls you would see. You would see very, very pretty girls, you'd see dozens of girls that would just you know, traffic stop kind of thing where you'd go, "wow." It was also just the feeling that it was exciting, it was a pleasant city. There was a lunch counter near 25th and Washington, Keeley's Café. You'd go in, it was a bustling café, downtown café—going in and having lunch there. There was also a toy shop near there, and my grandfather doted on me, I was his favorite, out of the five grandchildren I was the oldest one and he liked, I don't know, he and I just bonded and he would take me in as a boy and bought me a pistol set, a cowboy pistol set from this store and I don't know the name. It was a toy store near the Broom hotel and it had just all kinds of cowboy toys all 20 over the walls, and this was a pretty big, pretty large, you know, reasonably large toy store and he bought me this holster and toy gun and toy bullets and I think it was probably one of my happiest moments in childhood. Then going on that date to the Orpheum was another one. The Utah Noodle Parlor was always fun to go to and having the big butterfly shrimp that they still make I think, I think they're still there somewhere. LR: No, they actually closed down. JV: Oh, they closed down? LR: Yea, it hasn't been that long, but Utah Noodle is no more. JV: Oh, that's too bad. That was a great tradition, but I guess Jimmies Flower shop is still there probably. That was a great flower shop. I didn't know the Glassman's, I guess you've come across A L Glassman, the name A L Glassman, but he was the operator of the Orpheum it says. Have you come across the Name Ira Huggins? He was the great attorney, probably the most famous attorney in Ogden. LR: I'm not sure. JV: Ira Huggins was—my mother would speak of him very fondly. I found a URL here, its Cinema Treasures, and it has a lot about the Paramount Theater, 2429 Keisel. This might be a page you want to look at it. It's Cinematreasures.org/theaters/26282, [some of the information that follows come directly from this website.] This is a lot of information I wasn't aware of here about the publisher . Glassman, of course, owned the Standard Examiner and apparently owned this theater also at some point and one of its premier 21 attractions was Cecil B. De Mill, The Ten Commandments. In 1925 it was leased by Public Theaters and renamed Paramount Theater so it started as the Alhambra, I guess. Glassman also owned the Orpheum but he bought the Alhambra in 1923 and then, according to this web site, during the summer months, Orpheum Vaudeville moved to the Alhambra, so they had Vaudeville, wow, now that's very interesting. In 1925 the Alhambra was leased by the Publix Theaters and renamed Paramount Theater, so that's where they got the Paramount. It underwent a complete renovation and seating was reduced to 1900 one of its premier attractions was Ten Commandments. Not the one in the 1950s but the original. By 1927 the theater was under the direction of Brooklyn-born Louis Marcus, who also owned major theaters in Salt Lake, including the Capital and other theaters in Idaho. Fanchon & Marco "Ideas" supplemented the screen attractions at the Paramount. With the demise of the American Theatre in Salt Lake in 1929, the Paramount boasted being Utah's largest theatre. Wow, I didn't know any of this. In 1929 Marcus said he was selling his interest to Publix Theaters and retiring. He was elected mayor of Salt Lake from 32 and served four years and died in 1939. 1934 it came under the ownership of Paramor Theatres who also operated the Orpheum Theatre, Lyceum Theatre and Colonial Theatre. The local Ogden Theatre was an independent. So there is quite a story there of just the theater industry in Ogden. In July of 1954, Paramor Theatres completed renovations which gave it all new seating and a 42' by 21' screen. In time for Christmas 1954, a new marquee and Paramount vertical sign in addition to the Formica snack bar 22 was added to the interior. And that's when "White Christmas" came out with Bing Crosby. So, you'll probably want to look at that website for sure. LR: Yea, I wrote it down so I'll be able to. JV: It's not that much information but it has this one wonderful old photo of the Alhambra. LR: Hmm, that's cool. JV: Yea, also, I would recommend to you to see UCR.edu. LR: Right, I wrote that down too. JV: Yea, and if you can't—that website is a little obtuse—it's something like digital newspaper survey and it's California papers, but remarkably, like I say, especially the San Francisco papers, have lots and lots of Ogden's lore and stories, especially around the time of 1890 to 1930, which would be of great value to anyone doing research at the university there. Then you can form a partnership with the UC Riverside, maybe the two schools could maybe get together on helping each other, because I know that educators always need support and they have to help each other and there is always the threats of budget cuts and things like that. I know he was, that fellow at UC Riverside was saying, "Oh we've got to prove to the regents of the university that we are doing something of value to the community so that they won't shut us down." I wrote, personally when I was a park ranger, wrote a couple of paragraphs saying how much value I've gotten out of it. You're able to, or course with your printer on your computer, you're able to print stories up if you want, or photos. They also have photos too, because you're looking at the actual paper and you can see the old historic ads. 23 LR: Right, that's fun. JV: Yea, it's really fun. You sound like you're a history lover too, so you'd have a field day with that probably. LR: I have two more questions if that's alright JV: It's been a lifelong love for me. ___________ being a park ranger, it was one of the great joys of being a park ranger was being able to give history tours, you know how it's just limited to Alcatraz history, which has quite a colorful history of course. LR: I know it's kind of getting, this has kind of gone long, but I have two more questions if that is ok. JV: Yeah, sure. LR: My first one is, you talked about your grandfather being involved in the Klan in Ogden, do you know much about that? JV: No, he was, I think he was a little ashamed of it. He, I know, it's really unfortunate I can't ask any of these folks any questions or maybe my aunt, who is still alive might know something about it. She lives in Portland, Oregon. I could ask her but she would have been embarrassed about it too. I know that he talked in racial terms about when he would watch the prize fights, Gillette Prize fights on television and he would, there was definitely a palpable racism present when he would—see a black man fighting a white man or something in a Prize fight. The only reason I know about the Klan was that my mother told me that, he didn't tell me himself he was a member of the Klan. I think he was embarrassed. He was certainly not proud of it. 24 I heard, now, I'm trying to place where I heard the recollection by some, probably from my mother, that they had put some burning crosses up on, I think the north east bench, up around, somewhere around where Ben Lomond High stands today. Up on 7th or 7th street, upper 7th street probably or somewhere where it would be seen for miles around or hoped anyway. Just to terrorize the poor black folks a little more, and probably it would have been, I'm sure they didn't like Asians either, or Jews of course. There were a handful of Jewish people too in Ogden so those groups would have been not too thrilled, I'm sure, to see that. I could try and ask Aunt Patty, she's Jennings Olsen's sister by the way, my aunt. He was the professor there at Weber for many years. She may know something about it also, and if you want, I could call you back if I'm able to find out more. The KKK was organized in all 48 states in the 1920s per public television documentary. LR: It's just a curiosity. I will leave that entirely up to you. It was just a—really, someone who was involved, so I wouldn't complain but I don't want you to feel like you have to do that or anything. JV: Well, I'm always willing to help, it's fascinating. What I have found with history and the more you dig, the more interesting it is. LR: Well this is true, I agree. JV: You reminded me of that little neighborhood around the Ogden sign there on the east side of Washington that, I wish I could relive that. Also there was something— I went to visit a friend who lived right there. There was a little alley that shot off of Washington and I think it said Paramount Bowl and it was across 25 from Bigler's Desert Inn, which was an old structure that is no longer there either. We fished in the Ogden river briefly, just once, it only happened once, I went to see him and we fished in the river. It was kind of odd, it seemed like, because here it is almost like in downtown but also almost like out in the country at the same time. It was a really nice little district there that I haven't seen any photos of, but I can picture it in my head as I close my eyes I can see it. There were store fronts right the river and I think a concrete fence or something against the river bank itself, but I'm sure it's all gone now. All that's left is the historic sign there now, but it's fun to reminisce anyway. LR: Well, my last question is this, how has Ogden changed since you were growing up here, do you think? JC: It had that timing, you know, 24th and Washington was the heart of the city and it was the heart of Ogden, it really was like the heart. It was just like a human body has a heart, it was the heart of the city and it was a thriving heartbeat. I remember a young boy yelling, "Standard," and he used to actually hold up the newspaper in his arm and wave it and people would run up and buy a newspaper. It was from the Bon Marché store which was at 22nd to about 26th or 27th along Washington, was just bustling with traffic, excitement. The ladies were dressed in their finest clothes and men were dressed in business suits, and not everyone dressed that way, but it was certainly a thriving place and then along 24th, almost the same scene. It's just sad to see that, well it's happened to many cities; it's not just Ogden, that the core of the city got gutted and changed irreparably. It's too bad 26 that it couldn't have been like what was done with Trolley Square in Salt Lake where they at least maybe changed the buildings, but don't gut every, just don't tear everything completely. The W. T. Grant store was a big deal on 24th and Washington and there was the Kiesel building and the Eccles building and the First Security Bank building and it had this little sky line and it was just, I don't know, it just seemed like a really, really positive. Overall, 25th kind of gave you the vice and a little excitement and drama, which was also kind of fun, and it just kind of was a really nice place to grow up. It sort of represented America, to me. I wrote a little article when I was a boy about it and I took a world book and I followed the outline they used to write about Chicago or New York and I just took every element, and Ogden had it all, in miniscule amounts. It had a little Asian neighborhood, it had a black neighborhood, it had everything in America and it was a, in a microcosm, it was the country. It's sad to a, I'm sorry, LR: It's okay. JV: Makes me feel bad to see that all that is lost. I know there is some of it there still. The Egyptian Theater is still there, but, LR: You're right, most of it is gone. JV: We would get, to go down to Washington Boulevard was a big deal and we would put on our best clothes and we would, yea, it was just a big deal. Even when I started working at the highway department on 17th and Wall or near, just off Wall, at the Utah Highway, Utah Road Commission, we looked forward to driving along Washington Boulevard just for the fun of seeing people on the street and seeing 27 all the excitement that it used to represent. I don't know, it's just, thank you for letting me share all that, and if I can come up with some more goodies I'll certainly call you. Also you're always welcome to call me if you need any more that I can provide, and thanks again for what you are doing. LR: Well, thank you for being so willing to help us out, I appreciate that, and for your stories, they've been wonderful and I appreciate you're willingness to work with us and to do this. We've been on the phone now for almost an hour and 20 minutes so I appreciate your time and your willingness, it means a lot. JV: Well great, Okay Lorrie, keep in touch, and any time I can be of assistance, who knows, maybe your or I or both of us may write books about it, who knows. LR: That would be fun. JV: It's worthy of some good books, I can think of three right now that would be worthy books about that era. But anyway, have a great day. 28

M. Diane Krantz, April 4, 2014 ; The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ; The following is an interview with Dr. Diane Krantz conducted on April 4, 2014 by Ruby Licona. Dr. Krantz discusses her early life and her career at Weber State University from 1995 to 2011. ; 39p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 video disc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program M. Diane Krantz Interviewed by Ruby Licona 4 April 2014 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah M. Diane Krantz Interviewed by Ruby Licona 4 April 2014 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Krantz, Diane., an oral history by Ruby Licona, 4 April 2014, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii M. Diane Krantz April 4, 2014 Abstract: The following is an interview with Dr. Diane Krantz conducted on April 4, 2014 by Ruby Licona. Dr. Krantz discusses her early life and her career at Weber State University from 1995 to 2011. RL: Today is April 4, 2014. I'm Ruby Licona from the Stewart Library at Weber State University. Also present is Stacie Gallagher, our video technician. We are speaking with Dr. Diane Krantz, who came to Weber State in 1995, retired just a couple of years ago and is never still for a moment. Every time I encounter her she's got plans for one activity or another, so she's not a shy retiring kind of person, she is living her life to the fullest. Good morning, Diane, and thank you for coming in to talk with us. DK: Good morning, Ruby, thank you for the privilege of donating my thoughts to the library. RL: Well, we are anxious to learn about you. To that effort, why don't you start out telling us a little bit about your origins and some of the things with which you were involved prior to coming to Weber State? You did not come here straight out of—well, you came straight out of your Ph.D., but that was a few years following your bachelor's degree. So, why don't you talk to us a little bit about that? DK: Okay. Well, I was born in a small coal town in Pennsylvania called Carbondale. I was a very devout Catholic and always wanted to be a religious woman, so when I graduated from high school, I entered a convent that was in the town where I 1 was living. I got a bachelor's degree in mathematics from St. Louis University, ultimately, and was credentialed to teach math. I taught elementary school math for three years and then went on to high school math and got my master's in teaching mathematics from Fairfield University. I taught high school mathematics for 17 years. RL: That was at Fairfield University in Connecticut? DK: Yes. RL: So, how did you get from St. Louis to Connecticut? DK: Well, actually, I started in Pennsylvania. We moved to Connecticut and then after I had taken my vows, I was transferred from the convent in Connecticut to St. Louis. Actually, my first foray there in higher education was a sister's college called Mirallac College. It was for religious women. I was there for a year, but there program was so convoluted; it would have taken me five more years after my Associate of Arts degree to get my bachelor's. So, the Provincial and I decided I would go to St. Louis University. Then I taught for three years in the elementary school in St. Louis and was transferred back to the high school in Connecticut to teach there. Math teachers, even in the convent, are at a premium especially because a lot of sisters did not go directly on for their degrees. They got them part-time. Getting a math degree that way could take 12 or 13 years. I was going full-time, so I managed to get mine in a reasonable amount of time. I got a National Science Foundation grant, so most of my master's degree was free for me and the convent. So, that was nice. I taught many years, as I said, in the high school and religious life somewhat changed and I began to—a lot of 2 women left religious life during those following years as the church became—as their thinking became more modern. I always thought I was in it for the long haul, but I began to realize at one point that I had become somewhat like my mother in the sense of not knowing my own mind after a while. I was following superiors and I wasn't thinking for myself anymore. I didn't know, actually, what I wanted. At that point, I decided that I would at least try life outside the convent. So, when I was in my early 40's, I had permission to live outside the convent for two years and at that point I had been transferred to California and taught part-time in an elementary school while I looked into attending the University of California at Davis. I had requested to get a Ph.D., but that wasn't common at that time among the sisters, so I was refused for that. I went on—I was enrolled in the master's program. I spent two years and I think most people that knew me from the convent assumed that I was enough of a flake that I would never manage in the outside world. But, it turned out that I had my father's sense of economics, so I did very well, actually. By that time, I had decided that it was time for me to try a new direction in life. So, I was enrolled in the English program at U.C. Davis and I made a formal request for dispensation from my vows and received it. I then went on to get a Ph.D. at the University of California at Davis. RL: So, you got relieved of your vows in, what, the late 80's? DK: Yeah, it would have been about 1985 or 1986. A Ph.D. would take seven years at U.C. Davis if you didn't have—well, I didn't even have a bachelor's degree in English, so that was a little bit more of a challenge. At any rate, I got a Regents Fellowship my first year there and then forgot to apply for it the second year. I 3 ended up with fellowships in teaching, but the University of California system was very generous at that time and it had a lot of money, so they actually paid me what I considered a full salary, although, my colleagues in the English Ph.D. program were not doing quite as well because they were more used to being on their own and spending money as they wished. RL: They hadn't been in the religious life. DK: They had not been living a vow of poverty, right. After a year, while I was still debating, I said, "What would be the one thing I would be sorry for if I went back in the convent? What would I be sorry not to have done?" So, I took a trip to Europe—a bus trip to Europe. It was one of those bus trips where, "It's Tuesday, this must be Belgium." And it was literally like that. You got up in the morning and it was Belgium and you were going to go back on the bus and over to Holland all that day and then you'd spend a couple of days in Holland and then go on to the Rhine. That was very exciting. I had thought if I had a chance to go back to Europe, it would be nice to have an overview of it, so that's why I went on that particular trip. I was still a little bit behind for my doctorate. My father died in the meantime. My mother died three weeks before I left the convent, so that was a little traumatic because, a) I wasn't expecting it and, b) that her timing was impeccable to make me feel guilty. I failed the exams I took right after my father's death, so they gave me another chance. So, I did get through my exams and my defense of my dissertation. Then I realized I couldn't finish the dissertation on time and they would cut off my teaching pay, but there was an opportunity to go 4 to Germany on an exchange and that would be fully funded—by the Germans, actually. Because I was, shall we say, older, and also had several master's degrees they paid me through the nose in Germany. So, I was very well off in Germany. RL: Did you go to Germany to teach? DK: I went to Germany on an exchange of doctoral students to teach at the University of Mainz. So I lived in Mainz and traveled again through parts of Europe. I enjoyed my time there and taught six classes the first semester and seven the next, but German classes are much different than American classes as I learned. Students basically don't hand in anything until the end or they take three Claysure tests if they're not on that type of a schedule. It was probably less work with the six classes there than with my high school teaching, so it worked out very well for touring. After I came back from Germany, about a month before I had to hand in my dissertation, I had some work on graphics to do because I hadn't had a Mac computer there. I got my three signatures and the Ph.D. and then had a post doc at U.C. Davis for a year and applied for jobs. I got four responses. I was much more careful the second time I applied than the first time I applied. The first time, in Germany, I sent out a hundred applications and I wasn't specific at all. The second time when I was back in the United States, I said, "I'm going to research these universities." I think I applied to four and I got responses from two. One was Weber State and the other was the University of Puerto Rico at Mayaguez. The only thing that really attracted me there was that they had one of the large 5 radio telescopes at Arecibo, I think it is. At any rate, it wasn't too far from Arecibo. But, I don't speak Spanish. I was worried that the cultural differences, not for me, but the differences between the rich and the poor there would be a source of constant pain to me. The other thing, of course, was that by this time with both parents dead, my siblings were living across the country. One was in Connecticut, one in Iowa and one in Portland, Oregon. So, I would never get any visits if I stayed in Puerto Rico because it would have been quite a long trip for them. I decided that I would be happier all around accepting the job at Weber. When I came to Weber, I was really impressed with the English people who met me. Tom Burton was my predecessor in the English Department and he met me at the airport, shepherded me into Ogden and was very sweet, very kind, and very helpful. Then, I went through the interview process and was very impressed with the committee, with their friendliness, their warmth and their welcoming—also by the efficiency of the process, because I had been waiting for months to hear from Puerto Rico whether I was being offered the job or not. At this point, I was sort of disappointed that they had taken so long, but also it just seemed like a better fit to come to Weber State. So, I mean, it was largely the charm of the English Department people that I met that drew me here. RL: Can you remember who was on your search committee? DK: Well, there was Tom Burton. Levi Peterson was Chair at the time. Sally Shigley was on the search committee. John Schwiebert may have been on the search committee and Michael Wutz might have been, but I'm not sure. These later became close friends. That's as much as I remember. I remember Sally because 6 I was going to teach one of her classes—her Renaissance class—as part of my interview process. She had sent me information and I had prepared to teach something about George Herbert, a 17th Century poet. So, I remembered her of course and I met her on the committee. After that it becomes a little bit of a blur in the nervous tension one feels when one's life is basically hanging in the balance. RL: Yeah, you get a lot of really big butterflies, don't you? DK: Right. Actually, the teaching went well because part of it was that I—having taught so much in the years previously and when students were not always being very cooperative. I had also taught at U.C. Davis as well as at Mainz, so I had a lot of teaching experience behind me. So, I had kind of a dynamic in the classroom that I wanted to set up, and Sally had prepared her students very well to be kind to me, I think. So, the class went just very well, and that made it a much more positive experience than if I'd kind of lost it in the classroom, so I enjoyed that. RL: So, your first impressions, of course, were formed by the search committee and by the department. When you got here, having taught in—I'm not certain the size of U.C. Davis, but I know U.C. Berkeley was tremendous. Did you notice a difference in the students when you finally got here? DK: I think I noticed a larger range in the students. I had bright students. I had students who were very capable and well-prepared at Weber State, but I also seemed to have a number of students who were struggling from the time that they got into my classroom. So, that was a difference because the students at 7 U.C. Davis tended to be more homogeneous. They weren't all happy to be there. They weren't all happy with their majors, etc.—I had several encounters with students who were telling me how they had been forced to major in science rather than in English, which was their love. The parents, I think, put a lot more pressure on the students at U.C. Davis also, which you could say, "It's the cost," except, it wasn't the cost. At that point, the price of U.C. Davis was very low, but— RL: Well, I think there's probably a difference in all of the U.C. campuses. They have very high admissions standards as far as GPA's and background and SAT scores and so forth. Here at Weber, with open enrollment— DK: Right. It wasn't quite open at the time. Some of my English colleagues were very miffed at that because I think Bob Smith had put some limitations on admissions, which didn't seem high to me, but there were a few things in place. That changed as I stayed here, but it's also possible that some of the students as U.C. Davis would not have been as motivated as students at Weber State in the sense that their parents may have been paying for their education. Whereas here—and that was I think the biggest shock—to find so many of the students were working full-time. That was my biggest surprise at Weber State. RL: The nontraditional aspect of it. So many of them come back from a mission and get married and are supporting at least a spouse if not children. That makes a big difference. DK: Yes, it did. One had to be conscious of that in terms of how much time students were able to put into their studies. I always kept my standards fairly high, but 8 then that had been my problem since I was teaching first grade. I was always like one year beyond what the students were capable of until I got to the master's program here, and at that point we all came together as to where I expected them to be and where they were. That was a very happy experience. I was very impressed here with a lot of the women students who were very very bright and very well read and just seemed capable of handling a ton of things at the same time. That was impressive. At U.C. Davis, it would probably be just the student and her books. RL: Well, and also, I think the difference in having the commuter campus as opposed to students living on campus or right close by, does make a difference too. Now, you'd been teaching in earlier years, probably in Catholic schools, and having been in a religious background, what was your reaction to coming to Utah to a totally different religious environment or approach to religion? What were your impressions? DK: Well, of course, the first thing I did was draw kind of a parallel between my own times in Catholic school as a very devout young person with the students here. The one annoying part of it was that the students, oftentimes, are much narrower in their approach. Not more narrow than conservative Catholics, certainly, at all, but much more narrow in their thinking than, for instance, the students at U.C. Davis. I was teaching a class in persuasion and I drew up a list of topics that I wanted the students to argue and the students invariably chose positions diametrically opposite to what I would argue. Of course, if they argued well they got an 'A' on the papers, but it began to dawn on me that this was, politically, the 9 state was very much the opposite of what I had left in California, in the north of California. Because as someone once pointed out to me, Southern California is so conservative that they've had mostly Republican governors, so, but that wasn't true the year I was in in Davis. So, it was the political rather than the religious element that I found challenging when I taught my students. RL: And yet that's surprising because Ogden is fairly different from the rest of the state. DK: Well, some people have called Weber "little BYU," so there was, at least historically, a group of very conservative men who were leading the university. Now, that's actually changed as I've been here. It's been wonderful to see women assume leading roles at the university, so at one point I had a—and this was exciting for me—a woman president, a woman Dean, and a woman Department Chair. It spoke well for Weber's openness to women and to their advancement. I think that colored life to a certain extent on the campus. One incident that occurred in English was that a student was complaining—I guess to a teacher, it wasn't to me. The teacher told him he should talk to the Chair because that would be his right, so he went to the Chair and I guess he was very disgruntled to find out that there was a woman Chair. She said, "Well, you can go on up, but the Provost, the Dean, and the President are all women also." It sort of gave him a little more perspective on what women's roles were, at least at this university. Not necessarily what he thought women's roles would be. This was a person from one of the Middle Eastern 10 countries, so, of course, the culture that he was from would have suggested that women didn't belong in such roles. He got his eyes opened very quickly. RL: But I think one of the things that we've been very lucky about is that women who have served in these capacities are so capable and have been so successful in carrying out their assignments and their missions. DK: Absolutely. RL: That's become more and more common in Arts and Humanities and other areas at the University too. Of course, President Milner, who just stepped down not that long ago, had that love and respect of everyone in the legislature and all of the people in higher education and so forth. I think she has set a really high standard that other women will be striving to reach. DK: And men. I mean, basically, because her political acuity was so great she constantly kept the legislators on our side despite the economic problems of the times, and Weber has continued to grow from this enormously. So, of course, it says a lot for Weber. RL: She gained a lot of respect for the institution. Weber had always been a little brother kind of place. I think it's risen in people's viewpoints. DK: Well, in fact, I've been very impressed at times reading just a little bit in the past five years about some nationally known figures from Weber and people certainly making their mark in our culture and in the American culture as a whole. Of course, I have to say that when I told my mentors at U.C. Davis that I was coming to Weber State, their first reaction was, "Oh, the winners of the Big Sky 11 conference." I said, "Well, I had never heard of Weber State, but the men at U.C. Davis certainly were very respectful." RL: That was right after the time that I think they had beat out both North Carolina and Michigan in the NCAA. First round they knocked them flat on their backsides. DK: Great. Yes. RL: I mean, with me, people would say, "Weber State? You came here from Weber State? Never heard of it." Then, all of sudden, they got the reports and it was, "Ruby, is that your Weber State?" It made quite an impression. As you say, it was not necessarily women, but the men that—well at least they didn't say, "Why?" or "Where in the world is that?" It gave a little bit of information to hang things on. It sounds like you were happy with the choice of coming here. DK: I was very happy. One of the things I've always appreciated about Weber is its people, I think of my department—and my department is very, very large and very diverse and tends to be like herding cats to a certain extent. People could have sticking points about things that you thought, "Well, this will be just a little conversation," and all of a sudden there's a big uproar. Yet, I always felt a kind of warmth, a kind of encouragement from my colleagues all through my career. I never felt, as I think often happens at large research schools, like I was competing in order to get tenure, in order to get promotion and in order to get various and sundry privileges that went with my job. The students also are very warm and very accepting of a lot of different things. Not necessarily different ideas, depending on which students you're talking about. It's quite possible that, of course, the composition classes are where I would hit this type of negative 12 response and that's because I would have students from across the campus, and I think some other departments may be a little bit more rigid in their thinking than the arts and humanities and even—well, not even, but the social sciences also would be in how they think about issues and how they think about people. I always felt like this—I always felt very comfortable around and accepted by both the faculty and the students. RL: You mentioned Tom Burton and Levi Peterson who were highly respected and very accomplished in their areas. Did they or any others—I realize you came here as an older person, but did anyone work in the capacity of a mentor for you? DK: I was thinking about that question because we didn't have a formal mentorship at the time in English or, as far as I know, across campus. But, Sally, Judy Elsley, and Priti Kumar included me in their lunch sessions together and I think that was a kind of mentoring. That was in my first maybe five years where we met all the time. We met on a regular basis, and they were very helpful about different things. Levi, of course, kept an eye on people. He would give you hints about things. Then, when I became Women's Studies Coordinator, which was in, I believe, my third year, that's its own little story, but Gloria Wurst had been coordinator the year before, and she very much took me under her wing in terms of how to go about taking care of the program. RL: The program was fairly new when you got here. DK: Well, yes. 13 RL: In 1990 or 1991, and I think Gloria was probably the second director. She was very invested in it and remains so even now. DK: Yes. Literally invested. RL: The three women that you mentioned that included you in their lunches, they were highly involved with the women's program in the early days. So, again, that's an example of the strong women that have been coming to Weber in the last 20 or 25 years. So, you became involved with the Women's Studies Program through them or just through seeing things about it on campus? DK: I'm not sure how I got word of the annual meeting—the Women's Studies annual meeting. I think it must have been my second year of being at Weber State that I either learned of it from something that was sent out or it's possible that Sally or Judy mentioned it to me. Anyway, I went to the meeting and we were concluding the business and they said, "Well, we need a coordinator for next year. Diane, what about you?" "Okay, let me think what skills I have." I had been Department Chair, of course, at both high schools that I had taught at, so I had some administrative experience under my belt—certainly not the amount that I could have used, but again, Women's Studies Coordinator is for three years and it's basically the secretary that runs the program. Really the point of that is that people promised to be supportive and mentoring in that position. The only drawback was I didn't have tenure yet, but I guess they decided they would take a chance. I think they thought that maybe having been a nun, I had some sense of how women should organize things and run them and be good to other women. So, I did in fact take on the job and Gloria 14 gave a lot of help. We had Norma, who was secretary, who had been secretary for Gloria but she wanted to retire at Christmas time, so we went on search for another secretary and we found Linda Shoemake. She was spectacular. She came from—she had been in an office for, I think the public schools for a long time and she came and she was fully invested in the program and extremely good at communicating with the other secretaries. Of course, Women's Studies is an interdepartmental program. RL: It's all volunteer. DK: Right. It's all volunteer and inter-departmental, so you have to be able to communicate with secretaries across campus in order to know what's going on and how you should be operating. Linda actually mastered the budget, which no one before or since, I think, has done. We actually did quite well with that, except that at one point I actually went hat in hand to five deans to beg for some money for Women's Studies. So, that was a really interesting experience for me to meet the deans in other colleges. So, Linda just really helped and I had set up—Gloria had actually done all the paperwork to get us through semester conversion, but I drew up sheets for the students coming in so that we could make their converting of the courses they had already taken from the quarter to semester credits easier. So, that was my accomplishment in that timeframe. Also, the University went into program evaluation and I set something of that up for Women's Studies—a sheet of criteria for whether the program was a success or not. Kathleen Lukken was the temporary Provost. I think at the time she was also in 15 charge of that evaluation program where we were looking across the University at different— RL: Accreditation and five year reviews. DK: Right. She had a website and I plugged all sorts of data in there. RL: Now, at about the time you came was when they were pushing Teaching and Learning Forum and strategic planning in different areas of the University and so forth. Were you involved in any of those activities or did you pretty much keep your nose to the grindstone with English and Women's Studies? DK: Only in terms of just setting up that evaluation criteria for Women's Studies. Of course, I participated at the Teaching and Learning Forum, but I also was trying to get—by this time Sesh was Chair and he was pushing me to get my book published so that I would be able to get Associate Professor or tenure out of that. RL: They were still doing both at that time. DK: Right, we would do this both at the same time. So, he directed me to a press where we'd probably be able to get the book published and I got an RS&PG grant—again, with the help of Sally—to change my dissertation into a book. So, that was very helpful, but— RL: What was the nature of the book? DK: It was on a medieval mystic called Julian of Norwich and—The Politics of Enclosure was what I wanted to call it, so that's what I eventually called the book itself. It was on the nature of her texts and how they focused on Jesus as mother. So, she was a medieval mystic and her visions—which she only had once, and 16 she turned out to live, we think, quite a long time—but she was a very grounded person, so she wasn't the type of mystic that's some place off in the clouds. She only had the visions once and she wrote a book from that and then after meditating for maybe 20 years on that, she wrote a longer book. So, I looked at the structure of the book in terms of enclosure and how this reflected her emphasis on Jesus as being a mother. Of course, the cognitive dissonance with that type of gender disparity that might exist for moderns was not prevalent in the medieval mind where gender was as gender did—that is to say, your actions determined your gender. Of course, your actions were highly circumscribed so they could determine you gender, but she listed qualities of Jesus that are mothering qualities. She also lived a life of enclosure, and she talks about being in Jesus, almost as in a womb, and there are different images in the Middle Ages that look at Jesus as a mother with a womb. But, that, again, would be the subject of another discussion. RL: You mentioned Bob Smith earlier as Vice President for Academic Affairs, and I think toward the end of his time here they made the change and that position was called Provost. Were you able, in your capacity as Coordinator of Women's Studies and on other committees as well, did you have much experience working with him? DK: I didn't actually. I knew his wife, Adele, much better because she was the one who was closest to Women's Studies. They gave us their cabin to use, for instance, for our annual meetings, so we did that for a couple of years. I knew and admired Bob, but I never actually worked alongside him. Probably the Dean I 17 would have worked most with would be Richard Sadler because he was the Dean for Women's Studies. June Phillips, I worked on various general education committees within the college, and we worked with her on those and also another thing on evaluation with her. There were large movements in terms of the student evaluation and program evaluation. The program evaluation was the most dynamic development change that I was witnessing as I taught here—after semester conversion which was its own little nightmare, but we managed to get through that. I worked with Levi Peterson on that when he was Chair to do semester conversion and then with Dean Phillips on those types of committees, the types of committees that looked at program review and general education development. So, those were the Deans I best knew. RL: Was Sherwood gone by the time you got here? DK: Yeah, he was no longer around. He had been replaced as Dean of Arts and Humanities by June. RL: You were here under two different presidents, Paul Thompson and Ann Milner. DK: Right. Two different Provosts—well, there was Bob Smith, there was Kathleen Lukken and Mike Vaughn while I was here. Who was the Richard that was head of diversity—well it wasn't called diversity— RL: Richard Ulaberry. DK: I did work with him because I was on the diversity committee again because, well, partly because I wanted to be there to represent Women's Studies and he wanted me to be there. He was very very supportive of Women's Studies, so I 18 tried to make sure that I worked well on that committee with him and we worked on the Diversity Conference, I don't know if the first one was one of the ones I worked on, but we worked to make the Diversity Conference a good one and handled all sorts of different issues. I, of course, was there, but first mostly to encourage looking at women's issues. RL: Then there was Mike Vaughn. Did you have occasions working with him? DK: No. I didn't work with people in their capacity as Provost at all, nor the Presidents in their capacity as presidents. As I said, Richard Ulaberry, who was Vice President for Diversity I guess at the time— RL: Assistant to the Vice President for Diversity. DK: Okay. He was the one I would have worked with and then Dean Sadler and Dean Phillips, so none of the other higher administrators. I was mostly intent of getting through my tenure and promotion process and running Women's Studies and teaching classes of which I've taught quite a few different ones. This is another appeal, I might say, of Weber State, to me—despite a Ph. D. in Medieval Literature, I am basically a generalist at heart. I love to dabble in a lot of different things, and Weber was a wonderful resource for being able to teach all sorts of different classes, and my Department Chairs encouraged and enabled that. It was easier, of course, when we were on quarters because there were simply more electives. Even when we had semester conversion and we were working in semesters I had opportunities to teach science fiction, fantasy, Perspectives in Women's Literature, some women's studies courses, the Women's Studies Critical Theory course for both women's studies and for English, and The Bible 19 as Literature. This was another happy dovetailing of my interest with what Weber State enabled. RL: So, the Weber State that you came to and the Weber State from which you retired, were different? It developed over the years and what are your impressions with the directions in which Weber has changed? DK: I've had to come to grips with having attended Jesuit universities and having been formed in a philosophy of education that came out of a Catholic background, I had a much more classical view of how a university should operate than I encountered even when I first came to Weber State and certainly throughout the decade and a half that I was here afterward. I think it's a necessary direction. I don't think it's—I mean, it would be very nice to say, "Well, this is what the University should look like." But I don't even know that's true even what is best for our country. Weber State has joined the computer revolution and the technological revolution in general. I taught all sorts of online courses and enjoyed putting courses on the internet even before it was popular. So, I had lots of material that my students were accessing through computers even before it became almost mandated that we do that. I don't like the business model of education, but I don't know if there's a way around it economically today. So, I think Weber has done what it needed to do to survive and to flourish in this particular culture—culture meaning the whole of the economic reality of the United States and its educational needs. It still needs a populous that is educated in order to keep a vibrant democracy going and even the philosophy of the Jesuits has changed with respect to that. They 20 see the need for a more democratic approach to education. So, universities may have offered scholarships to some poor but talented students in the past, but I think it's become increasingly necessary to draw in middle class and working class students because that's the only way they're going to survive economically and even politically today. People have to be savvy about those things. RL: Certainly, the level of wisdom that went into the idea of preparing Weber students for the economy and society here in Utah. I know it has paid off. There was an article recently about Weber having the highest return of investment for the schools in Utah. A greater percentage of our students are working. We do a lot more with a lot less money. Of course, when you first came, this was strictly, well, pretty much an undergraduate school. I think at that time we would have had three master's programs. DK: I don't even know if there was that many. RL: When I came there was accounting, education, and— DK: Nursing? Did nursing have one? RL: No, it was something in the social sciences area. It's grown to where we have quite a few master's program and I know when I first arrived people were saying, "There will never be doctorates at Weber." Now I'm hearing conversations in that direction. Yet, I think we're successful because we can still keep that approach to education where our faculty actually teach. They're doing research, they're publishing, they're doing all kinds of travel and gaining a lot of respect for the institution, but they still teach and they really love it. 21 DK: In fact, this is what impressed me about my replacement from Yale. She comes from a very high-powered university, obviously. She was tired of maybe the type of students who felt the world owed them a living at Yale. RL: Who was your replacement? DK: It was Samantha, and her name was changed because she was married, but I don't remember her last name right now. She turned out to be a spectacular teacher. She was so impressive in the classroom when she came for her interview that it put her at the top of the list for who we would hire. Before I left U.C. Davis, again, the economic situation changed. I heard other doctoral students at conferences like the Modern Language Association Conference, which is a big hiring place, mumbling that why would they want to go to a teaching university. I thought, "Well, maybe if you wanted a job you'd go to a teaching university because those are where the jobs are these days." So, the job market has changed. That's been a major change, but I do have to say that as I got older, it just flabbergasts me that people are so capable. These younger, incoming professors are so capable to be able to basically do everything. I'm not sure if it's the best use of their energy because it certainly must be draining on a certain number of them, but I think Weber is flourishing at this point with the type of people we've hired and the type of loyalty that both previous faculty and alumni have toward the school. I think it's on the right track for what has to be done. 22 RL: Now, you spoke about the students and how they were when you first came here and certainly the faculty and the staff have changed over the years. What are your impressions of the students? Did the face of the students also change? DK: I think, as far as the majors in English, I didn't find a big difference. I was finding in the composition students a sort of less preparedness in terms of attitude as I went on. Of course, I couldn't tell if it was because I was getting old and therefore, less patient about the type of things that they didn't want to do, like assignments. I did find that, it seemed at one point to me, and this was just a momentary dawning of an idea that the number of students—I was still getting good quality work out of most of my students and I was getting outstanding work out of some, but it seemed that there were a growing number of students who simply didn't bother with the final project. I heard other teachers complaining about the same thing. The students would be in class all semester and just not bother with the project that they needed to do in order to pass the class. That was one thing that I found to be unsettling. I don't know if it's partly because some of these students are younger in terms of they may have taken college courses while they were still in high school. RL: Advanced placement courses. DK: Yeah, advanced placement or the early college courses while they were in high school and they just weren't mature enough once they got to the university to buckle down and do the work. Or they had reached the point where they had exhausted themselves from high school and they weren't ready to take on college responsibilities, but that was a little bit of a challenge. On the other hand, 23 I was teaching master's students. I actually got to teach—and again, Merlin Cheney, who shepherded the master's program for English into its existence, was very willing to have me in that program and I found it very gratifying. I found students there who were very exceptional in terms of the quality of work they produced and their preparedness across the board for the courses that they were taking. That was a good deal of fun for me, intellectually. I also enjoyed my upper division courses quite a bit. RL: Were there students with whom you've kept in touch? DK: Actually, I do have a Facebook friend who was one of my students and then other people will say to me, "Oh, Dr. Krantz, I was one of your students." I'll see them in the grocery store or someplace else and we'll greet like that. I don't tend to be very personal in the classroom, so I didn't tend to keep a lot of students friendly, but I had, for instance, not too long before I retired, probably about five years before I retired, a student came back with—two students came back actually—they were both alumni and they had both taken a class from me and they had married and I had been at their wedding, I think. But, the sad part of that return was he was in a wheelchair. He was actually a quadriplegic because the summer after he graduated, they went to Idaho to do swimming and he dived off a cliff onto a pile of rocks. There had been storms—he had done it before in that particular spot on the river, but there had been bad storms that winter, so there was a pile of rocks where they didn't expect them. So, what was a blessing for him is he had already been hired by—it might have been BYU Idaho, I'm not sure, but he was working for the LDS church and so he had insurance that 24 summer even though he had just graduated from college. It looked like his young wife was going to be called upon to do quite a bit of work, but I was honored that they returned to talk to me, to see me as part of their return to Ogden. Then, Melissa Halverson, who was one of my students, and I used to share stories because at the time I had a pet rat and she kept pet rats, so we had something in common there, so she's one of my Facebook friends at this point. Several other students just, you know, dropped into my office when I was still on campus, but I don't correspond with anyone from here. I actually do correspond with a couple of my high school students, but that was a little bit exceptional also. I tended not to—I never believed in a classroom where you were kind of close friends with students, although people would often say, "Well, you really like so and so because she's so bright." I'd say, "Well, I also like other people that are not really doing that well in my class," so it's not fair to just say because this person is so bright is why I give her attention. I say "her" because at that time I was teaching all girls. I had a few friends among the high school students and a few friends among the students here. I attended several weddings. One of the reasons I got my second car—after which "totaling," I got my third car, which I totaled and then quit driving—at any rate, one of the reasons I got my second car was because I missed the wedding of one of the students I was friends with and I was very disappointed at that. She was just married in a place I couldn't get to by bus. So, a number of the students—a number of the men students also have come back 25 and talked to me when I was still in my office. I felt very gratified to see them and excited. RL: Do you feel like any students stand out in your mind as successes? Sometimes you take someone on and help them just a little bit and it makes a big difference. DK: I can no longer recall names. I have a terrible time with names to begin with and then I don't recall them very well afterward. I just remember some of my—the men students were very sharp, I'm not trying to downplay those at all, but just some of the women students who had such spectacular insights. I was trying to get one—I wrote a glowing letter for one student to try to get her into the University of Utah, but her ACT scores weren't good, so I actually called the head of the English department to see why they hadn't accepted her and basically, what I was accused of doing was lying for the student. The student was brilliant. She had insights into literature that I rarely encountered even in the master's level and I very much thought she belonged in a graduate program and at the time we didn't have a graduate program. He basically said he wouldn't trust any of the professors at Weber State to write letters of recommendation for their students. He said one of the letters he got for her seemed like a template. I said, "You know, I found her outstanding." I guess this is one of the signs that, in fact, my students and I did have a good relationship. I did have, over the years, a good number of requests for recommendations. There was only once when I told the student that I though perhaps she should try another professor because she hadn't done that well in my class. She hadn't done that well in anybody's class, which was why she was asking me for a recommendation, but I felt I couldn't 26 write her a good recommendation. Other students, both male and female, I could write glowing recommendations for and did. They were just very insightful. RL: Your standpoint was your different involvements of teaching that you would consider your biggest successes? Or is there something that you see as a— DK: Culminating experience? RL: Your greatest accomplishment. DK: I think having the Women's Studies program survive me is an accomplishment. I've enjoyed the teaching and I think my students have been—at least they were successful in terms of getting into higher education if they wanted to go there and that makes me very happy. For high school teaching too, over two and a half decades, I also realize that oftentimes—well, I got a letter from a students whom I had taught in high school some 15 years after I had taught the student saying how happy he was that he had me because he had encountered a situation where my advice in the classroom had gone a long way to helping him out in that situation. RL: That's always a good feeling. We'll never get rich, but it's the little gems that make it worthwhile. DK: I mean, basically, with teaching you cast your bread on the waters. It's planting ideas and I often thought—and I tried to do this with my Comp students—that I would make composition not only a course where I would teach them how to write for all of their courses in the future, but that I would also try to give them a little homely advice or advice from my own experiences as a student that I hoped 27 would one day stand them in good stead. So, I told them that sometimes it's just hanging in there that gets you a degree. It's not being the most brilliant one in the class or even necessarily the most productive one in the class, but keep persevering and it takes you a long way toward being educated. So, I think, you know, hopefully some of the students in their darker moments in college remembered that advice and kept on. RL: It sounds as though you've been rather happy with most of your accomplishments here at Weber. Any regrets about anything? DK: You'll see that at this point, I was looking to see what I had written as a regret—if I looked at anything with a regret. If I could go back, I guess what I would do is try to meet more colleagues from more of the colleges at Weber. I think I had a wonderful opportunity in terms of being on the Diversity Committee and being chair of Women's Studies to get a little bit across campus, but I think I could have got more out of some of those situations and I would have liked to have known more of my colleagues across campus that way. I did belong to—I was on the board of the employee association, the Faculty Staff association. I was on the board of that for several years and that was also a nice opportunity to meet people across campus. RL: And not just faculty members. DK: Right. Well, I've often—I have a very good rapport with the secretaries in English and the office manager in English, so I'm very pleased with that and I also got to take my dog to campus the last year I taught. I would leave him in my office. The first semester—the spring semester I took him first was because I was teaching a 28 night class and it's kind of eerie around here at night especially at nine at night. So, I said, "Well, I'm taking Benji and if somebody objects, then that will be the end of it," so I took him over and he stayed in my office while I taught and then I went back upstairs and I'd say, "Okay, we're going to take a walk home," and he was just as happy as a little lark and we walked home. By this time, of course, I had given up driving. The next semester was fall semester, I said, "Well, we got away with it in the spring, let's see what happens now." So, actually, the dean told me there were no restrictions on campus about bringing an animal. Of course, you're not supposed to bring them into the classroom, so I did not do that, but I had him in my office and the secretaries made a big fuss over him and I just thought he kind of enlivened the floor when he was out of my office on a leash. I think that would be the one thing I would try to meet more people and maybe socialize with more people because my socializing was mostly with the English department. RL: Which is not necessarily a bad thing. That's not much of a regret to have. It's good to be able to speak about your years here in such a positive tone. DK: It's good to be—I mean, I think even with my leaving, again, there was this support, this kind of quiet support. It wasn't people making a big fuss over it, but quiet support in a number of ways, so I was thinking that I should retire, not necessarily that I wanted to or needed to, but I should retire by the time I was in my later sixties, so I had gone to inquire at personnel and they said, "Well, wait until the end of the year before you put in a formal declaration." Well, that was before the voluntary separation plan was public and then a couple of months 29 later they made it public. I thought, "You know, those people, without saying anything directly, made sure that I would be eligible for that." RL: Directing you in the way to go. DK: So, again, it was just very quiet, but very helpful because, of course, I only worked for pay for the 17 years I was at Weber—I was teaching actively at Weber the 18 years I was here and then for graduate student fellowships for six or seven years while I was at U.C. Davis, but it wasn't much to build social security on, or even a pension, but you know, I'm doing well. I have no regrets that Weber State has done me a great deal of good and it's a fine place. It's got wonderful people in it and wonderful students and faculty and staff and I'm just glad I was here and got to know everyone. RL: Sounds like you built a good life here and have fond memories. DK: I do indeed. RL: What more can you ask for than that? DK: Exactly. RL: Diane, is there anything else you would like you tell us about or any information you would like to share? DK: I'm just glad that I also had the opportunity to give a last lecture because I had originally thought that it was supposed to be one's last lecture. Then, it turns out, no, you're supposed to be delivering it as if it were a last lecture. But, for me, it was a last lecture and it was my one opportunity to take my two areas of expertise and kind of reflect on them as a whole instead of in pieces. 30 RL: I was there and you managed to come in there and shine. DK: Thank you, Ruby. RL: You sounded as though you were happy with both of the pieces of your life and were able to combine them in a very intriguing manner. I really like that approach. DK: I think it's special to Weber State that I was able to do that. I don't know if there are other universities where that would have been possible. I think at other universities, things are very compartmentalized. It's part of the ambiance of Weber State that it allows for that. RL: And you brought together a rather eclectic audience just because of the nature of the lecture. DK: I did. I was hoping the scientists wouldn't get up and shoot me, but everybody seemed pleased, so I was happy. RL: Well, I want to thank you for spending time with us today. We try to get people's perspectives on different aspects of Weber State and this will really help us do that. DK: Thank you, Ruby. I enjoyed doing this. This was much more fun than I envisioned. RL: People get a little nervous about it, but just sit back, relax, and enjoy it. It's better than going to the dentist. DK: That's true. Almost anything is. 31 RL: Thank you so much, Diane. DK: Thank you, Ruby. 32

Transcript of an oral history interview with Joshua Fontanez, conducted by Sarah Yahm at Killeen, Texas, on 10 April 2015, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Joshua Fontanez graduated from Norwich University in 2012; the bulk of his interview focuses on his experiences as a gay student at Norwich University, especially regarding the formation of the university's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning, and Allies Club. His later work for OutServe-SLDN is also discussed. ; 1 Joshua Fontanez, NU 2012, Oral History Interview January 14, 2015 2015 Kingwood Dr. Killeen, TX 76544 Interviewed by Sarah Yahm SARAH YAHM: Can you tell me where you were born? Where are you from? JOSH FONTANEZ: I was born in Willingboro, New Jersey. I grew up – was raised my entire life in New Jersey. I lived in a small town called Browns Mill, New Jersey in the pine lands, cranberry bogs and blueberry bushes and right outside a huge military base, Fort Dix-McGuire in Lakehurst. SY: Sorry, I need to have you say your full name. If you will, just say who you are. JF: Yes, Joshua Aaron Fontanez. SY: Excellent. So you grew up next to a big military base, so when did you start being interested in the military? JF: Oh, I always wanted to be in the military. I can remember first grade my first grade teacher used to – her husband was in the military, and he used to come in and he'd talk all the time, so I always had that desire to be in the military. What rank or what job I wanted changed but I always had that passion that calling to be in the military in some form or fashion. SY: And you didn't come from a military family? JF: Neither of my parents were in the military. A lot of my aunts and uncles, my grandparents were all in the military. SY: Interesting. I've been asking everybody this question: did you play games as a kid? Did you play imaginary games where you were in the military? JF: We played like soldier and stuff like that. My dad still has pictures of me with tree branches running around outside, or you know not necessarily modern-day military but also like medieval times, sort of. My cousins and my sister and stuff like that or as I got older you got like little toy guns and stuff like that and we used to do war games inside the house clearing rooms and stuff like that, you know, hide and go seek with little toy guns and stuff like that. SY: Interesting. So you always kind of wanted to be in the military, when did you figure out that you were gay? 2 JF: So I look back in history and it's kind of like – Look, the signs were always there, when I look back, I think I first, I want to say, I first was kind of like okay I had a hint of it my freshman year of high school. That was when I started to actually, not just the emotional aspect but going into that part of my life becoming more sexually attracted to men and stuff like that. SY: And, how – were you freaked out about it? It's interesting because in all the interviews I've read with you and about you, you seem super confident, pretty angst free about being gay. So what that the case when you were fourteen? JF: It was not at all. It was even like the mentality – I look back and I want to give my fourteen year old self a big hug, and just tell him that it's going to be okay. It's going to be better. There was a lot of nervousness and even though like my parents are completely supportive of who I am and my lifestyle and stuff like that. I grew up in a Christian home – it did play a huge role in that. So I remember, I want to say it was like the first time I ever kissed a guy. I went outside to mow the lawn, and I was just praying that I would be healed and that I could be normal and stuff like that, almost to the point of tears. But, it was definitely a huge, huge struggle. A lot of loneliness, depression, not really understanding, a lot of denial at the same time, because you know even in high school you get the questions, Why don't you have a girlfriend? Why aren't you hitting on girls? You are going to this ball or this prom or this or that, why aren't you chasing after them or getting dates or anything like that? So— SY: Yeah, so did— were there adults or mentors who supported you? JF: I wasn't even out. I didn't come out until college, so no one really knew, like some people, like I talked to my sister now and she had like a hint later on in high school, but really no one really knew, just kind of like a couple of other gay people like I would meet knew, but usually they were all in the closet too. It was not something we were ever open about, and it was to a huge point in my life until I accepted who I was that the people who were even in high school who were out, both male and female— So you know, I was extremely mad at them and it was like the whole aspect of — I would make fun of them just as much as anyone else would and that's one of the things I look back, and I'm like "Wow, you were horribly wrong for doing that." It was part of my own insecurity of fear of if I can't be who I want to be they shouldn't be who they want to be either. SY: Were you is afraid that they would recognize something in you and out you in some way? JF: In some way, like, even when I talked to some of my friends a lot of them were like, Yeah, we knew. It was very clear and then I would respond, If you knew why didn't you say something and support me tell me and come up and confront me? There was a huge aspect of would they, 3 and it was even a societal thing because even in high school I got involved in student government or JROTC or the different mentoring things they had in high school, I always thought, I can't be that leader and that role model and be gay at the same time. I remember when I came out to my best friend, I told him— I came out to him, I want to say right after I graduated high school so it might have been like our first break back from Norwich. I told him, listen, I don't have this pressure on me to be this role model anymore for the high school, for all these leadership positions, so I want to tell you that I'm gay, and the reason why I never told you is because I never thought I could. Like, I couldn't be gay and be a leader. I couldn't be gay and be a role model at the same time. SY: So most people don't describe going to a military academy as realizing that they can be gay and be a role model, but it seems like that's what happened to you. So, what happened at Norwich that enabled you to come out that first semester? JF: So coming out to my – I only came out to my friends back at home. I didn't even come out. It wasn't until my senior year that I came out to friends at Norwich and that was a whole different fear, that was a huge fear under Don't Ask, Don't Tell, but I started out to my friends back at home just simply because I needed – it got to the point where I needed to tell someone. The pressure was just overwhelming. The additional stress that comes with going to college, being away from family for the first time, financial independency, all the different clubs and activities I was involved in, and to throw into that, ok now your emotional life, and this part of my life I was still, there were still times when I was like, maybe I can convince myself to be straight. Maybe if I just try hard enough that I can just overcome this. It did for a long time, like even, I want to say up until my junior year of college, a lot of depression, mental stuff. You know, because on the weekends, because it was a dry campus — so if we left campus to go drinking and stuff like that, a lot of binge drinking, it was just emotionally destroy me and physically it had a huge aspect on me as well. SY: Were you accessing like the gay community in Vermont? Or were you just pretty closeted? JF: So a little bit, so there was – you have like the gay, for one any community, ironically, I always laugh because it was like you would think a state as liberal as Vermont there would be a huge gay community, and there's a pretty good one that I found out later on definitely as I started getting more active in activism but it's like then you have Northfield. So even like my freshmen year, I didn't have a car in college until the second half of my junior year. Even trying to reach things, you have to go to Burlington, Vermont. Even in Montpelier there is a very, very small, in my opinion, community where you constantly can meet. Then a big aspect of it which we try to put out there is that no one knew. Like no one knew that there was all these different communities out there and organizations you can go to and different activities and conferences. I spend hours and hours and hours researching and sending out hundreds of emails to different 4 colleges and professors up and down the east coast trying to find out information, tons to people in the different colleges in Burlington, trying to get help from them, whether it was UVM or any of those different colleges. It was definitely difficult in that aspect. SY: I wonder if there was a point in your time at Norwich before you came out especially under Don't Ask, Don't Tell when you were like, Hey these two parts of myself are incompatible. Did you doubt being in the military? JF: I never doubted being in the military because like I said, my mentality was always this that I loved the military so much and I love— I'm such a patriot that is how I used to view it and I was so dedicated to serve my country and defend the Constitution and our way of life and I knew that I was willing to be trained and do things that my family couldn't do. I knew they couldn't defend themselves, and I was will to, so if sacrificing my happiness and sacrificing who I was as a person was something that I needed to do to accomplish those goals that was something that I was completely willing to do. To being able to complete my military service, to complete that obligation I feel I had to for my country, my values, my beliefs, I was willing to stay in the closet as long as I needed to be able to accomplish that mission. SY: So when did you decide to come out at Norwich? JF: We actually— I'm trying to remember when I first came out – see the first person I came out to, the very first person I came out to at Norwich was – okay when I say come out, there were a couple of cadets – when you found out who the gay cadets were, you talked or you know gay civilians, but actually openly came out to was, I want to say, was Dr. Newton, and it was, I want to say when it was, it was right after Junior Ring Ceremony of my junior year. In tradition of Junior Ring Ceremony, big party, big condo events, and stuff like that, and so everyone was drinking and at the party I kissed a guy. Just like the rumor mill spills, before I could get to campus the next day, everyone knew. I remember going to the office the following Monday, sitting down with Professor Newton and she saying like, You know Josh a couple of the cadets were talking and a couple of my students were talking and they said that you kissed a guy this weekend. And I was like, You know to be completely honest, Dr. Newton, I think I feel you already know but I do identify myself as a gay man. She said, "I know. I've known for a while." And at this time the repeal, Congress had officially passed it, but it didn't come into effect until the following, the upcoming fall. She said, just be careful there are some – at this time, I was still a very controversial leader on campus, even at this time. SY: Why were you a controversial figure on campus? JF: My junior year I was elected the student government president, and by this time I have accepted that I was gay. I knew I was gay, and I knew I wanted to start a club on campus. By 5 this time, we knew we had to wait. Everyone saw the writing on the wall. Sitting in ROTC classes, the instructors would talk about the repeal and the possibility of repeal and what we thought about it. SY: How would they talk about it? Would they talk about it in positive terms or negative terms? JF: They would pretty much just ask – They would just use the Socratic Method. They would just come in and be like, Hey, Congress is talking about repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell. SY: And what would your classmates or rookmates— what type of things would they say and did that have you frightened? JF: Most of them would say, I really don't care, that's what would shock me the most. A lot of them say, Hey, I really don't care as long as they do their job. But, they would then go and make jokes, gay jokes, and they would still put down people if they thought they were gay and it was still viewed as a negative thing. SY: How much were slurs like faggot thrown around? How much were there gay jokes? Was the culture hostile in that way? JF: It was. Even to the point of my senior year, it was still a societal thing and in a lot of aspects it still is. Perfect example, my second semester, I got moved into a new room my freshmen year and Cadet [Ringcone? 0:18:28], now Lieutenant [Ringcone? 0:18:29] in the Army, he's an Apache pilot, probably my best friend. I was the best man at his wedding. But, his freshman year we got into a big discussion, and he swore that being gay was a psychological disorder and it could be fixed. And, he is now probably one of my biggest supporters after I came out. Even when the club came up, he was at every meeting, when we did Pride Week he was there cooking. When I got threats and different letters slid under my door and stuff like that, he would chase people down the alleyway trying to catch them after they did it, or he would walk with me around campus because certain staff members were afraid I would get jumped and stuff like that. One of my greatest supporters and still one of my closest friends, just seeing that change – Some of my other close friends, they would see how using words like "That's so gay" even something that is so easy and is used by society so much they would catch themselves and look at me and say, "Hey, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that." Or they would stop people and correct them, like an underclassman would come around and be like, Hey, stop being so gay, or they would use different slur words and they would stop them and be like, Are you serious? Well, what wrong with being gay? You'd see how much someone's attitude would completely change when they actually get confronted by someone. They did that. 6 SY: Just wondering, it sounds like when you were around people corrected their language and stuff, but I wonder how much it was a real part of them. What do you think? JF: I would say, if I was a betting man, I would say it probably it would still be a big part of the culture, because it takes someone who is consciously there holding people to standards. One of our biggest examples when we would have discussions, you wouldn't do it with race or with gender, but at the same time, someone can't hide their gender and they can't hide their race but if you make fun of someone so much and make the environment hostile enough you can force someone not to admit that they were gay. That was a big thing, even with the repeal people would be like, I have no problem with you being gay and being in the military, but just don't be gay around me. And we had this one student, he – long, long post – Pride Week was very controversial, and this guy who was a very popular guy in the Corps of Cadets came out as being gay, and put on Facebook that he didn't need a Pride Week to come out, and he pretty much said that, Me being gay makes my friends extremely uncomfortable and because it makes them uncomfortable that I have enough respect for them not to be gay around them. So pretty much it was the mentality – in my opinion it was like good that you came out but at the same time look at what you just openly admitted is. Who you are, who you can't change, the people you love, you're not even willing to show that emotion around people who claim to be your best friends because it makes them feel uncomfortable. That's what a lot of people would do, they would be – the aspect because all the conversations I used to have with newspapers and stuff like that, the university would make it very clear that they've never had a policy that would restrict students from being gay. They would never kick them out for being gay, but you look at our civilian population who is never restricted by Don't Ask, Don't Tell like our Corps of Cadet students were through their ROTC scholarships and stuff like that, but they still fully admitted, I'm scared to walk around campus holding my boyfriend or my girlfriend's hand. I'm afraid to bring them to the Junior Ring Ball. I'm afraid to show them affection and caring in an open environment because I don't know how people would react. I don't know how that would – so, in that aspect its different than being able to – you're never able to – used to say the term is, you know, you can serve freely not get kicked out but you can't serve openly. You can't be who you are. You couldn't, you know, because a lot of people would get a lot of looks or sayings and I mean, they were, they were pushed back into the, not into the closet, but people would know they were gay but they wouldn't ever bring their significant other around. We had our senior year, our regimental XO came out as being gay, and I knew he was gay since my freshman year. When he finally got the courage to come out, he came out in more anger because he didn't think— he though a lot of the attention on the gay community put a spotlight on it but even after he came out as gay, he was still afraid to bring the guy that he was dating to the Junior Ring Ball. So he didn't even show up to the event. It was that aspect of, Yeah, like okay, we know you are gay, the [real? 0:12:42] is done, but you just can't be gay around me. 7 SY: How did you know he was gay? Did he come out to you? Or was it a sort of sub-culture where people who were closeted on campus but out to each other? JF: Yes, so there were, so it was always that difficult thing, mentality of how to find out who was gay. You had a lot of different avenues. Clearly, we didn't have meetings or anything like that like we did when we had the club, but usually there were two different ways. There was an online dating site. You would go on there and you would see different people. SY: Online dating like Grindr or something and Norwich? JF: No, no, no, it was called, what was the name of it, this was old school, Manhunt. SY: Oh, Manhunt. JF: Yep, and I remember – I know what Grindr is, I didn't hear about Grindr, ironically it was my straight friend who told me about Grindr, but not until my senior year. Manhunt was like the big, back then, the big dating site. I remember being on one night, and I saw him on there, and we talked and stuff like that. Ironically, he lived three doors down from me. We lived on the same floor. So we would talk and stuff like that. So that was one way, but that wasn't a huge way, because unless you knew about the website, no one would go on it. The other event was, and yet again, unless you knew about it, you didn't go either, but it was – So Vermont doesn't have a gay club. Vermont has a gay night. So in Burlington, the club Higher Ground has what's called First Friday. So the first Friday of the month, the club is a gay club. People travel hours from all over Vermont to come there because it's really the only outlet, that one day a month. So you would go there and you would actually see different cadets there and stuff like that. SY: Can you talk about that a little more? Do you remember your first time going to Higher Ground, going to your first First Friday? How did you get there? Did you hitch a ride? Were you scared? JF: My very first time was— When was it? It wasn't until my junior year that I actually went to the club. I'd heard about it, but I really didn't know about it, and I went with a civilian who was – it was her and her girlfriend. I went as support. Because even all the equality stuff we did up to my junior year, I always did as an ally. No one else has the courage to stand up and do it that would be my line. So, I will be the one that takes the brunt force and stand up and help the people who have no voice. SY: Oh, I see, so when you were a controversial student council figure because you were doing equality work but you were doing it as a straight ally. 8 JF: Yeah, roger, one of the first things we passed, as student government president was, I passed an executive order that declared that the student government represented everyone equally and it was one of the first – My research, I hadn't been able to find any other documents, I mean, I'm sure there's a couple, but it listed based up on sexual orientation, gender identity, and of course it went through the standard stuff like, sex, age, student lifestyle whether they are civilian or Corps. We ended purposely with sexual orientation and gender identity, and that was like a huge thing. Strategically, we did that on purpose because we literally spent all of our junior year building up this controversy of having people start talking about it, breaking the ice, so that when we created the club, it wasn't such a – even though it was a huge shock, it wasn't as big of a shock. We went to Higher Ground, met a couple of cadets, saw a couple. It was really awkward because you walk in and you kind of like ignore each other. It's kind of like, Oh, I didn't just see this person here. We would do that, but we went a lot more often my senior year. We actually, as a club we would go up, and that would be like a club outing. We would also be networking because we would work a lot with the different universities would meet us up there and all the other kind of stuff. It was interesting, you'd find out, I actually met – so ironically, I know you mentioned how it worked with my military service. At the time, without mentioning names or rank, I remember being on Manhunt one night, and I saw an Army ROTC instructor on it, who was stationed at Norwich and worked there. It was kind of like the same thing. I didn't message him, he didn't message me. It was kind of just like, okay, log off real quick. I remember, at this time I was a work study at the Admissions Office. I used to work at the front desk as a, I want to say receptionist, but I guess, I don't know what the masculine term for that is, but I was there answering the phone and stuff and greeting people when they came in. He came in and he said, "Fontanez, can you help me carry some stuff back?" And, I was like, "No problem, sir," and I carried it back. He sat down and he asked me if I ever heard of this site Manhunt. By this time, I am terrified, my heart is beating, I'm thinking, I'm going to lose my scholarship, and I couldn't pay for Norwich without my Army scholarship. There was no way. And I was like, Sir, I don't think you can ask me that question, and I don't think I can answer that questions. Pretty much citing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and he was like, Okay, that answers my question. He told me, "I just want to let you know that I saw you on the app and clearly I'm gay too." He was like, "Do you plan on having a family one day? Do you want to fall in love and stuff like that?" And I was like, Yeah, I do. He was like, "Okay, you need to not make the military your life then." He was like, because – In my mind when I look back, I think when he said that, he never envisioned the end of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, because he had served under it for so long, but he was actually getting out of the Army, so he could be with his significant other and moving away from Vermont. But that was his tip to me, Listen, if you actually want to be happy in life, you want to have a family, you want to have a significant other that you care about and can care about you and you can live your life openly, do your initial service and get out because you can't do it while you are in. 9 SY: How did you feel after that conversation? JF: I don't think what he told me really sunk in as much as I was scared out of my mind that he knew. Even going through my senior year, thinking about it, the mentality always shocked me how some people just can't envision it any better. Great guy, but he couldn't see it getting any better. He just saw the worst, and I see a bad situation I want to make it better, doesn't mean – I'm an extremely controversial person at nature. I have no problem, I don't care who you are or what your position is, if you are not doing something right or if I feel like I am being wronged then I'm going to say it. I will try to be political about it, I will be respectful but like, you can threaten me, you can do whatever, it really doesn't matter. I mean, I remember sitting in the office of the Commandant of Cadets and yelling at the top – We were pretty much yelling at each other and another commandant had to come in and pull him out, but I knew I was right and he knew I was right. He just wasn't willing to admit to me that he knew I was right. SY: What were you yelling about? JF: It was about Pride Week. He didn't agree that we should have a Pride Week. He didn't think that Don't Ask, Don't Tell was a big issue. He thought that everyone was fine with it, that society had changed. He quoted that he just got back from a deployment with the National Guard. He was like, We didn't have any issues with people who were gay on the deployment. We actually joked about them being gay and stuff like that. Did you just hear what you said? You just openly admitted that you were making fun of one of your soldiers on a deployment because of who they were. Just because you can joke with them, and maybe they laugh back with you, doesn't make it okay. We just got into the huge aspect of the culture of fear. I mean it was. The aspect of – It all came about because what we did to fund Pride Week we would go to each department, so we would go to Math and ask, Hey, can you sponsor an event? Like we had in seven days, we had over fourteen events. I want to say we had fifteen or sixteen events. Unprecedented. Some colleges like UVM and Saint Michael's and all the other colleges, they'd never even had anything like that before or to the level that we were having stuff. We had speakers coming in from all over the place, we had the Governor of Vermont come to an event. So we were just trying to get like, Hey, can you sponsor this event? We had a veteran who came in and he talked about how he was in the Navy under Don't Ask, Don't Tell, CID [criminal investigation division] would show up to the gay clubs and literally hunt them down, and he remembered like being in a club and someone coming in warning him and him having to run out the back door. So we got Veteran's Affairs to sponsor that event. We just had all these different things to sponsor, and we were trying to get the Corps of Cadets to sponsor an event. The commandant had a very religious and moral objection to it, not only the club but the lifestyle, so he wasn't willing to sponsor it. I said, "No problem, but at the beginning of every event, we are 10 going to list by name the organizations which support us, and it is going to be very evident that the Corps of Cadets did not. And, he was so upset about that. SY: He wanted it both ways, huh? JF: So he was like, You can't put us in the spotlight like that, and I was like, Listen, it's no problem, you can have your morals and beliefs but you need to be willing to publically stand by it. I was like, We will, yet again this is my real controversial part, I am going to put out a press release to everyone from CNN to NPR to – and I just listed all these different news agencies and they will know that you didn't stand with us. Then it escalated, because it was the mentality like, You are a child, we are the adults and you need to listen to us, and my aspect was like, I am a twenty-two, twenty-three year old tax paying citizen, don't call me a child. It would go on and on from there. SY: Let's step back for a second, and I wanted to ask you about the day you found out that Don't Ask, Don't Tell had been repealed, how you felt, and you had a meeting that day, didn't you? December 20th? JF: Yeah, so what we did was, well, so Congress passed it, as soon as Congress found out, they lost the majority in the House. They took a vote in December of 20 – so they took a vote on December, if I remember my history right, 2010, because they knew when January come around, they would lose the majority in the House. So this was literally the last time they could do it. So I remember, I remember joy, but at the same time, fear, because it was, like, now I have no excuse. Like, every excuse now has been removed from me actually being who I was. So at this point it came – like, the writing was on the wall. It was, like, listen, we have so much time to actually laying the foundation, if we want to get this club put out. And by this time we start networking, we start calling people. We actually started drafting executive orders to try to lay on the foundation, because, you know, the club just didn't pop up one day. It was pretty much two years in the working of just getting different clauses put into the student government bylaws, which would allow us to do stuff a year down the road that led to the club being successful and stuff like that. So after we knew the club was going to be founded, Don't Ask Don't Tell, the legislation passed 2010, they said they were going to give a year so the military knew how to respond to it. That spring of 2011, the – so this plays an important role, because I was going up for the regimental commander, I put my name in. And I was one of the top three who was almost going to be regimental commander. And I told myself if I got regimental commander, I could never focus on this fight. I couldn't do both at the same time. So after I wasn't chosen for regimental commander, I took that as a sign, like, listen, okay, this needs to be your role and your passion for the next year. So I remember sitting down that very 11 afternoon, because I was student government president with President Schneider, and I said, "Hey sir, I want you to know, I want to ask you, what is your – within six months the appeal's going to be up. What do we plan to do as a university?" And his answer to me was, "Well, we're going to wait to see what guidance the Department of Defense puts out." And I told him, "Sir, I think we're missing a huge opportunity. We've always been the first. We have ROTCs here, we don't have to wait for the Department of Defense." I was, like, "There are students here," you know, without coming out to him, I was, like, "You know, there are students here who are hurting. You know, they're suffering." And he said, "Okay." So then we went in the – we had the re-election for student government, and I didn't win, so at the inauguration of the incoming president, my last act as student government president was to pass an executive order which created the club. So the student bylaws for the student government allows a student government president to recognize a club up to 14 days; they have 14 days before the student body government, like, the Senate, had to pass that club. So there were only 10 days left in the school year. So we announced it that day so that the club would officially exist with full authority of the university throughout the entire summer, so we could strategically plan and set up. We had the full weight of going and saying we're a university club. So we announced it then, which of course you can imagine being shocked, like, sitting in – we used to do the inaugurations on the top floor of the Wise Campus Center, so everyone being, like, you know, holding their breath. But then we used the summer to start working with different news agencies and they did different articles about, you know, the first gay club at a military college. We used that time to do a lot of different strategical stuff when it came to planning conferences, and, you know, how are we going to do the club fair, and stuff like that? What type of videos are we going to do? And we came back, and by that time – we also used that time to, like, lobby our Senators, because, you know, by this time, though they weren't out, there were different elected officials in the student government who were gay, so we knew who they were. And you know, we went up to then, we're, like, listen, this is time for you to actually stand in defense of who you were. So we lobbied them and we utilized them to lobby their other friends. And by the time we came back, we had a unanimous vote, not one objection. And then like you said, we met on the same day the appeal ended, we met in the Kreitzberg Library. I was told Dean Mathis was really, really skeptical; she was more scared and more concerned for us than anything. She's, like, "Listen, Josh, if you can get five people there, it'll be a success." We had over 25 individuals there; top officials from the university, civilians, Corps of Cadets, straight, gay, bisexual. And it was just a good time. And people started talking; I mean, I remember one civilian stood up, and she's, like, "I've been at this university four years and I literally thought I was the only person here like me. To walk into this room and know that for four years, I actually wasn't alone; that I had people who were just like me. I had a family here." And she just broke down in tears. And 12 that meeting that day was probably one of the most memorable things in her life, you know? There was such a movement for her. And it just relieved so much weight off of her. And it was just a stepping stone. That meeting was really the stepping stone because we did it in a pu– and we did. We strategically chose the location. We wanted it to be in a library, you know, demonstrating knowledge. We made sure none of the blinds were closed. We wanted to make sure everyone knew what we were doing. We had a booth at the club fair, so everyone knew when the meeting was. Everyone was welcome. We had a newspaper reporter there, she did a news article on it. So yeah, I mean, it was definitely well thought-out, but it was just a starting point, because that was at the beginning of the year. And like I said, just that year went through the roof. So it was definitely a great starting point. SY: And yeah, I guess I want to talk about Pride Week, and I want to also talk about the response to – what was the response to that first meeting? JF: So the first meeting wasn't bad. It was kind of, like, real neutral. Because our aspect was, we initially started the club of – so a lot of people had different opinions. So a lot of people said, like, I want to be part of a club. But I'm not ready to be out. So they wanted the club to be held in, like, you know, a secret room where only you would be invited if your friend knew you were gay, or something like that. SY: Okay, great. JF: So no one would know. And then we had the aspect which I sided with, which we just asked if we struggled a lot with was, hey, this is our first year of the club, it's very controversial, we have to be public. SY: Right. JF: So it was, like, the aspect of, we still made sure we took precautions to make sure people who weren't out still had an avenue to come and talk with us. You know, we did some things behind the scene. But we moved our club meetings to the Wise Campus Center, that open – it was literally a full wall of glass. And we did it purposely during chow hour. So everyone had to walk by and had to see the club happening. You had to see people getting education on – you know, anti-bullying, anti-harassment, safe sex, the different political movements. How to get involved. You know, we had speakers from different places come in and talk to us and stuff like that. But no one could deny it; no one could say, "I didn't know." No one could say, "Why didn't you tell me?" Or, you know, "If I just knew." SY: Right. 13 JF: So the responses were mixed, because some people were, like, "Well, you're throwing it in my face." You know, I remember we had a staff sergeant in the Marine Corps who was a student there, he was a MECEP [Marine Corps Enlisted Commissioning Education Program]. And he said at a meeting once, he said, you know, "I have no problem that you're gay. You just need – the fact that pretty much that I have to see that you're gay, that you throw it in my face, that you make it public." SY: (inaudible) [00:09:08]. Because it seems like there are a lot of people who said that about Pride Week. They were, like, "Well, there's nothing wrong with being gay, but why do they have – why does it have to be a whole week? Why do they throw it in my face?" So what's your response to that statement? JF: I guess the best statement is, so we had a Pride Week, so that's one week out of the year. But we look at all these other weeks that are based around the heterosexual culture. We have Junior Ring Ceremony where you and your date walk under the sword arc, or you have Regimental Ball where you do pretty much the same thing. You dance, and you do this. We have the Winter Carnival, and all these different Valentine's Day, and just event after event after event. And Pride Week wasn't – the majority of Pride Week wasn't even about just for individuals who identified themselves as being homosexual. A lot of the knowledge behind it was, they were extremely controversial topics no one wanted to talk about. So we have this university full of 18-year-olds, depending on how long you're taking to graduate, 26, 27-year-olds, but who are extremely uncomfortable to talk about safe sex. So we had multiple seminars about safe sex, you know? What it means to actually be responsible and use a condom, and the different apparatuses out there for safe sex, including abstinency, so abstinence. So we covered every base. We had classes out there about bullying, which is not just an issue that happens – it wasn't even focused on a heterosexual versus homosexual kind of thing. It was just bullying in general. One of the events was an arts and craft event, which, ironically, was the most attended event. Because oh, I can get free stuff? I can get free food? OK, I'm going to show up. We had a movie about religion accepting all cultures, not just homosexuality, but different religions and different walks of life in a wide spectrum. We had the prom. We had a dance. So, I mean, it was just a wide, wide spectrum of events. Now, we purposely did say it was going to be a Pride – because there were, on the other end of that spectrum, there were different things that dealt directly with the homosexual community. I mean, we definitely were depending on some of the speakers we brought in, such as our veteran speaker, when he spoke about his fear living under Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and how his life had changed and stuff like that. But it was that aspect of, one, no one had to attend any of the events. 14 None of these events were mandatory at all. It wasn't any Corps of Cadets, you know, we have to do an afternoon training event where we march the entire Corps of Cadets down and they have to sit down and they have to listen about how difficult their life is going to be now that they have to treat everyone equally and with some dignity, no matter who they love. You know, they weren't giving up their Saturday afternoon to march down to the football field to sit and watch a drag show, or something like that. There were options. And I think more importantly, at least to me that spoke was, you know, the university – and I'm sure it will always maintain this line – that it never did anything to prevent an individual from being gay, but they never took steps and they never gave options for individuals who were gay. There were no options. And that's what we gave during Pride Week, was a unified effort to show that there were so many options. But at the same time, no matter if you were gay or straight, there are a lot of things that affect us all, like, bullying, alcoholism, depression, safe sex. Those go across it. So a lot of individuals just took it back and were like, OK, I don't need to go to these events, because I'm not gay. And some people didn't even show up who wanted to show up because they were so afraid. You know, the university had meetings after meetings about what happens if protestors show up? What happens if there's violence? What happens if someone gets jumped? You know, anything like this. But – SY: Did the university make any effort to keep people safe who were coming out? JF: I mean, they did. I got a lot of threats. Both my junior and senior year, I had a camera outside my door, my dorm room door, because I'd get threats. People would slide letters under my door or send me emails or Facebook messages, or cut things, you know, because we used to have our schedules, our door cards, and they'd cut it up, or they would throw trash at my door and stuff like that. Or, like, throw the entire – SY: How did you make sense of that, and how did that make you feel about Norwich? JF: It made me feel like I was doing something right. I mean, if people don't act out – I mean, there's always resistance. You look throughout history, I mean, there's always going to be resistance to change, right? If I was doing something right – if I wasn't doing something right, I'd probably be the most popular kid on campus. If I just went with the flow, you know, I disputed the lines of traditions, and this is how the old Corps was, and this and that, I'd probably be the most popular person in the world. Anytime anyone ever did something like that, it just motivated me. I knew I was doing something right. SY: And how did you feel, you know, how this fit into the idea of the citizen soldier? How did you feel like you fit into their idea? 15 JF: I mean, it's the aspect of, you know, what is citizenship? Unfortunately, I think a lot of the Corps of Cadets focus on the soldier aspect more than they focus on the citizenship aspect. And it makes me funny, because it's, like, okay, yeah, we're soldiers. But then sometimes it's like we're soldiers until it comes to discipline and, say, physical fitness. Because, like, you know, people talk about, like, you know, there's the alcohol policy on campus. So yeah, I'm a soldier, but then when it comes to following the rules, it's, like, well, I'm a college student, you know, don't get too crazy with that soldier stuff. And then it's, like, you know, well, physical fitness, which is one of the pillars for the university. And it's, like, well, at the same time, I'm a college student. Like, this is the time I'm supposed to live and stuff like that. Well, to be a soldier, you need to be physically fit. So we focused a lot on the soldier part, like, wearing the uniform, training the freshmen, you know, the rank structure, the saluting and whatnot, which are great; great disciplines, great lessons for life, no matter if you go military or civilian, it's a great foundation. And a lot of aspects, we do forget about the citizenship aspect, in my opinion, and we don't focus on it a lot. And I think that is the constant struggle between the academic professionals at the college and the Corps of Cadets in the Commandant's office at the university. Because I think one of the things that really made me the person I am is my education, is having professors, like Professor Miana and Professor, you know, Dr. Newton, who taught me so much in life. And definitely Dr. Newton, when it came to just politics in general, and being who you are, and the ability to articulate what you mean in an effective way, but at the same time being strategic. And there's always butting the heads, and I think they really do butt heads a lot, because you have, you know, well, what's more important? Sergeant's time training or actually doing your academic work? What's more important? You know, that parade we do on Friday, or making sure that our students go to an extra study hall session? And there's that constant thing. But at the same time, I mean, even citizenship on the aspect of – you know, I used to tell when I was battalion sergeant major, I used to tell my NCOs, I would, like, listen, got it. You have sergeant's time training. Now, what's going to do your cadet more – prepare them better for life? Are you going to sit there and have them remember all these dates in the Rook Book and in two years, they're not going to remember a single thing, because upper classmen aren't required to remember that? Or is it more important to understand, like, you know, at least 30 of your cadets are going to raise their hand and promise to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States. Have they ever even read the Constitution? Other than the first amendments in our Bill of Rights, and most of them probably couldn't even tell you all of them, you know, could they even tell me what the Constitution had in it? What does Article 1 cover? What does Article 2 cover? You know, which one's more important? There was always the mentality, well, this is 16 how we did it when I was a freshman. This is how my father used to do it when he was here as a cadet. And we really do, we do miss the citizenship – and through that whole struggle of founding the club and Pride Week, and all the fallout and stuff like that, and the strategic planning over years, you know, I used to sit down with Dean Mathis, and I would sit down with her at least three to four times a week, if not daily, depending on the week. And I used to sit down with her, and my line to her would be, it's, like, "Dean," you know, "I sit back and I really do wonder, you know, if Captain Alden Partridge was here today, would he be proud of what he saw?" SY: What do you think he would say? And what do you think he would be and what do you think he wouldn't? JF: I think on the aspects of us as a university, I think we have some great values. I think we have some great foundations. I think we've put out some great leaders. I think that's what he would be proud of. I think he would be proud of the tradition, and the university still being there. You know, the university does have a very high academic standard, and it does. Every time Dr. Kelly would sit down with us and he said, there's no reason why our retention rate, academically, shouldn't be higher, and that's what we need to strive for. And the Corps of Cadets, even from my freshman year to my senior year, the focus on academics was improved greatly. And they do, they put out some great, great leaders throughout the world. But I think it would be – he would be ashamed on – for an individual who fought so hard to have women go to college, you know, you look at the archives, or you hear President Schneider talk about the archives, and how hard he tried to get women to come to college, to see professionals in that college discriminate against individuals for whatever reason. Or for the mentality of – you know, our college was founded on the mentality that he left West Point because he didn't like that, the mentality, the leaders could only come from that one avenue, that we weren't putting out civilian leaders simultaneously. To see such closed-mindedness. And that's what I used to tell them. I'm, like, listen, our college is great, because we are the first. The first Corps of Cadets to have women, the first Corps of Cadets to allow African American. These were extremely controversial things in the time. So why wouldn't' we want to be the first to have an open LGBT organization on college? You know, that is where I feel he would kind of shake his head, and say hey, what's happened? You know? And trying not to get so political, but a huge feedback we got was, do all the AARs [after action reports], because you can imagine Pride Week went up to the board of directors and back down, everyone did an AAR. And a lot of it had to do about the alumni and the funding, and the threats that came from funding from alumni. 17 SY: I'm glad you said that because it looks like nationally, Norwich's Pride Week got a ton of incredibly positive attention in the press. JF: Yes. SY: And within Norwich and some of the alumni it was, pardon my language, a shit storm. So what happened after the club fallout? JF: Well, here's what – I mean, simultaneously, like, even when Pride Week was happening, I used to get Facebook messages from alumni all the time. And they'd be, like, "Hey, you're destroying the university," you know, "You need to put a stop to this right now," and all this other kind of stuff. But the ball was rolling. So Pride Week wasn't just like a random event, right? We didn't just randomly say, OK, this week we're doing it. Like, over in January, we got approval from President Schneider to hold the event, like we had a full outline, we went to General Kelly, we went to President Schneider, we had a full event. They approved it all. Got funding. Now, our shield, on the strategic aspect was, we got two sitting Congressman, a sitting Senator and the Governor of the State to all support us. So President Schneider couldn't back out of it by this time. And then we got CNN, MSNBC, NPR and stuff like that to also do articles on it. So it was happening. And we purposely did it that way, and strategically did it that way, that no matter what type of pressure we got, it was going to happen. But they didn't tell the alumni. And that's something they personally take blame for; we didn't tell the alumni. But I remember sitting down – I'm trying to remember his name, unless it's Dave Whaley? Dave – no. I'm trying to remember who's the Head of Alumni Relations. But I remember – I can't remember his name now. But I remember him saying – I want to say this was right at the end of Pride Week when we were doing all the AARs, and then we knew it was just – I mean, the president had to go and put out a video because people were threatening not to come to Alumni Weekend; people were threatening not to donate, and it was crazy. But he – I remember the Head of the Alumni Relations said, "It's not the fact that you had the event, or that it was a gay event. It's the fact that you did it too soon." And pretty much what he was telling us was, "We're not telling you not to be gay. But the alumni aren't ready for you to be gay and the alumni aren't ready for a club like this. And because the alumni aren't ready, you shouldn't do this event." And he gave me a metaphor about a highway, like yeah, "We all have to travel on the same highway, and you guys just came out of the exit without thinking about the consequences, so quickly. And you cut off the vehicle in front of you and it caused this huge wreck." And my response to him was, "Well, sir, I remember a couple of years ago we had the second in the hundred-something year our university has existed, second female cadet Colonel. And that individual got a lot of hassle as well." And I 18 was like, "The alumni were not ready for that." I was like, "The alumni – she got so much harassment, I remember her very first meeting as a cadet Colonel, she said, 'I only think I got this position because I am a woman.' And the room went quiet. And I stood there in shock, I don't believe she just said this." So I told him, I was like, "I will not allow you sit here and put these people back in the closet because the alumni aren't ready for them. This is their life." Yet again, this is on the top floor, right outside the president's office, top floor, and I said, "I will not allow you to do that. They have their lives." I was like, "You cannot tell a 19-year-old to go back in because someone he's never met before isn't comfortable that he's gay at a university they attended 20, 30 years ago." I was like, "That is completely inappropriate." And yet again, I was like, "We are not living up to our values." You know, and we used to sit there when we did events and stuff like that, we'd list the different values of the university. We'd list down, this event is covering this value, you know? To not just act, but also to think, and things like that. But yeah, I mean it was – SY: It was really pretty brilliant. JF: So yeah, I mean, it took a while. I mean, I always used to tell Dean Mathis I find it funny that Norwich gave me the education to eventually cause them all this problem, all these problems. SY: Yes, that's right. JF: Because a lot of it did come from the academics that I learned from Norwich. I mean, at the least, they can at least know they were very successful in educating their student body. And knowledge is power, which yet again, they should be very proud of. But yeah, but I mean, so another result of it was, yet again, they waited until I graduated, because they knew if I was still there it wouldn't happen. But they literally waited until after I graduated, and President Schneider announced that the following year they wouldn't be holding a Pride event, that he felt – pretty much he said it caused too much hassle, like no club should have so much attention on them because it's not fair to the other clubs. Though, you know, yet again if I was still at the university, it would have been – I gave the students who were still there some tips and came back for Alumni Weekend and had some very nice conversations. But they waited until I was out the door to make that announcement, and they did that purposely. SY: And there hasn't been a Pride Week since? JF: There hasn't, no. The club still meets, they'll actually be meeting today – today's Thurs– no. No, they actually do have a – I'm trying to remember if I just saw the Facebook – they're meeting Thursday. So they still meet on Thursday. 19 SY: I'm going to interview Meche when we actually can line up our schedules. But he told me it seems like there's – he's really upset that the club's losing momentum. JF: Yeah, it is. I mean, so for a club like this, it takes a really, really, really strong – it takes a strong leader, because you have to be willing to be controv– as much as I hate to say it, you have to be willing to be controversial. You have to be willing to stretch the limits. You have to be willing to say, hey, this isn't right. And yet again, some people, they really do get tied up on rank, right? Like, okay, the cadet – the Commandant is a Colonel in the Vermont State Militia, I can never question that authority. I respect the authority, I'm not going to be disrespectful. But at a certain point, there's a lot of different avenues where I can question it if it's not being conducive to my life or to my education. SY: That's where I think the whole civilian soldier thing is interesting, because it seems like one side of Norwich teaches you to follow orders. And another side of Norwich teaches you critical thinking. And those two sometimes collide, right? JF: Oh, they do, yes. Very much so. SY: Yes. And so I guess in your time since Norwich, how do you think this, what you learned in Norwich, which, in some ways, is how to push to sort of improve and change a military system? How has it served you since you've left? JF: It served me pretty well, I mean, as soon as I graduated, I got some good news. We got invited to the White House. So we were able to go to the White House for a social there. I mean, it was – I thought it was kind of, like, I was like, I thought it was kind of a hoax, because I started getting some hate mail sent to my home address and then I got a letter, big card stock, saying, you know, from the White House. I'm like okay, this is kind of random. And yeah, it was an invite, like you know, we're having the first national LGBT Social at the White House, we would like you and a guest to attend. I'm like, no! And then I got an email, you know, from the head, like yeah, we need all this information because Secret Service has to do a background check on you. And I was like, okay, I was like, great! I was like – so I contacted a really good friend of mine, Sue [Follen?], she's a former Captain, she's a West Point grad, she's really involved at West Point. I was like, "Hey Sue, I'm going to the White House. Can I wear my uniform?" And she says, "Yes." She's like, "Because you know, if it's at the White House, it's not a political event, so you can still wear your uniform." We had JAG look into it, that was great. Perfect. So you know, brand new Second Lieutenant, and I got my dress blues on, I invited Rob Morris who's a Navy pilot now, straight ally, one of our best. He was actually our Coordinator of Allies for the club. I said, "Come on, man, you definitely deserve this." He 20 came, great. We met people from – there was a bunch of military people there we met. We got to witness the first same-sex engagement proposal at the White House. SY: That's neat. JF: Yeah. We got tons of pictures, like, we went in the China Room, we went in the First Lady's room, the Lincoln Room, the Green Room, just taking pictures, all that kind of stuff. And President Obama came out and gave a speech. Came up, you know, we were in uniforms, so he came and shook our hands, he thanked us for our service. But, I mean, we just met people, I mean, we met authors for NCIS from California, to lobbyists, the director of the – I don't know his official title, but he's, like, the advisor to the president when it comes to the AIDS epidemic, both in the United States and worldwide. So we got to meet with him and talked with him, and just made great connections. So that was a great experience. But from there there's a national organization called OutServe-SLDN [OutServe-Servicemember Legal Defense Network], so it's an international organization that represents LGBT soldiers and veterans. So we have – there's organizations and there's clubs, chapters. Anywhere there's a military base. So every state has a chapter. We have chapters in Korea, Japan, Germany, Italy, England, anywhere where there's a military presence, there's a chapter. So I met with them and I started getting involved with them. And then just about a year ago, I got invited to serve on the board of directors. So at 24 years old, I sit on the board of directors of an international nonprofit organization. We work with the White House, with Congress, the Pentagon, State legislatures, of course other nonprofits, like HRC and stuff like that. So I get invited to different events all the time, depending on my travel and stuff like that, I get to make some of them. But we get invited to the Pentagon from time to time. But now we're actually working on – because even with the repeal in place, there is no discrimination law protecting LGBT soldiers. So you can serve openly, but you can still legally be discriminated against, and nothing can happen to the person who's discriminating against you. So we're actually, as an organization, we're working with Congress and different DOD individuals to actually get in the EO policy LGBT. So one of the things that just happened was in July, I want to say, if I'm remembering my data properly, Secretary Hagel signed – added LGBT into the Military Human Rights Charter, which is the first step to getting the LGBT, or LGB since they still don't identify transgender as service members – SY: (inaudible) [00:34:04] in there, yeah. JF: Yeah, into the EO policy. SY: That's (inaudible) [00:34:07], right? JF: Yeah. So, I mean, it's helped me a lot, working out like I'm just – I mean, I'm about to go 21 down to Austin in a little bit to – in a little bit – but in a couple of days to start working and volunteering with HRC, now that my training is a little bit more steady. So it's been good. It definitely gave me the education, the foundation, the courage, the drive to do what I need to do to meet my goals and passions. SY: So I just want a couple more questions, and then you must be exhausted (inaudible) [00:34:44]. So first of all, I bet there were some gay alumni who contacted you, right? I would imagine that you've had positive encounters from alumni? JF: Yes. Yes, I mean one of the most positive – so when the news first broke out that we were going to have a Pride event, I remember one of my first messages I received was from a Board of Fellows, and she contacted me, and she was, like, "I want to start off with letting you know I'm extremely proud of you. Extremely proud to call myself a Norwich alum this day." She was, like, "I also want to warn you, though, that you're about to go through some hell." She says, you know, "Through this, I just want to let you know that I want you to stay strong. If you ever need someone to talk to, let me know. And I'll be there to help you, whether it's through a phone call," or, you know. And then we had just this past – I want to say it was just this past Alumni Weekend, this past one that we just passed, or maybe it was the one before that. A transgender Corps of Cadets member contacted me. So when she went through the Corps of Cadets, she was a he, and she just got interjected into the old guard. So she's saying, like, "I'm extremely proud of you guys," you know, "I'm going to this huge" – it's going to be, I mean, 70-something going into the old guard as a female, but went through the Corps of Cadets as a male – SY: This is Georgia? JF: Yes. SY: Yeah, I mean, I did interview her. I did. JF: Yeah. You know, so she contacted us. What was another really positive one? Even more recently, I had positive one. I was at the HRC dinner in DC, so thousands of individuals. And they hold it at the conference center there in DC. And this guy comes up to me, he says, "You're Joshua Fontanez, right?" And you know, by this time, I'm still in my dress uniform, this was – oh, when was this? This was recently. This was, like, this was in September of this year, so years after this all happened. So I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "I'm on the Board of Fellows at Norwich." He's like, "I just want to let you know that even though it happened years ago, I still remember when the articles first came out. I'm extremely proud of you still. Keep up the good work. Keep in contact," like he handed me his business card. So yeah, we got a lot of positive support. And that was definitely one of the things we talked about, you know, when we talk about it strategically, is how do we get more alumni involved when it comes to the positive 22 aspect? And unfortunately, it was, like, yeah, of course we have a lot of pressure when it comes to alumni not liking organizations like this, or liking a movement like this or liking events like this, and they have financial influence to try to slow it down or stop it. So how do we find the alumni who actually have the money to push it along and stuff like that? SY: Well, one of the largest donors we have right now is Jennifer Pritzker. JF: Yeah. SY: So, I mean, you know, there's some hope in that direction, I would think. In terms of the LGBTQ. JF: Yes, because I remember, I think the Pritzker fund, the donations actually went up from – that was, like, one of the things – I think that was one of the things that really did save us, is their donations went up as this club got more notice. And that was one of the things that we were told. So that was definitely a saving grace in that aspect. SY: Yeah. And she gives millions of dollars to the university. JF: Yeah. SY: Another question I have, and this is, like, me putting my academic historian hat on, and like, we both know that, like, Norwich's gay history when, like, you know, your club had its first couple of meeting on September 20th, right? JF: Yeah. SY: And I wonder if there is any way to sort of capture some of these stories of the, like, many, many closeted years of Norwich's history. So if you can think of any alum who are up to talking with me about their experiences when they were here in classes, decades, you know, in the decades before this, that would be great. JF: Yeah, definitely. And I – SY: And have you heard any stories? Have you heard any stories that you can tell? JF: I haven't heard a lot of stories, so my stories have always been, like, second-hand stories, so, like, definitely to get the names of the individuals you want to talk to, the two people I would say talking to is Dean Mathis, because, I mean, she was there when it was still two colleges, you know, when we had the off-campus civilian college. And she tells stories all the time about 23 students coming up to her, begging her for a club like this, and her always telling them, I mean, and this was the one thing she always regrets, is she used to tell them, like, "Listen, I'm scared for you." Like, "It's not that I wouldn't support you, that I don't think the university needs it," she goes, "I don't think I could protect you." You know, "I think you would physically be assaulted," or, you know. And that would be her advice to them, it's, like, not that I don't want to support you, but my advice to you is to stay safe, and I don't think you can safely do this. So she could probably give you some good names, I mean some really good names. And at the same time, President Schneider. Because President Schneider use to tell, I don't know, I forget the alumni, but he used to tell me, "We have an alumni who works in the Pentagon who used to, I want to say he used to be in the Navy, and now he's just a civilian contractor in the Pentagon. So he'll bring interns in and stuff like that, and they'll work for him for a couple of months, and at the end, he'll tell them, like, 'Hey listen, it really doesn't affect your internship, but I want you to know that I'm gay, and that we worked together for this entire time. So now that you go through your life, you know that, one, there are successful gay people out there, and we're just like everyone else.'" And then I think the alumni – I don't know if you've been – I'm sure you have been – in the main building, is it Jackson? Jackman. It's only been a couple of years, I'm already forgetting – my memory – so Jackman Hall, they have the long Corps of Cadets pictures, where they used to put the whole Corps of Cadets and they have the long ones, I guess the photographer, whoever used to be the regimental photographer for that, who actually came up with the idea to do the photograph like that is gay, and is open. I can't remember his name, President Schneider used to mention him from time to time in our meetings, when we had our one-on-one meetings together. So those are two individuals I would say definitely sit down with and talk, because they can give you, like, 10, 15 years ago, you know – I can tell you a couple when – SY: I'd love to get 40 years ago. JF: Yeah. SY: You know? I would love to do that. But I, you know, and this is the problem, of trying to turn over a queer history, and it's hard to do. But, you know, it would be great if I could get somebody from the '50s or the '60s to talk. But I don't think that'll happen, sadly. JF: I mean, with timing, Alumni Weekend, or as you hit up one alumni, maybe they give you a couple other names. I mean – SY: Yeah, yeah. 24 JF: There's definitely that domino effect out there. SY: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right, so I'm just wondering, my last question, any other people I should talk to? Any other students that were active with you at the time who you feel would want to be interviewed? JF: So right now, and she just got back from her study abroad from China, Rickie [Feitner?]. If you try to look up her Norwich email, her real first name is Rebecca, but everyone calls her "Rickie." She was extremely, extremely active. She was a freshman my senior year. Extremely passionate. Dr. Newman is an individual I'd talk to. She currently doesn't work at the university, she works in Delaware. The head of the Civic Center – SY: Oh, yeah, I've already met with her. JF: OK. Perfect. Nicole. SY: Dominico. JF: Yeah, Nicole. Who else? The – Dr. Kelly. He's – SY: Dr. Kelly, oh, yes? JF: Because he's in the engineer department now, if I'm tracking correctly, still. SY: Yeah, no, he is. He's still here. Was he very supportive? JF: Yeah, I mean, he was. Because he was always that father figure, like, he was very – oh. He always had that aspect of, like, he knew – it's not necessarily like he agreed with the lifestyle, but he knew it was the right thing to do. And he used to have this story about, like, you know, I don't know if it was his sister-in-law, but she had a wife. And he said, "I've never seen two people ever show so much love for each other or so much care for each other, than these two." SY: I think it's his cousin. JF: It's his cousin? SY: She's (inaudible) [00:43:51]. JF: OK. So yeah, he used to have a family member, and he used to tell that story. 25 SY: Yes. JF: But him and his wife showed up to the prom that night, and he said, like, you know, "In all my years here in Norwich, it's the first time I ever saw two same-sex individuals actually dance together, with each other. And they didn't care that I was watching." As a Commandant, or head of Student Affairs at the time, you know, one of the top officials, you know, for the university. I mean, he was extremely, extremely supportive. He was always one who never spoke quickly. He used to think before he spoke. You could just look at his face, and you know he was thinking. He always took that time to think before he spoke, which unfortunately, in society today is a lost art. I'm trying to think of other students, I mean, I can email you a list of other students. SY: Yeah, why don't you email me, just when you think about it. JF: Yeah. I mean, I can get you a list, but I want to give you full names. I already have, like, four or five people in my head, like, both allies and individuals who identified as either being gay or lesbian. I'm actually thinking of people who were on both sides of the issues, because I definitely want to have a full 360 of the event and the issues, and stuff like that. I mean, it was. There were some individuals who were gay who didn't agree with the club, or who didn't agree with the movement, and who were very content on being in the closet and this being an issue that was never brought up. So I think they definitely deserve to be heard as well. SY: And I really do think, you know, 20, 30 years from now it will be, some historian is going to go into the archives and be, like, look at this moment on this military campus, right? Look at the controversies, right? So the more people I can talk to who can speak to the issue and all the complexities about it. JF: Yeah, and definitely on the historical aspect, I said, like, I'm sure you have or you will talk to President Schneider, because I remember he got a call from VMI. And the four-star there pretty much called him and said, "Listen, I have – because of your college having this club founded, students want to found one at my college. And I have no clue on how to react to this. How did you deal with this?" I got an email from a girl in Taiwan who wanted to know how we could help them found their club. We mentored both the West Point and the Air Force Academy with getting their clubs started. We sent students down to a private school in Massachusetts to do lectures with them on how to be supportive of LGBT students, and stuff like that. So the scope of just how much instantaneous in one year we affected multiple universities and high schools and stuff like that was astounding. 26 SY: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Do you think you to some degree you shifted the culture of the university too? Maybe not even in terms of gay issues, but in terms of (inaudible) [00:46:44]. JF: I think so. I think, I mean, it made people – it called a lot of people out on an issue. Because, I mean, a lot of people, I would say the cultural aspect undoubtedly, because I remember everyone used to be, like, you know, in public, because you know, it's taboo to be, like, oh, "I hate" – to openly say, like, "I hate a gay student." No one would openly say that and keep their job. And I remember Dr. Kelly got every faculty member – so not the academic staff, but all the other faculty. So all the Commandants, all the Sergeant Majors, all the support staff, and he brought them down to the Milano Ballroom and had a meeting. And afterwards, I went to Dean Mathis, and went, "How was this meeting?" She's like, "Josh," she's like, "You don't believe the beehive you just smacked." She's like, "An individual who I literally work" – because her office was combined with one of the Commandants' office, because they were redoing his office. She's like, "He sits there every day, sees you come in and talk to me about this club and about your movements, and about this stuff." She's like, "He is probably one of your least supporters." She said, "Behind closed doors, he doesn't believe this club should exist, he doesn't believe in your lifestyle, he doesn't believe in what you do." And she said, "Let me tell you this right now." She's like, "General Kelly put them all on notice." She was like, "That meeting officially was their official warning to HR. If they do anything" – because the big mentality really was, their concern was that a Commandant would turn their back. Like, say, like hypothetically, I was getting jumped or something like that, that they would turn their back and not do anything about it. Or, like of an event happened and a Commandant – because if the Commandants had to be on duty during these events, like if they had to show up, that was their biggest fear, is, like, if they would see something happening or know something was going to happen and not do anything about it. Which is kind of a shame to say if, you know, a 40, 50-year-old adult who the majority of them had prior military service. SY: Yeah. JF: But he put them all on notice that day. And I mean, it's the mentality, this was our faculty and staff. It was like, now you – it wasn't even the student body, you know, LGBT members were scared of. It was their own professors, their on Commandants, their own mentors, you know? I think we destroyed a big culture of fear. We definitely established that students can make a change, and students can question and still be successful. But yeah, a lot of stuff when it came to bullying, when it came to acceptance, I mean – and I always find it funny, because some of our individuals who were completely against us in the gay community would have never came out unless there was this controversy. It was, like, some of these individuals who were, like, "Oh, I know you've been gay for a year," or two years or three years. "You never had plans on coming out, not until this" – "I don't even care if you were against us," I was like, "But you came 27 out." So I'll take that as a win, because I know you may not thank me now, but in five years when you find your significant other and you're extremely happy, you know, you're going to thank me for that, 'Hey listen, four years ago I came out,' you may regret why you came out, or the stance you took when you came out. But you're out." So it's like, I'll take – SY: People evolve, right – JF: Yeah. SY: I mean they feel when they first come out, it's better than when— Here's where they (inaudible) [00:50:15], I'm sure they changed their mind. JF: Oh, like I said, I have complete empathy, because I know, I was in their shoes. Like I said, I was in high school making fun of individuals who were out. So, I can – I never held that against them, because I knew the process of what I went through when I came out. And I knew the process, I know the fear, I knew the pain. I knew the loneliness that can be there and the reaction of human nature, I want to be – you know, if it was cool, if it was okay and accepted, you wouldn't be a minority, you know? People don't make fun of the majority of people, you know? So therefore, you want to be in the majority, you want to be the accepted person. You want to be the cool side of the lunchroom, or whatever. So you naturally migrate towards them. And unfortunately, unless you have individuals who constantly remind you or keep you accountable, you do give up some of the aspects of who you are, or what you believe in, to assimilate to that culture. SY: Yeah. Did you get physically attacked at any point? Or just a lot of threats? JF: Oh no, just a lot of – I was a big muscular guy, I mean, I could – SY: Right. JF: I could handle myself. SY: [That's good?]. JF: No, like, and I was never fear – I mean, there were, I mean, like I said, there were definitely some staff members who were extremely afraid that, you know, that I would be beaten up, or if, you know – I was told never to walk around, like, at night, you know, alone. They had the cameras outside my room and all this other kind of stuff. But I never had fear, I mean my mentality in life has always been, like, I'm destined for greater things than being beat up, or 28 pushed down some stairs, or something like that. I'm, like, you know, that was never a fear of mine. SY: I don't know if I have any more questions, any last things to add? We covered a lot. JF: I think we did. I mean, it's definitely – I enjoyed it. SY: You enjoyed the interview, or just other – JF: Oh, I enjoyed Norwich, I enjoyed the interview, I enjoyed the events, I mean – SY: So you did this, yeah, and that's what's going to be great, that you really did enjoy Norwich. Even through all of this, how do you feel – I guess that's it. How do you feel now when you reflect upon your four years at Norwich? JF: Oh, I'm extremely proud of – I mean, I would go back again. People tell me all the time, like, I mean, I have a lot of coworkers from all the different military colleges, whether it's Citadel, VMI, West Point. I think I'm the only one who says, like, yeah, I'd go back and do it in a heartbeat again. Absolutely. Met a lot of people. I don't know, maybe it's just my first – because I'm not sure, I met some people from Norwich who said, like, "No, I'd never go back," I mean, between the knowledge I gained there, the connections I gained, the friendships I gained, you know, the high-speed pace that was between, like, okay, have to balance classes. I mean, I literally would leave my room at 6:00 in the morning for PT and usually not get back until 8:00 at night, just because between classes, meetings, sitting in the board of director's office, with President Schneider, and you know, all the Commandants, and voicing the opinions of the student body, whether it was through student government or the Corps leadership, or working with volunteer organizations, through Nicole's office, or working with Greg and student activities. I mean, I loved it. It offered so much. That's why it was shocking when people say, like, "Oh, I'm bored at Norwich," or, "There's nothing to do." I'm like, "There's absolutely an amazing amount. Norwich gives you the potential to be whoever you want to be and do whatever you want to do. You just have to be willing to actually tap into that potential, tap into the resources that are there, utilize them properly." And I mean, what you can do, where you can go is unlimited. And some places don't give you that opportunity. And, I mean, Norwich gave me the opportunity, and I feel that I utilized it to the best of my ability. SY: Well, that seems like a good place to end. Thank you for talking today. END OF AUDIO FILE

Tom L. Van Cleave, May 29, 2013 ; The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ; This is an oral history interview with Tom Van Cleave conducted on May 29, 2013 by Ruby Licona. During the interview, Tom discusses his memories of attending Weber as a student as well as his career at Weber State University. Tom retired from Weber State University in 2011 as the Director of Planned Operations. ; 52p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 sound disc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Tom L. Van Cleave Interviewed by Ruby Licona 29 May 2013 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Tom L. Van Cleave Interviewed by Ruby Licona 29 May 2013 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Van Cleave, Tom L., an oral history by Ruby Licona, 29 May 2013, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Tom Van Cleave May 29, 2013 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Tom Van Cleave conducted on May 29, 2013 by Ruby Licona. During the interview, Tom discusses his memories of attending Weber as a student as well as his career at Weber State University. Tom retired from Weber State University in 2011 as the Director of Planned Operations. RL: I'm Ruby Licona, faculty member in the Stewart Library at Weber State University. Today, May 29, 2013, we are talking with Tom Van Cleave who retired as Director of Planned Operations at Weber State in 2011. He has been on campus for quite a while and we thought it would be good for him to tell us his perspective of things that have occurred on campus during that time. Tom, why don't you start out telling us a little bit of your background and how you happened to become associated with Weber State? TV: I was born right here in Ogden, Utah 66 years ago. I went to Ogden High School and graduated in 1965. I took my first class here at the university in 1966. I was working at the Marqus ROT Corp as a painter at the time, and I took a drafting class here. Actually, it was a blueprint reading class which sparked my interest. At the time, in order to register they had the old punch cards. Registration was in the shop area of the technical education building where you showed up and went place to place to get your cards so you could register. I took most of my drafting classes in the technical education building. I'd take one class a quarter because I had a job and a family, so I couldn't really stay focused with my education. I would take a few classes and drop out and then take a few more classes later. RL: You were not a four-year student. 1 TV: I was not. I was most definitely a nontraditional type of a student. I went from job to job and I ended up at a place called the Amalgamated Sugar Company. You would know it as White Satin Sugar. I furthered my education there working for a mechanical engineer. His name was Harvey Bingham. I will never forget this man as long as I live. He was the mentor type. I would ask him a question and every engineer had a boatload of books, so he would pull a book and say, "Okay here's the section. I want you to read this, then come back and we will talk about it." In that process, he became more of my mentor than anything else. In 1973, the engineering section I worked in as a draftsman decided they wanted the engineer group at the sugar factories. They wanted me to move to Nyssa, Oregon, but I wanted to continue my education. Nysaa, Oregon is 50 miles away from Boise State or anyplace where I could get my degree. As a consequence, I had to decline that. I ended up working for a family-owned business called Precision Built Homes which later became Precision Built Systems. It didn't take me too long to realize that the growth opportunities were just not there. I saw an ad in the Ogden Standard Examiner that they wanted an architectural draftsman. I applied for it and so did two other people that I worked with at Precision Built Systems. I interviewed with Bob Folsom, who was the Director of Campus Planning at the time. Bob was an architect and a very intelligent guy. RL: Was he Director of Campus Planning for Weber State? TV: Yes, that's right. Anyway, I interviewed with him and then time went by and I thought the university had forgotten all about me. I didn't know what the 2 bureaucracy was. I was used to private industries where it was, "You want the job? Okay, you're hired." They finally called and wanted me to come to work. Needless to say, I was elated because I had a long association with Weber State and I really thought this was going to be ideal for me. Plus, I could continue my education. I used to ride motorcycles at the time. I had a Yamaha YZ 400 and I was into racing and things like that. Just one week before I came to work here, I had a motorcycle crash and separated my shoulder. Of course, it was my right shoulder. RL: Which you used as a draftsman. TV: That's right. Bob Folsom hired a two-armed draftsman and a one-armed one showed up. He kind of looked at me and was a little bit surprised that I showed up with my arm in a sling. I thought, "Oh no, I'm out of here." He dealt with it pretty well. I learned how to draw by grabbing my sling with my left hand and moving the pencil with my right. That was back when we did all board drafting. I realized that this was my opportunity and I had to make the best out of it. Bob was very encouraging in that he wanted people to take advantage of what Weber had to offer. RL: That was in 1978? TV: Yes. That was 1978 that I was hired in. I'd take classes and I finally got into the mechanical engineering program which was basically nonexistent prior to 1979. Over time, I was able to take enough classes to finally graduate. I had graduated with my Associate's in Engineering Graphics in 1974. 3 RL: When did you graduate with your Bachelor's? TV: That wasn't until 1986. RL: Better late than never. TV: Oh yes. I'll tell you, it was a tough uphill climb for me. I had a family to support and a lot of times I'd have to work two jobs to make ends meet. RL: Do you remember any of the faculty that you worked with when you first got here? TV: I most certainly do. I took my first drafting classes in the engineering technology building on the west wing down on the south side. Later on, I took more classes at what we used to call the "TUB" which was the temporary union building. It was on the east side of building four. I remember taking drafting classes there in the wintertime and you could almost hear the wind whistling through. It was an old barracks is what it boiled down to. That's where the union building was housed in the late 1950's while the permanent union was being built. You never knew what you were going to get in that building. One of the more memorable professors I had was Park Guymon. He was a chemistry professor. He was tough, but even though I took those classes over 30 years ago, I still know the periodic chart fairly well. He worked us hard, but he was fair with everyone. He was one of the best professors I have ever had. He was super intelligent and just a great guy. Especially when you'd get him talking about horses, he could talk about horses forever. He was one of the better ones. Another professor, Carl Wood, in the mechanical engineering program was a hands-on type of a guy. He might still be here, or it's just been a few years 4 ago that he left or retired. He could give you not just the theory of things, but the practical application of things. It was the same thing with Robert Parker. Dr. Parker was the type of professor that when you walked into the classroom and sat down, you'd have everything in front of you and a pencil in hand because the second he hit the door he was walking, talking and asking questions. By the time you realized what he asked, he would call you up to the board to explain the problem. You had to be on top of your game to stay with Dr. Parker. He was a great guy. RL: What did he teach? TV: He taught strength of materials, finite element analysis, and other classes within the mechanical engineering program. RL: You mentioned that while you were with Amalgamated Sugar, Mr. Bingham was a mentor for you. Was there a faculty member at Weber that took on that role when you came back as a student? TV: Some did in limited roles. Carl Wood was one and Bob Parker was another. There were others, but the names escape me right now. RL: You've mentioned several and obviously they made an impression, but sometimes somebody stands out more than others. TV: If anyone it would have to be Park Guymon. He was not in my major, but he taught me how to work hard, how to be prepared and how to think and rationalize things out. I have to tell you a story about a final exam I took from Park Guymon. I remember the final exam I was pumped, I was primed, I was ready. I walked in there and he handed me the test and I'd been studying and studying, but I 5 started down and went through a whole page and none of the questions looked familiar to me. I started to sweat. That's when you wish, "I hope the hole opens up and swallows me right now." I looked around and everybody has just got their head down and they're going. I thought, "I'm a dead man." Finally, on the second page, I found one that I knew. That started the process rolling. I took the full two hours to do that test. When I was done, I walked out to the parking lot on the east side of the science lab building and I couldn't find my car. I had no clue where that thing was. As I walked around I thought, "Oh my heck, somebody stole my car." It finally occurred to me that I had parked on the west side. I'll never forget that chemistry final as long as I live. RL: Did you finally go back and answer some of the things on the first page? TV: Oh yes. I got the ball rolling and I think I got a 92 or a 90 on that test. It was one of those feeling I've never had a feeling like that in my life—the "I am sunk" feeling. If anybody was a mentor I think it would be Park. I still see him to this day and I stop and say, "Hi," to him. His wife is absolutely wonderful, I remember her too. He is just a great guy. It's been all these years. RL: He's been mentioned to me by several people, not necessarily in interviews, but around different situations. Actually, one of my surgeons and another physician also had him as undergraduate students here at Weber State. You're right. They are delightful people. TV: I had a lot of professors, but he's the one that just stands out the most. Dr. Parker was from Chicago and he had kind of an accent. You'd ask him a question and he'd say, "Yea, yea, yea, yea." That was one of the more humorous 6 things. Then you'd take some of his exams and you'd think, "Oh my, the humor is over." Another one I had was Norman Smith. He taught thermodynamics and heat transfer. I remember Dr. Smith gave us take home exams. I had never had a take home exam before in my life. I thought, "Alright, we have a take home exam. I am living large. Life is going to be good." Of course, I postponed it and started working on it on a Sunday and we had class on Monday. I must have spent eight to ten hours working on that one exam. It was a total nightmare. I learned really fast about take home exams. I had a couple more and they lived up to the expectations. He was a very intelligent man. We did a lot of formula derivation. Back then I was thinking, "Okay, I really don't need to derive those formulas. Guys a lot smarter than me came up with them so they must have figured it out so I don't have to, right?" No. We went through them step-by-step. It got you thinking. Rather than thinking, "I need this class to get out of here." It got you thinking about the applications. He was a brilliant man. He didn't stay with us too long before he moved on. I think from every professor I had I took something with me. Carl Wood was just one of the nicest guys you ever want to be around. I remember in one class he had the class down to his house for a barbeque after the class was over just to treat us. He was very patient and was able to explain everything. I was able to use a lot of that on the job through the analysis type of thing. RL: So you were working full-time at that time? TV: Yes. RL: Were you able to take advantage of a tuition cut or anything? 7 TV: Back then we were on the quarter system and we'd get five credit hours free and 10 percent off at the bookstore. I remember my first drafting book I bought at the bookstore. I thought, "This is outrageous." It was this big, thick drafting book. I think it was $22.00. I about died. RL: That was a fortune at the time. TV: It was. Considering I was making about $2 an hour back then, so that gives you an idea. RL: What about on the work scene? You mentioned Folsom. Were there other people that functioned as mentors for you in the workplace? TV: I replaced a guy named Wayne Venable. Wayne had a heart attack and died rather suddenly. At the time, we only had about 7,200 students here. When I was hired in, there was me, Bob Folsom, and a guy named Fred Kendall. He (Fred) was the nicest guy I've ever run across in my life. Fred was the type of guy who would never speak an ill word about anybody. He was just that type of a personality. There was also a secretary and a student aid. That was it for the whole campus. They called it Campus Planning and Construction. As things grew and progressed we were able to hire more people. A lot of what I learned was from the guys in the shops. We were in the Architectural Services Department on one corner of the campus and the guys in the shop were up on the hill in what is now the Facilities Management Building. I tried to involve these guys in the shops especially in the practical applications. I could punch all the numbers in the world and I knew what had to happen and knew the design parameters of a particular piece of equipment. But, then you 8 start getting into installs and what actually makes it work and how to control it. That's when I started talking to the guys in the shops. I gravitated toward these people because they were very smart individuals and very good at their trade. I learned a lot of practical things from the people in the shops. There were guys that had been plumbers for 30 years and guys that had been electricians for about the same amount of time. They knew how everything was supposed to work. I learned a lot from those people. I also learned a lot from Division of Facilities Construction and Management inspectors. They were on the construction end and they managed most of our major projects on the campus like the new buildings and major remodels and things like that. RL: The things that we now have to contract out. TV: Yes. I just had a vast variety of influences on that. Bob was very much an architect and more of an artist. I remember I took a class in art and architecture. I remember Bob saying that if engineers designed all the buildings on campus, they would all look like boxes. They have to have an architectural element to them. Historically, engineer types and architecture types have clashed. The engineer types want mechanical rooms with all the space in the world, while architects say that's very valuable space that could go to other things. There's always this clash type of a thing, which leads me to my next step. In 1991, Weber State College became a university. I remember that quite well, they had quite the celebration. I moved from working for Bob and he said he was disappointed to lose me because I'd like to think I did a really good job. I did get a lot of compliments from the faculty. 9 RL: You had been here at least ten years by that time. TV: It's interesting because I only planned on spending four years. I knew when I had it good. It didn't take me too long to figure that out. Anyway, I went to work for Dave Maxson, who was the Director of Physical Plant. Dave was one of the nicest guys that ever walked the face of the earth. He had a hospital background. My job was to bridge the gap between the architectural side and the practical side. I knew both ends of the business. I think I was successful in doing a lot of that. When I was working for Bob Folsom, I got here right after the Dee Events Center was dedicated and the Engineering Technology building was dedicated the year after. The next building was the Wattis business building. We had so much trouble with that building from the operations and maintenance end. It had stacked fan systems so if you have something go wrong with one fan system you have to disassemble one to get to the other. It had very cramped and compact mechanical rooms. It was very impractical. It had great big cooling coils on the fan systems and you had to actually cut a hole in a wall to get the old coils out and the new ones in. Be it my influence or complaining or whatever you want to call it, I was the go-between. As the next building, student services, was to be built it was the first time we were actually involved in the planning process. I went to all the planning meetings and the construction meetings. Sometimes my suggestions weren't taken well and other times they were. It was a give and take kind of a thing, realizing that the architects had their point of view and the maintenance side had our point of view and we were trying to make those two 10 things mesh. Student Services was the first building that I was heavily involved in and it was a valuable learning experience. I learned a lot from a lot of people. I was able to temper my own feelings. That's when I learned how to realize the other person's point of view. I take a lot of pride in that one. RL: It's growing up. TV: Yes, that right. Of course, it served me well as my career progressed with personnel issues. I worked for Dave for about ten years. Back then, we had a Director of Architectural and Engineering Services, Director of Physical Plant, and we also had a Director of Electronic Systems and Repair whose name was Sid Jensen. I had one of these projects going on that we had to have his help on right away. I went down to explain my problem to him and Sid says, "I need all this paperwork filled out in quadruplicate. It has to be signed off by anybody and everybody and you're six weeks out to get the parts." He proceeded for about five minutes and I thought, "My gosh, I will never get this done." He finally talked himself down and says, "Oh okay, will this afternoon be okay?" Sid was the type of guy that had to get a chunk out of you. He had to do it and he loved it the entire time. Once you caught onto him, he had a heart of gold and he'd do anything in the world for you, but you'd have to endure it first. They did some studies across campus and they decided it didn't make a whole lot of sense to have three separate directors running three separate entities and they should all be working together. RL: You needed an umbrella to cover. 11 TV: That's right. They hired consultants to analyze our whole situation and that has evolved into what is called the facilities management department. Mike Perez was the guy that showed up on the scene. He came from SMU. They had a structure at SMU that was kind of what we were looking for, so Mike knew the ropes. He was quite a personality and you always knew when he was in the room. He was just the type that would attract people, very outgoing and a smart guy. He was a super sharp individual. We were used to the old ways of doing things and Mike started out by learning the ropes. He and his wife came from Texas. RL: When did he come here? TV: It must have been in 2000 that he came. RL: Is he still here? TV: No, he went on to the University of Utah. Anyway, I remember they were born and raised in Texas and I remember the day he got here we had an April 1st snowstorm. His wife had one of those big trench coats like what the football players wore with a hood. She was all huddled up and she looked like, "What in the world did Mike drag me into? The frozen tundra of Utah?" Their son, Michael, was out throwing snowballs and he thought it was the greatest thing. I'll never forget the look on his wife's face. Mike went through a whole series of meetings, planning sessions and mentoring and we evolved. RL: What was his title? TV: At the time, he was Director of Facilities Management. 12 We used manage this place by reacting. If there was a problem, we reacted. There wasn't anything that was planned as far as maintenance was concerned or anything preventive. We ran it until it broke and then we repaired it. We had limited resources and limited technology to enable us to start planning this. We had started our facilities management work order system just before Mike got here. The realization was that we needed to start planning better. I remember the old Maximo program that just basically generated work orders. Prior to that time, the work orders were scribbled on a piece of paper and we called whoever on the radio to go fix it. That was the extent of it. We started refining. He was only with us for about three years, but he made a lot of changes. He brought us all under the same umbrella. Don't get me wrong, there was resistance. To Mike's credit, he pulled it off. He's a high energy guy who would send emails at three in the morning or he'd be in Texas and send me emails. The University of Utah recruited him so that gives you an idea of the type of job he was doing for us. He replaced one of the legends down at the University of Utah, Randy Turpin. Randy even had a building named after him at the University of Utah. He was the Director of Physical Plant or Plant Operations. RL: They stole our person to improve their situation. TV: They had a void they needed to fill and they needed the right guy to do it. RL: What was your position under him? TV: I was the assistant director under Mike. When Dave Maxson, Bob Folsom and Syd Jensen all left within a short period, I assumed the role of the director. Dave had brought me along enough that I knew how things worked. I knew how the 13 budget worked and I was able to use that information that Dave gave me to manage that for quite a spell. It must have been six months or better before they hired Mike Perez. After Mike left, there was another long period because they couldn't find the right person for the job. We had interview after interview as the university was looking for the right person. I was managing the department during this time period also. RL: You mentioned that Kevin Hansen managed Air Force bases all over the world. Did we recruit him away from Hill Air Force Base or did he come in from elsewhere? TV: He retired from the Air Force. He'd managed Air Force bases in Anchorage, Alaska and Cape Canaveral, Florida. We're talking multi-million dollar budgets that he managed. He retired from the Air Force and ended up in Logan City Public Works. This was a long process that we went through. We had candidate after candidate showing up, but it was just not the right fit for us. The administration wanted the right person for that job. I remember the first time I met Kevin I thought, "Oh my gosh, a retired colonel, we're all in a boatload of trouble." We had several downloading sessions. He brought me under his wing more or less. We talked department-to-department and person-to-person about how we each saw things. We had several sessions of that. We were going to a conference in St. George and we talked the whole way there. Kevin saw things in an entirely new light than we were used to seeing. He said the first thing he noted was that the Administration Building had an old wooden sign. It was actually a metal sign framed with 4x4's and it was kind of leaning up against the west wall. 14 Those were the kinds of things he saw, but we had been seeing it all along so it was just part of the landscape for us. That's just one small example of what he saw. RL: Is that when we went through that major signage change all over the campus. TV: That's right. He wanted to turn this place into a first class organization. It wasn't without pain, don't get me wrong, because we had people that were pretty much entrenched, that could not see the light and resisted. You're bound to get resistance with any change. I remember back when we used to go down to the state surplus and get our service vehicles. By the time they hit state surplus, these things had been used to death. RL: 300,000 miles on a little truck. TV: Right. That's not outside the realm of possibility. We were trying to piece things together and it was a mish mash of things. We had an old Popsicle truck that the plumbers used. That's where we were at the time. Kevin was able to change that through budget management. You'll notice all the service vehicles now match. They're all in good shape and we rotate them. We don't have to worry that much anymore about them starting in the wintertime. That's just another example of the things he accomplished. RL: That relates back to some of the old Mike Perez thinking where you don't just react, you plan ahead. TV: That's right. It adds a professionalism that was lacking. At the loading dock at the facilities management building, we had a lineup of old beat up chairs that were scavenged from gosh knows where sitting on the dock out there. The guys would 15 go sit out there in the summertime. These things were worn out and beat up. We had a yard full of transformers that were taken out when we upgraded from 4160 volt to 12470 sitting out in the back lot. Our back lot was a junk yard. Kevin really drove the point home that this was not the way were going to run this facility. The chairs disappeared, the transformers disappeared and he was going to change this into a first-class organization. He asked me one day which section within facilities management I wanted to manage. I told him immediately that I am more in tune with the maintenance operations. That's how my job title got changed to Director of Plant Operations. I managed what they call skilled crafts like the electricians, the plumbers, the carpenters, the painters, and HVAC personnel. RL: The ones who would be licensed and certified in the outside world. TV: Right. I also oversaw energy management. I remember my first energy project when Dave Maxson was still here. It was in 1995. We got a grant from the state of Utah for changing light bulbs. We had T-12's and we were changing them to T-8's. There were all these people trying to promote certain things and that's where the analysis I performed came in. RL: What does T-12 and T-8 relate to? TV: These are florescent tubes that have two types of ballasts in them. They had the old magnetic ballasts and the new ones were electronic. That's when I started to get involved in the energy management end. It kind of got to be my passion. I did a lot of analysis of the wattage and the light levels to determine which was going to be the best. They had several different types out there at the time. People 16 were trying to promote T-10's and a primitive form of LED's. I finally had to make the decision while working with other engineers and the first building we changed to the new T-8's was the science lab building. That was the first building we retrofitted under this grant that we got from the Department of Energy for the state of Utah. The Lind lecture hall soon followed. At the time, Allied Health Science building phase one was already in place and they were looking at the Allied Health Sciences Building phase two. I had to convince architectural engineers and administrators that the T-8's were the best thing to put in the new health sciences building rather than the T-12's. I had to show them all the energy efficiency and so on. The numbers just really fell out and I was able to convince them to put the T-8's. The Allied Health Science building phase two was the first new campus building to have the T-8 florescent tubes in it. RL: Then you went around and retrofitted the other buildings. TV: That's right, over time. We still stumble into the T-12's sometimes, but pretty much all of them are now T-8's. RL: The experience you had with that is what led to your part-time position that you took on after retirement. TV: Bingo. RL: That's energy analysis? TV: Yes. I'm the Utility and Energy Analyst now. I do the fun stuff. I tell everybody my story and say that I basically went from four meetings a day down to one or two a 17 week, which suits me just wonderfully. I think I got away from my passion when I got promoted up. RL: We've gotten a picture of how you've progressed through your work career here on campus. You said you grew up here in Ogden, do you have early memories of Weber prior to coming here as a student? I know people talk about Weber and I'm sure at that time were referring to it as Harrison High School, kind of looking down their nose. After people get here they have a whole different perspective on things. I've also spoken to some people who remember running around on the campus and sledding down the hills when we got snow. What are your early memories of the campus? TV: My brother graduated from the old Weber College down on 25th Street. I remember the Moench building. I couldn't have been any more than five or six years old when he graduated. I remember the gym especially because of all the ramps going up to the spectator area. It was so fun for a five of six year old kid to go running down those ramps. RL: Was that the building down by the public library? TV: Yes, that's was old Moench building. It was a very striking building. I'm sure you've seen pictures of it. My best friend, Brent, used to live near me on 28th Street just below Harrison and moved right across the street from the current university site. There used to be a big white two story building at the front of campus at about 3400 South. It had a pond out in the front that had little mosquito fish and goldfish in it. We'd sneak in there at night and try to catch them, but were very unsuccessful at that. 18 RL: It sounds like they were the kind of thing that even if you had caught them you couldn't do anything with them. TV: We couldn't, but we were kids and we didn't think too far ahead. I remember the old married student housing on the west side of the Browning Center where the visual arts building is now. Another friend of mine had a sister that lived in there with her husband back in 1963 or 1964. I've had a long association with Weber State. RL: You've been here as a student and as an employee under quite a few different presidents on campus. I would imagine that when you came President Miller was still here? TV: President Miller was still here, but he was no longer president. He was still very much a presence. I was working for Bob Folsom as a draftsman and this gentleman came through and stopped by to talk to me and wanted to know how it was going. I didn't know this guy. He just seemed like a pretty cool guy. RL: Was he president when you came as a student? TV: Yes he was, but I didn't know him personally. I remember President Miller and his wife also. They were just the sweetest people you ever want to be around. After he came through that day, I went to Bob Folsom and asked, "Who's that guy that just came through?" He said, "Oh, that's President Miller." The president's home at the time was right at the top of 4100 South. It is office space for the athletics department now. His wife lived there. I met her and got to know her better when I was working for Dave Maxson. She was just the most wonderful person you ever want to be around. She was very appreciative of 19 anything you could do for her. She would bring us treats up at the office every once in a while when I worked for Dave. She would just stop by with donuts or cookies as a note of appreciation for what we did. RL: Each administration had its own flavor, doesn't it? When you started working here it would have been President Bishop? TV: I came right after President Bishop left. President Brady was the first president that I worked under. I got to know him and his wife somewhat. They had a home here on Edgehill Drive. The college bought it off the market, but it needed some renovations. I was put in charge of the renovations, so I got to meet with President Brady. One thing about President Brady, he had a closet full of blue suits. Every time I saw him he was wearing a blue suit. His rationale was that it was one less decision he had to make in the course of a day. I worked with his wife, Mitsy, quite a bit. She was a wonderful lady. She was highly appreciative and a very classy lady. RL: You actually were in a position where you interacted with them at their home and not just on campus. TV: That's right. RL: Any particular incidents that you remember with that home? TV: President Brady liked to play basketball and I remember we put a basketball court in his backyard. I made all the drawings and our carpenters did all the form work and poured the concrete. That was one of the more notables. We made some changes to the lighting and landscaping over there that she appreciated. I 20 was able to work with them at their own home which is one of the little perks of my job. RL: I've heard a lot of stories about his walking around the campus knowing a lot of the students, and of his interaction with the faculty. Was he just as approachable for the staff? TV: I was nervous about approaching people like the president who was really up there when I was just a lowly draftsman at the time. I was hesitant to approach him. I remember he had signs all over campus. He would write his thoughts and put them on signs and put them around campus. That was another little thing that he did. He was a very nice man, but very formal. I interacted much better with his wife who was less formal. My interactions with him were strictly on little projects. RL: After he left, we would have had President Nadauld. He was also fairly formal, wasn't he? TV: At times. I've got to tell you a funny story about President Nadauld. This was before the Stromberg Center was built. We used to have faculty-staff basketball leagues at the old Swenson Gym. President Nadauld was very competitive and he loved basketball, but he is not all that big of a man. At the time, I was about my present size. I was in better shape, but I was a pretty good-sized boy. Anyway, we were playing basketball with teams and I went out to set a pick. President Nadauld ran into me and then hit the floor. I went about as white as your sweater. I thought, "Oh my gosh, I just decked the president." I thought my employment was over, but he actually got up and he smiled about it. He said, "Nice pick." There's still a guy on campus that will never let me forget that. His 21 name is Mike Whetton, and every time I see him, to this day, he reminds me of the time I decked President Nadauld. We used to have fishing derbies at the campus in the pond. Physically challenged kids would show up and we'd plant fish in the upper pool and the guys from physical plant would go down and help these kids catch fish. You'd see these kids that are confined to wheelchairs who would just light up with their first fish. It was so rewarding to witness that. It was an annual thing with President Nadauld. After he left, the derbies pretty much died off. I really thought that President Nadauld was a very personable individual. I appreciated what he did, especially with that fishing derby. That was an indicator of what the man was really like. He was very compassionate and just a good man all the way around. RL: He was president when I arrived here. From my perspective, I didn't approach him because he was the president. There were a couple of times when we interacted and he really wasn't unapproachable, it's just what you build into the position. When he left, we got Paul Thompson. He made a lot of changes on campus and had more of an emphasis on recruitment and diversity issues in terms of expanding the faculty and bringing in more people of color. I don't know if that began with President Nadauld, but I know that there were internships that he and Bob Smith made possible for faculty members and there was more emphasis for students. The campus face has changed in terms of the student population with more international students and Asian, Latino, and African American students. What have you seem in terms of the makeup of the staff? 22 Since you have worked with people on the staff in different buildings, did you notice any particular changes as far as diversity when we started having the push on campus? TV: Not so much immediately. I was on the construction end. One of my favorite people on this campus is Forrest Crawford. RL: Absolutely. TV: He is absolutely the greatest guy I have ever met in my life. RL: He started out here as a football player. TV: That's right. I'm going to digress further. There was a guy here, Darnell Haney, who used to play football for the Oakland Raiders, who came from Utah State. I knew Darnell because I was coaching little league football at the time in Washington Terrace and I coached his son. That's how I got to know Darnell. I remember I was doing a project in the union building and I was talking to Lynn Kraaima when I noticed his eyes kind of shift. At the time, there was a promotion going across campus about a new club and restaurant opening up in town called Bigfoot's. Anyway, I looked at Lynn kind of funny and then this great big furry paw hit my shoulder. I turned around and the most enormous creature I've ever seen in my life in a Bigfoot costume had ahold of me. It was Darnell Haney. I think I set the world record for the standing high jump thanks to Darnell. I wasn't directly involved in the diversity effort, but I reaped the benefits by getting to know these people. RL: What were the changes that you noticed that were brought about? 23 TV: That is a hard one for me because I had the benefit of getting to know the people that got hired here, some of the guys I think back on like Henry Yamaguchi who worked up there. RL: I just wondered if you saw a difference in the face of the staff. TV: I'd have to stop and think about that because I didn't really pay much attention to it. To me they were just good guys and that's what matters. One of the better interactions I've had. I love to work out at the gym and I lift a lot of weights up there and I love interacting with the student athletes. These young men and women are about as fine a people you'll ever meet in your life. I love to talk to people and getting to know these student athletes has been one of the more amazing experiences in my life. I have people stop me that I don't recognize and they say, "I work out at the gym, we talk about this and this." I've got to tell you a story about Fine Unga. He used to be a running back under Mike Price. I've seen him around for years. He looks like he could still play. One of his relatives, I think it was his nephew, was BYU's all-time leading rusher, Harvey Unga. I've been a Chicago Bears fan since I was a little kid. I just mentioned it to Fine and asked if it was a relative of his who got drafted by Chicago. We got to talking and I mentioned to him that one of the things on my bucket list is to go back to Bears Stadium to see a Bears game. Later on, said to me, "Well, if Harvey makes the team, we'll go back and see a game." I just spaced it off again and then he brought me a hat that said, "Number 45, Harvey Unga." I said, "What is up with this?" He said, "Harvey made the team." I said, "Wow, that's cool!" He said, "You pick the game and we'll go back." 24 RL: Did you get seats on the sideline? TV: We are going back on August 15, 2013 to see the Bears game at the Chicago Stadium versus the San Diego Chargers. One of the other notables was Frank Otis who played basketball for us. I'd be out and about and he'd stop me and I'd get to know him. RL: Did you get to play basketball with Damien? You couldn't pull a pick on him. TV: Damien's about five leagues ahead of me. He'd probably jump over the top of me. There again, Damien is another fine man. I was in a meeting and Kyle Tresnack stopped me because he recognized me. Bonnie and I are the ones with the towels behind the basket and we wave them at the opposing players when they're trying to make free throws. He picked up on that. The things you pick up on and just these wonderful experiences, you cannot put a price tag on them. It's just part of the overall experience up here. RL: With Thompson, there was an era when we started having more strategic planning on campus, which falls in line with what you were seeing in facilities management. I don't know if the two are related or if it was just individuals that happened to be working on the same kinds of things. After President Thompson, we got Ann Milner, who is very highly thought of and I have not heard of anyone who was not sad to see her step down. TV: I am among those. I've known President Milner for a long time. I knew her when she was working for continuing education. Right after she became president here in about 2004 or 2005, we had a request from her to tour the infrastructure of the campus. She was very interested in the infrastructure of the campus wanted to 25 go see the chilled water plant, and the heat plant, and wanted to go through the tunnels. I didn't know quite how to take this. Kevin Hansen assigned me to take President Milner on a tour. RL: Through all the mole holes on the campus? TV: Some of the places I'd say, "President Milner, you really don't want to go down here." She's the only one that wanted to know how this place worked and what the infrastructure was like. We didn't have any centralized air conditioning on this campus until 1968. They put two lithium bromide steam powered absorption chillers in the basement of the science lab building. As the campus grew, we had to add another central chiller. It was our first centrifugal that was installed in a separate vault way below basement grade on the south end of the science lab building. Once we got the new electric powered centrifugal in place, we abandoned the old absorption chillers which were a maintenance nightmare because they were old and antiquated. RL: It's like the difference between air conditioning and swamp coolers. TV: Pretty much. The absorbers were an energy hog, very inefficient, troublesome, and a constant maintenance issue. The centrifugal at the time was a 1250 ton carrier and it pretty much took care of the campus. We're talking the early 1980's. The campus continued to grow and expand and we were running that chiller for all it was worth. We had no redundancy. We didn't have a backup plan if that chiller went down. I remember on a July 4th weekend in the late 1990's, the central campus chiller went down. At the same time, we had a stand-alone unit at 26 the Browning Center, which was installed during construction in the late 1960's that went down on the same day. This was July 4th weekend, we had two chillers down and we had nowhere to turn. We couldn't get anyone up here because people were out of town. We finally got ahold of someone from Carrier Corporation and he worked on the central chiller throughout most of the weekend. The Browning Center chiller was 24 feet down and it had two lines, one is the chilled water line that goes to the building and the other is the condensing line which goes to the cooling towers. The ground shifted and sheered the condenser lines, so we started digging. We had to bring in great big track hoes and we just started digging and digging. When we got down there we ran across all these cables that were sagging. Those were the feeder cables to the transformers in the basement. We had to get electricians up here to take care of that. In the meantime, we struck hardpan and hit groundwater and the basement of the Browning Center started to flood. You wonder how many things could go wrong with that project. Scott Jensen was the director of the Browning Center and had events scheduled. Needless to say, he was pretty anxious to get this done. An employee named Destry Labrum and I tried to line up electricians and anybody we could find. I lived here for two or three days until we got that done. I hardly slept at all. I remember telling Destry that the sweetest sound I've ever heard in my life was that central campus chiller. There was a reason we used to have earphones right there at the door. That thing was a high pitched screamer. 27 At that time, I thought that that old carrier finally getting back online was the prettiest sound I've heard in my life. It underscored the whole idea that if we lose a chiller, we're dead in the water. That started the process rolling. In the meantime, we were doing a make-do kind of thing. We took out the old absorption chillers and we kept adding new chillers, but I did a lot of studies, which showed that we were still running out of capacity. The campus was growing faster than what we could keep up with and what we could support. I think that was part of the reason why President Milner wanted to see what was going on. I explained to her everything that we were doing. I even took her down to the vault with the old screamer and we both had our hands over our ears. We needed more capacity and redundancy in our plant. RL: She was very successful in her time in getting funding for new buildings and for remodeling on campus. We had Elizabeth Hall… TV: There was some visionary stuff going on with Vice President Simkins. He could see the need, so the cooling towers were in place before we got the central plant. President Milner was successful in convincing people to support the new chilled water plant. We're talking 5 or 6 million dollars. Now, we have full redundancy. We are totally backed up. If we lose a chiller, we have total back up. Same with the heat plant. RL: We'll continue as we get the funding for the new science building. TV: That's right. We have capacity there to handle it. RL: Were you around during the construction of the science buildings or was that already in place? 28 TV: The science lab constructed before I arrived as part of the major building boom on campus, which happened between 1968 and 1972. RL: So you would have been here as a student? TV: I would have been here as a student. As a matter of fact, I took classes from Park Guymon and we had our labs in the science building. RL: You'll come full circle because now they will get a new building. TV: That is a good thing. Honestly, the science labs have been a maintenance nightmare for us. Back then, the way they used to fireproof everything was with that spray-on asbestos. We have to be careful because they can't do a lot in that building without removing the asbestos first. We can't even work on things. It's old and worn out. A lot of the components, like the exhaust fans on the roof, you can't get parts for anymore because they don't make them. We have to buy brand new exhaust fans with a little bit of a different configuration and adapt them to keep the building operational. RL: You described President Milner as very much hands-on from the ground up. I would imagine that having that type of an administrator makes life a little easier for facilities management operations. That area did not report directly to the president, it always reported to a vice president, is that correct? TV: That's correct. RL: You just mentioned Vice President Al Simkins. Was there someone else in his place prior to his arrival that you remember? Were there influences on facilities management? 29 TV: The first vice president I remember really well was Dr. Folger who was a very personable type of guy and a very intelligent individual and he was very approachable. Even being a lowly draftsman, I was able to talk to him on a limited basis. I was very rank conscious, but he was very approachable. He came from the business end of things and had a doctorate in business. I wasn't here too many years when Dr. Folger retired. RL: Did he come in from faculty? TV: He came in from faculty I believe. He could have been an academic dean. After that was Dr. Jerry Story. I didn't interact with Dr. Story very much. Bob Folsom interacted with him quite a bit as far as anything to do with the campus. I didn't really know the man very well. He seemed like he was a nice enough guy and he'd talk to you, but I wasn't able to interact with him on a one-on-one basis. After that it was Dr. Simkins. RL: He was here for quite a while. TV: Until Dr. Tarbox showed up. RL: That would have been about 2005. With Al Simkins, you mentioned earlier that he had been interested in setting the plan in place to prevent catastrophes and to plan ahead for some redundancy and so forth. TV: Dr. Simkins was the visionary. He could see what was coming down the pike and saw the need to combine his departments. He saw what had to happen and was able to implement that. I was able to interact with Dr. Simkins through one of my all-time favorite people named Craige Hall. RL: Who became vice president over there in 1991. 30 TV: Yes, he was the associate vice president, I believe. I knew Craige when he was the director of the library here. We did some remodeling projects. He was one of the most approachable and fun guys I've ever been around, a super golfer who was terrific. We had a lot in common and he was very approachable. I just can't say enough good things about Craige Hall. RL: He was the director of the library for twenty something years and also happened to be put over the computer center. I believe when he went to the vice president's office, they moved the computer center so that it was still under him. He had quite a variety of things. He had physical plant, all of the budget and financial stuff, the athletes and the NCAA relationships and all of the facilities things. You just thought you went to a lot of meetings. TV: I remember when Craige got appointed to what we called mahogany row on the third floor. My previous dealings with certain faculty members that had been promoted to that level had not been very good. I got the feeling that once they were promoted to that level that they became very rank conscious. I didn't know what to expect when I had my first meeting with Craige Hall in his new office. I was kind of sitting at attention and he looked at me kind of funny and said, "Thomas, how the hell are you?" I said, "Fine." I guess I still didn't loosen up enough because he took his shoes off and put his feet on the desk and said, "Well, take your shoes off, put your feet up, let's talk about things." It just put me at ease. We were able to interact in that manner, keeping in mind that he's still at vice president level and I'm not, but he had that way of putting you at ease and he'd listen to you and address your concerns. He was every bit a manager who 31 could bring people together. Define the term "manager," that would be Craige Hall. I got to know his wife, Deanna, very well also. She was a wonderful person too. Those two matched up so well. I remember some of the stories Craige would tell me about the younger days when he was running for student body president of high school and some of the things they did like an airplane drop with all these leaflets. They got in trouble for that for all the litter they were throwing out of airplanes. Some of the stories that he would tell were just absolutely wonderful. I was able to interact very well with Craige Hall. He's a great guy. Vice President Tarbox was without a doubt one of the smartest individuals I've ever been around. He is extremely intelligent. RL: He didn't come in from faculty, he came in from outside. TV: That's right. He came in from the Board of Regents. We always called him Norm from the Board of Regents. You found out early on that if you have a meeting with Norm, you better have all your ducks in a row and be able to answer any question that he could throw at you. He's very detailed and highly intelligent, but he was kind of pressing the need for the new chilled water plant and later on the new boiler addition in our heat plant to replace the two worn out boilers. Both of the boilers were over 50 years old. On the facilities side, he was very much the visionary. No doubt, Craige had some influence there. RL: You had Simkins who laid all the ground work. 32 TV: He did lay all the groundwork. Norm was able to take over and run with it. Our whole energy management program as we see it was championed by Norm. RL: Okay, that's been the era that we've been in for the last few years with this ongoing green project and so forth. TV: Actually, the revolving loan fund. He championed this idea. We hired a young man as an energy manager, Jake Cain, who ended up working for me. He undertook this project to prove to administration that conserving energy and revolving and taking the energy savings and reinvesting it in the institution was actually a good idea. I remember he presented that to Norm and it's something I'd been pressing for years to get a portion of our energy savings to reinvest in new energy products. We basically proved to Norm that we were getting a much higher rate of return on our investment through energy savings than we were in any other investment that the university had at the time. Norm championed that whole idea and we now have other universities coming to us and asking, "How did you do that?" That's the type of visionary he was. He still is as a matter of fact. I think the world of Norm. He and Craige are wonderful. Every once in a while I run across Simkins in the grocery store and of course my wife, Bonnie, knows everybody. RL: She was in Human Resources for a while, wasn't she? TV: Yes, that's right. At one time she was working with the football team under Dave Arslanian. She was in charge of all the travel arrangements and had to feed the athletes and things like that. These are 18 or 19-year- old kids that have never been away from home before and she was kind of the team mom. I met her in 33 1990 when she was working for Sam Zeveloff. She went from Sam to football, and then went to work for Nandi in Student Affairs. She worked for Jan Winneford for a while and then went to Human Resources. As a consequence, she knows everybody on this campus. My standing joke when it comes to Bonnie is, "People know me not as Tom, but as Bonnie's husband." My real name is Bonnie's Husband Van Cleave. I kid her a lot about that. I could carry on about Bonnie, but that's not part of this here. We just have so much fun together. RL: Well, she's part of the campus history too. TV: She is. Absolutely. She was my gift. She keeps me grounded and we get along so wonderfully. RL: In your working with buildings and construction around campus and so forth, you probably also had involvement with some of the deans and the different colleges. Anyone in particular that had an impact? TV: Warren Hill. I enjoyed working with Warren. RL: Warren Hill who is kind of grounded came here from Pueblo, Colorado and he got here in the early nineties. TV: Right. I got to know Warren. I still see him on occasion. He's one of the greatest guys and super smart, very analytical. We got along pretty well. He was very influential and he has the type of personality that you go out of your way to try to help him out. People just gravitate to him. He's very outgoing and just a great person to be around. My interaction with other deans has not been that extensive. RL: We had some long-term people like Dean Sadler over in social sciences. 34 TV: I took a class with Dean Sadler right after he got here. I think he got here in 1968. I've known Dr. Sadler since forever ago and he's just another one of those great individuals. I interacted with him quite a bit. He was super charismatic and a great individual. He'd appreciate anything you could do for him and he'd listen to you. RL: They had some major problems in the social science building. TV: We had several problems in that building, which was built in the sixties We had insect infestations. I know that. We tried re-caulking and that building was another constant battle for us. The infrastructure is very dated. We also had heating and air conditioning problems. RL: I was thinking about the leaky roof. TV: Yes, we did have roof leaks. That building is an old building and it's in need of a total renovation. It's been a nightmare for us. RL: Was that one of the first major buildings on this campus? TV: Yes, it was built in that time period between 1968 and 1970. I do a lot of analysis of these buildings and there was a big building boom on this campus that took place between 1968 and 1973. The whole north end of the campus was totally torn up at that time. The education building was built soon thereafter. I remember seeing a campus master plan at one time and there was supposed to be a skyway bridge between the social science building and the education building. You can still see where it was supposed to be, especially on the social science building. On the second floor, midway on the east side of the building, there are some glass panels that don't quite match up with the rest of them. At one time 35 they were double doors. We finally realized that the sky bridge was not going to be built, so there was a remodeling project to get rid of those double glass doors. We've had our share of leaky roofs. Right after Mike Perez got here, we had one of those canyon winds that was super bad. We lost a lot of roofs that day. Perez and I went to the top of the stadium to see what the damage was. We were out there hanging on for dear life watching the roof of the Allied Health Science Building disappear. RL: That building was fairly new. TV: Yes, at that time it was fairly new. I also remember all of our campus roofs had to be red. They had the tar and gravel build up type of roof made with what they call Red Scoria, which is lava rock. Canyon winds tend to pick those things up and make unguided missiles out of them. We replaced a lot of windshields after that windstorm. RL: Broken windshields of the employees? TV: Students and employees had broken windshields from the flying Red Scoria, especially in the A-1 parking lot. The social science building had that Red Scoria roof as did administration. As we started replacing roofs, we started the single ply roofs. That's what started the process rolling. We still had to have red because those were the campus standards at the time. I have a confession. The first white roof on this campus is on the science lab building. I was responsible for that project and I picked white. RL: Were you thinking of heating? 36 TV: Absolutely. I was thinking about the air conditioning and the reflection of that roof in the summertime. I kind of violated the campus standard and I don't know if Bob Folsom realized that or not. Anyway, that is my confession. RL: They can't get you for it now. TV: They can't come after me. Now we are all going with cool roof as our standard. The Stromberg Center roof is being replaced now. I think the Browning Center still has the Red Scoria roof on it as does student services. RL: When the student union building was remodeled and added to, was the roof changed then? TV: That's right. That was built with the cool roof concept. There are a lot of lighting innovations and a lot of variable frequency drives in there. In a nutshell, rather than a big fan system with a 100 horsepower motor that ramps up right away, when you hit the switch, the variable frequency drives allow you to ramp up slowly to avoid sudden starts and a big spike in your energy consumption. That's hard on the motor, the bearings, the belts and you name it. There are two different ways that we're billed for energy. First, is our consumption in kilowatt hours and second, is our demand in kilowatts. When you get a big spike on an electric motor and you've got them all coming on within a certain timeframe, your bill goes up. The variable frequency drives are now our standard. We started incorporating those in the late 1990's. Another great energy saving feature of VFD's is that they provide us with the ability to run our fan systems at a reduced percentage of total load, depending upon the demands of the building. 37 RL: I would imagine those white roofs have made quite a bit of difference in reflection. TV: Absolutely. We have done so many things and those cool roofs have definitely paid off. RL: You've been here long enough that you were here to deal with that rounded cover that we had over the library. We used to watch when the wind came up and it would be moving and buckling. TV: Are you talking about the skylight? RL: Yes. TV: I remember having to replace that. There was a wind storm and we had the guys from the carpenter shop throwing ropes and cables on trying to tie it down and doing anything we could do to keep that thing from getting airborne. Of course, it was tearing up the roof all the way around it. RL: We made sure we didn't have to walk from wing to wing in there because we didn't know if the roof would disappear and you'd get sucked out too. TV: It was all hands on deck trying to save that skylight. It's one of those things where it's put in place and you don't know what the consequences are going to be until you get a severe event like some of those that we had. There have been some innovations that have failed us. The Dee Events Center was built with an epoxy type of a roof. It was a much different configuration than what you see on the roof now. RL: Epoxy like super glue? 38 TV: Yes. They'd just build it up and coat it in fiberglass and epoxy. The downside is that it was not exactly proven technology at the time, and after a while the combination of all the elements the thing started to peel and we had leaks in the Dee Events Center. The roof looked terrible. It looked like a giant hamburger bun. Through the process of evolution, we ended up with the roof that we have now. It was one of those things that didn't work out very well for us. Sometimes learning experiences come hard and that was one of them. RL: We've progressed through the different buildings. We had the student services building and Elizabeth Hall which is a little bit different. You said that we got away from the campus standard when we got away from the red roof. What about a standard as far as bricks or building colors? TV: Actually, that is still in effect. The brick color is called golden buff. That's our campus standard brick and you see it everywhere. RL: Except the business building. How did that happen to turn out the way it did? TV: That was a sore spot with Bob Folsom. We had a dean at the time that wanted something unique. RL: What year would that have been? TV: That would have been about 1980 or 1982. It was one of the first major buildings built after I arrived on campus. I remember Bob Folsom was very upset about the glass, but Sterling Sessions forced that issue through. He was a very forceful individual and he was determined that he was going to have his way and he got it. It was a major sore spot with Bob Folsom that he was able to do that. There 39 are still some elements on that building that are the standard brick, but it isn't pronounced. RL: At that time, the glass building would have been the trend, wouldn't it? TV: Correct, but Bob was the architect and everything had to match. The student service building is also somewhat innovative with the exposed concrete and things like that. The architect's name was Astel Erickson. I was involved in that building. We had some nightmares in the student services building too. From an energy standpoint, it was highly inefficient. We have all these great big high intensity discharge lighting. They are 175 watt HID and 250 HID and they were pointed upward through a skylight so that people could enjoy the ambience at night. I remember fighting him about that. They're up there 24 feet and I wondered how in the world we were going to change those light bulbs. I was basically told that was a maintenance problem. So, we just let them burn out. That was our energy efficiency. It no longer shines up to the skylight in the middle of the night. I never saw the architect drive by too often to see that. He was the same architect that did the Allied Health Science Building phase one. We had a lot of leaks in that building from the sloped glass. You'd get a pinhole and it'd start to work, but the wind would make it move and it would leak. We've done that about three times to try and keep the leaks out and it still leaks. It's just inherent in that type of structure. RL: The new dorms have normal windows and no big glass feature. It looks as though the new Stromberg addition is going to have a lot of glass. Is that going to 40 have a lot of glass in an open area? What will that do in terms of glass facing toward the west as far as requiring more air conditioning because of the heat with the late afternoon sun? TV: Remember when I was saying that if engineers built everything they'd all look like Wal-Marts? That building was kind of an ugly building and it needed some help. It was not a very welcoming building. I see both sides of the equation. West facing glass is an energy manager's nightmare, but you have to be sensitive to the overall picture of things. That building is going to be spectacular. They've done everything they can as far as minimizing the impact on the HVAC. We have the low emissivity glass that is going to be throughout. The sun shining through is still going to have an impact, but we're trying to minimize that impact. RL: Has it grown as the project has progressed? TV: No, this was from square one. RL: Was it? The early drawings that we had seen, it was a much smaller approach and it was really just going to be an entryway. Now it looks like major facilities are being added. TV: It's funny you should mention that because I kind of picked up on that myself. From the conceptual drawings that I saw, this has grown. I'm not in the project management end anymore, so I'm not sure how this evolved. It is going to be a big addition. RL: Now you're doing the energy analysis, not necessarily having anything to do with construction? 41 TV: Yes. I do a lot of energy analysis and scheduling of our buildings. We waste a lot of energy at night because the lights are on and nobody is home. The building automatic and control is a complex system where all the buildings are tied into our central automation center. Of course, we have controllers, wires, panels, and variable frequency drives in all of our fan systems so there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Part of my job is to look at all the spikes in consumption. I get read outs as often as I want to download them. I can see all the spikes in consumption and I figure out what is causing the spike or the increase in the loads in a specific building. We are soon going to be able to meter every building on this campus for electricity, chilled water, steam, water, domestic water, and natural gas, but to do that we have to have all of these meters installed. They all have to have certain set points and parameters to set them. Another part of my job is to dig out all of the information for a particular building and what it requires so they can adjust the control set points to the demands of the building. RL: While you're working on this project, have you been able to find things that have required big changes that you were able to influence? TV: We've made a lot of big changes. Have you been to Dee Events Center lately? RL: Not lately. TV: The primary responsibility for this belongs to Jake, but I'm kind of a sounding board too. That kid is smart. Don't tell him I said that, okay? In the Dee Events Center arena, we had forty-something 1500 watt HID lamps. Including the ballasts that were probably pulling at least 2,000 watts a piece. Multiply that by forty-something and all of a sudden you've got a big electricity load and also a 42 big heat load because of the heat coming off the bulbs. The amount of light you get off an incandescent light bulb is about 10 or 15 percent of the actual energy input and the rest is all heat. That gives you an idea of what goes on at the top of that dome where all the heat rises anyway. We're using all LED's now. I give the credit to Jake for this one. RL: That's quite a bit cooler, isn't it? TV: Absolutely, and it's reduced the load on our chilled water plant. Plus, they're so quiet. The humming from the bulbs is gone. The first time I was in there I thought, "My gosh, it's quiet in here and all the lights are on." It's one of those side benefits from an operations perspective. We had so much trouble with those ballasts on those HID lamps. The heat was killing them and we were replacing some pretty high priced ballasts on a frequent basis as well as the light bulbs. Those LED's are supposed to last for about 20 years or some phenomenal number. It cuts back on the maintenance burden. This is a win-win. We actually had engineers show up to see how we did it. We had the University of Utah show up and ask how we did it. We have people calling us from all over the nation asking how we did it and they want to come see it. Needless to say, that makes Kevin Hansen just delighted. One of his goals was that he wanted people to come to Weber State and see what we're doing, rather than us going to them to see what they're doing. RL: You save travel money. TV: Absolutely. Plus, it puts us on the map. It's one of those really neat things that we're doing. Have you seen all the solar panels on the roof of the Swenson 43 Building? That supplies all the hot water for the swimming pool. It's almost a freebie. It cuts back on spending for natural gas. RL: Well, it cuts back on the whole global warming thing as well. TV: Absolutely, anything we can do. We've also seen a huge savings from our central chilled water plant. We send water out of the chilled water plant at 44 degrees. It goes down the campus through the pipes and goes to all the buildings and it comes back to us at about 56 degrees. When it hits the building, you don't want 44 degree air coming out of the registers, so we temper it by running a boiler. It hits the reheat coils which are supplied by hot water. So, basically, we're cooling off all this air and then heating it up at the room level. There's something wrong with this picture. So, when we had to shut down our central steam system for the new boiler installation, we thought, "Let's use this opportunity to accomplish several things, like some much needed repairs in our tunnel system and raise the set point on our chilled water plant to where we are now pushing down 54 to 55 degree water, and let's see what happens." Last year, we hit one million dollars in savings over our base year by doing just that. Rocky Mountain Power has kind of a love-hate relationship with us. They've built new plants to supply us, but we're saving a lot of energy and a lot of money for the campus. Those are the fun things that we get to do. I remember Jake telling me that, after we raised the set-point on our chillers, Rocky Mountain Power sent their technicians to our sub-station on two separate occasions to verify that the meter was working properly. The energy savings were that substantial. 44 We're working on projects now where I'm still identifying each individual fan system and scheduling when it runs and how often we should change the filters from both an energy perspective and an operational cost savings perspective. It takes more energy to push air through a dirty filter than it does a clean one. We still have to maintain a certain quality of air coming through our campus. I think we overachieve in that aspect. We're using a Merv-13 filter, to replace the old Merv-8. The rating has to do with the amount of particles that are trapped. The higher the number, the more particles you trap. With these Merv- 13's we're able to maintain the air quality and we only have single stage filters instead of two-stage filters to do the same thing. We're saving money on the operations end and by changing them on a regular basis we save energy. You make it a win-win situation for everybody. The customer is happy and we're happy. We're saving money from not only energy, but from our operations maintenance budget. RL: I was going to ask you if we are making enough power that it does not have to be purchased by Rocky Mountain. TV: We're not to that point yet. We have several proposals in the works. Right now between the Davis campus and the union building, we might be at 8 percent of our total usage. We have plans in the works for Davis in particular. There's a lot of wide open space out there. It's in the planning stages and we're running the numbers to see if we can fund it. We want to generate at least 40 percent of our energy consumption for the Davis. This is in the future. That's what keeps me hanging around and showing up to see what happens next. 45 RL: Could you have windmills? TV: We're thinking about that. The permitting is a nightmare. I think a guy at the mouth of Weber Canyon found that out the hard way that it's a nightmare. You have to have a certain velocity of wind. The mouth of the canyon is really high velocity wind. RL: It can't be sporadic. It has to be steady. TV: You don't want this thing to get airborne on you. It has to be somewhat constant wind flow rather than in the morning the wind blows like heck at the mouth of the canyon and it dies off in the afternoon. I don't know if Davis has the velocity. There are a whole bunch of studies that we have to do. RL: Solar panels are good anyway. TV: Solar panels are great. The cost is coming down and the efficiency is going up and that's why I bought them for my house. I'm looking at a four to five year payback on my investment with all of the tax incentives and rebates applied. They become more and more viable all the time. It's also a good recruiting tool. Students show up and they see the solar panels everywhere. The new generation is thinking green and they pick up on these things. It's a recruitment tool, an energy efficiency tool, and it cuts down on the wear and tear on our equipment. RL: Earlier you talked about people who mentored you over the years. Have you had opportunities to pay it forward? TV: I try and take every opportunity. We have a bunch of young guys up there. RL: A lot of enthusiasm, but you have to curb it a little bit, don't you? 46 TV: I'm able to mentor these young guys and show them the how and the why. Jake is to the point now that he can fly on his own. He knows about the politics and how to get things done. I'm still kind of a sounding board and we discuss things. In my many years there, we had a lot of people who were content to complain about their position in life, but didn't want to do anything about it. I remember one young man that used to work for me. He came to me and told me that he wants my job. I said, "Okay, well here's what you have to do." I started laying it out for him and said, "You need your degree and you already have one of those, but the next person that sits in my chair will have a master's degree." His response was, "I can't do that." I said, "If you still want my job, this is the way you're going to have to get it." He decided not to go back to school and all I heard were his reasons why not rather than, "I can do that." The person who took over in my position has a master's degree. It has become more prevalent in what is now a profession thanks to Mike Perez and Kevin Hansen. It is now a profession, not just a bunch of maintenance guys in bib overalls. RL: It's not an internship. TV: That's right. We have some bright young guys coming up. There's a young plumber up there named Dustin. He's a real character in his own right. He wants to know how things work. He's planning his future, he's taking classes, and he's getting his degree. I have an electrician who is the same way. They can see what they have to do to succeed. RL: It's not just hands-on, it's got to be an underpinning understanding. 47 TV: Right. The hands-on is the foundation. You know how things work, but now you have to figure out why it works. Those are the type of guys you try and mentor. There's another young lady who works for us named Jenn Bodine. She's about the smartest person I've run across too. She has her master's degree, but now she's curious about mechanical type stuff. She's going back to school to get her mechanical engineering degree. I say, "Hey Jenn, I'm going down on campus, do you want to come? Let's go see how this works." That's what I get to do. That's another fun part of my job. I get to do those things now, whereas I didn't have time before. RL: Okay, so we've touched on your time as a student and how you've progressed professionally. We've talked about your relationship with administrators and other individuals on campus. What haven't we covered that's important from your time here at Weber? TV: One of the more outstanding personalities from our facility is John Burkes. John was born and raised in Tupelo, Mississippi, and came to Weber State University about four years after I did. I met John one day at the old racquetball courts in the Swenson Gym. He was looking for a game and so was I. Over the course of the next 20 plus years, we became quite good friends. We played golf together, played a lot of racquetball and went on fishing trips together, the most notable of which was to the Kenai River in Alaska. I learned how to play racquetball by taking classes from Lyn Corbridge. Even though "Corb" is a few years older than I am, I could never beat him one-on-one. I also played a lot of racquetball with Ron Deeter and Scott Loughton. Mike Vause is another real character that I 48 came to know quite well. The English Department seemed to have a lot of them for some reason. RL: Connections that one wouldn't necessarily associate with as someone in your position and yet it's more of a social thing, but I'm sure it comes in handy as you're trying to do your job. TV: It's those intangibles that you cannot put your finger on. It's not all about salary and benefits. It's the other perks like the interpersonal relationships, the gym time, and the ability to interact with the deans and professors. RL: Let's face it, in higher education regardless of your position, you're not here for the money. TV: You're not going to die rich from this place, but it's good all the way around. You have to look at the total picture. That's what kept me here for all these years. Many years ago, the student body president here at the time, Mike Aarve, wanted a "W" on the mountain like the big "Y" at BYU and the "U" at the University of Utah. I remember it went through a whole bunch of stages and I asked, "You want that thing where?" He wanted it above the campus. There's a road there that sits right up on the side of the bald face hill. I thought, "How in the world are we going to do that?" You can't pump the concrete up there. At the time, all they had was a bunch of rocks or a white wash that was the "W." Anything to do with concrete or anything like that was totally impractical. So, they hatched this idea that they wanted a living "W" on the mountain made out of trees. This was in 1982, and I remember that specifically because Dean Hurst 49 and I were on top of the administration building with a transit and we had guys all over the side of this mountain laying out this "W." RL: Was Dean over in development at the time? TV: I think he was. I had a broken collarbone at the time from the same motorcycle that I got my separated shoulder from. I had the radio and Dean had the transit and we were making these guys move all these 2x6's. They were going all over this mountain laying out this great big "Flaming W" and it was huge. The students all got together and raised the funds. We put a drip irrigation system in with a pump and I think the pump house is still there. I can't remember the exact number, but we hauled up thousands of trees. RL: What kind of trees? TV: They were Dwarf Sumac. We had a daisy chain of students and football players and digging them in with peat moss and we got all those dog gone trees up there. When we finished, we walked down and started admiring our work. Later on, it became apparent that something was going on up there because the trees were disappearing. What happened was we planted all those trees and the deer went nuts. They had a built-in smorgasbord. The official parting line was, "It's all the alkaline in the soil that killed the trees." A young man in our office was doing layout work for the new "Flaming W" a couple of years ago and he told me that the stumps are still there. That was one of our more notable, funny failures. RL: Oops. Was that paid for with student funds? TV: I don't know exactly how they paid for it all, but I think lot of it was donor funds. 50 RL: Well, it was a good idea. TV: Nobody researched that very well. RL: Now we have the flaming "W" that's lit just a couple of times a year. Is that done on extension cords or did you actually have to wire the mountain side? TV: Actually, they have a portable generator they take up there. Remember I was talking about, Lynn Kraaima? That was his responsibility. He'd haul a generator up there every year for homecoming and light the "W." It's a different configuration now than what it was back then. It's all done by generator now. I don't know who's taken that over since he died. He was one of the other great guys I met up here. I've met a lot of great people up here. RL: There's got to be a reason why we all come back and we all stay here. TV: That's right. There's got to be a reason to get us to keep getting out of bed in the morning. RL: Is there anything else that you want to talk about? TV: I could talk forever about this place, but those are the more notables. RL: I certainly appreciate you taking the time to come and talk with us. TV: I'm honored. I'm really honored with this. RL: You've given us a totally different perspective of the campus. Weber is made up of a lot of people at different levels with different responsibilities and you've shared some things about what you've worked with over the years. It all started out with a Weber education. 51 TV: That's right. It all started out with trying to catch those old fish in front of the campus. We do have an aerial photo of campus that was taken in the early 1960's that shows that house and the pond. RL: What was that house used for? TV: I'm not too sure what the house was used for at the time. We had a lot of residences that were along Harrison Blvd. There used to be a road that came right down past the bell tower. I remember parking my car there so I could go to my classes in the TUB. It connected with the road by the administration building and there was a row of houses in there. The university acquired a lot of houses over the years. RL: Speaking of white buildings and houses. Were you here when the president's residence burned down? TV: I was not. I came right after that. That's when Joseph Bishop was here. RL: So your memories are of different white buildings? TV: Yes, this was on Harrison Boulevard and the aerial photo shows it. It's a validation of what I think I remember from my junior high school days. RL: That's wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to come talk with us. We appreciate it. TV: Thank you for the opportunity. This has been great for me. It's been a lot of fun. 52