Mercadante, Frances 1-1 Transcription
In: CIC Mercadante, Frances 1-1 - Final.pdf
Part one of an interview with Frances Mercadante. Topics include: Poem for Dorris Catrell. Becoming the Italian Woman of the Year. Her work as a teacher. Being a woman with a family and a career. How her children were well cared for. How expectations and values changed from generation to generation in her family. Her mother played the organ. How her grandparents met in Boston, were married, and had her mother. How Frances' great uncle, Father Angelo Cappenella, ended up coming to the United States from Italy and was positioned at Saint Anthony's Parish in Fitchburg, MA. Frances' mother moved to Fitchburg to help care for her uncle at the rectory at Saint Anthony's. What life was like for Father Cappenella. Speaking Italian. The Venereen Sisters at Saint Anthony's. The importance of family. The tradition of family meals. How Frances dealt with her son's divorce. ; 1 LINDA: Linda [Rosenwan] for the Center for Italian Culture. It is Wednesday, October 24, 2001. We're with Frances Mercadante at her home at 306 Canton Street in Fitchburg. So she is about to read a poem that I believe she wrote. Did you write this poem? FRANCES: Yes, I did. LINDA: For a friend, Doris Catrell. FRANCES: For a friend, Doris Catrell [Disgene]. Doris, small statured woman, a warm smiling face. Whenever she greets you, it's with a hugging embrace. Impeccably dressed each Sunday as she comes to lead the parish in song with her clear, lilting voice at the 8 o'clock mass. After mass, carrying communion to the ill, she brings them consoling joy and contentment. Then, to the Blessed Sacrament she travels spending an hour with the Lord in the Eucharist. During the week, she's at mass each day, later has coffee for our group to enjoy. Always uplifting whenever we're burdened, encouraging and kind in conversation. At home as a child, I remember her presence, practiced the church services with mom in the choir. Reaching high notes as a soprano with ease, always ready to do her part. Later when Saint Anthony's School was in session, she volunteered to cook, serve, and chat with the children from our school and no one, too. Her workers enjoyed her pleasant manner. She was there when our family and neighbors required special care, assisting her parents in their senior years. Helped Margie, a neighbor, when her health began to fail. And still took care of her own family's needs. She has four loving children, Carla, Michael, Jerome, and Antonia; one special granddaughter, Ashley. Has a strong, loving bond with each of them, and especially enjoys their calls and visits. 2 She has a green thumb that is obvious to see as you approach her cottage with bursts of color from flowers of all kinds profusely growing in her yard. Doris, a woman of faith, family, and friends has left an indelible mark on my life. LINDA: Now, what was the occasion that you wrote this? FRANCES: I wanted it to be part of my Italian cultural evening. And I said it would be nice for me -- well, I had already done Luigi Relley years ago in class, in a creative writing class. I said I was going to look into getting a picture of the two of them and frame the write-ups that I did so parishioners going by, especially the older ones and then some of the families, would recognize the two people and want to read them. And that was the whole purpose. LINDA: So this was read at the awards, too? FRANCES: No. LINDA: No? FRANCES: It was just on a table with all the other material that we had, and people could read it if they wished. LINDA: So explain to us just briefly about becoming Woman of the Year, the Italian-American Woman of the Year. FRANCES: Italian-American Woman of the Year. There is a committee of people that look at individuals and usually see whether or not we have been in the community, active in the community somewhat, and also doing well with our church, our family, an all-encompassing thing. When they look at a person, they want you to be many things. I personally felt that I was more involved with church, family, and career. And I did some outside material with, probably, the ecumenical group. I had been in that for a number of years and enjoyed that. And then, I used the telephone to solicit for the Red Cross and cancer, TB-ers. 3 But I wasn't, supposedly as far as I was concerned, the type of person they should select because I wasn't as outgoing as being in politics or being very active in the elderly communities that they have in the cities and whatnot. I just didn't have the time because of my career. I stayed in quite a number of years until -- let's see, I was going on 69 when I left. And a lot of people leave at 52. So I didn't have the time. I enjoyed teaching, and I hated to give it up. LINDA: So now explain to us about being a teacher. I understand that you were the first. Were you the first married woman? FRANCES: Yes. When I came back to Fitchburg from Windsor, Connecticut, I had my training in Windsor, Connecticut. I went to college in Chicopee [unintelligible – 00:05:35]. And when I looked for a position, my mother, of course, wanted me to stay home in my own hometown. She knew I was going to be engaged and getting married, and she really looked forward to that. And I stayed on, was substituting this for almost six months, and was called maybe three times. And I said, "I'm never going to get any experience doing this." And it was a time when they were not hiring as many teachers. LINDA: And what year was this? FRANCES: This was 1953. And so I decided to use a teacher -- what do you call them? I'm trying to think of a word. Where you would look for a position, they would have the listing of different schools. And Massachusetts had a few. They were in Walpole and quite far from Fitchburg, on the other side of Fitchburg, really, going toward the cape. And then, there was this job that I found in Windsor, Connecticut, and my brother-in-law lived in Connecticut in Plainville, in New Britain. And so I decided to look into the Windsor, Connecticut job, and it started in January. And I was taking care of a fifth grade class and decided to accept the position. And I was very, very happy that I did. I had a Mr. John O'Neal, who was just delightful, as a principal. And the teachers were 4 very, very friendly. And it was a very good start for my career as a teacher. We lived in a home where there was a widow with only teachers boarding there. LINDA: And this was before you were married? FRANCES: Before I was married. So I stayed there for the rest of that year and the following year. And then I returned to Fitchburg and looked for a position here, and I was selected at the E Street School. At that time, the superintendent had just been changed, and we had a Mr. Johnson from New York, from the state of New York, I don't know exactly where. And I told him, I said, "You know, I'm going to be getting married." And at that time, they said, "Well, usually you have to retire. You could sub, but you cannot be a permanent teacher in the classroom." And he said, "No, Fitchburg is laidback." He was very get up and go. And he said, "Things are changing." And he said, "They've already changed in New York. So I don't want you to even worry about getting married and losing your job because I think it's going to change within this year." And I said, "Well, all right." So I just listened to him. And as it was, he was correct. So then, I told him the following year… LINDA: And what year is this? FRANCES: I'm very bad with years, so I think it was '54. And I told him, I said, "I'm having a child." And I said, "I know that's definitely a no-no. I'll have to leave." He said, "Oh, no it isn't." He said, "That is changing, also." And so he said, "You continue, but you get your doctor's permission that you're fine and you're able to do it." So I was the first married woman in Fitchburg and the first pregnant woman in Fitchburg. And I stayed on until that whole, entire June, and I 5 had my baby August 6 th. And everybody was very accepting. I was in a small four-room school with just four classrooms and a Mrs. McKeel, who was delightful. She was [unintelligible – 00:10:19] and knew my family. And I was very well treated, so I had no complexes about it at all. LINDA: So you didn't receive any dissention even from the community? FRANCES: No, no, I didn't. Well, I think because I was inobtrusive or unobtrusive. I did not make waves at all. I just did my job, and I was very low-key. That's the way to put it. LINDA: Now, where was this school? FRANCES: This school was on Lindbergh Street, which is Route 2-A going to Boston, the old Route 2-A. And that's where I started here in Fitchburg. And then I decided to stay out until I had my family. So I was out of teaching for six years. I returned to teaching when my husband decided he was unhappy with private accounting and really would like to start his own public accounting business. In those days, a CPA could not do any advertising at all. And I knew he was worried about the fact that he wouldn't be able to support his own family. So I decided to try to get a position, and we could live on my salary. And in the meantime, I spoke to my youngest sister, who is 10 years younger than I, and she was dating seriously. And I said, "Would you mind instead of working somewhere to take care of my children?" And she agreed. And so I had a wonderful setup if I was able to get the position. I talked to my pediatrician because I was very worried about the children. And he said, "If they're ever very seriously sick, I will take the car and drive right to your house." And so I never forgot Dr. Pick for that. And he gave me a couple of articles to refresh my mind that women have a right to have a career as well as a family. And they can do both very well. And so I did. 6 I was given a position by Miss Lyons. She was the assistant superintendent at the time. And I had a fourth grade at Hastings School. And that's where I started my career in teaching. I stayed there four years, and when Crocker School was built, I was one of the first to go into that new school. And I stayed there until I retired. So I was there for 68 years. LINDA: Sixty-eight? FRANCES: Sixty-eight. I'm sorry, 35 years or 36 years, 35 or 36 years. LINDA: Wow. FRANCES: So I was 68 years in age. That's what I meant to say. LINDA: First of all, your family sounds as if they were very progressive, especially your husband. FRANCES: Mm-hmm. The CPA business, of course, you had to wait for the telephone to ring. You could not advertise. LINDA: Why not? FRANCES: It was against their rules and regulations at that time. And it stayed like that for quite a number of years. And now, of course, they can do anything they want, advertise… LINDA: So how did he begin? Did he just hang a shingle out? FRANCES: He had to put a shingle out. And I don't know if he could even put something. I think he could put an announcement in the newspaper, and that was it, and just by word of mouth. And then there were public accountants and private accountants that knew him and liked him and offered to give him one of their jobs, and that helped him to get started. And then he get to know more people. And through word of mouth, really, it was developed. LINDA: And he continues today? FRANCES: Yes, he continues today. And he has his youngest son. And it's a thriving office. Instead of being a one-man band, he has three or four CPAs now there, I think, working in the office. LINDA: And what's the name of the business? 7 FRANCES: It's Mercadante & Mercadante. And then, my daughter-in-law took a payroll business that he had only eight people and made it into, I think, 70 clients now that do the payroll with her. LINDA: And what is that business called, or is that under Mercadante? FRANCES: No, it's her own payroll business. I honestly don't know the actual name of it, but Nick will be able to tell me. LINDA: So were the hardships worth it at the beginning? FRANCES: It was. I still had guilt complex about leaving the children. I came home at three; and in the first years, I did not take any courses. I just took the courses that were given at the school after school hours. And my sister would stay an extra hour, an hour and a half. And then I would come home, and I would just spend my time with the children and then cooking a full meal, and I would have my sister stay with me and have a full meal with her husband. And then eventually, she was married the second year and had a little girl. And I would babysit her little girl—I had a crib for her—so that she could go out and enjoy herself on occasion with her husband. And it worked out very, very well. LINDA: So she must have lived nearby. FRANCES: She lived nearby, yes. And then, when she expected her second child, then my mother talked to me about a Mrs. [Grassi], who was her very dear friend who was 65 years old. And Mrs. Rose Grassi was just unbelievable. She accepted the position here. She lived only five houses down the street from me in this… LINDA: Are we talking about this address? FRANCES: Yes, this address, right on Canton Street. And she enjoyed every single bit being another grandmother. We called her the third grandmother in the family. She was so loving and caring to the children. I would have to hide housework from her so that she wouldn't get worn out because she would always put her whole effort into caring for the needs of the children 8 first, and then worrying about the little things in the house that she thought I wouldn't have time for. She was just so special. And Fridays were a special day for the children. There was always a special goodie because it was the end of the school week and she wanted to have a special treat for them, might have been apple muffins or cookies. She made oatmeal cookies. She did so many things that were special. And to this day -- well, I'm thinking back college days. They would come home, and I never had to tell them to go and visit their grandparents, but they also would never forget her. They would go down and see her husband, Joseph, and Rose. LINDA: And now, these are other Italians, too? FRANCES: They're Italian. And, of course, both of them are deceased. But when Ann Marie got married, she went to the nursing home with her bridal gown on and her husband and had a picture taken. And she has that picture at our house. And whenever we have family gatherings, we talk about her remarks and how she used to cater to Anthony being the youngest child. And she'd say, "Oh, my goodness, your wife is so strict with that little [peachy mean]." Peachy mean is the little one. She doesn't realize he's still little; he shouldn't have the same choice that the other children have. And so we would talk about that. And so then, she would tell that to my husband. She didn't want to hurt my feelings, and so she was hoping that he would tell me to cool it with that youngest son of mine. But, oh, she was just a special, special person. To this day, I miss her whenever I go by her house. LINDA: Now, do you think that you would have continued with your teaching probably if you didn't have your sister and someone like Mrs. Grassi? 9 FRANCES: I think it would have been very difficult for me because I was a very -- they say cancereans are, but I'm very family-oriented, and I worry about the children and not being there if they really needed me. I was very fortunate that the family stayed very healthy in those teaching years. And so when I did have to take time off, it was very few and far between, so I wasn't hurting my teaching career by having a lot of substitutes in and out covering my class. I didn't want to do that because I felt that was my responsibility to my school. LINDA: You're of the generation that really invited people into your home to take care of children. How do you feel about outside daycare now with all the daycare centers sprouting up? FRANCES: I think I would peruse them very carefully. And it wouldn't be just one visit; it'd be several visits to make certain that you walk in there unannounced on certain days just to see what happens when they do have a child that's having a bad day and how they're caring for the child. And that would be my feeling. Then I think you could rest assured. I know we had a girl here on our street—and I know her mother very well —was [unintelligible - 00:21:12] daughter, Nana. And she has done a beautiful job. She takes care of 6 months old right to toddler age. And she has a lot of patience, but she only has maybe five or six children that age, so she can give them a lot of undivided attention. And she has her house set up for it. LINDA: What do you think are the most important attributes to taking care of children? FRANCES: I think loving them and making them feel secure is so important, because you are really taking the place of parents. And they feel very left out, that initial shock. Even when they are starting elementary school, we have a lot of problems with the first time they go to kindergarten or the first time they go to first grade, whatever it might be. That separation is very difficult for children. It's very difficult for parents. And so I think if you 10 have a warm, loving person that gives them the security that they're not going to be invasive and not take mommy and daddy's place, but be there for them, is very important. LINDA: What did you do to make sure that your children still felt important in your life? FRANCES: Oh, I would say, when I came home -- first of all, I always told them if there was anything majorly wrong and they felt they needed me, that they could call dad's office, and either Dad or I would pick them up at school so they would not be left thinking that no one would take care of them if they had something really seriously bothering them or if they were seriously hurt, you know, physical harm. And then when I came home, it was always a special treat. And that treat was to get together, and snack time was talking time. But even though I was talked out teaching, I made sure that I spent at least a half hour talking about the different things that may have happened. Some of them were very talkative and outgoing, and the others were very withdrawn. And so I had to reach them by just questioning very gently and not pushing the issue. And eventually, they started to tell me. If there was something on their mind, it would come out. But it was just during snack time before we started homework. And I would do that. And it worked out. I don't know, I think our parents that had to work in my generation had it easier because we all had the same rules and regulations in every household. So when they were playing with their friends, they heard the same rules. And they didn't feel that they were being slaughtered and overruled by very strict parents that had to work. They didn't feel that it was a difficulty. They just took it upon themselves, "Well, mom has to work because dad is starting a business." And then, of course, I could have left teaching. And 11 they were in the middle grades at that time. And I said, "If you don't mind, mommy would like to --" I'm always with Nana because I'm with the grandchildren now. I said, "Mommy would like to stay on stay on teaching. But if it becomes a problem," and I said, "we'll talk about it." And I stayed on because I wanted them all to get a good education, and I had them very close in years. They were 20 months apart, and the last two were 16 months apart. And so I knew that when the education started and paying the college bills, it was going to be very difficult. And our parents were good-hearted people, but they didn't have any kind of money to help us out. It was going to be our problem. LINDA: How did your mother feel about you working? FRANCES: She didn't mind it at all. Of course, she was an organist for so many years. But of course, that was part of her life because she started playing the organ when she was in her teens for the church. And she did it free of charge. And then I think probably when she was 30 or 40, they started to give her a dollar for playing the mass. And she had to take a cab down to the church there with the dollar. LINDA: So in a way, she was out of the house anyway. FRANCES: She was out early in the morning and then back at home all day. So if we got sick, Mother was there at the house. And the only time she was out of the house was Saturday mornings, and Dad was usually there or she would have a babysitter, or my grandparents were there. So there was always somebody reliable there. And then Sunday masses, she would play one or two. And we would be at one. And then Dad probably took us home. And it was never a problem. LINDA: Now, can you speak a little bit about the different generations? For example, what your parents expected and then what you expect and what your children expect. FRANCES: Well, I think that they wanted us to be kind to one another. Family was very important to them. And they enjoyed having the relatives come to 12 visit and putting a huge spread on at different times. We had my grandmother's people from Roxbury that would come up. And oh, they were such fun times. I remember my grandmother's brother, Uncle Rocco, and -- oh, maybe Great Uncle Rocco. And he was full of fun and had a beautiful singing voice, and they would get at the piano and my mother would play the Italian tunes. And then, of course, there'd be always a delicious meal to eat, and dessert. And then they would head back to Boston to Roxbury. And with my mother's sisters, I think we were the only ones that had a car. And then, we would take turns taking one family to the beach with us. And sometimes, my mom would leave us at the convent with the sisters if we couldn't fit everyone, and we would spend the afternoon with the nuns. And we enjoyed that. Now, in this day and age, they would think that was horrible. But they played games with us. Oh, we had a wonderful time. And there was goodies there. And then, Mom would pick us up probably six or seven o'clock. But it took much longer to get to Boston or to the beach because we had the old Route 2, and you had only two lanes. And it was a two-hour, almost, I think, trek to get to Boston. And so, family get-togethers were very, very important. And I think we all remember them as happy times. In our own individual families, we always had birthday parties. We did not get 10 or 15 presents. We got one present. And so the material things were a minimum. We got school clothes when we started school. And then when the change of the season came, we got warmer school clothes. And Mom and Dad very rarely bought new things for themselves. 13 We all dressed on Sundays. They were Sunday outfits. I remember that clearly. You would never wear dungarees to church. When my youngest sister was 10, and -- I was 10, and she was maybe just starting out, when she get to be 10 years old, that's when the dungarees started. But girls usually wore shorts in the summer with the skirt over. And it was a different era completely. And we didn't mind it. I don't remember anyone complaining. LINDA: So do you remember rejecting any of your parents' values? FRANCES: No. We went along with it. And sometimes, we'd be stubborn and bark at something, "Well, why can't I have a little more time doing such and such?" whether it be a game or whatever. And she'd say, "Well, it's time to hit our homework," or get busy for the things at hand, whatever it might be. And I think that's about the only thing I remember. And if we were arguing with our sister over some stupid thing, it might be, "Well, did you take my sweater out of my drawer? I didn't find it in my drawer, and you must have worn it. And now, it's in the wash. And you didn't ask my permission to do it." And I had my grandchildren two weeks ago, and the same thing happened. Olivia came in and she had on a sport shirt that belonged to her sister, Tanya. And I said, "What are you doing?" And she said, "Well, Tanya was ready to start an argument." And I said, "You know," I said, "when Aunt Theresa and I were growing up," I said, "she used to take something she loved to wear and wouldn't even ask me. And then, she'd put her jacket on and start walking down the street. And she'd say, 'Well, I'll wait for you at the corner.'" 14 And I said, "I never thought to look inside the jacket. But when she came home…" And so the two girls started to laugh. And I said, "You see, that doesn't change in families." Then I said, "It would be nicer if you asked permission, because there are some things that should be favorites and that should be left alone and then other things that you could share." And so that's the way my mother brought us up. In the very same way, she talked to us about that and she said, "Sharing is wonderful, and we should learn to do that. But there are some special things that you want to be yours, and that's okay." So I thought that was a good way of teaching my grandchildren, remembering their mother's words. LINDA: Now, your children have they taken many of your values and the way that you brought up your children? FRANCES: Yes, I would say so. Now, they have, of course, in-laws that are not of our same background. But still, in all, they have been following the same ideas. They're very loving girls. I have two daughter-in-laws, and so that makes a big difference. And then, we've had a lot of family get-togethers where they take turns. And I feel really wanted and so does the rest of the family. And I think that's half the battle, really. LINDA: Now, do you have two daughters and two sons? FRANCES: I have one daughter and three sons. Now, my oldest son has since been divorced. Now, I don't know how many years it is now. But they have joint custody, and I am very friendly with my ex-daughter-in-law to this day. And so when Christmas comes, I always remember her. And when I had my special affair, Italian Woman of the Year, she sent me a beautiful bouquet of flowers and a beautiful card with lovely notes from herself and the three girls. LINDA: Now, what is the son's name? FRANCES: Nicholas, Dr. Nick, yeah. LINDA: And what is her name? 15 FRANCES: Her name is Jayne. And she still goes by Mercadante. J-A-Y-N-E, she spells her name. LINDA: Now, is he remarried? FRANCES: He has not remarried. No, he's dating someone spasmodically. And he feels that his responsibility right now is his three girls. LINDA: And what about your other sons? FRANCES: And my youngest son is married to Deborah. And she… LINDA: And what is his name? FRANCES: Anthony. LINDA: Oh, okay, this is your youngest. FRANCES: Yes. And sometimes we call him Tony. And Dominic is unmarried, and he's up in Belfast, Maine, and he's certified architect. LINDA: And he's unmarried. FRANCES: Mm-hmm. Then I have my daughter in Harvard, and she's married to Roy Castor, and they have two beautiful daughters. I have all their pictures on the piano so I could look at them. LINDA: And what's her name? FRANCES: Ann Marie. And it's A-N-N and then M-A-R-I-E. LINDA: Ann, okay. Thank you. FRANCES: And she's a nurse midwife. She became a nurse midwife. And he is a small-town lawyer. LINDA: Interesting. Now, you talked about your mother playing the organ. FRANCES: Yes. LINDA: And I know that you're an organist, also. FRANCES: When she became elderly, she wanted me to continue, so I worked with her at the organ and played some of the masses when she was unable to. And then she finally retired, I think after 60 years of playing. But she started at, I think, age 12. So did I, just playing benedictions. So when people read my write-up for Italian Woman of the Year, 55 years of playing, or 50 years, it was really taking those years that I had played 16 occasionally, just benedictions. But I really played maybe 30 years, 40 years. LINDA: Now, did your mother play… FRANCES: She played funerals, weddings, yeah. LINDA: How did she learn? FRANCES: She learned from the sisters. I think it was the sisters that were at Saint Joseph's Church in Fitchburg. And I think they were the Sisters of Notre Dame. But they were a French order of nuns, and she learned from one of the sisters that taught piano and then taught organ. LINDA: And how did you learn? FRANCES: I took from the Mr. Williams here in Fitchburg. And then when I went to college, I took from Sister Lawrence Newey. So I had some training from two professional people. And so did she. LINDA: Does the tradition continue with your children? FRANCES: No. Well, Tanya is a very good player, piano player, and doing well with it. And then, Sophia, my 10-year-old, is playing. And my 9-year-old is playing the piano. She's starting with the Suzuki, Allesandra, my daughter Ann Marie's youngest daughter. And then, Antonia, her oldest daughter, is learning the flute, and has played the flute. And Olivia, who is the second one in my son's house, is learning the clarinet. And she's now starting with the saxophone. And I think we're going to start Nicholas—he's going to be 7 this month—probably with the piano because he seems to like it. He goes there and he doesn't pound on it like most children do. So we think that there's an interest there. LINDA: But your children don't play? FRANCES: No. Tony had lessons and Ann Marie did. And they gave it up in, I'd say, the upper grade school years. No interest. LINDA: So now tell me -- I guess we should get -- first of all, I feel like we're really rushing and we are because we only have about an hour and there's 17 a lot to cover, but I know that you have a very strong connection with Saint Anthony's. FRANCES: Yes, I do. LINDA: And there's a reason for that, and I'd like you to explain that. FRANCES: Well, first of all, my mother was born in the North End in Boston, and she came from a mother and father that came directly from Italy to the North End in Boston. Her mother came at age 15 to live with Aunt and start her life there. My grandfather was already there, and he was 10 years older than my grandmother. And they lived in the same apartment dwelling, many floors. I think probably there's six to eight floors in those apartment buildings. And he got to know her by seeing her scrubbing the floors, that they were very immaculate. And they get to talking. And he married her. And she was just, I would say, 16 when she got married. And she had my mother at age 17. And my mother was so small that she was three pounds. In those days, they did not have the hospital care that we have. And they used to open up the oven door and have it on a very low heat, and they would put the bassinet close to the oven door to make sure that the baby stayed warm enough, plus the blankets and whatnot. But they really worried about a three-pounder. And today, of course, there would be a facility for that. And my mother grew up very healthy and always had a weight problem, which is unusual for being so tiny as a baby. But she had a very healthy life. Now, when my grandfather had spent maybe several years or more in Boston, he became very unhappy and missed Italy tremendously. So one summer, he said he wanted my grandmother to take a trip back with the 18 three older children and see whether or not she would like to go there to live, because he was not too happy with… LINDA: Now, this is your mother's parent? FRANCES: My mother's parent. This is her father. So they decided to go back, and they did take the boat from Boston, and they went to Italy. And, of course, I think in those days, it must have taken almost three months to get there, or two months anyway. And when they arrived, it was summertime there, and for some unknown reason, my grandmother became ill there. We don't know if it was a change in the water, the kind of food, but they ate the same more or less diet. So we just don't know, but she became quite ill, and they had to come back by boat. And because she was so ill, my uncle was -- my great uncle, Father Angelo Cappenella, was a seminarian professor in Naples. And so he asked the bishop for permission to escort them back to the United States, and the bishop gave him permission. And so he came with the three children and his sister-in-law back to the states, and my grandfather just acquiesced and decided he had to learn to love this country as his own. But I'm sure it was just leaving his family. I think he was a very, very quiet man and very bonded to family. And you had people in the North End, but they weren't your family. They were acquaintances. And then after a while, he was comfortable. So then what happened is my uncle was situated in [Hayville] in the Boston Diocese. And Father Maseo, who grew up with him in the same town in Italy, told him that he had to go to the Springfield Diocese, and they wanted him to work in his diocese. And so eventually he was given the Fitchburg place where Father [Rossomano] -- and going to look here and see. This was in 1907. Our father, Reverend Pasquale Russuomo, an Italian missionary began founding the Saint Anthony Parish with 200 determined Italian 19 Americans. The springtime of 1908, April 26 brought the dedication and consecration of the new church building. And under Father Rossomano, returned to Italy in the fall of that year. Monsignor Angelo Cappenella assumed the pastorate duties for the young parish. He was only Father Cappenella at that time. And so that's where he was assigned. And then going on from there, do you want me to tell the history of the church? LINDA: No. FRANCES: All right. We'll stop there. LINDA: What I'd really like you to do is -- we may have time for that, but really tell me how your mother then got involved with Saint Anthony's Parish. FRANCES: Okay. My grandfather, knowing the custom in Italy, which was if you had a parish priest in the family, the family members would take care of the rectory in his name, help with the altar, and serving in every capacity until they had sisters to help out or nuns to help out. So he talked to his wife, and he said, "We're going to have to send at least two children there. I don't want him to be alone." And so my grandmother went right along with it. And she said, "What I'll do is take the train back and forth. I'll stay two days with them, make the food ahead of time, teach them how to do certain things, and then I'll come back and spend four days here." And so Aunt Anna became the second mother in command in the North End. And that was my mother's second oldest sister, and she helped my grandfather. And so they came to Fitchburg, and… LINDA: Tell me what their names were. FRANCES: Mary and Michael. And they were both Cappenella. Now when he came, he realized that to have these children have a normal life, they really should get back to their families. But the only one who eventually did go back to his family was my Uncle Mike. My mother, staying here as long as she did, had a niche here, and she made friends, and she didn't want to 20 leave my uncle. And my grandmother used to come often enough. And then the grandparents, and my grandfather and the family, would come on Sundays every once in a while. And they would have family dinners together. So she, more or less, I think accepted being here in Fitchburg with her grand uncle, her uncle, my grand uncle. LINDA: When did she start? FRANCES: She was 12 years old, which is a very young age. But when you look at age in those days, my grandmother was 16 when she was married. They had a maturity that we don't have in our own generation, let alone our children. They are really children at that age. They can't make serious decisions, yet these children seemed to be able to. They had a maturity about them that was inhuman. LINDA: Now, where did she go to school? FRANCES: She went to St. Bernard's Elementary. And I think she only went up to the sixth grade. LINDA: And tell me what she did at the rectory. FRANCES: At the rectory, she worked at the church washing linens, setting up the altar, doing all the things that the sisters did in later years, getting the music ready for the different functions and the masses. And then in the rectory, she had to clean it as a house, all the chores you have in a regular home: cooking, cleaning. She did some sewing, ironing, all of that. And then, of course, he was very helpful. He was an uncle who did not just sit. He would help her with the dishes and help her with the cleaning and whatnot because he felt it was a sacrifice for those two children to be away from their parents. And he appreciated the fact that they were there. LINDA: So this is about the time she must have learned how to play the organ? FRANCES: Yes. She started taking lessons, I would say, early on, maybe 14. I would say about that age, probably. 21 LINDA: And did she look to the nuns as mother figures, do you think? FRANCES: I think that she just relied on her own mother when she came here. She was very, very secure. I think my uncle priest had a kind way about him. So he was sort of second father in command, and they related to him very well. He was not an abusive person. He held his temper. I think later on in the parish, we heard that he would lose his temper at times because that parish was built up on pennies. People did not have a lot of money, and it was very difficult for them to get into the habit of giving to the church, because in Italy the churches were paid by the government, a very different thing. And so when they came here, they couldn't understand why they had to support parish. That was a very difficult thing. LINDA: Did parishioners have to purchase a pew, let's say? FRANCES: I don't remember that much. But if the church was being redone, they would want a family name. So I know the windows would have a family name on them. I think some of the pews did have years back, but I don't know because they've been changed several times. And different statues were given in honor of a beloved person that died in their family. And so that was done. LINDA: So tell me a little bit about Father Cappenella, well, uncle to you. FRANCES: When I was growing up and my mom and dad were married, we lived three houses away from the rectory. The parish owned a three-tenement house that gave them money from the rent they collected to support the things they needed to have in that parish. At first, he had no nuns, and so the Irish teachers were wonderful to him. He had four or five of them. Alice Lyon was one. Mary Courtney and her sister were two more. Alice Keeney was another. And I don't know what he would have done without those Irish teachers volunteering to teach Christian doctrine and helping out with the linens, too, and helping my 22 mother out. So they were just wonderful to my uncle priest, and he always appreciated it. And eventually… LINDA: So were they just volunteering their time? FRANCES: Volunteering. Absolutely, after teaching, volunteering. LINDA: And now, where were they from? FRANCES: They were from St. Bernard's Church. Our mother church was St. Bernard's on Water Street. LINDA: Now, they must have needed the permission from [unintelligible 00:52:37]. FRANCES: Yes. And I'm sure that he gave them permission. And so that was a wonderful tribute to that pastor in caring for a mission church that was just starting out for those people who came from Italy and did not know the English language quite yet. And so he would start his mass in Italian at first. And then as time went on, it was just one mass in Italian and all the other masses were in English, because most of the Italians had that feeling of wanting to be accepted in this country, and they wanted this adopted country to love them the way they loved their natural home in Italy. And so they thought learning the language was an asset to them. And so a lot of us who had mothers and fathers who could speak fluent Italian did not have that training of hearing the language because they would just talk to the children in English, whether it was broken English or not. And they would speak only to the grandparent in Italian. Now, very many of the families did that, but there were still some families that talked Italian only at home. But that's the way we were brought up. And there were many families like ourselves where they just spoke English all the time. LINDA: Looking back on that, do you think it was important for assimilation reasons? FRANCES: When I think of the problem we're having with the Spanish people, I think that maybe it did help. And I taught in a school where the people came 23 from Finland and brought their children to school. And they spoke fluent Finnish at home. But when those children came to school, they learned the English language. And they did not put up any hesitation about the fact. They felt that this was their adopted country, and that when they got home, they would speak the fluent Finnish with them. But they were also going to learn the English from their children. And the attitude is very different. Now, I don't know about the Canadian French, because, of course, they can come from the country of France, they came from Canada. And I think it was very similar because they kept their language, but they also learned English. LINDA: But on the other hand, the Italians really didn't keep their language, did they? FRANCES: No, we didn't. I would say there are very few families who did. That's my own personal opinion. But I know Doris's family spoke fluent Italian. And there's still some that were doing it, but it wasn't the majority. I think it was difficult for them to go into the workplace not knowing more English. And I think that's where the change occurred. They wanted to do well in where they worked to be able to support their families. So that was a definite must. We have to be accepted. We have to do our part. And secondly, the Italian language, even though they loved it, had to take a backseat. That's my personal opinion. LINDA: Did you ever feel it important to teach your children Italian? FRANCES: I was hoping that they would pick it up in school because I sent them to a parochial school, but none of them did, because it was just in class. And then they never attempted to try to talk except in class. LINDA: And you don't speak Italian? FRANCES: No, I never do, no. And that's why I'm taking beginning Italian right now. 24 LINDA: Did you speak Italian when you entered school? FRANCES: No. No. English. LINDA: So your parents spoke to you in English? FRANCES: Always in English. LINDA: Well, that's because it was really their parents who came over. FRANCES: Yes. LINDA: We're going out of time. FRANCES: All right. Well, do you want to continue, and I'll just skip that meeting? LINDA: Oh, I don't want you to do that. I can always come back. FRANCES: Oh, sure. LINDA: I can come back at a later date. FRANCES: But if this is a convenient day for you, why don't we just try to get quite a bit of it done? LINDA: Okay. FRANCES: I think we should do that. LINDA: Okay. So again, I'd like to go back to Father Cappenella to get some maybe personal stories, anything that you can share that probably the average person may not know. FRANCES: Well, he was a very giving person, and he felt even though he had the help of those Irish teachers, he needed to get sisters here to bond the parish together more so. And he felt that with the nuns, they could teach Italian. They could teach embroidery, have a pre-school. And all of these things would help the new families coming directly from Italy. And it would nurture his parish, too. So he moved out of the rectory—that was part of the church in those days. There was sort of like a little L, and there was about three floors. And when I first went to the convent, that's where we would stay, so I got to know it very well. And he decided to move to Salem Street and then to the house, the [Ritchie] house. And he stayed there until a new rectory could be built. And so he did that. 25 And when he had those sisters, then they took over the pre-school and started [Sagalopi's]. LINDA: Now, who were the sisters? FRANCES: These were the [Venereen] Sisters. And, let's see, I think that is mentioned here. They came in 1919. Four sisters of a congregation of [unintelligible - 00:59:29] Venereen Sisters arrived from Italy to teach in the day nursery, to conduct classes in religious education, and to assist the pastor in caring for the needs of our expanding community. And it says, at that time the sisters lived in the -- well, was really part of the church. It was really the rectory, the initial rectory on the church. LINDA: So Father Cappenella was really instrumental in bringing [unintelligible - 01:00:03] here? FRANCES: Yes, he was. Absolutely. Yes. And that was a very close time, especially the first nuns that came. Oh, he was very fond of them and couldn't do enough. In hot weather, I can remember the years when he was able to afford a car and he would take us to Quentin when he had to confess the sisters and the presentation at their convent. They always sent a different priest so the nuns would feel comfortable confessing their sins. And he would take us for a ride and buy ice cream for us. And then when we got back to Fitchburg, he would say, "Now, I'm thinking all our nuns with all those robes on," and he said, "this hot weather," he said, "we have to stop at a store and I have to buy them a box of ice cream." In those days when you went to an ice cream place on the road, they just had the cones. They didn't sell it by the bulk as they do today, so we had to stop elsewhere and get them their ice cream. And I always remember that. And there were things that -- he always wanted to make sure they had enough heat in the wintertime, and then if he got too much from someone's garden -- but most of the time, people would take some, I 26 should say, to the convent. But if they forgot and he had over an abundance, he would always bring extra food down there or give them special treats that they couldn't afford. And he just felt that they were really the heart and soul of our parish. And I feel that that's why we grew so well through the years from one generation after another. It was those initial Venereen Sisters who really, not only gave us stronger faith, but the family life being so important, they instilled it in us in the way they treated us and the way they talk to us. And I think that helped all those good families, and it helped my mother's generation, the first families, and then my generation. And when I get together with people that are in their 60s and 70s, they still remember, and someone their age still remember those first nuns with joy and with special feeling. We just can't help it. They're part of our life, our parish life. And we have such a warm feeling about them. LINDA: So tell me more of what they did for the community. I know that they preached a stronger faith and a strong family. FRANCES: Yes. LINDA: But how did they lead by example? FRANCES: Well, they were very instructive with the children. So they had classes in Christian doctrine. And through their example, of course, they taught us plenty. But they were actually teaching us Christian doctrine, and not only that, the classes in pre-school, bonding with us in things of everyday life, not just faith, just not religion, but games, playing games with them. I can remember one little Italian game that I'm teaching my grandchildren. We had to, in pre-school, make believe we were butterflies. And we would flip our hands and walk and just hop around in a circle. And then she would teach us—and this was Sister Michaelena—and she would teach us sofaleena bella bianca vola bola nuncy stunka, which means 27 butterfly, butterfly beautiful and white, always flapping their wings and flying and never getting tired. And fly here vola coo a volala, fly there never, never getting tired. And so that little nursery rhyme was the little game of running around in a circle with our hands flapping up and down. Those brought a lot of happy memories back. As a child, a very young child, I can remember that. And a lot of my fellow friends my age remember those things. Now, we also remember that when we were at mass, we had to tow them up. There was no talking, and we had to pay attention. And in those days, it was difficult because it was in Latin. And you know how bored our children are with just going to church, let alone sitting there for an hour listening to Latin. And there wasn't the -- well, people participation the way we have it today. And so, it's a big difference in the worship of the mass today in this generation and when we were little. And I think it's much for the better. But we still honored our parents and our grandparents and our sisters with good behavior. If we were an itchy type child, we just wiggled in our seats, but we stayed where we were supposed to. I think it was definitely a deep respect and care and love for the teacher as well as our parents that made us do that. That's the only thing I can think of because I brought up four children, and my oldest one was a very big itch and is very active compared to the other three. And I would have to tell him several times whereas the others I never had to tell them. But we have all different personalities. And I'm sure there were some of us in that generation that were very antsy and wanted to move about. But because of the respect we had and the love for our parents and our priest and our nuns, we held back. We held back enough [gap and go]. I don't 28 know what you would say, but tolerance. Yet it was more than tolerance, was caring. LINDA: I get the impression that maybe you don't think there is enough caring and respect today. FRANCES: I think that the parents are too involved with making too much money and huge houses, and the sense of giving has gone to extremes. And I think the nurturing and the loving, we're so tired because I think in this day and age to do the shopping and take care of a family, have a part-time job, if not a full-time job for both mother and dad, is overwhelming. And the children are in so many organizations today. You're in the band, as I am, picking them up from soccer, field hockey, then it's instruments that they're taking up, dance. And we're spreading ourselves too thin in the meat and potatoes. The most important thing is family life and spending some time with our families. And there are some families today that don't even have one meal together. Now, that was something I insisted on when my boys were in high school and they were into different sports. I didn't care if the last one came in at 7:00 p.m. at night. We ate at 7:00 p.m. But I wanted us to eat as a family. So they could have snacks to hold them over, but I wanted us as a family to have a meal together. And very rarely, we had a conflict where we just couldn't do it. I tried to make that a rule, not just Sundays. And Saturdays were fun days for us. We had really leisurely breakfast in the morning, and we took turns making it, and we invite my milkman in. And I can remember how amused he was when Tony was making breakfast and he was in the third or fourth grade doing it. 29 But I think we have to go back to doing that. We've got to cut back on some of the stuff that's not needed. And too much material things, we don't need, too. LINDA: So whereas you worked really to support your family it was important. FRANCES: That's right, we did. LINDA: Your feeling is perhaps some of these people don't need to work as hard or even work at all if they're only buying more. FRANCES: Yeah. LINDA: Is that it? FRANCES: That's it. But, of course, today the thing has changed. Education is far more expensive than it was when we were bringing our children up. And so now, if you wanted them to go to a school—and even your state schools have gone up in the price of education—you're going to, if you have your children close in age, go out and have an extra pay coming in just for the education. It's that difficult today to educate your children. LINDA: Getting back to sharing a meal, do you feel that was part of your Italian heritage? FRANCES: Yes, I think that my mother made that very distinct because my grandmother did, too, before her. It was always -- she wanted us at least once a month to go to Boston and be with the rest of the family. And if she couldn't have everybody at the meal, we had to come for cake and coffee, those who lived in that grid, to join us so that we were all together. She wanted everyone there. And my mother was the same way. And when my mother was unable to do it physically, we would take turns and do it for her and take turns at our homes so that she would have that feeling at least once a month of all the children. LINDA: Do you continue that tradition? FRANCES: I certainly do. What we do is birthdays are very prominent. And we try to limit the number of birthday get-togethers. So we take the month of October and group them together. Now, Poppa G has a birthday in October, October 4th. And CeeCee, our youngest granddaughter, is 30 October 17. So when the family gets together, we try and get a Sunday where everyone can be together, or Saturday, and we have a cake for each one, a little cake for each one. We have plenty of ice cream. And we make the meal together. And they really enjoy it. And the cousins get to know one another more. And they learn to adjust to the temperaments, too, because sometimes one of them is off kilter on that day and wanting their own way, and they have to learn to bend like they do with their own siblings in their own home. And so I think it's a good lesson for them, and it sort of bonds the family. LINDA: Just talking to you for this short while, I feel that you don't mind bending. FRANCES: No, not at all. No. That's so important. And I try to adjust because I know I'm dealing with daughter-in-laws that come from a different background, who probably never had this. And it's too much togetherness in my family. And so I try to take the median of let's join the birthdays together. And then now with the family getting too big, at Christmastime we've started picking names because they were opening up too many presents. And I didn't like it, and neither did some of the parents. And so we started the limitation. Now the children know they're only going to get two names, two presents, one from their family and one -- I'm trying to think how they do it. It's just been recent that we've been doing that, those past two years. I know we do it at Thanksgiving time. We put names in a hat or a bowl, and usually it's a bowl. Oh, I know what it is. I'm thinking of every parent picks one for their child and so that everybody has one name. And so everybody gets at least one present. Now, we were doing the godchildren, but then we decided no, we're going to do it at birthday time. And so it has cut down the pressure of Christmas tremendously. And now 31 we can really enjoy Christmas and work on food and what we make, the specialties of food. And it's just the one gift. And I think it ends up with two gifts that they get. And I've forgotten how we do it. I have to ask my daughter again. LINDA: Is that the same for you and your husband? You just have it for one? FRANCES: Oh, yes, yes. And for their birthdays, the grandparents always remember every child, because that's the way we want it. LINDA: Now, again, you sound very patient. Has your patience ever been tried? FRANCES: Oh, yes, many times, because sometimes they don't want to have it on a certain day. And I will wait, and sometimes the month goes by. And I will say, "Well, I'm missing having our get-together." And I just wait it out, and it comes to fruition. LINDA: So not just about the birthdates, but just life decisions. FRANCES: Oh, yes, definitely. We have to bend. I have to realize if they're coming from a different culture, a different mom and dad than I had, and if I can't be bending how can my children be bending with their wives or husbands? And that isn't a good example. And then it's not definitely a good example to the grandchildren. And so there are going to be changes and difference of opinion because we're all different. We all don't vote Democratic or Republican. And so we've made a rule, but we're not supposed to talk politics. And things are going to irritate for no reason. They have nothing to do with our family life, and they're not going to infringe on our family feelings by any means. It's not going to change it. And so we drop those things. LINDA: And how is a woman like yourself, who is so strong with her faith and Italian, accept your son getting a divorce? FRANCES: It was very difficult for me. But he didn't want the divorce. She wanted the divorce. And irregardless of it, you have to go along with -- if their marriage -- I definitely talked to them about going to counseling, and they did. And after that, I said, "You have to really think about the children 32 and what's going to happen and make your decisions caring about the children because," I said, "they are going to be hurt the most." And they have done that. At first, there was bickering going on, and so they separated. He went to the condo so that there wouldn't be that going on. Until they calmed down. Now the relationship is fairly good. And they're able to talk about the problems at school, the problems at home with each other and be very, very understanding of each other and caring. And that's very important to me. Another problem I have with this marriage and divorce is that we were family friends of her mother and father for five years. And so her mother died 10 years ago, and I was very close to her. And so I, of course, saw her very close to her dying days, and I told her that I would always be there for Jayne, no matter what. And I don't find it difficult to be there. She hurt my son, but he hurt her, too. And the angels are in Heaven, as my mother said. So I have to look at both their personalities and both their qualities. She wants to go on. She does not want him anymore. I cannot make her love my son if she doesn't love him. And so I have to think about my three grandchildren and the fact that she's a very loving mother. And I have to go from there. And that's where I'm at in this stage in my life. And he's doing much better than he was. And she was his first love and his only love, and it was a very big adjustment for him. But he's over the worst of it now, I would say. But he still worries tremendously about his children. And sometimes, they have a different philosophy about education, or it might be jobs in the summer, simple things. But there 33 could be problems, and they have to learn to talk it out and… /AT/pa/pdj/es