Mazzaferro, Aldo 1-1 Transcription
In: CIC Mazzaferro, Aldo 1-1 - Final.pdf
Part one of an interview with Aldo and Anna Mazzaferro. Topics include: Family history. How his parents came to the United States from Italy. How his parents were married and moved to Leominster, MA. Aldo's education and memories from Leominster High School and Holy Cross. Aldo's work at the DuPont company. What life was like during World War II. Aldo's work history. How Aldo and Anna were married. In 1953, Aldo started his CPA business in Leominster and Fitchburg. The different clients he had. His work at Art Plastics and the plastics business in general. His sons joined the plastics business. ; 1 INTERVIEWER: October 4, 2011. This is Linda [Rosenwan], with the Center for Italian Culture at Fitchburg State College with Aldo and Anna Mazzaferro's house, 575 West Street in Leominster. So maybe we should begin, Aldo, if you could just give me some personal information regarding when you were born and where. SPEAKER 1: Very definitely. But I must say that October 4th, 1955, our second son was born. Today is his birthday. SPEAKER 2: That's right. SPEAKER 1: But getting back to me, I was born on November 11th, 1921, in Leominster, Massachusetts. And I went to the public schools here, graduated from Leominster High School 1939. And I went on to Holy Cross College after graduation from Leominster High School. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Were your parents both born in Leominster? SPEAKER 1: No, they were not. They were both born in Italy. My dad was born in the province of Abruzzo in a town called [Scafa]. And my mother was born in Abruzzo on the Adriatic Sea in a town called Pescara. And my dad was born in 1880, and my mother was born in 1882. INTERVIEWER: And when did your father come to this country? SPEAKER 1: My father came to this country, I would say, around 1900. In the winter, they lived in the Bronx within New York. [Unintelligible - 00:01:52] Ellis Island. He lived in the Bronx. INTERVIEWER: And your mother? SPEAKER 1: And my mother arrived, I would say, probably 1902, 1903. And she also went to live in the Bronx, New York with her sister. And her sister was married, had a family, and so my mother came over. And prior to my mother's coming over here in the Bronx, my dad and my mother conducted a romance by way of correspondence through letters. They didn't know each other. So he paid for -- my dad paid for my mother's passage here.2 SPEAKER 2: Your dad boarding at… SPEAKER 1: Yeah. My dad was a boarder. In those days it was frequent -- frequently, the immigrants would come over and they would go to places where they have some relatives or friends. And they were taken in as boarders. My dad was a boarder at my mother's sister's house or apartment in New York City. It is how my dad saw pictures of my mother and how it all started. SPEAKER 2: Sent for her to come from Italy to America. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, he paid for her passage. INTERVIEWER: So they followed. SPEAKER 1: So they courted, married a couple of days later. SPEAKER 2: It was all done that way, the parents would pick a mate for their son or their daughter. In fact, I think it was done on the next generation, too. I have a cousin that was married that way. She lived in Italy, and her husband lived in New York. And they sent for one another and met through pictures and photographs. INTERVIEWER: And did the female part of this arrangement, did she have much to say about it? SPEAKER 1: I'm sure she did. I'm sure that -- my mother is a very strong-willed person, and she did what -- she preferred -- to do it, apparently, it was a great attraction between my parents, and -- it wasn't pre-arranged. It was sustained correspondent with each other and having interests, and it materialized when they met it New York. INTERVIEWER: Interesting. So what brought them to Leominster? SPEAKER 1: Well, they had their children in New York. They're nine -- they had nine children. I believe -- let's see, four or five were born in the Bronx, New York. And my dad wound up in a basement apartment in New York and ran the apartment building for the landlord. And as part of the rent, he lives rent-free with his family. And it came about that my mother's brother, Horrace, came to Leominster and found that there was work here at the DuPont 3 Company. And so he sent news back to the Bronx, and so my dad came along. He got a job at the DuPont Company in Leominster, and he came here with all his family. He works here I don't know for how long a period of time. Let's say around 1950 or 1970, and he brought his family to New York and settled down in Leominster. And they settled at 53 [unintelligible - 00:06:00], and that particular house was owned by one of the mayors of Leominster, Mayor Burdett, and they rented that house. It was a cottage with three bedrooms upstairs and with some land [unintelligible - 00:06:17]. But they eventually purchased that property after a few years. INTERVIEWER: So what kind of work did he do at DuPont? SPEAKER 1: Well he was a -- not a laborer. A benchman, I would believe, at the DuPont Company. But it wasn't to his liking, so he left DuPont Company and went to work for the Leominster Fuel Company and became the delivery person, delivered coal. The Leominster Fuel Company, in those days had the [unintelligible - 00:07:00], and they were always delivered. Those were the days they really have oil burners. And so frankly, our homes, all the boilers used coal. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever go with him to make a delivery? SPEAKER 1: No, no. No, I never did. I was not quite three years old when my dad died. INTERVIEWER: That must have been tremendous hardship for your mother. So your family decided to stay in Leominster? SPEAKER 1: Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes. After my father died, the ninth child was born a couple of months later. Well, the family stayed in Leominster. My oldest brother was probably 16 or 17. He left high school and went to work to support the family. And then each brother, you know, took his turn and went to work and supported the family. And one of my brothers -- I have five brothers ahead 4 of me, and only one was able to complete high school. And I was the sixth brother, and I was able to complete high school. INTERVIEWER: And are you the only one that attended college? SPEAKER 1: Yes, I'm the only one who attended college. INTERVIEWER: Would you like to stop for a minute? SPEAKER 1: Okay. All right. Well as I grew up, without my dad, my mother always impressed upon me the fact that my dad long ago wanted his children to go to college, to get a good education. She was quite disappointed that it wasn't happening. So I guess I was determined to do that, go to college, so that my mother would be happy. So when I was in junior high school I took the classical course, and in most days, junior high school went through the ninth grade. So when I was in ninth grade I questioned whether or not I had the financial resources to go to college. So I determined that there was no way that I could go to college. We don't have enough funds. So when I went to Leominster high school in my sophomore year, I switched from the classical course to college course to the commercial course. And then during my sophomore year at Leominster high school, I trained my mind [unintelligible - 00:10:07] determination that I wanted to go to college bad enough that I would find some way to go. And so my junior/senior year, I switched back to the college course in Leominster High School, and in those days it was a three-year high school, you had to have a minimum of 40 credits a year to pass. We have to have 120 credits to graduate, but because of the fact that I had to cram two college preparation years in my junior/senior year, I was required to take extra courses. So I had hardly any -- I don't think I had any study periods in my senior year. I recall only having one [unintelligible - 00:10:54] period and some semester not having [unintelligible - 00:10:59]. So as a result of that I took a great deal of courses at 5 Leominster High School. I had one year of business courses in commercial, which helped me later on in college. In my junior/senior year I had the college courses. So I was graduated with 151 credits from Leominster High School. We were only required 120, 125. The average credits that they got when we graduate, probably 125. I had 151, and a lot of course were behind me. INTERVIEWER: Did you have to work while you were in high school? SPEAKER 1: Yes, while I was in junior high school, actually junior high school, I got a job working at a Chinese laundry. I learned how to man load shirts, [unintelligible - 00:11:51] the collar, the collar, [unintelligible - 00:11:54] the cuffs, and to iron the shirts. So I learned -- I did very well. I worked at various Chinese laundries in Leominster, Fitchburg on Saturdays, especially. Also my high school years, I started to work at a Chinese laundry while I was in junior high school. And before the Chinese laundry career, I shined shoes at Monument Square in Leominster on Fridays and Saturdays. In most days everyone went downtown. On Saturdays, it's quite crowded downtown, and I did okay shining shoes. INTERVIEWER: I bet you could bank quite a bit of money doing that. SPEAKER 1: I don't have a bank. INTERVIEWER: You don't have a bank. You gave it to your mother? SPEAKER 1: There wasn't enough to go around. I can remember one time when I was in junior high school, I believe, it was during the Depression days in 1930s, and corduroy breeches were very popular in those days. They are the corduroy trousers that went down just below your knees, just below your knees, they had a little [unintelligible - 00:13:12], and they would walk, and they would try to meet that. Everybody at school would have a pair of corduroy breeches. I never had any. INTERVIEWER: Did you wish you did?6 SPEAKER 1: Well, I pushed my older brother Tony, who worked at the DuPont Company—he used to work four to twelve—and you know, just begged him to buy me a pair. He did finally buy me a pair, but I don't know what it costs. It costs less than a dollar, I think, in those days. And I was very proud that I had it. INTERVIEWER: And when you went to Holy Cross, what year was that? SPEAKER 1: Well, in 1939, I graduated -- I graduated in Leominster High School in 1939 in June. I went to Holy Cross in September 1943. And I was admitted to Holy Cross on a scholarship work program, and I was required to pay about one-third of the tuition. In those days, tuition was $280, and I was required to pay $100 of that tuition. And the balance I was required to earn at a rate of approximately 35 cents an hour credit working in the college library. INTERVIEWER: Thirty five cents… SPEAKER 1: … an hour would be credited towards… INTERVIEWER: To the $100 or the $200? SPEAKER 1: … to the 180 balance. That's what I was required to do. So I worked in my freshman year at the college library, normally evenings from about six o'clock to nine o'clock five and six evenings a week, unless there was some college event that I couldn't do it. Basically I did that all during my freshmen year, I worked at the college library, even some Saturdays and Sundays. In those days we went to college, we had classes on Saturday mornings until noontime. So, college was six days a week way back in the '30s and '40s. INTERVIEWER: So you lived on campus then? SPEAKER 1: No, I did not. I lived -- in my freshman year, I lived in Worcester with my older sister. She was married and lived in Worcester, and I stayed with her and I took the bus. And in my freshman year, I commuted, went to Holy Cross. And I lived with her in my 7 freshman year. And then from my sophomore year on, I stayed in Leominster. I lived in Leominster and I commuted daily to Holy Cross. In those days class started at nine o'clock in the morning and ran until 3:30. And then lab would be in the afternoon until 5:30, six o'clock. INTERVIEWER: And then you worked. SPEAKER 1: [Unintelligible - 00:16:20]? INTERVIEWER: No, that's fine. We're going to edit this anyway. Then you would work until nine o'clock at night? SPEAKER 1: No. Well, yes, in the college library. So I'd get home at -- in my freshman year I'd probably get back at 9:30, 10:00 to my sister's house. That was during my freshmen year. That was quite a program. I was gone all the time. But I didn't look upon it -- I shifted to something that had to be done. So I might say that during my freshman year, that the library, right after the football season was over, that one of the -- my good friend in class that played in the college band showed up at the library to work and told me that he was on the same scholarship work program that I was on, and that he had to play in the band and then work at the library to earn his credits. And he told me that next year, because he was in the college band, it would not be necessary for him to work at the library, just be in the college band he would get enough credits so he wouldn't have to work in the library. Just play in the college band. So I didn't know one note of music, and I heard about this. So in those days, they have the WTA Recreation Week, and they [unintelligible - 00:18:04]. They were offering the class on how to play musical instrument at the [unintelligible - 00:18:10] in Worcester. And this was during my freshman year. And so there was a Professor Castana who taught music, and I decided that I wanted to learn to play the cornet so that I could fit into the college 8 band in my sophomore year. So I approached him and told him that I had not -- I'm not looking to be a music major. I just wanna know enough music so that I could play well enough to play the Star-Spangled Banner and probably the football march and some things like that, and national anthem so that I could be admitted into the college band. So I took music lessons in the spring of my freshman year from about, I'd say from January to May in Worcester while I lived with my sister. So I used to go down there, so I'm busy weekends, and whenever I could fit it in, sometimes during the afternoon. INTERVIEWER: So was that a success? Did you get admitted? SPEAKER 1: Yes, yes. I came back after my freshman year was over in the summer of 1940, there was a Professor [unintelligible - 00:19:40] that taught music, and I finished my musical education with him. And I got to play the cornet, and I told him the same thing. I just want him to know that I wasn't gonna do a major in music. So then in my freshmen year, I was admitted to the college band. And I played the second cornet, second trumpet. So I knew all the [unintelligible - 00:20:18]. In a couple of weeks, I learned all the songs that have to be played, probably 12 or 15. And I played in the second cornet. I didn't require the music sheet on the lyre. And so because I could play by heart all the numbers, they placed me outside of the band. When you go on the outside so that you could [unintelligible - 00:20:49] the person on the outside will all be going [unintelligible - 00:20:54]. So that's where I wound up with the college band. INTERVIEWER: Do you still play? SPEAKER 1: No, I don't. I quitted after my junior year, and I haven't played. I'm not a musician.9 SPEAKER 2: Wasn't there a story where you started to usher because you found you got more credits being in the usher than you were playing in a band? SPEAKER 1: Well, what happened was half of my freshmen year, I was able to find a job with the DuPont Company. And in the summer after my freshman year, I worked on the 12-8 shift at the DuPont Company. Then when school started in the fall in my sophomore year, I was able to continue working at the DuPont Company. In order to keep my job with them, I was required to work 82 hours a week, and I would be considered a permanent employee. And if I put in 32 hours or more per week, I would be entitled to a two-week vacation period and paid holidays. So that's what I did in my sophomore, junior, and senior years. While I was at Holy Cross I had a full-time job working at the DuPont Company. My normal schedule after the football season was over, that I had to work on a Saturday from 4-12. I would get 8 hours. Then on a Sunday I would go to mass at 7 o'clock, and I would be at the DuPont Company from 8 o'clock, and I would work 8-4. So on a Saturday and Sunday, I got 16 hours, and I have the rest of the week to get in another 16 or more hours. So the way the classes were at Holy Cross on a Tuesday and a Thursday, the class schedule was light. I would have I think two classes at night on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I was normally to class about 1:30 to two o'clock and it was all done class on two o'clock. So I would get back to Leominster at three o'clock, four o'clock, usually five or six o'clock, and I would work from 6-9 and 7-10, something like that. Or even sometimes 7-12. And once in a while, if I was up to it, I would even go beyond 12 o'clock at work. If I have an exam the next day I would probably work until… INTERVIEWER: I guess I'm wondering when did you study? I think…10 SPEAKER 1: Going to see if I'm coming too strong enough [unintelligible - 00:24:06]. Ah, let's see. When did I study? I didn't study as much as I would've wanted to. In order to make up for the fact that I couldn't study as much as I wanted to, when I was in class I really focused on what the professor was talking about. I would not permit myself to be distracted by what was going on in class. I just focused right on that professor and tried to understand what they were trying to put across. And I think that saved me a lot of -- I did my homework, less consuming. But I studied between classes, and I actually used to study on the job at the DuPont Company. I had a job running an automatic comb-polishing machine, was about 40 or 50 feet long. And I sat at the beginning of the machine, and said comb fell into a belt. And after a while you'll get so used to it you didn't have to look at what you're doing. You just grab a handful of combs, and one by one you would put those combs down the belt about a half an inch a pack. And you didn't have to watch it too carefully. So I used to set up the machine with a book in my lap if I have some studying to do. So I used to get some studying done that way. And the… INTERVIEWER: And what was your major? SPEAKER 1: My major at Holy Cross was economics, Bachelor of Science in Economics. But that's when I enrolled there. But then in the senior year, they changed the name of the degree to Business Administration. Actually, my concentration there was in Economics, actually. I took the accounting -- the accounting program was required for the first two years. And then after the junior and senior year, then you decide whether or not to continue on the accounting later on. I decided to get into economics, applied economics. INTERVIEWER: What was it like going to school during the war?11 SPEAKER 1: Well, it wasn't really until December 7, 1941, the day of Pearl Harbor, that I think that the [unintelligible - 00:26:52] heavily involved in. There was a -- I don't exactly know when. I don't think that the interest in following through -- there would seem to be a "Let's get it over with. I'm gonna be in the service anyway. Let's get education over with," and everything was accelerated. After 1942, they dispensed with the summer vacation from college. Normally you would get out of college in first week of June. We went right through, started our senior year in June of 1942. We finished our -- we finished our junior year in May of 1942. It took just a few weeks, two days before we started the senior year, went right through the summer. [Unintelligible - 00:28:17] a week down to July 4th, holiday. It was like that right through the summer of 1942. And with the accelerated program, we graduated February 1943 where we should have been graduated in June of 1943. And there was gas rationing in those days, and travel was my priority. So it was difficult to travel. INTERVIEWER: At that time you were traveling back and forth at Leominster? SPEAKER 1: I was commuting back and forth. INTERVIEWER: So how did you do that? SPEAKER 1: We have enough gas. It was rationed. We have enough gas to go to school. But because of the travel restriction, they cancelled our graduation exercises. So we had no graduation exercises in 1943, and we received our diplomas through the mail. I might say that about traveling, it wasn't commuting back and forth that was the worst to Holy Cross from Leominster that my brother and myself, in my sophomore year, bought a 1929 Packard that I could use and was gonna use later on in this business. So when I went back to school in September of my sophomore year with the Packard, I had about four, five other students as passengers, and that helped to defer the cost of traveling gas and oil back and forth to Worcester. 12 And this Packard broke down after the second week that I was in college. I had to tow it back to Leominster. So over the weekend there was an old 1934 Packard that was for sale, so my brother purchased this 1934 Packard for $50. And I used that, but it consumed a lot of gasoline. I probably got six or seven or eight miles a gallon at the most. But gasoline was not expensive in those days. You can probably get -- I think we were paying 12 to 15 cents a gallon of gasoline in 1940, 1941. So… INTERVIEWER: So it sounds as if your brothers gave out a lot for the family. SPEAKER 1: Well, I always -- they helped, definitely. When I need a couple of dollars here and there, and usually they would let me have a dollar or two if I need it. But then as I worked at the DuPont Company and got in, got my time, especially in the summer, I worked full time. I worked 40 hours a week and probably even 48 or 50. I put in plenty of time. And then the two-week vacation period that I got paid for, I actually worked at the DuPont Company, so I developed this sufficient income stream to carry, to support myself. INTERVIEWER: Did anyone else go to college from your family? SPEAKER 1: No. Not anyone. No. INTERVIEWER: Again, going back to the war. Did you have to serve? SPEAKER 1: No, I didn't. I was eligible for limited service. So I wasn't eligible for the draft until I was graduated from college. In those days I believe all the college students were permitted to finish their college career as long as they are in good standing. And so I was eligible for limited service. First time that the draft board called upon me, I went down and they didn't need anyone for limited service. And at that time I was working for Peat Marwick Mitchell Company. This was in 1943, and I was involved in auditing in the British West Indies, Central America, Northern South America. There was security involved in auditing, and I was doing it, and it 13 involved auditing for the United States government. And so I never got into the service. INTERVIEWER: Is this company in Leominster? SPEAKER 1: No. Peat Marwick Mitchell is one of the big three accounting firms in those days. There were Peat Marwick Mitchell, Price Waterhouse, [unintelligible - 00:33:52], companies like that. And today, Peat Marwick Mitchell is now known as KPGM, one of the big, large international firms. So I went to work for them in November of 1943. INTERVIEWER: And where was it located? SPEAKER 1: They have -- well, they have had their worldwide headquarters in London, in Scotland, in New York, throughout the United States, and I worked at the Boston office in the Worcester branch. I had assignments. I went to work with them in November. We audited companies like Melville Shoe, which became the Thom McAn shoe stores, the General Electric company, American Optical, [unintelligible - 00:34:50] Electronics… INTERVIEWER: Did you stay in Leominster and commute? SPEAKER 1: Yes. I probably -- much of the time I was with Peat Marwick Mitchell, I was traveling. And for instance, we would go to Southbridge and audit the books of American Optical; that would take about six weeks, seven weeks. And we would stay at the Columbia Hotel in Southbridge, Massachusetts all week long. So I would come home on weekends. It was like that. We audited the General Electric Company in Pittsville, Massachusetts with the same arrangement. We would stay at the hotel. There was lot of traveling away from -- in fact, in 1944, I was on assignment to Central America from Labor Day to Thanksgiving. So I was away and conducting audits for the United States Commercial Company, that supplies corporation that was part of the security that Peat Marwick Mitchell was involved in during the war. There was also, 14 in Panama, there was a tropical radio and telegraph company, which was very important for communication. That was part of the auditing contract that Peat Marwick Mitchell had with the United States government. But the big account that was prevalent throughout those areas was United Food Company, which was like a government unto itself. It had schools. It supported the schools. It had its own schools, education, railroads throughout the Central America. INTERVIEWER: And how long did you go with that company? SPEAKER 1: I was with Peat Marwick Mitchell until November of 1947. No, December, end of December, until January 1948 I was with Peat Marwick Mitchell. I left Peat Marwick Mitchell and went to work with Baker and Baker. It was another CPA firm out of [Worcester in] New York. And one of the assignments I had with them, the longest, was down in New York City working at 90 Broad Street, and we conducted investigation of the New York Waterworks. Investigation involves contracts and transactions that dated back to the early 1900s when they installed the water supply from New York City in Long Island. So I worked in the fraud investigation regarding a case that was going on. And as I lived in New York from -- I think I was assigned there from the end of July of 1948, July or August of 1948, and I was there until November of '48. We stayed at the St. George Hotel or St. Charles Hotel in Long Island. I would take the subway to Wall Street to 90 Broad Street where we were working on the audit. INTERVIEWER: Okay, and how long were you with that company? SPEAKER 1: I was with them I would say until 1950. And then I went to work -- one of the accounts that Baker and Baker had was the Dollar Greeting Cards, which was located in Fitchburg, Massachusetts. And I had conducted the audit of Dollar Greeting Cards for Baker and Baker Company. And then you recall there was a recession in 15 1949, and so Baker and Baker had to let much of its staff go. And I was one of the staff that was let go in probably August or September of 1949. SPEAKER 2: In May. SPEAKER 1: Well, they told me they were gonna let me go in May, but then after our wedding we came back, and they told me they're gonna keep me on. So that's an interesting story if you want me to tell you a little bit about it. INTERVIEWER: I was just about to ask you when you got married. 1949? SPEAKER 2: May 1949. He was unemployed. SPEAKER 1: Well, let me tell you the story is that that we had our wedding date set up May 7, 1949. It was two or three weeks before the wedding, Baker and Baker notified me that they're gonna have to let me go during my vacation, because of the, you know, the recession. So I didn't mention that to her. And so we were married. I think we were honeymooning in Canada, we went up to Canada, I said, well this is a safe place to tell her. So I let her know that she had married an unemployed person but not to worry about it because things will work out okay. And so we got back, and Baker and Baker kept me on for another two months, and I land the Dollar Greeting Cards audit after that. And then when they had to leave Baker and Baker, and so they came about the Dollar Greeting Card. Dollar Greeting Card needed assistants in the accounting department, the special projects that they had going on. So I was hired. So I left them. I was hired by Dollar Greeting cards. So I left Baker and Baker on a Friday, and on Monday I showed up at the Dollar Greeting Cards Company. And I worked there on special projects, and probably important projects. I worked onwards on assignments that determine the tax advantages and disadvantages of transferring Dollar Greeting Cards from being a Massachusetts corporation to a 16 North Hampshire corporation. That was one of the assignments I had, and I made the recommendation that it would be a great tax saving by relocating to North Hampshire. And so shortly after I made that report, I left. I left Dollar Greeting cards. I passed the CPA exam in November of 1949. Yes. And so it's 1950, I left Dollar Greeting Cards, and I went to work for Colorado Fuel and Iron Corporation that had the large steel manufacturing company. They had headquarters in Buffalo, Colorado. The eastern division was headquarters and offices at 585 Madison Avenue, and I worked out of the New York office. And my position with them is -- I was named assistant to the chief plant department for the Eastern division for of Colorado Fuel and Iron. And it had various divisions, it had the [unintelligible - 00:44:06] Iron and Steel division, which was located in New England. And while I was an auditor with Peat Marwick Mitchell, I ran -- Colorado Fuel was one of the clients of Peat Marwick Mitchell. So I ran the audit of the [unintelligible - 00:44:24] Steel division in Worcester, Clinton, and [unintelligible - 00:44:27], Massachusetts. And over this part there was a problem. There was an accounting problem regarding the inventory problem, which was quite serious, that I was involved in. And as a result of the examinations that I had to make, I got to meet the treasurer of the Colorado Fuel, [unintelligible - 00:44:54] from New York City during the course of this audit, which sort of took place in 1947, when I was auditing the [unintelligible - 00:45:07] Steel division. So we finally settled our differences and we certified the statements for Colorado Fuel and Iron. And at the end of the meetings that we had, the treasurer mentioned to me that most fellas in public accounting where I was, after four, five years, they tire up. They wanna find a place where they can have a career with a great company. And he said to me, think of Colorado Fuel 17 and Iron when you're ready to leave public accounting. So when I was with Dollar Greeting Cards in 1949 or 1950, I didn't see that I had a future there. And so I contacted the treasurer of Colorado Fuel and Iron and went down for an interview in New York City. I was hired immediately, and I went to work for them in 1950. INTERVIEWER: And after that you stayed behind? SPEAKER 2: We stayed in Leominster. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, they lived in Leominster. SPEAKER 2: He'd worked -- he'd come home weekends. And then we'll drive him to the Union Station in Worcester for him to take the midnight train, the sleeper, to go to work maybe Chicago, Buffalo, New York… SPEAKER 1: Not only Buffalo. They had a big -- so in Buffalo, in [unintelligible - 00:46:32] New York, the big steel facility requires [unintelligible - 00:46:36] Steel division. SPEAKER 2: It was -- Sunday night I would drive to Worcester for the midnight train. SPEAKER 1: So I would spend time away. INTERVIEWER: And how long did you stay with them? SPEAKER 1: I was with them -- I can remember the day exactly, April Fools' Day, April 1, 1953, I left. And I was traveling all the time. I was hardly ever home. Closest I ever worked was Clinton. They had a [unintelligible - 00:47:10] Steel, and then in Worcester. But they were all very small in comparison to the other facilities that Colorado Fuel had. In Buffalo there are probably 5,000 or 6,000 workers. And then in Trenton, New Jersey, we acquired the [unintelligible - 00:47:32] division, probably 5,000 or 6,000 people at work there. The nearest facility [unintelligible - 00:47:39] Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Claymont, Delaware, all these facilities that they have, I worked there. INTERVIEWER: So what happened in 1953?18 SPEAKER 1: Well, in 1953, I decided to come back to Leominster and establish my CPA practice. I always wanted to have a CPA practice to public accounting. And I had, I was certified. And so while I was head, all these employments out of town, I developed an accounting practice in Leominster and Fitchburg. And so what was important in getting back to Leominster is I had one account. And I had many, but one of the accounts I had was the Art Plastics Company, and it was a very successful plastics company. And it did the greatest volume of [unintelligible - 00:48:48] would be SS Kresge Company, which today is known as the Kmart. And so in 1951 or 1952, they started to lose their bargain in business that was the Kresge Company, and it got to the point where in late 1952, early 1953, they lost money, the volume of their business with the Kresge Company. And so they became insolvent. And they had -- they owed money to the major chemical manufacturer in those days. Dall Chemical, [unintelligible - 00:49:43] and so, the credit offices of these companies were located in the New York City area. And while I was with Colorado Fuel working down in Madison Avenue in New York, I contacted the credit department of the Dall Chemical, [unintelligible - 00:50:00], and was able to affect the settlement for Art Plastics of 10 to 25 cents on a dollar, they would settle for it, because I was able to show that without some compromise, the Art Plastics was gonna go out of business. They were insolvent, they were heading to bankruptcy. And so as a result of these accommodations I made for the Art Plastics Company, it was able to exist in not just to keep it running from day to day. And they had one account, a custom molding account, which was enough to keep it alive. So they wanted me to see what I could do, improve the facility and join the company and make it viable. And so I accepted an arrangement after great discussion to go to work with them on April 1 and leave Colorado Fuel. And19 my salary was $100 a week, which was less than what I was earning with Colorado Fuel. But the arrangement that I would stay long enough to either make a [unintelligible - 00:51:36] company or not, and that I would put all the time that I could, especially every morning, but then afternoons I would be free if I had to take care of my accounting practice, which I was going to build up. So I used Art Plastics as a steppingstone to develop my public accounting practice. And so I joined Art Plastics, and simultaneously, when I joined, there were three main stockholders, three partners at Art Plastics. One of them left abruptly as I joined the company, and so I joined the company and made all kinds of drastic cuts, like slashed salaries of the remaining partners, almost 50 percent, and you know, in [unintelligible - 00:52:40] warehouse based at [unintelligible - 00:52:44]. I made a lot of cost-cutting procedures. INTERVIEWER: So you were a very popular guy? SPEAKER 1: I was not popular at all. And so at the end of the first month, six to seven weeks that I was there, the second partner approached and said I can't get along on my meager income now, and what I'd like to do is leave the company but I'd like to take the machine shop as a swap for my share in the company. So I okayed it, and I checked with the other partner, the other remaining partner, who was elderly and who was not that active in the plastics business but who was the investment person, the person who put up the fund at the start the company. And so it was fine with him. So at the end of two months, I was -- I found myself there with just one partner. Then he suddenly developed an ulcer and was hospitalized, and he was told to stay away from the plastics company. So in the short space of time, I found myself running the plastic company that I didn't completely understand, and I was learning. And so that went on. I managed to keep running, and…20 INTERVIEWER: Doing all of these for a $100 a week? SPEAKER 1: Well, yes. But I had my accounting practice, and I was earning about as much in my accounting practice on a part-time basis, because I was working for the Art Plastics Company. And the practice was that I would hold my payroll checks for perhaps two or three weeks, whatever I had to, when there was not enough money in Art Plastics to cover the payroll checks. So we managed to stay alive and keep Art Plastics running. We get down to the point where we -- normally, Art Plastics had 60, 70 employees when it was running. But they kept down to the point where we only had five or six employees when there was hardly any business. But we managed to hang in there by cost cutting and settling with creditors in giving us time to pay. We managed to stay alive. And I stayed in the plastics business longer than what I had planned. So I was busy running the plastics business, running my public accounting practice, time goes by. And the plastics business was seasonal, and it worked out that public accounting in those days was seasonal. You were busy from about December until about April, and that's about when the plastics company was not that busy. So I was able to balance the two and keep the plastics company alive. And after three, four, five years, we developed new customers in the plastics, with Art Plastics. I made a decision around 1960 after just being so busy running the plastics business during the day and running my public accounting practice in the evening and weekends, and taking time away from the plastics business during the week, I made the decision to stay in the plastics business. And I thought that I might take my public accounting practice alive by bringing somebody in. And so it was 1959 or 1958, one of those years, that I brought in one of my colleagues that I work with at Peat Marwick Mitchell Company, 21 and he came to work with me, and I was passing on -- he handled all the public accounts. We set up an office, and the [unintelligible - 00:57:31] building downtown, I remember. And that went on for a year or a year and a half, maybe two years, and he abruptly passed away. And right in the middle of taxing, probably February or March. And so all these taxes returns we were working on, I had to get extensions. And so that's when I decided that I wouldn't be able to keep up my public accounting practice, so that's when I divested my accounts and made arrangements for other CPAs in the area to take over some of my accounts. But I wasn't able to give them all up. I kept a couple. Not that I wanted to, but because they wanted to. There was some loyalty there. And so I [unintelligible - 00:58:39] that I kept maybe for another 10, 15 years. It was not a very… INTERVIEWER: What made you stay in the Art Plastics Company? Sounds like an incredible amount of work. SPEAKER 1: Well, there is a lot of work. But we have 30, 40, 50 people there. You can delegate a lot. I think in public accounting, it was -- for me, it was more time-consuming to get the work done, whereas in manufacturing you delegate and you're more of a manager and you have time. And I can recall a conversation that I had with two of my colleagues when I was working in Southbridge at the American Optical, and we were talking one evening, the three of us, as to what we wanted to after we get out of public accounting. And one of them said, "Well, I wanna become the comptroller of a large gold chip firm." And he did, he became comptroller and assistant treasurer of the Pittston Company. And the other fellow wanted to stay in public accounting and be partner, and he did that. He stayed. I remember saying I wanna be a manufacturer. I just think that the opportunity in manufacturing, owning your own business. 22 I remember saying that maybe if turned up that I had that opportunity to work on… INTERVIEWER: So tell me, what did Art Plastics make? SPEAKER 1: Art Plastics had their line of horticultural flower pot ornaments, that was its line. It made these trellises for flower pots, it made the ornaments that you would stick in the flower pots, like the flamingoes, [unintelligible - 01:00:45] watering flowers, those palm trees, a frog on the… INTERVIEWER: And this was very popular in the '60s? SPEAKER 1: Well, it was -- yes, it had a line. But we developed a -- we got into custom molding products. Custom molding is more than we did, the proprietary line. So we became custom molders, basically. That's when we would -- people would come to us with molds of their own, and we would mold their products. And we used to -- one of our big accounts had a big line of toy dolls. And you know that Barbie doll that was popular? We used to mold that. We used to mold it in acetate. That was our main account. We mold it for the company that put the [unintelligible - 01:01:45] sprayed the eyes on it, the eye lashes. INTERVIEWER: The Barbie doll, the Mattel Company? SPEAKER 1: No, they were competitors. Got to be competitors. This was back in the late 1950s, '60s. Yeah. So we were custom molders. We used to mold for other big companies, like [unintelligible - 01:02:16]. They manufacture beautiful knives, forks, and spoons, and we used to mold those. And companies like Tupperware. Have you heard of Tupperware? They would get extremely busy, and they would approach molders like Art Plastics. And we would mold their basins and dish bowls and things like that on a seasonal basis. SPEAKER 2: Clothes hangers?23 SPEAKER 1: Clothes hangers. That was one big account. But we made all their hangers that they made—not for the consumer market but for the display of hangers in stores and department stores like Saks, and… [Lauren] Taylor, companies like that. They have a very expensive line of plastic hangers, and we were their molders. So we were -- we get a great deal of custom molding with Art Plastics. SPEAKER 2: May I insert a story? We were on the trip, and Aldo's looking at the store with fur coats in the windows. And our friends said, "Oh Aldo's looking to buy you a fur coat." I says, "No, he wants to see if that was one of the hangers molded at Art Plastics." SPEAKER 1: I want to see it that was one of our hangers. SPEAKER 2: So I had many stories little stories like that. He'd be looking to see if it was done at Art Plastics Company or some other place. INTERVIEWER: Now, what would happen if you saw that it was done at another? SPEAKER 1: Well, if it was a competitor's, I would report it back to our customers; say you got to get your salesman out there. So that's what Art Plastics did. And so it leads to some [unintelligible - 01:04:15]. INTERVIEWER: But I'm not sure I fully understand Art Plastics, meaning after the partners that you had suddenly died. You decided no longer… SPEAKER 1: No, he developed an ulcer, and he was advised not to return to work for a few months. INTERVIEWER: Oh yeah, not him, but during your public accounting. SPEAKER 1: Oh. Well, I liquidated my company, public accounting practice, and couple of other CPAs in the area took the accounts over. INTERVIEWER: And then you continued with… SPEAKER 1: Then I stayed in plastics; I stayed in plastics and developed Art Plastics. And in 1960, we were paying rent in what they called in those days the old DuPont building. So we had an opportunity to buy a piece of real estate owned by the Borden Chemical Company at 75 Water Street in Leominster. And so we acquired that 24 property I believe in 1960. And so Art Plastics relocated and moved up to this new facility, and that's when I made all my decision that I'm gonna stay in the plastics business, liquidate my public accounting. It was around 1960 when we purchased the Art Plastics building on the Walter Street from the Borden Chemical Company. INTERVIEWER: Now 40 years later, are you in the same location? SPEAKER 1: Comes about it, I'm going back. That's a long circle around. So… SPEAKER 2: That building has always been Art Plastics and Cardinal Co. Then we have another building. But now, Art Plastics is back on 75 Water Street. Lots of stories in between. SPEAKER 1: Lots of stories in between. INTERVIEWER: Do you want to say all of them? Because we're up to 1960, so we might as well go on. SPEAKER 1: All right. So in the '60s we developed Art Plastics in custom molding. And I decided that, that we had culturally floral [unintelligible - 01:06:55] that we had, the trellises and things like that, were not developing the way I thought. And I was looking for a proprietary line to get into. So we had a lot of experience molding combs for the DuPont Company, the Tupperware Company, hangers and things like that, and also standard home products that we used to custom mold. So we had a background in molding combs. And Leominster is known as the combing city that it always had. They manufacture combs here. So I had an opportunity to employ somebody who was knowledgeable in comb business, so I decided to be in the comb business, and that was in 1969, that the first thing we did was we had a pocket comb mold built. That caught, let's say, 36-cavity 5-inch pocket comb, heavy-duty pocket comb that cost us $7,200. That was our first mold to go into the comb business. INTERVIEWER: And that cost you $7,200 for the mold?25 SPEAKER 1: For that one mold to introduce us. That was a very pro -- and that was a man's pocket comb. Every man has a pocket comb, a black pocket comb in those days, and it was a bread and butter entry to the business. So we started Cardinal Comb in 1969. Around 1970, there was a -- another company in Leominster that was involved in the comb business, and they have been in business two or three or four years. And they were faltering, and they were going out of business. So we acquired their machinery, molds and machinery. INTERVIEWER: Which business was that? Which company? What was the name of it? Can you remember? SPEAKER 1: They call it Rafaeli Plastics. Cardinal Comb acquired all the assets, the machinery, the equipment, the inventory, and the customer list… whom I was already doing business with. But that doesn't matter. So that was in 1999, we acquire Rafaeli Plastics. And after that, going through our line. INTERVIEWER: Were you the only company in the area producing combs? SPEAKER 1: No, we were not. We were a late entry. Probably a half a dozen other people making combs in Leominster, or at least I knew about. So we entered the comb business. INTERVIEWER: And what gave you the courage for that? SPEAKER 1: Well, I hired this person who had experience in sales in combs. I was -- I felt he could do well in the comb business. So during the '70s and '80s, our comb business grew. We had a machine shop, and we built our own molds. In those days it had the black and the [unintelligible - 01:10:52] movement. And so they were the new styles of combs coming in to the market, and molds have to be built. We had the facility, machine shop facility. We built many of our own molds, and it saved us considerable… INTERVIEWER: Who would make a decision like that? Is it something that you read about, knowing what kinds of combs are coming into style?26 SPEAKER 1: Well, we would go to trade shows. We would go to trade shows in New York, Chicago. And you could -- the trend was out there, there was a trend, and you could detect it. And what other people, what other competitors would do, they have a pulse for what the market wanted. And after that was happening in the '70s or '80s, comb business was changing. And people change styles along. They became sharp. For a while they have all these apple comb, shampoo comb, the big 9-inch comb with a handle on it. Normally they have a regular 9-inch dresser comb which was all comb. Half of the comb was fine teeth; the other half was coarse teeth. So the apple comb with the shampoo comb with coarse teeth with a handle on it. So we were probably one of the first to get in on that trend. And they have this list; they give you the afro look. And we were very involved with that. And at the same time, with the change in the style of combs, there was also a change in the color of combs. Because the comb industry, basically, that we started with, we only had about three colors of comb. You'll have black, baby pink, and baby blue. Those were the colors. So if we went to trade shows, and plastics, the new plastics resins coming in to the market where you could color, add all kinds of color very easily. So color became very important in the comb business. So we got in on that trend and started to make a lot of colors, and it's one of the ways I think that we expanded and kept up with the competition. INTERVIEWER: Is Art Plastics and Cardinal Combs two separate companies? SPEAKER 1: Yes. SPEAKER 2: Two separate corporations. Same people. SPEAKER 1: Yes. Two separate corporations. Common ownership. The family owns -- I actually took the beginning. The family, to mention, our family, owned Art Plastics and Cardinal Comb. My son didn't join me in the plastics business until probably 1980 or so. 27 SPEAKER 2: Because of college. INTERVIEWER: Two sons, or… SPEAKER 2: Two sons in the plastics business now. INTERVIEWER: But did they originally all work in the plastics? SPEAKER 1: No. I'll tell you a little story. But the important and interesting is -- so we started to develop these colors like yellow and fuchsia, strawberry and lime, all the different colors of a comb. So it was probably my son Edward -- when did get he out of college? SPEAKER 2: '82. SPEAKER 1: '82. Edward, the youngest of my three sons, joined me at Cardinal Comb, and he was in charge of production, scheduling. And he and I went to trade shows. And then my second son Anthony was working in Boston in public accounting. So at one point my son Anthony said, "Dad I'm gonna be joining Cardinal Comb," and I said, "Are you?" "Yes. Edward wants me to join the company. He said that we need some help." I said that's fine. Glad to hear it. And so Anthony joined the company around 1983, something like that. So then I decided, this is not all the heads that we're gonna have, so we really have to expand to cover Anthony's salary. And so we concentrated more on marketing. So I put Anthony in charge of sales and marketing. And so Anthony would go to the trade shows. And so he came back from one trade show after he's been with the company for a year or so, he said, "Dad, we have to have more colors. We just can't get by with just three or four. We have to have eight or nine different colors. And we can get more of the shares of the market." And so I called Edward in, I said "Edward, we're gonna increase the inventory line of combs from about four colors to about eight or nine." Edward said, "Over my dead body, Dad. I'm not ready to have any more different colors." So I had these two very strong individuals, strong personality, and I could say from my experience from public accounting, I had seen 28 collisions or difficulty come in to certain partnerships and family arrangements. And I sat back and said no, these two [unintelligible - 01:17:11] want to run the show. It can only have one person running an operation; I got to find another way. I got to separate these companies. So that's when I made the decision to purchase another company called St. John, which we renamed First Plastics. And then I put Edward in charge of that. And so each -- it is my decision or purpose or call, really, to have each one of my eldest boys run their own company, which they would run it completely and be responsible. And that would give them the incentive, too. If they did well, they'd be rewarded. So it worked out very well, I think. INTERVIEWER: So is Art Plastics also making combs? SPEAKER 2: No. Just molding. SPEAKER 1: No. First Plastics was strictly a custom molding operation. That had some customers. So we acquired First Plastics in 1987, '88. 1988. We actually acquired it. And we had a relationship of molding with them. When we purchased -- when we set up First Plastics, the name of the company was St. John, and that was owned by the [unintelligible - 01:18:48] family from [unintelligible - 01:18:55] Massachusetts. So we get custom molding for them, and they own it solely because they have to go into plastics to make their plastics and things like that. But after they go on a few years, it didn't work out well for them and they decided that they were going to get out of the plastics business, and that's when St. John was up for sale. And that's when we purchased the company. And they had some custom molding and customer list, small customer list that went a long way. So we set up First Plastics in a separate location down the [unintelligible - 01:19:36], and Edward became the president of First Plastics, and Anthony became the president of Cardinal Comb./AT/jf/kb/es