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Published interview of Brooks Hays in Nation's Cities (American Municipal Association)

Published interview of Brooks Hays in Nation's Cities (American Municipal Association) ; Can we resolve conflicts which divide three levels of government? NATION'S CITIES interviews Brooks Hays about federal responsibilities toward intergovernmental relations For 43 years Brooks Hays, special assistant to the President on intergovernmental relations, has served in a wide variety of local, state, regional, and federal assignments. From 1942 through 1958, he represented Arkansas' 5th District in the U. S. Congress. He was, prior to assuming his present post in December, 1961, a member of the Board of Directors of the Tennessee Valley Authority and Assistant Secretary of State for Congressional Relations. Mr. Hays, in your position as adviser to the President on intergovernmental matters, do you find yourself drawing much on previous experience? Certainly I do. You could say that I'm an ex-county official, an ex-state official, and ex-department official, and an ex-legislator. I must have been born for government, if not for politics. I ran four times for office before being elected, but I love public service. My first job was with the Treasury Department 43 years ago. When did intergovernmental activities begin to interest you? That's hard to say. Of course, my early experience was in county government, back in Pope County, Arkansas. I made $3 a day during county elections working for the election board. And in those days the court house was the chief focus for local government. A town of 2,000 didn't need much municipal government. But in the 1920s when I was in charge of the Civil Law Division in the Arkansas Attorney General's office, I became very much aware of the overlapping of governmental authority. On a national basis, my interest sharpened because I come from a poor state. It became important to me to know that federal grants, working through the states, were providing for better conditions in communities. I wish I had some case studies in poor towns and agricultural areas to see if victims of poverty have been aided by wise governmental actions. Too often representatives from poor counties go to larger governments for help instead of aligning themselves with fellow rural leaders to get the kind of changes that could lead to sound alternatives and progress. I'm sure that the problems of municipal government might be met much the same way. It is heartening that leadership at a national level, such as the American Municipal Association provides, is getting professionalism into overlapping areas in the states. It is making a real contribution to local government. We are interested in federal policy towards intergovernmental problems. Why is there any policy in this matter? There is pressing need to invade the jungle of governmental conflicts. We have reached a point in our complex society where you can't take state, municipal, and federal government and assume they will function properly with just occasional meetings in the corridor by members of committees appointed by cabinet members, governors, and mayors. Modern government should never be envisioned as a structure; it is an organism. The federal government, of course, has a big stake in effective state and local government. State and municipal 12 NATION'S CITIES • WINTER 1962

Published interview of Brooks Hays in Nation's Cities (American Municipal Association) ; governments are two sources which can help the federal government evaluate basic constitutional relationships. These relationships must be dynamic and flexible, because, after all, the mobility of people and of wealth are like nothing we've ever had. Half the American people are living in another state from where they were born. They are continuously moving. Some large groups, like the 800,000 migrant workers, don't stay in one place long enough to be represented by any-one in any government. But the federal government has the biggest stake in improving intergovernmental relations-access to the largest resources places us at the faucet, so to speak. Has there been similar concern in previous administrations? Yes. It began many years ago and was formalized in 1955 with the Kestnbaum Commission which did a great deal of work investigating the effect of grants-in-aid on state and local governments. Later, Governor Pyle, who was on President Eisenhower's staff, assisted Mr. Kestnbaum in attempting to implement their recommendations. Your post is not exactly a new idea? No. Fred Dutton had similar responsibilities earlier, also under President Kennedy. Of course, since the Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations was established in 1959, you almost require such a position on the President's staff, if only to be a bridge in intergovernmental relations. What does this Commission do? First of all, it is unique in that it is not a federal agency but rather a hybrid; it was established by Congress with the requirement that, of its 26 members, nine be federal, three public, seven state, and seven local. For example, the American Municipal Association, along with other public interest organizations, recommends the members representing local government. It is not like anything else in Washington in the federal government. Once created, it began to develop thoughtful recommendations for action in the field by all levels of government. I think the Commission has a bright future and has already matured rapidly. I hope that the states, cities, and counties will feel a sort of proprietary interest in its success. The Commission has sponsored legislation on a number of matters. Do you clear it? Not exactly. Frank Bane, the Commission's chairman, has a professional staff which works up legislative proposals for the Commission's approval. If the Commission chooses to sponsor a proposal, it certainly can go to Capitol Hill without White House endorsement. Of course, the Executive Branch members of the Commission, Secretaries Celebrezze and Dillon and Housing Administrator Weaver, have their own staff to analyze Commission recommendations before they make final decisions. How can municipal officials who have their own responsibilities benefit from the existence of your office? They benefit not by having someone with an antenna here, but rather in the whole functioning of the federal government on intergovernmental matters. Municipal needs are growing-any first-rate local official knows that personally-and they are going to be met substantially by intergovernmental cooperation as we improve the mechanisms of coordination and communication. Of course, if you mean that municipal officials already deal with a good many agencies in Washington, I agree. I don't want to enter into the normal workings of local, state, and federal officials which involve specific projects or proposals. They come up through the departments, the ordinary avenues, and, if the White House gets involved, say, to expedite a decision or to clarify policy, that would be handled by Ted Reardon, one of my colleagues on the White House staff. My office serves to emphasize the intergovernmental aspects of federal policies and programs. Since you have held this post, have you been able to identify some of the major problems to be faced if we are to progress in intergovernmental relations? The future direction of grants-in-aid remains to be solved. Allocation of tax resources is very important. The lack of adequate and equitable urban representation in state legislatures has complicated the intergovernmental picture. Channels of communication between levels of government are not all they should be. Has the Commission's work led to some improvement? Yes. One major advance is greater federal-state cooperation on planning. The President recently sent a memorandum to Cabinet members and heads of key independent agencies, asking them to notify state governments of federal plans for activities in their states before they take place so that states could expect something, and act accordingly, also expressing their views of these plans. Advance notice of the location of a large federal installation is one example. And the departments are following through; some have already prepared directives to their own people to make certain that this is implemented at all administrative levels. Most discussions on intergovernmental matters usually "Municipal needs are growing . . . and they are going to be met by intergovernmental cooperation . . . and communication" [quotation above photographs]