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On spine, v. 1: "Les petits livres rouges; Révolution de 1848." ; "Imprimerie de Boulé": v. 1, p. [31] ; No more published? ; v. I. Exposition -- v. II. Situation. ; Goldsmiths' Lib. cat., ; Mode of access: Internet.

AbstractMuch postcolonial theory assumes a continuity of both behavior and representation between colonial rule and what has succeeded it across sub-Saharan Africa. The maltreatment of political prisoners in Guinea in the wake of its brief invasion by Portuguese troops in November 1970 provides a challenging but ultimately fruitful empirical record against which to test this theory. I use an analytical approach informed by history, law, anthropology, and communications theory to explore continuities between the legal practices of French colonial and contemporary revolutionary regimes, on one hand, and Guinea's pursuit of supposed traitors, on the other. Though there is more discontinuity than direct inheritance in the administration of justice, the article argues that the representation of Guinea's colonial heritage was a central part of how President Sékou Touré legitimized his state and his own rule. I suggest that the colonial legacy operated more as a benchmark of what behavior might be acceptable in a postcolonial revolutionary state such as Guinea than as a linear precedent from French colonial rule to the Guinean revolution. The regime's representation of its colonial legacy also helps to explain the form, medium, and content of the political prisoners' broadcast confessions.

Examines the design of tactile political maps by constructing two experimental maps having either a broad raised line or a broad incised line. Performance on these two maps was compared with performance on a thin raised line map (control), which is typically found in braille books. The subjects were 72 braille readers in grades 4-12. Performance on the broad raised line map was superior to performance on the control map. Performance on the broad incised line map did not differ from performance on the control map.

Michael E. Nash, July 26, 2013; Michael E. Nash at 271 25th Street ca. 1966; Michael E. Nash at the Ogden Bus Depot ; Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. ; The following is an oral history interview with Michael Nash. The interview was conducted on July 26, 2013, by Melissa Johnson, in Kaysville, Utah. Michael discusses his memories of 25th Street. ; 22p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 videodisc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Michael Nash Interviewed by Melissa Johnson 26 July 2013 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Michael Nash Interviewed by Melissa Johnson 26 July 2013 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. After World War II, the railroad business declined. Some government agencies and businesses related to the defense industry continued to gravitate to Ogden after the war—including the Internal Revenue Regional Center, the Marquardt Corporation, Boeing Corporation, Volvo-White Truck Corporation, Morton-Thiokol, and several other smaller operations. However, the economy became more service oriented, with small businesses developing that appealed to changing demographics, including the growing Hispanic population. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Nash, Michael, an oral history by Melissa Johnson, 26 July 2013 , WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Michael E. Nash July 26, 2013 Michael E. Nash at 271 25th Street ca. 1966 Michael E. Nash at the Ogden Bus Depot Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Michael Nash. The interview was conducted on July 26, 2013, by Melissa Johnson, in Kaysville, Utah. Michael discusses his memories of 25th Street. MJ: This is Melissa Johnson and it is July 26, 2013. I'm here in the home of Michael Nash in Kaysville, Utah and he is going to talk with us a little bit about his memories of 25th Street as part of our Business at the Crossroads project. Recording the interview today is Jordan Chavez. So, just to start off a little bit, tell us about where and when you were born. MN: It's nice to have you guys here, thank you. My full name in Michael Earl Serpa Nash and I was born on the 7th of May of 1947 in Ogden at the St. Benedict's Hospital at the top of 30th Street. The address that I grew up was 451 15th Street in Ogden. It was not too far from the Lorin Farr Park and the Ogden Stadium. MJ: Tell us a little bit about your family as well. MN: My biological father's name was Lembert (Lindy) Joseph Serpa. He and my mom divorced when I was fairly young. His family lived in Oakland, California. I'd see him once a summer until I got a little older through junior high and high school. One unique thing about my biological father, in his younger days played for the Ogden Reds baseball team. As a matter of fact, at Iggy's Sports Grill at the junction in Ogden, they have a picture of the 1939 Ogden Reds and his picture is in that group of the baseball team. He also played some Western Canadian baseball and served in the Navy. He. was aboard the U.S.S. Alabama during 1 World War II. My stepfather, William Leslie Nash Jr. and my mom married in 1957 and is from Aurora, Missouri. He was in the Air Force at Hill Air Force Base when they met, and got discharged from there. His line of work after the Air Force was in construction. He started at Waterfall Construction in Ogden, then worked for Gibbons & Reed Construction Company, which is now Granite Construction. My mom, Barbara May Lamb Serpa Nash, is from Ogden and was an LPN, a licensed practical nurse at St. Benedict's Hospital for a while, but the majority of the time she was a stay at home mom with me and my brother, Roger. My half-brother Roger Scott Nash, was eleven years younger than myself, but we still had a lot in common even though we were a bit separated in years. He was also born in Ogden. My grandmother, Hattie May Gail Lamb was a stay at home mom. She came from a fairly large family and they settled in Riverdale, Utah. My grandfather, Earl Ogden Lamb, was from Iowa. During Vaudeville, he was stage manager when they had the Vaudeville shows at the Orpheum Theater. When they converted to the talking pictures, he was a projectionist at the Orpheum Theater. It was the Glassman family that owned the Orpheum and the Paramount theaters. When my grandfather died, they gave my grandmother a pass for her and one other person to the Orpheum and the Paramount movies and only had to pay the tax. MJ: Just really quick, do you know what position your dad played on the Reds? MN: Catcher. MJ: You mentioned your mom being an LPN, was she trained here in Ogden? MN: Yes, she trained at the St. Benedict's Hospital at the top of 30th Street. 2 MJ: You mentioned to us before that your uncle had owned the Lyceum building and at that time had been converted into the liquor store in the bottom and apartments above. MN: Right. My uncle, Harold F. Gail was my grandmother's brother and he worked for The Standard Examiner for a while and then he had his own business, Gail Printing Company. When my grandmother sold our house on 15th Street, she moved to 271 25th Street in 1957. My mom, stepdad, brother and myself ultimately ended up moving to the apartments in approximately 1959. The Lyceum faces north and south, so Grandma actually lived in apartment number seven which was in the southeast corner of the building on the second floor. My brother and I, my mom and stepdad lived in apartment number one, which was the north end of the building that overlooked 25th Street. There was approximately seven apartments on the second floor. The first floor was the Utah State Liquor Store. A partial third level had just two apartments. MJ: Do you know how or when our uncle purchased the building? MN: I'm not sure. MJ: Okay. You said your grandmother moved there in 1957 and you guys moved there. MN: We ultimately moved there in 1959 and we lived there from 1959 to 1968. MJ: Okay. Before we talk a little bit more about 25th Street, what were some of the things that you did for fun when you were growing up? 3 MN: You know, it was probably just the normal things as a kid, I guess. Of course, having moved quite a bit when I was younger, I met a lot of people and had a lot of friends around the Ogden area, but never got to stay in one place for a long time other than on 15th Street. I stayed there from 1947 to 1957 then we moved to 25th Street. I went to a lot of movies, of course, at the Orpheum and the Paramount. There was also the Egyptian Theater on Washington Boulevard and the Ogden Theater. I didn't go to the Ogden very much because it mainly had adult movies. When I would walk to Madison or Central up to 25th Street, sometimes they'd have some pretty risqué pictures of the movies that were playing but a curious kid as myself you had to check them out. I had some good riends who were employed at the greyhound bus station and the coffee shop next door to the east. I remember a lady and her two daughters that managed the Helina Hotel for a while. I did just normal stuff, if you want to call it normal on 25th Street. Let me just say that even though we lived on 25th Street, we weren't necessarily of the street. There were a lot of different types of people that would come down there—people from the Ogden business district and people that hung out on the street all the time. MJ: All kinds of people. MN: Right. Exactly. MJ: What was 25th Street like when you guys lived there? MN: Wow, well there was a lot going on with the various establishments and I remember the Broom Hotel on the corner of 25th and Washington. Before even the federal building, there were a lot of different businesses and bars in that area. 4 Of course, there was just a wide variety of establishments from hotels to bars and cafes. It was just interesting. MJ: Did you see a lot of trouble? MN: A lot of different things. When you live in an area like that, you do. You see a lot of different people like husbands being abusive to their wives, especially sometimes when their cars were parked in front of the liquor store. I don't know if they were even partially intoxicated when they were there, or had an altercation of some type, but when your apartment, like ours was, facing 25th Street, you do see a lot. With everything going on you're bound to see all kinds of stuff. On a positive note, one thing that stands out in my mind are the buses— the greyhound buses that were coming and going. There was also the Lake Shore Motor Coach Lines, which was a local commuter bus from Ogden to Salt Lake and all points in between. I vividly remember one of the Greyhound routes that would be announced as follows: "All aboard the north bound car. Loading in lane number two for Brigham City, Snowville, Stravel, Burley, Twin Falls, Boise, Baker, Pendleton, Walla Walla, Lewiston, Spokane, Portland, Tacoma, Seattle, Vancouver." Just to the west of the Lyceum, was the labor temple. This is where a lot of the labor unions had their offices and where the members would meet. I can't remember the exact time when the labor temple caught on fire, nor the circumstances why, but it was late one night or early one morning and it was a fairly cooler time of the year. The fire department came and woke us all up, everybody in the building, to evacuate. So, we had to leave the building, but the 5 greyhound bus station closed at approximately 11:30 p.m., and it was after that that the fire happened, so we went over to the Trailways terminal which was just north across the street on the corner from the Greyhound bus station. We were all in our robes and pajamas and night gowns, and had to stay until they got the fire put out and until they deemed it safe to go back in. I remember for a long time afterwards you could smell the smoke from the fire at the labor temple. Another thing that stands out in my mind was, especially on Fridays and Saturday nights, there would be, just to the south of the back of the apartments was the Elk's Lodge. The Elk's faced east and west, but they would always have a live band usually there on Friday and Saturday nights and a lot of people and a lot of parties going on. West of our building was the Acapulco Club and they had a live band too so it was kind of a battle of the bands on Friday nights and Saturday nights. They'd have music during the week, but nothing like the live bands that would be there on the weekends. It was loud and pretty noisy, but it was fun. There were things going on at the park sometimes, different things at the park, which was just to the east of Grant Avenue. MJ: I think it's really interesting, a lot of times when people think about Ogden, they think about the railroad and that end of 25th Street, the hustle and bustle over there, so it's interesting to hear the hustle and bustle at the other end of the street with the buses. MN: Yes, that's exactly true. The old silver sides and scenic cruiser buses. Fred Holden, who was the ticker agent, had two of his sons that worked there, Terry and Tom Holden, and then there was a gentleman by the name of Gerald 6 Perkins. Oliver Albertson sold pillows on the buses when they'd come in, and there was an African American gentleman whose last name was Coleman, but they called him Coley and he would shine shoes in the men's restroom of the bus station. Good people. Really good people. MJ: They had a lot going on down there. You said that you worked at the coffee shop there in the bus depot, how did you get job? MN: Exactly. Well, living there and working close, or being there a lot, I knew Fred Holden and his boys and he basically ran the whole operation. Don Mueller was the first operator of the coffee shop. Then there was Welling Zundel who ran it for a while after Don Mueller left. June Barker was one of the waitresses at the coffee shop. Her husband, Tom Barker, was a Lakeshore bus driver. When Welling Zundel took over, he had a couple of his granddaughters, Mary and Jane Holmes that worked there. So I got to be really good friends with all them. MJ: Where in the depot was the coffee shop? MN: It was on the northwest corner of the building. MJ: What did the rest of the interior of the depot look like? MN: Restrooms, of course, but I remember they had similar waiting benches that the train depot had. There was the ticket counter, an area where people would put their bags to be checked because they had to be loaded on the buses or off-loaded when the buses came in or left. Basically, the exterior now pretty much looks like it did back then. 7 MJ: We talked a little bit about the theaters before and your grandfather working there. Any other memories of those downtown theaters? MN: The reason we went to so many movies is because of the passes my grandmother got, and the theaters were so close. I remember when they had, "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," playing and the big marquee out front. Adjacent and pretty much connected to the Orpheum Theater was the Dokos Candy Company, and the proprietor there was a gentleman by the name of Johnny Dokos. We would go in and get a few little refreshments and some candy. A lot of times Johnny would take me down to where they were making the candy in the basement. The Paramount was on Kiesel Avenue between 24th and 25th on the west side. I remember the old movie tone news that would broadcast before the movies. MJ: You had mentioned to us before the Mr. Softie truck. Did you work in the Mr. Softie truck? MN: Fred Holden got this franchise for Mr. Softie and it was actually a fairly large ice cream truck because it had an ice cream making machine. It reminded me of some of the larger post office trucks. We would park it over at the gas station on 27th Street and Grant Avenue and would plug it in at night to keep the batteries charged. During the day in the summertime, I would bring it over to the Greyhound bus terminal and park it on the furthest west end to get it out of the way of the buses. In the storage room on the southwest corner of the building is where they'd keep a lot of the supplies, so we'd load it up from there and then would go to North Ogden, the central part of Ogden and then to South Ogden. 8 MJ: You mentioned before too, the woman and her daughter that ran the Helina Hotel. MN: There was a lady and her two daughters that managed the Helina Hotel. They would come up to the coffee shop and would visit. I wish I could remember their names because they were really good people. MJ: We've got the Polk directories at the library, I wonder if we can look up the hotel at that time and find out their names. MN: The Helina Hotel still has the Helina Hotel name on the front of it. The Lyceum, that name was not, on the front of the building other than recently whenever they started redoing that whole area. MJ: That's good to know because I figured that it was original to it. MN: No, and from what I can recall, it was not. Even though it was the Lyceum Theater, that "Lyceum," was not painted on the building. On the north side there was just a small entrance to the apartments that you could go upstairs and we could lock it at nights or anytime. We'd usually leave it open during the day so the mailman could deliver the mail because there were boxes right at the approach. Then you'd go up the stairs into the hallway. A couple of the inner apartments didn't have windows and were used for storage, but the ones like my grandmothers and ours that had windows and some of the others along the east side were occupied. MJ: You had mentioned too, the Great Wall Café and Grill Tavern. 9 MN: You could look out our front window and just to the north was the Grill Tavern and just a little bit northeast was the Great Wall Café. In that same area was the Depot Drug. Also there was the Kokomo Club, which is still operating. There was Poncho's at 25th Street and Lincoln Avenue and the Marion Hotel on the one hundred block. We were in the two hundred block. There was Star Noodle and next door there was a little Judo or Karate place, they would teach Judo or Karate and you could go down in a basement area and actually sit and watch them do their practicing. Also, on Lincoln, between 25th and 26th, I believe it was on the east side of the street, they had the Sundowners Motorcycle Club hangout and then, of course, I remember Wonder Bread. That had been there for a long time, plus the thrift store and that was on Grand Avenue, a little bit south of the Elk's Lodge. I also remember the library. When I was going to Central and Ogden High School, if I needed to, I'd just go over to the library on the corner of 26th and Washington. MJ: The Carnegie Library, right? MN: The Carnegie Library, exactly. That was there for a long time, but I would go in and study and do whatever. It was a short walk home so it was pretty convenient. MJ: You talked about the park there and you said that you would sometimes walk over for Christmas Village. MN: Right. During Christmas time, they'd have it all set up like they still do to a certain extent. Since my brother was a lot younger than myself, when my grandmother and my mother would set out Christmas, Roger, myself, and my stepdad would take him over to the park and would just walk around and look at things and 10 spend about as long as we could, about a half an hour or 45 minutes until we figured the presents were all there under the tree. The apartments weren't very big, so we didn't have a huge tree, but we would go back and it was kind of special to Roger because Santa Claus had come. The park did a very good job in the Christmas village with the decorations and music. There were a lot of people there every night during the Christmas season. MJ: It's interesting doing this project because some people remember 25th Street as just rough and tumble and crime this problem area, other people remember it as being this very vibrant and alive kind of place. Where do you think your memories fit? MN: A lot of it kind of intermingles with everything you said because living there on a full-time basis, you see some good things and you see some bad things, but overall, it was just the area at the time. You could go not too far north, south, east, or west and be in the business district of Ogden. You could be over where they were doing all of the bread making at Wonder Bread. The post office was not too far. Before they built the federal building and when the Broom Hotel was there, you had more of the same kind of situation there so it was more extended before they tore that 300 block down where the federal building is now. So, there was still part of the, "red light alley." I got a book that I was reading on it called, "The Historic Two-Bit Street," and that brought a lot of memories back about the red light district. I remember that area. I don't remember exactly, but I think probably they had a lot of that cleaned up fairly well during the time that we were there. Maybe not totally, but I don't remember so much the negative things. It 11 was just the spirit of the time more or less. There was just a lot of stuff going on and just a lot of things happening. There was never a dull moment basically there. You had to be careful, of course. We would lock our door to the building at night and hopefully people in the apartments would remember to do that, but every so often you'd have different people come up for whatever reason if somebody forgot to lock it and they were drunk, or whatever by mistake or maybe they were just coming up to visit one of the tenants there. One thing I can remember in the building is on the partial third level, you'd go up right before you got to the two apartments, apartment 8 and apartment 9, you'd make a 180 degree turn and there was a little entrance that you'd have to bend down to go into a locked door, but you'd open the door with out key and go in. I remember there were closets, or dressing rooms that they had used at the time when it was a theater to store things. My mother's uncle would let the tenants store things there. That partial area where the storage closets were, was fairly large, but then actually you could look further north up in the attic area and could see all of the open beams. It was very dark. You had a light in part of the area where the storage closets were. They weren't a small closet. They almost looked like things where you could store wardrobe type stuff. I remember going up and just looking around seeing a lot of different things. When I went to Ogden High School I'd catch the Ogden City bus at the corner of 25th and Grant Avenue. I'd ride it all the way to Ogden High School and then catch the same bus back and it would drop me off on Washington and 25th. It was kind of different to ride the city bus line to school every day. The brief time I went to Madison and Central, I walked 12 there and back home in good and bad weather usually. It was a workout, but I made it okay. I remember the Topper Bakery which is still on Monroe between 25th and 26th. MJ: How come your family ultimately moved from there? MN: I'm not really sure because when they moved from 25th they moved to Gramercy between 25th and 26th. I joined the Air Force during the Vietnam timeframe and I went in 1966 and went to my basic training and tech. school and was stationed back at Hill for two and a half years, so when I was in the Air Force for part of that four year time, I actually just lived at home and drove to Hill. Then I got orders to go to Thailand from 1968 to 1969 and that was when my grandmother, my mom, dad and Roger moved from 25th Street to Gramercy. When I got back from Thailand, they had already moved. Why? I don't know if maybe they just needed a little bit more room. The apartments were fairly small and you had to put stuff in storage, so I think they just wanted to get a home and just press on from there. Grandma lived with us until her passing in May of 1969. MJ: I just have a few more questions for you to wind down. How do you think Ogden and 25th Street have changed since you lived there? MN: All that they've done to make 25th Street historic. Times change and you just go with the times. Especially where the Junction is now, there used to be a lot of small stores and stuff. Wow, because I grew up in Ogden a lot of big changes have taken place, most have been for the better. The inner city has taken a bit of a downturn. There are still a lot of old beautiful homes in the inner city. The buildings and the structure all seem to be, a lot of them are really still there. A lot 13 of them have been put on registers for the historical society and whatever. I know the Egyptian survived. I was kind of disappointed for the Orpheum, but I think when they were doing some construction there on that part of Ogden, somehow something fell on the roof there and it caved in and they had to demolish it. For the most part, the old city and county building is there from when I remembered it. Of course, I remember the jail being at the top there. I call it the city and county building referring to it as that because that has pretty much stayed in place. Overall, just with progress and different things, but I'm glad that a lot of the building on 25th Street, the bus station is still intact structurally and the Lyceum Theater. I think, I believe, that the apartments…well, let me back track a little bit, when I went down there and they were doing a little bit of the remodeling to the Lyceum building, when they were putting the Wiseguys and what's there now, I was talking with my Uncle Herold's son, Brent, who I believe is still living. Gary Gail, his other boy, died a few years back. He was an attorney in Ogden. Brent still lives up on Weelocken, but I was talking with him and I asked him if it was okay, and even the construction workers, if I went and just went through the building a little bit. Actually, I got a brick that I still have of the remodel of the building. Upstairs where the apartments were, initially I think they were going to turn that into office space because when I went up there, of course, they hadn't done it yet, but there were still a lot of mattresses and furniture in the different apartments. It was neat to walk through them, it brought back a lot of memories. 14 It was neat to go back through the Lyceum buildings when they were remodeling it for the Wiseguys play house downstairs. Probably back in the 1970's, Herold Gale had his printing company in there for a while where the liquior store was. I remember working for my mother's Uncle Herold when he left The Standard Examiner and had his printing business. It was initially in the old Ogden Utah Knitting Mill building just north of the old post office on Grant Avenue on the second floor. Then he moved from there to Ogden Avenue between 25th and 26th Street on the west side of the street. There were some buildings there and he occupied a small warehouse where he had his printing facility. Facing the entrance was a parking lot behind Glen Bros. Music Store. MN: We've covered a lot, haven't we? There are just a lot of things. I appreciate the opportunity to share some of these experiences because for the nine years or so that I lived on 25th, even though it was fine for me, you get labeled, "Oh, you live on 25th Street? Oh my gosh, you're living in a pretty rough part of town," which it was, but you dealt with it. I knew so many people that I wasn't really picked on as a kid. I mean, you go through different things, but I knew so many people from different parts of town that they pretty much left me alone. So, I was immune to a lot of the bullying that maybe went on. Thank you for this opportunity, it's been great. MJ: Thank you. Was there anything else you wanted to share? Did we get it all? MN: I think we pretty much covered most of it. 15 MJ: Good. Thank you very much for letting us come here today. We really appreciate it. MN: That's great. Thanks again. 16

DeLoss M. Eggleston, September 17, 2013 ; Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. ; The following is an oral history interview with DeLoss Eggleston. The interview was conducted on September 17, 2013, by Lorrie Rands, in Ogden, Utah. DeLoss discusses his experience with 25th Street. ; 24p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 videodisc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program DeLoss M. Eggleston Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 17 September 2013 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah DeLoss M. Eggleston Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 17 September 2013 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. After World War II, the railroad business declined. Some government agencies and businesses related to the defense industry continued to gravitate to Ogden after the war—including the Internal Revenue Regional Center, the Marquardt Corporation, Boeing Corporation, Volvo-White Truck Corporation, Morton-Thiokol, and several other smaller operations. However, the economy became more service oriented, with small businesses developing that appealed to changing demographics, including the growing Hispanic population. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Eggleston, DeLoss, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 17 September 2013, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii DeLoss M. Eggleston September 17, 2013 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with DeLoss Eggleston. The interview was conducted on September 17, 2013, by Lorrie Rands, in Ogden, Utah. DeLoss discusses his experience with 25th Street. LR: It is September 17th, 2013. We are in the home of DeLoss Eggleston in Ogden talking about 25th street and surrounding Ogden. Caroline Olmstead is doing the camera. So DeLoss, I appreciate you allowing us into your home for this, a lot. Let's start out simple, when and where were you born? DE: I was born at the old McKay-Dee or the Dee Hospital on 24th and Harrison in 1926. LR: Okay, and where did you grow up? DE: I grew up in Eden. That's up in Ogden Valley. You have Huntsville, Eden and Liberty and then you go over the mountain to Paradise. LR: So your family would commute over into Ogden to work and go to school? DE: Well, we had a farm. My father hauled the milk from Eden and Liberty, down to the Weber Central Dairy. That used to be on Ogden Avenue between 25th and 26th street. LR: Where was Ogden Avenue? DE: Between Washington and Adams. So, it's a half street. LR: So kind of like Kiesel. 1 DE: Yes. LR: It's not there anymore, is it? DE: Yeah. Oh yes. LR: Where did you go to school then? DE: I went to Eden Elementary School until I got to the fifth grade and then they closed that school and transferred us to Huntsville. So I went to Huntsville for junior high and then Weber High School. Which was at the time on 12th and Washington, where the market used to be, it's not there anymore. LR: So, you mentioned last time that you had a job on 25th street. So, what were some of your jobs and experiences on 25th street growing up? DE: Well, actually, we ran the milk down there and I would run down if we got a chance to go down to Ross and Jack's for a bowl of soup. They would always give us plenty of crackers, so we would crack up all the crackers and put them in the bowl of soup and this would be our lunch sometimes. After I was a junior at Weber High School, I got a job at Walgreens drug store on the corner of 25th and Washington, in the main floor of the Broom Hotel. And that Broom Hotel was one of the best ones. The Ben Lomond Hotel was on the other side, or across the street from us and we had a lot of business there, in that drug store. LR: How long did you work there? DE: Oh, about six months. LR: So, what was one of the reasons why you quit? 2 DE: I had a little disagreement with my father and I went down to live with my sister who was living in West Ogden and her husband was in the service and he was transferred to San Diego. So she decided to go down there and that left me all by myself there at her place. And I couldn't get up early enough to go to school and I wanted to graduate from high school. So I moved to California to live with my sister, Alice, down there and graduate from a high school down in El Monte, California. LR: So, while you were working there, did you see any interesting things that would occur on 25th? DE: Oh, lots of interesting things. During the war, and this was in '43 or '44, there was a lot of soldiers and they invariably would walk up 25th to Washington and usually stop in for refreshments where we could serve drinks and malts and things of that sort, and we had plenty of pie. We would compete with Ross and Jack's down the street. LR: So you would see a lot of the soldiers coming in. Would you ever have an opportunity to walk down the street? DE: Oh yes. I would walk down the street there, 25th to Lincoln, or, 25th to Grant. There was the Grey Hound Bus Station. I would walk that way and once in a while would go down to the railroad station. It was interesting to watch all the soldiers. LR: It wasn't something that was common practice then to just walk up and down the street. 3 DE: Yes, it was. LR: Why do you think that was? DE: Well, I was just a kid. LR: Okay. You mentioned last time about a friend you had that knew about the tunnels on 25th street. DE: Oh yes. This friend of mine who taught school with me actually, he had business down there and he would go down to stores to get the rent, he owned the buildings and then would rent them out. So he would go in to collect rent and things of that sort. And he talked about the several hotels that had tunnels going from one to the other. So that if anything that happened to one they could just go to the other and close the door and hide themselves. Then once in a while, we would walk down behind the hotels. There was an alley way that we would go down there and it was interesting to see various things and the windows and apartments that were on that street and the red lights. LR: So walking behind in those alleys, did you notice the little cribs they had, behind those buildings? The little shacks. DE: Well, yeah. I always thought they were just storage unit. But they may be. LR: So in 1943, '44 you enlisted correct? DE: I was drafted. When I went to California. I tried to enlist in the navy and they turned me down because of a scar on my shoulder and so I thought I was 4F. So when the army came along, they drafted me. LR: So the story of the bus and… 4 DE: Oh, gas was rationed and there was no automobiles being sold. So automobiles were old. And transportation was a real problem. At the bus stations, the war effort, they told the drivers of the buses that they had to let the soldiers get on the buses first because of their scheduling and such. So soldiers and their wives could get on the bus first. The soldiers who were not married would come up there and there would be a group of young ladies watching them. Well, not necessarily young ladies, but ladies watching them and as soon as they came up and as soon as they realized they were single, they would come up and ask them if they could be their wives, for the purpose of getting on the bus and making the trip. When I was in the army, I went on my 30 day leave before I went overseas, I went to California and I rode the bus from Los Angeles to Baltimore, Maryland, which is a long ride. I had five wives on that trip going there. When I got to Maryland, I went to get my haircut and I didn't realize but it was a long ride and I hadn't had a bath. I went in to get a haircut and the barber looked at me: "I gotta wash your head before I cut your hair." LR: So after the war you, you came back to Ogden. DE: Yes, I came back to California. Then I went on a mission for the church to France and then came back and went to Weber College to get my education. LR: So, while you were at Weber College, did you ever just walk down the hill a little ways? DE: Yeah, I did. There were stores down there that, oh, a couple of them had interesting things, loan shops and such and I used to go down to them. 5 LR: Can you remember any in particular? DE: Well, the one down there, just up the street from Wall Avenue, Ogden. LR: The Gift Shop? DE: Yeah, the gift shop there. LR: And what about that did you find interesting? DE: See, at that time the train station was a big station. They were doing a lot. They had underpasses up there to the various lines that could go out. It was kind of fascinating to watch people. I enjoy people. LR: That seems to be a common thing. A lot of people going on 25th street just to watch. DE: Yeah, yeah. LR: So would you do that often? DE: Not too terribly often, I was too busy. LR: But when you did, it was always fascinating? DE: Yeah. Before, when I was going to Weber High School, this friend of mine had a car, actually it was his dad's car but we drove it and we would run the boulevard and also go up and down and watch people going in there. Once in a while you would find a drunk that was laying on the curb and you'd look at him and wonder what to do with him but we never did anything with them. LR: So after you graduated from Weber College, what did you decide to do as a career? 6 DE: As a career? LR: Yeah, as your career. DE: Well, I went down to the Y and graduated from there. Weber was a two year college and I had been over in France and after I had finished my mission I went to Sorbonne for a quarter. So when I came back to Weber, between military and that language, I could get through a little faster. So in reality, I got through four years of college in three years. Not counting the quarter I did in France. But then I went into education and weird things happened. I was at the Y and I was married. My wife was expecting and I needed a job. So I kept hounding the employment office and one day I was in there and their phone rang and I waited until she answered the phone and then she says: "Have you ever taught driving. Driver education?" I said: "Well I haven't done it but I could do it." "Well they want somebody at Provo High School for adult driver education." So I went down there and got the job, did a little class work to help out. After I graduated I was looking for a job and I would hit the employment office every once in a while. Anyway, one day I was in there and I came out and I was thinking about what they had done, I was concentrating. I came out and I ran right into the superintendent of the Ogden City schools. I didn't really know him but anyway, I somehow got to talking to him and he said well give me an application. So I made out an application and then I moved up back up to Ogden after graduating and graduated from the Y. So I came back up here and I was living with my in-laws, looking for a job. And he came up to the house, this is funny, and I wasn't there but he came up to the house where I was staying and knocked on the door. My 7 wife, who was pregnant and barefoot, greeted him. Anyway, he offered me a job and I started teaching driver education at Ben Lomond High School. I was on the original faculty at Ben Lomond. I got involved in the National Organization for Driver Education. It was just beginning and we went through the legislature and got permission and funding for driver ed. and when you get a driver's license, you give them an extra dollar for driver's education and we got that bill passed. Here in Ogden, they started building automobile driving rangers around the country and so I went to the superintendent and asked him what we could do and he said that we had a location for an elementary school but they were building the elementary school in another place. I asked, "Can I have that land and build a driving range on it." "Yeah go ahead." So, I built the driving range that is used by both Ogden and Ben Lomond High School down here on Mountain Road. The elementary school, Horace Mann, was the one they were going to build down there but they decided to build it up here. LR: So, what year did Ben Lomond open? DE: '53. LR: And you were on the original faculty? DE: Yeah. There are three of us left, of the original faculty. LR: You said Ogden City uses the driving range. Do they use it? DE: Ogden High School, just Ben Lomond High School. Just the high school. LR: Just the high schools. I thought you said the city. DE: No. 8 LR: Now you mentioned last time that you were on the committee to help change the speed limits here in Ogden. DE: I knew the fellow who was the Mayor at the time and he asked me to serve on a traffic and parking coordinating committee that the city council had established. There were about, well it varied, but around 10 to 15 on that committee. As far as I know, I'm the only one still alive of that group. There was a judge that was on there but he passed away last year. And we worked the kind of parking problems that they're still concerned about in town but you're never going to solve all of those. But at the time when the automobiles first started out, the state legislature said that all speed limits in cities would be 25 miles an hour. Now this is the '50s and '60s and cars were much better than when they set that limit. So with the use of radar, which was new, they just started using radar, we could measure the rate of speed which traffic was going and we would use unmarked cars, we would always note the time, location, the weather, and anything else that was important on the streets. We found that in the majority of streets, traffic was going much faster than 25. Personally, and I believe and I persuaded the others, that 85 percent of the drivers, are pretty good drivers. You may want to argue that but anyway, we came to the conclusion that the speed should be set at about what 85 percent of the drivers were driving. So we raised a lot of the speed limits in a lot of the streets. East, west, north, south streets, main streets, we raised that to 35. After we raised that to 35, I have to say there are two streets where the people on those streets, really argued that's too fast, you're going to kill our kids. But anyway, we, after we gave people time to use to driving on the 35, we check 9 the speed they were driving on every street in Ogden but on, the traffic was going slower with the 35 mile per hour speed limit than it was with the 25. Now the next question you ask is what that other street is. The 24th street viaduct. LR: And how fast were they going there? DE: Just slightly over 35. LR: That makes sense. It's a long stretch. DE: Yeah. But the two streets that people objected to, we measured that several times in the driveways of the people who were objecting and found that traffic was slower at the 35 mile an hour speed limit than the 25. Today, the city council has lowered the speed on those two streets and watch out. Because they can set up a road block and give tickets. LR: And those two streets are? DE: 16th Street and Collins Boulevard. LR: And remind me again where Collins Boulevard is? DE: As drive out on Harrison and come past 2nd street, 1st street, there's Collins Boulevard goes down and circles and then goes onto North Street. So if you're going down to Walmart, you out there on Collins Boulevard down to Walmart, or, Lowes, which is on the corner there of North and Washington. And you can also go down to D.I. from there. LR: So being on this committee of parking, did you ever have the opportunity to look at the parking on and around 25th street. 10 DE: Yes. LR: And how did that change? DE: Well, we went from angle parking to parallel parking so that you could have more traffic lanes. LR: Okay. DE: Now they are back to angle parking. LR: Which do you think is more effective? DE: Well it depends on what you want to do. The reason they went to angle parking is because they'd have a lot of people that wanted to park there. But for every person who pulls in and backs out, they block traffic, because there is only one lane. So with the two lanes, our philosophy was, traffic would flow smoother but there wasn't as many parking places. So it's a ball game, there is no answer to those. LR: So did you enjoy being a part of that? DE: Oh yes. LR: Why was that enjoyable to you? DE: I interviewed people after we raised the speed limit and I said: How come you're going slower? And people would say: I don't know, I didn't realize I was. I'm thinking more about traffic and the traffic controls and I don't worry about the speed. Where the speed limit is lower, you're watch your speedometer all the time to watch out and see what is happening. 11 LR: Kind of going back in time a little bit. You mentioned that you would take hay, I assume from up in Eden, down to the POWs during the war. DE: During the second World War, out where the fair grounds are out in the DDO, out in the north area there, approximately where the fairgrounds, the race track and such, that was a cavalry unit. I mean that's cavalry with horses. Just south of that was a prisoner of war camp where the Italian prisoners of war were. We did have a few Germans but the Germans were put up into Idaho. When we were hauling milk for the dairy, we had two trucks. One truck we'd pick it up in Liberty and the other we'd pick it up in Eden and then put it all on one truck to bring it down here, so we'd have the other truck available. So I would use that truck to haul straw from Eden down to the cavalry unit there. The Italian prisoners of war would come over and unload my truck for me. Then so, those Italian prisoners of war were used for the cannery, for beets, sugar beets, if you know what sugar beets were, they were work. To pick the beet up, cut the top off and then throw them in the bin. But they made sugar out of that, the sugar beets. They worked in those areas too. There were a bunch of those after they went back to Italy, they returned here and if you found out whose those names are, there are some prominent names from those Italians who came back. LR: Do you remember some on those? DE: Well, the one had a store, a restaurant, on the corner of 27th and Washington, on the northeast corner. And If I remember right, that was Rigo. I think the Marconi's were involved there too. 12 LR: Were you even able to communicate with these POWs or were they able to communicate with you? DE: I couldn't understand them and they couldn't understand me. No. Although some of them knew a little bit of English. But they were busy doing the work. LR: So, have you been on 25th street in the last 10 years? DE: Oh yes. I go down there, that pawn shop down there at the bottom. I've dealt with him a bit, yes. LR: Do you think it's changed for the better? DE: Yes. They have some real nice restaurants there and this farmer market bit down there on Saturdays, that's big. See, the original building there on 20, well the city and county building that was there, that was built by the WPA. Do you know what the WPA was? LR: I do. DE: WPA, PWA. LR: I couldn't tell you what it stands for but I could tell you what they did. DE: You know what buildings they built here? LR: I do. They build the city and county building here, Ogden High and the Forestry building. Les Hobson designed them. DE: Now, the CCC Boys. Up in The Valley, they had a CCC boy's camp. Actually, the lake covers that location right now but it was right next to where David O. McKay's farm was down there, which is under the lake. The CCC Boys built the 13 road up to snow basin. The reason that old road was so nice and curvy is because they had the maximum of man power and the least amount of equipment and so they took the easiest way and curved that road. You're too young, you don't remember that road. It's closed now, but it was the old road that went up to Snow Basin. This friend of mine worked with the CCC Boys, now they had two scrapers that they would use with teams of horses to pull the scraper. The Fresno was a lower one and I can't remember the name of the other one but it had a big boom on it and you'd raise that one up like this and dig down to get a load of dirt in there and pull back on it to lift the blade so that you could haul that and then dump it where ever you wanted. So this one friend of mine, some of those CCC Boys were not familiar with that kind of work, so this one young man told this one boy: "Always hang onto that bar, don't let go of that bar." Well, what's going to happen if you're digging in there and you hit rock, that blade is going to flip up! And this kid hanging onto that bar hit a rock and sailed over the top of the horses. But anyways, that was a big project for the CCC Boys. They also did a lot of terracing. In 1937, they had a real lot of rain like this and they had floods coming down the canyons. If you go along the highway 89 headed for Salt Lake, you can see some rock figures where they blocked that off. Up in Willard, that flood is so bad that it raised that road and you'll notice that the houses on the west side of Willard are down lower because that mud came down there and they have that one rock fixture for run off of that canyon. That was a wet year. Consequently, the CCC Boys would go up into Willard Bay, in Monte Cristo and terrace, so that the rain wouldn't come down. This is what some of 14 those people need to do with these fire zones, is to go in and terrace those so that the water will not go in an wash down and fill their houses with mud. LR: That would be a smart thing to do. So you were starting to talk about going into the gift shop. DE: The pawn shop. LR: Yeah, in recent years, have you dealt with Scott, the owner of that. DE: Oh, I just know who he is. LR: So you actually went into that shop earlier, right? Do you think his shop has changed much or do you think it's kind of stayed the same? DE: The one part of it had pretty much stayed the same. But he has enlarged a little bit there. He's an interesting person. LR: Yes, he is. I agree with you. So you think 25th street had changed for the better. Do you think there is anything else they could do to make it a better street? DE: I don't know. I think they got the right idea. I think they're going the right direction on it because some of those stores are doing good, of course, they could make museums out of a couple of them. LR: Well, I have pretty much asked all of my questions but I wanted to ask if there was anything else you wanted to add? DE: Well, just that I enjoy this area. I lived in California, down in the Los Angeles area and I'll tell you one story there. This was back in '45, '46, no couldn't have been. '46 or '47. They had just laid out the plan for the freeways and they had a unit 15 down there in Los Angeles where they were showing this and I went in there and I looked at that map of those freeways and this friend of mine, well there were four of us there, and I said: "This is going to be the biggest traffic jam this area has ever seen." And I went to describe that, not realizing that the guy who designed it was standing right behind me. Well, anyway, he didn't change anything, he didn't believe me. Later I went down there and that was the biggest traffic jam down in that area. In fact, we had a convention down there and it was going to be in the big stadium they had at the time. As I got onto that freeway heading in there I was with other people who were going with us to that same location and I took one look at the traffic on there and I jumped off because I had driven around there, because I knew the area, so I used the other streets and I got there to the convention. I was there for an hour and a half before those other people came. LR: So did that experience help you with, I know you didn't design streets, but did that help you with when you were trying to figure out speed and what not? DE: At the time I was on that committee, they built Harrison, the road from Harrison and 21st street to 12th street coming down the hill there. They built that and it was real nice, that's a good street. Our debate, what should the speed limit be on that street. So we put radar up on that street to measure the speed what traffic was going and debated, we had an argument. But I won out and that speed limit was set at 50 miles an hour and today you'll find people going a little faster than 50 miles an hour coming down that hill. But coming down that hill you've got to 16 watch out for deer because the deer will go across there. But anyway, that was one yes. LR: Well, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate the interview you have done with us and we'll wrap up. DE: Well, it's been enjoyable. LR: It has been. DE: Thank you. 17

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