Transcript of an oral history interview with Priscilla Dole Hatch, conducted by Sarah Yahm on 11 June 2015, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. The bulk of her interview focuses on Priscilla Dole Hatch's family and their long-standing relationship with Norwich University; also discussed are her experiences as an elementary school teacher and her memories of Northfield, Vermont. ; 1 Priscilla Dole Hatch, Oral History Interview June 11, 2015 Interviewed by Sarah Yahm SARAH YAHM: Hmm. Well, we'll keep trying. This may not work. We might need to reschedule but we're going to give it a shot. I've been having some trouble with my equipment. Um, okay, so you've been here for eighty-something years? PRISCILLA DOLE HATCH: Eighty years actually. SY: Eighty years. Was this the house you were born in? PH: No. No. When my family bought this house when I was four years old. SY: Wow. But you were born in Northfield. PH: Born in Northfield. SY: And where was your, what house were you born in? Where was your original house? PH: The house up on, um, the corner of Stagecoach and Route Twelve. SY: Wow. PH: Right across from the library. SY: Okay. So, you've seen a lot of big changes in your lifetime. PH: Oh, yes. SY: Yeah. So, I guess I'm wondering, so your family has a long-standing history with the University. Right? Could you talk about that relationship a little bit? PH: Okay. Which one? My grandfather? SY: Both. PH: Both of them. Okay. My grandfather Dole, Charles Dole, was acting president for two years. It was at a time when Norwich was having financial difficulties. So, he used his own money to pay the instructors. Of course, there were fewer instructors then than there are now but, um, he did that and then he had, four boys went to Norwich, his four sons. And then he had two brothers I believe that went to Norwich, at least one, maybe two. And then, my other grandfather, Ira Holden, he went to Norwich, I think, two years, because he liked to play football. That was the 2 reason. But then he had to go back and work on the farm. So, he only stayed in for two years. SY: So, I'm wondering, okay, so you were born in Northfield. You grew up here but I'm wondering what your first memory is. PH: My first memory. I don't know if it's from pictures or really a memory but I remember living on Cross Street. And it was a duplex house. We had a family living beside us. Excuse me. We had a family living beside us and there were two boys in the house. And they were, we all played together and had a good time. And let me tell you what I did. Uh oh. One day, I decided to take a walk and I was three, I think. So, I, my mother discovered that I was gone. And so, she started looking for me and they were digging a cesspool line all the way down Vine Street at that time. Of course, they're pretty deep. So, she went the whole length of the cesspool trying to find me. She thought I was fallen in there. Anyway, in the meantime, I had walked down Vine Street but didn't fall in the sewer, walked down Vine Street and then I went down over the bank, walked the tracks until I got into town, into the depot. And then, I went across the, I went across to, um, East Street. Now, I went to visit my mother's hairdresser. That was my point of travel. So, she, of course, was just about crazy and she went to, she finally got the telephone call from her friend, saying, "I have a little girl down here. She walked in just a little while ago." P.S. then, when I got home, I was put on a rope and I was able to, it was on a run and I could, I could move around that way. But I had to stay on that. The little boy next door, the reason I mention him, the little boy next door came running into the house one day, that day, and he said to my mother, "Don't worry, Mrs. Dole. Don't worry, Mrs. Dole. She's all right. I let her go." (Laughs.) SY: Uh oh. PH He thought was, that's pretty much, that's the first big memory I have. SY: How old were you when that happened? PH: About three. SY: About three, oh. So, that was a young memory. PH: I was young. Yes. SY: So, what was Northfield like as a kid? What were your favorite places? What did you do? Where'd you go? PH: Well, we had the, we had the concerts down on the common. We used to go to that in the summer. My father played in the cornet band and as he did at Norwich too. And, oh dear, what else did we do? We didn't have a lot. I mean, we just pretty 3 much played together as kids. My father worked in the post office. And so, he was busy all the time. We didn't have long vacations or anything like that. We pretty much lived at home. And then, I used to go up to my grandmother's, up on Twelve A and they had a farm. And that was when I really had fun, up there too. That was great, great sport. SY: What would you do? PH: Well, if you were really good, you were allowed to ride the hay, what do you call it? SY: Wagon? PH: Wagon! Thank you. The hay wagon, back from the field, when my grandfather was, you couldn't ride it when there was any hay on it. He was too nervous about that. But you could ride once. You could ride down. And so, we used to do that and in the summer, once in a while, I could take a friend and go up there. Then, in the winter, we used to go up to the sugar house because he made maple syrup. You went up over the tracks there and up on the hill behind the, I don't know how to describe that, um, he had a bridge that went across Dog River there and that he had built himself. And then, because he had to take horses upwards to draw the sap. Anyway, he had the sugar house up there and I was allowed to go up there. We would take an egg, one egg with us and it had to be a raw egg. We took that up. He'd put it in the sap. And then, come lunchtime, we had a hard-boiled egg that was cooked in the sap. SY: Oh! Did it have a maple-y taste? PH: Just a tinge. And if it didn't, we thought it did. (Laughs.) SY: Of course, it doesn't matter if it did for real. Yeah. PH: Right. SY: Absolutely. So, I'm wondering what your impressions were of Norwich were as a kid. Did you have much interactions with the cadets? Did you ever get on campus? Do you have any memories? PH: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Of course, they were always around. They had more freedom then. They were off campus more. Once we moved here, I don't know how it always happened but they used to come here and, you know, they'd get sick of campus food and they'd come over and have dinner or something like that. My father was acquainted with quite a few of them. And so, you know, I'm just talking three or four, something like that. But they, this kind of got to be their second home. 4 SY: And how did your father know them? Just through the post office or because he was an alum? PH: No. I think through the Masons. He was a Mason and they were learning to be Masons. So, they'd come over here and study, study the, whatever it is. Then, of course, they'd stay for dinner. I can remember my mother making homemade English muffins. They were so good. They would sit down and have those and coffee after their lessons. And they would come. It was interesting. They just seemed to be glad to have a home atmosphere and feel like they could come over whenever they want. Sit on the porch or what have you. So, I knew quite a few of them that way. Of course, we used to go the football games and the basketball games. Then, when I got older, I knew a few of them. Let's see. What did we do when I was older? I dated some of them. SY: Yes. So, you did. You dated indecipherable. So, what did that mean? Going to the balls? PH: I did. Some. Mm hmm. Went to the ball and to the fraternities. They had the fraternities there. We would have parties. One of the boys that I met that I really thought a lot of, after graduation, he came back to visit. On the way back, he was going to grad school in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And on the way back, he was on a flight that went down. So, he was killed unfortunately. Great, great, great cadet. Really nice, nice young man. Anyway, uh. SY: That's very sad. PH: Pardon me? SY: That's very sad. PH: It was terrible. SY: And how old were you when that happened? PH: I was, oh, by then, I was, I had dated him so I was, how old was I? I was nineteen, twenty. SY: And when were you allowed to start dating cadets? PH: It was interesting because then, if you dated a cadet, the town boys wouldn't date you. SY: Why was that? PH: They were jealous, I think. There was a definite demarcation there. You went with one of the other and you didn't go with both. You always had to make a decision. 5 SY: What, why'd you make the decision that you made? Do you remember your teenage thought process about it? PH: Actually, until after I got out of school, I did not date any cadets. I did date the town boys. But then, after that, I don't know. I don't know how it happened. A lot of the boys went away. That was '48 and it was getting close to the Korean War. A lot of them went in the service. Then, I met some through them coming here. I met two of them when they came here. And one of them I dated and we went to the ball, the junior, what was it called, junior. SY: The ring ceremony? PH: Pardon me? SY: The ring, uh, I always forget what it's called. The junior weekend. PH: There was junior weekend but there was a special name for I can't remember what it was. But anyway, it had the king and the queen and the whole nine yards. SY: Yeah. Yeah. PH: Yeah. SY: Would town boys be sort of mean about? PH: No. They just wouldn't date you. It was kind of a, a hidden thing, you know. Nobody talked about it. Nobody said, "I won't date you if you date." That wasn't even part of it but it just happened. That's the way it was. SY: That's very interesting. Let's rewind a little bit and let's talk about, because you're a teenager during World War II. Let's talk about what it was like during World War II in town. Do you have any memories of that? PH: I do. I do. SY: Could you talk about those? PH: I do because I had an uncle and two cousins that were in the War. They were Marines. I was, let's see, at that time, I was trying to think the other day how old I was when the Germans marched into Poland. That was '39, so I would have been eight. I can remember lying in bed and this was a direct route for the planes to go over from Portland to, I think, Massachusetts. I used to worry. I'd hear those planes and I think, "Oh. Are they going to?" You didn't know who they were. Whether they were our or theirs. I used to think about that, lying in bed and I used to think about my cousins, worrying about them, where they were and what they 6 were in to and so forth. Plus, other boys that were in town, you know. You worried about them too. It was an interesting time. I can remember when I heard that the Germans had gone into Poland in 1939. I was walking to school and I met up with somebody who had heard it on the radio and they mentioned it. It was a shock. It was a real shock. Because, of course, we didn't have TV and all of that to get instant information. So, it was hard to take. SY: Yeah. Do you remember deprivation during the War? Do you remember rationing? Do you remember blackout curtains? What was the day to day life like? PH: We had all the curtains on all the windows were all blacked out. SY: So, in this house, all of these windows were blacked out curtains. PH: All the windows were blacked out and, uh, then, they had the civil patrol. What was it called? I think it was called civil patrol. They would go out and canvas the town to see if they could see any light. If they did, they knocked on your door and told you something was leaking somewhere. SY: And was it your job to pull down the curtains? Whose job was it to pull down the curtains? PH: Whoever was near them at the time. Not anybody's job really. SY: Were those blackouts scary? PH: No. No. You just had them all the time. You pulled them down all the time. No. We got used to it. My mother and father were spotters, up on the hill up here. They would go up. Now, my father and friend went from six to twelve because they were working. My mother and the friend's wife went from twelve to six in the morning. So, they were up there all night. SY: Looking for planes? PH: Yes. When a plane went over, they had to notify. If it was going this way, they had to notify if Massachusetts. If it was going that way, they had to notify Portland. SY: And did they have phones with them? How did they? PH: Mm hmm. They had phone service up there. SY: Wow. PH: Mm hmm. SY: And they did that every night? 7 PH: No. Once a week. SY: Once a week. PH: They were scheduled. Different people were scheduled once a week. SY: And it was rotated. PH: It was rotated. It was constantly covered. Somebody was up there. SY: Anybody ever see anything? PH: Just the planes going over, you know. Yeah. No. Nothing happened. Thank goodness SY: No. Nothing did. Do you remember when all of the Norwich cadets left campus and enlisted? Do you remember that? Could you describe that? PH: I do. And then, the ASTP came in. SY: Yes. Could you describe that and tell that story? PH: Well, it's all of the sudden they just were, they left and there was no fanfare, not much fanfare anyway. There was more fanfare when ASTP left. They marched to the train and they went that way, as I remember. SY: Did you see them marching? PH: I think so. I know I saw the ASTP when they went down. SY: What does ASTP stand for? PH: I knew you were going to ask me that. SY: Ha! Ha! PH: Army training service? They were soldiers. SY: Yeah. PH: They were soldiers that, non-com soldiers, you called them, I think. They were up here to, I think they had different stretches like six weeks, six months, I mean. I don't know. I'm not sure what their schedules were. But they were up here and that was time we still had horses at Norwich. They had to, they had to take care of them. In fact, we had two friends, two of the AST people, their wives came and 8 stayed here. One, she could only get away like weekends. So, she'd come here. And then, the other one, she was, oh God bless her, she was only eighteen years old. She followed her husband up here. What the people did around here, they took them in. And they could live with, we had one that lived with us, the one I mentioned for room and board. And they just worked, you know, did the dishes. SY: And they weren't associated with Norwich? They were associated with the Guard or something else? PH: No. They were with ASTP that was up there. SY: But that was up on campus? PH: That was on campus. The boys were on campus. SY: Oh. I see. So, all the Norwich cadets left. And then, the campus was used probably to do some training for the military. PH: Exactly. SY: Okay. Now I understand. Okay. And you remember when they left. And you're a little kid, at this point, watching this happen, watching the country mobilize for war. What were you thinking watching all this? PH: Right. I had to, I don't know. It was just something else that was happening, I think mainly. I don't think, I mean, we knew about it and it was talked about and we were concerned. But we didn't really know what was happening, you know. We couldn't visualize. SY: Was there part of it, because when you're a little kid, any event is sort of exciting, even if it's scary. It's a little bit like a snow day like, "This is a new thing that's happening!" Do remember being excited by all the fanfare? PH: It wasn't that much fanfare, really. It really wasn't. Everything just sort of happened, you know. The fanfare was when they left and I can remember going down to the train with the girl that lived here. And, of course, she was weeping because he was going off. He was going to war then and she was going to have to go back home. She was very distraught. I can remember walking with her down to watch them march down, follow them and to get on the train. It was tough. It really was tough. SY: Was she waving? PH: Yeah. SY: Yeah. And crying? 9 PH: Crying. SY: That sounds hard. PH: They all were. All the girls that were here. Many, many people took the girls in so they could be near them. It just, they were friends forever. SY: Yeah. You stayed in touch with them? PH: Mm hmm. SY: Yeah. PH: Yeah. SY: Wow. Do you know what happened? PH: Went to visit them in Florida many, many years afterwards. SY: Oh. Look at that. So, what about rationing during the War? Were you able, what foods weren't you able to get? How did that, how did daily life change? Did the town feel empty without men? PH: Well, we didn't, we didn't have much trouble as far as meat was concerned because my grandfather had a farm and he butchered the cows or had them butchered. So, we were all right with that but butter and sugar were the two things that were difficult. And, of course, you had your stamps and your little coins that you use. It was an interesting time. You'd go to the store and, oh, and we'd take our fat, fat that you had that you dried out like if you had bacon, if you were lucky enough to have bacon. If you had bacon, then you'd dry that out and you'd take the fat down and they'd give you maybe two cents. SY: For the lard. PH: It was like a donation almost for the lard. SY: And what would they use it for? PH: They turned it back in for, they remade something with it in the war effort. SY: Interesting. Was cloth hard to get? I know that cloth was sometimes rationed. PH: I, probably, probably it was. I know my mother, my mother made everything. She made all the clothes and everything. I don't know if cloth was hard to get. I really don't. 10 SY: Okay. So, you remember your little ration book and stamps and going around and getting things. And was cooking different? Did you cook differently than you had before the war? PH: If you had a pound of bacon, you stretched, I mean a pound of hamburger. You stretched it. You put an egg in it because eggs we could get. You put an egg in it and you'd put some breadcrumbs in it. You really stretched it to make it go. SY: Do you feel like you kept some of those habits throughout the rest of your life? PH: Some of them. SY: Because you also were a Depression baby. You were born during the Depression. PH: Right. SY: Yeah. So, did you feel that that influenced you as an adult, those early years? PH: Oh, it has. SY: How so? PH: My children tell me is has. (Laughs.) SY: Oh, yeah? They're like, "Mom!" So, what types of things? PH: Oh, dear. Well, I'm frugal. That was one thing that I learned. Make it work. What other things? I don't know. Maybe the way I cook. I think that might have some influence on that. And making food go. When you're first married, you don't have much money no matter where you are. You tend to fall back on those old ideas. SY: Yeah. So, were there a lot of men missing in the town? Did it feel empty? PH: Yes. Quite a few. Quite a few of the boys went. Yeah. SY: And boys you grew up with too. PH: We lost one. Tom. Tom Mayall. We lost him. He was missing in action, finally declared dead. They had a funeral for him here. His body wasn't brought back. They had a funeral here. And then, about two years later, he came to life. He was not dead. He was prisoner. I think he was a prisoner. And he surfaced. SY: Do you remember how that news was spread? Tell me that story. That's a great story. 11 PH: Everybody was excited. Everybody, whether they knew Tom or not, they were excited. SY: And had you known him? PH: I did know him. SY: Yeah. So, do you remember where you were when you heard that he was alive? PH: I don't. I don't remember. SY: Do you remember when he first came back to town? Did he come by train? PH: I don't remember how he came to town. I remember just having him here and his mother being so excited and, oh, she was so excited. She had other boys that were in the service too. SY: What a reprieve! Can you imagine? Every mother who loses a son is like, "Maybe it's a mistake." What an incredible thing for it to have actually been a mistake. PH: Yeah. SY: Wow. You said your uncle and cousins were in the War and they were okay? PH: Yes. SY: Any aftereffects? Things like PTSD? Were they different afterwards? PH: No. SY: No. Did they talk about it or did they not talk about it? PH: They didn't a lot. No. My husband didn't either until shortly before he died. I mean, it wasn't that he wouldn't talk about it. He just didn't talk about it. If you asked him something, he would answer you, but he was not, he just didn't make a big deal out of it. That's the only way I can describe it. SY: But then, before he died, he felt the need to talk about it. PH: He did talk about it more. Yes. He was an avid Marine. He was very proud to be a Marine. The other two cousins, actually I had several, my favorite cousin, he was in and his brother and his father was in. And they met over in Okinawa. We have a picture of them where they met, the three of them in Okinawa. Uncle Ray, I think he was a general at that time. He graduated. He's on the flag up there at Norwich. Are they still there, the flags in the chapel? 12 SY: I think so. PH: And his two sons. He met his two sons over there. That was kind of nice. SY: So, he had been a Norwich graduate as well. PH: Mm hmm. SY: So how did you meet your husband? PH: In college. SY: And where did you go to school? PH: At Castleton. SY: You went to Castleton. You met him at Castleton. After the War? PH: Yes. Oh, yes. SY: What did you study? PH: On campus. SY: No. What did you study? PH: What did I study? Oh, teaching. I was a teacher too and he was a teacher. SY: What subject? Or did you teach elementary? PH: I taught elementary and he taught junior high. Then, another interesting thing that happened to me, I laugh about it now. They had a course. I don't know if you've heard about it. They had a course here in Norwich in aviation, in the summer. You've heard about it? Okay. I can't think of his name, the one that taught. Oh, he was wonderful. All of them were. Anyway, I took that course. One day, it hit me. I said, "I'm the first girl to go to Norwich, to take a course and go to Norwich in our family." It was like, okay, so there was my uncle, my grandfather, and my father and brothers. And then, I had the chance to go. SY: You might have been one of the first girls ever to take a class at Norwich! PH: That's right. SY: So, what year was this and tell me what it was like? 13 PH: I think it was 1950. Oh, we had a wonderful time. It was all teachers. I used the material a lot afterwards. I wish I could think of the man's name. SY: And what were you learning? Were you learning to actually fly? PH: Aviation. Mm hmm. Well, we had an hour, two hours in the simulator, the simulator here. We did a lot with, we learned how they studied air currents and all of that and the principals of flying. Enough so that we could take it back and give the kids an understanding of it. They loved it. I did a unit on it afterwards, the first year afterwards. Oh, it was so much fun because they got so excited to be able to do something so different. We had to make planes. They had to fly. I can't remember how long they had to fly but they did. We had to pass that. That was very important we passed that. SY: So, you had to make planes, like miniature planes, and they had to fly successfully so that you could demonstrate understanding aerodynamics. PH: Right. Right. SY: And you got to be in a flight simulator. PH: You got to be in the flight simulator. We took a trip to Sikorsky in Connecticut where, you know, they were building, they were building, I think, helicopters. Maybe they're doing that now. I'm not sure. Anyway, yeah. We had to fly. It was just a wonderful course. Nobody could ask for a better course. They were working so hard to make it successful. They really just put their all into it. SY: And it was other teachers. So, there were other women in that course. PH: Oh yes. SY: Lots of other women in that course. I wonder if you guys were technically the first group of women to take a course at Norwich. PH: I think we were. SY: Huh. How did that feel? PH: I was excited because I liked the idea of going there. SY: And your whole family had gone there. So, it makes sense that you were like, "What about me!?" Yeah. PH: It was really fun. It was a different experience. I'm trying to think how many were in the class. It must have been, I don't know. There were twenty-five of us, maybe. 14 SY: I wonder how long they ran that course for. PH: Only a couple, three years. They dropped it. I never knew why. I always felt bad that they did. SY: Yeah. PH: Because it was a wonderful teaching tool. SY: And it's exciting that they were also attempting to connect to elementary school teachers, right, and create an aviation curriculum. So, it sounds like you worked for most of your adult life. PH: I taught until I went down to New York. And then, I stopped teaching when I went down there. I substituted. That was all. And then, I decided I wanted to be home when my children came home. So, I stopped working. I didn't stop working. I stopped teaching. (Laughs.) SY: Yep. Let's not make that mistake. PH: No. SY: You were working hard. PH: But anyway, yes. That was it. We were there twenty-five years. Then, we came back here, retired back to this house. Been here since '82. SY: I have some more questions. I'm wondering, when you were a little girl, what you wanted to be when you grew up? What were your dreams of what you were going to do with your life? PH: You're going to laugh. I wanted to be a teacher. SY: I'm not going to laugh! And why did you want to be a teacher? PH: Probably because my mother was. I suspect that was my motivation. SY: Where did your mother get her teaching degree? PH: She got it at Montpelier Seminary. There's a seminary down there. SY: So, that was Vermont College, wasn't it? PH: And then it was Vermont College. Yes. But she did not want to teach in village schools. She only taught in the country schools. She loved it. She absolutely loved it. 15 SY: Why not the village schools? Why the country schools? PH: The children are entirely different, entirely different. They're so appreciative, everything you do. You can't do enough for them. They don't have a lot, you know. They just are super kids. SY: So, she was never your teacher. You were going to the village school and she was teaching in the country. Or did she stop teaching when you were born? PH: The way it happened was the superintendent came to her and he wanted her, because right after she got married, she was teaching down in Braintree. After they were married, she came, they came back here. About five years later, I was born. And then, she wanted to stay home with me. I guess I was four at the time because I was going to be five when school started. The superintendent wanted her to teach and she said, "No. I'm not going back in to teaching until Priscilla goes to school." He said, "Well, maybe I can arrange that." He said, "I can't put her in the village school because the cut-off date is six." And I would have been five. He said, "But maybe I could put her up here in the center across from the library, up on the hill." He said, "Maybe I could put her in there and it won't cause a ruckus. Then you could teach." (Laughs.) Who'd do that? SY: So, is that what happened? PH: That's exactly what happened. I went to school up there for a year. And then, I came back down and I went to second grade in the village school. SY: So, you come from a, your mother loved teaching, it sounds like and you love teaching. I guess, where was your first teaching job and what were your joys and failures? I've taught, so I know there are joys and failures. PH: There are. My first teaching job was right here in Northfield. SY: Where you'd gone to school. PH: Yep. And I had what I'd call the best class that ever went through the Northfield school system. 1957, the class of 1957. And they were, oh, they were just wonderful kids. I've kept in touch with them all these years. I go to their reunions. They're just wonderful. SY: What made them so great? Well, what grade were you teaching? PH: Then, I was teaching sixth grade. I was teaching in an overflow class, an overflow group, because there were so many, they divided them. So, I only had nineteen. Perfect! 16 SY: Oh, because this is the baby boom. This is the post-war boom. That was the first year of that. If they were twelve, then. PH: That's why there was so many and that's why they divided them. I really considered myself lucky. To have such a class. Oh! All just wonderful and they've done very, very well. SY: What types of stuff did you do with them? Do you remember some of the curriculum you did, some of your projects? PH: Oh, dear. We had to stick pretty much to the, you know, one time, it was a Friday afternoon and everybody was like this, you know. And so, I said to them, we had to do, it was a literature, world literature. We had a little unit on that. And so, they were working around the Australian area. So, I said, "How would you like to learn to sing Waltzing Matilda?" Well, they thought that was a good idea and I figured it was good for anything else, right. So, the only way that I could do it was by rote, because I had nothing to do it with. I was singing to them and there were two doors on either side. The superintendent could come in. Of course, anybody could come in either door. So, I'm singing away there to them and then, I'd have them do a part of it and then I'd sing some more and then we'd do all of it. I did it that way. I happened to be singing and I didn't have the voice I have now. I happened to be singing and Walt Gallagher was the superintendent and he came around the corner and I looked up and I saw him and I don't know what, there must have been a look on my face or something. He said, "Oh, I won't bother you now. I'll be back later." (Laughs.) SY: (singing) Waltzing Matilda! Waltzing Matilda! PH: That's exactly what I was doing. It was fun. I loved it. I did. I loved teaching. That's all I can say is I really enjoyed it. SY: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It must have been nice to teach in the school that you had gone to. You probably knew the, there were probably just a couple families and you knew all the families. PH: I knew the families but I also taught with some of the teachers that taught with my dad. SY: That's a strange experience, huh? PH: It was very strange. In fact, the eighth-grade teacher, I mean I always called Ms. Lyon, Ms. Lyon, you know. That's what you call her, I mean. She was very strict. When she was the principal, you know, you were scared to death of her. One day, she said, "Priscilla." And then she paused, she said, "Priscilla, call me Vesta. Don't call me Ms. Lyon anymore." Okay. (Laughs.) 17 SY: Yeah. PH: And it was the hardest thing for me to do. The others, there were a couple of others there, I didn't have any trouble with. But to call her, it was really wicked. Oh. I was so nervous. SY: That's hilarious. PH: I had been afraid of her in school and it sort of carried through. SY: What was your biggest challenge as a teacher? What was the thing that was hardest for you in the classroom? PH: What was the what now? SY: Your biggest challenge as a teacher. What was hardest for you in the classroom? PH: Discipline. SY: Yeah. What the expectation then of how you were supposed to discipline kids? PH: Well, of course you didn't harm. I wouldn't think of hitting them. No way. But, it just, I don't know, I never had that much trouble with it really. I had one incident and he's a graduate of Norwich. No names. He was a challenge personified, really. I knew I was going to get him. The others teachers had so much trouble with him and I determined, right at the beginning, I determined, "I'm going to win this child over." So, he came in. He did a couple of things but he came in one day and, uh, I don't know what he did. Oh. Yes. I had already put his desk down beside mine. I was headed this way and he was headed this way. So, he was sitting there for several things he had done and then, I don't know what he did now. I can't remember. I sat down and I put the children to work. I sat down and I wrote and I wrote and I wrote and I wrote. I put it in an envelope. And then, I put his mother's name on it and I put it on the corner of his desk. This is in the morning. He's got to look at this until lunch time. So, I guess you'd call it torture. I don't know. He sat there and looked at it. So, he went home. When he came back, I said, "Did you give your mother the note?" He said, "I threw it on the table as I was leaving." I said to him, "Well, that means you've got to wait all afternoon to find out the result. That's going to make it even worse. Isn't it?" And so, that was that. The next morning, I went in. He's sitting at his desk. Now, I went to school about 7:30. Early. I did my best work with planning in the morning. I went in. There sits Gary. I said, "Did you get locked in last night?" He said, "No." He said, "The janitor let me in this morning." I said, "Why are you here so early?" He said, "I just had to tell you," he said, "I didn't know how much you cared about me." Because in the note, I had written, "It's only because I care so much about so much about, that I really want him to do well. Seventh grade is very important because it will be the start of his really having to buckle down in high school and learn to do well. I 18 know he can do it but he's doing too much extracurricular fooling around." He said, "Nobody's ever liked me in school." SY: What a success that is! What a success! PH: It really was. I consider it the biggest success I had in all my teaching. I had written on the bottom to ask his mother to please come in to see me. She came in and we talked about it. She said, "What can I do? What can I do to help this along?" I said, "Well, I don't know." I said, "He's very fond of his football equipment." And so, she took his football equipment away from him and told him he couldn't have it back until I wrote a note saying that it was possible. So, I let him go about six weeks. I was going to win this one. Finally, one day, I sat down and I wrote a note. Put it on his desk. He took it home. The next morning, I came in, same time, there sits Gary, full football uniform on, hat, all this stuff they wear, ball under his arm. SY: That's very sweet. PH: Is that a wonderful story? I love it. I just love it. SY: And how did he end up doing? PH: All I can say is he now, I think he's the registrar of one of the biggest colleges in the country. SY: Look at that! He did all right, that kid! PH: I wish I could tell you his name, but I shouldn't. SY: No. Oh, you shouldn't. That's a very sweet story. PH: Oh, it was wonderful. I was so pleased. He was so cute. After I left teaching, he even wrote me. He would write me letters. He was one of the ones, when we had the, when I had the units on aviation, he really got into it. He did so well on that. He really did. He was interested and excited about it. I remember him probably being the most excited than any of them. SY: It sounds like you were a wonderful teacher. PH: Oh, I don't know about that. We did have a good time. We had a good time. Hopefully, they learned. SY: Were you sad when you were moving to New York, to leave teaching at the village school? Did you teach? PH: I did. I was. Yeah. 19 SY: Did you have a send-off when you left? PH: No. Not really. Not really. SY: So, why and you lived in Northfield your whole life so you must have been sad about leaving Northfield or were you excited about moving somewhere else? What was the, I assume your husband got a job. PH: I was excited about going down there. I just wanted to do something, you know, outside. I knew I could always come back. I liked New York. I really did. Teaching was different. SY: How was it different? PH: I had, I was called in to teach first grade one day and I was pregnant with my youngest son. And so, I kind of hesitated but I said, "Okay." I would go in. I had this little kid who, I had put them all to work and when you go in, you don't have any lesson plans and you've got to figure out something quick. You've taught school. You know. So, I worked on that and then, I was walking up the aisle, between the, of course, the seats were all together. I was walking up the aisle and this little kid stuck his foot out, tripped me and I just barely, just barely held myself up and got out of it. I got home that night. I said to Stanley, "That's it. No more. Not now." SY: What was, you know what? I'm just realizing your chair is kind of squeaky. I'm wondering if maybe we should switch chairs because the squeak is coming up. PH: Is it? SY: Do you think this chair is less squeaky? PH: Could be. SY: Let's try. We'll just move my chair over and hope it's a little less squeaky. Trade. PH: This one's more solid. SY: That's more solid? Okay. Then let's do that one. There we go. So, what was it like to live in Huntington after having lived in Northfield? How was life different? PH: We lived in Northport but he taught in Huntington. It was different but I had very nice neighbors. That made it, you know. SY: And it was suburb then, right? 20 PH: Yes. We even had some potato fields. SY: Really? PH: Yes! SY: Wow! PH: Not now. SY: I was trying to figure out where Huntington is. PH: North Shore. SY: North Shore. And where's Levittown? PH: Levittown is closer to the city. SY: Closer to the city. PH: And it's in the middle. SY: But these were, like, some of the early post-War suburbs, right? PH: Mm hmm. SY: Were all the houses kind of alike? Were they designed neighborhoods or were they older than that? PH: No. You know, Huntington was, Northport especially, they had a lot of cottages out there. People went out there in the summer. A lot of them were converted cottages. Now, they're McMansions. SY: Of course. Yeah. PH: It's entirely different. Even the house that we had, it was built in the fifties. When I go by, I can't believe it. They just sold it so I was able to look at the pictures of the inside and they've done some beautiful work in there. Good ideas. No. They're not side by side really. Now, it's condos and big senior units and things like that. SY: So, how did you like being a mom? PH: Oh, I loved being a mom. SY: You did? Some people like staying at home with their kids and some people don't. You liked it. 21 PH: I did. SY: You really like kids, it sounds like. PH: I do. SY: How many kids do you have? PH: Pardon me? SY: How many kids do you have? PH: Three. SY: Three. Okay. Are they still living out on the island or are they scattered? PH: They are. They're all down there. SY: That's good. So, you can spend winters down there with them. PH: Right. I said, "We left and they didn't." SY: Yep. What made you and your husband decide to retire back up here? PH: After my mother passed away, father passed in '60, after my mother passed away in '75, the house was ours. We'd come every summer, just doing the work that had to be done to keep it up. Other than that, we closed it. He was from Vermont. He was from Calais and I was from Northfield. It was just a given to do this. Get back to where it's quieter and less expensive to live. Right now, it's horrendous to live down there. Awful. SY: Were any of your old friends still around when you came back? Did you still feel like you knew people? PH: Oh, yeah. SY: So, it was easy to slip right back in. PH: Right. Oh, yes. No problem. Between relatives and friends, it was easy. SY: Yeah. PH: That's why I say I have the best of both worlds because I go down there for six months and I see all my friends down there and then I come up here and I have all my friends up here. 22 SY: So, of course, Northfield has changed over the course of your life but I bet there's also ways in which its stayed the same. I'm wondering your thoughts about that, ways it's different and ways it's similar. PH: Well, if you take this street, for instance, every house on this street, except for the one's that painted purple, every house is the same as it was. Off this here, we now have another street off it. That wasn't there. It wasn't spruces. It was grove up there of fir trees. It was gorgeous. They took them down. SY: Oh, that's sad. PH: It is. The Common, the Common down there has changed. And, of course, Norwich has changed. That's what we watched. SY: How have you seen Norwich change? PH: Oh, my goodness! As the buildings go up, it's just amazing. And all we ever had was the, you know, Plumley. SY: The armory. PH: Couldn't think of it. Yes. Plumley. But now they have Kreitzberg. It's just amazing. It's amazing what they've done. And that's all been since, except for the building up on the Quad, all these other new buildings have all been built since the '50s. SY: Yeah. Do you remember how you felt when you heard that girls were going to be allowed to come to Norwich? PH: Oh, that was great! Yeah. I thought it was great. Nothing wrong with that. And I was so glad when we had a girl cadet colonel. I was excited. Didn't know her but I was excited. SY: Yeah. What about it excited you? PH: Oh, I just thought it was wonderful. She did so well that she could do that. SY: Yeah. PH: She had to go over some hard bumps probably to get there. SY: I would imagine. For sure. Yeah. PH: That's, you know, the Common and Norwich, that's basically the changes that have been made around here. Not too many. 23 SY: No. I guess not too many. And, I guess, the house hasn't changed that much. No. PH: No. We haven't changed it. I had the kitchen redid. We made the kitchen larger. There was a sunporch out there and a little pantry. We put that window in which was just like this window. Did that when we first came back. Other than that, no. We haven't changed it much. I like a kitchen where people can sit when you're cooking and you can talk to them. SY: Who doesn't? That's what a kitchen is for. PH: That's right. SY: That's what a kitchen's for. I wonder if you have any last thoughts or reflections about Northfield, about Norwich, about I don't know, last thoughts. You're at this point where you're probably looking back on your life and thinking about it in some ways and, I don't know, what are you proudest of? Are there things that you regret? PH: Hmm. SY: That's a hard one. PH: That's a hard one. Yeah. That's a hard one. I probably do but I can't think of. SY: But mostly, it sounds like you feel pretty good. PH: Oh, I do. I do. SY: Yeah. PH: I don't have much to, I don't have anything to be upset about or sorry. Just getting older. SY: Yeah. PH: I said, "I don't mind." My son's going to be 60. I said, "Gee, I didn't mind when I was 60. That was a good age." I said, "70 wasn't bad either but 80 has been…" (Laughs.) SY: Yeah. It's been hard. Yeah. PH: Awful. SY: Really? 24 PH: Yeah. SY: Yeah. PH: But oh well. It's all a part of it. SY: It's part of the process. PH: It's part of the process. SY: Yeah. Exactly. PH: Nothing you can do about it. SY: No. There's nothing you can do about it. PH: I have such a marvelous support group here. SY: Yeah? Tell me about it. PH: Oh. I'm so lucky. I mean, everybody looks out for me. When I go away, of course, you see my one cat has been roaming around. Got a couple of those, another one, I mean. I have a cat sitter who comes in and lives here. He's very good. He just looks out for the cats. They like him I think better than they do me now. (Laughs.) That's what I tell him. He looks out for me. I get phone calls. "Anything you need at the store?" I am going to have a woman that I go to the store with because I don't have the stamina now to lift everything and put it in and do all of that so. She'll help me with that. At the end of the street, I have Bill Lyon, who, anything goes wrong, he's right here, fixes it. I had a leak in the basement down here along the edge. I have a friend that, her husband's an engineer and she said, "Oh, he should look at that. He can tell you what to do." So, he came down and looked at it. He said, "It's really bad. It's going to cost about $3,000 to fix that." And I go, "Okay." I'm thinking, "Oh, gosh!" Then, Bill said, "Let me take a look at it." He takes a look at it. The next thing I know, the next morning, I wake up and I hear pound, pound, pound. What is that? I go around and I look and he's down there. He's working on it. He's fixing it. He fixed it! All fixed. SY: They're taking good care of you. PH: Yeah. SY: Yeah. I know another question I have – town/gown relations. How have you seen the relationship between Norwich and the town change over time? PH: Very good question. Very good question, because there's always been, the only word I can use is jealousy, a bit of jealousy of Norwich. I always say, "If it wasn't 25 for Norwich, Northfield would be Bethel." You know Bethel? Northfield would be Bethel! I said, "I don't know how you can say that because, I mean, yes, they've taken a lot of the houses over here, down." They've done things that are maybe not to everybody's liking but the good they do. Helping with the EMTs. There's just so many things that they are responsible for, helping with the police department, the money they give for that. Sure, granted, they use them. I think people resent the fact that there's no tax and nothing coming in to the tax indecipherable, but it's a college. SY: Did the cadets also have a reputation for being kind of wild at different points in time? PH: Yes. SY: Carousing in town. PH: But it depends who you ask, you know. It really does. They were boys! (Laughs.) They would do some things some times. I don't know if you ever notice the centennial stairs had chips on them. Those chips were made, if I can remember, those chips were made, I believe, I'm going to say 1950 but give it a couple years either way. They did things like that. They rolled a cannonball down those stairs. SY: Oh my. PH: That was bad. SY: Wow. PH: It was bad but it's kind of funny now. SY: Do you remember when all the horses, during the War, all the horses left at one point, didn't they? Do you remember that? Visually, what was it like? How did the leave? PH: They must have put them on a train. Must have. SY: You didn't see it? PH: I didn't see that. That was right after the ASTP left, about that same time, '40s that they left. Oh, I know what I wanted to show you. SY: Okay. I'm ready. I won't go anywhere. I'll stay right here. PH: Oh. I'm sorry. Are we still working? SY: No. No. Is it something that should be on tape or not on tape? 26 PH: Not on tape. I don't think so. It's about the drum. SY: Oh. PH: I mentioned the drum. SY: And where does the drum come from again? PH: Will that be all right? SY: Yeah. Okay. So, tell me again about William Holden. PH: He was in Gettysburg. He came back here to Northfield. He was a very active man. It will tell you some of this in there. No. Maybe it won't. He ended up having a farm up on 12A. He was in the slate business with my other grandfather that lived on Dole Hill. That's where that comes from. I forgot how hold he was when he went into the Corp. Anyway, he was there for the duration of that. Then, he came back. He did a lot of things but he was a great part of the town business, things that went on. I believe he was also in the legislature. He just kind of had his hand in every pot. SY: Did you hear stories about him growing up? PH: Let's see. I was pretty young when he died. I can just barely remember him. SY: This is Holden or Dole? PH: Holden. SY: Holden. So, your grandfather you remember? PH: Yes. SY: Yes. PH: Well, not very well. Grandfather Dole, no not very well because died in, actually I can't remember him. He died in '29 and I was born in '31. SY: Okay. So, you never met him. PH: Never met him. SY: Yeah. 27 PH: No. I just know stories about him. Change the subject here, there's a book. There are two journals, big fat books like this. You know them. I think they go from 1885 to – SY: This is Norwich history? PH: Yeah. SY: The Ellis? Ellis? Yeah. PH: Okay? All right. It tells you about Dole. SY: About Dole? Yeah. I actually wonder about your father too. Do you know what his experiences were like at Norwich as a cadet and did he enter the service afterwards? PH: I could tell you a story. SY: Yeah. Tell me a story. PH: When he was at Norwich, he used to go home on the weekend. You could go home on the weekend. His mother made all sorts of goodies, little pies, cakes, and everything. He'd come down and he'd sell them to the cadets. There's stories about him coming back with great big boxes of goodies. They'd all be waiting for him when he got there. SY: He was a little entrepreneur. PH: Yes. He was. SY: Do you also remember, after the War, when married Norwich students were living in this sort of family housing? Do you remember that? PH: Mm hmm. SY: And it was, I guess it was over by the intersection with Route - PH: It's on 12A. SY: Yeah. Do you remember that? PH: Mm hmm. SY: What was that like? 28 PH: They were little duplex houses. There was one bedroom, one living room, sort of a dining room, and the kitchen was off that. That's what they were, pretty crude, but livable. That's where, they lived there. A lot of professors lived there too. SY: Yeah. PH: For housing. SY: For housing. People were desperate for housing after the War. Well, I don't think I have any other questions. That was great. Then, this article about the drum, where was this from? What newspaper? PH: Okay. I don't know. See, my grandmother, great-grandmother, W.W.'s wife, so that's in the late 1800s, she would take anything that was happening in the paper about them. See, even down here, there's something, I think. Isn't there? SY: Yeah. PH: Right here. Were they celebrating a – SY: Yeah. PH: She had a book, a medical book and I wish I had it downstairs. She would paste articles in it. So, I don't know whether that came from a Vermont paper or, doesn't look like a Northfield paper. SY: No. It doesn't. I don't know. Well, I'll hand it over and we'll see if we can figure it out. PH: I figured it's documentation. As you read it, you'll see, because they never had anything to know. SY: Anything about the drum. PH: Anything about the drum. SY: Your family donated it but they don't know anything about it. PH: W.W. donated it. SY: I'll go find out what the deal is with it. PH: I'd love to know when you find out. SY: I will. 29 PH: Because I've never known. I mentioned it once when I was up there and they didn't have a clue. SY: There's a new registrar. He's very conscientious. End of Recording
Transcript of an oral history interview with Mrs. Carol Todd, conducted by Sarah Yahm at the interviewee's home in Roxbury, Vermont, on 12 May 2015, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Carol Todd was the wife of Norwich University president, W. Russell Todd, and the founder of the Norwich University Center for Volunteer Management. Included in the interview are reminiscences of Mrs. Todd's early life and education as well as her experiences at Norwich University. ; Mrs. Carol Todd, Oral History Interview May 12, 2015 At interviewee's home Interviewed by Sarah Yahm Transcribed by C.T. Haywood, NU '12 May 20, 2015 SARAH YAHM: You know what hold on I haven't turned this on yet and we're talking about interesting stuff that might be good to have on tape. But what were you saying about "should?" CAROL TODD: Well I, when General Todd was a young officer and we were first living at Fort Knox I learned a good deal about what I came to feel was my responsibility or at least what I should do for those wives who are around me, who might need me, who were just like I was with their mother wasn't there, their family was far way. And in those days when you were in Kentucky and your folks lived in New England it was a long way away. There was none of the technology that we enjoy now. Now I never was very good at this but I tried my best and I eventually did the work not directly for these young people but through an organization called Army Community Services, which was a social work organization, which now has become very strong and has professional people that do it. But when it started it was folks like myself who saw the need to be available. And we did what people's family would do for people who are in need or really need, kept an eye on folks is what happened. We all lived on post in the 1950s almost everyone lived on post in government quarters, government apartments. And we were neighbors. We were friends. We knew each other. We did things. We went for walks with the babies in a baby carriage. It's a different world and I understand that but I don't know how we got on the subject but it's…. SY: Well it's interesting because JoAnn Kelley who I interviewed talks about… CT: Oh yes! Interesting yeah… SY: Yeah about um when they were in Germany I guess you know Mike Kelley was away for a couple days for some reason. CT: Sure. SY: …for some reason she had already lost most of her vision and she talks about the incredible support of the women living on post with her enabling her to be able to do what she needed to do, right? Her kid got hurt and needed to go to the hospital and the degree to which the other, the mothers just dropped everything and took care of her kids and got her to the hospital and got her kid x-rays. And she felt that very powerfully in Germany. CT: Yeah and isn't it wonderful that she was the recipient of that kind of attention, because it must have been pretty tough to be alone. I think the whole ethos of this type of 2 community has changed in this whole country. It isn't just the military that it's changed in but and it isn't just the Army. I think the whole, but, for instance in those early days wives did not work. Ha! Heavens no! I knew of one of my friends who had a job who worked for a while. And I had come from a pla--from a situation where I had been working full time and could have probably managed to continue doing personnel work which is what I was doing. But I thought, "Huh," but nobody does that, you know, that isn't what we do here, you know. SY: Did you miss it? Because you, I mean you were you know you'd had a very good education, you were trained, you were? CT: I really didn't miss it at all. I really didn't. It was, we had such a good time. It was really fun. It was really fun for a while and one of the couples to whom we were close then, they lived around the corner and down the street a little bit, we are still close to. They live in Saco, Maine and the name is Nutting, Jane and Wally Nutting, and we still talk a lot and send birthday cards and visit once or twice a year. Unfortunately they both have some health issues, well don't we all at this age if you come right down to it. And so we don't see them as often as we'd like. But there was some very, very strong bonds. We took care of each other's children, we took care of each other. It was, it was easy and it's what people did and it made it easier to do I think than perhaps a different situation. And we were poor. You've got to remember in those days there was no extra cash. Everybody was counting out to see how much money they have left for the last week in the month and… SY: And were some--were you paying for your housing or was your housing free? CT: No we were paying for it. Because there were all kinds of arrangements but everybody paid for it in one way or another. Either they deducted it from your salary if you lived in certain kinds of housing. We lived in what was considered contract apartments and I think we paid $65.00 a month which seems like, it seemed like a lot then. It was for us then. And everybody and nobody, everybody, all the women were wearing their clothes from their trousseau you know because that's, there was no running out and buying new outfits and stuff like that. Yeah. SY: So let me actually, let me officially start this interview because I need to get us on tape. CT: Please do. SY: So I'm here interviewing--though I'll transcribe that and use that it's super interesting. So I'm here interviewing Carol Todd. Its May 12, we're at her house in Northfield. Is this technically still in Northfield? CT: As a matter of fact the house is in Roxbury though the garage is in Northfield. SY: [laughs]3 CT: Winch Hill Road is, you know the dividing line goes right through our garage as a matter of fact. We can show it to you. It's painted on the floor the garage. SY: That's hilarious, yeah. It's like the Derby Line Opera House and Library. CT: Oh yes, right, right [laughs]. It's true. SY: So okay let's actually, let's start from the beginning because oral history it's a story of a life. So I guess where did you grow up? Where were you born? CT: I born in Beverly, Massachusetts which is just north of Boston - 28 miles we used to say - in 1928. I can remember, we've got a picture somewhere in our files of the funny old car that my father had to, came home from the hospital, a funny sort of thing, an open sort of sedan thing. My parents were older parents which made my birth very exciting because my mother was 37 or 8 by the time I was born and that was considered geriatric practically. She never had the first labor pain. She didn't have the baby and didn't have the baby when it was due. So finally the doc went, "Hmmm better do something about this," and it was determined well before I was born that I was no doubtful a boy. There was no question about it. I had such a slow heartbeat which I still do. But no I wasn't a boy was I? And he was to have been named for my father, it would have been William Henry. So when I was a girl, some of the doctor or one of the nurses said, "Well, what are you going to name her?" and she said, "Well I guess I'll have to name her Wilhelmina Henrietta" which caused everyone in the delivery room to have a good laugh. But instead I was named for my grandfather's mother who had died giving birth to him in 18--what is it? '34 I think, yeah. I get the numbers kind of mixed up. But no he was born in '54, 1854. And anyway, but I was named for her my name being Caroline but I've been called Carol ever since. Because at the time in the thirties Carole Lombard was very, very famous and very fancy. So lots of people who were named a word like Caroline would be named, called Carol and that's, I still use Caroline for my legal name but other than that. And then I grew up in Beverly, small town, 20,000 people more or less. Went to the public school there. Could walk to school, could walk home for lunch, back for the afternoon, back home in the afternoon, play outside in the in our yard or in the yard next door. Go sliding on down the street on the little hill in somebody else's backyard. I had ah [cough] (pardon me), I had friends that I knew in kindergarten that I graduated from high school with and one of them I still play Words with Friends to this day with. One of these girls is still my friend. It's really fun. Everybody went to a different church and I thought, was only thinking about that this morning. My sister and I and one other, Eleanor, went to the Washington Street Congregational Church which is around the street from us. But my friend Pauline went to the Baptist church which was up the corner, and Elizabeth Ann went to the Episcopal church and then another friend went to the Dane Street Congregational Church and nobody thought this was odd. I mean this is how it was. People were all mixed together I think in the public school system which was a really good thing. I can remember in the sixth grade how thrilled I was when a new student came whose name was Emilio Zarzanello. So my last name being Wyeth I was no longer the end of the alphabet when we lined up by names. So I loved Emilio Zarzanello.4 I thought that was grand. Went to all the way through the public school there, went to junior high. It was a building called Briscoe which still stands in the center of town which is the same school that my grandfather had gone to and it had been condemned during the time he was there so you can imagine what it was like then. Went to high school there at Beverly High School and that's where I met my husband whose family lived in Wenham, Massachusetts, which is an area just north of where we lived that had no high school. So he was tuitioned into Beverly High School, and I guess we just, we had lockers, adjacent lockers, you know how kids used to in high school. And l loved that high school. It was really great. Had extremely good teachers, some. A wonderful English teacher who pushed and shoved me hard to love words, to recite poetry, to do this sort of thing. And a history teacher named Mr. Bellmore who taught us how to take exams which was a marvelous thing to do. Every Monday morning he passed out a piece of paper on which there were 5 questions and these were things we were going to learn this week in American history. On Friday he would choose one of these topics, throw out a question in regards to this, give us blue books just like you had in college and said, "You now have 20 minutes to write me an essay on this subject." Well once you got the idea and got onto it all you had to do is learn the material and recite it back in written form, which he then corrected, spelling, punctuation, to say nothing of the facts and by the end of senior year I could take an exam in almost anything if somebody would frame it just correctly. And it helped me tremendously in college to have had that training. It was a good high school. SY: Absolutely. Do you remember your first impression of your husband? CT: Yeah I do. I just thought he was so handsome and he was wearing a bright red cable knit sweater that his grandmother had made for him. Isn't that funny? Yes I do. But the interesting thing was his mother had just had a baby. A what? We were astonished. And that baby is his brother Dick who we still are very. very close to but all those years through high school Russ was a big draw for girls who loved to go up to his house and push the baby carriage and knit mittens for Richard and this sort of thing. It's funny isn't it yeah? Our parents, both sets of parents sensed it once this was an important relationship for both of us. So my mother called a woman whose name I've really tried hard to remember, but she lived in Wenham and mother knew that - her name was Miriam something - she knew that Miriam would have known the Todds through the town. So she called up to ask Miriam who these people were. Meanwhile the Todds who lived down the street from this ladyhad called her to say, "Do you know who these people are that live in Beverley?" And she assured both parents that this was okay that this you know is a good relationship and everybody relaxed and said, "Okay." We went to a lot of activities together in high school. SY: I was just gonna say. So this is what year? You were born in '28 so this is… CT: We graduated in '46 so it's late forties. SY: Okay so, yeah what were, what was dating like in the early forties? What were the protocols? 5 CT: Well, the boy usually called up or said, "Do you want to go to the movies?" That's what we did; we went to the movies. And the first few times we dated we went with his parents, his mother and father, because Russ didn't drive because he, I suppose he wasn't 16 come to think--oh he must have been. Well I don't know why we wend, but anyway we did, we went with the Todds and a couple of times. And then my mother and by then my father wasn't well, but anyway and we were living with my grandparents. But my mother said, "Why don't we have him for dinner before you go out?" I don't know where we were going so he came for supper and that was a big success because he was reasonably comfortable doing that. He had met them and we lived about 5 or 6 maybe 7 miles apart. They weren't really in our neighborhood but it was another town. And that we also used to do things like go to a large picnics that the coll--school would have like the chemistry department would have a picnic and we'd all go. And I can remember one time we won a three legged race. Because you see physically we were very much the same size. Of course we're not now because I've shrunk more, but we were then. I have longer legs and he had a longer torso but we could do things like, we're very much the same shape and size which was handy for three legged races if nothing else. SY: Exactly. I'm also realizing that you grew up during the war. And so I'm wondering what your memories of wartime in Beverley were like? Do you remember blackout curtains? Do you remember rationing? CT: Oh yeah, all those things. Blackout curtains were fun. Well they weren't fun but it was interesting because you had to have them, and you had to pull them down and sometimes you pulled them down and fasten them on the sill. But if you didn't do it just right they'd unroll and go "brrrt" go up and everybody'd "oh no." We also had to paint the bottom half of the headlights on the cars because we lived near the ocean. You know we lived right there on the Atlantic Ocean. So you had to do that in order that the, to take care of the submarines so they wouldn't see you when they came in close to shore. Which of course we learned they did later. We learned quite a bit about that. My father was in the Coast Guard Auxiliary. He was of the wrong age to be in the second world, in either of the world wars. He was too young for one, too old for another. And so he used to go out with the other men on his team and walk on the beaches in Beverly and sometimes in other towns nearby looking for lights in the ocean and he'd come home. All night they'd be out, you know, like 8 or 9 hours maybe longer at night. I can remember how tired he would be and every once in a while he'd say to my mother, "It was worth it, it was worth it," meaning they'd seen something and notified the people in Boston who took care of it, you know. They had a telephone system. It wasn't like a cell phone but they had some sort of a telephone system they could call. And he also in the summertime went out in a boat with his friend Homer Riggs and looking for people who are off our coast that didn't belong there. Which was sort of interesting too. We collected tin foil when you chewed gum. You got, you know each one was wrapped in a tin foil. Maybe it still is I don't know, and we made balls of tin foil. We collected newspapers. As we recycled them then we recycled them then in the World War II. We 6 also collected bacon fat. Nasty trick but you put any fat into a tin can or some sort of a receptacle that would have a lid. I can't remember what else. Oh my mother was a hoot. She decided if my father was going to be in Coast Guard Auxiliary she'd have to do something so she joined the Red Cross Auxiliary and learned to cook for large numbers of people. I have a recipe book somewhere - cocoa for 100, meatloaf for 250, you know. She never did it, she never had to do it. But they were prepared for any kind of emergency. Well the only emergency we ever had was in our town. There were icehouses full of saw dust where they stored the ice from Wenham Lake and Kelleher's Pond which was near our house and stuff. Well time had come for those things to burn. Nobody set fires but I went to at least 3 icehouse fires during those years which, because my father would get us up in the middle of the night. They always burned at night it seemed. SY: Why would they being set on fire? CT: They weren't set on fire it would be combustion, you know, some sort of combustion, internal combustion. No, they were not set on fire. SY: Oh okay. CT: No, it just, they were accidents that happened I guess. SY: But there were a lot during that time period which is interesting. CT: Yeah, I guess, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. SY: I don't know because it would be hard for an icehouse to be set on, it just seems strange to me. CT: When icehouses empty and there's no ice in there dripping. SY: Oh the sawdust I didn't realize that. CT: You see, would dry out [phone rings in background] I suppose that maybe lightning set it on fire. I really don't know. SY: But you would wake up and you would go - CT: And my father would say, "come on quick!" so my sister and I we'd jump [sound of getting ready in a hurry] and run down and mother would be in her suit in case she had to make coca for 100, and the 4 of us would go off. And the thing was to be sure to be watch your step because my mother like both of my sister and I tend to trip on things. So my mother once tripped over a fire hose and skinned her knee. Caused great trouble because then the other Red Cross volunteers all came around in excitement to give her a bandage. That was big stuff. SY: Because everybody was all dressed up with nowhere to go, they had nothing to do but make hot cocoa for 150 [laughs]. A Band-Aid for the woman who tripped! That's hilarious. 7 CT: And she's one of our volunteers too, "Oh dear there goes Helen again." But anyway it was sort of an adventure for us. Now the other thing about World War II that made a huge impression on me - down at the end of our street, the end of our street was right on the water itself. We lived about 5 or 6 houses up. I could count them maybe I'm not sure how many. Anyway, lived a family that had a little girl that we babysat, I babysat for and my sister did and we helped take care of this girl. Nice little handicapped - she had I'm not sure what but she was handicapped. But we, so we enjoyed her. She was a nice girl. And their father whose name was Les Buck was on the train. His father, her father was on the train going into Boston one time because the Boston went in from the, from Beverly, every day so people could work in what we called in Town. In town was Boston, not, and uptown was Beverly but in town was to go to Boston. So he goes in, he's going in town, and he's sitting there minding his own business and he had had language lessons when he was in high school like so many of us do, and he could figure that the people in back of him were speaking German. Didn't know quite what they were saying but it was clearly German. "Hmm," he said. So when they got to Boston, to the North Station, he just got off and walked into where - in the railroad stations then they had a lot military police and there were shore police from the Navy all the way around Boston - and went up and said what he'd heard. And said, "those are the two men right there," and they run right over and took them away. Just because they were speaking German which sounds awful doesn't it? SY: I mean who knows? They could have, right… CT: It could have been German. Who knows, but we always thought they'd come aboard out of a submarine which is apparently did happen many times, but we thought that pretty exciting. SY: Yeah because it happened on your street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. CT: But if Russ were here, he'd tell you another story about our family which is World War I that he unearthed, and that is that somewhere in the papers that he's got of our family there's a letter that my grandfather got beginning of World War I saying: "Dear Mr. Lee, because of your exemplary behavior and your role as president of a bank in this small town you are hereby appointed by the governor of Massachusetts and the President of the United States to be on the alert on anything untoward that might happen in your community. We are aware that on the same street where you live there is a Mr. Carl Klink and Mr. Klink is now a U.S. citizen but has many relatives overseas." And you can just hear this letter. Mr. Klink, charming man, ran a bakery uptown and they said, "if at any time you have concerns about anything going on your street. You are at once to…" you know it's terribly officious letter… SY: And it's good that it was your grandfather and not somebody else who was sort of a paranoid bully, right? And would have taken him out of the bakery. CT: It's possible, yeah. We knew them really well. His wife was a friend of my grandmother's. His daughter went to school with my aunt. His granddaughter was in my 8 sister's group of friends, you know. And so my grandfather just filed it under you know, but Russ found it not long ago which it's funny. SY: It's so interesting. CT: There must have been people all over this country that got letters like that, don't you think? And now we wonder about you know privacy and all that kind of stuff, yeah. SY: That's fascinating. CT: Isn't that interesting? SY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well and the "if you see something say something", right? The post 9-11 signs everywhere. I didn't realize that that's how it was done in World War I. That's fascinating. So what about the Depression, how did your family fare? CT: Well my father had a very bad experience. We're never going to get to, we're never going to get me grown up at this rate. But my father had a very bad experience and I'll try to tell it straight because it's a little difficult. He was co-owner of an automobile agency and they sold Chryslers and Dodge and maybe one other kind of car. I was pretty young when this happened. And he went off to work every day and they sold the cars and everything worked fine. His partner was a man named Mr. Berry like in strawberry, Ralph Berry. And the story goes that one day he was ah, he got up go to work, went down to the garage what they called it, where this agency was, there were no cars, there were no records, there was nothing in the office and Ralph Berry was gone and so was every single cent in the bank that belonged to this agency. This was before the days when we had limited partnerships and we had legal protections for people who entered partnerships. In other words this man stole everything and it caused a great deal, a great deal of distress as you could well imagine. My father eventually after a few days had what they called a nervous breakdown. Now I suspect it was a depression of some sort. I don't know what it was. But I know I don't what it was. But I know that he had he to stay in bed and the curtains had to be down and my sister and I either had to be very quiet or go across the street to where my grandparents lived and go stay. We stayed over there for a little bit. And I, how long it went on I don't know, but eventually of course he got over it, whatever it was. But what else could it have been but depression? He didn't have a stroke. I don't know. He, as a result of this always had high blood pressure so it must have happened in 1937 or '38. Or no even before - '36 or '37, because by '38 when I was 10 years old, he was okay I can remember. But anyway and he died very young from auxiliary problems from having high blood pressure which in those days they didn't treat. The only thing they did he was he was supposed to be on a salt free diet. You know almost everything, even eggs have naturally some salt in them and you don't have to add anything. But my mother made salt free bread. Oh there were all kinds of goings on but he just continually got worse and worse and he died when I was a, well he died in 194-, he died in the November of 194-, October of 1949. So the last few years of his life were pretty uncomfortable for him and for all of us you, know. But Mr. Berry got off from this scot-free to the best of my knowledge I don't know otherwise. Had the nerve shortly 9 after my father died to buy a beautiful big house in Hamilton which is another small town outside Beverly, with horses and big yards, and gardens and stuff. Married a second wife and came back to town. And I thought, "What gall?" now somebody, I hope nobody listening to this ever was a relative of this man. But he just caused an awful lot of heartache in our family. But shortly after that I think it was this didn't happen to my father alone. This sort of thing was going on all over the country. Times were getting hard, the Depression was hard on people and my mother and father managed to take care of us somehow, I don't know. There was no social security. I'm sure they used up every cent of savings they'd ever had. I know when we needed things like when we got to be a certain age and wanted to go to camp my grandparents always gave it to us for our birthday present. Winter coats magically appeared, you know. I can re--the only time I ever remember anything happening that affected me personally was I said to my mother, "I really need a new pair of shoes these are getting so worn out," blah, blah, blah. And she said, "Carol I know you do," and she said, "and you can have a new pair of shoes. We're just gonna have to wait until the first of the month." And so we waited until the first of the month and I got what I needed. But there was no ah, they didn't. We were very very fortunate. SY: And they protected you from--I'm sure they were filled CT: Absolutely! SY: with money anxieties but they protected you from that? CT: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. SY: And so your father never really got his footing back? CT: Well in a way he did. Because after he sort of got his wits back together he and a friend of his who is a doctor, and the father of one of my girlfriend's, and another gentleman who we knew got together and bought cranberry bogs in Rhode Island, in a little small town called Greene, Rhode Island that's on the border with Connecticut; in Marshfield, Massachusetts which is near Quincy and Duxbury; and a third one that I for the life of me can't remember where it was. And they formed little company called the Summit Cranberry Company. These were all cranberry bogs that at one time had been very productive and had been let go and they had the great pleasure of investing enough money in it to make them all productive. It was just the time that Ocean Spray was getting going and Ocean Spray kept trying to buy them out or buy their product. "No," said these strong New England gentlemen, "we are independent growers." They loved being…well of course it was their downfall but they remained independent growers and they sold through an independent agent. Only berries to be sold in crates in the grocery store, never anything boxed or barreled or made into juice or jelly [laughs] certainly not. Just straight cranberries and they had various, all these different kinds and my mother used to go and help during harvest season. She used to go down and live at one of the bogs with my father while he was managing the harvest and she would go and I don't know did things with the various women and stuff. 10 SY: A lot of the Cape Verde immigrants worked? CT: They did, yeah. Except the foreman who was the only man I remember. His last name was Thibodeau and that's French isn't it? SY: French-Canadian. CT: So he probably was French-Canadian and he had a daughter named Lilian who was my sister's age. And one year at Christmas in the midst of all this my family got together and they said now, "We want to tell you we always put aside a certain amount of money for your Christmas." And they said, "But we just feel this year that Lillian and her sister (whose name I forgot) need Christmas treats more than you do. Would you mind if we took some of your money and gave them?" We said, "No fine with us, we like these little kids too." Which they did and you know to this day I have no idea that we got any less or any different than we ever did. We never knew the difference, you know, but I love it that they told us what they were going to do. SY: Well I think they were modeling. They were teaching you something, yeah. CT: Yeah. SY: That's very interesting so he did manage to do it. So okay do you remember going down there during harvest time? CT: Oh yeah. Sure. SY: Did you help harvest? CT: No. We were always too small. They used women and no. And I think it sort of would have been against the ethic to have the boss's children paddling around in the. But interestingly enough wherever cranberries grow so do blueberries, and we would always pick all the blueberries we could and we'd bring them home and blueberry jam and blueberry pie, and give them to the neighbors and you know stuff like that. We picked blueberries. And if my sister were here she'd tell you a story that I'm not sure. She always says that one time when she was picking blueberries she began to feel really cross because my mother was sort of supervising her and saying, "Don't pick this one we don't want any green ones" [nagging sound] and she looked around and it wasn't my mother it was a bear that was standing by her. But that was the presence she felt was a bear. SY: Oh that's Blueberries for Sal. That's a children's book that I've read, she mixed that up. Blueberries for Sal is a story in Maine of a little boy named Sal picking berries. CT: It's Robert McCloskey isn't it? SY: Yeah, yeah. CT: Isn't that, that's where she got it. SY: That's where she got it. She thought it was her own story! [Laughs] that's hilarious. 11 CT: She probably--you can see as a little kid it just seems so much like the experiences she'd had. What a hoot and a half. SY: That's hilarious. CT: We're not going to let her hear this. Sorry, sorry. SY: You should buy her a copy of Blueberries for Sal and send it to her in the mail [laughs]. CT: Golly isn't that funny. SY: It's one of my favorite children's books it's lovely, yeah [laughs]. CT: Oh I am blushing here. SY: It's so funny. Okay so that's the forties at that point? CT: Yeah and then we went to high school and we worked hard and we had 2 or 3 good teachers, but some hm-hm. Oh Latin, my mother insisted we take Latin because she majored in German in college and she thought Latin was absolutely essential that everybody have lots of Latin. Because it was so good to help you figure out what all the words in other. To this day playing Words with Friends I'll give Pauline a French word and she'll say, "No you know you can't do that." But so we took French and we took lots of Latin in school and we had a French tutor whose name was Madam DeBesey and she was a French refugee of sorts, who made us come to her house and have tea and crackers after school one day a week. And have conversational French. It's so awkward you know, but we both learned a good deal. So that when I actually went to live in France I just turned on my high school years and was able to manage. SY: So your family wasn't part of the military. It doesn't seem like the military was part of your upbringing. CT: Oh, no, no except my father being in the Coast Guard Auxiliary. No, no we didn't know anything. But Russ' family was and when you talk to him he'll tell you about his dad and stuff. SY: And so when you and Russ started dating and seeing each other and it looked like it was going to get serious, you must have realized that you were probably going to be married to a man in the military. And what were your thoughts about that about that life? CT: Oh that's a good question. I don't--certainly in the high school years and in the first few years in college I just thought it was interesting that he was up here at Norwich going to school. I was in Northampton which isn't that far away and used to come up on the train to see him, and it was kind of fun except there were those fraternities. And I'm just too much of a stick in the mud or too, I don't know, I didn't find all this hilarity and all this drinking and stuff. I was just, I was just uncomfortabl,e it just didn't suit me. And so we became friends with several couples literally who were married and we were just 18-19 years old, but who were married and lived a more somber life here in the, you've 12 heard them talk about people who lived in the trailers down where Kreitzberg Library is. And some of these people who were, I was more comfortable with because they were more staid I suppose. And but we used to do things with the fraternity too. Russ had a good time working with them and we came up here, Junior Week was so much fun where they had polo game matches. SY: Can you pause for a second? Because I realizing your chair is making noise. CT: Oh yes I squeak this chair. SY: Let's just switch out the chairs is that possible? CT: Okay, sure. SY: Because I don't want because it's squeaky yeah. CT: I never even noticed it. SY: Yeah I didn't notice it until a little a while ago. Do you want me to move it or you got it? CT: No, no I've got it. Let's try that one. That's a newer one, give it a wiggle first and see. Better? SY: Quieter, way quieter [laughs]. CT: Yeah these are pretty old chairs. Alright good, I'll try not to. SY: Oh don't worry about it. It's not a big deal. I just thought you know why not get a less squeaky chair. Okay alright so you're coming up, so do you remember your first impressions of Norwich? CT: Not really, but one of things I really miss terribly is how beautiful Central Street was. When I came here Central Street was an arch of the most gorgeous trees all over the top and they took down the last of them, the one between the president's house and the next door just this spring. Beautiful trees. It was a very pretty place in the right weather. One of the times I came up here we've got a marvelous picture somewhere of me getting off the train and being met at the station downtown with the, by Russ and our friend Jim Ricker who was in, he also went to high school with us, and he was there too. So Jim came down too and a band from the university to meet the girls getting off the bus, ah, off the train. And I thought that was pretty swift you know. We always, the women in those days dates did not stay in the dorms [laughs] heaven forbid! We stayed with people around town and Russ can tell some funny stories about trying to get dates, places for me to stay because of course his father had gone here and his mother had come up to visit him and these people all remembered his dad because Dad Todd was a terrific dancer and they all thought this was fun to have Tommy Todd's son, you know, now coming to see him. So I got to know a few people who lived in town that way because I stayed at their house. It was fun. I was glad when put do--I was glad when they closed down the 13 fraternities it didn't make sense it and we still know people who fuss at it at with us and Russ just nods his head and said, "What can you do you know, it's how it is." SY: Change tradition, grumble, grumble. CT: Yeah. SY: Yeah. CT: But and you see that was talking about too and I'm talking about the changing tradition how it bothers me in another way when it's something that affected me more such as what goes on in Army life. It's just hard as you get older. It is. SY: It is hard, yeah change is hard. Okay so you would come up and you would stay with people in town? CT: Right. SY: And you would, oh so Junior Week you were talking about Junior Week. CT: Oh yes I had, let's see they had polo matches, which were great fun to watch. They had equestrian fancy riding, what do you call that? Dressage. They had all kinds of basket--not basketball, baseball games and other things that were really fun to do, as well as a dance. But the dances were really big time, they would pay somehow to have very big bands come here - Artie Shaw and all these people. Do you know who the Ink Spots were? Now the Ink Spots, I never saw them, but apparently they did come to Norwich once because as we speak somebody on behalf of the museum is trying to buy a poster that says the Ink Spots are coming to Norwich University. SY: I interviewed a guy two weeks ago, I'm blanking on his name, super nice man lives in town. Northfield, I mean Norwich graduate, who or I don't know if he graduated but he was at Norwich for a couple of years ,and he was in a band that played all the time during that period of time. CT: Oh I'm sure. SY: But I'm sure you know him but I can't remember his name right now. CT: I'm glad to hear you say you have the same trouble because I really can't remember a lot of these people's names. My vision and mentally I can see so many of these people and what fun it was. SY: Ha-Hammond? Hammond is his last name I think. He's in town, yeah but he was he played the saxophone and he played at all of these events on campus. CT: I'm sure. SY: Yeah. CT: I don't think….14 SY: Who knows? CT: I don't know that name. SY: Okay so you're at Smith during this time and what's your vision when you're at Smith of what your future's gonna look like. Are you thinking like when I graduate, were you thinking when I graduate I'm gonna get married, when I graduate…? CT: No I wasn't. Now that's interesting because Russ was always a part of my life from the time I met him. I think in a different way than most people get married so quickly to each other. He was just, I knew so much about him and his mother and his father and his brother and his sister-laws. But I also knew that somehow I needed to do something. I wanted to do something before I got married because in those days once you got married you probably weren't going to have a career. I don't know that I put it in words or said I wanted a career, (oh dear there's the rain) but I did want to, I guess try my skills. I guess maybe that's what I was thinking. So when it was time for me to graduate I majored in sociology with a lot of economics which I wasn't so good at, a lot of French, a lot of English literature. But the best courses I'll just don't mind telling anybody I ever took at Smith or anywhere else were art appreciation my senior year and music appreciation my French year. Those have lasted me so well so well. I oh well that's another whole story but so I always say to people I know going to college, don't just focus on what you might do for a career there's so much more to learn, don't sell yourself short. SY: That's what the liberal arts are about, developing yourself, right? CT: That's right yeah. Oh that art course was fabulous. Well anyway the upshot of all this is, so it's time for me to graduate and my sister however has still got another year. she's two years younger. But she was just a year behind me in school. So she was at Smith too and my father had died so I went into the--we all has appointments with somebody in the administration. Her name was Mrs. Mindel, but I don't know what her title was. And she said, "What are you going to do when you graduate?" I said, "Well I don't know for sure but there's a course at Radcliffe I'd really like to go to, a one year program in business administration. It is essentially the first year of the Harvard Business School which does not accept women as you know. But it's very much the same thing and I just would really love to do that and see if I can get some skills there that I could use." And she said, "Okay, let me think about this." So she called me back and she said, "Here's the deal," she said, "I'm going to call your mother and I'm going to suggest that if she will pay for you to go to this program at Radcliffe, I will give your sister full room and board and tuition for her senior year at Smith." What she was doing was giving me a graduate program. And they did. SY: Wow and I wonder….what an interesting arrangement because she wanted. CT: And my mother was just thrilled. She wanted me to have that opportunity. SY: That's great! 15 CT: It is--I have never heard of anything like it. SY: Me neither. CT: And I said, "really?!" And I know that the course I went to was nowhere, it was nothing dollar wise, I don't know what my mother paid but it was nothing like. But she knew, she knew that I was, that the family was having trouble financially and that we would've, they would have seen that Anne went, she would have finished, we would have found a way. So, "oh great," I said so off I went to be a bridesmaid in 2 or 3 weddings the way you'd often do it after in those days after college. And started in August at this program. Lived in Cambridge on Brattle Street. It was just a wonderful experience, learned how to write a one page memo that told, said everything you wanted to in you know 3 paragraphs. I just learned so much a lot about personnel work a lot about accounting. SY: Were you in classes with the men in the MBA program? CT: Oh no, no, no. We weren't even supposed to talk to them. No, no, no. SY: How did they make that clear to you? They said no talking to them or no interacting? CT: No, one of my classmates eventually, Jan Campbell eventually married the guy she met there, no. It was just. We were on the Radcliffe campus which was on Garden Street, do you know that area on Garden Street? And I lived at 69 Brattle Street and we had, we fixed our own breakfast, had lunch at the dining facility that was on campus, and then took turns fixing dinner. There were 9 of us that lived - I can make something for 9 in a flash - that lived in this house. And then the rest of the students who did not live in this house of which there were another maybe 10 or 12 lived at home or boarded somewhere else. But they were people that, I was the only person, there were two of us from Massachusetts. Everybody else was from another state. There were woman who were old as 30 [chuckles] old ladies. There were people who had majored in all kinds of different things, and the jobs they went onto afterwards were fabulous. One of my classmates had a seat on Wall Street. She was fabulous, Marilyn whatever her name was. And people worked for Bergdorf Gord-Goodman, Bergdorf Goodman as a buyer. Ah Jane, became the alumni, alumni director of Radcliffe before it amalgamated with Harvard. Interesting people. And it was a fabulous year. We had classes for a while then we had the first internship program, and I was sent to a--if I say Raytheon it was, it may have been Raytheon factory where I assembled the starters in the ends of a fluorescent tube. Did you even know there was one there? [laughs] Ah I am not dexterous. I never was dexterous and I tell you my experience on an assembly line where dexterity counted was so interesting. Because I didn't, I was not the star, I was the one that was holding them back. I was the bum. I was the rich girl from the college who was interfering, and the task was to win over my place in this --you know. Nobody said this, but that was the idea, to see what I could do in a situation like this. And it turned--and in the midst of this Russ has graduated from college and gone into the Army, and in the midst of this he came home to say good-bye to everybody when he went to Korea. And those were pretty bad scary days 16 so it was kind of a tough month in lots of ways. So he went off and I finished the st--this job and then went back and had some more classes and then in the spring this whole bunch of us got sent down to New York City where I worked for B. Altman which is, you remember which was a big. I had wonderful time doing that. I worked in their personnel office interviewing employees who had grievances and all kinds of things like this. It was very interesting. SY: And so you were living in New York on your own? CT: Well we, but we all had to live in a female hotel. Did you even know there was such thing? On 34th Street. And we lived there, just for a month. We were just there for a month and then we came back and had some more classes and finished up, I suppose in June. Meanwhile the recruiters are coming out and looking to recruit some of us and I got a job offer to be a personnel assistant at Mill Parr Incorporated which was an electronics research firm in Alexandria, Virginia. Well I knew what research was. But electronic research was really, I had no idea what they were talking about. It was such an experience. So I moved down to Virginia because I had a good friend who lived there and I could stay with Betty. And eventually worked there until Russ came home from Korea and we were married not too long afterwards. But it was a wonderful experience. SY: Do you want to get some water? CT: Yeah I think I'll just have sip here. SY: So do you remember -- did you see him off before he went for Korea? Do you remember, did you talk about if he didn't come back? Like what were the conversations? CT: Oh no, nope, no. He took me out to dinner at a local hotel, Hawthorne Hotel in Salem, which is nice hotel. And we had gone a lot of times I guess, well I don't know. But I just remember that we sat there and looked at each other and no we didn't. And I think we both knew that it was a go but we just had to wait. And I had told him before and he had asked me a million times to marry him and I said, "no, no, I got things to do, I got things to do." And I said, "I've done some things, you know, I'm good." I just had to fulfill that part of me I guess is what it comes down to and talking to you about it helps me clarify for myself what I was doing. I was just needing to know who I was, I could do things, I could succeed, not only academically but I could succeed when you put that thing to work. If not in the eyes of everybody but for myself I knew that I was good to go, you know, I could do things. SY: Yeah you had to live on your own in the world for a little while. CT: Yeah, and my mother who interestingly enough had gone down to Smith too and graduated in 20-in 1913. She was determined that both my sister and I would have that background, you know, that we'd be able to be on ourselves if we needed to be that we could be strong women, yeah. SY: Yeah it's important to know.17 CT: Yeah. SY: You never gonna know what's gonna happen in life and she'd certainly had enough upsets in her life to know that you needed to be able to make it on your own. Um, I had a question that I just lost. Okay so you're living in Alexandria by yourself, are you guys engaged at that point? CT: Nope. Nope. Russ called me from Kor--no not from Korea from Japan. They had R&R in Japan and he called me up and said he would be home on the (I don't know--I've forgotten it was January something) I said great and he said, "Well would you come to New York and meet me?" His parents by then had moved and were living in Scarsdale, New York. And he said, "Come, you know, spend the weekend at the folks." I said, "I will and let me know when," and he said, "I will." And we just talked a little bit. And said, well that's what happened. I guess we were past having to really verbalize a lot you know? We knew what we were doing. We just had, I had to grow up, time had to pass. People would say, "How could you date somebody for so long?" and I said, "Well we didn't date exclusively," We--oh he used to date a friend of mine, not a friend, a woman I knew that I couldn't stand, and I swear he dated her just to make me mad, you know. It was alright. and I dated this guy Jim Ricker a couple of times and he was practically engaged to somebody else. It didn't matter. It was something else. And I dated some guys from MIT who were a funny bunch. We just needed to have some experiences before we settled down is what it comes to. SY: But it sounds like you also knew that that was eventually where you were going. CT: Yeah. SY: Yeah. Oh this is what I was going to ask. In his oral history interview he talks about how he was kind of messing up and not doing so well in school at first and how you were like "you get it together, or we're done." Is that true? CT: Yeah it's true. Let's see when that was. I don't know exactly but it was in the summertime and I was staying at my grandmother's house which because they had what they called a maid's room upstairs. They used to have, they used to have full time help of course nobody did then. A wonderful bathtub with claw feet you know. But anyway so I was staying there. So he came down and we went out to play tennis one afternoon and we were hitting balls around and I finally said to him, "You know if you don't settle down and get some good grades and make some sense out of going to college," I said, "I just am not going to marry a loser. This is just ridiculous, you know you've just got to." And he just [sounds of bickering] and he was furious. He was mad and I was mad and he went home. He went back to New Hampshire or wherever he came from and then after that he's always done well academically. Because he just, he was acting like Maggie like our granddaughter I told you about. He was just having "such a good time." SY: At those fraternities? CT: Yeah. And in the military part of it. He really liked that, you know. 18 SY: Yeah. So okay, so you've been working on your own, right? You get married and suddenly your whole life changes. So what's your new life like? How do you learn what you're supposed to be doing? What the expectations are being married to him? What's his rank at that point? CT: Second lieutenant. SY: Second lieutenant, okay. CT: Or maybe first, he may have been a first lieutenant by the time we've, yeah he was. He'd gotten promoted in Korea. See he was over there during the worst of Korea and he…. SY: And did you know what was going on with him over there? CT: He wrote letters all the time. SY: And were they honest? CT: No, no not really, no. Just as well. He had a classmate that was killed you know? Somebody from Norwich, Pete DiMartino, maybe his name was. Be sure to ask him to tell you sometime because we should remember that. No not really. I just trusted him. I wasn't, he's been in a lot of bad scrapes and I never really have worried about him. I just trust him to know what to do. He has more common sense than most people I know, and he wouldn't try to second guess something, he'd do what was right. And he'd rather do what's right and fail and do what's wrong, you know. And he had a strong sense of doing the right thing and he did. Has he told you about how he won a Silver Star? SY: No. I haven't but I haven't interviewed him yet, so I've read other people's interviews. CT: But do make, be sure that he does tell you that. Because he never tells people. He won a Silver Star in Korea at a very young man. SY: So okay, so you're, where do you get married? CT: Oh where'd we get married? We got married in Beverly at home. At the church around the corner where I grew up. And some of these same people that I told you I had known in kindergarten were bridesmaids, plus Russ's sister who's a bit younger, then my sister too. It was really nice, it was the kind of wedding people had then where we had the wedding at the church and then walked back to the house and had a reception in the backyard with beautiful garden that we discovered florists will help you make if your garden isn't looking so well and you want to have a party. You call the florist and they bring in big pots of things and dig them in. Most gorgeous garden you ever saw. It was all gone the next day or the day after they just dug. It was fabulous and yeah, we had a good time. We went on a honeymoon down to Cape Cod where some other cousins had a cottage at the beach at a tow--place that's now called New Seabury but I know it's near Barnstable I think. But anyway we went there and had a nice time. And then we drove 19 out to Fort Knox and I'll tell you that summer I had been hot in my life but nothing like that humidity, you know? I thought this place is the pits. One of the wedding presents, he'd love to tell you this story. One of the wedding presents we got was a hand mixer, but it was so hot in that house he said, "I'm going to take the hand mixer and I'm gonna make us a window fan." I said, "Russ you cannot make a window fan out of a hand mixer," and you said, "You watch me." I don't know what he did. It had do with baking pans and ice cubes and the motor from this poor little hand mixer which can turn two little beaters. Well we laughed so hard we almost died laughing. But it helped not at all, but he had a great time thinking he could fix it for me you know. SY: Taking care of you that way. It's very sweet [laughs]. CT: I have learned to say when he tells me about a new invention, "ah I don't think so." [both laugh] He's usually right. He fixed something yesterday. He's a good fixer. It has to do with being so practical and having such good common sense. I don't ever fix anything I just "oh look it's broken," you know. SY: So what did you do during the day because he was working on the base? What were you doing? CT: What did I do? SY: During that time….? CT: Gosh I don't know. We lived next door. Well one of the fun things we lived next door to young George Patton and his wife Joanne who we have been so fond of all these years. And well that's one of the things I did now come to think of it. Joanne had gone to fancy place for her honeymoon, so I think that is not a good thing to do. She'd gone I think they had gone I think to Bermuda. I think they'd gone to Bermuda and she had gotten rheumatic fever. I think that's it. I think it was Bermuda but I may be wrong but I think so. And so she had to go to the hospital because she was really sick. Well the hospital was not air conditioned naturally. So one of the things that her husband George who had no common sense you may know, he decided that we would provide her with cold drinks and it would be nice if I could help with this. I said sure. So he had a pitcher and I, we still have one like this, a pitcher that has an insert so you put ice cubes in the middle and then you. So about every so often I had to run over and change her ice cubes [laughs] but I was glad to do that. I really liked her and I still do. She was a good, she's almost 3 years younger than we are, maybe more. She'd just graduated from college when they were married. Oh so many funny stories about them. Gosh, well anyway we had a good time. I also had this friend, this Jane Nutting that I mentioned before, who I'd known from before and she was my friend. And there was a girl named Ann something lived across the street who was pregnant and that was kind of fun watching her because we were all pregnant because that's what you did then. SY: So you were pregnant? 20 CT: I was pregnant right away. Char—Tom was born in April, so. But I didn't feel sick or I didn't have any problems for a while, all through the summer. And then I came down with something that I still have because it's a really funny disease. It's called erythema nodosum which you may never heard of because most of the doctors I've run into also say they never heard of it. But it's an allergic reaction to catching a cold in the spring or the fall. In that first fall I caught a cold and then my legs, and I didn't have it as much in my arms as on my legs would break out in huge areas of black and blue. And every time a new area popped out my temperature would rise and I would look like I was sick. Well I wasn't sick it was just until that black and blue got established. Then my temperature went down and I went on my merry way. But because I was pregnant they were sure something dreadful was wrong with me. Well it wasn't and somebody finally must have checked in the medical dictionaries and found out what this was, and decided not to worry about me because I had it then and I've probably over the years had it 5 or 6 times. Which is in the spring and in the fall if I get a cold I make every effort to get rid of it right away because I don't want to go into the next stage. And I haven't had one now for a long long time. But that was that was part of it and so the first Christmas that we were married Russ's sister Jane, who was young, a bit younger, was teaching school in New York state somewhere and she said, "I think I'll come down and spend Christmas with you so you won't be so lonely." Wonderful. So she came and flew down to Kentucky and we got her a date with a British foreign officer who was there attending a class, who fell head over hands in love with Jane. Jane was appalled really his name was Anthony, "really," she said. He kept saying to her, "Oh I want to take you back to England with me. You'll love my mom." My mom, and her woollies and her tea and I don't know, Jane was, she kept saying, "I'll stay until Christmas, but I got to go home." We had parties, lots and lots of parties in those days in the neighborhood next door and parties were just people getting together and bringing your own beer, you know, and maybe somebody would get some crackers and cheese out but no big deals. And then the units would have parties and you'd get invited to the post to a party. Meanwhile Russ has gotten to be the aide-de-camp to the commanding general, partially because George Patton's mother, Mrs. Patton - darling, darling lady - had come to visit. And one of the funniest memories I have of that early summer, Joanne's in the hospital with rheumatic fever. I'm running around trying to take Mrs. Patton to where she wants to go. She doesn't have a car. So every time she needs to go somewhere, "Oh Carol would you mind running me?" "No, I'd be glad." So one day she came over to our house and she said, "I am just too exhausted, so can I just sit in here and visit with you?" I said, "Certainly, Mrs. Patton." Well my mother and aunt had given me an old two-seater couch that must have belonged to I don't know who, whose springs had long since lost their elasticity. She was a little tiny lady, she sat down and disappeared. So that she was sitting with her knees up around her -- you know how people do it? I thought, "Oh this is so bad!" Well I said, "wouldn't you like to sit," I had one decent chair, "Wouldn't you like to sit here in my wing chair would you like to sit here? I would be so happy to you know." "Oh, no, no, this is fine." So she sat there until Russ came home from work for lunch. Because they came home for lunch and he said, "Oh hi Mrs. Patton, what are you 21 doing in the hole there? Can I help you up?" "No, I'm fine." So she said, "What's up with you?" and he said, "Well they just they asked me if I want to be aid to a General Collier." And she said, "Oh good idea, aren't you excited about." And he said, "I don't know if I should be doing that or not." And she said, "You should, you should, it's a good thing to do." She said, "Go upstairs and put on a clean uniform while Carol gets your lunch on, I'm going home now and you just be your natural self. You'll get chosen." Well of course that's exactly what happened and he did it for the next year or so. But I'll never forget her sitting there in that yellow couch with her knees, oh how I felt bad. But she was always friends with us ever since, and when Tom was born she sent him a lovely baby present. And well then she went home and Joanne Patton's mother came who also is a general officer's wife but instead of being the kind you'd put in your broken couch. She was Mrs. Holbrook and she was a bit fancier. By then I'd caught on, you see, and I managed to keep her sitting in the good chair. But she used to come over all the time and it was the same sort of thing. She'd come over and say, "I do need to run down to the PX," or "My friend Peggy so and so is having a coffee would you mind dropping me off?" well it was lucky that Russ - I don't know how I got the car, Russ must have gone in with a friend knowing that I needed to, because we lived about 2 miles from where the guys were working. Oh it was a hoot but that was one of the things I did that summer and that maybe is how I learned about the community you know come to think of it. This is such a good experience for me too, I'm thinking about these things that are more critical. Maybe that's how I learn this is what you do when people need you, you fill in and do what you need. And it's fun as long as you, I didn't have anything else to do you know. That was good and I wore all my, I can remember wearing one of the dresses I had from my trousseau, a really pink really nice beautiful cotton dress and I decided to put it on one day because we were going to drop off Mrs. Holbrook I guess at an event. She was going to a coffee and could I come back at x hours let's say 11:30 to take her home again. Okay. Don't--nobody says would you like to come in, or I'd like to introduce you to my friend, no no. So I come back at the appropriate hour and I park where she told me to park and I wait and I wait and I wait. By and by all the ladies come out, the coffee it's over, and they're leaving and getting into their cars and she walks across the street and interestingly enough her hostess--oh I can see her now--she walked with her. They came over to the car and Mrs. Holbrook jumps in but her hostess says, "Oh Carol," she said, "You're so kind to take," what's her name home and all this. I said, "I'm very glad to do that," and she said, "And what does your husband do in the Army? And what does your husband do in the Army my dear?" And my dear cleverly remembered and I said, "Well he's working as an assistant instructor at the Armored School," or whatever it was. And she said, "Oh that is so interesting. My husband works for the same Armored School." Course he was the commander, you know, and she said, "I was hoping he has a wonderful time with…" She was so gracious as compared to what the other side was doing. I thought even then I thought "ha ha this is what makes a difference" you know. She was so gracious and she was so sweet to me when she had no reason to be, you know?22 SY: And do you think she said something to her husband too? Do you think like your relationships with women and other wives in some ways helped your husband's career? Is that the way it worked? CT: If so I don't know. I don't know, maybe, maybe, but I don't know. SY: If you'd been rude it might have hindered his career? CT: Well that's right. "Oh boy he married a dud," yeah. And in a way, in a way it was interesting because most of the lieutenant's wives were college graduates. Most were. I'm trying to think of anybody who wasn't. Either that or heiresses, a couple of them were really very wealthy ladies who whenever they had a party served champagne, yeah champagne this is [inaudible]. But that's right but that marriage didn't last either that's interesting. She's the only person I ever knew who got infected by dropping a pickle, a pickle fork that she was polishing on her foot when she had no shoes on. It went [makes dropping sound] and she didn't pay any attent--I thought now that is a odd thing to happen to somebody. SY: That's a strange injury. CT: But I haven't forgotten it have I? SY: And you're careful with your pickle forks I bet. CT: Never polish a pickle fork is the answer. SY: Clearly. Alright note to self. CT: If you could even find one. SY: Yeah I was just gonna say. CT: Yeah, long time ago. This is way back in the 19, early 1950s and the Army was a different game than it is now. It was a different game. It was, it was always good that Russ had graduated from Norwich. Always, it always was even so long ago. And now it's really, but when Russ got to be a general officer he was the first one in years and years and President Hart was so thrilled because they hadn't had anybody promoted in a long time. SY: Yeah. Okay so then where do you go next? I mean we don't need to go through every one of your placements. CT: Oh I can't. SY: But I guess where were the places you liked best? And what were the places you liked least? CT: And people ask me that too and I can't help but say the same thing that has sort of been my whole life. I seem to be pretty adjustable or limp I don't know which it is. But wherever I am at the time for the most part I'm fine, I'm just fine. Ah we had a really bad 23 experience - our Tom was born as I said the next April, cute little guy and he was fine and life went along until the spring when he was (in January he would have been what 8 or 9 months old) and he was learning to crawl. And I was in the kitchen, I don't know, just fixing something for dinner. Russ was reading the newspaper, watching the baby, and the baby crawled across the floor. We didn't even know he could crawl this much you know, we just had plunked him down. He crawled across the floor and I had started a coffee pot. We used to call them a Silex pot, they had [oops] two sort of bulbs, the water went "brrrp" went up into the top and then dripped down. And I had started a pot of coffee for our dinner and he heard this noise I'm sure, crawled across thought: "Hmm what is this?" and saw the cord hanging down, you know, like this. Put his hand on the cord and it broke open on the back of his neck. Ah we picked him up rushed him to the hospital and they had moved the emergency room the week before or something. Of course we didn't, who pays attention to stuff like, so we got to the hos--we got to the right place and the person, the doctor on duty was a dentist. Nicest man you'd want to know but he was no surgeon and he said, "I'm going to I'm going to have to cut off this beautiful handmade sweater this child has got on." I said, "Why not, oh yes." He said, "I'll ruin the sweater." I said, "Ruin the sweater," you know. He was in the hospital -- it was January 13. He was in the hospital in the hospital for about--his birthday, probably until the first of April. Had numerous, not transfusions, but trans--what do they call it? When they take your skin from one place put it….? SY: Transplants CT: Transplants, numerous transplants. He was just a baby. They had never worked on baby before at Fort Knox. The doctor was terrific, the surgeon, he got on the telephone with the same burn center I told you about before where Steven was in San Antonio. This is 50 years before and tells, says, "Okay, when you go to do the transplant you get on the phone with me. I'll take you through it step by step and you can do this, you can do this." And if you just see my son right now without a shirt on all you'd see is a ring around his back like this where they hooked on the transplant. Everything took and he's fine. He's never had a minute's problem with his, they took all the skin off his chest and put it on his back. They took it all off his thigh and put it on his arm. This arm unfortunately after he'd been, it turned out alright, but after he'd been in there awhile all bandaged up with catheter tubes running though it to keep his wounds soaking wet so they could work on him. They said to me, "Say Mrs. Todd. Funny little thing on your son's arm," he said, "What is that?" I said, "I don't know," "What do you mean what do you mean what is it?" he said, "It's looks as though he might have had a vac" I said, "Oh yes he had his vaccination done just before this happened." And they said, "Well you are the luckiest people in the world because it has festered and scabbed over, and all this water running through it has not opened the scab. If it was he'd have generalized vaccinia all over his whole body." But he didn't, he didn't, worked out fine. He barely has a tiny little mark there now. He's a great big 60 year old man with, you would never know. It was just if and they were so good to us and we stayed in a private room in that hospital at Fort Knox with him. One of us was with him all the time except when people began to say "We can 24 stay with him. We can keep him happy." He was-he is a very good natured person. He still is, he's very patient and even as a baby he would just lie there and look at, you know, we had a thing what do you call it, twirly thing over his head so he could…. SY: A mobile… CT: Mobile, yeah and he had a music box that he loved. I bet I used to wind that thing endlessly and as long as there was a little music going he'd be quiet. SY: You must have been beside yourself though with worry? CT: We were, we were, yeah. But people were very supportive. He was working for General Collier and Mrs. Collier used to come and babysit him. She said, "I'll stay with him. Go get your haircut or something. Run around the block. Get some fresh air. Do something." It was a long winter. And yeah, yeah. And then he came home from the hospital. He could not sit up he could not stand up of course. SY: Oh because he missed all those developmental milestones? CT: Within 2 weeks he was not only sitting up he was pulling up and he was walking in a month and he was, he just made it all up in no time at all. It was amazing. SY: And I assume, I mean he was so young he doesn't have any memories of that time? CT: None. SY: Okay. CT: The only thing he remembers is the last doctor we saw during this said to us, "When he is," I think 12 was the age, I remember 12, "I want you to take him to a plastic surgeon and have them check out these sites and there may be a place where they'll feel it needs to be repaired." They said, "We can't guarantee this will last him his lifetime." But he said, "Take him and the guy they'll know." So we were living in Germany at the time and we took him to a, wherever this was, Stuttgart to the hospital where the surgeon was, and explained the story to him. And he said, "Okay. Okay little guy come on over here. Can you climb on my lap? Sure." He loved to climb up into your lap and they played and talked and you know made his arms and legs go and he said, "If I throw a ball down the hall, will you run and get it?" he said, "Sure," so they threw it down the hall and he ran down. He was not that old, he was near 6 because he was still, and he ran down the hall picked up the ball and came back and the guy said, "Everything he's got, every muscle moves the way it's supposed to. He's fine," He said, "There's no indication to do anything." He said, "if the time comes when he gets psychotic about it, and hates the fact." He hasn't looked at his back, how often do you look at your back? Like never. He has no more and his legs and place and his chest they grew back, it all grew back. He's fine. Isn't that funny? It's wonderful. We used to say to each other that if we ever had to pay for this in a private hospital Russ would have had to get out of the Army and get a big paying job or something because the bills must have been huge. 25 SY: But they took care, it was all taken care of? CT: It was 7 dollars a week to keep him in the hospital because you had to pay for the food. Well he ate 2 jars of chopped liver, I don't know what it was they were eating you know. We were worried. On the other hand, you know I think it had gone past, we couldn't worry anymore and we had to have faith that they were gonna and I think having a good attitude helps in all these things. SY: You don't have time to be filled with anxiety. You just have to do it. CT: No, no, that's right. SY: Yeah. CT: And and neither of the girls ever had anything serious so we were fortunate, yeah. SY: Now, Phyllis Greenway has some crazy stories of you know of her husband you know her being I don't remember where they were maybe it was Fort Knox and her husband being assigned to Hawaii and her having to fly across the country with all of her stuff and the baby and do all this stuff by herself. Did you have experiences like that of just sort of having to manage these moves alone? CT: Oh yeah lots. Yeah. The first move overseas Russ had gone in the fall and I went in probably in mid-December and took Tom. He was, let's see. Yeah and he was fine by then. This was, but he had the cutest little red snowsuit with a little head and we, he and I went down to Fort Hamilton which is Staten Island maybe, and went out with a group of Army wives in a chartered flight. But we swear that the pilot had a date in Paris because we flew to Paris and they put the plane down and it was 6 or 8 hours before he came back. And we thought, "Just a minute, just a minute, we need to go Heidelberg, get over here!" and then we flew on to Frankfurt or wherever it was, yeah. But yeah and then lots of times when we moved I moved I would be -- they seemed to have a way of finding they have to be somewhere else when the. But the one thing I insisted on was that somebody else was gonna do something else with the equipment like the TV and anything else that had a cord that I didn't know how to wind up and put an elastic around sort of thing. I said, "If you can't do it, you got to get one of your buddies to come and help me. I'm just not gonna fool with this stuff." And it got more and more complicated as the older we. And the last person who ever was the one who got tapped to come and do that was John Greenway. When he was Russ's deputy he came and organized all my stuff when it was, when we were moving from Fort Hood to Georgia I guess to Fort MacPherson, yeah. SY: That's funny you guys have known each other for a long time. CT: Oh yeah we knew them well before that. Phyllis is a wonderful cook. I hope you've talked to her about that. SY: I have actually. And she's made motions about having me over to dinner. So I should remind her of that. And she has all that beautiful French cookware too [laughs].26 CT: She does and she's a good cook. SY: I believe that we talked about cooking a little. I'm trying to think because there's this, you know there's so much to talk about here and I don't want to skip over important milestones but we should also probably get to Norwich huh? CT: I think so. Well time passes [both laugh] and um let's see…. SY: Oh well let's talk about volunteering. So you begin to take on this sort of professionalized volunteer role it seems like the Army started to recognize that what you were doing was critical. So could you talk about that? CT: That's absolutely true and I'm trying to think where we were. I think it was those years we lived in France, '63 to '66. We lived oh goodness this is so--I'm gonna have to write a book. So it was such an interesting thing. We lived on the French economy. Fortunately my lessons came swirling back standing me in good stead because our youngest Ellen went to French school, the words I didn't know she probably did which was handy. But we had, we lived in a really nice house. Odd situation but it was nice and you could walk to the over to post. And during those years there were lots of young enlisted people who lived in very difficult places. They didn't speak French, they didn't know the people, and the Army Community Services began to be formed to offer assistance. You had to come on post but there were buses that ran around the community that brought people and we taught things like how to run a, do a checkbook. We taught people very basic things - here's where to find out how to buy food, you know the things that you want, here are the words in French. If you can't get to the commissary and you do go to a, here are the things in a French grocery store that you can buy that are gonna be almost exactly like you'd buy at home if you buy this, you know. It's just very very basic things but even before that, even before I had Tom I had developed somehow a reputation of being somebody who could give talks to other groups of women about really simple stuff. And it started out being with Army etiquette. That was way back when, way way back before I had any children, that first year because I knew one of the colonel's wives. I don't know how well I knew Betty Chandler or how I knew her but I did know her and she said, "Well you know could you do this?" So I started giving these talks which has led me to feeling more comfortable addressing groups of people. Particularly if it's about something I know something about. Tough when you don't, but you can usually fake it some [laughs] and then call on so and so to fill in the gaps or something. But that's really how I started doing this and then time passes and I'm always volunteering to do something. Some things I loved doing, some things I was terrible at. I really really was not good at working in a hospital. I have to go to the hospital you have to make me well if I'm sick. I will be nice to, you know, but I don't want to be there. I really did not like being a Gray Lady but that's what they used to call them Gray Ladies. For one thing you had to wear these awful gray dresses. They were made of heavy, heavy cotton and every time you went it had to be starched and cleaned. Well I couldn't afford sending mine to the cleaners so the day before I went I'd spend, you know, starching and ironing this thing. Well the whole thing was absurd so that I decided that was no good. 27 But I could do things like teach somebody how to balance a checkbook. I could talk to people about the basics of baby care and this sort of thing, and so I was glad to do it. But I began to realize as many, many senior people did the longer you're in this game how great the need is help other people use volunteers well. And how important it is that volunteers be used with compassion and common sense so that the gift that they're giving you of their time and talents and everything else are maximized for their benefit and yours. Because when you go and do something as a volunteer for somebody and come home feeling disappointed or abused it's no good. It doesn't have to be that way and that's how I got into this volunteer administration role which eventually is what became the sort of the climax of my time doing this. I worked in thrift shops, I worked every sort of thing, organized all kinds of events in this sort of thing but the best thing I really think I did was begin to show them how important it was that the people who manage and lead volunteer programs have an understanding of some of the basics. Such as a volunteer needs to have a job description. A what? I said a job description. You don't need it be very long, it does not have to be complicated, but if you ask someone to do a task you have to know what the parameters of this job are. Ah amazing! Ah and because of this I wound up going with Joanne Patton as it turned out to Colorado to the University of Colorado at Boulder, and that's a wonderful place, to go through a summer program and I did it twice with her about how to help people become good volunteer managers. And that woman's name was Marlene Wilson and she wrote the first book ever for volunteer managers - and I think I've still got my tattered copy in there - in about 1980. And so it really was during the time that we were here that I began to do more and more of that. And I think that may be one of the contributions I made was generally to people I ran into I kept trying to say, "Let's get this straight. Exactly what are they supposed to do? How are you going to thank them down the road? Is there a chance that they could be the boss of this? They could be the team leader? Or no." Those things need to be thought through and you need to put the whole task in language that everybody feels comfortable with. SY: Yeah what was the assignment that the chief of staff gave you in Europe? CT: [chuckles] Well that's right. That was the last time, that was in late '70s before we came here in '82. They began to realize how important this sort of thing was, so they asked me to take this assignment to, on behalf of the Army, to go around the various places where Americans were stationed and talk about this with the commander and the commander's wife and anybody else would listen, and some of the volunteers to be sure people were having a good experience volunteering. And I wrote a quarterly newsletter for them about what was going in Bad--what's her name over here in Frankfurt or Heidelberg just sort of encourage people and just say we were all in this together and we're trying to make life better for all of us here as volunteers and it's worth it to do it. And you met with various levels of success but it was worth doing, it really was. SY: And did you also see gaps in the kind of Army infrastructure? CT: Oh yeah. 28 SY: Yeah, yeah, what did you notice? What did you? CT: I noticed that there would be places where the commander and his wife could care less about the situation. And perhaps there were needs for transportation for one thing, so that people who lived what we called on the economy, lived out in the community, could not easily get -- if the husband went off to a duty somewhere else or on the "into the field" as we used to say to do exercises, the wife would be stuck out in the. So we used to talk about setting up transportation networks, you know, could Mrs. X contact Mrs. Y and they could work out something together or not. Or do we need to work on finding some way that a bus goes around talks to people, yeah. That was one of them. But mostly there was a tremendous, very, very nice response to my interest. And because I was doing it sort of with a little bit of authori--I didn't mean authority, but people knew that they were supposed to listen. And I enjoyed doing that. And that made it very easy for me to move into the role that I had here because it's the same thing, or least it was the same thing. SY: And that's actually a question, how do you think you -- I mean the first lady of Norwich, the president's wife, that role of being sort of the president's wife - how did you conceptualize it? And how do you think you conceptualized it differently than the women who'd come before you? CT: I knew Marilyn Hart and we must talk about this again before we go further. I knew Marilyn Hart because they used to come and visit us a good deal. Wherever we were there would be Norwich events and often, I don't know often but enough that I felt like I really knew her. You know she's a really nice lady had 2 kids, got a son Matthew and a daughter whose name is I've forgotten I'm sorry to say. But and we would talk and visit I would take her on functions and things like that. And I knew darn well that I never could never fill the same function that she did. She had been a faculty wife. She had worked with him all the years helping him do things. I'm sure she corrected papers. I'm sure she did everything. She was really smart. But she had a fabulous memory a fabulous memory. I admired that so much. She would -- the receiving line he would be first and she would be second and any number of people, they could be students, they could be people from the State Department would come through, she would know who they were just from seeing them. And she would say to him, "Joe Smith, English class of '64, '64, he shoveled snow for you one time." And he would say, "Joe, remember the time you came and shoveled snow?" I could never do that. That wasn't, I couldn't do that. On the other hand she wasn't comfortable organizing a luncheon or saying, "I think we should do something or support." There was a woman here whose husband was the athletic director her name was Jen, his name was Wally Baines, her name was Jen Baines. And Jen wanted to have a faculty picnic twice a year. "Good. Let's do it." The Harts had the role in this, not of encouraging them and seeing people came and this sort of thing, but of sitting at the door with a checklist seeing who showed and who didn't show up. Well no matter what anybody thinks, no matter how much you might [inaudible] you gotta remember who showed and who didn't show up. It set things off in a bad note. So we29 said well we won't, we don't need to do that. So I'd say to Jen, "How many people you think are going to be there?" "Eighty-four." I said, "Eighty-four? Wow that's great. Just about everybody." I said, "Is everybody who might like to come, do they know about it?" She said, "Well I don't know about the people in physics." I said, "Well what should we ought to do?" I said. She'd say, "Well I ought to." "Or maybe you ought to call up somebody." I said, "I'll be glad to call up somebody just to be sure they know." That's nothing. That doesn't hurt anybody's feelings. I think I spent a lot of time sort of trying not to hurt people's feelings. SY: And easing things over, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah so that was a big part of your job, right? CT: Yeah it was, yeah. I'll tell you something else Marilyn Hart did which I think was amazing. She addressed a Christmas card to everybody on the University's list. I think there were 800 names on that list, not only people who worked here but people in town, people in Burlington. And the first year when they came to me at Christmastime and they said, "Here's your list," I said, "Give me a break here, what do you mean?" And they said, "No this is the job of the president's wife to address the Christmas cards." I said, "Then there won't be any this year. You don't want me doing it believe me you don't." They said, "Whose going to do it" and I said, "Don't ask me, I don't know. You'll have to figure it out." Since then somebody on the staff has just had to start addressing about in September. But you can do that, you know? You can address the envelopes anytime. SY: Yeah but that, you weren't, that wasn't the way you wanted to spend your time. CT: Oh I wasn't--I wouldn't even consider it yeah. SY: So talk about the role you did end up playing. The Peace Corps was pretty critical huh? CT: I wound up working almost working full time in lots of ways as a volunteer, because I was always a volunteer. It's what I did. SY: Though by the end you were getting paid, right? CT: Pardon me? SY: You were getting paid by the end, right? CT: Yeah, in a way. In a way. My hus--did I tell you? explain this to you? Yeah about how Russ took part of his salary and had it given to me instead. SY: So it was symbolic, but it seems important. CT: Well it, by that time it was to me, really, yeah. And I don't know how much the university knows about that. I, I don't care if they do or not. SY: It's the same money going to the same family I don't think it matters, but. 30 CT: Well it did because it helped my social security contributions. But not enough to do any difference. That was okay I was glad to--the whole business about the Peace Corps Prep Program started because I was very active in this Association for Volunteer Administration which was a national organization. Ah really a…a busy, a small organization, but a good organization for people who are in the same area, who are interested in making volunteerism not effective, effective is a good word for it is. And it was before we had national volunteering, before, it was when the Peace Corps was getting going, it was well before AmeriCorps and all this business was started. And these women met once a year and I eventually became the vice, one of the vice presidents for this and served on lots of committees I think because I come across as being efficient, reasonably efficient. And Chris Frankland who was the president asked me to fill out, fill in a second national role and I did that. And I really liked doing it, I liked the people I worked with. It isn't, the organization is now defunct. They made a big mistake in hiring an executive director that they didn't vet appropriately. The man wiped them out every single cent and disappeared and they never, they never could get going again. They had lost all their assets. SY: It's like Mr. Barry. CT: It is! it is! It's the same idea! It is the same idea! Oh my goodness, aren't you smart. I never thought of that. Ah yeah it is. Well anyway, but anyway so that's now defunct. But anyway, still I had these ideas that I should do this. But during the time that I was active in this association we had a national conference as we did each year, and I went and I honestly do not know whether it was in Buffalo or somewhere. But anyway someplace I'd never been and we were having a big luncheon and I was sitted, seated, next to one of the women who was to be a speaker whose name was Loret Miller Ruppe. And Loret Miller Ruppe was the head of the Peace Corps at that time and we were just [chatting sounds] you know just chit chatting, lady talk. And the speaker for the luncheon got up to speak and it was Father, Father Theodore Hesburgh who was the president of Notre Dame. And he essentially said he thought it was high time that higher education took on the role of training students to do volunteer work in the same way they chose to train young men and women to be part of the national service, part of the Army, Navy, Air Force, etcetera. And he said, it is just as much of a need for people to be trained to be good volunteers to head up volunteer organizations. I wish I had a copy of his speech, I never did, but that's essent--I listened to him I thought, "Oh my socks." Russ and I had talked about this ever and ever so many times since when he'd become president that one of roles he saw needed to be fulfilled, somebody needed to do something about the fact that the students who were not in the Corps, most of them at Vermont College in those days when we still owned Vermont but some of them down here in Northfield were not having the same opportunity to become leaders as the people in the Corps were. They were not being given that opportunity to do something beyond themselves, to stretch, to learn the outside world. And he said, he said "I don't know," he said, "I just don't know how to do that." And I said, "Well I don't know how do that either." 31 But when he, Father Hesburgh did, I thought, "I know how to do this. I've got this idea." And I turned to Loret Miller Ruppe and I said, "Ma'am I think Norwich could do that." She said, "Carol, Norwich would be a perfect place to do it. Do you think you can?" and I said, "I'll ask," and I said, "Please don't say anything and I'll go and call and see." So I called Russ, got him out of a meeting and I said, "Don't say anything just listen," and I said, "I need to tell Mrs. Ruppe if we're gonna try." And he said, "We will." He said, "I'll find a way, we will." Well it must have been just before a board meeting because the next time the board met they said, "If you want to try it, go ahead." Meanwhile back at Norwich we have somebody who's a vice president named Peter Smith. Do you know Peter? Who he is? He had run for Congress from Vermont. Well there's more to it than that but anyway and been defeated. No, wrong, he had become a congressman. He, I'm not sure about his career. He had either been in--no he hadn't been in Congress at that point, he had been the lieutenant governor of Vermont. And he had written a Ph.D. thesis on Vermont College which was terribly interesting for Russ to learn when he took on. He knew about Norwich when he took on the job, he didn't know. SY: Why, I wonder what his thesis was about? CT: About the fact that Vermont College had absorbed all those programs from Goddard which is about as far off block as Norwich is you know they're kinda [chuckles]. Well it was a big job to try and pull all this together, but we were giving it a go. So he said, so I called Russ and he said yes to it. The board said yes to it. Peter Smith meanwhile said, "Let me see what I can do about getting you a grant." Good thinking. He got us FIPSE grant, do you know what FIPSE? The Fed, now the Federal, no the Fund for the Improvement of Post-Secondary Education, Department of Education. If I was smart enough I could have told you the amount but I don't remember but he got us a grant to get started. Now if I had taken a salary we wouldn't have had much money left so I was, I didn't need anything. So we had some money and I made up out of whole cloth as best as I could a program that looked like ROTC training but wasn't, was focused on various on other things, which one of them was learning how to manipulate, to act in a culture that was not your own. This was one of the things and having appreciation for others, for other communities. And so it took a while to get this thing sort of organized and once I got a program sketched out I had to go before a committee of the faculty to get their approval. Can you imagine? I was a wreck, but I thought, "Okay I can do this." So I went before the committee and I made my little talk and do you know David Westerman? Oh Professor Westerman, David Westerman he's a geologist. But he's also the guy who is the head of the program at the University for Student Research. You guys really need to be aware of this. SY: Oh you know his name's been mentioned to me because he also collected some geology artifacts I think. CT: Oh I'm sure. SY: Yeah, okay. 32 CT: I think he goes to South America and brings home chips of stuff. I don't what he does. He is the most understanding, thoughtful, articulate. He's, I'm a big of David West--. David Westerman was on that committee and he said, "Well Carol, I'll tell you what, I think you've got some good ideas." He said, "You need to smooth it out a bit but I say you're a go." And he met with the rest of the committee and I said "What did they say?" "Oh sure, good, approved." And I thought, "Oh, he saved my life." I mean he just and then he was helpful in giving me some ideas. And what I'd really like to do is to, maybe another time when we get together is to get into your records, what it was the program looked like. It was a 2 year program for anyone who is not in the Corps. That's all you had to be, not in the Corps. You had to be any elsewhere. And you took classes and you did internship in the summer. And the internships were on Indian reservations. I can remember somebody went overseas on their own ticket to get into something, you know. I really have lost a lot of the details but I spent about 2 years maybe 3 working on this. And one of the big things I had to do which was very helpful was send reports into this FIPSE organization. They assigned a women, I'm sure I'll remember her name if I think of it long enough. She wanted a report from me every Friday. Well I couldn't do it. I finally got to every other Friday, you know you'd spent too much time writing the report then actually out doing something which got to be kind of old. But with their support we were able to get this thing rolling. We were able to hire former Peace Corps volunteers to act as professors. And one of them was Don Hooper. Does that mean anything to you? He lives here. Do you know Don and Alison Hooper? SY: You mentioned it to me, yeah. CT: They make the wonderful cheese, goat cheese, Chèvre. Well anyway I'm sure that somewhere I've got the list of who those people were. Then it got to the point where it had gotten too much and there was enough money left in the FIPSE pot to hire a director, which we did. And it worked reasonably well. But when my husband's time here was over and President Schneider came and things changed there was, I don't know how to put it, it just didn't work out anymore. And they had not been a big success. There hadn't been hundreds of students flocking to it. Every once and awhile you'll hear about somebody from the, from Norwich that goes into the Peace Corps. The Peace Corps itself is not what it was. It's nowhere near as near well-funded. They don't have the leadership of somebody like Loret Miller Ruppe. You know things change. But it wasn't a bad idea, it wasn't a bad idea. SY: No it's a really good idea. So because you know you can go into Peace Corps without previous training right? CT: Absolutely. SY: So this was just to create more effective Peace Corps volunteers? So it was sort of an auxiliary program to the Peace Corps training that would follow? Was it sort of like a? CT: Well no they weren't that interested in it but it was a way of encouraging people to do this kind of service, and to do it effectively. Yeah that's right. And there were people 33 that were int--there was a guy named Mike Kim and Michael Kim was one of these ones who went through it and he eventually became a priest interestingly. SY: I'm interviewing him next week. [interview pauses and resumes] SY: So what were we, what were we talking about? Oh yeah so another thing I read in your husband's oral history was that when you first got up here it must have been mud season, looking at the place you were like, "I don't know about this?" CT: Well of course I'd been up here a lot as a student. But then you're sort of rose colored glasses, you know. But the day that we drove up here to be interviewed for the job it was March at its most March-like, and as we came down the road, which was not this lovely access road we have now from 89. Oh no, twisty turny. There was a cow - did he tell you about this? There was a cow standing beside the side of the road behind a fence. Literally it was up to its udder in the mud and I thought, "Russell," I said, "We cannot live here. This is just awful." He said, "Oh for heaven's sakes. It's just one cow…" I said, and I thought to myself, "Okay, if…" I knew he wanted the job so much. He would have loved, he always hoped he could get the job to be the facilities manager here because he said, "I could love fixing it up." He said, "Never mind, we'll get a facilities manager to fix it up." He said, "Oh this is going to be so great." I thought, "Uh huh." So we came to the interview and we stayed in guest quarters where at the time where the infirmary is, not the new one the old one. And as I told somebody once long ago and I thought it was rather apt, it smelled like your grandmother's cottage after it had been shut up for the winter you know that awful musty [sniffing sound], "Oh it's getting worse here by the minute." And then Jackie and Jerry Painter who you don't know they live in Micminnville Oregon, he was the treasurer, they came and picked us up in their lovely new Buick and it made all the difference in the world. We had a wonderful, fun dinner and they had us in stitches laughing it was so friendly and nice and it was, I thought, "Okay, we can do this. This will be alright. We can clean up the guest quarters. We can do this." Then we were interviewed and I don't remember much about the interview except when we were all siting around. Nobody interviewed me much I don't think. I don't know what I did. But finally Ken Smith, who you don't know, he's dead now but and you wouldn't know. But nice, nice guy, said, "and now General Todd I see that you have no Ph.D." Russ said, "That is correct." And Ken Smith said, "and what do you intend to do about and when will you be getting your Ph.D.?" And my husband said, "I intend to do nothing and the answer is never. Any more questions? No, alright we'll move on." But Ken Smith became his dear, dear friend just a wonderful. Ken Smith could write one of those citations on a, on a, on some sort of a document or when you get an honorary degree, the citation, oh they were wonderful. His use of the English language was just gorgeous. I really loved him. He was great. But anyways so I really didn't like it much so I said, "Okay," if you get the--Oh and then we went to New York City to some lovely club I don't know where, to be interviewed by the board who was meeting there too to interview us the very same weekend because we had just come home from Europe to do this. Fortunately I had new Blylie suit so I was feeling very fine. I always bought a 34 new suit or a blouse if I was going to be in an interview and it seemed to help and I do advise that for interviews. So we went to New York and we got--and Russ was starving, you know if I'd get nervous I don't care if I ever eat. He just gets hungry and hungry. And so we went there and went into this interview and these people were all finishing their lunch and they said, "Have you had any lunch?" Russ said, "No, I haven't." And they said, "Let's get a menu for the Todds." I have no idea what I had, no idea at all. But he decided he'd have French onion soup. Can you imagine eating French onion soup? Nope. I thought, "Oh my God can you imagine so stupid to have?" well of course he managed to get the job and eat the soup at the same time. But it was, I thought, "French onion soup! Idiot!" [Laugh] So that and when we left that interview I knew it was a go. You know I knew it. They told us the next day or something but I felt really good about that. No it was longer than that. Because Russ went back to Europe and I stayed with mother because that's when Sarah was getting, our daughter was getting married about a month later so I stayed home. And George Patton called from the board meeting to tell Russ because we'd been friends for so long. And Russ was really pleased. And then he started getting ready to you know come, reading stuff. And it was a fairly in a way a hard transition because we'd left everything in the military, put it down, and we had a month off. And meanwhile I had taken a tumble somewhere and cracked my hip or something, so I was on Motrin when Motrin was brand new which was great. And we went to England, had a wonderful time in England. I had a friend who's not there now. Lived there, we spent some time and then we came home and then we came here. All pretty, we retired on one day and started here the next sort of thing. It was good. It was good. SY: Wow and then? CT: Loved the house. Was thrilled with the house on Central Street - you know where it is on top of the hill? Because my grandmother lived in a house not unlike that so I knew where the furniture was supposed to come, sort of thing. Oh I liked that house it was fun to live there. SY: And were you glad not to be moving? CT: No I don't mind moving. SY: You don't mind moving. And then clearly you've come to love Northfield and this area. CT: I know it! Oh so originally I said, "Okay now here's the deal. If they offer you this job 5 years, I will stay here 5 years because you'll have plenty of time for you to make an impression." But I said, "I don't," and he said, "Fine, should I tell them 5 years?" I said, "Tell them nothing, just know that I'm telling 5 years." You know "Okay." So after about 3 years he said, "Well now I'm going to have to tell them I'm leaving in 2 years." I said, "You're what? You're what?" I said, "No we live here." He said, "Alright we stay 5 more." I said "5 more." But I knew he was very certain from the beginning that 10 years was what he wanted to give, that he felt anything that could do he could do in 10 years. After that he was afraid he would not be effective. That was his rule to himself so I knew 35 we weren't gonna. But then we said, "Hmmm what are we going to do after that? Hmm I don't know." Let's find some land here in this area and that's how we found, a friend found this and suggested it. SY: It's beautiful. CT: Yeah. But there's another part of my career that I've never gotten to and we don't need to elaborate this, but after the Peace Corps Prep Program I started the Center for Volunteer Administration and taught volunteer administration for 2 years or 3 through Continuing Ed over at VC. SY: You did? CT: Oh yeah. I had a friend named Anne Mills who worked with me and the two of us did this and I felt good about it. I trained maybe about maybe 50 people around here. But you know the thing is they have the same problems, you know the problems don't go away. People don't write plans, they don't take it seriously. I've gotten some of the worst fundraising letters lately and it makes me, of organizations I care about! Good Beginnings - did you get a fundraiser from them? They didn't sign it! SY: I don't. I mean I'm just friends with them on Facebook. I don't get letters from them. CT: Yeah it's a wonderful organization I really think what they do is super, but all you need to do a little, pay attention. No, but way too much of that. But I, nothing that I can do, or nothing that we can do could change that except make people more aware. National Life was a big supporter, really helped, always gave us space and we had a friend who'd been an officer in National Life and she got us a couple of grants to help run that program. So but I mean and then Russ really retired retired I did that for a little bit and then I just thought, "This is just too much fun you know." And then we since '92 I can't believe we've traveled a good deal and we've been all and I was down there looking through some of the scrapbooks and there's tons of pictures of various interesting people, and had a good time. SY: Yeah, so um so was that were you getting paid for was for running the program? CT: No, no, no, no. SY: No. CT: No. SYU: I don't know why I keep asking that. It's just because I'm thinking about the arc of your life and I'm thinking about you wanting to take those couple years before you got married, and I'm just wondering if it mattered to you in that way as validation? CT: No. No. You see when Russ was first, when we were first in the Army and Russ was a lieutenant, we and during the first, even after Sarah was born we were so, they did not pay Army officers a lot of money. We were so tight to the chest and we were so careful even to this day it kills me to pay more than I think I should for a pound of bananas. We 36 just were really careful, and we, even when we had 3 children even by the time Ellen, we were still really, really watching. It wasn't until Russ made general officer really that we got enough money that I didn't have --I remember one day Russ said, "You don't have to worry anymore. You do not have to worry anymore. There's always enough money. There's always enough that you could." Well he knew I didn't have too fancy taste. I didn't want anything fantastic. But he said, "You can stop worrying." It's meant an awful lot to me. I suppose I'm worrying because my mother worried and never said anything. And I'm sure the children didn't have any idea of this, why should they? This is just a burden I bore but it was my own doing. I didn't have to. I just was like that and it's been lovely. I can remember you know lots of times when I thought, "Hmmm if I spend $25.00 for that, no I can't do that," you know, this sort of thing. SY: You were a Depression baby. CT: Yes. SY: This is what your generation did. CT: Yeah. SY: You knew that the rug could be pulled out from under you at any moment. So it makes sense. CT: Yeah, even at the point when you're in the Army you knew that. Well we never had any concern that Russ would lose his job you know. I suppose he could have done something awful but he never did. I sort of trusted him not to do that, but that's right. I never thought of it that way but that's what it is. But it wasn't, it wasn't easy. And then when we came here of course we had not only had his retirement but we had a very modest salary from the university, because for one thing the university could afford nothing else. They - Russ had said, "I think I'll just tell them that I'll work for the first 5 years for no salary." I said, "No, no, no. That's not fair. Even if it's a little we can manage on very little, but." Mary Roux, you know who is our - you know Mary Roux runs the Uniform Shop? She was our, she came to work for me the day the moving man brought us to Northfield and she stayed with us the whole time until we retired in '92. And she was our housekeep--she was supposed to be our housekeeper but of course she became a third daughter which was really great, and yeah that was really nice to have full time help that the university gave us. She did everything for us, she cooked, if I needed her to she ran errands, she did anything. SY: You hosted a lot dinner parties you needed help. Or you need your mother's cook book on how to make hot cocoa for 100. CT: I know it. But she and I cooked a lot because we couldn't afford to pay the food service to have dinner parties, so Mary and I we made apple crisp, not for 100 but I think for about 60 one time, you know. And we did a lot that--hors d'oeuvres and stuff, and I have lots of recipes of Mary's, little recipes that she found that she whip up on a Thursday and I could serve on Friday night if I had to sort of thing. She was wonderful 37 about that. And that was in the days when this University was just going on but we were determined to put up a good face you know. SY: Keep up appearances. CT: Keeping up appearances, yeah. SY: Yeah, yeah. CT: But it was, it was, it was a great life. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have done it differently. I wouldn't have wanted to live in one place. I guess a regret, I suppose it's a regret although it isn't to, our 3 children live all over. They've gone their own separate ways. They're very successful kids to me. They've done what they've needed to do or wanted to do, but they're far away. I think it would be so nice to able to say, "Come over for coffee," or "You and your family come for Sunday dinner or something," and there's none of that. We make a lot of effort to talk a lot on the telephone and they're wonderfully good to us. But I can't see moving to California, I certainly don't want to walk, move to Washington, D.C. and Tom even worse he lives in Olympia, Washington which is charming. We have no connections except them there you know? We have to, our connections are here and in Massachusetts because Russ has cousins there and I have 1 cousin there, and we have our high school friends and we have new friends that we've met there that are good to us too. So this going back you know when I say I don't mind moving that's kind of a falsehood because I fuss and fume but I can do it and we do it twice a year. We move and pick up and [laughs], I left my winter coat down there this time instead of bringing it. I will need it in November here particularly since now those Todd Lecture Series people who've been told 100 times, "Please don't have anything after the first of November," November third next year, November third. And I need my winter coat. Now that sounds like a minor thing, but we've got to go back because I am not going to go to that parade in November without my winter coat and I'm not buying another one. Well I might. There you go, that's a thought. SY: You're a Depression baby you're not going to buy another one [laughs]. CT: It's true. SY: So ingrained, not gonna happen. CT: And I suppose people study Depression and of course you get into the end of it aren't you? I mean people who are much older than I am aren't around too much. SY: Yeah. CT: Yeah. SY: You're getting to be that last generation. CT: Yeah. SY: Yeah. 38 CT: But it was a hardworking generation. Think of our parents. Gosh yeah. SY: Yeah. CT: Yeah. SY: How long have we been talking? 2 hours! [laughs] This was, I was fascinated the whole time. I don't know if I have any other questions. Do you have any last thoughts?
Issue 29.3 of the Review for Religious, 1970. ; EDITOR R. F. Smith, S.J. ASSOCIATE EDITOR Everett A. Diederich, S.J. ASSISTANT EDITOR John L. Treloar, S.J. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS EDITOR Joseph F. Gallen, S.J. Correspondence with the editor, the associate editors, and the assistant editor, as well as books for review, should be sent to REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS; 612 Humboldt Building; 539 North Grand Boulevard; Saint louis, Missouri 63~ o3. Questions for answering should be sent to Joseph F. Gailen, S.J.; St. Joseph's Church; 32~ Willings Alley; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania tgto6. + + +. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS Edited with ecclesiastical approval by faculty members of the School of Divinity of Saint Louis University, the editorial offices being located at 612 Humboldt Building; .539 North Grand Boulevard; Saint Louis, Missouri 63103. Owned by the Missouri Province Edu-cational Institute. Published bimonthly/ and copyright ~) 1970 by at 428 East Preston Street; Baltimore, Mary-land 21202. 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Qu~tions for answering should be sent to the addr¢~ of the Qu~fions and ~swe~ ~itor. MAY 1970 VOLUME 29 NUMBER 3 HERBERT FRANCIS SMITH, S.J. A Method for Eliminatin Method in Prayer Mental prayer is, .or should be, one of the most per-sonal of all activities. It is an interpersonal event in-volving mutual love and self-communication, and noth-ing is more personal than loving. -Still, beginners in mental prayer usually need helpful hints drawn from-the lives of the saints and others pro-ficient in prayer. These helpful hints come down, in practice, to a method of prayer. Here is a genuine dilemma. A method is an invasion of prayer; a lack of method means inability to pray. How do we solve the dilemma? By giving, beginners a method o[ prayer together with insistence that they jettison the method as soon as they can proceed without it. Among another class of meditators an even more serious dilemma arises. These are the people who have made progress in prayer and withdrawn from method for a while, only to find now that their spontaneous prayer has grown sterile. They seem to need method once again, only now the happy remembrances of per-sonalized prayer induces such a revulsion for method that they are tempted simply to drift rather than submit to codified guidelines anymore. It is above all to the people in the second dilemma that I propose a method for eliminating method in prayer. What these people really need is a method of preparing themselves for prayer. They need a method outside oI prayer Ior eliminating method in prayer. This method for eliminating method is, therefore, not for beginners. It presupposes one experienced in prayer. The method for eliminating method contains, 4- 4- 4- Herbert F. Smith, $.J., r~ides at Joseph s College in Philadelphia, Penn-sylvania 19131. VOLUME 29, ].970 345 4- ÷ REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS incidentally and subordinately, a method to be used in prayer in emergencies. This contingency use will be ex-plained later. It is my con~,ictioh that virtually all who .pray men-tally, need some method of preparing for prayer if they. want optimal prayer and progress in prayer. For this reason I recbmmend the method of eliminating method even to those who are not conscious of either of the ~t~lemmas presented above. The preparation for prayer to be proposed here.can be used as a method ~or elimi-nating method above all by those who have reached the prayer of faith or even gone byond it.1 As a preparation for prayer which can be taken into prayer, what I am going to say here will be as salutary for beginners in prayer as for anyone. For clarity's sake, I will divide this article into three parts: the preparation for prayer; the prayer itself; and the post-prayer activity. Preparation [or Prayer The'best time to make preparation for the next day's mental prayer is in ttie evening before retiring. This is true even if the mental prayer is not to' take place in the morning. The reason for this insistence on the night l~reparation is the nature of the human psyche. Human "thought needs an incubation period in which to germi-nate and gestate. We are inclined" to theidea that all of our thinking is done. consciously; but the fact is, as Freud noted, that conscious psychic activi~ is only the latest arrival 'on the scene of psychic life. The soul never sleeps, and the night can be used to, good purpose if one collects himself to God before he retires. God "gives .to His beloved in sleep" (Ps 127:2). Evening recollection is important even in the shape it gives our dreams. Fur-thermore, preparation for prayer gives our thoughts a definite focus that ~eeds both our conscious aiad sub-liminal psychic processes dui:ing the day. Many great breakthroughs in human .thought have flashed into consciousness at moments when the subject of the in-sight was ~ving all his conscious attention to some other affair. This is proof enough that the inner life of man goes about the concerns of his heart even when he is least aware of it. These gifts from the inner life, how-ever, are not altogether gratuitous. We must plant our questions and our hopes consciously if we want our sub-conscious to give the increase. We do just tha~ by making evening preparation for" the next day's mental prayer. Once we become proficient at ma~ng this preparation for mental prayer, it need take no more than three or ~. ,1 To review the stages of prayer, see a book like Dom Godefroid Belorgey's The Practice of Mental Prayer. four minutes. Initially, tho~gh, ten or fifteen minutes are required. An ideal way to begin tlte preparation is to read a passage from the Gospels; il only for a minute or two. Then lay the Gospels aside and ask oneself the critical question: What do I want to meditate about? At stake here is the insistent fact thatI prayer ought to begin with oneself. A brief reading from the Gospels can establish the climate of prayer, but ~nly the person himself can specify the optimal start"ing point. To automatically meditate on the passage jus~t read can be a fatal error for the next day's meditation. Of course, if a person yearns to take up the Gospels and make them the sub-ject of his meditation, he shbuld do it, but because it is his desire, that is, because i~a reality he is starting with his desire, that is, himself. In prayer, I must begin with myself. I am the only apt launching platform for my prayer. The reason is that prayer, z's has already been said, is one of the most per-sonal of all activities. To ~start with something other than self is to make of medi'tation a study rather than a prayer. No one who wrote a book of meditation points months ago or years ago can tell me here and now what I want to meditate about. Here and now the points probably would not be apt for the authorl Those who use point books ought to us them as I suggest they use the Gospels. Read a set of points, lay the book aside, and ask: Now what do I want to meditate about? If the answer is: The points I hav~ ~ust read, do not use them ¯ exactly as they are, but personahze them according to the method I will introduce shortly. If it can be said as a general truth that failure to ad-dress God in prayer signals failure to love Him, it can also be said that failure to pray personally enough is failure to love rxghtly. Accordingly, we must discover apt and personal prayer eacliI single day. Apt and personal prayer can only start with myself, as I am here and now, thins day, this evening, with its whole train of circumstance.s, concerns, and desires. If simply ignore the whole existential situation, and let a book impose a prayer subject upon me according to such a random determinantt as the page I happen to be on, my prayer cannot possibly emanate from .that per-sonal psychic center where my in-depth living is going on. The result is that neithe~r my heart nor my attention will be captured by my pr~ayer. I will remain divided between my concerns and my prayer. Approaching the same point from another avenue, we can say that there is no really deep prayer without rec-ollecuon, and there xs no recollectxon wxthout presence to the self. I must be collect~d to myself and my deepest ÷ ÷ ÷ VOLUME 2% 1970 34? + ÷ H. F. Smith, S.]. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 348 concerns before I can communicate myself to God or to any other. Only if a man enters those inner depths of the self where what he really is, unknown to others and often even to himself, is operative, can he enter into profound relationship with He-who-is. Profound rela-tionships depend on self-communication. The man who does not possess himself cannot communicate himself. We have all had dinner with someone so distracted by every trivial occurrence in the room that he was no com-pamon at all. His hollow presence was an insult. The Lord Himself likens prayer to an intimate evening meal together: "Look, I am standing at the door, knocking. If one of you hears me calling and opens the door, I will come in to share his meal, side by side with him" (Rev 3:20). I must, then, choose my own topic and make my own points out of my own reality to release my own love. That is, I must do this unless lack of prayer experience, exhaustion, or utter dryness compels me to go for help to another. When that happens I must return as soon as possible to my own initiative. My own points may not sound as sublime as the ones in the book. They may not be as sublime, but they may be much more power-ful in moving my emotions, my insights, my convictions, and my actions. A man must bring his current hopes, expectations, frustrations, concerns, and desires into his preparation. Please note: I am not saying: "Make your problems your prayer; bring your problems into your prayer." Such ad-vice would in no way constitute a method for eliminat-ing method in prayer. I am saying: do bring your prob- .lems into your preparation for prayer so that you will not have to drag them into your prayer. In your prep-aration begin with your current concerns; and within the few minutes it takes to prepare points, you will often see that they are really trivial matters yapping at your heels and demanding of you an outsize amount of concern and worry. By giving them your sharp attention for a moment, you can "spank them and put them to bed," and then go far beyond them to give your freed attention to the realest, deepest concerns of your inner self. Only in this way are you likely to have the undi-vided attention absolutely necessary to pursue your real desire, which, in advanced prayer, is to find your Be-loved. There are times when a person's preparation will be-gin with a current problem and end with a current problem. Finel If that is as far as he can get, he has dis-covered that the concern is grave enough to require his prayer time. He can now make his concern his prayer instead of letting it be a distraction--which it certainly would have been if even his full attention cannot put it to rest. I believe many of our worries and concerns continue to plague us only because we never dearly and definitively bring them to our own attention, resolve to do what we can about them, and then commit them to God. We neither focus our minds on the problems nor free ourselves of the problems, and so they continue to wear away both us and our prayer. This approach will gradually eliminate our parasitic worries and cause our other concerns to fall into per-spective and subside. When the surface calms, we will begin to be able to look into our depths and to see clearly once again our realest longings and desires and concerns. Then and only then can we make them the part of our prayer and our lives that they deserve to be. We have triumphed over the distractions, decoys, and red herrings. We are on the way to finding our true selves. It is difficult for a man to find himself, especially in the beginning. It takes courage to seek out what we are. It takes industry to reject the laziness of rote. It takes energy to think and probe. None of us want to use method, but some are really too lazy or too insecure to do anything else. Yet it is only by entering deeply, per-sonally, subjectively into prayer, and engaging in a genuine personal relationship with Jesus that we can avoid reducing prayer to a mere surface phenomenon incapable of producing fire in mind and heart, and so incapable of catalyzing that inner renewal of mind and heart which the Gospels call raetanoia. Let me quote what the great psychiatrist Karl Jung has to say about the failure to adopt an in-depth approach to Christian-ity: The demand made by lmitatio Christi, i.e., to follow the ideal and seek to become like it, should have the resuIt of developing and exalting the inner man. In actual fact, however, the ideal has been turned by superficial and mechanical-minded believers into an object of worship external to them, an out-ward show which, precisely because of the veneration accorded it, cannot reach down into the depths of the psyche and trans-form it into a wholeness harmonising with that ideal. Accord-ingly the .divine mediator stands outside as an image, while man remains fragmentary and untouched in the deepest part of him. Christ can indeed be imitated to the point of stigmati-zation without the imitator's even remotely approaching the ideal or heeding its meaning; the point here is not a mere imitation that leaves a man unchanged and makes him into an artifact--it is rather a matter of realizing the ideal on one's own account (Deo concedente) in the sphere of one's individual life? The cowards who fear entering into themselves or into ~C. G. Jung, Psychological Reflections, ed. by Jolande Jacobi (New York: 1961), p. 279. 4- Method in Prayer VOLUME 29, 1970 349 4. 4. 4. H. F. Smith, $.]. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 350 Christ will never make real progress in prayer or salva-tion: "But the legacy for cowards., is the second death in the lake of sulphur" (Rev 21:8). It is much easier to fall into some one else's thought pattern than to plough my own way into the future through the use of my own personality, my own initia-tive, my own efforts to think. It is much easier to use someone else's points for meditation than to generate my own. The sad thing is that unless I choose my own sub-ject for meditation and formulate my own points, I will journey in some one else's direction, not my own. I will enter into his thoughts, not mine. I will enter into his self-discovery, and not necessarily discover myself. When we want objective truth, we must go the Church and to all wise men. But when it is a matter of legitimate per-sonal concerns and paths to happiness, there is no sub-stitute for one's own inner voice. The Book of Sirach has some telling words on the point: Finally, stick to the advice your own hear~gives you, no one can be truer to you than that; since a man's own soul often forewarns him better than seven watckmen perched on a watchtower. And besides all this beg the Most High to guide your steps in the truth (37:13, 17, 14, 18). Unlike extrinsic assistance, self-made points hold real promise of self-transformation. The man who makes his own points is most likely to find the way. down into his inner depths and unleash the white hot magma of love and desire that will then break forth into the conscious world of affection and action for Christ. Each of us is best able himself to find and tap his own potential en-ergies. The thoughts that go into making points constitute not only a discovery but a personal experience, and there is no substitute for personal experience. I must begin with what are really my questions and my yearn-ings if the answers experienced are to move me deeply enough to change me into the likeness of Christ. No one else can experience for me, and no one can fully com-municate to me his experience. Let Karl Jung address himself to this felt need for one's own experience of profound realities: The best cannot be told., and the second best does not strike home. One must be able to let things happen. I have learned from the East what is ,,meant by the phrase Wu wei: namely, "not doing, letting be,' which is quite different from doing nothing. Some Occidentals, also, have known what this not-doing means; for instance, Meister Eckhart, who speaks of sich lassen, "to let oneself be." The region of darkness into which one falls is not empty; it is the "lavishing mother': of Lao-tzu, the "images" and the "seed." When the surface has been cleared, things can grow out of the depths. People always suppose they have lost their way when they come up against the depths of experience. But if they do not know how to go on, the only answer, the only advice, that makes any sense is "Wait for what the unconscious has to say about the situation." A way is only the way when one finds it and follows it oneself. There is no general prescription for "how one should do it." 8 There is still another compelling reason for each of us to make his own points. Unless we do we not only may fail to open a fissure through which the flaming energies of our inner life can emerge to become the vital force of our prayer, but we also refuse to open our inner life deliberately and consciously to God, and to ourselves in His presence, so that we can deal with the contingencies which this self-knowledge will certainly give rise to and so that we. can expose the paleness and sickness we will find there to His healing light and care. We are afraid and ashamed to expose burselves even to God, though He alone can heal us. We are also afraid to discover God in our own depths, for fear of the claims He will make on us and the changes He will demand. Jung has clearly discerned the widespread fear of these inner realities. He has found it in high places where it ought not exist: If "the theologian really believes in the almighty power of God on the one hand and in the validity of dogma on the other, why then does he not trust God to speak in the soul? Why this fear of psychology? Or is, in complete contradiction to dogma, the soul itself a hell from which only demons gibber? Even if this were really so it would not be any the less con-vincing; for as we all know, the horrified perception of the reality of evil has led to at least as many conversions as the ex-perience of good.' How can we make any progress in prayer unless we expose Our inner life naked to both God and ourselves? How can we be fully human unless we admit to our-selves that the furnace of our psychic life is full of the raw energies that can be fashioned into" every human desire and every exalted and perverted action that has ever come out of a human being? How can w~ be-fully human without knowing what we can become, or with-out asking God to help us avoid what we might become and to become what we ought? Until we know ourselves rather fully, how can we be deep, or fully unified, or recollected, or ourselves, or facing reality, or communi-cating ourselves whole and entire to God and to man? It is clear to a student of comparative religions like Professor Mircea Eliade that man both loves God and fears Him. Man wants to run to God and run away from Him. Man's psychic life is an amorphous thing. Subcon-scious currents run in contrary directions. A man can both love God and hate Him, cherish Him and resent 8 Jung, Psychological Reflections, p. 28~. ' Jung, Psychological Reflections, p. 522. Method ~ Pr~r VOLUME 2% 1970 ÷ ÷ ÷ H. F. Smith, $.]. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS Him. Leonard Bernstein's symphony Kaddish vividly portrays this malestrom of emotions which we hide in the subconscious because we think it would be blasphemous to let this raw magma break through and rush up into the open daylight of consciousness. Yet where else can it be tamed and channeled? Where else but in daylight and the open air of exposure to God's grace can it cool and harden and thereafter remain, like the granite and the basalt of the earth, as the memory of the ancient volcano of our revolt, and of God's understanding for-giveness and loving conquest over the self-destructive contradictions rending our own inner selves? There are nuns who need a psychiatrist to tell them they would like to have children; there are nuns and priests who leave the religious life when they discover they have desires for marriage. These people have lived a life divorced from their own souls. Every healthy nun knows she would like a husband and children, and every normal priest knows he would like to marry. That is, they know they share with every human nature these intense longings and powerful drives. No priest or nun is called to suppress these longings by trying to pretend they do not exist. They are rather called to control these drives and consciously forego the joy of their fulfillment for the sake of pursuing their higher, virginal love and service of Christ and the Church.~ The practice of daily communing with our own deep-est selves to make our own points for meditation will help us to keep posted on all these powerful and dan-gerous currents within us. Suppression of awareness permits dangerous psychic pressures to mount, but these vents into consciousness will have the opposite effect. The foul gases of cold or hateful or resentful feelings toward God, can escape, giving us opportunity to feel ashamed, and apologize, and be cleansed and healed. Experienced meditators should be able to make their own points without difficulty, after practicing for two or three weeks. Once they have discovered what it can do for them, nothing will prevent them from continuing except neglect or laziness. These confident statements presuppose that the persons addressed are doing daily spiritual reading, especially of the Scriptures. They pre-suppose a broad knowledge of Scripture and the memory of hundreds of favorite passages which come to mind spontaneously when they are germane to the thoughts of the meditation. I do not believe those who lack a broad knowledge of Scripture can use this method. Healthy Christian prayer hardly seems possible without the knowledge of Scripture wherein God teaches us to pray. Only two people know what I ought to pray about here and now: God and myself. In fact, I reduce that to one. God knows, and I have to find out. That is what I ought to do each night. That is the project of making points. By starting with myself I am most likely to be able to find out. It is also there, in my deepest recesses, that ! am most likely to find God. And only if I find Him will I be truly at prayer, which is not thinking, but communication and communion. Prayer is a work of two. We come now to consider the actual making of the points. As I set about making points, I should be con-sciously guided by two master facts. The first is the stage of prayer I have reached, and the second is my frame of ~nind at the moment. Often these two concerns are in conflict, and one of the purposes the points serve is to resolve this conflict. Master fact one. In slightly advanced states of prayer the meditator is often ruled by the desire to find God in prayer. He no longer wants to reflect on spiritual truths or current events in his life. He wants God's company. Furthermore, he is plagued by an inability to meditate any longer. The reasons for this are taken up in treatises on the stages of prayer.5 Master fact two. The meditator's frame of mind is, for instance, troubled by an event of the day and he wants to think about it. These two desires are in conflict. Unless he resolves the conflict before trying to meditate, he is likely to drift back and forth between the two concerns, not knowing which is the prayer and which the distraction. I would like to give an example of a set of points made in this state of conflict. I am in a stage of prayer in whick I habitually want to find God. At the same time I am concerned about my health. Apparently I have done what I can t:or it, but still I am concerned about it. During the last two or three days, the worry has in-truded itself into my prayer. For the subject of medita-tion I choose: The Divine Physician. The scene to oc-cupy my imagination: ]esus putting clay on the blind man's eyek. I ask the grace: To put myself in the care of the Divine Physician. I now think about the subject for a moment (instinctively guided by the two master facts listed above), and reflectively expand it into three points. FIRST POINT: The God-man, the true Physi-cian. SECOND POINT: I put myself completely in Your care, Divine Healer. THIRD POINT: Lord, now that I am Your concern, You can be my concern. I now choose some phrase which in one or a few words cap- Again I refer to Belorgey, The Practice. Method in Prayer REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS H. F. Smith, $.]. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS tures the essence of the meditation. I call it the SPIR-ITUAL CAPSULE: Divine Physician, come! Something very important has transpired here. This simple preparation, which in practice might take me no more than a couple of minutes, was actually a miniature meditation. In this preparation-meditation I have ended my concern by deliberately turning it over ~to Christ. I did that in the second point. At that point I eliminated the conflict and left myself free to pray about my deep-est concerns. That fact is crystalized in the third point, where my attention is focused on the Lord, and I have actually already begun my interchange of affection with Him. In this mini-meditation I have disposed myself for the p.rayer of the presence of God by giving my current concern the momentary attention it needed, which was all the attention it deserves. This telescoping of a medi-tation which might formerly have taken an hour to get the same results into a minute or two is characteristic of persons who have reached more contemplative states of prayer. It proceeds intuitively and almost instantane-ously. It is also characteristi~ of contemplative states of prayer that meditation is displaced from prayer time and is skillfully and spontaneously carried on at odd moments during the day, and at the time of prepara-tion for prayer. Prayer preparation is, in contemplative states, a time to run quickly through meditative mat-ters and then put them aside, and thus put the soul in peace for contemplation. Let us now take the example of a set of points which a man might make while he is in the stage of the prayer of faith, on a quiet day when nothing is troubling him. The master fact governing his choice is his yearning for non-verbal communication with God: SUBJECT Resting with You by faith. SCENE Desert, where You invited the Apostles to come and rest with You (Mk 6:31). GRACE To be still and know that You are G~d (Ps 46:10). FIRST POINT "Commune with your hearts on your beds and be Silent" (Ps 4:4). SECOND POINT "Peace, be stilll" (Mk 4:39). THIRD POINT You lead me beside still waters, You restore my soul (Ps 23:3). SPIRITUAL CAPSULE God There are a number of useful things to be noted in this example. The meditator is addressing God even in the course of preparing points. He sees no sense in talk-ing about God in third person when l~e can address Him directly. Further, he loves to address God and have God address him in God's own words taken from Scrip-ture. And he has culled from Scripture and put down from memory passages he has recently memorised in the course of his Scriptural reading because they aptly de-scribe and Scripturally vouch for the authenticity of his current form of prayer. Finally, he summarizes his whole meditation in one word, knowing that even one word is too many to use in this stage of prayer. A man in the prayer of faith or beyond may make points similar to this most days for months at a time-- or even ~ears. He makes fresh points each day, because there is always a different nuance it is important to ex-press, but the essence remains un.varying. He is in com-munion with God on a deep level little affected by the transient times and tides of each day. The two examples given make it evident that I pro-pose a standard framework to contain the meditation. I call it the spiritual filing cabinet. It is the format made familiar by St. Ignatius. The advantage is that of any filing cabinet. It makes it easy for me to remember and sort out my thoughts each day, since I never vary. the cabinet but only the contents. I write down the medita-tion each night, but just before falling to sleep I can easily recall it from memory because of the standardized framework. On evenings when the preparation is fully successful, I will have disposed of all other concerns by the time I reach the third point, and there be swept up into the presence of God, where I hope to remain until after the hour of prayer the next morning. In that case, I will not recall the points when I compose myself for sleep. The points have eliminated themselves by pro-jecting me beyond them. They have proved their power to be selpeliminating. Let us take an example of a third mood, which is a composite of the two preceding moods, and see the points that come out of it. Personally, the meditator would like to spend his prayer time simply dwelling with God, but he feels he ought to bring the whole world into his meditation. To which of these conflict-ing desires is he really being called by ~race? The an-swer is that if he is in a contemplative stage of prayer such as the prayer of faith, the presumption must be in its favor until experience gives contrary evidence. After all, arrival at such a prayer is a personal invitation from God to come apart and rest awhile. Furthermore, by his contemplation the person is disposing himself to be God's servant to the world. Still, in preparing his medi-tation, the meditator may be able to synthesize the two diverse thrusts of his desire: SUBJECT The God of concern for the world SCENE The God of the world is within me, who am part of the world GRACE To be one with You in Your labors for men, my God and their God FIR, ST POINT 0 God of all origins, Father ingeneratet + + + Method in Prayer VOLUME 29, 1970 + 4. 4. H. F. Smith, S.]. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 356 SECOND POINT 0 God to the world, Incarnate God-Sonl THIRD POINT 0 God to the world-in-process of being reborn, Holy Spirit with usl SPIRITUAL CAPSULE Com~, Lord Jesus! In this meditation the meditator has succeeded in gain-ing a synoptic view of God and the world, thereby rec-onciling the seemingly opposed desires of his state of mind. Whatever direction his meditation takes in the morning, it should be able to take it without distraction from unreconciled contraries. Sometimes, when there are a few extra minutes avail-able, it is useful to jot down a few sub-ideas under one or more of the three points. Under the first point of the sample meditation just given, one might jot: You are the Father who has instructed us: "Be fruitful and mul-tiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion." Under the second he might jot the words of Jesus: "Fear not, I have overcome the world," and "I have come that they may have life and have it more abundantly." Years ago, I used to find this helpful, but now I generally find that it only clutters up the meditation and interferes with the simple contemplative gaze the preparation helps me to achieve. Anyone willing to experiment with this method for eliminating method may discover to his joy that while he used to wander to and fro from one book to another looking for something to help him meditate, he now easily discovers what he wants. When he asks: "What do I want to pray about, Lord?" the subject readily comes to mind: The quiet of being with You. "What scene to quiet my imagination?" John leaning on Your breast. What grace? To renew my knowledge of what it means to be with You. Point One: Resting here with You. Point Two: Listening in my heart to what You say. Point Three: Returning the love. Spiritual Capsule: I to You, and, to me, You whom my heart loves. In all of this, I have begun with something even more personal than Scripture. I have consulted God and my-self, and from there gone on to use Scripture, as God's means of communicating with me and I with Him. Slowly I formulate what God and I are to one another at the moment. I find God, and, as best I can, remain with Him until the time of formal prayer the next morn-ing. The Praying Itself If I am to pray in the early morning, the time to begin praying is the moment I awake. If, on awaking, I am in the presence of God, I make no attempt to recall my points. I simply remain with Him. When I come to the formal time for prayer, I do not use my points. Points are not lor use. I abide with God. I pray con-templatively, in a form of non-verbal communication represented by the names, prayer oI faith, prayer ol quiet, and so forth. Of course, this method does not produce such a state of prayer. It only facilitates it for those who have attained to it. Often, it is only by turning away from thoughts of God that we can turn to God, for no thought can con-tain Him, but a thought can distract us from Him. One nun to whom I had communicated these reflections wrote me: I've read a little over half of the Ascent to Mount Carmel. I like John. He is very gentle, thoughtful, and humble. 250 pages of how to do nothing in prayer. You sai,d, it in one sen-tence: "Don't think about God; think God.' I understand that all this background is essential, though, especially since I have not yet learned how to do nothing. This self-eliminating method can help us to bank the flies of our own recollection until it reaches the in-candescence of the prayer of the presence of God. The method is for those who have found and want to hold on to the prayer of communication, communion, and union with God. It is for those quiet enough to hear the call to this prayer, and courageous enough to take the solitary path to their meeting alone with God. The points are designed for self-elimination, but they are also meant to serve as an emergency auxiliary. They are supposed to put us into the orbit of our normal prayer, but they are also' supposed to rescue us if we fall out of it. Should I be unsuccessful in finding God when I awake in the morning, I recall my points and mentally run through them. I center my recollection around them until the time for formal prayer. On coming to prayer, I put aside my points and make another attempt to find God without thoughts or words. If I do not succeed, I resort to my points once again, ' since I have put into them the matters which mean most to me at the mo-ment. They should help me to pray the prayer of sim-plicity, or the prayer of affection, or at least to do some meditating. If not, I will have to turn to some other alternative, such as meditative reading of the Scripture, but only as a good spiritual director, or a reliable book on the stages of prayer, advises.n Sometimes when we attempt to prepare our own points, we will find we are devoid of every thought. We have no choice but to resort to some one else's points. Or do we? That is the time to turn to past sets of our own o In advanced states, it is not easy to know whether we are praying successfully or wasting our time. See, once again, Belorgey, The Practice, or the works of St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and others. + + + Method in Prayer VOLUME 2% 1970 357 Sm~t~o S./. RELIGIOUS 358 points, prepared out of our own heads in .richer seasons, and stored up for barren days. At times when I have felt repelled by the thought of any book and unable to prepare a meditation of my own, I have frequently re-sorted to stores of my own points. Almost always two or three sets will guide me into prayer and. recollection within minutes. Once again I am experiencing the grace I received in the day and hour I first used those particu-lar points. Roads we have used to God in the past often remain viable if we can locate them again. We should return often to the sites where He has visited us in the past. This method of preparing points is very useful even for those in earlier stages of prayer, but for them the preparation will not be self-eliminating. They will of necessity take their self-prepared material into the prayer and use it to feed their meditation. They will enjoy most of the benefits of this highly personalized and creative method of prayer. For them too it minimizes method, reduces foreign elements in their prayer to a minimum, and guides them to personal discovery of Christ. When beginners use this method of making points, it will have to be modified somewhat. O[ten, they will not be able to prepare points out of their heads. What they can do is take a Gospel event, analyze it, and put it.into the spiritual filing cabinet according to their own bent. Under each point they should jot down personal ideas and experiences relating to the Scriptural themes. If no personal ideas come, they can be trained to use the ref-erences to related passages such as the Jerusalem Bible gives in such abundance. Looking up these related pas-sages and jotting them down as sub-points will help deepen their understanding of Scripture and develop their power to meditate. They should take about fifteen minutes to prepare points in the beginning. Before long they will show more deftness and originality in use of the method. I taught this method to a group of young sisters with assurance that it would work. Not long after, one of them wrote me: You know, Father, at first when you told us about using our "spiritual capsule" before bedtime and that in time we would awaken at night and find ourselveg" talking to God, I felt it would be years until that could ever happen to me. But it has happenedl Post-Prayer Activity We ought to record worthwhile insights, experiences, and meetings with God in prayer. Reading them over some time later can be the best fuel for future points. As already indicated, we should store up successful self-made points. It is practicable to make points each day in a small note book, dating each day as we go along. When we want to make a post-prayer reflection in writing, put it in the same place. In the future when our mood is such that we want to return to some explicit past meditation, we will be able to find it with ease and benefit by it again. This method for eliminating method in prayer has been well tested and proven. It requires some trouble on our part, but it eliminates a lot more trouble than it takes. It is a method with a high yield. For surely he is going to make the most progress in his search for God who starts not from some one else's starting point but from his own. + + + VOLUME 29, 1970 DOM JOHN MAIN, O.S.B. V ew Dora Johu Main, O.S.B., a monk of Ealing, is presently living at St. An-selm's Abbey in Washington, D.C. 20017. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS Once upon a time a small boy and his old uncle were out for a walk in their city. It was a large city and had in it all sorts of wonderful modern buildings and wonderful modern people. It was called Secular City and was beautifully situated in a deep valley with spectacular high mountains rising up all around it. The small boy and his uncle had strayed into an older part of the city, and the boy was very surprised when they came upon a large building in a ruinous condi-tion. This was an altogether unusual sight in the modern city, and the small boy was upset by it. He thought how marvelous the ruins must have looked in their day. Pointing to the ruin, one feature of which seemed to have been a very high tower, he asked his uncle what this ugly eyesore was doing here. The old uncle sighed; he hated his young nephew to see anything that was ugly. "Well," he started, "I can remember that building well. It was very fine in its day, with a great high tower which reached way up above Secular City. They said that the view from the tower was absolutely stupendous." "But how on earth did it become such a ruin?" asked the small boy, looking now with an even greater interest at the noble ruins. "Well, you see," the uncle started, "a rather special group used to live there. They really did a great job for the whole community in rather a strange sort of way. You see in our Secular City we are stir-rounded by mountains and, as a result, we tend to get rather closed in on ourselves. It's rather difficult to ex-plain, but we tend to think of everything in terms of Secular City. Well, the group that lived there built a large and very high tower--to see the wonderful view; and in some strange way this view of theirs seemed to add a new dimension to the life of the group that made them rather special people in Secular City." The boy listened to this explanation with great at-tention. He wondered how a view could have so changed a group. Turning his innocent face to his uncle, he asked, "How do you mean--special people? Did the view make them a bit odd?" "I suppose it did in a way," the uncle replied, try-ing to recall the group to his mind. "We could never quite understand why they were so concerned to pro-vide schools and hospitals, orphanages and old people's homes. We just accepted the fact that somehow or other the view was at the back of it all." He thought very quietly to himself and added: "Anyone who needed help seemed to become the concern of the group. It all happened a long time ago, and I can'( remember too. well now; but it seemed that they brought all their talents together and used them wherever there were people in need." The uncle had not thought of these things for a long time. It was the dedication of the group that now struck him as the hallmark of their work. He wondered, to himself how he had been so lacking in curiosity about the view when the group had been such a creative force in the city. The little boy now looked really puzzled. "Well, what happened," he asked, "How did it all become a ruin? Did some tyrant come' and run them out of town?" "You remember me telling you about the tower, and how hard it was to climb to the top," the uncle went on. "Well, it appears that over the years, the staircase that went up to the top got rather old and worn out-- I think there was woodworm or maybe dry rot--and the group decided that they would have to rebuild it. And that was when all the trouble started. Some of the group just wanted to repair the staircase, but others said that was no good because the dry rot, or maybe it was woodworm, ~vould just affect the new wood. Then someone who was really very modern got the idea of pulling down the staircase and putting in an elevator. The trouble with this idea was that they couldn't get the elevator shaft in without pulling down the staircase, and that's when the trouble really started. In the old days, you see, there had always been some of the group either at the top of the stairs looking at tile view, or. some of them on the way up to encourage the others. I'm not too sure about this, but I think it was.rumored that even before all the discussions started, there. weren't quite so many climbing so high up the tower. I think I remember it being said that the group spent a lot of time looking after all .their plant and not quite so much time getting up to the view. In any case, they all seemed to agree that the stairs had to be rebuilt. But, when this argument started, they all got so involved in the discussion about the elevator, that ÷ ÷. ÷ VOLUME 29 1970 361 ~ ÷ ÷ + Dom John Main REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 362 they all began to come down to join one of the com-missions they set up." "What's a commission?" the small boy asked, looking rather puzzled. The old uncle tried to look very wise. "A commis-sion," he faltered, "was a part of the group set up to examine some particular problem. They usually passed out questionnaires which everybody had to fill in, and these suggested new questions and more questionnaires. I never really understood the process---but I believe it was quite essential." The little boy did not seem to be paying much atten-tion to this; and, turning his perplexed face to his uncle, he pondered: "But was anyone trying to keep going up the tower to see the view while those com-missions met?" He was only a small boy, but it seemed to him that if the view had been so important in the past it might even inspire the work of the commissions. "I suppose some were," replied the old uncle, "but then they all seemed to get nervous about the founda-tions." "The foundations," replied the small boy, now look-ing at his old uncle with something like incredulity. "Yes," went on the uncle. "You see, after a while the discussions shifted from the question of the elevator or the stairs to another more fundamental matter, namely, would the foundations really support any new structure at all?" "Well, if they supported the old one, why shouldn't they support the new one?" asked the small boy. "And, anyway, what about the view? Didn't anyone even want to risk trying to get up to see the view?" "The problem was," explained the uncle, "that the old structure had really become very rickety by this time. The group was finding that the stairs just wouldn't carry them up anymore. And the foundations, this was quite a problem. But perhaps more serious was another thing. You remember me telling you that in our Secular City we get rather inward looking--strange to say this way of thinking now began to affect the group. In the old days they had brought quite a new dimension 'to the city, but now somehow or another they became like the rest of the people around them in the city." The boy now looked very serious indeed. "They should have tried to keep contact with that view," he said his face had become very determined and set. "I don't think we should be too hard on them," replied his uncle; "it was a difficult problem to know how to renew those stairs." But even as he was saying this, at a deep level he shared his nephew's regret. "But what happened?" urged the small boy. "Did the commission ever come up with a solution?" In spite of his black looks of a moment ago, his innocence forced him to believe that there must be a solution. The old uncle tried to remember. "I just can't re-call," he said. "There used to be a lot of talk about the group but then people seemed to forget about them." It was getting late and they had to be going home, but the small boy wanted to take a closer look at the ruin. They walked over and both looked at one an-other in surprise. There seemed to be sounds coming from the basement--was someone working at the foundation? But, it was time to go. "I wonder what that view was really like?" mused the small boy, looking up at the great ruined tower. ÷ + ÷ VOLUME 29, !970 EUGENE C. AHNER, S.V.D. Toward a Renewed Life in Communi Eugene C. Ah-her, SN.D., is the dean of men at the S.V.D. Major Sem-inary; 4000 13th St.; Washington, D.C. 20017. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS There was a lawyer who to disconcert him stood up and said to him, "Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What do you read there?" He replied, "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your s~rength and with all your mind and your neighbor as yourself.' "You have answered right" said Jesus; "do this and lif.e is yours" (Lk 10:25-8). At this level we all find ourselves in agreement. The purpose of our lives, the goal of our struggle as human beings, as Christians, as priests or religious, is the love of God and neighbor. Here we all celebrate together and find ourselves in familiar company whether we are young or old, liberal or conservative, particularly pious or not. In fact, if we really pressed the issue we would find there are very few, if any, who are against love. After all, everyone wants love, truth, peace, brotherhood. However, as we go one step further and begin to ask what is real love anyway and how does one respond in the face of non-love, of hate, deception, and fear, the whole harmonious scene changes. What seems so simple and clear immediately becomes immensely complex and confused. Conflicting attitudes, opposing groups, and divergent ideas splinter in all directions. And we find ourselves in agreement with Qoheleth as he says: "I find that God made man simple; man's complex problems are of his own devising" (Eccl 7:29-30). The real problem, then, is not who wants love and truth and goodness, but how do we live in the face of evil. For, in each of us and in the world about us, there are not only the elements of life and growth but also the seeds of death and destruction. And while we may be quite sensitive to and indignant about the evil out-side of us, we are fearfully reluctant to look directly, clearly, and without dodging or panicking at the evil inside our own hearts. And yet, unless we are in touch with ourselves as we truly are and with our brother as he truly is, talk of love is futile. For the sad fact is that what then goes for love is rather an exercise in self-protection or self-aggrandizement at the expense of both myself and my brother. The gxeat task before each man, then, is really the human task. The fundamental point of religious life is common to all: to find oneself; to find one's brother; to find God. For, unless we are in touch with this funda-merit of reality we cannot walk the way of love. This discovery of our own true dimensions, tlie experience of our human situation, is a prelude to a life of love. And yet the one thing we attempt to avoid is knowing our-selves as we truly are--to enter into the wasteland of our own heart and discover there the dimensions of the sinner as well as the saint, the evil as well as the good, the love of death as well as the love of life. We are ca-pable of hate as we are of love, of anger as we are of af-fection, of the irrational as of the rational. No doubt the religious and monastic thing has always intended to bring a man in touch with himself as tie truly is--the long hours of aloneness, of fasting, of re-flection, of self-accusation, of spiritual direction. How-ever, there is no need to prove that the intended results have not kept pace with the practices and that, to the contrary, there are enough instances of these practices actually being used in such a way as to support and contribute to the dream world of self-deception and of the flight from the reality of oneself and one's neighbor. In fact, we might even wonder whether some of our more recent theologizing and liturgical celebration are not weakened by this very sort of glibness and superficial-ity with which it slides over the problem of evil and death. This can only lead to a kind of astonishment and perhaps eventual disillusionment when the repetition of the words love, community, hope, and life do not really seem to overcome hate, isolation, despair, and death be-cause they have never really met each other seriously and head-on. Each set of experiences is kept separate from the other because deep in our hearts we are not so very sure that love can really overcome fear and that truth is really stronger than pretense. The world of the kingdom, of truth, and of love is expressed and cele-brated loudly and clearly but in an uprooted and imag-inary world of its own. The world of sin and of death is kept apart, quiet and repressed deep inside the heart unknown even to the heart itself. Jeremiah says: "The heart is more devious than any other thing, perverse too; who can pierce its secret?" (Jer 17:9) And it is here in the unfathomable depths of the heart that the human ego keeps itself. + ÷ Toward Renewed VOLUME 29, 1970 365 ÷ ÷ ÷ E. ~. Abner, $.V.D. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 366 The difficulty of honestly facing our fear and the de-viousness of our own hearts has led us to many disguises and subterfuges to avoid the kind of confrontation that brings to light what is now in darkness. More by way of example than by exhaustive analysis, I would like to list three common ways we avoid the reality of who we are. Repression We are all acquainted with the small child who, in wanting to hide from someone, simply covers his own eyes. And so, not able to see the other, he feels well hid-den and secure. We smile at the naiveness of the child but what is innocent enough at that level becomes dev-astat! ng for adults who continue to deal with reality in this way. The easiest way of dealing with the unpleas-ant is to act as if it were not there. Somehow, by ig-noring it, it will go away. If our feelings run counter to what we are expected to feel, to think, or to do, the quickest way of dealing with the situation is to ignore or repress the feelings. If our feelings are so strong that we don't know what they might lead to, the safest thing is to repress them. Concretely, if I have sexual feelings or fantasies for someone of the same or opposite sex and for whatever reason feel that I shouldn't, I will tend to act as if they are not there. If I feel so angry inside that I am afraid that I will lose control and really hurt someone, I will try to play it safe and keep all feelings well under control. If I feel tender or affection-ate but consider such feelings unmanly, I will hide them. But the sad fact is that we cannot exercise such selec-tive repression. Before long we find that we do not know how we feel anymore and soon we discover that we no longer consciously feel anything at all. The price of re-pressing unwanted feelings is the numbing of all feelings. But deep inside there is a lump and we are depressed or forever anxious. And so we walk about like hollow peo-ple, not obviously angry or unkind but not able to love or feel deeply for anyone either. It becomes too dangerous to let go of any feeling because something else might come up that we cannot handle. But even that might not be too high a price to pay for external control. The fact is though that nothing is simply repressed without making itself felt somehow or somewhere--which brings us to our second ploy. Transference Everything that has made up our life leaves its mark and calls for its share of recognition. And if we are un-willing or unable to face the feelings that arise directly from the situation, we will have to face them in some other area that has no direct relation to the original feeling. Almost classic now is the understanding that masturbation, for example, is not simply a sexual prob-lem but a release of anger, frustration, feelings of in-adequacy and overdependency, that are not being met at the level where the issues really are. Another broad area of transference is the focus of all one's interests and energy on the great battle of evil out-side of ourselves. Especially today at a time of such far-reaching change and critical reevaluation there is no lack of evils to attack or causes to be advanced. All of which is fine and to be commended provided that it is not merely a front for avoiding the evil inside of our-selves. The real problem is that whatever evil exists around us also has basic roots and affinities inside of us. So, unless we have faced the evil within, our attempts to deal with it outside will be more a case of evil meet-ing evil, violence opposed to violence, lust opposed to lust, totalitarianism opposed to totalitarianism. And the end result will be ambiguity, hostility, restlessness, and the alienation of feeling. The present day religious community in transition is an excellent breeding ground for this kind of malaise. It becomes so much easier to fight the corruption in institutions and structures than in ourselves. And the sad fact is that there is so much that needs to be renewed but the one who is vigorously tear-ing down structures does not even realize that he is pri-marily fighting something in himself. Intellectualism This is an occupational hazard of any academic or student community. It is rooted in the realization that whatever can be understood can also be controlled. Therefore, if we intellectualize our whole life, our feel-ings and relationships as well, we can always be in con-trol. And as long as we maintain control, no one can get too dose to us, no one will be able to hurt us. manipulate persons and relationships, often unknow-ingly, in order to keep them at a distance and so pick and choose what is safe and what we can master. It means, of course, that all spontaneity must be censored and no feelings may overstep our present intellectual understanding. Feelings, then, become techniques to use "for effect." Relationships become calculations and the question becomes what should I feel rather than what do I feel. Life becomes a question of control, and lost are the directness and closeness of Christ: anger, fear, tears, and tenderness. And in the end, since the feelings have not been dealt with honestly, they will crop up in some often unsuspecting way and cry out for recognition. + + + Toward Renewed VOLUME 29, 1970 E. C. Abner, $.V.D. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 368 Perhaps it will be one person or one thing that will have to bear in an unreal and overdependent way our total emotional life. These are some of the more common ways we use to protect ourselves from others. But systematically and imperceptibly what we have hidden about ourselves from others also becomes hidden from ourselves. And so we find that we are not only strangers to others but finally also to ourselves. By middle-age most of us are accomplished fugitives not only from others but radi-cally from ourselves, thereby losing touch with the true source of life and renewal and motivation within us. What is it that drives us so far from ourselves and others? What subtle and all-pervasive element in our lives creeps into every aspect of it? What holds us in a closed and guarded defense rather than in an open and loving embrace? We are in fact face to face with fear-- our great fear that if we are known as we truly are we will not be lovable, will not be accepted, but rather that we will be taken advantage of, laughed at, hurt, or ignored. If others really knew that I am not only strong and capable but also weak and afraid, that I not only have desires of love and goodness but also of hate and destructiveness, would I still be loved and accepted or would I be crushed and rejected? I would venture to say that the great feeling of worthlessness so prevalent among people today is a direct result of their fear to be themselves. And we have reason to be afraid because to be our-selves means openness and vulnerability and honesty and confession of weakness. Revealing ourselves might destroy us. And if life is a little flicker between the darkness from which we have come and the darkness to which we will return, then we will do all that we can to grab it and. protect it. And so we proceed to build walls a~ound our weakness, to present only our strengths, to acknowledge only what is good and loving in us and we try to cover over what is weak and evil. We will be careful always to be in control and to have enough "pro-tection" between ourselves and others. And yet the fact is that only when we break through this hard shell can we be truly lovable. Only then can someone know who we are and love us. The very defenses we use not to get hurt are the walls that keep others out and make it ira-possible for another to really love us. And so we end up with the sad paradox that what we want most, to love and to be loved, is the thing we most thwart by our at-tempts to achieve it--through impressing others with being strong, trying to merit another's love by only re-vealing our "best" side. All this despite the experience we also share of actually feeling a greater love rather than less towards someone who may have revealed his own weakness to us. As John says so succinctly: "In love there can be no fear, but fear is driven out by perfect love: because to fear is to expect punishment, and any-one who is afraid is still imperfect in love" (1 Jn 4:18). So the very possibility of love depends on our willing-ness to face weakness and evil as it truly is--in ourselves and in our brother. Love does not solve the problem of evil by eliminating or avoiding it. That is impossible. To attempt a solution of evil by elimination is to believe that evil is only extraneous to man, that were it not for an evil society man could live in love and truth. In this view, evil would be successfully overcome if it could only be eliminated from the society in which man lives. It would be to act as if man were an angel who did not have deep within himself seeds of both good and evil. Rather, the only route open in the face of evil is to suff~r through evil without the loss, the capacity for love. In other words, evil must be transcended, not es-caped from or eliminated, and this cannot be achieved apart from the journey through the lust of one's own hell. So, finally, it is man himself and not evil which is redeemed. Evil, sin, and death will remain but they can be transcended provided that the individual face them in imagination and go beyond them in an act of love that restores the mystery of being and reveals the limit-lessness of man's freedom and responsibility. It is only by personally facing the depths of one's own despair, hate, violence, doubt, nothingness, aloneness that hope and love and redemption and faith are the victories that overcome, transcend the world. We do not face evil by simply committing it because this is in fact to sur-render to it. We do not face it by acting as if it were not a reality inside ourselves because this is mere,escapism to an unreal world which makes any real solution impossible. But rather, we must enter it through the imagination, risk the possibility of doing it, and with this necessary psychic distance, to transcend it. But as we consider these dynamics, are we not face to face with the religious thing, with the task of religious development in a community? A home wher~ I can search out my own heart, to discover the depths ~f the sinner and the saint, and to be accepted and erhbraced in a fraternity of sinners redeemed by Christ's 10ve. A group of persons with whom I can be myself, be open with-out deceit and not stand constantly under the sentence of being ridiculed, ignored, or taken advantage of. A place where the forgiving and creative form of love is operative and allows new possibilities of life to be re-vealed from sin and death. A zone of truth s~here evil will not be run from or ignored but faced ste,hdfastly with + + Toward Renewed Lile VOLUME 29, 1970 369 love. A community where there are honest men seeking for truth and love who are willing and able to accom-pany me in my journey. For this kind of atmosphere will allow an individual to take the fearful plunge and search the darkness of his own heart, to transcend the evil in his own life, and to face clearly the choice of lov.ing or hating, believing or doubting, being honest or hiding, hoping or despairing, living or dying. Is this not really what we should be about in our own life in community? The religious community is not a place to protect a person from himself, from reality, to escape or ignore evil, but rather to open him to the reality of himself and to reality in general. What re-newal has discovered is not a new commandment but the necessity of more penetrating and decisive ways of facing and knowing ourselves totally, good and evil. Only then can we really begin to walk the way of that first and all-inclusive command: "Love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself." 4- 4- E. ~. Ahnt~', $.V.D. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 370 ALAN AMBORN The Helpful,.Lifer It seems to be rather common opinion' that convicts who turn to God are nothing but hypocrites. Nothing could be farther /from the truth. You can read here what rel!gion really means to a prisoner. There are many people who seem to wqnder exactly what part religion can and does play in American prisons today. It is my opinion that it pla~s a very im-portant part, even though people may frequently say: "Isn't it all hypocrisy? Is a convicted felon ,really sincere when he turns to God only after he has b~en found in his crimes?" To that question we can posiibly have as many answers as there are men in prison. It may seem strange but it is nevertheless true that the people who ask such questions are us~ually people who have little, if any, firsthand information about prisons or prison inmates. What little info,rmatlon they have was obtained from reading the newspapers. Only too often such information is scanty and, at times, even misleading. , Suppose we begin with the assumption, that ninety-nine per cent of the men and women res.iding in the penitentiaries are guilty of the crimes for, which they have been sentenced. A large proportion 'of these are first offenders, many of whom have been committed to prison for crimes of omission, accident, or sheer stupid-ity rather than deliberate crimes of cupidity. Further-more, I would say that by far the majority of these are determined that they will never again come in conflict with the law once they have completed their sentences. The point I am trying to make is that among our prison inmates there are those who could possibly be classed as ogres, madmen, or depraved individuals, but they are in the minority. The greater part of our prisoners are peo-ple who have feelings, conscience, and a deep awareness of what they have done to their victims, their loved ones, and to themselves. In a prison, men and women who have been torn from their homes, wives, children, sweethearts, and + + + Alan Amborn 16376 can be writ-ten to at Box 900; Jefferson City, Mis-souri 65101. VOLUME 29, 1970 ÷ ÷ Alan Ambo~n REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS friends are forced to live an almost completely monastic life. Despite the many humane reforms in our modern penal systems, the average prisoner still undergoes the shock of isolation, the moral shame and degradation that follow his being sentenced. A first offender's initial few months is, generally, a period of shock, humiliation, despair, and above all, one of loneliness beyond descrip-tion. No one, not having experienced that first night when the cell door slams with such frightening finality and the lights go out, could be expected to understand the feel-ings that encompass the now totally miserable individ-ual. Along with the sense of loss come degradation and despair with a special kind of fear--spiritual and moral as well as physical. A person having experienced these feelings could never forget them. A person not having experienced them could never understand exactly what they were. Those first-night horrors can, and do, shake the most calloused lawbreaker to the very core of his being. Is it any wonder, then, that prisoners turn to what should have been their constant solace and comfort but, too often, is their last resort--their God and their Bible? It is the only answer and solution to a problem of pain that can drive the most hardened sophisticate mad. I speak from firsthand, if tragic, experience. I am an inmate of a Midwestern penitentiary. This is not my first prison. Yet, in each I have seen the word of God work wonders when everything else tried had failed. Any man or woman who is not completely amoral has some degree of sensitivity. Convicts are no exception. Even though the State, through legislation, charity, and necessity, provides for the prisoner in regards to his or her material and spiritual wants, there is always one factor that cannot be provided for, and that is the purely private and personal feelings of the individual. From unforgettable personal and bitter experience I know this common factor. Even though the warden of a prison were to offer a sympathetic ear to the inmate, the pris-oner's recent association with the police, the court, judge, and the jury, would have, consciously or uncon-sciously, erected a mental barrier that is, during the first months of imprisonment, not easily scaled. To the average prisoner who is experiencing his first imprison-ment, even the kindly ministrations and gestures of a chaplain, psychologist, or psychiatrist are often rejected and disregarded simply because the prisoner is not in a receptive mood or frame of mind. Very few convicts .are inclined to make officials of any stature their confidants. In the case of the new prisoner's family, the shock and shame emanating from their loved one's conviction and imprisonment is usually so great that they are at a com-plete loss as to what to do toward comforting or en-couraging their father, brother, or son. In a great ma-jority of the cases I have personally observed, the family procrastinates; they do nothing, waiting for the impris-oned man to make the initial move. Any conscientious prison official can tell you how inadvisable this attitude is. It is the usual procedure or custom in most prisons to have the new inmate or "fish" go through a thirty day period of isolation. There are two reasons for this pro-cedure: a hygienic check-up first, and then the period in which the authorities observe the conduct and attitude of the man. The officials, for security purposes, must know the moods, manners, and intentions of their new charges. Is the "fish" mentally or physically sick? Is he antagonistic or dangerous? Will he harm himself or some inmate in his anger and frustration? This period of isolation is by far the worst part of imprisonment for any convict, but especially so for the prison novice. This is the danger point for the emotion-ally distraught and the mentally unbalanced; this is the period where the man, all alone, must separate himself from the world of the living he has "always known, and accept and adjust himself to the frightening new world of the living dead. It can very well be the ebb tide of his life. This is the time when, no matter if he has been lax in his practice of religion, an agnostic or even an atheist, he will, he must, within himself turn to God. He must if he is to survive. For be he Christian or Jew, Muslim or Buddhist, young man or old, every fibre of his body, mind, and spirit will search for someone or something to turn to--someone who is understanding and who will show forgiveness without reservations. And it is inevita-ble that sooner or later he must come to realize that the someone or something that fills all his desperately needed requirements is the Someone who has always been standing by to forgive, forget, and accept. Happy indeed is the individual who brings a Bible to prison with him. Very few prisons provide a newcomer with this precious and cherished book. Many times I have overheard convicts state their desire and need for a Bible. In some prisons the chaplains provide these holy texts out of their own pockets. To my knowledge and experience, though, no American prison voluntarily supplies them to their inmate population. I assume that the reason for this seemingly official attitude is felt to be in keeping with our inherent American principle of freedom of religion, or in this instance, freedom from religion. + ÷ ÷ TI~ l:leIplul Liter VOLUME 29, ~.970 4, 4, Alan Ambo~n REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS :374 Again drawing from personal experience, I know just how fertile a field for converts prisons are. Much has been written about our jails and prisons being breeding places for more crime, moral deterioration, and physical perversion. This, too often, is the case. Men who are lonely, devoid of hope, ambition, and initiative are easily led. The professional criminal and perennial jailbird are too often the leaders. These emotional and moral misfits know only one path to take. If a man can-not find the comfort and solace he desperately needs in this crisis of his life from friends and family, he will seek these two important factors in one of two places: with his equally despondent, lonesome, and lost fellow-convicts, or in his God. And there are infinitely more convicts in prisons than there are messengers of the Lord. Peace of mind and acceptance of God's will are even more important in an imprisoned man's life than it is in a free man's. For, having broken both God's as well as man's laws, the prisoner is usually weighted down with a double sense of guilt and remorse. And many times I have seen the moral and spiritual rebirth of an individ-ual brought about by his reintroduction to his Maker through the Bible. I was born of God-loving Roman Catholic parents. In our home, belief and respect for God were made part of our daily lives. Furthermore, He was a most essential part. I was sent to parochial and higher schools and, as a result, was well versed in the fundamentals of my faith. It was only after I stupidly and callously began to disregard the teachings and tenets of my faith that I began to ruin my life, and even worse, the lives of those who loved, believed, and trusted me. That, to me, is the greatest tragedy of the man in prison--those he left on the outside. Like so many of my ilk, stewing in bitterness and shame, I gave little thought to God during my first years of imprisonment, particularly after I was no longer a "fish." I turned completely deaf ears to the overtures of the prison chaplain and to well-intentioned state of-ficials. My attitude was one of "these state officials put me in here and now they are trying to persuade me that they want to help me; how stupid do they think I am?" That's a question I often ask myself these days. I know now how stupid this line of destructive thinking is, but I didn't in those earlier days. I know, too, that this is the line of thought that most new inmates take. Out of sheer boredom and because it afforded me an opportunity to get out of my cell for an hour, I attended a few church services. But if I actually thought of God at all, it was to blame Him for having failed me--never my having failed Him. That should give you an idea of how stupid a man in prison can be. That old clichd of "misery loves company" really gets a workout in prison. I recall vividly some of the discussions I had with fellow-convicts during my first days in the "joint." Few, if any, were ever in a construc-tive vein. They were almost always filled with bitterness and recriminations; not directed at ourselves where they rightfully belonged, but at our captors, our wardens, and even at our families and friends. As for me, per-sonally, I was the epitome of bitterness, frustration, and hopelessness. Through my own stupidity and cupidity I had lost my family and friends (so I thought at the time), and instead of doing anything constructive about regaining these lost loved ones, I submerged myself in a sea of self-pity in which I almost drowned. I was simply over-flowing with moral indifference, false pride, and per-verted thinking. I was fast approaching a point of no return. That is the point in a man's life when one more foolish or careless mistake can completely and irrevoca-bly preclude any possibility of his again becoming a use-ful, acceptable part of the human race. Then, I met a convict named Alex. One day during a recreational period in the yard, an inmate I didn't know came up to me. Though I had never spoken to this convict, I knew about him. I had first noticed him through a peculiar habit he had. I should clarify that by stating that this habit was pecu-liar in prison; he carried a book under his arm wherever he went. Upon asking some of the other inmates about this, I was told that he was a "lifer" who had already served twenty years, who had little or no hope of a pardon or parole, and that he was a religious fanatic. In prison, the term "religious fanatic" has a wide meaning, ranging from a man who goes to church services once a year to a man who attends services regularly. Another thing that set this inmate in a separate category with his fellow-convicts was that he was a "loner." A "loner" in prison jargon is a convict who stays strictly to himself, has no friends or close associates, and never participates in any prison activities. Even the prison officials look askance at this type of a convict and pay particular at-tention to his every move. For "loners" are the ones who most frequently crack mentally or emotionally. This prisoner I am writing of was in his early fifties, of a serious demeanor, short and on the heavy side, and whose face, though handsome, was lined with suffering. His eyes indicated character and depth. The moment he spoke to me I knew he was well educated. He was courteous and had an air of quiet dignity about him, 4. 4. 4. VOLUME 2% 1970 375 + 4. Alan Ambovn REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS and I immediately sensed an aura of well-being and contented resignation emanating from him. He wasted no time on social discourse. His opening words were: "Alan, I understand you are a Catholic." As he saw the look of complete bewilderment on my face, he continued: "Father Jerome told me that you had been educated in Catholic schools and that you might be able to help me with my catechism. You see, I am a convert and I'm hoping to be baptized in the near future." I was too amazed to answer him. The first thought that went through my head was that this was a gag of some sort, perpetrated by the fellows I had been hanging around with. Noticing my hesitancy and seeming to read my mind, he went on: "I'm really serious about this, Alan, and though I haven't much, I'd be willing to pay you for your trouble." Something in his manner told me that he was in earnest, but I still hesitated. Finally, I asked him: "How come you and Father Jerome picked on me? I haven't been to Mass since coming here and, as a matter of fact, I have not even been inside a church in over two years." "We never discussed that," he replied. Then he con-tinued: "All we talked about was your school back-ground. Alan, there are a lot of fellows getting instruc-tions and Father, with all his other work, is getting snowed under. When I asked if there were any Catholic men here that might help me, your name came up. As I'm sure you know, each Catholic convert needs a baptismal sponsor. I have no family or friends, so I thought that you might." His voice trailed off, as if in embarrassment, and he waited to see what I would say. When I didn't answer, he said: "I swear to you that there was nothing put on or planned about my asking you this. Your name was alphabetically first and that is how I chose you. Father even warned me that you would not be very receptive to the idea, but I thought otherwise. I guess I was mis-taken. If you'd rather not do it, that's okay, too." He started to walk away. I perhaps will never know just what made me stop him, but stop him I did. It probably was the wisest decision I ever made: "If Father Jerome and you think I am qualified to help you, it's all right with me. Forget that talk about paying me. Remember this, though, it has been a long time since I've seen a catechism book or even discussed religion. You might very well know more about the subject than I do. If you really feel that I can be of some assistance, it's a deal." To this day I don't know what Father Jermone's mo- tives were in sending Alex to me. I honestly can't say whether he had a motive or not; but whatever the case, it helped the two of us. Alex was baptized and I re-turned to my lost faith. As I told Alex, I was very rusty on my catechism and had to do a lot of research. Alex's knowledge of the Bible was far superior to mine; and though, at first, he was kind enough to pretend that this was not the case, it wasn't long before I was the student and Alex was the tutor. His tremendous grasp of both the New and Old Tes-taments was amazing. He could quote verbatim lengthy passages from both texts and never in a parrot-like man-ner. He had a profound understanding of its parables and lessons. No matter what subject or problem we might be discussing, he could find a parallel in the Holy Book, and no matter how bleak a person's outlook on life might be, Alex's Biblical parallels always seemed to offer comfort and hope to the individual. Though I don't believe he ever realized it, Alex was a salesman for the Lord; and he was a good one. The one thing that impressed me and everyone who knew him was his obvious sincerity and his calm acceptance of a fate that was, by all standards, unenviable. As I mentioned previously, he was serving a life sentence with little or no hope of pardon. The fact that this out-wardly didn't raze him and his seemingly calm accept-ance of spending the rest of his life behind bars natu-rally puzzled me. I told him so on one occasion. He explained that when he had first arrived at the prison he had been bitter and lost. Due to his behavior pattern, he had spent forty-nine months of the first five years of his sentence in solitary confinement. It was during one of these sessions of enforced solitude that Alex was given a Bible. Sheer boredom and the lack of anything else to read led to his initial interest in the Book. He honestly admitted that this interest was fostered by a human desire to do something--anything--to help pass the endless hours he was forced to spend alone. Alex had never spoken of the crime that had put him in prison; and I, in keeping with prison custom, had never asked him. However, it was common "yard" gossip that it was murder. Alex told me that his behavior problem came from his overactive conscience and his inability to forget what he had done. He was in a position that thousands of convicts find themselves in. For though soc!ety had in-dicted, convicted, and punished him, and then legally forgotten him by reason of more notorious and head-lined crimes, Alex himself could not forget nor forgive ÷ + + VOLUME 29, 1970 4. ÷ Alan Amborn REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 378 what he had done. His misbehavior and antagonistic attitude was a masochistic drive to punish himself. One day while going through the Bible in his solitary cell, he came across the story of Mary Magdalene. It fascinated him. Here was someone who had been steeped in sin like he was and who had asked for and had been given mercy and forgiveness. He went on with his reading, this time deeply impressed and eager. When he came to the story of the crucifixion, he was spell-bound. The agony and torture that Jesus went through wrung his heart. He told me that for the first time in his adult life, he wept. When he came to the climax of the great tragedy, the scene in which Christ, suffering unto death, took time out from His final agonies to forgive His murderers and the Good Thief hanging beside Him, Alex said a wave of understanding and peace descended on him. He said that he had gotten down on his knees to pray, and that while doing so he suddenly and finally knew that he had someone to turn to. Someone who would understand and forgive and who would give him a chance to atone for his sins and his crimes. This knowledge was what permitted Alex to accept his fate and lot so calmly. Through Alex and his application of the Bible in his daily life, I came to know and realize that many of our everyday seemingly insoluble problems have answers that can be found in the Holy Book. The trials and tribulations of our daily lives seem minute in compari-son to what the people of Biblical times faced. I believe that anyone possessed of an inherent sense of honesty detests hypocrisy. Convicts are no different. Any prison chaplain is constantly bombarded with this hackneyed excuse: "Padre, I didn't go to church on the outside, why should I be a hypocrite and start going now?" It's true, the words may differ on occasion, but the philosophy never changes. In many ways this atti-tude could be interpreted as an admirable quality in a man if it were not, in the case of the convict, such a stupid and senseless one. Anyone taking the time to look through the Bible can find any number of instances where even the most devoted and revered of God's saints were at one time in their lives steeped in sin and wickedness. Some, such as St. Paul, were even violently opposed to the teachings of Christ, God's beloved Son. From persecutor of the members of Christ's Church to a pillar of that Church is certainly a complete turn about in policy and belief. In other words, St. Paul was certainly no hypocrite. As Alex often pointed out to me, if the Lord could forgive and accept into His heavenly kingdom the murderer and thief hanging on the adjoining cross to Him; if He could forgive and accept into His earthly entourage Mary Magdalene, a woman who was a con-fessed harlot; if He, in His infinite mercy and in His dying agonies could even forgive His murderers, why, then, surely it should not be beyond belief and compre-hension that He could and does accept a modern-day sinner. His Bible constantly reminds us that eternal salvation is ours for the asking. Remember His very words, "Ask and you shall receive." I honestly believe that convicts might ask more often if they had Someone to show or to tell them how. To-day's prisons certainly offer a. fertile field for present-day missionaries. For just as the man or woman dying of pneumonia or a similar infectious disease needs the shot of penicillin more that the ,healthy man does, so does the acknowledged and convicted sinner need the word of God and the comfort and solace that word gives us all. And should any skeptic question the worth of these ¯ sinners and the redeeming of them, I humbly suggest that he read the Parable of the Prodigal Son. + + + VOLUME 29, ~.970 379 FREDERICK A. BENNETT What Makes a Happy (or Unhappy) Nun? Fr. Frederick A. Bennett is intern-ing in clinical psy-chology and lives at St. Therese Rec-tory; 1243 Kingston; Aurora, Colorado 80010. REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS Innumerable books and articles have been written about nuns during the past few years. Yet very little empirical evidence has been brought forth supporting the contentions of the authors. Thousands of nuns have left their communities yet there is a dearth of scientific findings either explaining why these nuns have left or probing the present feelings of those remaining. This study was an attempt to provide a few basic facts relating to psychological factors, particularly happiness, as found today among American nuns. 950 sisters, chosen at random from an original mail-ing list of 35,000 individuals from 91 different active communities across the United States, were mailed a questionnaire in March of 1969. The form used had been tested on a pilot study in late 1968, had under-gone some revision due to findings on that pilot study, and was composed of 54 questions in its final form. Novices and postulants were deliberately excluded. Su-periors, when they could be identified, were replaced by non-superiors in the same convent. The nuns in-volved were guaranteed anonymity both for themselves and for their communities, were told that the results would be made available at least to people in a position to act on the findings, and were then asked for their cooperation. The hoped for cooperation was magnificent. One follow-up letter was mailed and at the conclusion, 853 sisters had returned their questionnaires. This totaled 88% of all possible respondents. The average age of those replying was 4'~ years. The results give a broad cross section of thinking and feelings of pro-fessed American nuns in non-leadership positions. An obvious caution is warranted, however, before considering some of the results. The findings cannot be applied to any individual sister. For example, age is found to correlate highly with happiness. It is dear, however, that this is a generalization. There are happy and unhappy nuns at every age level. But for those who are concerned about th~ future direction of religious life and what must be done on a broad scale to give it the greatest chance of surviving and growing, such generalizations can be of great value. This project falls into a category of psychological studies measuring "avowed happiness" or the happi-ness which a subject claims for himself. Such studies have a long history dating back at least until the 1920s. Recently, however, more extensive work in this area has been carried out through several centers of investigation. Two of the more notable undertakings were those carried out by Gurin and his associates in 19571 and by Bradburn and Caplovitz in 1962.2 The latter concentrated on four small towns in Illinois, two of which were economically depressed, and thus they have a dearly biased sample. Gurin, however, used a nationwide sample of 2460 people "selected by methods of probability sampling to represent all American adults over 21 years of age living in private house-holds." Gurin and associates, Bradburn and Caplovitz, and the present study all asked respondents to note what they considered to be their present level of happiness on a tripartite scale using the classifications of "Very happy," "Pretty happy," or "Not too happy." Despite the simi-larity of responses, however, the results are not ex-actly comparable because of other differences. For example, the replies from the sisters were obtained by mailed questionnaires while the other two projects used personal interviews. Nonetheless, curiosity at least, calls for a comparison of the results of the three studies. Bradburn and Caplovitz (women only) Gurin and associates (women only) Nuns Very happy 23% IPretty happy 60% 50% Not too happy 17% = 100% 12%--- 100% 13% = 100% A comparison of the replies of the subjects of Brad- + burn and Caplovitz in the four small Illinois towns ÷ with the answers of the sisters shows the religious to have both a higher percentage making "Very happy" XG. Gurin, J. Veroff, and S. Feld, Americans View Their Mental Happy Nun? Hea¯lth (New York: Basic Books, 1960). VOLUME 29, 1970 2 N. Bradburn and D. Caplovitz, Reports on Happiness: A Pilot Study o/ Behavior Related to Mental Health (Chicago: Aldine, 1965). 381 replies and a lower percentage giving "Not too happy" responses. As was mentioned above, however, by re-stricting their sample to the four small towns, the atuhors also assured themselves of a biased sample. When the replies of the sisters are compared with the subjects in Gurin's nationwide sample, there is vir-tually no difference in the total responses of the two groups. But a very important difference is found when replies are analyzed by age of respondent. A comparison with Gurin's work by age group shows the following: Gurin (all subjects) Nuns Percentage giving "Very happy" responses Under 35 35-44 45-54 55 and over 40% a~% a4% 27% 31% 31% 36°/o 39°/o ÷ ÷ F. A. Bennett REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 382 Gurin (all subjects) Nurl8 Percentage Under 35 giving "Not too happy" responses 35-44 45-54 55 and over 10% 13% 18% 15% ~4% 9% Thus as those who live outside of the convents grow older they show a gradual decrement in "Very happy" responses and an increase of "Not too happy" replies. But for the nuns the trend is in the opposite direction. The nuns who are older tend to have a greater per-centage of their members answering in the "Very happy" category than do younger nuns. Likewise, these older sisters have fewer making "Not too happy" re-sponses. The youngest nuns while claiming less happi-ness than the older nuns also avow less happiness than their age counterparts outside of religious life. One immediate reason that might be advanced for the trend toward greater happiness with advancing age among nuns is that less satisfied members of communi-ties have tended to leave and the more satisfied have tended to remain with the passage of years in religion. This does not seem, however, to account for all of the differences since nuns in the older groups today have lived most of their religious lives in a period when leaving the convent after profession was often the exceptional case. Moreover, the younger groups have already suffered a severe depletion of their ranks and yet the ones who remain are much less happy than those in the older groups. A factor that is considered to contribute to the lessened happiness in older people outside of convents is the loneliness that comes to elderly people through loss of a spouse or breakup of the family. The nuns do not have the problem of widowhood and remain with their communities regardless of their age, This may explain, at least partially, why the older nuns claim greater happiness than older non-nuns. It does not ex-plain, however, the differences between older and younger sisters since both seem to have the same op-portunities to avoid loneliness. But since the degree of loneliness is an important factor in the lives of many, and perhaps most people, a question in the present study was directed toward the investigation of their relative loneliness. The question was phrased as follows: How frequently do you feel lonely? Often __Occasionally __Seldom __Never An analysis of replies to this question uncovered a significant negative correlation between loneliness and the basic question of happiness. Actually, the correla-tion of happiness with loneliness was greater than the correlation of happiness with any other element of the nun's life that was tapped in this study. The basic cor-relation between the two was --.50 which could be expected far less than once in a thousand times simply on the basis of chance alone. The meaning of this correlation is that those who tend to report more frequent instances of loneliness also tend to claim sig-nificantly less happiness for themselves. The question must arise in every correlation as to which is the cause and which is the effect. Thus in the present case, does the loneliness cause the unhappiness, or do those who are unhappy tend to be lonely because they are unhappy? Or is some third factor causing both the loneliness and the unhappiness? Although the ques-tion is insoluble at the present time, one of the sugges-tions that will be made later in this article is based on the premise that loneliness is causing some of the unhappiness and that a major point of concentration should be that of overcoming loneliness. Other significant correlates of happiness were also found. In advance it was hypothesized that three ele-ments would figure prominently in the overall 'happi-ness of nuns. These three can be summarized as inter-personal relations, job satisfaction, and leadership. All were found to be significantly correlated with happiness. Loneliness was considered as pertaining 'to inter-personal relations. But there were also other questions + + + What Makes a Happy Nun? VOLUME 29, 1970 383 pertaining to interpersonal relations that showed a high correlation with happiness. For example, one of the questions asked: Do you feel that the majority of sisters with whom you live really are interested in you as a person? ._____Definitely ___.Probably ~robably not Those who are happier tend to say that they feel that other members of the convent are interested in them as a person and those who are less happy take a dimmer view of the interest of others. In job satisfaction, another highly significant correla-tion with happiness (.34, p. < .001) was found. Those who said they found their job more satisfying also tended to be happier. Leadership was also significantly correlated (.34, p < .001) with happiness. The more favorably the sister rated her superior, the happier she was likely to be. The immediate conclusion is that interpersonal re-lations, job satisfaction, and evaluation of leadership are all significantly related to happiness. But it is most interesting that of the three, leadership and job sati~- faction are less important than interpersonal relation-ships. This is especially worthy of consideration because so much more effort at renewal in many communities seems to be directed toward improving job satisfaction and changing leadership patterns rather than toward improvirig interpersonal relations among the nuns themselves. + ÷ ÷ F. A. Bennett REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS Leadership An example of leadership modifications is found in communities that have eliminated the local superior. The opportunity to investigate the benefits of this change in leadership role was available in this study since 123 sisters said that they were living in a convent in which there was no local superior. In examining these figures, however, it should be remembered that not having a superior allows for a diversity of ways of being carried out in practice; and no attempt was made to define more exactly what each of the 123 nuns meant when she said that she had no local superior. But taking all those without a superior as one group, no significant difference in happiness was found be-tween those having a superior and those not having one. There was actually a slight tendency for those with a superior to claim greater happiness than those without a superior but this may have been merely a chance happening that would be reversed on another sample. The following are the percentage of responses in both groups: Have a superior Do not have a superior Very happy Pretty happy Not too happy 37% 49% 14%-- 100% 32% ~4% ~4% = ioo% Therefore it appears that simply not having a superior does not necessarily improve chances for happiness among members of the community. Sisters who had a local superior were asked to rate their superior in the following question: How do you evaluate the job of leadership being done by your present local superior? __.Excellent ~_Fair ~.Poor __.Very poor An interesting comparison appears when those who do not have a superior are matched with those rating their superior either high or low. Sisters rating superior good/excellent Sisters rating superior poor/very poor No superior Very happy ~6% 23% 32% Pretty happy 46% Not too happy 8% = 1oo% 33% := 100% i4% = 100% Thus being without a local superior is not as favor-able as having a good superior but is preferable to hav-ing a superior whom the subject feels is doing a poor job. Another area that is of importance today in the question of leadership is that some local communities are able to choose their superior in contrast to the former policy of having all superiors appointed either by the major superior or by vote of the chapter. In this study 82 nuns said that they had been allowed to select their own superior. For this group the following percentages were found: Very happy Pretty happy Not too happy Chose their own 50% 40% 10% = 100% superior ÷ ÷ 4. What Malws a These figures indicate that being able to elect a VOLO~E mo ~gro superior is a very desirable arrangement. Gomparing $85 these figures with those given above for sisters rating their superior as good or excellent, the groups are very similar in their avowals of happiness. Consequently it seems preferable to elect a superior rather than to eliminate her altogether. Election is also, of course, far preferable to having a poor superior imposed from above. + + F. A. Bennett REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 386 Departures Sisters have been leaving in substantial numbers dur-ing recent years. To determine the unrest that still re-mains in the convents the following question was asked: During the past six months, which of the following would describe feelings or thoughts you have had about leaving religious life? (60%) I have not considered leaving (23%) I have considered leaving but not seriously (10%) I have seriously considered leaving but have de-cided against it (5%) I have seriously considered leaving and may do so (2%) I will probably leave 100% (The percentage of sisters responding in each way is noted in parentheses before each response.) Although the majority of nuns have not considered leaving during the past six months, a substantial minor-ity of 40% have at least had the idea of leaving enter their minds during that period. Moreover, 17% have seriously considered such a possibility. Thus, although only 7% were still seriously considering leaving when this study was conducted, there is a large group that is somewhat shaky and it is not unlikely that many of this group will again have the idea of departing enter their minds. In addition those who do actually leave will probably intensify thoughts of leaving in others and may induce such thoughts in some of those who have not considered it. It appears, therefore, under this inter-pretation of the figures that the exodus from convents is far from completed unless very drastic changes come about in the thinking of present members. When thoughts of leaving are analyzed by age of respondent, very important differences are again noted. The percentages in each age group are on p. 387. As would be expected, the younger groups are much more likely to be thinking of leaving than are the older nuns. But the extent of the differences between the groups is rather surprising. It is especially important that 73% of the youngest group has considered leaving and 40% have seriously considered it. Thus those who will be leaving will usually be the ones who formerly would be carrying the hopes for religious life in the Have not considered leaving Considered but not seri-ously Seriously considered leav-ing May leave Probably will leave Under 28 ] 27% 33% 10% 100% 28-34 43% 15% 7% lOO% 35-44 57% 25% 8% 8% 2% 100% 4~-55 66% 5% 100% Over 55 89% 4% 0% 0% 1oo% future. A further comment on the ramifications of this will be made later in this article. Other Findings Religious life is directed in large measure toward supernatural and eternal goals. The question arises whether remaining in religious life is dependent on present happiness. There was another highly significant correlation of .47 between happiness and the tendency to remain. This strongly suggests that they are related. Regardless, therefore, of how religious life may have been viewed by spiritual writers in the past, in today's convents present happiness is of importance. The nuns who are less happy are generally the ones who are doing the most thinking about leaving. Religious life cannot be divorced from the spiritual activities of the sisters. But in trying to analyze the influence of spirituality, many very obvious and perhaps insoluble problems arise. Because of these difficulties a very simple question was asked. This question did not attempt to assess the influence that the spirituaI ac-tivities have. It merely inquired about the satisfac-tion that the sister receives. The question was phrased in this manner: How would you describe your usual feelings about the daily spiritual exercises that you are expected to perform? __.I find them very satisfying .I find them somewhat satisfying __.I get little human satisfaction from them Another significant correlation was found with hap-piness. Those who are happier tend to receive greater ÷ satisfaction from their spiritual exercises. But here ÷ especially, the relationship of cause and effect is blurred. ÷ Such a finding could signify that because the sisters are What Makes a happier they thereby tend to be more satisfied with Happy Nun? their spirituality. But it could also signify that because the sister receives greater satisfaction from her formal VOLUME 29, 1970 praying, she thereby tends to be happier. Or again, a 387 ÷ ÷ ÷ F. A. Bennett REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS ~388 third and unknown factor may well be present which is influencing both happiness and satisfaction from spirit-ual exercises. Much research iri past years in social psychology has been devoted to the ideal size of various types of groups. Generally, the best size is found to be less than 12. It was therefore somewhat surprising to find that the number of people residing in the convent in which the sister lives had little effect on her happiness. There were similar reports of happy and unhappy sisters in all sizes of convents. Size was related, however, to some other aspects of the sisters' lives. For example, signifi-cantly more indications of jealousy were found in the largest convents. Conclusions Religious life as we know it seems to be headed for more rough days ahead. Unrest among the nuns is far from terminated. With 40% of the sisters saying that they have at least considered the possibility of leaving their communities within the previous six months, ~many more departures can be anticipated. Moreover, the thoughts of leaving are heavily con-centrated among the younger age groups. When this factor is combined with the importance of interpersonal relationships among the nuns, another disturbing pre-dicament becomes apparent. The younger members are tending to leave more rapidly than the older; if this trend continues, the average age of members of the communities will advance. New young members enter-ing the community in the future will find it all the more difficult to find convents when they go on mission that are staffed by nuns of their own age. A consequence would seem to be that these young nuns of the future will have even greater difficulty in establishing close relationships with other nuns and therefore the chances for loneliness will increase. It is certainly possible and often happens that a young nun finds companionship and meaningful re-lationships with older nuns. But it is more likely for the young nun to find that necessary companionship among nuns of her own age level. Again, this study was not related only to individuals as such, many of whom will go contrary to the findings of this work. Rather the concern was with the overall conditions of religious life. Here it can be said that as the average age of sisters increases, a larger proportion of young nuns will likely find it increasingly difficult to overcome the loneliness that is probably causing some present problems. A personal anecdote may be appropriate here. I re- cently had contact with a large community of contem-plative nuns in which the youngest member had already celebrated her silver jubilee in the community. This convent had not been able to retain the few novices or postulants that had been with them in recent years. Moreover, it would seem to me to be a minor miracle if any young women could be found to enter and re-main in a convent where they would have to bear with such a wide disparity of age. Fortunately such cases are not common today; but unless solutions can be found, it seems likely that other communities, both active and contemplative, may experience somewhat similar difficulties in the coming decades. Further evidence for the stumbling blocks that wide age discrepancies can pose for religious life comes from one of the open-ended questions that were included in the questionnaire. The nuns were asked what they found to be the least satisfying or most discouraging aspect of their life as a religious. The differences be-tween the age groups were striking. For example, a 59 year old nun answered: "The frustration with some younger members." A 30 year old sister said: "Judgmental attitudes of older sisters toward myself." A 73 year old sister pinpointed the age gap saying: "The lack of close communication between the much older sister and the New Modern Sister." Perhaps the split between the generations was most apparent in the attitudes toward change. Frequently the older nuns were most disturbed by what seemed to them to be excesses and the younger were distressed by what they considered to be the hesitancy of some members to change. This was not universal, however, as a few of the older came out with high praise" for the changes but these latter were the exceptions. In general, the generation gap was clear. But as important as age is in laying a foundation for compatibility among sisters, similar age does not insure good interpersonal relations. There are other elements involved in coming to an understanding and meaning-ful relationship with another person or persons. Many psychological, intellectual, and emotional factors are involved. Outside of religious life, freedom of the in-dividuals to choose the companions they wish to have takes account of some of these factors. Freedom to choose one's own companions has never been considered feasible in religious life until very re-cently when it has been tried in a few communities. There was no opportunity in this study to test the value of such a procedure. But an indication of the possible advantages of this arrangement may be inferred fi:om the decided advantage noted of being able to select What ~l~l~e~ a Happy Nun? VOLUME 2% 1970 389 ÷ ÷ F. A. Bennett REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 390 one's own superior. This latter also was not considered feasible until very recent years. With all of the inherent problems involved in being able to select the ones that the sister wishes to live and work with, further con-sideration of such a possibility seems warranted. Additional training in the development of interper-sonal relationships during the novitiate and juniorate may also prove advantageous. Some communities have used sensitivity training and T-groups for this purpose. Unfortunately, there is again no empirical evidence to base a sound judgment upon as to the advantages of such training. But in view of the problems connected with interpersonal relationships within the convents, such training merits consideration and research. Decreasing loneliness among the sisters is not solely dependent upon interpersonal relationships within the convent itself. Nonetheless, community life should be a basic bulwark against loneliness. As of now, however, community life is sometimes [ailing to accomplish this. The findings of this study, however, were not com-pletely negative. There was strong evidence that loneli-ness is not an inherent part of religious life. Not a few of the nuns recounted their experiences in having deep friendships with other sisters as one of the great plus values of religious life. In response to the question: "What do you consider the most satisfying aspect of your life as a religious?" a 34 year old sister replied: "The sisters I live with at the present time." A 64 year old sister replied to the same question saying succinctly: "The sisters." "Community living; the spirit of our com-munity (friendliness and joy)," was the response of a 28 year old nurse. A 39 year old teacher answered that it was "living with sisters who are interested in me as a person," while a 53 year old sister cited "the possibility [or personal fulfillment found in community living" as the most satisfying part of her religious life. It is obvious from these responses that loneliness does not have to accompany religious life. But it has also been shown above that community life does not insure that loneliness will not be present. In summation it can be said that new approaches to interpersonal relationships are needed. The gravity of this need is brought into focus by the distinct possibility that the whole question could become academic. With 70% of the youngest group already considering leav-ing the trend could conceivably be against the continued existence of present type congregations. Reversal of such a trend is not impossible but will take much concen-trated effort. LOUIS TOMAINO The Sister as an Agent oJ.Change As Warren Bennis and his colleagues have suggested, radical change is the one constant which seems to char-acterize this age.1 It seems clear that change is occurring in both the church and in religious orders of women. Sisters are all too familiar with problems of change for they are confronted with the problem of trying to bring about meaningful change in their congregations. They have the task of sorting out planned change from ac-cidental change so that only the more constructive as-pects of the process may be realized and the sisters helped to find more satisfying levels of community existence. Change in this instance may be the basic con-dition for the freedom without which religious life might well become increasingly difficult and unreward-ing; yet, from the standpoint of short range needs, it is often more comfortable for individual sisters not to change. The reluctance of an individual to give up old ways of doing things is understandable when one con-siders the meanings change may have for those who face it. : Out of the many things which could be said about sisters and change, we have selected the idea that sister is an "agent of change" in her own community. If this is true, it might also be added that, in general, she plays the same role in the Church itself and in her apostolate. In the past two years, we have held group dynamics workshops with over 1000 sisters from various congrega-tions during which time we have stressed the change agent concept. In their case, the issue no longer seems to be whether change should occur, but rather, what change is to be encouraged and how might it be facili-tated? This paper reports on some things which char-acterize sisters and change. 1 Warren G. Bennis, Kenneth D. Benne, and Robert Chin, The Planning of Change (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1962). Louis Tomaino is the acting direc-tor of Worden School of Social Services; Our Lady of the Lake College; San Antonio, Texas 782O7. VOLUME 29, 1970 391 Robert Blake and Jane Mouton, two inventive be-havioral scientists, conceptualized a model called the managerial gridS which unified their lengthy study of management and organizational structures. This model proved highly successful in understanding the manage° rial process and helped .develop new techniques in management. Jay Hall and Martha Williams, social psychologists at the Southwest Center for Law and the Behavioral Sciences and former students of Blake and Mouton, utilized the grid concept with an instrument called the change grid. This grid was extremely valuable in workshops with the 1000 sisters. Sisters who are interested in meaningful community change might be expected to have some concerns about the quality of the change. These concerns provide the basic grid dimensions and are expressive of the sisters' thoughts. These are the concern for conformity (that members adhere to community norms) and the concern for commitment (that members truly internalize com-munity norms). Put another way, this says that sisters should comply with what the community expects but do so because they really accept and value those expectations. These dual concerns will affect the kind of change strategies a sister would utilize in her community. The two concerns are thought of as being independ-ent of each other. The sister may fuse them in some way in her relations with other community members but the concerns appear thusly in the beginning: C 0 M MITME NT (The complete grid appears on the following page) Loui~ 2"omai.o REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS CONFORMITY Different sisters impute varying strengths to these con-cerns. Those who perceive themselves as "traditional-ists" may exhibit more conformity interests, while those who view themselves as "progressives" might prefer commitment concerns in their approaches to change. So ~ Robert Blake and Jane Mouton, The Managerial Grid (Hous-ton: Gulf Publishing Co., 1964). that we might consider "how much" concern sisters manifest, each axis is scaled from 1 to 9. The value 1 will mean "low concern for" while the unit 9 will de-note "high concern for." Three methods of securing change assume that the concerns for conformity and commitment are in con-flict-- that communities cannot hope to insure both ends and must thereby choose one over the other. These methods (reading grid fashion, fight and up) are the 9/1, 1/9, and I/1 approaches. High THE CHANGE GRID ~/9 Ptrson-~Tentsred Clu~ng~t : There is a natural trend toward personal growth once an individual is free to accept himself. The task of the change agent is to help the person accept his strengths and weaknesses without the judgmental pressures of othersD values being in-troduccd. Then he will be able to accept both society and its values. 9/9 C~ang¢ ola CndiMli~y : Since behavior is learned, it may b~ modified through relearning. The change agent's task is one of creating conditions under which people can learn the consequences of current behavior and explore the feasibility of new behavior~ in realistic settings. Reality testing resalts in conformity based on commitment. Low Charismatic ~hangt : People accept suggestions only from people they can respect. The change agent must be "one of the guys" ff he is to gain enough prestige to influence. Changees will copy his behavior to win his respect and will then learn it is better. ~ustodial No one person can really change another. People only conform or fail to conform if they want to. The task of the change agent nccessarily is one of apprising the changce of the rules and then leaving it up to him to decide whether he wants to follow them and stay out of t~ouble or break them and suffer the conse-quences. At the same time, the change agent must keep those in authority informed as to how the changee is behaving. 9/t C~angt Via C~mplianrt: It may not be possible to change a personDs attitude, but one can change his behavior if he makes it elear what is expected of the changcc and what can happen if the changee fa~ls to conform. The change agent's taak is to transmit this information dearly and then to follow up by keeping "tabs'~ on the changee to see that he con-forms and knows that the change agent means business. 4 5 6 7 8 9 High Coastrn for Conformity The 9/1 .4pproach--Change through Compliance The lower right hand corner of the grid tells of that change strategy which is maximally concerned for con-fortuity and minimally concerned for commitment. This sister decides that community members cannot do both Agent oJ Change vo~u~ 2,, ~97o 393 Louis Tomaino REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS ~9~ so it is better to use one approach and make it work. The 9/1 sister will likely express her philosophy in this manner: It's been my experience that people do things only when they have to. A lot of the time sisters can't possibly agree with the way the Church says they have to conduct themselves, but they have to nevertheless., or suffer the consequences. Once a per-son realizes this, he makes it easier on himself and everybody else. I think change can best be brought about by spelling out what is expected of a person and what provisions exist for dealing with him when he doesn't conform. My job, as an agent of change, is to work with persons closely and see that they follow the letter of the law so that their behavior is acceptable and in accordance with general values o£ the Church. The 9/1 strategy does bring about change in many instances. The thing communities need to be aware of is some of the consequences which this approach pro-duces in others. Such responses as fear, rebellion, re-sentment, and hostility are byproducts in others of the 9/1 stance. Such psychological outcomes are unfavor-able for effecting change in the people who have those feelings. Under this system the community must be run as a "tight ship" with few democratic overtones. Indeed, for many years religious communities functioned as 9/1 organizations. Some still do. However, other 9/1 systems like the military and the police have begun to change albeit imperceptibly. With the advent of Vatican II, religious orders have also witnessed a trend away from compliance oriented styles of management. It used to be that sisters' behaviors could be regulated under con-ditions allowing little deviation from specified require-ments, and that by this fait accompli effect sisters would eventually acquire commitment. This "legalized" ap-proach to change does not seem a very satisfactory method for inducing long term commitment. The 1/9.4pproach--Person-cente~ed Change The person-centered strategy represented in the upper left grid corner assumes that people want to gain the values of the congregation and will gravitate toward that end when they are "freed" to do so. Concerns for conformity are rejected as antithetical to free choice. Person-centered change is designed to help the sister ac-cept her own shortcomings as a means of finding herself in her community and accepting others as well. Trust and appreciation are central to this relationship and concerns for conformity are seen as "getting in the way" of real commitment. This sister would likely perceive matters as follows: Basically people want to live good lives and get along well in their communities, but many of them just don't knowhow. Too many people have never had the opportunity to get to know themselves and, consequently, they can't really accept themselves or other people. I think the job of an agent of change is to work closely with people so that they can first learn to accept themselves as genuinely important human be-ings. Then they will be able to accept and appreciate others as well and will feel worthy of the religious life. Once a person has gotten rid of his own self doubts, he will naturally begin to grow and seek out the solid values of his congregation. The job of the change agent is one of helping people find self-ac-ceptance and freedom of expression, on the basis of which real growth can occur." The 1/1 Approach--Laissez Faire Change CustodiaI change as depicted in the lower left-hand corner of the grid presumes that individuals are autoge-nous and change or fail to do so as a result of their own desires. This really is not a change strategy but more a reflection of the change agent's unique perception of his own role. These sisters believe in "the way we have always done things" and think that change is up to other persons. Her philosophy would read like this: I believe that in the long run it is impossible for one person to really change another. Human nature is the strongest determinant of behavior and some people are just naturally better than others. It seems to me that the best thing for an agent of change to do is to spell out the rules for people as clearly as he can and then let them make their own choice as to whether they are going to follow them or not. Where there are clear rules, there are also pretty clear consequences spelled out for any failure to conform. People are pretty much their own bosses and it isn't realistic for any one person to try to change them. At best, a change agent is a representative of his community who hopes and prays that others will obey. In the end this way of thinking will promote "don't rock the boat" values, and terminate in "rut." Idealistic 1/9 type candidates who enter the 9/I congregations might well end up making 1/1 adjustments, Psychic en-ergy gets diverted to secondary external matters such as housecleaning, posturing, gestures,, and various other correctness models. Under these conditions communities may appear to function smoothly because everything seems to be in order. Underlying this facade, however, is a profile of non-involvement by community members with each other and, sometimes, an apparently perfunc-tory apostolic performance. The 5/5 Approach--Charismatic Change In the grid center we find a 5/5 strategy which says that the sister must have concern for both conformity and commitment. However, this approach also states that the more concern exhibited for one means less for the other. In effect, this sister goes half way with both concerns. She seeks to gain the respect and affection of Agent o~ Change V0LU~E 29, 197o 395 Louis To'malne REVIEW FOR RELIGIOUS 396 others and utilizes this commitment to herself as a per-son to bring about change in others. Her philosophy is expressed along these lines: I think people basically resent being told what to do or what is expected of them by other people who don't really understand their problems or have had no experience in com-mon with them. I think the agent of change has to be a person who understands the situation of the people he is trying to change so that they will respect his judgment. The best way to bring about change is to first convince people that you are "one of them" and then set the exam.pie. When a person sees someone he respects and can trust acting a certain way, he will usually try to act the same way simply because he respects that person and wants to be respected by him in turn. This is a hard but effective way of bringing about change and the agent of change has to be sincere and willing to really give of his time. Change through 5/5 dynamics can be very effective. Its implementation is difficult because it requires a highly
Transcript of an oral history interview with Linnea "Lin" (Peterson) Westberg conducted by Sarah Yahm at the interviewee's home in Nashua, New Hampshire on February 5, 2015, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Lin Westberg was one of the first women to join the Norwich University Corps of Cadets in 1974. Includes discussion of her experiences as a student at Norwich University and her later careers in the Air Force and as a school counselor. ; Linnea "Lin" Westberg (Peterson), NU 1978, Oral History Interview February 5, 2015 Interviewee's home in Nashua, New Hampshire Interviewed by Sarah Yahm Transcribed by C.T. Haywood, NU '12 February 10, 2015 SY: Okay, so let me just start the official interview. I'm here with Linn Westberg. It's—it is February 5th 2015 and I'm at her house in Nashua, New Hampshire. And usually you start an oral history interview from the beginning. So where were you born? LW: I was born in Lowell, Massachusetts. Grew up in Westford, Mass. SY: Excellent LW: Not too far from there. SY: And when you were growing up what did you want to be? LW: Hmm….Originally something in the medical field I think. You know, I didn't really have any great ideas about careers although my mother was pretty, I guess for her time, sort of ahead of the game. She was a lab director of a meteorology lab and she worked for the federal government which back then - so she was sort of the only mom that wasn't in the neighborhood when we were growing up, you know. But I, she managed it kind of like how we all do today. So I think when it was I went to Norwich that I sort of solidified my different goals and career plans. SY: And did you come from a military family? LW: No, that's interesting because I was sort of going through my things when you called a little bit and my dad was not in the military, but both brothers were. So my oldest brother served in the Army, First Lieutenant Jeff Peterson, and unfortunately he was tragically killed while he served at a young age. And he's buried at Arlington. We were just there. My brother—other brother, Greg Peterson, went to Norwich and so he also served. He was in the Army and he did a full career, both active and then as a reserve officer and he retired as lieutenant colonel and he was a helicopter pilot. So… SY: Were they both in Vietnam? LW: Um no, J—my oldest brother, was killed you know while he was on active duty, but not in Vietnam. And then my, the middle brother, 'cause they're quite a bit older than me, the middle brother, he, there's a law where sole surviving sons and daughters do not have to serve if, you know, so he was able to do - he didn't have to go to Vietnam. He was able to fly [clears throat] like he flew in Korea and did things like that, so. And he's a big supporter of Norwich. He went up there on a basketball scholarship and then his son went to Norwich and his wife's sister went to Norwich. So there's sort of this legacy [chuckles] and I think that's pretty common. SY: I think it is too. Do you remember going up and visiting him there? LW: Oh yeah. SY: Yeah what you think? LW: Very much. SY: What was your first impression? LW: So Greg is ten years older than me and I very much, you know, we used to take the old Route 12 up from here before they built all the 89 and everything, and so it was a big trek to go up there. And I distinctly remember going up there that first Parent Weekend with my parents and seeing him at Norwich and you the whole military thing and it really, I mean it really, it was just an amazing thing to see. You know, you'd [he'd] been an athlete in high school went up there on a basketball scholarship, full basketball scholarship, and you know I was kind of enamored with the school but never of thought of it as a place for me at the time. SY: Well, and that's funny 'cause when I interview, I mean I've mostly been interviewing men and I always ask them like, "did you play war as a kid? Did you play military? Did you play army?" And I should ask you that that too. LW: Yeah, I tended to do a lot of kind of boy th— I think I was a tomboy. I remember asking for cap guns and race cars and I never thought really, and I played with all the traditional girl toys too. But yeah I grew up in a neighborhood where there were a lot kids and we went out and we had acorn fights and we played outside for hours at a time. So very, you know sort of busy kind of kinda outdoorsy kinda upbringing. Camping, all those kinds of things. Hiking. SY: So when did you find out that Norwich was taking women? LW: I think it was my senior year. So I had applied to three or four colleges: Wellesley College, which is an all-girls school; Northeastern University that my oldest brother had gone to; and then University of Lowell, which was the local state school. And in, I really wasn't excited about any…I guess it just hadn't hit me and I said to my dad, "I'd like to go up and look at Norwich." And he's like, "No, that's another admissions fee. We're not going up there." And I said, so I kind of begged him and he said, "Alright." So we went up in the [laughs] in the middle of the winter and, 'cause I just remember walking around the campus in the snow. And it hit me right away that's where I was gonna go because I think it was surprisingly, and people are I think who don't know Norwich, it was extremely welcoming environment. So you would think like Wellesley being all-girls or some of these other schools, but I think it's 'cause it's small. So it was about 1500 students and, you know, the professors were friendly. We met the president, and we met the commandant of cadets. It just was, you know, I said, "This is it. This is where I want to go." That's how I ended up there. SY: And did you know you were gonna be in the Corps? LW: No. SY: Okay. LW: No, because women - here were women matriculating prior to me getting there from Vermont College, meaning they were coming over on a bus and taking classes. And then there was a small contingent of women enrolled in the ROTC program who I believe were just kinda coming over for ROTC classes but they weren't in the Corps. So they would wear the uniform one day a week, go to classes, and then back over to Vermont College to live. So sometime between my visit and the spring of my senior year, in that summer, some decisions must have been made. I don't know. Because I got a call over the summer from Colonel John Wadsworth asking me if I wanted to join the Corps of Cadets. I knew, I knew they were women, somehow I knew, because I wouldn't have wanted to do the bus thing from Vermont College. But he asked me if I wanted to join and I said, I mean it was a very quick decis--I said, "Sure, yeah, I'll do that." [chuckle] Honestly, I really had no idea what that meant. I just, I kind of though like everybody was doing it you know. And without like today's social media you weren't connecting with other people so the first I knew was that when I showed up there in August. SY: Did you get this letter? LW: Let me see, "Dear Ms." [chuckles] SY: Yeah, they left it blank, they didn't fill that in, I think it's hilarious. I think that was their prototype. I just found that in the archives yesterday LW: Oh my gosh. SY: in Loring Hart's papers. Pausing to read. SY: But you remember getting a phone call not a letter? LW: I got a phone call, I don't remember this letter actually. SY: Yeah. LW: It could have come, yeah, honestly I don't remember. But I don't know I'd love a copy at some point, that's interesting. SY: Here take it. LW: Oh thank you, SY: It's yours, I have a scan Linn laughs SW: and I just printed it out. I have some other things from the archives too if you want them you can take them. LW: Yeah, that's kind of fun to read, yeah. SY: Yeah. LW: Yeah, I've some newspaper articles too for you. I don't know if you have them, SY: Oh okay. LW: That you can—yeah, sort of the local Vermont papers were kind of interested in what was going on. SY: Oh excellent. LW: Yeah, so I'll share all that SY: Very cool. LW: before you go. SY: So okay, so you show up and you said, "Sure, I'll be in the Corps," right? So then did you have a moment where you were like "what did I get into?" LW: Yeah, definitely. Sort of the first issue was they hadn't told us that everybody showing up was gonna be wearing khaki pants and white shirts. So we showed up in like street clothes. So we already stood out, right, being female. And then to have like really bright clothes, I was like "oh my gosh," you know and then I thought okay this is really interesting. I think my aha moment was definitely in the auditorium or the Plumley Armory when President Hart said, "We'd like to welcome four young women into the freshmen class, Norwich University, you know. 150 years. It was a really nice speech, but we sort of all looked at each other and thought "oh my gosh." SY: Did he make you stand up? LW: I don't remember having to stand up. I just remember feeling really out there, really out there. And my dad was in the back of the room and I was a little worried about him because I was the youngest, my mom had passed away, and I was looking around saying, "oh my God, what's he gonna do?" you know. And he was chatting everybody up and I said, "Okay, he's gonna be fine," and then they marched us up the Hill and you know that's when it really starts. They put you through the whole indoctrination so… SY: And what was— LW: But that didn't seem that unusual because we were just, like they didn't separate us or anything, we were just all part of it. So I didn't feel – and you'd already started, you know, that's where you really begin to connect with the other freshmen. That's really when it starts because you realize you know, okay, the cadre, all these like really mean people and you know when they're not looking you're whispering to each other and you start to connect that way and you know, so. SY: So I somehow thought that women were separated, but you were all tangled, you were all together? LW: Yeah, we were and we weren't. So like that day we were, you know where we went the whole [group went]. But it became pretty apparent that they probably had tried, but hadn't completed like figuring out what we were gonna wear. Because they go, typically freshmen go and they issue your uniforms and so we were getting some uniforms but not all uniforms. SY: Did they cut your hair? LW: We did not have to cut our hair but we had to wear it up. So I came with like hair down to my, you know way down my back, but right away, you know, the Army regulation is above your collar. So we all had long hair and it all had to go up. I think we got white shirts so that improved the whole and whatever we had for pants [chuckles] 'cause the freshmen wore them until they got their uniforms. You wear the khakis. So that was a little bit better but probably one of the biggest challenges was they moved us into Gerard Hall which was the female civilian dorm. And we were put on the top floor upper right corner, upper left corner there, and all the freshmen other women were on the same floor down at the other end of the hall. And that was really weird because we were, you know, going through the whole Rook thing and they weren't. So we'd, you know - but in a way it was we did bond with them as well so it was this dual experience. I mean they were, you know, going out on Friday night and getting dressed up and going out on dates and we couldn't do any of that. So they housed us there for a while and actually our cadre, Nancy whom you've met, and Roberta and Diane Halliday, and there's—I can't think of Mary's last name. So they— SY: Moskos, was it Moskos? LW: That was Roberta Moskos. And Mary - she's in one of the articles - also lived on the floor with us which was also unusual 'cause typically just freshmen males would live to together and maybe a couple of the cadre. And then rest of the upperclassmen would be in the dorm but not on the floor where you're going through that training. So… SY: Yeah it sounds like from when I was talking with Nancy that the relationship between you and the other women who were your cadre was different. LW: Yeah, it was, it was. Yeah I think it was hard for them, yeah this is all in reflection later but I think it was hard for them because they hadn't had full benefit of being freshmen themselves and all that training. But I think they did a really good job trying to do what they were supposed to do. But it was a little more, there was a little more familiarity with them than we would have had certainly with the male cadre. And sometime, maybe November/December, they decided to move us from Gerard Hall over to Patterson Hall and put us in with male freshmen platoon. Got that name right. And so that turned out to be much better because we had, we had freshmen counterparts, males that we were working with every day but we also had sort of these upperclassmen that were supporting us, you know, in addition to like the women cadre. SY: And did you feel sup—'cause I know that the cadre you know that, I mean some of the members of the Corps were like "yay women," and some were not. So how did that play itself out for you? LW: I definitely felt that. For me it was more positive than negative. More support. I think I learned somehow early on that when you're a minority going into that kind of a situation that you somehow, you want to blend to some degree. So, you know, it's much easier to figure things out from within that organization than from trying to fight [chuckles]. Do you know what I mean? So I think I did that, I blended in and I got really active and busy at Norwich. And so then I made a lot of connections and that's how people judge you, based on those personal connections rather than being part of a group. Now people that didn't know us personally, maybe weren't in any classes with us, or that's where you might get a little bit of trouble or they were like from the '50s or something, that whole attitude about women. And there was definitely a few of them floating around. SY: What about professors. Did you feel like the professors welcomed you in their classrooms? LW: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. My roommate is actually the first woman engineer at Norwich. And so she was in all classes with all males and all those engineering professors. I think she would say they were great, you know, and her classmates were great. My professors were wonderful, very supportive, you know. It's a very stressful year trying to keep up with everything as a freshmen there. You know you have to re—you're just learning so much at once. It's like a double education. You're learning your academic stuff but you're also doing all that military stuff. It's like getting a master's degree in human relations 'cause you're learning all about how people interact, and the way people behave in groups. And it's really - when you're going through you don't recognize it, but later you realize "wow" 'cause you come out. And then when you get to the workforce you're like, "wow that was unbelievable what I learned there." SY: So now that you're a counselor, right? LW: Yeah,. SY: So I'm wondering if you can like take your counselor head and think back on that year. So what was, what sort of psychologically was going on during that Rook year? For you and for everyone? LW: I think, to some degree what went on with us was went on with everybody else. Like we had one girl leave, but there were other freshmen that left, you know, it just wasn't a good fit. Perhaps I think, I—you know oftentimes I look back and go would I do that again? Would I choose to do what I did because it has made everything else so much easier? On the other hand, I look at my kid's college educations and I say, "oh." My husband and I go, "are you kidding me?" They, what do they do with all the free time? They only have like five classes or four. We're thinking they're just you know, so I go "yeah I know, but th—it just," in a lot of ways like a lot more than I've witnessed other people had to do that went to a regular college. So… SY: And what about that sense, 'cause isn't the whole idea of the Rook year to sort of break down individuality and create that sense of a collective. Do you remember that process happening? LW: Very much, yeah. And they absolutely do do that. They take you back to the very the basics, you know… SY: Any anecdotes that you remember, any moments? LW: Oh yeah all that stuff in the halls [chuckles]. Getting dragged out in the middle of the night, having them scream at us. I don't know, you know, going—I think, I don't know, I think I - I remember looking around and looking at the fear on everybody's face because you really, like you think this is real what you're going through. And it's very similar to the military training so it's, it's really in many ways identical I think. But you're dealing with less trained people so and you're dealing with college students meaning age wise as far as being thrown into these leadership positions. So you know, I would say, I remember, I remember walking in the gutter, I remember being pulled out of the meat line a lot which was you know and you had to, they'd scream questions at you from the Norwich Rook Book. But I was a diligent student so I didn't struggle with that, you know reading my book and whatever. There was always somebody else that couldn't answer a question. [laughs] So that was, that was pretty easy. I think the physical stuff was the hardest for me and I found that throughout even when I went into the military because it's really a male model okay? And all they do is sort of cut it back a little bit for women, but it's really designed for men and I think they were trying to figure that out at Norwich. And so in the beginning like when we were running, and when they first put us in the guy platoon to run - and I ran a lot before I went to Norwich 'cause I knew you kind of had to be a little bit in shape - and it was still really hard. So you know the more I got in shape the easier it became, but I could never keep up with the men. So you always felt like a little bit sort of a like a day late and a dollar short. You know what I mean? SY: Did you also feel like you had the responsibility to prove that women could do it? LW: Yes, yeah. But I don't know, you know I think on the other hand I used to think about some of the guys that were having trouble and then thinking like, wow you know 'cause I mean they would they were a little softer on us if we couldn't do it. But they would scream at the guys if they couldn't do it. So that was, so I was very empathetic I think to anybody that struggled because it was just something that was harder for us. It really was. And then you know people were not slouches by any means it's just that it was a different level of fitness than you know I'd been used to certainly. So I think a big, kind of a cool moment for us, we did the Dog River whatever it's called thing, and all of us did really well on that. So we tended to do really well in things requiring stamina and distance and maybe not so well in speed or strength. Certainly I know like my upper body strength, I just didn't have it. Women didn't do push-ups back then, you know, and so, or pull ups or any of that kind of stuff. So I remember that being, that being very challenging and worrying about it like, "Oh my God what if I fall behind? What if I?" You know. That was always weighing on your mind. The other stuff like wearing the uniform, memorizing all of this intellectual pieces were not hard. SY: It was the physical part? LW: It was the physical part. Yeah. SY: Could you talk a little more about that idea of like feeling like you were standing in for a whole group or? LW: You mean like representing women? Yeah I think that's an interesting phenomena and it has made me very sensitive to minorities: religious minorities, racial minorities. Because people tended…I always felt responsible for like whatever I was doing whether it be academically (I know that's ridiculous, but) or how I presented myself is representing not just myself, but like all women. And that's a lot of pressure. So I think, and I think we all kind of felt that way. And I think we also kept an eye on each other like worrying about what they were, other people were doing because particularly we felt super responsible as more women came to Norwich. To make sure, to try to make sure that the path was laid, if you will, and that it was a little bit easier. Because you wanted people to do well, you know, and you didn't want to stand out. You didn't want to, you just wanted to be part of the group, honestly. SY: I'm wondering if you have a memory of like real triumph and a memory of "I want to quit." You know what I'm saying? I would imagine you have both of those. LW: I think that "I want to quit" was they, the whole thing getting recognized thing went on and on [chuckles]. So we did not get recognized till Valentine's Day timeframe. So that started in August and it's like, "Oh my gosh are we ever getting out of the gutter here," you know? It gets to the point where you kind of want to just, you know, be an upperclassmen I guess. And so I think that was like "uh" [sound of frustration] and also when you would see people drop out or struggle or have a hard time that's always very challenging, I think. I loved my classes. I was tired all the time though like you know the professors are trying to keep you awake, because you're up all night doing crazy ridiculous stuff - you know, ironing and doing your brass. I think it's a stamina test in a lot of ways. So I think that's kind of when I was like, "alright." And we did, not my year but subsequent years there were people that would always because it became an option to be a civilian at Norwich. If it wasn't fun people could like [making a noise of pulling the plug] go over to the civilian side, you know. We didn't entirely have that option. I mean I suppose I could have but I was like Norwich is the Corps, you know. Why wouldn't I do that once you're there and you realize that? And then I think probably that same thing I think, you know, graduating from there was a big deal [chuckles]. Graduating with all those guys. That was a pretty, you know, was proud of that. SY: Yeah do you remember how you felt that day? LW: Yeah I was like wow [chuckles], we did this, you know? Three of us made it through from that freshman class. I mean there were only four so that was really good statistics, I think, considering. It was really, every year was groundbreaking if you know what I mean, like women had never held positions of rank, women had never been platoon leaders, women had never commanded a company, women had never, you know, been in ROTC X year. So every year it was the first. So it was wasn't just that first day of Norwich it was all through, so getting through was. But by then, you know, there were women coming behind us so it didn't seem so different. SY: How, was it like to mentor those women coming after you? LW: Well I decided my first year. I, you know, I went back and I didn't and this is another thing that I really learned at Norwich, but coming back I didn't really get involved in sort of the cadre stuff too much. I mean you had to go and apply for these positions and I don't know it was a self-confidence thing but my roommate did, she did and I was like wow I can do that. So I think it was my junior year and I really went for it. I wanted to do like the job that was probably considered the most difficult, and being a platoon sergeant where you're really kind of in charge of a lot of people. And so that, that was, that was a really cool. That was, you know. And that was also the same year, now that was my senior year that - trying to remember. So my senior year I applied to be a company commander and was selected and I've got to tell you you're always sort of like "Am I good enough or they picking me because I'm a woman?" Do you know what I mean? I don't think I felt that way so much but I was always wondering if other people were thinking it [chuckles], "are they doing it because," you know? But I think I earned the respect of my peers so I—once I settled into that and was able to handle it than I felt okay about it, you know? SY: About being? LW: Yeah. SY: In a leadership position? LW: Yeah. SY: And what, I mean I think that something that Norwich does well is it trains people to be leaders to take on leadership roles. So what type of leader did you become, were there models that you were like, "ooh I want be a leader like that" and then other people who you were like, "I don't want to be a leader like that?" LW: Yeah, it's funny you mention that because, um. So when they, so I think I told you my husband's a Norwich grad. So he was actually a junior when I was a freshman and he was one person that I did watch. And it wasn't, it was even before we started dating or any of that, because he was a very sort of honest, you know, just sort of a wonderful supportive person to all of the women. And I thought, but yet he was really respected by everybody. And I think, I think that's the kind of – and he cared about people. So I think that's that perfect blend of a leader, really, somebody who people want to work for because they know that you care about them and you put your, you put them first. And he had actually volunteered to have us in his group. So [chuckles] you know, and so we got to work pretty closely with he and there was… SY: Uh oh hold on. LW: Oh sure, Recording pause and resumes SY: But [coughs] so yeah at the time. So I wonder how your husband felt about women and coming into the Corps? LW: I was asking him I said, "Do you have any memories of this stuff?" I did sort of try to find out like what happened before we came, "Did they train you guys?" He said, "Not much." He felt like it, they weren't really very ready. There was a lot of resistance talked about among the other cadets that he recalls, you know so. I think a lot of the guys that kind of were on our side were the more independent, you know, progressive, kind of thinking kind of people. SY: And what was the resistance about? LW: Women. Just Norwich you know. I think we used to joke "150 years of tradition unmarked by progress." Which really wasn't true because I think they were very progressive in their way. It's just that you sort of you know, I think things happen when things are ready to happen to some degree. I mean women had certainly served in the military, but no woman had gone through a military college prior to what we did. Two years later women were admitted to the service academies and actually we went, we went as a group to West Point and worked with those freshmen. SY: What was that like? LW: They, they were so happy to see us [chuckles]. They were. They had no idea what they gotten into. And I, you know there was a lot of back and forth, I remember because Norwich I think they still send people. There used to be different like, I don't know if history professors set it up, but there were different things you could do, you know, over while you were at Norwich. Or West Point kids, guys would come up to Norwich. And mostly what they experienced is what we experienced and I think we were just there to be supportive. And we talked to the, you know they were actually active Army officers in charge of them. It was very different. It's way more real military. And I came out of there thinking, "Wow you know, Norwich is really a learning lab." I mean they, we didn't have a lot of supervision by Regular Army officers, you know. People were trained, but so you learned as you went, I think, more than having everything spelled out for you. So… SY: Which has its pros and cons, I would imagine? LW: Yeah, well sometimes your—but you know, it's funny, because human behavior is human behavior, you know? But I think they were very watchful to make sure that nothing really negative has, we didn't really have any horrifically negative experiences I would say. At least none that I personally experienced or that would be any different than anyone at a college, you know. But, yeah I would say and it's probably still a problem, I mean how trained is somebody after one year in the Corps of Cadets? You know, so. But I think they're mindful of that and oversee it. I mean, I'm talking about the adults, the staff, the professional staff at the college. And it was helpful to us, they brought in a woman she—she was. she became the Dean of Women. So my first year they brought in a, her job was to kind of I think oversee and look out for us and help with any kind of issue that came up. SY: Oh her name, what was her name? LW: Nunez de Cela. SY: Yeah. LW: Yeah, and actually I have a nice letter from her. SY: Really? LW: Yeah, that I'll show you, SY: I'm wondering if you could read it. Is it long? LW: Where is that letter? [recorder turns off and then turns back on] SY: So let's talk about that letter. LW: Oh, you want me to read the letter? SY: Yeah, yeah I think you should 'cause there's something, it's very respectful and I like the way she talked to you, yeah. LW: Okay, so this is a letter dated February 13, 1975, wow. Dear Private Peterson: At the Recognition Dinner last night I wondered how many of the Rooks, cadre, and staff, realized how different your experiences as Rooks have been from those of the male cadets. Well different they have been no less valid, in many ways yours has been the greatest contribution made to Norwich this year. It is a comfort to follow an established pattern of behavior created by 156 years of tradition. It is a comfort to have leaders who are experienced in guiding new students through the mazes of those behavioral patterns. And finally it is comforting to know exactly where you're headed and what to expect when you arrived there. For you there has no such comfort. From the first you've have had to share the rather awesome responsibilities for the future, not only for your future but also for that of the women who will follow you and of the University as a whole. Your training period demanded maturity from the very first. More than any other Rooks this year you have had the courage and the determination to be first. To make Essayons a reality. As you might well guess the old lady is very proud of you. Best wishes for continued success. Sincerely, Nadine Nunez de Cela, Dean of Women, Assistant Commandant, Norwich University. SY: That's awesome, and she had no military background, did she? LW: I don't think so. SY: Huh, so and what happened to her? LW: [sighs] She was there for a few years. And I was telling you earlier that they decided it would be beneficial to bring in an active Army officer into the ROTC detachment, which was a pretty good move on their part. I will say they were, I think they were forward thinking. I really felt that way. Just, there were always lots of questions everything from well when do you wear this uniform? You know nobody was really familiar with women's uniforms [chuckles]. So I think having somebody there and who had some connections in the Army and who'd been through all of that and in her own way. I mean she was a major at the time, so that was, so I think she's sort of became, I guess you would call it more of the informal. I mean, she was really a regular ROTC instructor but I think her side job was to help us where we needed help and help us pave the path I guess. SY: Yeah [coughs] so did you plan on commissioning? LW: When I was at Norwich, yes. So once I got there I decided that I really liked it, the military lifestyle which I had really had not thought about. There were no role models for women honestly, out there in the world. I mean unless you had a military parent or something, you know. Even though my brothers served it still wasn't something women did in any quantity, and it certainly wasn't in the media. But I really liked the lifestyle once I got through that freshman year and I thought, "Okay, this would be kind of cool," you know, a career. And then, then I met my future husband and he was two years ahead of me and getting a commission in the Marine Corps. So I could not figure out how this was gonna work. So I left the Air Force ROTC program and started to pursue Marine officer commissioning. SY: So what was that like? LW: So it was like, okay I had to go take the officer qualifying test, did all of that which was not easy, because it was definitely a male geared test. [chuckles] It was all like angles and it was a very interesting test. It wasn't anything like the Air Force qualifying test. So that was hard, but I did it. And then so basically I graduated from Norwich and I got married like a week later, and then I left after my honeymoon for Marine Officer Candidate School in Quantico, Virginia. And when I landed there, I realized that this was a first, that no women had gone through Marine OCS with the men. So we were, and prior to that actually I—my husband had connected me with some women and they made it sound like so great, "Oh they teach you how to wear makeup," and "oh you know." It sounded very fluffy. Well it wasn't [laughs]. When I got there it was terrible, oh my gosh it was. I mean they were really out to prove something. So there were fifty women that started with me in this platoon. And imagine I'd already been through Norwich so this was, like the guy was yelling at my ear, but I was like you know that didn't bother me, none of that. The physical stuff was crazy and so each day somebody was getting hurt. So by the third week, like I want to say a third of the women were gone. And so everyday you'd wake up and go it was like okay whose gonna, you know fall off the obstacle course or so. I ended up dislocating my knee which was a minor injury compared to other people. Rehabilitated there and they wanted to cycle me back through and I said, "You know I just don't think I'm cut out. You know I'm not cut out for this." So that was, you know, and then I think I told you a little bit about my story. I later ran into my classmate and decided, you know, I still wanted to serve so went to officer training for the Air Force and I did get commissioned there in June of '80. SY: And it seems like you were like this is crazy I want out. It doesn't seem like you were angsty about it, it doesn't seem like you were like or were you? LW: That I was what? SY: Like you were self-hating about not making through the Marine Corps training? LW: No, I mean, that day I fell off the um, you know, got injured. I was definitely disappointed 'cause I, I thought it was gonna work as far as the two of us being able to be stationed together and you know I still wanted that military career. But I knew that, you know it's interesting because that experience, because there's been lot of conversation later about women serving in combat. And that experience showed me that you have to be a very unusual woman to serve in an infantry combat role. Now, serving in combat can mean a variety of things. You know Air Force pilots are in a plane. It's very different than humping like we were fifty pound packs and rifles and heavy boots and you know you're just smaller physically. The only female that was doing really well was my bunkmate. She was a black belt in karate before she got there. So she was already like super fit. And frankly everybody was like "Get me out. This is like too much." I think they've improved that a lot, you know, I think they learned a lot from that first class. But no I didn't, I was just like, just this isn't… SY: And they weren't rooting for you either? LW: I didn't feel that way. No. SY: Yeah, LW: No. SY: So, okay, so what was the Air Force training like? LW: [laughs] The Air Force is, well physically it's not as demanding. I mean you have to do things like I had to train to run a mile and a half in twelve minutes which is no joke. I had to get up every morning with a bunch of people. You know we would go out and do that and practice. It's a lot of, the Air Force is a huge organization and in a lot of ways I think of it like a business. You're learning all facets of that organization, so it's a lot of classwork actually. You're learning about the mission, you're learning discipline with the marching and the keeping your room clean and all of that. But after Norwich that was a breeze. I mean it was just like go through it, you know. And but there, there were a couple of turning points for me. I had a captain who was my squadron commander and I had applied - so your first six weeks you're sort of in the training mode. Your second six weeks you're in the leadership mode. And you apply for these different positions and I had said, "Oh maybe I'll be the woman liaison officer." So if you can see where women were thinking, okay? And he looked at me and he said, "No," he said, "I want you to apply to be the wing commander," which was the top job and I was like, "Oh you're kidding. I can't do that." He goes, "Yes you can." He said, "I've been watching you for six weeks. That's definitely what you should do." So it took somebody else to tell me that I could do that. And I applied and I got the second position. And so that was that was, that was very conf—that was a huge confidence builder. So, but Norwich had kind of laid the groundwork and then here I was in another situation and it was that person that kind of reached out to me. And so I learned that that's like, I like to do that for people. SY: Yeah, and so have you done that for people? LW: Yes, tried, to, where I see strengths you know you try to point it out. That's how we learn. We learn from other people and how they treat us, right? SY: Yeah it's true, LW: When you think about it yeah, so…. SY: So tell me about your career in the military, so where'd you go next? LW: So then they to another school, so I became. I went to a school Biloxi, Mississippi and I had gone into the Air Force from Guam because that's where my husband was stationed with the Marine Corps, and really wanted to go back there obviously. So this short, small window that opened when I went in was to put officers into flight squadrons to sort of deal with all the administrative details that needed to be dealt with. So that so I went to a school to learn how to be an ex— they called an executive officer and I showed up on the island of Guam for my first assignment at Andersen Air Force Base, walked in with my orders to do that. And they're like "Oh we already have a guy here that's doing it. We're gonna send you over to the maintenance squadron." So I spent a year and a half working in B-52 maintenance squadron which I loved. I loved being on flight line. That was fabulous you know. SY: So did you learn how to fix B-52s? [laughs] LW: No, but all the guys in the squadron that's they did. And women. So I was more, you know as an officer you oversee all of that but you're not turning the actual wrench yourself, you know. So but I just loved it. You're up early, you know, watching the planes take off, watching the guys load them. And making sure that they have everything they need to do their job basically. That's sort of. And while I was there I had an opportunity to work for a general officer, I became a general's, what they call an aide-de-camp. So I worked for him and that was a first, you know, and that was kind of an unusual job I think. So I traveled with him and his entourage, I guess you could call it, and got to do. And I went into the office and became a protocol officer. So we handled all the visiting dignitaries. I got to meet like George Bush, and congressmen would come through. Because this was a big airstrip in the middle of the ocean and they had to refuel so we entertained them all as they came through. But that was fun. SY: And were you living on base with your—? LW: Ah no, yeah we lived, my husband was stationed at the Marine Corps barracks. I was stationed at Andersen and we lived in the middle at the Naval Hospital housing. So we lived with all the Navy doctors and nurses, and dentists and… SY: And I would imagine you had sort of a weird position, like I wonder how you interacted with sort of the Army wives on base. LW: That's…. SY: Weird? LW: Yeah. Ah yes. Well it, not so much on the Air Force base but the mar— so I was part of the Marine Officers' wives club [laughs]. So I would go to work and do my Air Force thing but I loved all these women and so, you know, we had a great time. It was very international group of women, all nationalities that these Marines had met in their assignments all over the world. We just had a great time. Everybody is young, no kids. But we did all traditional wifely things you know. Became very, very, close-knit to that group, as well as all the Air Force people so it was sort of the best of both worlds. And we loved our medical neighbors. It was a fun two years. A lot of good traveling 'cause you're very close to everything in the Far East. So and then from there I went to, I wanted to just, my husband was getting out of the service so I just wanted to find a big city to be stationed in so he could start his career. So we ended up in Denver and he started a civilian career and I worked there in an Air Force training squadron and kind of worked my up to become a squadron commander there which was a great job, because I learned how to be in charge of large groups of people trying to accomplish a mission. That was fun. The location was fun, the people were fun, so I really enjoyed that. Once again had a, you know, some female experiences if you want to call it that. I came in, when I was first assigned there, there was a black first sergeant and he was tough. And I could tell he was like "uch" a woman, and he made some comment like, "Oh I don't think I really want to work for a woman," and I said, "What if I said to you, I don't want to work for black guy?" And he was really taken aback. I don't think, I don't know what he expected from me but we after that we hit it off perfectly [laughs]. It was just I came at him the way he came at me and he knew I wasn't going to fool around and he took care of me and watched my back. You always say that about a good NCO, they watch your back. Even planned my promotion ceremony so, you know, but it was. But I knew how to handle him because of Norwich, you know. I knew, like I don't know what another woman would have done in that situation coming in cold not having worked with all men for four years at Norwich. SY: So what is the skillset? Is it just being direct? Is it just being clear? Is it not being bullied, like what is it? LW: Yeah I think its self-confidence, the way you present yourself that people respect. Yes, and it's also not being bullied. Frankly [clears throat], it's really easy and it's not just for women, but it's really easy to get taken advantage of or get pushed around. It's recognizing when that's happening and asserting yourself and sticking up for yourself and that's nothing that I was born with, I learned all of that. I mean I tell my students now in class, you know I told them 'cause I teach a guidance class, that, you know, the way you present and carry yourself is really how you're gonna be treated. You're gonna be treated the way you demand to be treated, so don't let people do that to you. And that held true in business. Let's face it business is still majority of men and it held true in the military. It holds true everywhere I think, so you know. SY: Yeah, did you see other women [coughs]. Sorry, did you see other women when you were in the service who like didn't have that skillset? Did you see women being bullied or harassed or situations like that? LW: You know it's funny I definitely dealt with some difficult situations, but the few that I dealt with did not involve military women. It was some civilian women. But, you know, I came right to their aid if I thought I saw something going on that was inappropriate, and made sure it was handled and taken care of and made it clear that it wasn't gonna be happening. And I think that makes a big difference, you know. I think most women that are in the military going through the training gives them a pretty good skillset, you know. Unless they have come to the military with issues or something, but the training, meaning mental health problems or other things like that. I think for the most part you know the training is good and it teaches you know teaches you those things like how to, how to lead, how to take care of yourself, how to do what you need to do. SY: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm just gonna go look at my questions. LW: Sure. SY: While I'm doing that why don't you tell me about the Iranian students? LW: Yes, so the Iranian students came in I want to say around 1980 , so I would have been like a sophomore, junior. And they came in in a pretty large number. I mean, and they came in with you know a lot of money. It's really interesting to drop these - they were young, college age kids - in the middle of Vermont. And they really didn't, it was interesting, I think it was true culture shock for them to have, because what happened was my senior I had a, I was a company commander so I had a lot of the Iranian students in my company. And at first they were like "aah" you know they didn't want anything to do with women being in charge of anything. But they came around because they didn't have a choice. But then you know the whole overthrow then they disappeared. And I'm trying to remember when that happened. And they left all of their belongings. SY: Were you there when that happened? LW: Yeah. SY: It was '80 I think . LW: 1980, yeah and some of them defected. I mean some of them went to Canada, some just disappeared into Vermont and I think some went back. SY: Do you remember, I hear there was like a flea market where they were selling all their stuff, do you remember that day? LW: They didn't, a lot of it was left [chuckles]. I mean they left very expensive stuff in their rooms and just left, you know. I think the ones that were afraid and didn't want to go back they didn't care, they were just out of there. But yeah, I'm sure it was, you know, I'm sure. I didn't buy anything but I'm sure there, I'm sure that probably did happen. But yeah, I remember some kids driving Corvettes and you know they were there on full scholarship with big stipends and obviously were the crème de la crème you know. You didn't get out of the country and go to school in another country then if you weren't somebody, so. SY: And what about the Iranian women cadets? Did you know any of them? LW: I did not, that must have been after me or something because I don't remember any women being there, unless I'm just… SY: I think there were a couple, LW: Were there? SY: But maybe just a couple. LW: Yeah that I don't remember. SY: Yeah, yeah and I think they were also integrating their, the navy there. so yeah. LW: Oh okay. SY: Did you know Bizhan? LW: No. SY: That's interesting. He was, I think he was supposed to be class of '80 LW: Okay. SY: He now runs FacOps at Norwich. LW: Oh! SY: He happened to have, he had a different visa than the other cadets because he was like, "I don't think I want to be in the navy anymore," so he was technically out of the navy. LW: Oh. SY: He was able to stay, LW: When this all happened? SY: Right, when everybody else left, yes. LW: Okay. SY: He watched all his friends leave. And do you remember the news of that when you were on campus? LW: You know Norwich, there was never any news [laughs], It was, you were in a bubble, you know. So I think what we knew was what we witnessed and saw and people told us, and I don't remember reading about it, and we certainly didn't have televisions in our rooms [laughs] or anything or you know. We had WNUB but… SY: Right, but that's— LW: Pretty isolated. SY: Yeah, it's funny when I've been interviewing the Vietnam era folks they say the same thing. And it drove them crazy. LW: Laughs SY: They were like I'm - LW: What's going on? SY: going to go there and I don't know what's happening [coughs]. I guess I'm wondering how your Norwich education affects your life today. LW: Well it has affected my life ever since being, um, time management, huge, how to get a lot done in a short amount of time. I think knowing what's important meaning like I watch people get upset and stressed a lot at work about things that I don't think are that worth worrying about. Because I always go to that place like, 'cause over the years when you serve in them military you meet a lot of people that did serve in very unsavory conditions, or had family who had died, or you just heavy duty stuff and so I kind of look at the world from a different perspective and I think it started at Norwich. It helps me in my work every day because I think my perspective is just, you know, I think. One thing that's been interesting, I think my years in business were easy because of Norwich, because what I know about working with males which is different, it really is, behaviorally, the way they think. …But of course I met my wonderful husband. You know I always say that's why I went to Norwich [laughs]. SY: To get your M-r-s. [in a joking tone]. LW: Well no, I had no intention of really. You know there were women that dropped out and got married and I was like "I would never do that. Never." And, but no just the fact that I met him and we're married all these years later, it's just been a wonderful marriage and so I was lucky 'cause I look at it like when I said to my dad that day, "No," I begged him "let me go look at it." You know I did meet Jim there, so that's huge. SY: That's huge. LW: That affects my life everyday [chuckles]. SY: So, okay, so you were in the military for a while. LW: Yup. SY: And then when did you retire? LW: So I did eight years. So in 1988 I got out and I was stationed at Hanscom Air Force Base, that was my last assignment. And I had crossed trained into, like at the end when I was in Denver I said "I need to find a career that I can do on the outside." And my colonel let me go to Contracting Officer School which is a great program. I mean I went to a lot of different schools to become a contracting officer, and did that at Hanscom. So I did like major weapons systems acquisition which is very transferable to the outside. Got out mostly because I had had my first child. I still loved the work but the Air Force had said they'd wanted me to go to Air Command and Staff College at Maxwell Air Force Base, and it's a ten month school, and I just I couldn't leave my son for ten months and go down there. So I said, "Okay, now's the time I'm getting out." Stayed home with him but then was able to take those skills and I worked at a engineering company for quite a while, eight years I guess doing contract negotiation for them. So, you know and did the whole mother juggle thing [chuckles]. SY: Yup, and when did you retrain to be a counselor? LW: A counselor? So when my second child came along it got a little more challenging for me to balance everything the way I wanted to do it. So I stayed home with my daughter Caroline. I guess I worked for a couple of years and then was home with her. So when she got into late middle school I decided—then I was like okay I'm going to go back to work here. What do I really want to do now? Researched a bunch of things, decided to take a course and just see if I enjoyed it, and just fell in love with the field. I think if Norwich had had psychology I would have majored in that but they didn't have that major. And so went back and that was great because I was still home, but I was going to school, and then when she went to high school I was able to find a position as a school counselor. That's what I'm doing now. SY: And you love it. LW: I do. SY: Excellent! LW: Yeah, yeah. SY: One other question, LW: Yeah. SY: And then I don't know if I have any other real questions, you know again I've been reading these books and memoirs by women in the academies. And they talk about this push and pull between sort of trying to blend in and trying to sort of seem as masculine as possible and also wanting to be seen as feminine and as like a potential partner and how did you juggle that? LW: I never wanted to be masculine. Like I always knew I was, you know I never really, but it, but it's a struggle. You know so there's the physical traits in how you carry yourself, but there's also just the, kind of the way you think and the way you approach the world. There's masculine and feminine, right, ways to and I think I just tried to stay true to myself I think in who I was. You know but I mean, yeah, the uniforms were not attractive [chuckles] you know? And the civilian girls always looked so awesome! We were like "Oh my God where'd they ever find these shoes, these black tie shoes?" We would laugh about it/ You had to have a lot of like self-confidence, you really did, because c'mon, you know? SY: And when you went to the Regimental Balls were you allowed to wear dresses or did you have to wear your uniforms? LW: That's interesting 'cause I think it was my first year that I went we were allowed to wear dresses. And I had to borrow a dress 'cause I didn't, you know, from one of the civilian women. She had beautiful gowns and so we all got one from her I guess. But then I was looking through my yearbook and there's a picture of me and I think they changed the rules and we had to wear, and we weren't happy about that. But yeah you know, you're yeah the same but different, let's face it, right? You know I certainly didn't want to wear that Army uniform to the Junior Week or whatever it was, but we all did, you know? SY: Right, of course. LW: Yeah. And I, the pictures [chuckles] so here you go again. So I was on the like the court they picked a queen and I mean, I can't—I don't know if they still do all that. SY: Oh, right I meant to ask you about that. You were Homecoming Queen? LW: Homecoming Queen, yeah. But the picture's of me in the uniform so I'm like was I really picked or was that [laughs] but yeah so that I believe… SY: Who was Homecoming King? LW: Well that, that was different, the All-American Homecoming Queen thing that was, I'm, George Turner, do you know that name? So he was like I think he was head of public relations or something. His wife was the librarian for a number of years. Big sports enthusiasts. SY: I do know that name. I do know him, yes. LW: He wrote a nomination for that and so there were fifty college women. We all came together. It was a pretty cool experience actually and went to Florida and were in the Orange Bowl Parade and the whole. But that was, it was more, it wasn't like, I didn't have to do anything to get that let's put it that way. [laughs] I didn't win anything or achieve anything. I think it was, you know, hey take the opportunities though when you get them, right sometimes. SY: Right, yeah, exactly. So then there are just some questions like do you think about service? Did Norwich teach you to think about service? Do you think about this idea of the citizen soldier? If these are ideas you relate to, great. If they're not ideas you relate to that's fine [laughs]. LW: No they're ideas that I relate to. That's the first thing they talk to you about, and you don't know what that is. Today kids do. Then I think we did it, you know my parents had me in Girl Scouts, and going to church and all of those things, but you didn't conceptualize that that was being a good citizen. And the whole idea of a citizen soldier, which is really the foundation of Norwich, and absolutely carried that all the way through. That is part of being in the military. It's who you are and so raised our kids that way. We're both that way. I just think it's part of yeah, you know. And it becomes ingrained in you like that's how you believe and want to live your life. It's part of you know, it's part of what's important and in fact I think somewhere in the museum there's a beautiful plaque and it—I took a picture of it when I was up there. But that's what it was, you know, to be able to serve that's what it is. That's what service means being in the service. SY: And did you, I wonder if you feel like your job now is similar in terms of service, do you feel that way? LW: Oh yeah, I look at my job actually as a paid volunteer job. So even when I wasn't working, and that's how I actually had to convince them to take me in my interviews because I hadn't worked for a number of years and breaking back into the work force. But I said, I haven't been sitting at home, this is what I've done which was everything from I mean, involved in a lot of fundraising and different things. And so yes this is, this is something I would do even if they weren't paying me. So yeah, it's that kind of work and I'm fortunate to be able to do it you know. SY: Yeah, absolutely. LW: Yeah. SY: So any last thoughts? LW: No, I'm just, you know, every year when I go up I'm happy to see more women in the Corps of Cadets. And I'm happy to see, you know, that they've had a regimental commander. Like women to me appear very blended in. I always love watching them in the parade and I try to catch up with them when I'm there and just say, "How is, what's going on, what's it like, what's it like for you?" They're always shocked when I tell them [laughs] I'm in the first class of women, you know, and they have a lot of questions. They're curious, really curious about that. And I always look for the girls with the white name tags, 'cause I know they're freshmen, you know at least the Rooks. If I go up for like an Alumni Weekend just to check in they're like "really" 'cause I think it's in the Rook Book or something, I don't know. SY: I wonder if when we do this exhibit if we should have an event which is an opportunity for women in the Corps now to talk to previous women in the Corps. LW: Oh yeah, that would be great. SY: That would be great. I think, I think I'm gonna suggest this to my boss tomorrow, 'cause I think that would be fabulous 'cause I think there's probably a real hunger to talk about it and have a sense of how things have changed and how they're the same and… LW: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, there's a lot of people out there that you know I think Norwich is truly I mean my first job out of the military I got through a Norwich connection. It's just the way the college is and I think the more anyway you can connect. And I think even women going into business out of there or into education or into nursing or into engineering there's alum that have gone before them that are willing to, you know, to help them out so yeah that would be kind of fun. SY: Yeah that would be great. LW: Kind of fun, yeah, SY: That would be, that would be exciting I think. Okay cool, I'm gonna press stop but…
The Mercury February, 1902 R. ST. Cl.AIK POFFENBARGER. J. F. NEWMAN. MISS ANNIE M. SWARTZ. CURTIS E. COOK. E. C. RUBY. A. B. RICHARD. THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY The Literary Journal of Pennsylvania College Entered at the Postoffice at Gettysburg as second-class matter VOL. X GETTYSBURG, PA., FEBRUARY, 1902 No. 8 TABLE OF CONTENTS My Heart, Be Not Dismayed 241 Significance of the Insignificant 242 Hasty Judgments 248 His Two Girls 249 Wit That Wounds and Wit That Cheers 250 The Most Interesting Man That I Have Known 252 Editorials 257 The Record of a Notable Year 259 Causes of the Decline of Poetry 260 The Crowning Event 262 Money 265 The Gains and Losses from a Territorial Division of Labor 270 Exchanges 273 Book Reviews 275 MY HEART, BE NOT DISMAYED [TRANSLATION FROM HEINE] E. C. R., '02. Oh my heart, do not be in dismay, But bear thou thy destiny. New Spring will give back to thee, What the Winter has taken away. How much unto thee is remaining! How pretty the world, indeed! My heart, in love may'st thou feed, On all that to thee may be pleasing. ■ The tongue is prone to lose the way, Not so the pen, for in a letter We have not better things to say, But surely say them better. —EMBRSON. 242 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY i SIGNIFICANCE OF THE INSIGNIFICANT HERBERT FINCH, '98. " T F anyone should write the history of decisive loves that have * materially influenced the world in all its subsequent stages it would be an astonishing history." This is the observation of Sir Robert Palgrave in his "History of Normandy and England." The thought is striking. Because it calls attention to those little happenings, which we have all seen, yet have never taken the time to trace out in their true bearing. The significance of the insignificant. It is the operation of the principle, not a particular example, or instance of its operation to which we would call attention. A principle operating not only in the "amiable feelings" but every1 where and at all times. The play of what seems to be mere chance in the physical world, as well as in that more subtle sphere, the sphere of life and conduct. It is a common observation that the precise forms which mat-ter takes is determined by the accidents of location, environment, and the multitude of its disturbances; likewise that the most care-fully arranged plans of conscious conduct are defeated in the ex-ecution by the unforseen and unexpected contingency which shapes things to its own ends, not to our plans. This is the truth that gives the "little falls of fate," as we call them, a new setting, and brings out their real significance. A significance which is simply startling. We need not fancy that this is the first time in the ages that the gleams of this open fact have beeu seen under the dust and tangle of affairs. If you so fancy, take up your Roman and Greek mythologies, the Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Aeneid, and read again. The votive horse to Minerva—a ruse of a wily Greek—was the fertile source of calamities and adventures enough to form the subject of the tragedies and epics of Greek and Roman literature. And I doubt not is the inspiration of three-fourths of the imaginative literature since. That strategy of Sinon, fatally believed, ended a siege of ten years, and ac-complished what arms, bloodshed and the heroism of demigods could not. That deception succeeded where the wisdom of Nestor failed, and his maturest plans were mocked by a skillful lie. All this is the thrilling development of a contest for the I THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 243 prize of beauty, so insignificant in itself and so foolish. Yet it set Aeneas on his wanderings ; it founded the Roman State; and to that State the world owes most of that which is of value in religion, politics, law, art, and literature. It was only a pebble thrown in the water by a careless hand, but that pebble is the beginning of circles of influence, gliding quickly the one after the other, and spreading till the face of the vast sea is transformed by the turmoil. The shifting fortunes of war and peace, the rise and fall of nations, and the uncertainty of individual achievement were facts with which these men saw that they had to deal, and life became the more intensely interesting to them thereby. Our science is not so ingenious as that of the Greek's. We are not always ready to give as definite a reason for each thing that happens, as they. The storm that rages and dashes the boats against the rocks is not necessarily the divine wrath wreak-ing vengeance for some act of impiety or neglect. Cassandra's wisdom of foresight and prophecy may be the innate quality of a naturally gifted mind, and not the gifts of a divine lover. He who goes through the battle unhurt may never have heard of the invulnerable mail of Vulcan. We do not expect to find some personalty or agency so imme-diately behind every act. It belongs to the child age to imper-sonate the forces and materials about them. Yet, who will deny that there is a great truth at the heart of this childlike simplicity? "Alice and little Dot are sisters, and very fond of each other. So' when Alice went away over the great sea, Dot was very sad and restless and went about, looking in all the corners as if she could find Alice in them. At last she came and said, 'Is Alice gone over the great deep sea ?' Yes, she has gone over the great, deep sea, but she will comeback again some day. Some water poured out in a basin was standing on a chair nearby. Dot ran to it, and got up on a chair, and dashed her hands through the water again and again ; and cried, 'Oh, deep, deep sea ! send little Allie back to me.' " There's a dear little heathen for you. The whole heart of Greek mythology is in that prayer. And how natural and beautiful it all seems. Yes, before the modern nations of Europe and America were born, the paradox of the vast influence of little things was ap-" parent to the ancient peoples. And the fact of the matter is, we ■ I ■ -'■ I I ■ 244 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY cannot escape seeing this paradox if we will but open our eyes to what is every moment going on about us. The little crystal of snow embodies the laws and forces of the universe to the mind that can see it. The filthy mud under his feet has wonderful possibilities in it to the mind of the seer. "When left to itself this mass of mind will cease its anarchy and competition, and will be mud no longer. The clay in it will whiten and crystalize and harden into a beautiful gem, to gather and concentrate the azure blue of the sun's rays, and you call it a sapphire. The sand will gather in rows, wash off its soot, and look real nice and clean. Then if you will just leave it to itself for a little while, it will crystalize into that beautiful drop of the aurora, called opal. The soot under the same law of co-operation loses its blackness, and obtains in exchange the power of reflect-ing all the rays of the sun at once in the most vivid rays any solid can shoot. This we call a diamond. And what is left of the mud ? A drop of water. If you wish it will become a dew-drop, glistening like orient pearl on your favorite flower. Yet, if you insist it will crystalize into a star." And for the ounce of slime—by a single accident—the accident of rest, we have a sap-phire, an opal, and a diamond set in the midst of a star of snow. The mud in the foot-path will always be mud. Why? Be-cause it was placed in a bad environment. An environment in which there is an eternal broil among the members. By a differ-ent chance and a nobler fate, the sand, the clay, the soot, andthe water, in rest and co-operation, reach their true destiny in the opal, the sapphire, the diamond, and the crystal of snow. But the importance of this truth, which we shall call the "significance of the insignificant" is of far greater moment and in-terest in the influence on life, character and conduct; and es-pecially the direction given by it to the great movements of life, which we call history. A great historian begins a chapter on a famous battle by say-ing, "Arietta's pretty feet twinkling in the brook made her the mother of William the Conqueror. Had she not thus fascinated Duke Robert of Normandy, Harold would not have fallen at Hastings. No Anglo-Norman Dynasty could have arisen, no British Empire;" and we may bring it still nearer to our own hearts and say, no English speaking America. What is brought out in this statement? Only the play of ac- THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 245 cident, the effects of which we saw in the mud and the gems. But the idea has gained a new significance, because its objects are no longer stones, but men and women. To state that the quality of blood which flows in the veins of the great English peoples, was determined by the chance view of a peasant girl's pretty feet, dangling from the bank of a brook, or "twinkling in the water," looks like an impious burlesque of serious history. A play of the imagination for effect only. A dramatic situation to set events in a bolder relief. It is none of these, but the statement of a great and eternal truth. "There is no great and no small To the Soul that maketh all." 14fe, with all that word means, is changed by just such chance occurrences. Eed off in a new direction, reaching a different goal, changed eternally by an act, which, at the time, was a mat-ter of indifference. Life is comparable to a busy highway, with opeu doors all along its course. Entering one of these doors quite accidentally one day—only for rest and refreshment—an idea, a purpose, sprang to your mind ; that purpose did not rest till it became an act; the act has long since become a habit ; that habit is a part of your character. You will pardon the digression if I ask the nature of that habit; whether it sets in your character like a beautiful jewel. Is it a jewel beautiful and priceless, of which you are proud ? Does it blend in color and symmetry with the other gems into something exquisitely lovely and precious ? Or is it a coal needing only the torch to destroy it and the others as well? Oh, the power for weal or woe in the little things of life ; in the indifferent thought, word and deed. And what is the testimony of History ? What does its per-spective show to be the turning point in great national and world crises? Some trifling circumstance, the miscarriage of a message, the choice of the wrong path ! These are the small hinges on which turn the immense doors that open into destiny. When the racial domination of Europe and America was the issue of a contest between Carthage and Rome ; and the question of oriental superstition and sloth, or Christian hope and industry was being decided in that questionable balance-war ; it is awful to trace the fortune of a single mission on which hung the decision of the momentous contest. ■■ w 246 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY Hannibal, the prince of generals has carried his arms from the deserts of Africa, over the steep and frozen Alps into the very-heart of Italy. He has not only maintained them there on his own resources, but has won a series of magnificent victories : the battles of Trebia, Thrasymene and Cannae. Rome is reduced to extreme exhaustion and desperation. The flower of her sons has fallen in battle, her treasure is spent, her fields are unsown, her commerce is destroyed. And with all this sacrifice, nothing has been accomplished against her born enemy, the eldest of the "lion's brood." Can you imagine her dismay then, and the terrible realness of the danger, when Hasdrubal, the second of the "lion's brood," a general scarcely inferior to his great brother, appears in Italy with an army of veteran soldiers, trained in the wars of Spain ? The brothers are now within two hundred miles of each other. Should they succeed in forming a juncture of their forces, a terri-ble fate awaits Rome. The necessity of acting in concert with the other Carthaginian army, in the South, is evident. Hasdrubal therefore sends a message to Hannibal, announcing his line of march, and the place where they would unite their armies, to wheel round on Rome. The message traveled in safety the greater part of the distance to Hannibal's camp ; but when near the goal, fell into the hands of a detachment of Roman soldiers, and Hasdrubal's letter, detail-ing the plans of the campaign, was laid, not in his brother's hands, but in the hands of the enemy. The victory so nearly won! a hairsbreadth ! Three thousand miles traveled in safety, only one more to go, then to fall in the hands of the enemy ! Through the failure of a messenger boy to deliver his message, the plans, the toils, the travels of years dashed to the ground ! It is tremendous. Yet, when we look down the vista of the years from our van-tage ground, and see the beneficence of the accident, we marvel not at Hannibal's defeat, but that such beneficence should ap-parently be left to the hazard of a messenger to accomplish its mission. We marvel that so small a thing as a letter discovered on the person of a spy, should be the means for wresting the dominion of the Western World from the Phoenician, and of giv-ing it to one "better fitted to receive and consolidate the civiliza-tion of Greece ; by its laws and institutions to bind together bar- MPHW|Ni«TOWJA**rr THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 247 barians of every race and language into an organized Empire ; and to prepare them, when that Empire is dissolved, to become the free members of the commonwealth of Christian Europe and America." No less striking is the turn of events, when all Europe was convulsed by the ambitions of the modern Hannibal, when institutions and governments were crushed under the colossal stride of him who aspired to the throne of all Europe, and came dangerously near achieving his aspiration. When neither arms nor bloodshed, coalitions, nor council, nor even his island fastness, could tame the restless spirit of Napoleon. The lying words of a peasant boy to a French General, "Go this way and not that," decided Waterloo and Napoleon's fate. The fall of Napoleon, but the liberation of Europe, is in that sentence of the peasant lad. Grouchy was expected and Bliicher came up. Destiny has its turn in the road. A rustic lad is the mouthpiece, or sign-board, if you choose. "The throne of the universe was looked for and St. Helena's islet-prison loomed up !" These are a few instances in which we see the significance of little things, the insignificant, and the way they become the hinges on which the great changes in nature, individual destiny, and the world movements are made to turn. And when we think what these contingencies entail—injury of body and dis-tempers of mind, their influence on charac ter and destiny, the way they make for war and peace—weak and helpless in the face of these uncertainties, we cry in the words of Tennyson : " Are God and Nature then at strife, That Nature lends such evil dreams ? So careful of the type she seems, So careless of the single life ; " That I, considering everywhere Her secret meaning in her deeds, And finding that of fifty seeds She often brings but one to bear, " I falter where I firmly trod, And falling with my weight of cares Upon the great world's altar-stairs That slope through darkness up to God, " I stretch lame hands of faith, and grope, And gather dust and chaff, and call To what I feel is Lord of all, And faintly trustithe larger hope. " 248 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY MASTY JUDGMENTS M. R. HAMPSHER, '04. TVTEBSTER defines a judgment as an act of the mind in com- w paring ideas or examining facts to ascertain the truth. We easily perceive that there can be different methods by which the mind ascertains the truth : by a careful study of the facts, or by a superficial view of them. We also know that a hasty decision is sometimes made necessary by the attendant circumstances ; for instance, in the case of a man in imminent danger of death. But, since hasty judgments are formed on the spur of the moment and without due deliberation, they are usually inaccurate or incorrect and are productive of more harm than good. The evil^effect of hasty judgments may be considered in three aspects : social, in-tellectual and moral. It seems somewhat irrational to make the statement that hasty judgments are an evil in society. Yet they have created discord and confusion in social life. They have been the means of sep-arating good friends; for many times have persons made state-ments concerning the character of their friends which they would not have made after some reflection, and friends have often fallen into controversy over a matter which careful consideration could settle immediately. How careful, then, one should be in express-ing his judgment, in order that he may not cut asunder the bond of friendship ! Again, the hasty distribution of justice is often the cause of discord in government. A rash judgment of a law court creates confusion and establishes unlawful precedents ; and, therefore, national and international relations should be the object of care-fully weighed judgments. All treaties, agreements, etc., should be examined in every detail ; for a single mistake often plunges both nations into a dispute more bitter than before. It is very important then, to take time to consider the question under dis-cussion, before one expresses his judgment of it. The Schley Court of Inquiry furnishes us a good illustration of this statement. Review its proceedings, its investigation of de-tails, one by one, and contemplate the effect, if the inquiry had been conducted in any other way. The intellectual phase of this evil presents itself in the injury to the mind of the man who indulges in it. He becomes careless THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 249 in his habits of thinking; his reasoning power is weakened and his will is under the influence of other men. He gradually grows narrow-minded, and the amount of knowledge he receives is ma-terially lessened. His whole intellectual growth is retarded much more than if he had formed the habit of investigating things and finding their true meaning. If in no other way, however, hasty judgments are morally wrong, both towards God and man. Ever since the great teacher gave the command "Judge not, lest ye be judged," this truth has been evident. We wrong our fellowmau by misjudging the intention of his deeds. Almost all the slanders and gossip that help to injure a man's reputation arise from hasty judgments of his actions. All past history teaches us that such judgment is a moral injury to our neighbor. But we wrong our God, also, when we do not investigate his teachings, and when we pass hasty judgments on certain doctrines and beliefs. Infidelity, the greatest foe to Christianity, wins the most of its adherents through their own hasty and impulsive judgment. The evil of hasty decisions, therefore, is very great, socially, intellectually, and morally. And we should exert our utmost efforts to overcome the habit in ourselves, and to form the habit of expressing our opinion only after a long and careful judgment. HIS TWO GIRLS THE GIRI, HE WANTED. She must be fair as summer skies, With cheeks of crimson gloam, And the light that lies in her starry eyes, Outshine the twinkling- dome. Her lips like roseate bowers must coat The pearly gates of song, And the notes that float from her liquid throat, Must match an angel's tongue. Her locks like silken mist must fall Adown their Albion steep, Her dainty ears smile out through all, Like atolls of the deep. i She must be crowned with fortune's gold, Lead on the social row, Her graces must the blending hold, Of heaven's ethereal bow. I I■ I i 250 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY Her heart, whene'er it leaves its cage To wing- love's fragrant air, Must find in mine its foliage, And nestling, warble there. THE GIRL HE GOT. She is deaf as Egypt's mummied kings, And blind as tawny owls, No song her dry tongue ever sings, No smiles erase her scowls. Her nose stands out, a parrot beak, Her ears they are no pair, Her toothless mouth is sadly weak, And fiery is her hair. Of gold she has no single grain, Of sense no fool's estate. No power has she o'er hearts to reign, Can neither love nor hate. You wonder how it happened thus, 111 fortune's quick decline, I'll tell you friends, the damsel was A comic valentine. —J. B. BAKER. WIT THAT WOUNDS AND WIT THAT CHEERS MAY T. GARLACH, '04. '"PRUE wit, that subtle "flavor of the mind," is just what man *■ needs to bring him out of himself, and add the zest and spice and relish to the life that is apt to be dull and prosy, if taken too seriously. It is, indeed, "the salt" that makes life palatable and keeps it from being stale, flat and unsatisfying. Wit is just the ingredient needed to give the proper seasoning of mirth, cheerfulness and lightness to a life that would otherwise be heavy and sad. But, like every other good thing, wit can be and often is, abused. It is too often used as a lash to wound and hurt and torture. Its cruel scorn and withering contempt are blighting in their effects, and its underlying impulse of hatred and malice makes it doubly disagreeable and hurtful. In this capacity wit is a dangerous weapon. Sydney Smith says: "When wit is combined with sense and information, when softened by benevolence and restrained by THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 251 principle ; when it is in the hands of a man who can use it and despise it, who can be witty and something more than witty, who loves justice, good nature, morality and religion ten thousand times more that wit—wit is then a beautiful and de-lightful part of our nature. Genuine and innocent wit like this is surely the flavor of the mind." And herein lies the secret of true wit. The keen delicate thought that is quick to detect the hidden or absurd connections between remote ideas; the wit that shows the old idea in a new and entirely different light, that creates only pleasant surprise and goodnatured laughter, is truly the wit that charms and cheers. The gentle humor, which is without hostility to anything or anybody, stimulates and amuses by its sprightly life and spicy repartee. Its brightness in making old thoughts new, its keen-ness in criticising without giving offence, its sparkle and flash in illuminating and making sunshine, all minister to man's innate love of fun and laughter and happiness. The irresistible humor that can point out the imperfections and peculiarities of men and at the same time appeal to their sense of the ludicrous, is indeed a boon to over-sensitive mankind. We have examples of this delightful wit in Shakespeare, Dickens, Irving, Lowell and Holmes. Of these each wrote in his own peculiar style, sometimes criticising with sharp sarcasm the follies and frailties of mankind; sometimes delightfully humorous, simply witty in a good-natured way. Their apt power of attributing to their fictitious characters such faults and im-perfections as the reader recognizes to be his own, and their sharp yet ludicrous criticism of these same failings, has a tendency toward good, for while men laugh and are amused, they will yet try to remedy the weaknesses thus pointed out, and which they feel to be their own. On the other hand stands the wit that wounds. Here sarcasm and ridicule hold full sway, and are adepts in the art of wound-ing, while irony stalks, sometimes unattended, sometimes hand in hand with these, its co-workers of pain. Malicious, biting sarcasm puts the knife into its victims heart and twists it, and laughs with fiendish glee. Cruel, relentless ridicule uses the lash of derision, and flays its subject in full sight of the heartless, mocking crowd. Irony, with veiled hatred, hurls its "boome-rang which goes in a different direction from that which it is I 252 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY thrown, and does not strike the one at whom it is seemingly aimed." Truly, in all the world, there are no surer implements for wounding than these three qualities of wit. There is, however, just one field in which their cruelty may serve to good purpose, and that is where they attack the pre-teutions and follies and faults of maukind in general. Here their stinging, biting humor may rouse men to a sense of their weakness, and stimulate them to better action. Considered in its best sense wit is invaluable, since it not only tends toward reforming the manners and customs of the times, and correcting the faults of mankind; but also, by its brightness, sharpness and sparkle brings man out of his prosy self and gives him room for laughter, which, although it is "considered a weakness in the composition of human nature, still it breaks the gloom that is apt to damp the spirits of man, by gleams of mirth, and therefore he should take care not to grow too old for laugh-ter." " Laugh, and the world laughs with you, Weep, and you weep alone. This sad old earth must borrow its mirth, It has trouble enough of its own. " *$&> THE MOST INTERESTING MAN THAT I HAVE KNOWN F. L., '04. '"THREE miles southeast of the town ofW , along the line of ■*■ the H. & B. railroad, a high ridge rises almost precipi-tously from the flood plain of the little Antietam. This ridge, higher than any part of the surrounding country, extends in an unbroken line for mile after mile in a southern direction. Twenty feet above the level of the stream, at the end where the ridge takes its abrupt rise, yawns a black cavern almost large enough for a man to enter without stooping. A short distance within, this passage opens into a large room twenty feet high and forty in width. This subterranean passage, like the ridge in which it lies, extends for mile after mile and has never been explored to the end. Almost directly in front of the mouth of this cave, and on a lower plane, stands (or rather stood, for lam now writing what a boy often years heard and saw) a neat cottage built of limestone. Well do I remember the ivy clinging to its walls, its neatly kept THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 2S3 little lawn with boxwood-bordered walks, and farther on the gar-den where flourished the grandma wonders of the olden time. At the rear of the house was the orchard in a beautifully level, green meadow extending back to the creek and away from the foot of the ridge to a point where a railroad bridge spans the creek. Follow this creek two hundred yards in a northeastern direc-tion, look across a narrow meadow and you see a large farm house, likewise of stone. Here for two brief years, happy, happy days all of them, they now seem, lived my younger brother and I, the privileged sons of an industrious farmer. Those days, with their marvelous experiences, their soul thrills, I shall never for-get. We were at an age when our young souls were just open-ing to nature's wonders, when stories of adventure had a won-drous charm, when from the few books we had read life was ap-pearing superbly grand and beautiful, when imaginations were most active, and when in the overpowering feeling of some moments we tried to blend into one comprehensive whole all we knew of the past, the marvelous wonders of the present, and the vaguely comprehended aspirations for the future, and in such times how the soul did pant and leap and swell till we were more than earth or sky or sea. We had read Scottish Chiefs, Pilgrim's Progress, Robinson Crusoe, and a Child's History of the United States, full of Indian stories. The sorrows, the struggles, the sufferings, the triumphs of the chief characters of these books were made our own, and any strange phase of nature would present one or another to us. How unbearable was the steady, persistent croak, croak of the frogs down by the big spring pool on an April evening, or the chirp, chirp of those nameless crea-tures in the thicket beyond ! Why was it that those sounds so rasped on my soul and filled me with such shuddering ? One summer evening our mother strolled with us along the bank of that ever murmuring Antietam. I dipped my bare feet in the water, a little duck swam by alone, and all at once I was afraid and urged an immediate return across the meadow to the house. What was it that made me afraid, and why do I remember that? And I remember how the moonlight used to come down on the fog along the creek between our house and the high ridge oppo-site. What that put into my soul I cannot describe nor will I ever forget. And so the nights were strange, weird, mysterious,something 1 254 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY of another world. But the days how different, how rich, how full! That shallow stream was our Mississippi, that bit of thicket the endless forest, the timid rabbit, the fleet deer. With bows and arrows of our own handicraft we hunted him, or climbed the hills and stormed the fortresses of Scotland. Following down that bit of forest we met with all the adventures of Crusoe on his island, or skirmished with Indians hidden behind trees and stumps. Our wanderings in this direction brought us to the rail-road, and beyond we saw the stone cottage. But little we knew of it yet. In May, 1889, came the memorable Johnstown flood. Our little stream was swollen beyond its banks, and all night long it surged, and groaned, and roared down by the bridge. When the waters subsided, it was found that the bridge had been weakened and a new one was ordered built in itsstead. The workmen came, and many an afternoon we watched them digging out for the foundation, and swinging the ponderous stones in place. But more than this we saw. Below the bridge, the flood had cut away the left bank of the stream, and the water had overflowed the orchard meadow, carrying away the top soil and leaving the surface covered with sandstones. Here we saw an old man at work day after day, carrying the stones from his meadow and with them building a high new bank for the creek. We gradually made his acquaintance, and, children-like, gave proof of our de-sire to be friends by helping him in his work. The physical appearance of the man had caught our eyes at the very first. Still tall and broad-shouldered, though now some-what stooped, he gave evidence of having been a powerful man in his day. He was quite active for his age, being then as he told us in his ninety-first year. He had personal recollections of three wars, being a boy in 1812, and having served as a private in the Mexican war and as a corporal in the Civil war. This was enough to make him a hero in our sight. So we visited him from day to day. He took us with him to the cottage sometimes, and we learned that its only other inmate was a spinster daughter, who seemed nearly as old as himself. Sometimes we sat with him in the shade, back of the house by the little spring, whose waters we drank from a cocoanut shell. At such times what conversations we had ! For us he was an oracle. What questions we asked him about his life and experi- THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 255 ences, about this spring, that stream, that hill, about the Indians who once drank where we did then, about the thousand other things which the imaginations of boys of that age will suggest! He answered us with all patience. In fact he seemed to enjoy our prattle. For us life lay beyond with all its sunshine and promise. It was an ideal world and we longed for a fuller knowl-edge of it. For him life was a thing of the past. He had with-drawn from the interests and conflicts of the world. So neither he nor we were in the great whirl of life, and though we were at its opposite barriers, still we felt that we stood on common ground. He certainly felt this, or why would he have chatted with us so long and so pleasantly ? The memories of his own life were streaming down to him across the years, some sad, some happy, and so he strove to have us know what was good and noble and brave in life. In our simple way, he made us feel the great basal principles of manliness. The man, the time, the circumstances were so blended that those lessons can never pass from my memory. Once or twice we climbed the hill together to the great dark cave. On a smooth stone at its entrance were cut the names with dates of its earliest visitors. One I remember was 1775. That carried us back to the Revolution when, as we thought, all men were good and brave. The Indian legends counected with the cave had come down through the earliest settlers in that com-munity to our old friend as a boy, and now he related them to us. How we wondered at their strangeness ! How our hearts leaped as he told of the brave deeds of war performed there by the forest children. How we listened with bated breath as he told us how the pale faces had been tortured in this place. But he did not frighten us. He tempered the stories to our years, and made us rejoice in the better times in which we lived. Still, I remember, how we stood one quiet afternoon in October at the mouth of that cave. We looked down at the trees scattered along the stream and in the bit of woods yonder. The sun, just one hour high, was touching their drapery into gold, and flashing from the rip-ples in the creek. Then all my soul welled up in me. Life was offering such grand possibilities, and I was longing for the time to take advantage of its opportunities. And turning to the old man, whose face was turned pensively toward the sinking sun, I felt that somehow he was causing these impulses in me. 256 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY One evening in November we went with our father to spend an hour with this friend by his fireside. It was one of those stormy, blustering days heralding the advent of winter, and this evening a wood fire blazed on the hearth as the custom was in that house. He and father talked on various subjects for a time. The fire gradually died down, suffusing a soft mild light through the room. His interest began to flag in matters of neighborhood concern, his face took on a more sweetly pensive expression, and he looked at brother and me sitting at his feet in a manner that was all tenderness. Then he told us of other happenings spent around that hearth in the long ago, and, for the first time, of the two little boys long since lost, whose places we seemed to be filling that night, and of the mother whose headstone we hadseen in the burying ground on the next farm. Finally he ceased, the fire burned lower still, but no one dared speak, for we felt that the place was sacred with the presence of the long-departed. At length we rose to go, and "goodnight" was said in a reverent hush. As we crossed the meadow path, what thoughts came into my mind ! How strange life seemed ! What is death ? Why do some live so long, and others die so early ? These are scattered reminiscences of a man intensely interest-ing to me then, and one whom I shall never forget. What makes him so interesting and so long remembered ? I cannottell unless it be because he came into my life at such an impressionable time, bringing the very things which keen perceptions and an active imagination were ready to lay hold of. \ DVICE is a good thing, but it will always be something of a **■ nuisance until the givers of it accept responsibility for the bad as readily as they take credit for the good. —Saturday Evening Post. Christian faith is a grand cathedral, with divinely pictured windows. Standing without you see no glory, nor can possibly imagine any; standing within, every ray of light reveals a harmony of unspeakable splendors. —Ha-wthorne, THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY Entered at the PosioJJlce at Gettysburg as second-class matter Voi,. X GETTYSBURG, PA., FEBRUARY, 1902 No. 8 E. C. RUBY, '02, Editor-in- Chief R. ST. CUAIR POFFENBARGER,' 02, Business Manager J. F. NEWMAN, '02, Exchange Editor Advisory Board TROF. J. A. HIMES, A. M., LIT. D. PROF. G. D. STAHLEY, M. D. PROF. J. W. RICHARD, D. D. Assistant Business Manager CURTIS E. COOK, '03 Assistant Editors Miss ANNIE M. SWARTZ, '02 A. B. RICHARD, '02 Published each month, from October to June inclusive, by the joint literary societies of Pennsylvania (Gettysburg) College. Subscription price. One Dollar a year in advance; single copies Fifteen Cents. Notice to discontinue sending- the MERCURY to any address must be accompanied by all arrearages. Students, Professors, and Alumni are cordially invited to contribute. All subscriptions and business matter should be addressed to the Business Manager. Articles for publication should be addressed to the Editor. Address THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY, GETTYSBURG, PA. EDITORIALS "VVTITH this issue of the Mercury we complete its tenth volume " and shift the duties and responsibilities belonging to the publishing and editing of the same upon the shoulders of our successors. We would bespeak for them a successful year. The journal is in excellent condition financially, and, as far as we were able, we tried to maintain its literary position. There is plenty of room for improvement and no doubt we shall see some of this improvement before another year shall have passed by. Among the first of these improvements which we are sure the editorial staff will heartily favor ought to be a greater liberality on the part of the student body in furnishing material for the journal. This step could not help but encourage the staff iu making other improvements. That this suggestion may not be in vain is the wish of the retiring staff. "Heaven helps those who help themselves," is an old proverb, truer than most proverbs are. No race, no nation, no tribe has ever been civilized by the mere outside application of ■ I■ ■ Im 258 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY the forms of civilized life. No amount of philanthropy has done more than make a miserable loafer of the American Indian, who seems less capable than most other races of taking into his soul the minor virtues of Christian culture. And so no man has ever risen to eminence except by his own efforts, while too many have fallen short of greatness, or of what is better, usefulness, merely by the superabundance of means at their command. " The right man in the right place" is not such an accident as most good-natured people suppose, but the legitimate result of perseverance, energy of purpose, patience, courage, and self-control, applied in the proper direction, or, indeed, in any direction, one might say; for the man who has these qualities is pretty sure to work himself out of the woods somewhere. It is not the man who cries lustily to Hercules that gets out of the mire, but he who puts his shoulder to the wheel and does not fear to soil his Sunday clothes—in fact, perhaps, has no Sunday clothes. RESOLUTIONS BY PHILO SOCIETY. "Death touched him and he slept." The merciful angel of death has taken from Philo society a much esteemed member, Paul Cover ; therefore be it Resolved, That, as in him we have lost a most faithful member, our devotion to the society may be strengthened by his example. That we emulate his modest disposition and gentlemanly character. That we as a society express our appreciation of his life and services by extending to the bereaved family our sincere sym-pathy. That a copy of these resolutions be recorded on the minutes of the society and published in the college and town papers. HAROLD S. L,EWARS, FRANK LAYMAN, WILBUR H. FLECK, Committee. RESOLUTIONS OF RESPECT BY THE CLASS. WHEREAS, It has pleased Almighty God in his infinite wis-dom to call from our midst to his home on high, Paul Homer THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 259 Cover, whom we have always regarded with the utmost esteem as a classmate and student. Therefore, at a meeting of the class of '05, Pennsylvania Col-lege, January 7, 1902, be it unanimously Resolved, That by the will of God one of the most worthy members of our class has been removed, whom we always knew as being upright and noble in character, faithful in his studies and Christian duties, whose pleasant disposition gained for him many friends during his short career at college ; and also Resolved, Although our class has been saddened by the un-timely death of a fellow-student at the beginning of our college course, we humbly submit to the will of God, believing that he in his mysterious ways doth all things well ; be it further Resolved, That we extend our heartfelt sympathies to the af-flicted family, and that we implore God's blessing upon them in their dark hour of trouble, and also Resolved, That a copy of these resolutions be sent to the sor-rowing family, and to the college journals and town papers. CHARLES W. HEATHCOTE, HARRY R. RICE, BENDER Z. CASHMAN, Committee. THE RECORD OF A NOTABLE YEAR TNTJRING the year just closed the two greatest nations of the *~* world changed rulers. Queen Victoria died at 6:30 P. M., January 22, and the Prince of Wales became king, with the title of Edward VII. On the sixth of September Leon Czolgosz twice shot President William McKinley, and the victim lingered until 2:15 o'clock, Saturday morning, September 14. The afternoon of the same day Vice-President Theodore Roosevelt took the oath of office. The Ameer of Afghanistan died on October 3, and five other deaths notable in the politics of the world were those of Ex- President Benjamin Harrison on March 13 ; Hoshi Toru, Japa-nese statesman, assassinated June 21 ; Prince von Hohenlohe, who died on July 6 ; Signor Crispi on August 11, and L,i Hung Chang on November 6. The war in South Africa dragged along at an expense to the British of millions a week. So far the cost is about a billion dol- I I 260 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY lars, and the English losses in men have been about 20,000. In the Philippines Aguinaldo was captured by the brilliant Funston, and the effort was made to inaugurate civil government in the islands, but the pacification is by no means complete, and the year ended with fears of a general uprising, and with a message from General Chaffee that he would need all his 60,000 soldiers for twelve months or more to come. Matters improved in Cuba, and a President will be elected on the twenty-fourth of February next. The Powers withdrew from China and the Court began its return to Peking. In our national affairs important progress was made. The re-apportionment based on the census of 1900 increased the mem-bership of the House of Representatives to 386. The army can-teen was abolished. The centennial anniversary of the elevation of John Marshall to the head of the Supreme Court was celebrated. The count of the electoral votes gave McKinley and Roosevelt 292 each, Bryan and Stevenson 155 each. The most important de-cision of the Supreme Court concerned our relations with our new possessions. By narrow majorities it was held that the Constitu-tion follows the flag, subject to the action and regulation of Con-gress. This led to special legislation for Porto Rico and for the Philippines. President Roosevelt urged reciprocity with Cuba. The various reciprocity treaties which have been hanging fire for more than a year are still unacted upon. The Pan-American Congress in the City of Mexico was a social success and a politi-cal failure. The great international fact of the year was the Hay- Pauucefote treaty, by which Great Britain allowed to this country the right to go ahead and build the Isthmian canal. The treaty was ratified by an overwhelming vote. —Saturday Eve?ii?ig Post. CAUSES OF THE DECLINE OF POETRY JOHN A. MAUGHT, '04. TN the treatment of this subject it may be well first to state what •*■ I believe poetry to be, and especially poetry such as this subject requires. True poetry is the concrete and artistic ex-pression of the human mind in emotional and rhythmeticai language. If all verse, which bases its right to be called poetry merely upon its rhythm and rhyme, should be adjudged as such, my THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 261 conviction that poetry is upon the decline could not exist, since, at the present time there is nolack of attempts at poetizing, which accomplish only what is least essential in poetry, namely rhyme. Poetry as it shall be considered here is that lofty and sublime language which carries with it universal truth and convictions. The cause for the decline of poetry may be classified under four heads, ist. The present manner of living. 2nd. The absence of an inspiring cause. 3rd. The literature of a nation is first made manifest in poetry and for that reason less attention is given to poetry after prose is introduced. 4th. The present preference of brevity and clearness to beauty and style. First, I shall try to show what is meant by the present manner of living. The growing inclination to mass in cities and towns is disadvantageous to poetic thought and passion, for what pro-duction of any consequence, either of poetry or of prose, was ever composed amid the unceasing noise and bustle of a city ? Poetic passion to materialize most needs quiet and repose. Again, men are engaged in too persistent a chase after wealth to allow themselves to be inspired either by the beauties of nature or by the embellishments of daily life. In time past, dating from the founding of Rome to the dis-covery of America, men were content with sufficient wealth to comfortably maintain life, whereas to-day opulence is apparently the highest ambition. Has a true poet ever lived who was avaricious? The absence of an inspiring cause shall next be considered. In order to produce poetry the soul must for the time being have reached that state of exultation, that state of freedom from self-consciousness, which is most beautifully por-trayed in the following quotation from Tennyson : "I started once, or seemed to start, in pain, Resolved on noble things, and strove to speak As when a great thought strikes along the brain And flushes all the cheek. " Into this mood the poet must always pass before he can write a truly poetic line. But in order that this mood may exist must there not be first a cause ? Paradise Lost, that famous epic of Milton, would never have been written had it not been for the English Revolution. If Dante had not been banished from Florence by the relentless Charles of Valois his memory would never have been perpetuated by the Inferno. We now come to I wMiiMiwiiMfflinn 262 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY the third head. Since the literature of a nation is first manifested through poetry, as the language grows older its style changes from that of a purely poetic strain to a more matter-of-fact way of expression. The literature of France was first introduced by the Trouleadours and Trouviurs, the poets of Southern and Northern France. But after fifty years prose began to share the literature with poetry and from that period dates the preference for prose in France. And so it has been in the case of the literature of ancient Greece and Rome, Arabia, China, Germany, and of other nations needless to mention. The fourth and last reason now confronts us—the now prevalent preference of brevity and clearness to beauty and style. In this the 20th century a composition accurate in detail and replete with poetic sentiment is not desired nor is it greatly appreciated. This lack of preference for lofty composition may be attributed to two causes. 1st. The great popularity of the newspaper. 2nd. In this age of activity men have not time to read a detailed and difficultly comprehended article when a clearer and more concise style may be had. And in conclusion, I may say that as the world advances in years, poetry, like a time-worn structure, shall eventually pass into oblivion. THE CROWNING EVENT CHARLES W. HEATHCOTE, 'OS. 'THE crowning event or turning point comes earlier or later in *■ every man's life. Will he be ready to meet it as did Christ? Or will he succumb to his baser passions as did Mohammed ? A man's morals is one of the essential things which lead up to the crowning event. There have been very many men who have gained power in various countries ; but their morals have been very base. Too often the morals are overlooked. It is a shame that such a man who has gained power is considered to be smart, the people therefore overlook his morals. He must have the stamp of honesty and purity in his face. Benedict Arnold, the traitor, had no stamp of honesty about him. Suppose Arnold had been allowed to go on with his schemings, he would have succeeded. Then the weak minded would have apologized for him and said, "Oh, suppose he was dishonest and tricky, he suc-ceeded." Strong will power and moral courage is needed not to 1 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 263 succumb to the weaker passions. The theorists tell us that Christianity is good to keep up the nation in morals. The people themselves are required to do this by having strong will power and not yielding to dishonest passions. For a man to succeed in life it is essential that he should have a stable character. Character is not formed in a day. It is formed day by day as we grow. The crown of life is character. Charac-ter is nature in the highest form. There is no use to ape it. True, a young man in forming his character does meet with obstacles, temptations and discouragements ; but with a strong will power he can overcome them- Each battle will make him stronger. He will be able to develop a character without suspicion or reproach. A character that will be an example for others. When the turn-ing point does come he will be ready to meet the storm calmly. Energy is the secret of success. Energy exerted in the proper sphere becomes a second nature or habit. Mr. James, in his Psychology, says, "Let no youth have any anxiety about the up-shot of his education, whatever the line of it may be. If he keep faithfully busy each hour of the day, he may safely leave the final result to itself." Be full of enthusiasm and ardour in whatever you may under-take to do. 'Are you in earnest ? Seize this very minute ; What you can do, or dream you can, begin it! Boldness has genius, power, magic, in it ! Only engage and the mind grows heated ; Begin it, and the work will be completed.' The one thing mankind mostly desires is action of some kind, something which has life in it; and the more mankind receives, the more their pleasure and satisfaction. For a number of men are dull and weary. Think out some rich thought and commu-nicate it to mankind. We are born to communicate ourselves to our fellow mortals. Above all let there be no delay in beginning, no more dreaming. The value ofself confidence is also necessary in going on toward the crowning event. Many a young student has failed because he lacked tenacity and persistency. They decide that luck or fate is against them, and that it is of no use to try further. Outside of character itself, there is no loss so great as that of self-confi-dence ; for when this is gone, there is nothing to build upon. It 264 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY is impossible for a man to stand erect without a backbone, es-pecially when he has much weight to carry. Nothing can keep a man down when he has grit and determination. Self confidence makes men gods, whose wills must be obeyed. The victor who wins life's battles wears the air of a conqueror. His manner, gait, and voice show that he is a conqueror. It is vivifying. It makes the weaker assume a stronger role of self-confidence. The crowning event came to Christ's life when he was tempted by Satan. As a man he met the temptations. His morals, pure-ness of life, character, determination and self-confidence had so implanted themselves in his life, that he was able to meet the storm calmly. At that moment he flung the power of the world from him. Mohammed on the other hand after the "Heigira" found that he had the balance of power in his hand. This was the turning point of his life. Previous to the "Heigira" he was content to preach his religion peaceably ; now he determined to spread it with fire and sword. Mohammed was willing to suc-cumb to his baser passions, to satisfy his own selfish desires at the cost of Arabia. Christ did not forget his mission on earth. Therefore the pureness of his life shines out. The crowning event generally comes to a college man after he has graduated from college. Then is when he must make his de-cision. How quickly an undecided, vascillating man communi-cates his uncertainty and vascillation to those about him. Every-one who comes in contact with him, unless he is well poised, catches the disease ; it is as contagious as small-pox. Everything about him drags, the whole atmosphere is loaded with indecision. A young man as he starts out on life's journey should always keep his ideal in sight. He starts out fresh from college, his mind charged with fine ideals and expectations. He is not out long before his lofty sentiments give way to the pursuit of wealth or position. If one will only read, for a few moments each day, one of the great masterpieces of literature, he will be able to keep his ideal before him. The more Christ is patterned as an ideal the more that ideal will be able to be realized. To live an ideal life is to associate with pure and noble souls. The potent personality of our divine Master draws us to follow him as an ideal. Christ believed in an ideal life and strove to in-culcate that ideal in man. A man's ideal is his guiding star. All those who struggle are able to reach their ideal. THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 265 As to failure the less we think of it, the better. In thinking of failure, men lose the power of action. They will not work with the same view. Whatever they do, the shadow of failure shrouds them. Their ardour is gone. True our work does often seem to fail; and the world cries out, "He is defeated ; he saved others, himself he cannot save." These were the same words the crowds hurled at Christ when he was crucified. But Jesus, who lost himself in his work, knew that he had not failed. "I have finished the work.': "Consummatum est," he cried. It was the cry of triumph. In the end when we lay down the work assigned us we also can say as did the Christ. MONEY ROBERT W. LENKER, '03. TWJONEY is the most important factor of the world's activity. ■*■*■*• It is the boy's essential to procure his spinning top or sail-ing kite. It is the power that connects Continents with Suez Canals, and spans oceans with cables, tunnels mountains, and sends through their bowels speeding trains of human freight. It has annihilated space and brought Nations together in speaking distance. It has wrested from nature the wings of lightning. It has conjured into wedlock Niagara's waters and electric fire. Money is the food that sustains the world's commerce, whether the purchase of the feathers in a lady's hat or a line of railroads or ocean steamers, the one gives satisfaction to pride, the other to the millionaire's greed. Both are led by the same impulse which phrenologists call the organ of acquisitiveness, and which we possess respectively in a higher or lower degree. Cultivated by benevolent motives, it sends messengers on wings of healing and charity, perverted, it goads the criminal to murder, and a Judas Iscariot to betray his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Money is the synonym for the possession of the good things of the world, for it will procure them. Persons may preach of the discipline and advantage of poverty, but, practically, men will not listen to the arguments against the pursuit of silver or gold, when they are out at the elbows, and their children are crying for raiment and food. Lord Bacon says "Believe not them that seem to despise riches, for they despise them who despair of 266 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY them." Who has ever seen a scowl upon the minister's face on a Sunday morning when he found a twenty dollar gold piece in the contribution box ? Who has ever known any one to do violence the universal craving for the good things of the earth, and refuse an unexpected windfall by the death of a rich old uncle or aunt ? Men will make any sacrifice for money. For it they will delve in the deep and dangerous mines of the earth, work at un-healthful labor, making matches or powder. The galleons of Spain ploughed the stormy ocean in search of gold. Not so much the love and teaching of the cross led Cortez to murder the rulers of the Montezumas, and Pizarro the Incas of Peru ,as the lust for gold. A problematical silver or gold mine, of supposed fab-ulous wealth and magnificetit distance, has many a time been the key which unlocked the hoarded savings to sink them in the stocks of the bogus mines. Likely there is danger in loving money too much. The love of money has seared or hardened the soul of the rich man, it has caused the giddy wife to leave her husband, it has filled the land with thousands of rum-holes, which fill our poorhouses and jails with paupers and criminals, and burden us with taxes. But the love of money is not the root of all evils. There are many other evils that do not radiate from a silver or golden stump or tree. The use of money and the possession of riches may in themselves be all right, while their abuse may be all wrong. Solomon, Abraham and Job did not lose their favor in the sight of the Lord on account of their riches, but on the contrary, they were ap-proved of. No one seeks poverty from choice, as the dangers of poverty are manifold greater than the dangers of riches. When one lacks the luxuries, yes, the necessaries of life, and is exposed to want, sickness, and disease, discouragement and despondency, he is in no condition to exercise the highest function of mind and soul. It is true that the ennobling virtues are sometimes practiced in spite of poverty, but not because of it. Job was an exception, but his faithful wife could not bear the pressure of affliction and wanted her husband to curse the Lord. The girl that makes shirts for six cents apiece and lives in a garret, and the boy without work, money or home, are driven to temptations of which the rich know nothing. The philosophy which teaches a contempt for money is not very deep. We THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 267 should all seek to lay up something for old age, and keep us from want in sickness and out of the poorhouse. It is true that the Saviour taught his followers not to be over anxious about to-morrow, but like many of his sayings, this teaching was prompted by local influences and surroundings. This was the case in the genial clime of Jordan, where the earth brought forth food spontaneously and required little effort from man. The want of money is the stimulant to our work and the appetizer to the business nerve. It is that which gives stimulus to ingenuity, invention, intellect and ambition. It is this want of money and the constant struggle for it that keeps society and the world in equilibrium. L,et each one have a few dollars more than he is sure he needs for a life time, and anarchy would follow. His effort of mind and brain would be spasmodic. The very labor a man has to put forth to obtain money brings out his self denial, economy, energy, tact, it is his education. It will bring out his practical qualities as well as his mental and moral qualities. A writer has said "The soul is trained by the ledger as much as by calculus and gets exercise in the account of sales as in the account of the stars." The provident man must of necessity be a thoughttul man; living as he does not for the present but for the future. Knowledge is power, but it is not all power. Money is power. It brings comfort, it brings influence, sometimes unworthy influence. Shakespeare says "The learned pate ducks at the golden fool." With many the intellectual pigmy becomes a giant of influence. In our country the only title seems to be based upon greenbacks, and the young dude who is still struggling with his embryo side whiskers beneath his ears and a few millions to his name, is con-sidered the catch of the season, while some of our millionaires' daughters sell themselves to the scrofulous owners of foreign titles. The love of money and the abuse of wealth have their evils, but the present age is blest witii great opportunities and enjoy-ments. Science has done much for the luxuries and comforts of the working class and those of moderate circumstances. Money is the magicians' wand which places at their disposal the means of cultivation and refinement. It means gas, electric light, and cheap travel. It means warm, well ventilated, 1 ■I I 268 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY \ commodious houses, filled with pictures, aud music, and books. It helps to make the home the earthly heaven of the family. Money sends our ships to bring to the washer woman's table the teas of China, and the fruits of southern climes. From sunny Italy it brings the costly fibre from the silk worm's looms to clothe our factory girls in silken garments. It gives us choice seats in the cars and lecture rooms. It comforts us in sickness and necessary idleness. The want of it produces cheerless and comfortless homes, haggard and pinched features, distressed looks and pale cheeks such as may be seen any day in our great cities. What causes this difference in worldly condition ? On the one hand men are endowed by nature with the instinct of making money and how to save it. Their dollars come regularly and multiply rapidly, by shrewd bargains, and judicious invest-ments. They would be untrue to their gift of nature if they did not accumulate money, for the talent and inclination to make money, is as strongly worked and uncontrollable in them as the power and desire of Beethoven and Mozart to produce the beautiful symphonies, and that which led Phidias and Michael Angelo to bring forth their immortal statues of marble and of gold. The mission of each is pointed out by the faculties which the Creator has given him. Hugh Miller, though a poor boy, while playing truant in the caves on the coast of Scotland, received his inspiration from the surrounding rocks, and revealed their history in his grand works. So our Peabodys, Pordees and Girards followed only the promptings and guidings of their nature; and to do violence to them by turning away, would be wrong. Their accumulations have left rich blessings in hospitals, colleges, and railways to make thousands happy. It does not necessarily follow that a millionaire should dwarf his spiritual nature and turn his brain into a ledger and his heart into a millstone; if he does he perverts his gifts. The owner of capital often reaps the least reward of it and it often gives as much power or pleasure. He can occupy only one house at a time, each member of his family but one seat in cars, or theatre, or church. He can eat, drink and wear only a man's portion of the good things of the world. To be healthy he must eat like a poor man. If he eats more than a man's portion, he will have a perverted aud dis-tended stomach, conjested liver, and sleepless nights. Stephen IHE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 269 Girard wrote to a friend "As to myself I like to live like a galley slave, constantly occupied, and often passing the nights without sleeping. I am wrapped up in a labyrinth of affairs and worn out with cares. The love of labor is my highest motive. I work during the day so that I can sleep soundly at night." No one should worship the golden calf or mortgage his soul to mammon. The love of gold has starved every other affection. Let us then get the true estimate of money. Let us neither love it nor despise it. We should earn a little more than we spend. We should avoid debt. The class that toil the hardest spend most recklessly the money they earn. The man that spends twenty cents a day for beer and tobacco spends that, which with its compound interest, in fifty years would amount to twenty thousand dollars. Some say that is a long time ; but many men live to be seventy-five, and they can begin to save long before they are twenty-five. It is not so much what one earns as what he saves that brings comfort. Every man should acquire the habit of saving. We may practice economy without being miserly; God himself does not waste. Every atom that He created still exists. He does not destroy, but only changes. Herculaneum and Pompeii were not destroyed ; they were only buried. Ice melts into water, water is made into steam, and one has as much matter as the other. "Go and gather the frag-ments" said the divine teacher, after the feast on loaves and fishes. The autumn leaves have fallen for centuries to enrich the soil. The bodies of the dead fatten the wheat fields of Gettysburg and Antietam. Nature knows no waste, she saves every action. Let us do likewise. We have no right to enjoy that for which we do not pay. Many a youth blows away his brain and prospective manhood in cigarette smoke, while he rides an unpaid or installment bicycle—better walk. To drink unpaid beer or champagne is the act of a cheat. To sing loud hymns, and repeat loud prayers from an unpaid pew, is the act of a hypocrite. Let us resolve to be in no man's debt, to earn all we can and spend it in the way it was intended by the one who put coal into our mountains, diamonds into our rivers, and gold into our rocks. ■ I I 270 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY THE GAINS AND LOSSES FROM A TERRITORIAL DIVISION OF LABOR rx IVISION of labor as applied to tbe individuals in a communi- *-* ty is a principle which greatly increases the productive capa-bility of that community, ist. By shortening the term of ap-prenticeship. 2nd. By developing dexterity on the part of the laborer. 3rd. By obviating the loss of time and the distraction of thought which would be involved in passing from place to place and exchanging tools. 4th. By facilitating invention and leading to the discovery of improved processes and new material. 5th. By giving employment to women and children and partially disabled men. 6th. By placing the most efficient men in such an order where they can labor to the best advantage. These gains, however, are not secured without any losses. There is a degradation of the laborer, who, by the repetition of one single movement, which is as simplified as possible, is reduced to play a purely mechanical part. Indeed, as soon as the work has been so simplified as to become mechanical, it will not be long before the workman is replaced by a machine. There is also an extreme dependence of the workman who is incapable of doing anything except the fixed and special operation to which he has become accustomed. In an organized society where division of labor is firmly established, man becomes so dependent upon his fellows that if he is separated from them, it is almost impossible for him to live. But serious as these losses may seem theoretically, they are practically of little consequence when compared with the great gains in production in the community where the principle of division of labor is fully carried out. Since this principle is so advantageous to the productive capability of a single community, many are disposed to think that by analogy the same principle will apply equally as well to communities and nations, or in other words, that territorial division of labor would be just as advantageous in the same proportion. This idea can be accepted or rejected only by comparing its gains with its losses when thus extended. So then let us consider what the gains and losses to the economic world would be by extending the principle to communities and nations. When the principle of division of labor is extended to different communities in the same nation it must assume a some- THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 271 what different form. We can no longer speak of divisions in one industry into individual laborers, but of division into industries, and of these as occupying their places so as to bring about the most efficient and economical productiveness. This form of division in a single nation certainly has some advantages which must not be overlooked. There are very few nations which do not have within their boundaries sections which are peculiarly adapted to certain industries. It may be that the mineral resources are in one section, the best physical conditions necessary for agriculture in another, the greatest economical advantages for manufacturing in another, and thus these in-dustries can be carried on in their respective sections with far greater gains in the productiveness of the nation than if they were all equally distributed throughout each community. The people in each section as a group will become more and more efficient in their work and thus increase the produce and in all probability lower the price of that product There are also gains arising from the production of the various commodities on a larger scale where the entire group of laborers can be em-ployed in those places of greatest advantage. Thus we see that the gains from a division of labor among communities are some-what similar to those obtained from a division in a single industry. Now let us see whether the losses under this extension of the principle are in the same proportion. It would hardly be fair to speak of groups of individuals as becoming degraded because they are engaged in the same industry all their lifetime, nor as being in danger of displacement by machinery, for it would mean the degradation or displacement of the industry itself. But when we come to the question of dependence upon others we find that there would be a very serious loss, if the principle were strictly enforced. Those who engage in one industry exclusively become dependent upon all the other industries in at least two ways, ist. For the sale of their own product in excess of their own consumption. 2nd. For the purchase of the commodities produced by the other industries. For the bringing about of these transactions to the greatest advantage there must be a market as close as possible. The nearer this market the greater the economy. This fact has caused the various industries to group themselves together as closely as possible. Hence we find nearly all the industries sometimes confined within a very 272 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY small circle. Of course, this loss from inconvenience to market is gradually becoming less on account of the increasing facilities for transportation and the national security in the freedom of exchange carried on between different sections of the same nation. Another loss might arise from the fact that many small sections would remain undeveloped because the industry could not be profitably carried on there and those people who have preferences in employment would crowd certain localities and exhaust them in a shorter time and thereby endanger the existence of that particular industry. Take for instance coal mining. If the smaller and less profitable mines were allowed to remain un-worked until the larger ones were exhausted it is hardly likely that the same industry would be continued. In such a case how would it effect those who are dependent upon this industry ? In the case of some of the other industries the dependents may also be seriously affected by local calamities. Thus we see that the proportion between the gains and losses is changing as the principle of division of labor is extended to communities. In-deed, the gains and losses under this extension of the principle are approaching each other very closely. It now remains to be seen whether they continue to approach or begin to diverge when the same principle is extended beyond the limits of a nation. That there would not be some gains in a further extension of the principle of division of labor so as to include nations no one attempts to prove. For if we consider the fact that there is a great difference between the efficiency in workmanship in different kinds of work among the different nations we must admit that there would be a gain in the production of wealth if labor were so divided as to place these different nations in their proper workshops. Then again, there are some nations which have better physical conditions for production of a certain kind. In fact nearly all the gains which are secured in the consecutive division of labor in a single industry or the contemporaneous division in a nation can be attributed to a national division. But since the division is not as complete in the last instance the sum of the gains will not be in the same proportion. These gains would all depend upon a strict adherence to theoretical rather than actual conditions. If the natural agents and physical conditions were all so distributed upon the earth as to have definite boundary lines coincident with the national boundary THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 273 lines the proportion existing between the gains and losses in a single industry would still be slightly different from that under these conditions, because of the necessary separation from all marketSj This fact is serious enough under the existing circum-stances. As it is many misunderstandings arise between the manufacturer and the consumer so that the production of wealth is often retarded because of a failure to supply the demand at the proper time. If the consumers of the world would be dependent upon one nation for some particular commodity it would mean a very expensive commodity to those nations farther away, and besides, that nation may be engaged in the production of commodities which are of a relatively greater value and necessity. Thus even under a freedom of trade in exchange the great difference in the kinds of products would cause nations to discriminate in their exchange and so bring the nation which might be engaged in the production of luxuries to ruin. The prices of some commodities would be higher because of the necessity of transporting the raw material from a country where it can be produced best to the country where it can be best turned into manufactured goods. Would it not also destroy the com-petition between nations, a factor in the production of wealth which holds a very important relation ? Without the action of competition the productive capabilities of the nation will not reach its highest degree. This would result in very great loss when the spirit of indifference would exist in all the industries. Continuing the figure of the two lines approaching each other, I would express my conclusions by saying that these lines keep on approaching each other as the principle of the division of labor is extended until they intersect at a very short distance beyond the boundary line of a nation and after the intersection we find that the gains and losses have entirely exchanged places. EXCHANGES TN reply to a query in a recent edition of the Georgetown College *■ Journal, we wish to state that after duly examining the records we find that Messrs. Pope, Dryden and Byron have not matricu-lated at this institution ; neither could we discover that any of our students have ever made a reputation by asking impertinent questions. r:^mmmmmimmmmi 274 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY The Amulet, of West Chester Normal School, is a welcome addition to our exchange list. The Lesbian Herald continues to hold its position among the best magazines which visits our table. We are highly pleased with the Christmas number of the Kee MarJournal. It will always find a welcome place on our desk. J* It is unfortunate when a young man or a young woman has ambitions far beyond his or her powers of achievements. It is a fortunate day in our lives when we can recognize our limitations and we are doubly fortunate if we are able to abide cheerfully by the consequences of this discovery. There is sometimes some-thing fine and heroic in the giving up of one's high aspirations because it has been made clear that they are beyond one's power of achievement. Ambition without ability and intelligence, with-out force of character, has been the ruin of young men who had not the good sense, nor yet the good grace, to recognize their limitations and abide by them. —The Midland. THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A LETTER FROM MY SWEETHEART 30METIMES I get the blues, and in life all interest lose, And all the world seems somehow going wrong ; But the postman comes around, and my heart gives one great bound When he says "Will, here's a—" something just in season. Oh, there's nothing like a letter from my sweetheart. How I wish that I might get one every day ; For there's nothing sweeter, better, than just to get a letter From my sweetheart far away. And now I sing some song, or whistle all day long, How swiftly now the moments slip away ; Now my heart again is light, and everything's as bright, I've a letter from my sweetheart, that's the reason, Oh, there's nothing like a letter from your sweetheart, Don't you wish that you might get one every day ; For there's nothing sweeter, better, than just to get a letter From your sweetheart far away. —St. yohtt's Collegian. THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY 275 "A college contest in oratory is open to the diffident that he may learn of his own ability. It is open to the bashful that he may stand before men and exhibit his nerve. It is a benefit to the egotist if defeat draws him to the plane of his fellow students and teaches him that ordinary ability is common to man. It is a benefit to all participants when defeat is a stimulus to greater effort, and victory is followed by a modest conception of one's own ability." —Central Collegian. We acknowledge the receipt of the following :—Nassau Lit, University of Virginia Magazine, Dickinson Literary Monthly, Bucknell Mirror, Washington-Jeffersonion, Haverfordian, Susqne-hanna, Phoenix, Buff and Blue, College Student, Ursinus College Bulletin, Touchstone, Juniata Echo, Philomathean, Monthly, Mountaineer, et all. BOOK REVIEWS "The Art of Teaching." By E. E. White. American Book Co., New York. 'T'HE; author of this work is an acknowledged master of both *• the sciences and art of teaching. In this work he gives a clear and helpful discussion of the fundamental principles and practical methods which pertain to teaching as an art. He care-fully marks out the true value and limitations of all special methods in order to guard teachers against the common error of accepting them as general methods. This book will doubtless meet with a hearty reception among all active and progressive teachers. "Tales." By Edgar Allen Poe. The Century Co., New York. TN this attractive volume we have a collection of Poe's best ■*■ prose. In reading these tales, one is especially struck both with their ingenious plot and with their felicitous and often brilliant diction. His characters strike one, however, more as phantoms than as real and companionable personages. They are part of the machinery of horror and phantasmagoria which Poe loved to make use of to effect his weird purpose. They help to create that haunting atmosphere which enshrouds his characters and makes for the mystery of his stories. The ingenuity of his I 276 THE GETTYSBURG MERCURY plots is no less remarkable than the skill with which they are wrought out, while the artifices of his style marvellously heighten their effect. Among the writers of the age few have excelled him or have more effectively enlisted the art of the literary conjurer for the purposes of ingenious prose narration. "Birth A New Chance." By Columbus Bradford. A. C. Mc- Clurg & Co., Chicago. Pries $r.jo. IN this book the author has posited a theory which resembles in *■ some respects that of Theosophy, and in his arguments to prove his hypothesis shows considerable skill in turning and twisting scriptural passagesto suit his own views. If the same personality reappears in another body in due time according to the conditions which the author supposes, it may not be impossible that we have in our midst in the body of the author himself the old Greek philosopher, Empedocles, with his ancient views slightly modified. As to the correctness of this theory of having more than one chance to aid in the perfection of the human race we feel that the author has not succeeded in presenting adequate proof. F. Mark Bream, Dealer in Fancy and Staple Groceries Telephone 29 Carlisle St., GETTYSBURG, PA. COLLEGE EMBLEMS. EMIL ZOTHE, ENGRAVER, DESIGNER AND MANUFACTURING JEWELER. 19 S. NINTH ST. PHILADELPHIA SPECIALTIES: Masonic Marks, Society Badges, College Buttons, Pins, Scarf Pins, Stick Pins and Athletic Prizes. All Goods ordered through A. N. Beau. No. 3 Main St., GETTYSBURG, PENNA. Our new effects in Portraiture are equal to photos made anywhere, and at any price. Weikert $ Crouse Butchers EVERYTHING IN THIS LINE WE HANDLE GIVE US A TRIAL Balto. St. Gettysburg PATRONIZE OUR ADVERTISERS. E. H. FORAE3T gather Beef, Veal, Pork, Lamb, Sausages. Special rates to Clubs. P .i85o-igoi. Our Name has stood as a guarantee of Quality for over fyalf a Century C. K. P>oas JEWELER and dlWERSttlTH 214 and 216 Matket St. Harrisbutg, Pa. Latest Designs Prices Reasonable CHAS. S. MUMPER (Formerly of Mumper & Bender) Furniture Having- opened a new store opposite W. M. R. R. Depot, will be pleased to have you call and examine goods. Picture Framing promptly attended to. Repair Work a Specialty Students' Trade Solicited I For a nice sweet loaf of Bread call on J. RAMER Baker of Bread and Fancy Cakes, GETTYSBURG. PA. PATRONIZE OUR ADVERTISERS. The Century Double-Feed Fountain Pen. Fully Warranted J6 Kt. Gold Pen, Iridium Pointed. GEO. EVELER, Agt. for Gettysburg College PRICE LIST. No. 1. No. 1. No. 3. No. 3. Chased, long or short $2 00 Gold Mounted 3 00 Chased 3 00 Gold Mounted 4 00 Spiral, Black or Mottled $2 SO Twist, " 2 50 Hexagon, Black or Mottled 2 SO Pearl Holder, Gold Mounted S 00 THE CENTURY PEN CO., WHITEWATER, WIS. Askyour Stationer or our Agent to show them toyou. Agood local agent-wanted in every school &mmmmmmmmmvmmwwmwt£ PrittitigandBitidhij We Print This Book THE MT. HOLLY STATIONERY AND PRINTING CO. does all classes of Printing- and Binding-, and can furnish you any Book, Bill Head, Letter Head, Envelope, Card, Blank, or anything pertain-ing to their business in just as good style and at less cost than you can obtain same elsewhere. They are located among the mountains but their work is metropolitan. You can be convinced of this if you give them the opportunity. Mt. Holly Stationery and Printing Co. *SPRINGS, PA. ^ H. S. BENNER, .DEALER IN. Groceries, Notions, Queensware, Glassware, Etc., Tobacco and Cigars 17 CHAMBERSBURG ST. WE RECOMMEND THESE BUSINESS MEN. Pitzer House, (Temperance) JNO. E. PITZER, Prop. Rates $1.00 to $1.25 per day. Battlefield a specialty. Dinner and ride to all pointsof mterest,including the tb ree daj-s' fight, $1.25. No. 127 Main Street. R. A. WONDERS, Corner Cigar Parlors. A full line of Cigars, Tobacco, Pipes, Etc. Scott's Corner, Opp. Eagle Hotel. GETTYSBURG, PA. You will find a full line of Pure Drugs and Fine Sta- People's Drug Store Prescriptions a Specialty. W. F. CODORI, StoonTcodort Dealer in Beef, Pork, Lamb, Veal, Sausage. Special rates to Clubs. York St., GETTYSBURG. J. A. TAWNEY »" Is ready to furnish Clubs and Bread, Rolls, Etc. At short notice and reasonable rates. Washington and Middle Sts., Gettysburg .GO TO. CHAS. E. BARBEHENN, Barber Eagle Hotel, Cor. Main and Washing-ton Sts. L. D. Miller, GROCER Confectioner and Fruiterer. Ice Cream and Oysters in Season. 19 Main St. GETTYSBURG The Pleased Customer Is not a stranger in our establish-ment— he's right at home, you'll see him when you call. We have the materials to please fastidious men. J. D. LIPPY, Merchant Tailor 39 Chambersburg St., Gettysburg, Pa. CityHote, ggjj? Free 'Bus to and from all walk from either depot Dinner with drive over field ■• with four or more, SI.35 Rates $1.50 to $2.00 per day- John E. Hughes, Prop. S. J. CODORI, arber C3f)op For a good shave or hair cut. Bar-bers' supplies a specialty. Razor Strops, Soaps, Brushes, Creams, Combs, Mugs, and Coke Dandruff cure will cure Dandruff. .No. 38 Baltimore Street. GryrT