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Transcript of an oral history interview with Robert F. Crecco, conducted by Jennifer Payne on 28 August 2013, at the Norwich University campus in Northfield, Vermont, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Robert Crecco was a member of the Norwich University Class of 1947; his education was interrupted by his military service in World War II. His experiences during the war and as a student at Norwich University are discussed in his interview. ; WWII WW2 World War II World War Two World War 2 ; Robert F. Crecco Oral History Interview Interview Date: August 28, 2013 Interview Location: Sullivan Museum & History Center, Norwich University Interviewed by Jennifer K. Payne Transcribed by Thomas H. King III JENNIFER PAYNE: Today is August 28th 2013 and I'm with… ROBERT CRECCO: Robert Crecco and, what else would you like to know? JENNIFER PAYNE: What is your date of birth? ROBERT CRECCO: April 27th 1925. JENNIFER PAYNE: And where were you born? ROBERT CRECCO: Medford Massachusetts JENNIFER PAYNE: And where are we right now? ROBERT CRECCO: We're in Killington at the Woods Resort where we've been coming for the last eight years and we're up here for July and August. JENNIFER PAYNE: What is the address we are at? ROBERT CRECCO: This is 53 Woods Road, Killington Vermont. JENNIFER PAYNE: Thank You. JENNIFER PAYNE: Alright. So I've got some questions I'm going to ask you again from the survey if that's ok? ROBERT CRECCO: Yes. JENNIFER PAYNE: Okay. So how and why did you join the service? ROBERT CRECCO: Join the service? JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: I was drafted, and I was drafted while I was attending Norwich as a freshman, and I was inducted in Montpellier and then sent to Fort Devens for pulmonary activities and then sent to, I think it was Fort McClellan in Alabama for basic training. JENNIFER PAYNE: Where were you when you were drafted? ROBERT CRECCO: I was at Norwich and I think there was about a 179 freshmen at that time and the school was basically taken over by the Air Corps. There were 1200 Air Force Cadets and so the school revolved around them and it's surprisingly that Norwich had a freshmen class. All the classes had left, the junior and seniors were immediately inducted in to the service and the sophomores were being decimated by drafting and so forth. So the school basically, (coughs) was empty and I guess they had a contract with the Air Force to give the Air Force the basic training in education I guess and also calisthenics and everything else. So we merged within basic we didn't, all the dormitories were taken up by the Air Force and so we stayed in the fraternity houses. I stayed in the Theta Chi house and then SAE and Sig Up were also occupied then there was another one and I can't think of the name and then there was a four or fifth one called the Lanscers. So, we freshmen were in those places and we had Air Force non-coms as our instructors and, I think, the academic courses were all those set up for the, for the Air Force so we took the same courses. Which was basically a little different from the normal Norwich curriculum, like we took Chemistry, Physics, Geography, I think we took English, and Mathematics. There were five courses as I remember and we didn't sit in with the Air Force. Our classes were with ourselves so you know the, the freshmen. But we had the same curriculum as the Air Force, because I guess the faculty was geared to do that and so we participated. So I got drafted out of Norwich, (clears throat) I (un-audible) my throat here. JENNIFER PAYNE: Do you want a glass of water? ROBERT CRECCO: That would be good. JENNIFER PAYNE: Okay, alright. ROBERT CRECCO: And I was the first one to be drafted. Cause basic I was I think I was the about the oldest follow in the, the group. I was 18 in April in my senior year in high school and most of the, the fellows with me were under 18 and, that's the reason why I was the first one to get drafted, because I was the oldest one in the class. JENNIFER PAYNE: What year, what exact year and month was that, do you recall? ROBERT CRECCO: Well I graduated in 1943. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And, we started. I think we started in August and, I believe it was August, it was early, actually it was, it was, it was a little undecided whether Norwich is going to have a freshmen class and so, we didn't know until just before they asked us to come up that they were going to have a, a freshmen class. JENNIFER PAYNE: How did you decide to go to Norwich? ROBERT CRECCO: Well, a neighbor of mine, was at Norwich. Ya know he, I was talking with him before he even came up and he sort of convinced me it was the place to be and so I said ok and he was a freshmen, but then when I got up to Norwich there was actually no classes there and I found out later on that he had received an appointment to West Point. And so he would even if the, the whole discombobulation hadn't happened because of the war he probably would have left any way and, and even though he convinced me to come up, that he wouldn't have been there and, I lost track of, his name was Louie (Lacanti) and I lost track of him, and the strange, on our last cruise or a transatlantic in last past April one of the people with us at our table was a Colonel. Who had been at West Point when Louie was there and so I asked if he knew Louie and he said, not really, he says I know the name. And I said can you check later on to find out whatever happened to Louie but I never did hear from this person. But anyway I, I, I, as I say I get drafted and, inducted in Montpellier, and then they made me acting corporal to take the crew down to Fort Devens (Chuckles) on the train at that time there was a train travelling back and forth between Montreal and White River Junction. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm. ROBERT CRECCO: And it split in one part went to New York and one part went to Boston. So we get down to Fort Devens and, eventually get to my basic training at Fort McClellan. JENNIFER PAYNE: So did you have a choice in where you went or.? ROBERT CRECCO: No I didn't but they told me at Fort Devens that, I was to be put in Army Specialized Training. Called ASTP, Army, specializing training program. Yeah. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And that I was scheduled to go to Texas A&M for the specialized training, but three months later after basic, conditions changed and the war plans and so forth and they decided to cancel all ASTP programs and, since we were being trained as an infantrymen we were to go back to that and we shipped out for England about a month later. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow. ROBERT CRECCO: And so we're on a troop ship that went to, went to England we came in at Bristol England. It was on an Australian, meat, refrigerator ship. I guess they used to bring mutton from Australia to England with it but that was our troop ship and it was pretty bad. It was run by, by Australians and we'd have some real, real bad food. But anyway it was, it was, it wasn't that bad. JENNIFER PAYNE: What, what was the food do you remember? ROBERT CRECCO: Oh things like, fish for breakfast, and then something like a porridge, ya know it was almost like gruel. Ya know and some bread. Things like that and I don't remember much about dinner. We didn't have lunch. We had breakfast and then we had dinner early and I can't remember much about the dinner. JENNIFER PAYNE: That's okay ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah JENNIFER PAYNE: But it was, it was not a fun ship it was ROBERT CRECCO: Oh no, no JENNIFER PAYNE: (Chuckles) ROBERT CRECCO: We were packed in there like sardines. And the smell below deck wasn't too great. JENNIFER PAYNE: What did it smell like? ROBERT CRECCO: Well sweat, and people, and ya know that sort of thing you get used to it after a while but we were always up on deck when we could be. JENNIFER PAYNE: What did you do to pass the time on the ship? ROBERT CRECCO: Well we used to have, formations, and calisthenics, and lectures. Ya know military indoctrinations so forth. But that was it. JENNIFER PAYNE: So what happened when you got to Bristol? ROBERT CRECCO: Well we went into, went into camp. Near a place called Leamington. And we're in tents and I think there were what four, four men to a tent, yeah, and all we did was march, and march, and march up and down all those, those winding roads in, in England and of course we got leave. But they told us, ya know, don't go to the restaurants because they don't have much food and you got all the food you need right in camp. But we did get fish and chips and you go into a place and ya get a, a newspaper full of a, of the fish and chips and they were delicious, they were delicious. At that time they were using Cod and we heard later that there was a Cod war between England and Iceland cause England was in Icelandic waters and there was a standoff there and they had destroyers and there Icelandic trawlers out there with guns on them and I guess they came to an agreement any way but… (Laughs) JENNIFER PAYNE: (Laughing) ROBERT CRECCO: Cod, Cod was a, is a very well-known food in Europe. All the, all those foreign countries sent trawlers way over near off Nova Scotia for Cod and so forth. But that goes on too long and there's not much Cod left there. JENNIFER PAYNE & ROBERT CRECCO: So JENNIFER PAYNE: Yep ROBERT CRECCO: I guess you'd want me to continue with this… JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah ROBERT CRECCO: What we're doing over in England. Well after it seemed like a long time with this, this training over there. We finally get word to, pack up and, get on these trucks and low and behold we're in South Hampton and they loaded us on ships and the, the, the initial attack on the continent had, had begun. And we were on the ship I think overnight and then finally we sailed the next day and it was on the second day. I forget the, what it was June 6th, June 6th was the initial, yeah, so it would be June 7th, late in the, late in June, late on the June 7th, that we landed in Omaha beach. JENNIFER PAYNE: What was that like? ROBERT CRECCO: Well, it was still a mess, ya know the fighting had proceeded up off the cliff and they were going inland and the beach was littered with all kinds of equipment, there were some, still some, dead bodies on the beach, they had been lined up and so forth and I guess they were in the process of taking them off. And so after we get off from the beach we went up on the, on the, on the top of the cliffs. They had already pushed a couple of miles inland. The, the Rangers had cleared the cliffs the previous day even though they sustained quiet heavy casualties. And then the 20, I think it was the 24 th, 24th or 29th, I'm not sure, yeah we didn't know what was going on. All we knew was that we had to get off the, the landing craft but we didn't know it was, what was, we could hear the, the, the noise up ahead, ya know the shells and everything. They were still bombarding the area from the, the battleships and the cruisers and they were still shelling way inland but, then we got up of the area there and they kept us there for a while and then they told us to advance and evidently the, the advance, the lead troops had pushed way inland. And so we weren't in the front line at that time we were in the backup and, I think maybe ten days later I was with the second infantry division. And about ten days later, we were near Saint-Lô. And, cause the approaches of Saint-Lô was surrounded by small villages. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And the, we were near a village as I remember, it was called Sofria, Sofree, Sofra? I don't know how they pronounce it. And it was near that village where I was on a patrol and I got, I got wounded. By a, a mortar shell. JENNIFER PAYNE: What happened? ROBERT CRECCO: Well we were on patrol it was, it was at night, and ya know that whole country there is full of hedge rows. And these hedge rows would, would be, you'd have roads going, not roads even, these were dirt roads going between the hedge rows and then across the hedge, or on the near side of the hedge row would be a little pasture and then on the other side road would be another hedge row and then a pasture and the hedge rows all the way around that's how the country in, in Normandy was, was either made that way by the people or I, I don't know but anyway Normandy was full of hedge rows and it was very difficult fighting in those areas. But then we were on patrol at night. Patrol is you go over a hedge row and then you'd sit there and see what the opposition or the Germans were going to do. Whether they were putting out patrols either and this is known as feeling out what the enemy is doing and so they, they, they must have seen us because they sent over three mortar shells and there were three of us and the Sergeant got killed and I was wounded and the other g-, the other fellow he didn't get hit at all. So we dragged the Sergeant back to the, our lines and I got wounded in the arm and also my foot so I got evacuated. At that time they were evacuating everybody to England. They, they had, we had, we had controlled some air fields so we're able to get these ambulance plans there and, so they'd load them into one of those and I got evacuated to England. To a general hospital near Oxford. JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah ROBERT CRECCO: Oxford and, what was the other town? I can't think of the name of the town now that, Shakespeare. JENNIFER PAYNE: Stratford-Avon ROBERT CRECCO: Stratford-Avon, right, ha, was near there, because for activities they took us to Stratford-Avon to and we went to see the Shakespearian plays. JENNIFER PAYNE: When you recuperated. ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah, yeah, so I was in the, I was in the general hospital for about two months JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: Cause I couldn't walk. And then, then it got infected. So I was there for about two months and they reclassified me as limited service but then they sent me back to France. But ya know while we were in England, we, we had, it was pretty good. We got to visit a lot of places and see a lot of those Shakespearian plays. And anyway I got sent back, on reassignment, and they sent us back to Paris. And I was in a reassignment depot and we got some leaves to Paris and so, I went to Paris and it was all right but, ya know I was really not into it. And I was still pretty young and some of these guys were hept for getting drunk and then picking up women or and actually going to some of the whore houses and I was, I wasn't into that. I didn't enjoy Paris that much. But anyway, when I got, we got reassigned. Since I was on limited duty I wasn't going to go to a, a combat, well not combat, but I wouldn't be going to a front line outfit and so I ended up in, in 90th division of 5, 547th? What was that? It was 530, no, yeah 537th headquarters battery on an automatic weapon, it was an automatic weapons battery, they had multiple 50s mounted on halftracks, and they had anti-aircraft guns and I was in the headquarters duty, (Chuckles), and they were looking around to put me to do something all of a sudden it was, this Warrant Officer was in charge, he said, you went to, you went to college didn't you? And I said, (Chuckles), well we're going to have you do the morning report. And the morning report was a form and description as you put what happened of what happened in the battery and how many, how many, how many were killed, how many were wounded, how many were sick, how many had to go to the rear and then what the activity of the battery was that day. And it had to be signed by the commanding officer of, of our group which was a captain and, that was my job, which was a nothing job, ya know. Which was fine by me because it kept me out of the frontlines being on limited duty. So that's how I survived the war and when the war ended we were in occupation duty, which wasn't too much and all the fellows were fraternizing which was against the rules but either during, during the war or towards the end, the last few months some of the fellas who knew German, because we had a couple German guys, the original group was from Texas and I guess where they were from there was a lot of German people and they, they knew German. But they would go out at night and bring food with them and go to these houses where they knew there were women and, so they used to have a pretty good time and they'd used to bring the food there, and then, course the people didn't have much food at that time so they were very well welcomed. But anyway after we got, after the war was over we sat around for, I think a month or so. And then we got sent up to, Amsterdam, oh Brussels, Brussels and we stayed in tents up there for a few weeks and then we saw the star, the star, Stars and Strips newspaper on day and big headlines was Atomic Bomb dropped on Japan, and then a, next day another bomb had been dropped. Well we were sitting there waiting for transportation back to the states and we were to be retrained for, well I wouldn't be but I would be with some unit that was going over to the Pacific, ya know for Japan and so the dropping of the bomb, we didn't understand, ya know the implications of this until we saw a reading in, in the Stars and Strips that the war was coming to a close in the Pacific and instead of being retrained for that we would be sent home and then they had a points system. They decided that the order in which you would go home be decided in the number of points you have and points took everything from years of service, overseas service, combat service, if you were wounded or something like that, so it all add up to these points and low and be hold I had enough points so I knew that as soon as we got a ship I'd be sent home and then eventually discharged. So I got home and they, where was it, not Fort McClellan, is there another camp, let's see. JENNIFER PAYNE: Po New York? Nope that was… ROBERT CRECCO: Well let's see. We did come in New York. But then we get, sent to another camp I think in Alabama, I can't remember the name. JENNIFER PAYNE: Do you remember where you were when you, when you heard, when VJ-day occurred? ROBERT CRECCO: I think, I think we were on the ship coming back. And it was a little better ship, it was a transport, and an American transport so coming back was, I think, I think it was either, was either on our last couple of days in camp in Brussels or on the ship that we heard that VJ-day had occurred. But by that time they already set the point system because they knew the war was coming to an end, after they dropped these bombs and so forth. And we, I got, I got that 30 day furlough when we, when we, when we got to this camp fort, I didn't say over here, Fort Brag, Fort Brag. We were sent to Fort Brag and then they gave us a 30 day leave from Fort Brag, so I spent it home in Medford and then we had to report back. Reported back and then they told us we were going to be discharged. So all this time back and forth and they could have done it right in the beginning but I guess they weren't ready. And so I get discharged and I came back to Medford and then all my old friends we got together. They were all out of the service too. And we just paled around for a couple months and I got tired of that so that's when I, I got in touch with, well I didn't get in touch with Norwich right away. I was looking around for what I wanted to do. And a doctor friend of my father's talked me into being an optometrist. A, with a medical degree though, it was not, it was a ophthalmologist, ophthalmologist. So he says, I will recommend you to go Pennsylvania, University of Pennsylvania and so I applied there and they came back and said, we are deluged by veterans and we can't take you for a year and a half. They suggested I go back to Norwich and take prescribed courses and at the end of my sophomore year they would take me in. And so I get in touch with Norwich and they say yeah come on back, (Laughing), and I said well, ya know I'm not keen on, on this military and they said, well we're giving veterans the option of going into the military, I mean the corps or coming in as civilians. So I opted for the civilian and so I came back to Norwich and they gave me credit for the courses I took when I was with the, taking the Air Corps curriculum. And there were just as many veterans back as there were Cadets in the Corps. Ya know they had started the Corps again and they were getting young fellas to come into the Corps. And I came back as a civilian and I roomed with Bob Dorman. JENNIFER PAYNE: Ah ROBERT CRECCO: And (Hobie?) Smith. Bob Dorman had been a junior here. Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And (Hobie?) Smith would have been a junior too and we roomed together in Alumni Hall. Alumni Hall was pretty crowded with all the civilians there and. Bob Dorman was sort of a screw up. All the years he remained a, a, a senior private in the corps (Laughing) and (Hobie?) Smith had been a corporal or a sergeant, I'm not sure, but Bob I think almost got thrown out of Norwich when he was here, before the war and he got involved with a girl from Barre and, this is when he came back afterwards and so he, he had his ups and downs with her and Hobby Smith and I were not involved with anybody we were just trying to get the job done that we came back to do and Bob Dorman a Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity guy and same with (Hobie?) Smith. So they both got me into Sigma Alpha Epsilon and after that first year in Alumni Hall I didn't live down in the SAE house and that was a good deal I didn't have to eat in the mess hall, we had our own cook who prepared all our meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and this was all for $25 a month. I mean but things were pretty, still pretty cheap there, there were people were making $18 dollars a week as clerks, ya know in stores. Salaries were pretty low it's no wonder we could live there for $25, so I, I, I was bunking in a room with Lenny (Fillam?). Lenny (Fillam?), the fish man we used to call him, cause his father owned a wholesale fish company in Boston and Bob Dorman's father was, was a correspondent for associated press, he's from New Jersey. And (Hobie?) Smith was Connecticut I think his father was a lawyer. So we, at that time I was getting support from the VA for college, I was, I was on the PL 16 because I was disabled and I was getting more money then you would've regularly get. And I had, in order to get the PL 16 I had to tell them what I was studying for and I was, I was taking, courses that Pennsylvania had said I should take. I was taking German, analytical geometry, calculus, physics, chemistry then I took an elective in history. And I was plowing through that but not doing too well. Ya know I did alright in chemistry but physics, the labs were killing me and mathematics, analytical geometry I was doing alright in that, German I was, the first year was ok, the second year I just couldn't hack it. So I wasn't doing too well in these courses they wanted me take in preparation for opthalamy, optho-, ophthalmology. In, in Pennsylvania and I was beginning to like history and English. So ya know I, I, I was getting B's and C's but a lot of C's in, in the courses they wanted me to take. So I decided this wasn't for me and I started taking more English and history courses and I decided to drop all this other stuff. And I had put down for the VA I was going to be a teacher. And then I remember my senior year I had courses in teaching and I have to practice teaching at Northfield High and after a fe-, couple of semesters of that I said this wasn't for me either. (Laughing) So I, I, these, these kids in, in Northfield High weren't interested in history at all. (Laughing) I don't know what they were interested in but I could tell I wasn't making the head way so I decided to drop that and I was on the newspaper in my senior year I became editor of the Guidon. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And I decided this was a thing I'd like to be in, public relations or writing, editing and so forth. And so I graduated in history and I was able to take summer courses and everything else so I get out. I got my degree in two and a half years. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: And cause I went summers and everything else and I took accelerated courses which they offered to veterans cause lot of them, a lot of these veterans were married. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And some had children and they had a veteran's village made up of surplus government trailers. JENNIFER PAYNE: Where was this, where'd the put them? ROBERT CRECCO: It, it, ya know on rt.12A? JENNIFER PAYNE: Uhuh ROBERT CRECCO: There was a pasture in there where they set these up and it was veteran's village and these married people were there and some of them had children. And I remember they'd get extra money, these married veterans selling sandwiches at night and so forth. JENNIFER PAYNE: They sold sandwiches, what kind of sandwiches? ROBERT CRECCO: Well they would make ham sandwiches and roast beef and stuff like that and they would come around at night and we would buy the sandwiches from them. And, that was one of the interesting, ya know they were doing all sorts of things to get extra money cause the, what the government was paying them wasn't, wasn't enough. And they had to pay rent in those trailers. But any way, I graduated in 1948 as the class of '47 and my roommate had, was getting married, Bob Dorman getting married (Laughing) he, he was a character. He, he got into an argument with his wife and they were downtown Montpelier and he jumped off the bridge into the Winooski River. He got so mad at her or something like that. JENNIFER PAYNE: On Stonecutter's Way? ROBERT CRECCO: What's that? JENNIFER PAYNE: On Stonecutter's Way, that bridge? The little bridge. ROBERT CRECCO: The Bridge entering Montpelier JENNIFER PAYNE: Oh, from Rt. 12, yeah. ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah, right JENNIFER PAYNE: He jumped into the… ROBERT CRECCO: He jumped off the bridge there. And another time he went into the what is now the, the hotel. Not, not the Pavilion, at the. What is it? The, the Hotel in Montpelier. JENNIFER PAYNE: Oh the Capital Plaza. ROBERT CRECCO: The Capital Plaza yeah, it was not the Capital Plaza it was some other name and he was so mad at something he, well he was drunk too he got in and just ripped the toilet off. (Laughing) He, he was, he was a big guy, he, he played on the football team and he get so incensed at something and then he was drunk, he pulled up, just pulled up the toilet off the. JENNIFER PAYNE: The whole thing, not the lid? ROBERT CRECCO: No he just pulled up the whole, the whole toilet and of course there's water all over the place. But any way he got into trouble all the time, but he eventually married this woman and they had, they had three or four children. In fact he still has a son that I think live in Castleton. Last time I talked to Bob, he was, he was at the University of Kansas, on the military staff there. He was a Major, and that was the last time I talked to him. He, he died of a heart attack soon after that. JENNIFER PAYNE: Oh. ROBERT CRECCO: And (Hobie?) Smith I lost track of all together. And (Vinny Vesch?) who was, a chem major and who was our, our house steward at the SAE house. I met him once in Tom's River. He was working for the national light company. He was a chemical engineer down there and actually one of my fraternity brothers, put me on to the job I eventually got when I, when I left Norwich. Working for General Electric. JENNIFER PAYNE: What did you do? ROBERT CRECCO: I was an editorial assistant. So he knew, he knew I was editor of the Guidon and he knew that I was interested in that kind of work. So when heard that this opportunity, he graduated a year before me. Or was it two years? I forget, but any way he was from Swampscott Massachusetts and he was working for GE too and he heard about this opening there and I applied for it and I got the job because I put together a portfolio of the two years I worked on the Guidon and I was able to bring that and show that. I even had some letters in there were I corresponded with President Dodge. JENNIFER PAYNE: Oh really? ROBERT CRECCO: On various things, one of them I remember our football team was losing by big scores and I said. I wrote an editorial and I said let's do something about this or stop football. University of Vermont, UVM had dropped football and we used to play them and we did pretty well with them but they dropped it because they couldn't, couldn't hack it either. So I said we should either drop football or let's go out and get some people to come to Norwich who can play football. Well he, he didn't like my editorial, he, he took issue with it so he and I had a conference with it and I had written, I wrote a letter in response to that meeting we had. So I had that sort of stuff in the portfolio (Laughing). So, and Dodge was a nice guy, I liked him. He was, he was quite an outdoorsman. He liked to kayak, and canoe, he, he was quite an expert in canoeing and kayaking and he had done a lot of trips into the wilderness, ya know I'd say. And he eventually, I think went back to Bowdoin. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm. In Maine? ROBERT CRECCO: I, I think yeah Maine, on the faculty there after he left Norwich. Well, but any way I got this job at General Electric as an editorial assistant and eventually I became an editor. And I was transferred to. I worked in Lyne, Lyne Massachusetts and then I got transferred to, get a newspaper going in Cincinnati at the jet engine, new, a new jet engine plant. So I got transferred out there. JENNIFER PAYNE: So you started a, you were working a newspaper or you were working at the plant? ROBERT CRECCO: Well the plant had a newspaper. JENNIFER PAYNE: Ah, gotcha ROBERT CRECCO: So it was a weekly newspaper. And so that's what I was putting out and then when I went to Lockland Ohio that's where the plant was, near Cincinnati. I started one there. JENNIFER PAYNE: You started a newspaper? ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah JENNIFER PAYNE: What was it called? ROBERT CRECCO: It was called the GE News at the jet engine plant and I stayed in that field I, I eventually left GE went to work for AT&T in Cincinnati also working on publications. Several publications that I started working on and report and then I started flip charts for instructions and so forth and I eventually left them and went to work for… (inaudible) I had a short stint, with an advertising agency. And then I went to work for… the greeting card company. JENNIFER PAYNE: Hallmark? ROBERT CRECCO: Hallmark. JENNIFER PAYNE: What was that like? ROBERT CRECCO: Well I was a director of sales promotion. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: And I was working with a sales force of about 400 people. Wow ROBERT CRECCO: All over, all over the country and they were in various regions and districts and so it was my job to put these fellas to sell. JENNIFER PAYNE: How did you do that? ROBERT CRECCO: Well, I used to. I put out a weekly publication. That had standings of salesmen and also hints in how to sell and so forth. Salesmen who did a, a, a good selling job and how they did it I'd, I'd translate into how you might do it too and course I was getting 2% of the sales. I was working for the Vice President of the sales and he must have been getting 10%. And I was getting 2%. And so I used to put out this publication and then I'd used to travel out to the salesmen and help them build up sales promotion, projects they could sell this to their customers. Our customers where in the whole gamut from banks, to feed companies, to the big companies, big national companies. Cause we, in addition to lot of printed material we sold we also sold executive gifts made of teak and so forth. And so these executive gifts were, were quite expensive. Could be desk sets, or could be, could be what would you call them? Ice buckets. JENNIFER PAYNE: Oh yeah ROBERT CRECCO: Made of teak and then inside would be a glass bowel and so forth all different kinds of boxes and so forth. They, these were all finely made in teak and they would sell those as well as sell Hallmark calendars and kinds of dodades, ya know like pens, and any kind of a trinket. And so these men would, would, would put together their sales pitches and have all these things on display. And they did very well some of these guys and we, we got the wives involved. We had a, at that time. Do you remember green stamps? JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm. I do. ROBERT CRECCO: HNS green stamps JENNIFER PAYNE: That's right ROBERT CRECCO: We used to give those away to the salesmen and we had a catalogue that they put out. And you could get anything from a grand piano down to a charcoal barbeque. So we gave those away as well as, as other things special and so forth and these were all incentive programs. And that was my job to get these guys incentive programs to get them to sell JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: And then I eventually decided that I had enough of that and I came to Washington. And I went to work for a, a portion control meat company JENNIFER PAYNE: Hmmm ROBERT CRECCO: And when I got to there. I, I was sorry I got into that mess there. So I had made some friends in Washington and they told me about a job available with a lobby outfit. Highway lobby. JENNIFER PAYNE: Oh yeah ROBERT CRECCO: And it was known as the Highway Safety Federation and eventually became, merged with another one to become the Highway Users Federation and they had organizations in every city, every state. There is one in here, probably in Montpelier. I'm pretty sure there was one located there. JENNIFER PAYNE: Was it like AAA? Did it become AAA? ROBERT CRECCO: No it wasn't AAA it was still the Highway Users Federation. It was supported by the automobile companies, advertising companies, suppliers, all kinds of automobile suppliers, and it was the auto industry. The idea was to build roads. JENNIFER PAYNE: Right ROBERT CRECCO: To build more roads and… JENNIFER PAYNE: Did you like that? ROBERT CRECCO: It, it was alright. We put up publications that, that was in publications and we had conferences with the Highway User Federations. And the idea was to help the state federations work with the highway people to build roads. And course there were a lot of people didn't like the highway people because they felt they were building over the country. But anyway I worked with them naturally we, we had close, close working with the, the U.S. Department of Transportation. JENNIFER PAYNE: Sure ROBERT CRECCO: So I had a friend, who was in the, who was in the, the administration was Highway Safety, that was it, Highway Safety and he became the administrator of this division in the Department of Transportation. So, they needed somebody to work in sort of a lobby group. The government can't lobby but they can get other people to do it for them. So he asked me to come in to work as a coordinator for a program that he wanted to do with Highway Safety and one of the big things in safety that time was that there was a lot of drunk driving and the deaths on the highway had reached I think about 26,000. 26,000 highway deaths, many of them due to drunk driving. JENNIFER PAYNE: Annually ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah annually so he asked me to come in and coordinate a program and they had determined the best way to reach this drunk driving problem was through women. That wives, sweet hearts, and etc. etc. would have more influence on the men how were doing this drunk driving. So one of the things we were going to do was have a, a national conference in Washington and my job was to work with the, putting together this national conference. So that must have been, 19, 1940, somewhere around there. And so we did we, we, we got a lot of national organizations to put up the money cause the, the government couldn't put up the money this. It had to be through national organizations and companies so forth. And so we put together a three day conference in Washington. In the conference was to invite women leaders. These women leaders were from garden clubs, from political organizations, and other people who were leaders in their community, other women who were leaders in their community. And we invited I think about 2,000 women to come to this national conference in Washington. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: And, we had to put together a program to, in order to get women involved in drunk driving and so we had all garden clubs and there were all these women from women's clubs and we invited them. They, they had to pay their way, but we paid, they had to pay their way and also their hotel room and then we got the companies to put up the money for the conferences, the meals, all the printing material everything. They, they paid for that, they were (Coughs) there were companies in the automobile business, companies in highway building, advertising companies, anybody associated with, with highways. And we put together a three day conference and we had a lot of political people involved and we had vice president, vice president's wife involved. She was our chairman, our honorary chairman and so forth. And… JENNIFER PAYNE: Was that Eleanor, or who, who was the president, who was the VP at the time? Do you remember? ROBERT CRECCO: Volpe. JENNIFER PAYNE: Volpe? ROBERT CRECCO: Was the secretary of transportation. JENNIFER PAYNE: Uh huh ROBERT CRECCO: And, he had, oh I can't think of his name. He used to be governor, governor of, I can't think who he was governor of, but he was a governor and his wife, Mrs. Volpe. When I knew Volp… Volpe had been governor of Massachusetts and he was then appointed to be secretary of transportation and then his assistant secretary had also been governor of Massachusetts. And, his wife was the titular head of our conference. Course we had kinds of government people speaking and so forth and we had a lot of women speakers and we had a three day conference on drunk driving. JENNIFER PAYNE: Was it the first real big national one that you'd you had? ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah, the first big national, push to reduce drunk driving on the highways. Because the, the death and injuries from drunk driving had reached proportions that the government was concerned. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And out of that conference grew the, the government's program that reached all the way from upgrading the police forces with training and vehicles to apprehend drunk driving on the highways and then after you apprehended them you had to have a judicial system to deal with it and then you had to have a penal system to deal with it. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And then you had to have instruction in the various parts of the, the city system, the state system to teach people the dangers of drunk driving, over drinking and so forth. Then you had to have the medical people involved too because these people were habitual drinkers that were involved in this and you had to have a, a system set up to deal with it. So it went all the way down through all the strata's that you had to go through in order to deal with driving drunk on the highways JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: And to reduce the casualties that happened from drunk driving and then the impact it had on homes and so forth. So it went into all facets and the Federal Highway Administration had to deal with this and they had to set up all the various facets of, of, of state and local government to deal with it. And over the years it proved to be workable at the reducing of drunk driving. And so I think now drunk driving is still a problem not, not the problem it would have been with all the facets that had been brought in to deal with it and… JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: We had a three day conference and with all these women coming in. Mostly, mostly women cause it was set up for that. Because we felt that women had the greatest influence in through their families, in the men and so forth to reduce the drunk driving. JENNIFER PAYNE: How did, how did you, what did you tell the women? What was the message that you, or was it multipronged? ROBERT CRECCO: It was multipronged we, I, I, think that the clinical studies I mean clinical facilities that were set up to deal with this helped. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: Because a lot of these men were, were drunkards and, and needed medical as well as psychological training I guess. And you have that situation today. Where you, you have the courts set up, and you have the, the social, social welfare organizations set up to deal with it that we didn't have before and this was all the result of this early, early effort. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow, that's terrific. ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah, and I stayed in the Department of Transportation after that, but I, I, I went to public influence type things. JENNIFER PAYNE: Lobbying at a different level? ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah, yeah lobbying but, it was, really I, I, I got away from most of that and got into more public relations. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: In the Department of Transportation and that's, I retired from the Department of Transportation. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow ROBERT CRECCO: I was there for many years. I think I was there for 14 years. Yeah, that's, that's what I retired from. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow. So it sounds like you stay in touch with your Norwich classmates? The ones you… ROBERT CRECCO: I became secretary of the class. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And that's how I stayed in contact, but actually I stayed in contact with… Let's see, what did I say in here? JENNIFER PAYNE: It didn't mention your Purple Heart. ROBERT CRECCO: Oh I didn't? JENNIFER PAYNE: No you didn't. You won a purple heart? ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah I, I was… JENNIFER PAYNE: As well as… ROBERT CRECCO: I was wounded, I was wounded on that pat-, that patrol on… JENNIFER PAYNE: Yep ROBERT CRECCO: We're, yeah we were on a patrol and we were hit by motor shells. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And I got wounded in the arm and the foot and I got evacuated to England. I think we talked about this. JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah, yeah ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah JENNIFER PAYNE: But that's what you got the Purple Heart for. ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah I got the Purple Heart for that. JENNIFER PAYNE: And Emit campaign medal with four bronze service stars. ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah that was, that was well the invasion and then I was, I was in, I joined the, the automatic weapons battalion in France after they had taken Paris. JENNIFER PAYNE: Okay. ROBERT CRECCO: And then I went with them all the way through, through the campaigns in, in the Ardennes and the… JENNIFER PAYNE: Central Europe. ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah then and… JENNIFER PAYNE: Okay, I just wanted to make sure we got that in because we had… ROBERT CRECCO: Yeah, yeah, yeah ok JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah, well… ROBERT CRECCO: And that was… Yeah I, I don't know is there… JENNIFER PAYNE: Is there anything else you want to say? You… ROBERT CRECCO: No I, I, I got, well after I decided I didn't want to go to the University of Pennsylvania I wanted to stay at Norwich. I became the editor of the Guidon. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And I enjoyed doing that also it was good training for what I got into later on. JENNIFER PAYNE: Right ROBERT CRECCO: I, I got into publication work and I became the director of publications at the telephone company in Cincinnati. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: And then from there I went to, went into sales promotion and I, I stayed in sales promotion and then I came into Washington with… JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah ROBERT CRECCO: With the, with the government. Actually I was with the Highway Users Federation. JENNIFER PAYNE: Umhmm ROBERT CRECCO: Prior to that. Then from that I went into the Department of Transportation. But no that's, that's about it I guess. JENNIFER PAYNE: Well thank you so much for your time. You have done a wonderful interview. It's going to be great. I can see a lot of people using it, so thank you so much for your time. ROBERT CRECCO: Good, I'm glad you thought so. JENNIFER PAYNE: Alright.