Suchergebnisse

Diary and transcriptions of Capt. Samuel McBlain, 1835-1919. He served in the 44th NY and also the 140th NY in the Civil War. Later became a teacher,a farmer, a justice of the peace and a life insurance salesman.

Interview with Nunzio Roselli of Leominster, Massachusetts. Topics include: How he came to the U.S. with his family ten years prior, when he was seven years old. What he remembers about life in Sicily. His education in Sicily and then being put back two years, to first grade, when he came to the U.S. because he did not speak English. What his town was like in Sicily. What he remembers of when he first moved to the U.S. and how different things were from Europe. Stories he has heard from his family about World War II. His experiences in school. Italian traditions that his parents maintain. Cultural differences between life in the U.S. and life in Italy. How he started playing the drums. What school was like in Italy. How the food in the U.S. compares to the food in Italy. His plans to study music in college. ; 1 GREG CARCHIDI: Okay this is Greg Carchidi doing an interview, an oral history, with Nunzio Rosselli. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Buona sera, buona sera. GREG CARCHIDI: Okay, buona sera [laughter]. Okay. All right, this is Nunzio Rosselli [laughter]. We play in the same band [laughter]. All right. Nunz, how old are you? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Okay. I'm 17. GREG CARCHIDI: Seventeen years old, yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Eighteen this January. GREG CARCHIDI: All right. Is that -- what's your full name? NUNZIO ROSELLI: My full name is Nunzio Roselli, exactly what you said. GREG CARCHIDI: Nunzio Rosselli. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's it. No middle name, nothing. GREG CARCHIDI: All right. Could you tell us like where were you born? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Okay. I was born in Italy, first of all. Actually, in Sicily. Sicily. I came -- some 10 years ago, I came to this country, and I came with just my family. Actually, we came with my mother's sister, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: And her family. But then they left after two years and we remained here because, you know, felt good here, felt comfortable, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: All right. NUNZIO ROSELLI: So, but like most of my relatives are in Italy. All I have here is an uncle in Boston, an uncle in Fitchburg. GREG CARCHIDI: Who else? NUNZIO ROSELLI: All alone, that's all. GREG CARCHIDI: So just you, and there's -- what is it, your mother and father? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, we have a lot of friends. We have a lot of friends [unintelligible - 00:01:29].2 GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. So how old were you when you came over here to America? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I was seven years old. GREG CARCHIDI: Seven years old, yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Well, what was the life like over there? Do you remember anything? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, sure. You know, life -- well, it's a different type of things because people, they take it easier out there, you know what I mean? They worked less, okay? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: But they spend more of their time having a good time, you know what I mean? Like I'll give my uncle as an example, right? He's a constructor, okay. He works on houses and stuff like that, right? And he'll get work every now and then on his own, you know, to do something… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: And when he's not working, you know, well he's not making any money. But, still he sets money aside, goes out every night, you know, goes out with a few friends, go down to the local bar downtown or a café if you call it, go for a nice [speaking in Italian] or whatever you want to call it. And they'll have a few beers, right, have a few beers, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: They drink beer over there too? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Oh, that's good [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Beers or whatever you like, you know, and go home late at night. They go to sleep late over there. Twelve o'clock is like same as 10 o'clock here, so you know, so… GREG CARCHIDI: They have a lot of churches over there. Do they have a lot of churches?3 NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, yeah. Over there it's kind of -- the churches are all Catholic, you know. It's not, for instance, that you have your local Catholic church and your local Protestant church, you know. Everything is Catholic there. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Because the country itself is run by religion, [unintelligible - 00:03:09]. Not in that sense. You know I'm trying to say. GREG CARCHIDI: What town was it where you were…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: The name of the town is Santa Caterina, which means St. Catherine in Sicily [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: Santa Caterina. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Caterina. Hey you know how to spell that? Let's see… GREG CARCHIDI: Caterina? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Mm-hmm. GREG CARCHIDI: Did I spell it right [laughter]? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Wait a minute. You got an H there, right? GREG CARCHIDI: No H. NUNZIO ROSELLI: No H. GREG CARCHIDI: No H in Italian? NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, no. GREG CARCHIDI: Oh. NUNZIO ROSELLI: No H, just T. GREG CARCHIDI: Okay. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah don't forget the T [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: Caterina. NUNZIO ROSELLI: St. Catherine. GREG CARCHIDI: I just want to remember here. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Okay. That's in Sicily, right? NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's in Sicily. GREG CARCHIDI: All the olive oil and the mafia?4 NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right, that's right. GREG CARCHIDI: [Speaking in Italian] [laughter] Godfather, yeah. Let's see. You were seven when you came here, right? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Mm-hmm. GREG CARCHIDI: All right. You must have gone to school over there for a couple of years, right? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, two years I went to school there. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I went first and second grade, and then I never finished the second, and I finished it over here. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: And then I got put back here two years. GREG CARCHIDI: That caused the…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, instead of going to the third, I got put back in the first. GREG CARCHIDI: Really? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Did you feel like that you knew -- like when you finally did start school in America, did you feel like you were ahead of the kids in here, in America, or was it about the same, or was there a language problem or what? NUNZIO ROSELLI: The only thing there was, was a language problem, but I think as far as knowing stuff like math or stuff that didn't involve the language, I would know more because second grade over there is like fourth or fifth grade over here. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: They teach you with the same difficulty in all. But with just the language, that's what my teacher told my relatives, you know, my aunt and uncle, when I didn't pass and then they put me back in the first. She said, well, you can't speak, so he's going to stay back and learn, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. 5 NUNZIO ROSELLI: Just for the sake of the language, not so much the other things. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, oh that's…[laughter] NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh I don't care [laughter]. This is a recording. We must keep everything [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: Keep it clean. NUNZIO ROSELLI: It's kind of hard to, you know, when you're used to talking… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. All right. How about the people in your town there in Santa Caterina… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Santa Caterina… GREG CARCHIDI: Was it a rich town, or are they farmers? Or what do they do over there? What was the main…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: By all means, it's not a rich town. All right, if you were to judge it like, okay, a town in the United States. In other words, what kind of town would it be if it was translated to the United States, you know what I'm trying to say? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, it would be the equivalent of let's say something place Shirley or a small town like Princeton, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: But in size, it's small. I'd say it would be the size of… yeah, probably Shirley, would be the size of Shirley, real small, small town, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, most of the people that live there, the older people like my father's age maybe in the 50s or mid-40s, probably they worked on their land. They have a piece of land that the governments rents to them or gives to them or whatever, and they work on that, you know. And younger generations, you know, they're mostly involved with either going to school or something construction or something maybe mechanics, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. 6 NUNZIO ROSELLI: Stuff like that, you know. But it's by no means… it's not a big town. It's a real small town. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Nice town though. A lot of good times there [laughter]. A lot of nice, young people, you know, girls [laughter], people. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, a lot of young woman, huh? All right [laughter]. Did you have any room, did you think your family had any real reason why they wanted to come to America, or did they just…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, all right, we had relatives here. You know, at the time they were living Leominster, my aunt and uncle, you know. Now they live in Boston. So I guess what we did was we were going to come here for a couple of years, see what it was like, because my father was having a hard time with jobs over there, you know. They weren't easy to come by. And so we said we'd come over here and try, you know. If we liked it, we stay a couple of years. If not, we'd leave. So we came over, we stayed. You know we've just been here ever since, you know. I've gone back a few times, two times. My brothers have gone back few times too, you know. You know, we've all gone back a few times. GREG CARCHIDI: The refrigerator just went on, huh? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, sorry about that [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: It's okay [laughter]. All right. When you first got here, right, did you come by boat or you fly? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, we fly. GREG CARCHIDI: You flew Alitalia? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Alitalia, yeah. What else? GREG CARCHIDI: Alitalia Airlines. NUNZIO ROSELLI: We're Italian. We can't use Pan Airlines, you see. GREG CARCHIDI: Oh, nah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, it's going to be Alitalia [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: That's right. And you landed in Boston, right? 7 NUNZIO ROSELLI: We landed in Boston, right. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: That must have been what? What year was that? NUNZIO ROSELLI: That was '68, sessantotto. That's when President Nixon… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, that was when Nix -- you came [unintelligible - 00:08:28] [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right yeah, right. GREG CARCHIDI: They got the crook [laughter], the birth of the [unintelligible - 00:08:33]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: What the heck is this? What are you doing here [laughter]? GREG CARCHIDI: If you have any, you know, you can remember at all, like what are your first experiences? One of the first things that happened to you when you got here? NUNZIO ROSELLI: That was unique? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. That was like, you know. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh I got a few, but no [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: Well, so you were seven. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right. GREG CARCHIDI: You didn't have the [combats] on, did you? NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, no [laughter]. Well, I might have, you know [laughter]. No, let me see. I'm trying to think, actually. As far as the whole way of life, you know, it's so different when I got over here, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Because I mean, we weren't used to seeing all this many cars and things at the time, you know. But yeah, that probably have to be -- just the whole idea of the way of life over here, which is so different, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: People were different. It wasn't as close, you know what I mean? It wasn't like you know your neighbor.8 GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, like in Sicily, you knew all your…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, you knew what was going on. GREG CARCHIDI: Paisans and. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right. Yeah, paisans. GREG CARCHIDI: I mean, of course you come to Boston, right? You landed in Boston. You must have freaked out when you saw [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You say, "What the heck is this?" Oh, you know, I've seen big cities like -- you know, there were a few big cities near my hometown, you know, but it was just a different type of an atmosphere too, you know. It was set up different, you know. The cars were big, you know, so what the heck is this one, bus? GREG CARCHIDI: And when you came to Boston, you saw… NUNZIO ROSELLI: I used the small cars in Europe, you know, and you see all these [laughter] tanks. GREG CARCHIDI: The food is same thing. The first thing, is the food any -- like you eat different here, or…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, when we get over here, I remember the first thing I think I tasted that was really big was potato chips. I didn't like it. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I don't like potato chips at all. And I really didn't like it. But after a while, I developed at taste for it, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, I like potato chips, but you know, at that time, especially those Ruffles with the ridges, you know what I mean [laughter]? Funny flavor [unintelligible - 00:10:57] exactly what it was, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, any idea of hamburgers… GREG CARCHIDI: McDonalds and stuff… NUNZIO ROSELLI: McDonalds, you know. It was different, but I'd still rather eat Italian still.9 GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, that's what we eat at home. We're not the gravy and potatoes type people, you know what I mean? GREG CARCHIDI: Oh yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I mean potatoes… GREG CARCHIDI: Unless it's sausage and… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, unless it's sausage [laughter]… GREG CARCHIDI: Like the peppers and the onions and the garlic. They can keep McDonalds. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: They can keep it, man. All right. When you first settled down, when you came to America, did you come right to Leominster? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, right. Like I said, we had a set of relatives here, and we lived with them for a couple of months until we found our own apartment. And we lived in an apartment for about eight months, then we found another apartment. We lived there about six years, then we moved here and we bought this house. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. Nice house. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Thank you. GREG CARCHIDI: You've got your drums on there, huh? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, I got all my stuff yeah [laughter]. We've been living here about four or five years, so. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: We enjoy it here. GREG CARCHIDI: Right, nice. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, nice part of town. GREG CARCHIDI: All right, I don't know maybe… when you were growing up, I mean, did your parents -- do you remember anything that your parents said to you about -- like they must have lived through the war in Italy.10 NUNZIO ROSELLI: Mm-hmm, yeah. They tell me a lot about their experiences, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, bad experiences. Good experiences too, you know. There were things that, you know, they remember about the war that they can relate too, but you know, I mean, what's there to say? It's just going to… GREG CARCHIDI: They made it through alive. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, they made it through, yeah. My mom always told me about her father. He joined the service. He had to join, you know. It was drafted for… GREG CARCHIDI: World War II or World War I? NUNZIO ROSELLI: World War II. GREG CARCHIDI: World War II. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right, and he was there for about few months, then they send him back because he had too many kids, so many kids he couldn't really, you know, be involved with the war and take care of the family. Because, you know, in Italy, in other words, in Italy it's not like over here. I don't mean to get off the subject or anything… GREG CARCHIDI: No, that's okay. NUNZIO ROSELLI: In other words, there isn't as much… women's lib, you know what I'm trying to say? GREG CARCHIDI: Things like that? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: You mean like white for the flag and the… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, no. What I'm saying is the woman's place is in the home, okay. In other words, my grandfather was out fighting, okay? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. 11 NUNZIO ROSELLI: And he wasn't home, and he had all these kids to take care of. Who's going to take care of them as far as supporting them, you understand? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: So they had to do things like that because of the way life is in Italy, you know. The woman really isn't as free as over here, not really free. I don't know if this is true with you. It's just… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Just a way of life, you know? I don't know. GREG CARCHIDI: It's definitely different, yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, but you know, about the war, yeah. My parents told me stories about the soldiers used to come to town. Like all right, the soldiers used to come and used to give the kids candies and stuff like that, you know, and then they used to give food from some of the neighbors, you know, the Italian food, because [unintelligible - 00:14:26] or not. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Wow. NUNZIO ROSELLI: [Unintelligible - 00:14:33] experiences. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. So what school did you go to when you started school over here in Leominster? NUNZIO ROSELLI: That was at Priest Street. GREG CARCHIDI: Priest Street School? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right, up on… GREG CARCHIDI: Your Doyle Field up there? NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, no, wait. Pierce, I'm sorry. GREG CARCHIDI: Pierce Street? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I got it mixed up. Pierce Street, yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: So you lived up in North Leominster?12 NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right, that's where we moved to, right, yeah. I always get the two schools mixed up. GREG CARCHIDI: It's funny. I interviewed my grandmother. When my grandmother first came to America, that's the school she started. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Is that right? GREG CARCHIDI: Pierce Street. This is back in 19 -- oh Jesus, 1910, 1911, 1909, right around… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Amazing, that's [unintelligible - 00:15:16] [laughter]. Those of you who don't know what wig is [laughter] don't ask. That's great [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: So you started school there, and then you went right to like sixth grade and stuff? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, I moved to… Fallbrook. GREG CARCHIDI: Fallbrook. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, I went to Fallbrook, then I went to Lancaster Street, then I went to, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: How long did it really take you to kind of get the language, the English language, down? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I'd say after about a year and a half, you know, pretty good, you know, to it, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Because I could speak pretty good after about a year or so. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: But still, it's a lot of the vocabulary, it takes years to pick up on everything, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Because you're never sure if some of the words they're saying, you know, what exactly are they saying, you know? I always said that to myself. GREG CARCHIDI: Did the kids in school act… how did they treat you in school, say like in fourth or fifth grade? Like if you spoke Italian in front of 13 them, did they look up to you like you were really something special, or…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, yeah. In a way. GREG CARCHIDI: Celebrity like… NUNZIO ROSELLI: In a way, yeah. But I don't think there was that much of a difference, you know, between me. Once I got in the fourth grade, like when I was in second, I was different. But you know, like you say, you know, when I used to talk, I used to say well, what is this kid, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. Did they ever call you [guinea] or anything? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Did you ever get to any fights when you were little, you know? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh yeah. I got into a fight once, I remember. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. I used to detest them. They'd call me wop or guinea or something. I used to be hurt for that. I don't like that. No, you know, if a friend says, you know, let's knock it off at school. But when I was little, I used to be really serious about it, you know. But now, you know, unless the guy's really serious about it to me… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's the only time I take it. It's weird, but yeah. That happens. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. Did you and your family belong to any social clubs? When you first came over, did you get in like -- what do they have? They used to have the Corifinio Club and the…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, you mean Italian social clubs? GREG CARCHIDI: Italian clubs, or like the church or whatever. NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, not really. My parents really aren't much of, you know, people, like go out and get involved and like that you know… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. 14 NUNZIO ROSELLI: In Italy they were, because they felt safe. They felt, you know, more at home. GREG CARCHIDI: Everything was closed there. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah everything is closed, you know. You know, the language, you go out… GREG CARCHIDI: Right. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Social people there. But you come over here, it's a different thing, you know. They sort of lost their -- how do you say it? You know, they don't do it anymore. GREG CARCHIDI: Free spirit, or like… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, their willingness to go out as much or stuff like that, you know, because it's just a total different, different country, you know. They're still not fully used to it. GREG CARCHIDI: Really? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, they aren't, you know. They speak their language a little much better, you know. They can understand what you're saying. You know, it's still… but like I said, we get a lot of friends, you know. They're always over at somebody's house or somebody's over here or something's going on. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, that's good. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, you know. What are you going to do when you don't have many relatives, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. Do you remember like your first part-time job or something? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, probably [laughter]. Well, the first… probably I was a baby boy for about five years. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, I had two, three paper routes. I had one in Lancaster Street, and then I had one up here, five years [unintelligible - 00:19:19].15 GREG CARCHIDI: You're in a unique position. A lot of immigrants that -- you know, people that came over from Italy, the people that I know, it's usually like people my grandparents' age, you know? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right, the older people. GREG CARCHIDI: Which makes my parents, you know, native-born Americans, you know what I mean? And you were born over there, and then you came here when you were, what, seven? Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Mm-hmm. GREG CARCHIDI: And so I guess, you know, it's safe to say that you've adjusted pretty well to America, you know, to the ways of life here. But still, I think -- would you say that you have preserved certain features about Italian lifestyle, the Italian culture? Have you preserved those at all? You know, not really specific, but I mean as far as relaxing like on Sunday? I know I do, my family. You know, nobody's going to catch me up raking leaves on Sunday afternoon, you know, at two o'clock. I'm gonna be in the house eating dinner. You know, I could give a sweet shit if World War III was coming, man. Sunday dinner is… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Is more important, right. GREG CARCHIDI: You know what I mean? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well… GREG CARCHIDI: Do you still preserve certain things like that, or…? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. Well, my parents preserve a lot of things that are Italian. They have to, because I mean, you know most of their life was spent doing that, you know. It's only been 10 years that they've been here compared to 30 years in Italy or 40 years in Italy, you know? So they have a lot of things that -- I can't remember what, but [laughter]. Well, food's one thing, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: Food… NUNZIO ROSELLI: The way you celebrate certain holidays. GREG CARCHIDI: Right. 16 NUNZIO ROSELLI: Even the way you treat guests, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, like I said, my parents -- all right, in other words, as far as being hosts and stuff like that, they host more like an Italian host than somebody over here would host people, you know what I mean? It's a different type of… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I don't know how to describe it… GREG CARCHIDI: I don't know. It seems to me like I've been… most of my friends were Italian, but I don't know. You can tell right away when you go into an Italian household… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right, right. GREG CARCHIDI: Well, especially when the people are from Italy. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Because the house is set a certain way, and in other words, you know… I know a certain openness about the people, to strangers… GREG CARCHIDI: Right. Or for meetings… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, "Sit down, have a drink," you know, all the stuff like that, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Want a drink? Want something to drink? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Want a beer? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, all right. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. I'll get upstairs… GREG CARCHIDI: Okay, we'll have a timeout here. NUNZIO ROSELLI: All right. GREG CARCHIDI: Time off against it [laughter]. Okay. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Even if it's all for just a quick call. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh yeah.17 GREG CARCHIDI: The hospitality is nice. Personally, yourself, have you ever had any bad experiences here or in America? Or is there anything that has ever affected you to the extent that you wish you were back in Italy? You wish you went, you know, you wish you still lived there? You wish you lived your life there, you know? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, when I first moved here, there were a lot of things that hit me. The biggest thing I'll tell you was the freedom, you know, like kids over there had a lot more freedom, okay? By that, what I mean is every night you go out [laughter]. I mean, a 7-year-old kid will be out downtown in a bar and with a few friends of his, seven, eight years old, nine, whatever. GREG CARCHIDI: Really? NUNZIO ROSELLI: They'd be out there, they'd order a beer, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: You can go order a beer or order a glass of wine? NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know what I'm trying to say? Or you know, even if you don't do that, you go out every night. You're out, and you're in a place where there are a lot of people, you can meet a lot of people, you know what I'm trying to say? But over here, you know, your nights would be spent home, you know? I've never seen winters in Sicily. The biggest winter I've seen is maybe 2 inches of snow, nothing really big, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Really? NUNZIO ROSELLI: And then all of a sudden I come here, it's five feet, you know? [Laughter] You walk out the door and say, "What the hell is this?" you know? GREG CARCHIDI: With all the snow. NUNZIO ROSELLI: But I think it's mostly the freedom that I had over there as a kid that I never had here, that I'm starting to enjoy now that I'm, you know, 17, 18, that I can go out, you know, have a good time that way, you know. I couldn't do that when I was younger.18 GREG CARCHIDI: So you think over here, they kind of postponed everything? They make you wait? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: They make you wait before they let you live. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, which in a way is good, in a way it's not. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, you got to think. They got to have some rules. NUNZIO ROSELLI: How is it that a country like Italy manages and a white kid can't manage it here? I can't understand that. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, I mean, see, in Italy, that whole attitude towards booze or something like that is different. You know, they don't think of it the way you think of a beer here. "Oh, kids having a beer! Oh! Hit him!" you know, do this… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Over there, the parents will get a kick out of giving the kid a beer, you know, "Drink it." Here, "Can you drink this?" [Laughter] No, no… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, I had a little cousin, my uncle used to get a kick out of seeing him smoke. He was like two years old. GREG CARCHIDI: Really? NUNZIO ROSELLI: My uncle used to get a kick out of seeing the kid smoke and blow through his nose [laughter]. I couldn't believe it. I used to do it, yeah. It's the way Italians are, you know? We're, I don't know… different [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. What the heck, I admit it. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I don't know [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: What the heck [laughter], I admit it… NUNZIO ROSELLI: I admit it about you too [laughter]. 19 GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. Have you been able to form any opinion about the American political system? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I'm not much into that. I don't know about it because, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: Well, over here, you know, the politics kind of dictates how you live. I mean… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, well… GREG CARCHIDI: You pay tax, all kinds of taxes here. NUNZIO ROSELLI: All right, all right. As far as taxes, from what I see, it's too much over here, okay? It's good because the government is rich and all that and they can do a lot, and that's why the country's probably rich. But see, besides there being a lot of work and stuff like that -- but see, in Italy, you don't have the taxes that you got over here, okay? People make less money, okay? But they spend less on taxes, you know? And they don't work as hard. My parents always say how work over here is, you know, it's like hard compared to work in Italy. You work in Italy, you get a three-hour lunch break, you know? And if you work all year around, you get at least one month vacation, yeah, something like two weeks you get over here or one week, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Plus the fact that every night, you go out having a good time, something like that, you know? It's more relaxed. People don't work as hard. They have more time to themselves. GREG CARCHIDI: Everything is competitive over here. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Have you noticed that? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah that's right, that's right. GREG CARCHIDI: They compete for everything, I guess, [unintelligible - 00:27:01]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Even for your job, even for your job. See, I don't know, it's just different. That's the only thing that I don't like. But I'm used to 20 it, you know? I mean, I can relate to other American, I could relate to it, you know, as far as work, you know. It doesn't bother me because I grew up here, you know, so. All right, good night. SPEAKER 2: Go out [laughter]. I'll go. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Bye. Yeah, they go out a lot, gonna have a good time [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: That's good [laughter], that's good. You've given me most of your opinions about the people who lived there. NUNZIO ROSELLI: [Unintelligible - 00:27:48]. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, yeah, [laughter], you know. What else? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Talk, talk. GREG CARCHIDI: I mean, like heck, you lived in Italy for seven years, you know? There must have been a few things that really… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, I like both countries, you know, as far as opinion and the way of life. I'm used to the way of life here. You know, I'm not against it. I like the way of life over here. I like staying at home at nights, or -- you know what I mean, as opposed to always going out, like in Italy. In other words, people over there relax by going out and talking to friends, you know? Well the people over here relax by staying at home, watching TV, you know? In Italy, you know, you don't have TVs like over here. You don't have the entertainment at home… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: To do over here. Just stay home and just listen to the radio or TV. So people go out more, people go out to socialize with their friends, or there's a group of friends that comes over to somebody's house, you know. It's just a mock. GREG CARCHIDI: They play cards… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, play cards, have wine. People are just crazy over there. Just, you know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, they make a big thing out of it over here. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right.21 GREG CARCHIDI: They got to go out. The woman gets ready for four hours, you know. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: That's the way. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, it's different. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: It's a big difference. GREG CARCHIDI: It's true. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, and I could deal with either one. GREG CARCHIDI: Okay, I know probably your favorite hobby is music, because we play in the same band. So, did you start playing the drums when you were in Italy or when you were that young? NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, I just started playing that thing when I was 11. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I was in the fifth grade over here. Matter of fact, I started playing because I was sort of forced into it by my fifth grade teacher. I studied with this real mean Italian lady. Her name was Ms. Holera… GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: She was a nun at one time, you know. It was [unintelligible - 00:29:48] really mean [unintelligible - 00:29:50] you know [laughter]. Anyways, one day we got a call from the office, anybody wanted to try out for the band, you know, who could try out. And she goes I hope everybody in here is going to try out, because if you don't -- she made some remark or something. So I was afraid of her, you know. She said I'd better go down and try out, you know, or else she might get really mad at me, you know. I don't want that, so I went down. I was like -- hey, I thank her for it now, you know? GREG CARCHIDI: Really?22 NUNZIO ROSELLI: I wouldn't have gone down [laughter]. Hey, she was Italian, too. GREG CARCHIDI: But that's pretty good. But you never really had -- did you have any hobbies in Italy when you were, like, your first seven years of life over there? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Seven years? GREG CARCHIDI: You just did what the other kids did? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, what kind of a hobby does a kid have when he's seven? You know what I mean? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, they don't even start -- you know, over here, they don't even start with playing little league baseball until they're eight or nine, something. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You believe that I play any sports… GREG CARCHIDI: What did you do over there, you know, when you were little? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, for fun? I played soccer… you know. What do kids do? They just hang out. GREG CARCHIDI: Hang out… NUNZIO ROSELLI: [Unintelligible - 00:31:05] when I was seven, you know. Yeah, that's mostly what I did. I had a few friends around the neighborhood. We used to always meet. We'd meet like at eight o'clock in the morning, you know, when there was no school. We'd be out till 12, go home eat 12, sleep a few hours, and then after… GREG CARCHIDI: Go back to school? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, go back on the afternoon, you know, and just play [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: How was the school over there in Italy? So you must have went '67, '66. You must have gone to school over there. Did you go like five days a week like here? NUNZIO ROSELLI: No. GREG CARCHIDI: Three or something or whatever? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Not at all. I went six days a week. It went longer as far as the weeks go, but you only went from 8 to 12. You don't have to go in 23 the afternoon, you know? You went Saturdays, but you don't have to go. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: That's good. NUNZIO ROSELLI: They ought to keep that up. I used to like school when I was in Italy. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I had a teacher that really liked me. She knew my mother, and just really liked me [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: You were only 6, 7 years old. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, people in Italy mature fast. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, I know. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, I had sideburns when I was about 13, 14. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right, right. Don't you find that a lot of…? GREG CARCHIDI: I had full sideburns. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: When I was 14, I could have grown, you know… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right. GREG CARCHIDI: I had to shave my sideburns and my mustache. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, I started shaving when I was in the sixth grade. GREG CARCHIDI: Really? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Uh-huh. But as far as maturing, I don't know if it means much, but when I went over there a few years ago, I find that girls are like 13, 14, I mean… GREG CARCHIDI: Developed, yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Developed. They looked like they were 18, 19. GREG CARCHIDI: Well developed, yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: It's not [unintelligible - 00:32:58] I couldn't believe it. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. Hey, you want to go? Let's go, okay [laughter]?24 NUNZIO ROSELLI: No, no, it will freak you out. GREG CARCHIDI: Well, yeah. It's like over here. One of my other friends goes back every year, you know, Sandro Vittorioso. He goes back every year for [unintelligible - 00:33:16]. He goes to Italy. She has relatives that are still over there, and he says it's amazing, it's amazing. Just like what you're saying, he says exactly the same, because he's from a small, small town or village, you know. He says the same thing. He says people over here, you know, you can't beat this country for its richness and all that, but people over there, you know, open a store when they get up [laughter], when they get out. But when they have to wake up or when they do get up and all those siesta. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Is that [unintelligible - 00:33:53]? GREG CARCHIDI: Jeez, I wished they had that [laughter]. If we were good at our band, then we'd become good, real good… NUNZIO ROSELLI: We could have the same thing… GREG CARCHIDI: Real good, we could get rich. We could have a siesta every day, a little espresso [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: A little espresso. Yeah, that will keep you up if you get a siesta, isn't that right? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah [laughter]. Well, do you think you would ever go back there to live? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I might. But I really -- well, I used to think about it a lot more, you know, when I was younger. Because after I lived here for a year or two, I got homesick, okay? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I really got homesick. That happened, you know, all the way up to about five years, six years ago, you know, after -- I've lived for like seven years. Well, after I've lived here for about six, seven years, I started realizing, you know, I started growing up here, I started becoming, you know, more of an American, you know. I 25 grew up with kids that, you know, they were Americans. I talked to them in English. I did the same things they did, you know. I play football or whatever, you know? You know what I'm trying to say? So it's… GREG CARCHIDI: I don't know what you're saying. NUNZIO ROSELLI: So I sort of felt both ways… GREG CARCHIDI: You feel -- yeah… NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, when I went over there for a vacation at summer, I stayed out there a month, and I'm just used to it over there. It was like I never came over here. And I came back here, and I have a hard time getting used to it. But once I get used to it, I could handle over here. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know. GREG CARCHIDI: All right. I got a couple of other questions. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You mean that hasn't run out yet? GREG CARCHIDI: All right. No, no, no [laughter]. About 10 minutes, Nunz. Hang in there. NUNZIO ROSELLI: No problem. GREG CARCHIDI: I want to ask you. Like I know that we all, like, all of us Italian Americans here, we like salami… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Proscuitto, capicola, pepperoni with, you know, provolone cheese. I always wondered this. Now, the Italian cold cuts that we get over here, are they as good or close to what you get over there, the real thing? NUNZIO ROSELLI: No way. They're absolutely not, absolutely not. GREG CARCHIDI: You mean this is second-rate garbage? NUNZIO ROSELLI: This isn't even a second rate. I mean, this is… GREG CARCHIDI: This is real horse dung, man [laughter]? NUNZIO ROSELLI: If you want to compare it -- holy shit, you know, it is. 26 GREG CARCHIDI: So we're paying four, five dollars a pound for cured capicola over here? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right. They have in a ball over there, you know, good stuff. It's a big difference. Even the stuff they import from Italy over here… GREG CARCHIDI: It's not as good? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Nothing compared to the real, you know… GREG CARCHIDI: It's nice over there. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, nothing compared to it. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. As a matter of fact, we just bought some capicola. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Gonna hang it up in the other room there. GREG CARCHIDI: Oh yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. Hey, if you want a slice, you'll just slice it later on, man. GREG CARCHIDI: No, that's okay [laughter]. NUNZIO ROSELLI: You know, well… GREG CARCHIDI: What, you buy it from Italy? Somebody sent it over? NUNZIO ROSELLI: It's not from Italy, but it's from a store that's supposed to make it just like Italy. It's good. Don't get me wrong, it's good. GREG CARCHIDI: You know [unintelligible - 00:37:01] in Boston… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: In the north end in Boston, that's pretty good. NUNZIO ROSELLI: They're from Italy? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah, I think they make their own. Some they make their own, some they import. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Very expensive, but… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, you know, it's the same. The only thing about it that's kind of hard, the flavor's still not as good as the Italian. Anything, you just can't beat it, the sauce…27 GREG CARCHIDI: See what I mean? That's what I do on Sundays. You know, it's not what you like to do on a -- you gotta take a day in the weekend, you eat a capicola, sit down [laughter], pasta, antipasto… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Uh-huh, that's great [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: It's like Thanksgiving. The Americans, they feature the turkey Thanksgiving. We feature lasagna, you know [laughter]? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Manicotti. GREG CARCHIDI: Manicotti. NUNZIO ROSELLI: We had Manicotti in Thanksgiving. We had the turkey, but hey, you give them… GREG CARCHIDI: The turkey's last. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right [laughter]. GREG CARCHIDI: The turkey's last. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right. GREG CARCHIDI: Nothing against the Americans, but I mean hey, when they can make a turkey that tastes as good as lasagna or manicotti, then we'll eat it first, you know [laughter]? Well, all right. This is one of the things I want to ask you. Yeah, that's right. Okay, you're a senior now at high school, at Leominster High School. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: You're the head drum major for the band, the marching band. You've been in the all-state concert band your junior, and you look like you've got a real good chance to have a decent career in music, like -- I know you do very well in school. Do you have any plans to, you know, go to college for your education, or -- what do you think you might like to do? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Sure, yeah I'd go for a [mortician's] job, no [laughter]. It's like a friend of mine who goes to college for philosophy and gets out and becomes a [mortician]. I'm going for music, yeah. Definitely. I've thought about it for four years now, you know? I kind of decided against for three or four years, but this year I realized that, 28 you know, I can't go for [unintelligible - 00:39:12] engineering. I'm going to go there, you know, I'm just going to flunk out, you know, just -- because I can't do it. You know, I got to do something I like. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: I just couldn't go for four years, four other years in school. I'll take some courses like calculus again, yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: Well, do what you like. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right. GREG CARCHIDI: That's good. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's the way I feel about it. You know, my parents, they say, "Hey," you know, "what are you doing? You got to go for something that's," you know -- I think they kind of realized now that that's what I got to do. They have to respect me for it. GREG CARCHIDI: It's the same thing. A lot -- that's an American thing over here, [unintelligible - 00:39:48] parents. You're going to become a doctor, you're going to be a lawyer, you're going to be -- you know, my parents not as much as I know other parents… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right. GREG CARCHIDI: But you know, over here, you got the freedom to do what you want, when you want, and why. You know, why you want to do what you're going to do. You might as well take advantage of it. NUNZIO ROSELLI: That's right. Well my parents, you know, "Why don't you go for something like lawyer stuff?" I said, "I just can't do that. I see no reason why I --" you know, I can't do something like that. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: See, all right, my parents grew up in a time when work was scarce, the war was going on. So they're more inclined to feel that [unintelligible - 00:40:29]. GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. Well go ahead, go ahead. It's all right. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Can I stop over there?29 GREG CARCHIDI: No, no, okay [laughter]. No, it's okay [laughter]. Hurry up, the tape's running out. NUNZIO ROSELLI: All right, all right [laughter]. Well see, my parents feel, my parents feel -- they're more inclined to feel that work is something that you go to work, okay? That's not something that you have to enjoy as long as you make money out of it, you know what I mean? GREG CARCHIDI: Yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Because they grew up in a time in Italy when work was scarce, you know, and you have to make a living and stuff, you know. But I think they understand that, you know… they're not giving me a hard time about it, you know. I told them once, like I'd decided, I've made up my mind a few months ago and I told them, you know, they opposed it, but they haven't said anything ever since, you know. They're not going to bug me about it. GREG CARCHIDI: Hold it against you, yeah. NUNZIO ROSELLI: They can't do that. GREG CARCHIDI: That's okay. This about wraps it up here. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, finally. GREG CARCHIDI: But that's good. All right [laughter]. But it's interesting, Nunz, because… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Oh, nice talking to you. GREG CARCHIDI: Really, there's not many Italian immigrants that are, you know, your age around that can have and really express their opinion like you did. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: So this has been an interview, an oral history, [laughter] with Nunzio Roselli. You're 18, right? NUNZIO ROSELLI: I'm going to be 18. I'm sorry, I didn't tell it. January first. GREG CARCHIDI: And you skipped a grade, right? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah.30 GREG CARCHIDI: They kept you back then you skipped a grade in school. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Right. GREG CARCHIDI: You must have, because you're 17. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Well, [unintelligible - 00:42:03] should be out. I should have been out last year. GREG CARCHIDI: Oh yeah? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah. GREG CARCHIDI: But you did skip a grade? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Yeah, I did skip a grade because… GREG CARCHIDI: After you learned a lot? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Hey, they screwed me once, you know? They can't screw me all the time. GREG CARCHIDI: Hey, that's right [laughter]. Okay. So thank you very much, Nunz. Why don't you say goodbye to the people in your native tongue? NUNZIO ROSELLI: Arrivederci. [Speaking in Italian] and as long as you pay me an extra 10 bucks this week, you know [laughter]… GREG CARCHIDI: Say merry… NUNZIO ROSELLI: Buon Natale, Buon Natale. It means Merry Christmas. GREG CARCHIDI: Buon Natale. NUNZIO ROSELLI: Buon Natale. GREG CARCHIDI: All right gracias, gracias. NUNZIO ROSELLI: [Speaking in Italian]. GREG CARCHIDI: [Speaking in Italian], okay. This about wraps it up. NUNZIO ROSELLI: [Speaking in Italian]. GREG CARCHIDI: Now that's the way it is./AT/jf/cl/es

Interview with Mrs. Laasanen of Westminster, Massachusetts. Topics include: Mrs. Laasanen was born in Fitchburg, MA, but her parents brought her back to Finland when she was six weeks old. What life was like with her family in Finland. What life was like during the First Civil War in Finland. Why and how her parents moved between the United States and Finland. Mrs. Laasanen came to the United States when she was 18 and lived in Fitchburg, MA. What her life was like in the U.S. How she and her husband moved to Westminster, MA. What her children do for work. How she learned English. What she did with her leisure time. What she missed about Finland. Finnish traditions her family has kept. Her feelings about politics, freedom, and "the good old days." ; 1 SPEAKER 1: Mrs. Laasanen, where were you born? LAASANEN: Um, I was born in Fitchburg, Mass. SPEAKER 1: When was that? LAASANEN: 1911. SPEAKER 1: But you went back? LAASANEN: Yeah. When I was only six weeks old, my parents journeyed back to Finland. SPEAKER 1: And what part of Finland did they go to? LAASANEN: The center part of Finland, Karstula. SPEAKER 1: Okay. Could you briefly describe your early years there, with like your family or the jobs that your parents had? LAASANEN: Um, we lived on a farm and my parents had farmed it. And there were five of us children and schooling on elementary level and some higher. And the living conditions. my childhood memories, they are-are happy ones. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. LAASANEN: And there were no, uh, confusion or. just happy-happy years. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. LAASANEN: But I do remember vaguely some of the things that happened during the First Civil War. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. LAASANEN: The country was divided – the White Guards and the Red Guards. And brothers fought against brother. And I remember my uncle being drafted. It was very much against his will. And the sadness we felt when we said goodbye to him because he [unintelligible - 00:01:31] and saved, and he brought us girls beautiful dolls [unintelligible - 00:01:38]. And also, there was a shortness of bread and butter so the people turned to the forest and they used ground pine bark. SPEAKER 1: To eat? LAASANEN: Uh, yes. They mixed it with flour and made bread.2 SPEAKER 1: How did it taste? LAASANEN: Well, it's really. us children, we thought that was a lot of fun. And it didn't taste that bad but of course my parents didn't think it was too great. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. But you weren't. you were used to it. You got used to it because you were younger. LAASANEN: Well, we didn't have to do that very long because the war ended and things turned for the better. And this is another thing I remember, I was a little older then, that during the winter time, we used skis to go to school, ski over high snowdrifts. SPEAKER 1: How far did you have to go to school? LAASANEN: About two miles. SPEAKER 1: Two miles? Yeah? And was it a small school? One room? LAASANEN: One room and about 30 students. SPEAKER 1: All the same. all different ages? LAASANEN: All different ages. SPEAKER 1: Did you have a hard time learning that way? LAASANEN: No. INTERVIEWER: No? LAASANEN: No. [Laughs] SPEAKER 1: I never can understand how you can have, you know, like children who are 2 years old, or well, say 6 years old and those who are 10 years old and how you can teach them all at the same time. They break you up into groups sometimes? LAASANEN: Yes, they did. No difficulty. SPEAKER 1: No? LAASANEN: That's right. I enjoyed school, every minute of it. INTERVIEWER: So you were born in this country. Why did your parents take you back? LAASANEN: My father wanted to go back to Finland very much. INTERVIEWER: Why?3 LAASANEN: He was homesick. INTERVIEWER: Homesick? Yeah. How long had he been here? LAASANEN: Six years. INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay. What was the reason that he came here in the first place? Do you remember? LAASANEN: My mother had been here before. SPEAKER 1: She was? LAASANEN: Yes. And so he followed her into this country. INTERVIEWER: Before they were married? LAASANEN: They got married in Finland. SPEAKER 1: Oh, okay. So your father wanted to go back very badly. When he first came over here, was there any special reason just besides following your mother? Did he think possibly there were more opportunities or anything like that for jobs? LAASANEN: Perhaps so but he was very unhappy here. SPEAKER 1: As soon as you went back to Finland, did you go back to the same place that you had.? LAASANEN: Yes, in my father's hometown. SPEAKER 1: When your parents came the first time, do you remember how they came? Did they come by boat? LAASANEN: By boat. SPEAKER 1: By boat? Do you have any idea how long that might have taken them? LAASANEN: Well, I think in those days it must have taken over a month. SPEAKER 1: Really? Yeah. And that was probably inexpensive as compared to now. LAASANEN: Oh, yes. SPEAKER 1: Did you go back by boat, too? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: But you wouldn't remember that. LAASANEN: No. 4 SPEAKER 1: Did you just go back, just you and your parents? The whole family went back? Did you go with another family maybe? LAASANEN: No, just my family. SPEAKER 1: Okay. And do you remember them saying anything either way what the passage experience was like? Was it.? LAASANEN: The only thing I do remember was my mother being seasick. [Laughs] SPEAKER 1: Both times? Yeah, both? LAASANEN: All the way. [Laughs] SPEAKER 1: Yeah, really? That's what usually happens. So once your father came over here the first time, did he have any second thoughts about leaving Finland maybe? LAASANEN: I presume so. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. So he came over here just really to find your mother and bring her back? Probably mainly. LAASANEN: More less. Well, she wanted to come back to this country. She had been in this country already. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. She wasn't born here though? LAASANEN: No. Then she went to Finland and met my father and they got married and moved back to this country. SPEAKER 1: Were any of your brothers or sisters born in this country? LAASANEN: Yes, my sister. SPEAKER 1: Are you the youngest or the.? LAASANEN: I am the youngest of. well, my brother is first and then I have two younger sisters. SPEAKER 1: Oh, okay. What place did your parents enter the country when they first came? Do you remember? LAASANEN: In New York City. SPEAKER 1: New York? Ellis Island or.? LAASANEN: Well, they had to come through Ellis Island because they were immigrants. 5 SPEAKER 1: Did they ever mention to you what the first thing was that they saw when they came over here? Anything that made an impression? LAASANEN: I don't recall. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. What year was that that they did come? LAASANEN: Yeah. I was born 1911 when they went back to Finland. SPEAKER 1: The year they came would be 1905. LAASANEN: 1905. SPEAKER 1: Okay. LAASANEN: No. yes, 1905. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I think so. Did they ever say how your father felt when he came over here? Did he feel. like was he with other Finnish people? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So he wasn't a stranger. LAASANEN: No. Oh, no, no, no. SPEAKER 1: Oh, he had somebody with him. LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So was your mother there to meet him when he came? LAASANEN: Well, they came back from Finland together. SPEAKER 1: No, but when your father came over to New York to find your mother, did she meet him in New York? LAASANEN: She met him in Finland because my mother went back to Finland. That's where they met and they were married in Finland. SPEAKER 1: Oh, okay, all right. Because your father was not alone, he didn't have any communication problems here? LAASANEN: No, because my mother had been here before. SPEAKER 1: Could he speak any English? LAASANEN: My father? SPEAKER 1: Yeah. LAASANEN: Not when he first came, no. SPEAKER 1: No. But your mother could.6 LAASANEN: Some, yes. SPEAKER 1: Do you remember them ever telling you if they had to go through any physicals or any type of formalities? LAASANEN: They had, yes. SPEAKER 1: In Finland to get out of the country? LAASANEN: Not in Finland but when they arrived at the Ellis Island. SPEAKER 1: Did they ever say if they were treated badly maybe? LAASANEN: No, no. I don't seem to recall that. SPEAKER 1: When you went back with your parents, did your family have to go through physical exams again, especially the children who were born here in the States? LAASANEN: No, no, no. I don't seem to. they never mentioned anything. SPEAKER 1: Okay. So what brought you back to this country? LAASANEN: Well, my mother's admiration for this country. That was maybe the main reason. SPEAKER 1: How many years did they stay in Finland before they came back again? LAASANEN: They went back to Finland in 1911 and they never did come back to this country. SPEAKER 1: Oh, you were the one who came here? LAASANEN: Yes. First my sister and then my brother and then me. SPEAKER 1: Did you all come separately? LAASANEN: No. Oh, separately, yes. SPEAKER 1: Yes, all separately? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: What was it like when you came over here? How old were you? LAASANEN: I was 18. SPEAKER 1: And did you have to go through the whole process like your parents? LAASANEN: No, because I was an American citizen. SPEAKER 1: So you still kept your citizenship? 7 LAASANEN: Yes. Oh, I did. Yes. SPEAKER 1: So your parents assumed that maybe you would want to come back to America when you grow older? LAASANEN: Well, no. I don't know. I really don't [unintelligible - 00:09:13] because my mother used to always talk how wonderful everything is in America and maybe that's the best way to be. SPEAKER 1: Somebody telling you about it is the reason why you came over? LAASANEN: Most likely, yes. SPEAKER 1: Where did you settle when you came over here? LAASANEN: In Fitchburg, Mass. SPEAKER 1: You came right to Fitchburg? LAASANEN: Right. SPEAKER 1: Is that because your sister and brother were here? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Do you know why they came here in the first place? LAASANEN: Well, perhaps the living conditions in Finland weren't really. at that time, they weren't as good. And also because my mother used to tell them that this is kind of a nice country. SPEAKER 1: So your mother liked. did your mother know about Fitchburg? LAASANEN: Well, she lived in Fitchburg. SPEAKER 1: Oh, she did live in.? LAASANEN: . when she was in this country. SPEAKER 1: When she was here? Okay. LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Okay. And so, when you and your sister and brother came back, you had friends sort of and relatives? LAASANEN: And relatives. SPEAKER 1: And relatives. LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So did you live in the Finnish section of Fitchburg? LAASANEN: Yes, we did. Can I just correct one thing?8 SPEAKER 1: Sure. LAASANEN: My brother first he came to Canada because he was born in Finland and he first came to Canada and lived there for three years before he came to Fitchburg. SPEAKER 1: Okay. Since you were very young, how about the second time that you came over here. Do you remember any differences like between Finland and here, like scenery or.? LAASANEN: Well, maybe. Perhaps the vegetation were lush. SPEAKER 1: But otherwise. was it a little bit flatter, the land flatter? LAASANEN: Mainly, people seem to think that New England is very much like Finland. SPEAKER 1: Really? Did you find.? LAASANEN: The ocean, lakes, and the forest, and. SPEAKER 1: So it's similar? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Did you think that possibly maybe it was a little dirtier? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. That's usually what people find, that they don't take good care of their country. Where did you say you landed when you came here yourself? LAASANEN: In New York. SPEAKER 1: In New York? And how did you get to Fitchburg from there? LAASANEN: By train. SPEAKER 1: By train? And so, was anybody with you? LAASANEN: No, I was alone. SPEAKER 1: You were all by yourself? LAASANEN: Right. SPEAKER 1: But you knew some English? LAASANEN: No, I didn't, not a word. SPEAKER 1: How did you manage to.?9 LAASANEN: Well, my cousin was there at the boat to meet me in New York Harbor. And she arranged everything for me and put me on the train at Grand Central in New York. SPEAKER 1: Were you excited about coming to Fitchburg? LAASANEN: Well, yes and no. [Laughs] So young yet and so much, you know. I was kind of lost in my thoughts. SPEAKER 1: Did you perhaps come to this country thinking you'd go back home to your parents? LAASANEN: Very much so. SPEAKER 1: But you changed your mind? LAASANEN: I did make a trip to Finland in 1934. SPEAKER 1: How long did you stay then? LAASANEN: About a year. SPEAKER 1: About a year. But you decided to come back? LAASANEN: Right. SPEAKER 1: How come? Why was that? LAASANEN: My plans were to go back to Finland again maybe around 1940 but then the war broke [unintelligible - 00:12:10]. SPEAKER 1: If you had gone back the second time, do you think you would have stayed there for good? LAASANEN: I think so. SPEAKER 1: Really? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Was there anything that disappointed you in this country? LAASANEN: Well, not really, not to my recollection. SPEAKER 1: No? When you first came here, did you stay with your sister or your brother? LAASANEN: My sister. She had arranged living quarters for me and also helped me to locate a job. SPEAKER 1: What kind of job did you get? LAASANEN: Well, I did first domestic. 10 SPEAKER 1: Oh, and then what did you do? LAASANEN: Well, after a while, I got married. [Laughs] SPEAKER 1: Oh, you got married? What year was that? LAASANEN: Well, that was already in 1941. SPEAKER 1: You didn't work after you got married? LAASANEN: No. SPEAKER 1: Okay. So when did you come to Westminster? LAASANEN: 1948. SPEAKER 1: Why was that? Was it because your husband maybe wanted to move out? LAASANEN: And we wanted a home in the country. SPEAKER 1: So, Westminster has a Finnish population, too. Did that have any effect maybe? LAASANEN: He had a camp at [Wyman's] for many years and he liked this town and. SPEAKER 1: Did you stay at Wyman's for a while? LAASANEN: Our first home was. [I did housekeeping at Wyman's]. He had a camp. SPEAKER 1: So what kind of work did your husband do? LAASANEN: Well, he worked in a factory. SPEAKER 1: What factory? In Gardner? LAASANEN: Well, he is retired now [unintelligible – 00:13:40] in South Gardner. SPEAKER 1: Did he have a hard time adjusting. or was he from Finland? I'm sorry. LAASANEN: No, no, he was. he's never been to Finland. He was living in Gardner. SPEAKER 1: Oh, born in Gardner? Did you ever have any children? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: How did things work out for them? What about school for them?11 LAASANEN: Well, I'm happy to say that it has worked out very well for them. Our son is a doctor. He holds a PhD degree in Physics and he works in a laboratory. And our daughter is a registered nurse and she works in a hospital. SPEAKER 1: Do you think that they had a better chance in this country than they might have had in Finland? LAASANEN: Living conditions in Finland have changed so much for the better since I left that people over there have no difficulty now getting a higher education. I think it's just as easy over there now as it is over here. SPEAKER 1: When you came over here, did you ever think of going back to school? Did you go back to school to learn English maybe? LAASANEN: Night school. SPEAKER 1: Night school to learn English? LAASANEN: Five years. SPEAKER 1: Five years? Really? Well, that's so. you were really determined to do it. LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So when you first came to that neighborhood in Fitchburg when you were 18 or so, were the people very friendly to you? LAASANEN: They were friendly, very nice. SPEAKER 1: Did it take you much time to become involved in the social activities or religious activities? LAASANEN: No. Almost immediately, I joined youth group in the church and some other activities. SPEAKER 1: So you got mixed right in? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: That was right in the area. Did you ever go to any activities outside? LAASANEN: No. No, I didn't. 12 SPEAKER 1: What were some of the things that you miss most about your home? LAASANEN: I miss my home [so I'm being] terrible. I miss my long walks in the woods and I miss skiing. SPEAKER 1: You couldn't ski that much around here? LAASANEN: No. At that time. I mean, there's really not that much opportunity to go skiing. SPEAKER 1: How about the food? Did you miss that or did you still cook Finnish food over here? LAASANEN: I really didn't miss the Finnish food and I didn't have any difficulty getting used to the food in this country. SPEAKER 1: No? Do you tend to cook American food now even or Finnish food or a little of both? LAASANEN: Well, mostly, I mean. there really isn't anymore nowadays. I mean, it is the same. I mean, because we have some traditional Finnish foods that for instance, we cook, you know, at Christmas time. But other than that, I think it is pretty much the same. SPEAKER 1: Did you ever keep up any customs in this country that you have kept up at home or did you.? LAASANEN: Well, perhaps some followed some Finnish customs. For Christmastime, for instance, we follow some things. SPEAKER 1: What would be your typical Finnish Christmas? How much different is it than ours? LAASANEN: Well, I think that people perhaps they go more, that everything has to be clean for Christmas, do really a big house cleaning just before Christmas. And I think that Finnish people do a lot of baking, perhaps make like Finnish [unintelligible - 00:17:12] bread and perhaps some other Finnish dishes for Christmas. And then another thing, too, we open our Christmas presents on Christmas Eve. SPEAKER 1: Instead of Christmas day. 13 LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Do you have a Christmas tree and Santa Claus type things? LAASANEN: Well, when the children were small. SPEAKER 1: But still, it's a tradition? LAASANEN: Right. Yes. SPEAKER 1: Somebody delivering the presents. How about dances and things like that? Did you ever.? LAASANEN: Well, I didn't go to dances. SPEAKER 1: No? LAASANEN: No, I was a very quiet girl. SPEAKER 1: But they had dances though? LAASANEN: Oh, yes, very much so. SPEAKER 1: Did you ever get a chance to go out much, dating? Or were you shy? LAASANEN: I was a very shy girl. I didn't even look at the boys. SPEAKER 1: How did you meet your husband? LAASANEN: I met him at the camp. And I wasn't that young then anymore. SPEAKER 1: You must have naturally missed your relatives back home? LAASANEN: Very much. SPEAKER 1: So there was two other brothers and sisters plus your parents left in Finland? LAASANEN: Two sisters. SPEAKER 1: Two sisters? LAASANEN: Younger than I am. SPEAKER 1: Are they still there today? LAASANEN: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: And how about the rest of your brothers and sisters? Are they over here still? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Really? Okay. What were some of the things that you enjoyed most about your new life?14 LAASANEN: Well, I remember I enjoyed going in the nice department stores and the silent movies were just coming then in 1929. So, that was kind of great, to go to see the movies. And also, Sunday afternoon automobile rides. Because in those days, there weren't that many cars on the road so we really enjoyed. and I got to see some of the surrounding cities and towns. SPEAKER 1: Did they have cars in Finland when you left? LAASANEN: Well, not that many. Not in those days. SPEAKER 1: It would probably be expensive, too. LAASANEN: Yes. Of course, now, everything has changed. It's very much the same as it is in this country. SPEAKER 1: You said you went to night school for five years. Were you able to understand any of the local newspapers? Did you try to read like the Fitchburg papers? LAASANEN: Yes, I did with the help of Finnish-English teacher. I got busy right away learning to understand the whole [unintelligible - 00:19:31] and so on. [Unintelligible - 00:19:34] I had no difficulty. SPEAKER 1: Did you get any magazines or newspapers in Finnish to read, too? LAASANEN: Well, at that time in Fitchburg, two papers were published in the Finnish language. SPEAKER 1: So you got both of them? You could keep up with the news in Finland. LAASANEN: But I was so much interested just to learn English that I spent most of my time trying to study the. SPEAKER 1: English papers. LAASANEN: . English papers. SPEAKER 1: Oh, that's really good. You enjoyed school then? Did you? LAASANEN: Yes, very much. SPEAKER 1: Did you just take English courses or.? LAASANEN: Yes.15 SPEAKER 1: They were at night? LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: You did very well. All the people, they surprised me how much. because the tendency for Americans when they go to another people's country is to. it is very hard for Americans to learn another people's language, you know. Everybody always ends up speaking English to us and we never seem to be making the effort to speak Finnish or. LAASANEN: [Unintelligible - 00:20:33] it was more or less a must. SPEAKER 1: How about politics? Do you have any preference? LAASANEN: Yes. I have always been a Democrat. In my early youth, already I thought. I used to think that I belonged to the working class and to me it seems that the Democratic government does more for the working people than the Republican government. SPEAKER 1: What part have you taken in any politics, any active part? LAASANEN: No, no. I'm not interested in politics. SPEAKER 1: No, you just vote and things like that. Privileges. LAASANEN: Right. Yes, we do vote. Yes. I mean, I vote. SPEAKER 1: Did you keep up a correspondence back home, writing, things like that? LAASANEN: Yes, very much. And I still do. SPEAKER 1: Yeah? With all your friends, too? LAASANEN: And relatives. SPEAKER 1: And some relatives. You can call them up now on the phone though. Have you ever done that, tried that? LAASANEN: Not too many times. SPEAKER 1: I was wondering how it would be. Did you ever try to encourage any of your friends or relatives to come over? LAASANEN: No. SPEAKER 1: No? LAASANEN: No. 16 SPEAKER 1: Didn't you think maybe they would have a better chance here or maybe.? LAASANEN: Well, I always seem to think that the difficulty to learn a strange language is really something. Not too wonderful. SPEAKER 1: You figured maybe they had their own lives. LAASANEN: Right. And they are very happy and content. SPEAKER 1: Do you feel that life has worked out better for you here than it would have if you had stayed up. gone back to Finland? LAASANEN: There had been times I think that I have thought that way but then again, maybe at times perhaps it wouldn't have been better over there. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Anything in particular that makes you feel that way? LAASANEN: Well, perhaps I miss the lakes and the forests and I had more opportunity to go swimming and things like that. SPEAKER 1: It is nicer looking appearance wise but. is it a quieter life, do you think? Less busy? LAASANEN: I don't think the life is. Perhaps it is getting more so now but perhaps it wasn't that hectic. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, that's the one I was. I think it is pretty hectic over here. Before, you said your children might have had a better chance but like you said, things are changing in Finland. LAASANEN: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So they could possibly have gotten the education just as well. LAASANEN: Yes, nowadays. SPEAKER 1: And probably just have gotten the jobs just as easy. How about jobs over in Finland? Are they easy to get? LAASANEN: Well, I suppose it depends, I mean, on what you do. I am afraid that there are certain [procedures] over there as it is in this country. SPEAKER 1: Did you have any special plans that you made when you came to this country, set any like goals for yourself?17 LAASANEN: Well, not really. I think I was too young yet to really set out too many. SPEAKER 1: But you probably intended like to learn English and you did that. LAASANEN: Right. Yes. SPEAKER 1: Maybe to get married and have a family? LAASANEN: Well, I suppose. every young girl I suppose those thoughts do enter your mind. [Laughs] SPEAKER 1: What is the most important advantage that you feel you have as a citizen of this country? LAASANEN: Well, there have been times when I have had thoughts that it is, you know, to be an American citizen but the way things are now, I guess it is not that. it don't make that much difference. SPEAKER 1: No. Sometimes that is true. So there's nothing really. Do you feel that maybe you had more freedom here than in Finland or not? LAASANEN: No. No. SPEAKER 1: There is not that much difference? LAASANEN: No, no, not really. I mean, that is something I think we always had. People had to have their freedom. [Unintelligible - 00:24:31] countries. SPEAKER 1: Many times you hear people say how they long for the good old days, like these are the times during the Depression and things like that. When you think back, do you prefer the good old days or would you take the way things are now? LAASANEN: Well I think what you prefer in the good old days is that people perhaps they had less but I think they were more content and they led a more peaceful life. That can't be now. I think that pace is pretty fast and also more confusing. And I think people have drifted too far from the nature. People should have spent more time in the nature, what there is left and studied the wonders, what god created. SPEAKER 1: Thank you very much for helping me./AT/jf/kc/mb

Interview with Elsie Puputti of Fitchburg, Massachusetts. Topics include: Elsie Puputti was born in Finland, June 26, 1932. He father died when she was very young and her mother struggled to raise her and her siblings on their small farm. Memories of how poor the conditions were in Finland and what it was like during the war. Mrs Puputti's mother had been born in Fitchburg, Massachusetts and eventually was able to return with three of her daughters January 6, 1949. Arriving in New York harbor and her first memories of the U.S., how things compared to Finland. The help her aunt was to her family when they first arrived. She worked as a maid until she was married in 1951. She went to night school to learn more English. Going to church, social activities, and how she met her husband. Customs she missed from Finland and traditions she kept. How Mrs. Puputti started her store. Her children and their interests. How her life in the U.S. compares to what it would have been like in ; 1 INTERVIEWER: Mrs. Puputti, where were you born? MRS. PUPUTTI: I was born in Finland. INTERVIEWER: In what? MRS. PUPUTTI: [Unintelligible - 00:00:06]. INTERVIEWER: And when was that? MRS. PUPUTTI: 1932. INTERVIEWER: What month? MRS. PUPUTTI: June 26. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Could you briefly describe what your earlier years were like there, like what was your family like? MRS. PUPUTTI: Uh, well, we had a very small home. We were -- my father died when I was very young. I was only three years old. My mother took care of us, six of us. And everything was quite poor, I think. Very much, we didn't have very much of anything, you know? My mother was born here in Fitchburg. And after my father had died, she tried to struggle on. We had a little piece of land. And, and she wanted to -- she figured when we get a little bit older she wants to come back to Fitchburg, try to see if she can make a little better life for us here. INTERVIEWER: Did she, did you live on a farm, like? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Yeah? So she had to the farm work and all of you helped? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Small farm? MRS. PUPUTTI: Very small, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Uh, what kind of uh education did you or your brothers and sisters have? MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, we all went to like a grammar school or like [unintelligible - 00:01:22] that type of a school. INTERVIEWER: Mm-hmm. MRS. PUPUTTI: Then two years after that, that's how extensive my education.2 INTERVIEWER: Because after that you usually have to pay for your education, and a lot of people couldn't go then. So you can remember times were sort of poor or anything like that? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. We had sometimes very rough times. Most of the time we always had food, except right after my father died. That was the hardest time. But then after that we always managed to have food. And then we had relatives here. My aunts, they used to send us packages. In the wartime we could get clothes and things like that. To me, a lot of times we were almost better off than some of the other families [unintelligible - 00:02:12] they had bigger houses and more land. INTERVIEWER: You were happy as a child, I think? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. I can't remember being really miserable. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember any important events that happened? Like you said you were there during the war. Can you remember anything about the occupation and the revolutions? MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, where we lived, we weren't really touched that much, except that I remember when we did receive lot of… what do you call [unintelligible - 00:02:43] other people that move to our…? INTERVIEWER: Refugees? MRS. PUPUTTI: Refugees. Yeah. We took care of some of them and tried to get them housing and helping like that. I was… I can't remember. I must have been about -- I don't even know how old I was, maybe 12 years old. Could be that I'm wrong with my… INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Do you remember any bombings or anything like that? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, we didn't have bombings in where we lived. Not even close. We saw the planes go over, but that's all. INTERVIEWER: Why did you decide to come to this country? Or your mother made the decision, right? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. I was young. I was 16, 15, 16 years old. She just wanted to come here. We were young. Three girls, my oldest sister and my 3 younger sister. And she just decided to take us with her because we weren't married or anything. She wanted to, you know, keep us together. INTERVIEWER: So she left some of the children in Finland? MRS. PUPUTTI: She left two of the older girls. My brother died in the war. That was the one of the hardest part for me. He was my only brother. He died. But there was five girls, and two of them were married, so they stayed. INTERVIEWER: So this was something that your mother had planned for quite a while, right? She had always hoped that when she figured you were older to come over here? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: How did the others feel about the choice to come over here? Did your relatives say they thought it was a good idea, or did they tell you not to? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. Those days it was very hard to get here. That was 1949. Very few people got in. And I remember my mother got in the US because she was born here and she got her citizen papers back. And that was the only reason we were able to make it here. And like I said, we had waited for I think it was about two years for our papers to come through. So it is something that she -- remember, see, she was 13 years old when she left, so she remembers what it was like here. Because we were very, very excited. I was. My older sister wasn't. She had boyfriends, so I guess she wanted to stay. But I was very excited, and my younger sister was very excited. INTERVIEWER: When did you leave? Do you know what date it was? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. We came here January 6, 1949. So it took us about 11 days to… INTERVIEWER: Eleven days to -- and did you come over by boat? MRS. PUPUTTI: By boat, yeah. 4 INTERVIEWER: What was that like? MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, I was very sick. INTERVIEWER: Were most of the family sick? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. MRS. PUPUTTI: Very sick. But it was very exciting because I had never been in a huge ship. INTERVIEWER: Was it a nice boat? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Were you all crowded, or…? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, we had a nice room. We had… the name of the boat was Stockholm. That's a Swedish line. It's one of those big ocean liners. There isn't too many left like that. INTERVIEWER: So aside from being sick, it was a comfortable, pleasant ride. MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, yes. It was very nice. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember if it cost very much? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, I think my ticket was $120, because I remember my aunt had paid for it and, you know, here. And after I started working, that was the first thing I did was to pay my ticket. INTERVIEWER: So your relatives here in Fitchburg helped pay for all of you to come over [unintelligible - 00:06:26] because that would be difficult for your mother to raise that much money for all of you. Once you were on the way, did you have any second thoughts about coming, or were you just -- like you said, you were excited, really? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, we were very apprehensive. Very, very -- you know, looking forward and thinking about what it's gonna be like. INTERVIEWER: What place did you enter this country? Do you remember? MRS. PUPUTTI: New York. INTERVIEWER: Was it Ellis Island, or… MRS. PUPUTTI: No, not anymore.5 INTERVIEWER: Just New York harbor? MRS. PUPUTTI: Just like any other tourist. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember what the first thing was that you saw in this country? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. To me, the most striking thing was when I saw the Black people the first time. Then I see some nuns, and I had never seen that. That to me was -- you know, I keep my eye on them quite a while. Then I had picture of the city much different. I had thought it was so beautiful, but there's nothing that can describe. But then it was quite dirty, and I was disappointed, actually. But then… INTERVIEWER: The buildings were tall though. MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. That was something exciting, but… INTERVIEWER: And the Statue of Liberty, things like that. MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. But still, it was so different that it always stays in my mind. INTERVIEWER: So you felt a little disappointed but still happy? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, still very excited. INTERVIEWER: Was there any type of welcome for you? MRS. PUPUTTI: Nothing big. My aunt came to pick us up. We came from New York to Fitchburg in a bus. INTERVIEWER: Was that the first time you've ever been in a bus? MRS. PUPUTTI: No. INTERVIEWER: No. MRS. PUPUTTI: We had buses in Finland. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Was there any kind of confusion, like did you have a communication problem finding your aunt? MRS. PUPUTTI: No. INTERVIEWER: No, she was right there. MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Did you speak any English at all? MRS. PUPUTTI: No.6 INTERVIEWER: Or any of your family? MRS. PUPUTTI: No. My mother did, few words. She had… INTERVIEWER: She had spoken… MRS. PUPUTTI: But she had forgotten. INTERVIEWER: Forgotten? Yeah. Did you have to go through any formalities here, or were they in Finland that you had to…? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. Only that they'd check your papers. INTERVIEWER: No physicals? MRS. PUPUTTI: No. INTERVIEWER: At least in Finland you probably had to. MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, we had to go through all the -- we had to get the shots and everything. It was very, very strict. You had to get all kinds of papers. But here they just checked them and… INTERVIEWER: Did you notice any differences when you were traveling from New York to Fitchburg? Did you notice any differences compared to Finland? Like was the land flatter? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. Actually, the roads first, that was something that I had never seen, huge roads. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. MRS. PUPUTTI: Highways. And then the scenery, everything was so much cleaner. The woods are so thick with the underbrush. Things like that. We had clean woods. I mean, you can see. INTERVIEWER: Oh yeah, clear. MRS. PUPUTTI: And then the hills, we had no flat. INTERVIEWER: How about the climate? Did you notice any difference in the temperature? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, it's… INTERVIEWER: Well, you came in January, so it was pretty… MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, it was about the same. It was cold here as well. INTERVIEWER: Did you find any differences between like the winters in Finland and how it is around here? Some people say they're more 7 unpredictable. Like in Finland, you get constant snow, whereas here you can get a blizzard. MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, in Finland you never get two feet at one time. No. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. MRS. PUPUTTI: So that is different, and the air is dryer. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Did you meet any American people along the way, or mostly you were just traveling with your aunt? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. I can't remember. No. INTERVIEWER: Were you pretty much excited still, or were you disappointed at the changes in scenery? Was it still exciting? MRS. PUPUTTI: When we got here, it was very nice. Houses were so big, but not to me, because we're used to it now. But going along the Mechanic Street, and all that Elm Street, High Street apartments, there were these [unintelligible - 00:10:37] and things that look so, so different. I had never pictured nothing like that. INTERVIEWER: Were you disappointed, or you liked it? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, I think it was very unusual. Something about it, I can't put it into words, but it was exciting, somehow so different. INTERVIEWER: Did you and your mother and the other girls, did they stay with your aunt then? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, she had gotten us apartment already. We were our own family right away. INTERVIEWER: And did she get a job somewhere? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. We got jobs, all of us. My youngest sister, Lisa, went to school, but the others, we had to go to work. INTERVIEWER: What did your mother get for a job? MRS. PUPUTTI: We mostly did the housework [unintelligible - 00:11:18] but you have to do [unintelligible - 00:11:21] so did I. INTERVIEWER: Did you do housework for other people? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. INTERVIEWER: And your other sister too?8 MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. I was like a maid for [unintelligible - 00:11:30] different things until I got married and I quit. INTERVIEWER: When did you get married? MRS. PUPUTTI: Two years later, '51. I met my husband here. He had come from Finland too. INTERVIEWER: Did you ever get a chance to go back to school or to learn English in school? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, I did go to night school. That's how we [unintelligible - 00:11:50] learn to speak clearly. INTERVIEWER: Otherwise you picked it up? MRS. PUPUTTI: But then you just picked it up on the way. INTERVIEWER: I'm surprised how well the people do that I interviewed when they say they just had like a short time in night school and they just picked it up. It's hard to believe you can do so well. Did you look for a neighborhood that had mostly people of your own nationality, like Finnish people? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. That's not so much that we looked for it, just that… INTERVIEWER: They were all there. MRS. PUPUTTI: … they were right there. INTERVIEWER: Were they friendly? Were the neighbors friendly? MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, yes. We never had any problems with them. INTERVIEWER: Did it take much time for you to become involved in the church or social activities in this area? MRS. PUPUTTI: Not in the church. We were not immediately, because my mother is very religious and we all are. So we naturally started with the church that -- it was right in the neighborhood, too, the Messiah Lutheran Church. It's just been with us ever since. INTERVIEWER: So you got into church activities and events like that? How about social activities, like dances or picnics?9 MRS. PUPUTTI: A little bit. They used to have like a [unintelligible - 00:12:58] society. They used to have dances those days, but they don't have that much anymore, like [unintelligible - 00:13:02]. INTERVIEWER: Right. Did you use to go? MRS. PUPUTTI: It used to be a little bit [unintelligible - 00:13:08] like they had shows, we used to act and things like that. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. You took part in it? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, a little bit, but nothing too much. That was one thing that I was -- we were very, very lonesome Christian girls. Very lonesome. We missed our old friends and… INTERVIEWER: Boyfriends and things? Is that how you met your husband, through one of these? MRS. PUPUTTI: No. It was quite interesting. I had met one older gentleman here in evening classes in high school, and he used to tell me about this very interesting boy he used to know and he used to live with in Sweden. And he says if he ever gets here, I would very much like you two to meet. So when my husband came here, first time this gentleman introduced us. And actually, he brought him to my home. That's where I met him very first time, in my own home. So somehow I just end up right away. He was so different, so refreshing coming from [unintelligible - 00:14:12]. INTERVIEWER: Must have been nice he could tell you about [unintelligible - 00:14:15]. What were some of the things that you missed most about Finland, like food or any customs? Did your mother still cook Finnish food? MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, yeah. Yes. It's not so much that I -- I don't know if I missed anything like that so much, any of the foods or customs or anything like that, just that there's a certain kind of atmosphere, a certain kind of feeling for everybody where they have been or something long years, but not any particular thing.10 INTERVIEWER: Just miss the whole thing. Yeah. Did you keep up any customs? Did your mother practice customs? MRS. PUPUTTI: I suppose so, if you really start to think about it. Like Christmastime, we always had the kinkkus. INTERVIEWER: What's that? MRS. PUPUTTI: That's pork. Fresh pork we cook, [unintelligible - 00:15:14] fish and things like that. INTERVIEWER: You still kept that? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah, we still keep that up. Easter time we used to have special foods we're used to making. Not so much anymore. INTERVIEWER: How about holidays? Did you still have any? [Unintelligible - 00:15:26] maybe all the Finnish people practiced holidays? Could you ever get hold of anything like Finnish books, things like that? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes, we did. Let's see. Oh, I suppose [unintelligible - 00:15:43] well, I have to think of it. I can't remember. INTERVIEWER: You could still read Finnish books? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. But I can't remember how we got them, but I know there was some. INTERVIEWER: Okay. What were some of things you enjoyed most about your new life? Anything special? Any more conveniences or better pay? MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, yeah. The food was so nice. That was one thing that was very good. And then the cars, you know, started coming out that we had never had a chance to drive like we did here. Well, everything was faster and a bigger scale than what I was used to. INTERVIEWER: Did you like that? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. Yes, it's something that we'd pursue. Let me think. What would be some other things that would be nice? INTERVIEWER: Would you have had a chance to have your own shop? How did you get involved in this?11 MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, I know I wouldn't have had the chance to have this own shop like this that I have here. Well, see, one thing though Finland's been always very up to date on fashion, and the quality is superb. My brother-in-law in Finland has a big clothing store, and we used to get these for Christmas and we used to visit them. Like in 1969, the whole family, we went over, and just to see that store. It just inspired me to think that, "Why couldn't we have something like that in Fitchburg with all the Finnish people here?" So it would really be something special for them. So I had dreamed about it, but I didn't really think that I'll ever do it. But then one time a couple years ago, after I was talking with my sister, she got so excited that, "Go ahead, do it," that I go to my brother-in-law and see what he thinks if he could give me the factories and people to send me some things, you know. It's hard for you to get started and then you still have some factories send you some things and they don't know anything about you. But he was good help with me that way that he got them to send me some things, and then that's how it started. It's two years now and they keep sending us. And it's so nice because it's so different. Everything is so well-made. People seem to like -- like I said, steady customers. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. MRS. PUPUTTI: Continual. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I meant to ask you, did you ever have any children after you got married? MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, yeah. I have a daughter and a son. Daughter is 20 and my son is 18. INTERVIEWER: What do they do? MRS. PUPUTTI: She sells right here. She is going to Graham Junior College for this retailing and merchandising, and the boy is going to Worcester Tech. My husband has a small machine shop, so we have two small businesses in Fitchburg.12 INTERVIEWER: Cool. MRS. PUPUTTI: Our son is interested in that life. He wants to be engineer. INTERVIEWER: Keep in the family. MRS. PUPUTTI: It's not that we push him, but it's what he enjoys. INTERVIEWER: No, it's his choice. Were you able to understand the local newspapers and magazines and radio and things like that? MRS. PUPUTTI: First, right away when we came, there was a Finnish program on the air that time. And actually, we were interviewed. INTERVIEWER: Oh, yeah? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. Because it was so unusual for new people to come, immigrants to come from Finland at that time. And there was [unintelligible - 00:19:48] the Finnish newspaper we used to read… INTERVIEWER: So you could keep up with the news? MRS. PUPUTTI: [Unintelligible - 00:19:52] anymore after you get used to the English one. And things like that. And we used to -- like in the church we could hear Finnish language all these years. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. MRS. PUPUTTI: We still have Finnish services. INTERVIEWER: So do you speak at home? MRS. PUPUTTI: Not anymore. INTERVIEWER: Do you speak it with your husband, possibly? MRS. PUPUTTI: No. INTERVIEWER: No. MRS. PUPUTTI: Very seldom anymore. It's not that we don't want to. It's just INTERVIEWER: It's that you're so used to… MRS. PUPUTTI: … that we're so used to. And I remember first we wanted to learn English, so we purposely said that we're not going to speak in Finnish so we could learn it, and then it became a habit. INTERVIEWER: So the children never picked up Finnish? MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, they did.13 INTERVIEWER: Oh, they did? MRS. PUPUTTI: They did. And they still understand almost all of it. And they can even speak quite a bit. INTERVIEWER: That's good. I think it's good to keep it in the family if you can. How about political preference? Do you have any, and how'd you choose? MRS. PUPUTTI: I'm strictly independent. I used to vote when I feel the man deserves it. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Okay. Did you ever take any active parts? Did you ever campaign for anybody? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, not really. INTERVIEWER: After you had lived here for a while, do you ever write back to people in Finland and tell them to come over, encourage them? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes. As a matter of fact, I did. Nine years ago I got my sister's family here. I was responsible for it. It was eight people. That was one of the biggest families that had come from all time. And they were interviewed on the boat, and they was taking pictures and everything because it was unusual. Large families like that doesn't usually get up all and just leave. INTERVIEWER: Did they stay in Fitchburg? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes, they're still here. INTERVIEWER: They enjoyed it? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yeah. The oldest boy went through air course, and he's living in Alaska now. INTERVIEWER: Oh. So they're happy that you gave them that advice? Would you ever consider going back to Finland to live? MRS. PUPUTTI: No, I don't think so. I love to go there, you know, and stay for a while. Unless when I'm really old, I don't know. INTERVIEWER: After you retire or something?14 MRS. PUPUTTI: See, we feel it's home here in Fitchburg. We have a home in Rindge Road, and we've been there for 15 years. The children were born there. It would be too hard now to… INTERVIEWER: This is where your roots are now. Yeah. MRS. PUPUTTI: … cut everything and… INTERVIEWER: You have gone back to Finland though? MRS. PUPUTTI: We have, yes. INTERVIEWER: How many times? MRS. PUPUTTI: Quite a few times. First time we went 1969, then I've gone twice after that. INTERVIEWER: Did you notice the changes that are happening over there? MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh, yes. And we do have to say that Finland goes much faster than we do here in Fitchburg, much faster. INTERVIEWER: They caught up to United States standards and all. MRS. PUPUTTI: Oh yes. And the housing and everything is -- they are building much more than we are here, much more. INTERVIEWER: Do you feel that generally life has worked out better for you here than it would have in Finland? MRS. PUPUTTI: Yes, I really think so. I feel maybe -- like I said, my husband and I, we took the chances on business here. I feel a lot American people, they probably wouldn't have dared to try to do what we do. But because we came here, we didn't have anything… INTERVIEWER: You couldn't lose anything. MRS. PUPUTTI: So we feel that even if we have something little bit now, we came with nothing. That's what my husband says, he came with $20, and if he leaves with $20 that's fine. INTERVIEWER: Wow. Do you feel your children have a better chance in this country than they would've in Finland? Or do you think now it's different, maybe?15 MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, they probably do. But right now over there if you're ambitious you can go almost as far over there as you can here. I feel that in our case it was better here. INTERVIEWER: Of any plans that you made when you came here, is there any you haven't achieved yet that you regret? Or have you really accomplished more than you probably ever expected? MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, see, I never thought of going into business while I was at home and taking care of the children when they were smaller. So to me, this is something that I didn't even think of doing until the last minute. I think I've done better than I've really expected. INTERVIEWER: That's good. What is the most important advantage you feel that you have as a citizen of this country? MRS. PUPUTTI: Well, even things are much rougher now here than they were when I first came. I remember how we used to keep the doors open, now we have to lock everything up. All that was much nicer then, but I still think that Americans have more freedom than any other country in the whole world. Even if Finland is free, but there's still some certain logical things about -- well, I suppose from Russia because they're so close. I feel that people don't appreciate that feeling; they abuse it. That makes me awful upset sometimes, you know. They should go someplace to live where, really, you can't speak that clear. Yeah, you cannot blast the president in any place. You can't really do that. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, that's true. Many times you hear people say they long for the good old days. When you think back at what the good old days was supposed to be for you, which would you rather have, the good old days or now? MRS. PUPUTTI: I think I'd rather have now. I think it's a saying, "the good old days." I can't say that I have anything in -- my life was anything so terrible that I want to take back. But I still like the present. I still feel that we're going ahead. It doesn't mean that I value the 16 money or want to be something rich or something like that so much. It's just that unless you can pay your bills and be comfortable and happy in your everyday life, that's the [unintelligible - 00:26:02]. INTERVIEWER: So you feel you've lived a good life? MRS. PUPUTTI: I think so. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Thank you./AT/jf/ah/es

Interview with Maria Moreira of Ficthburg, Massachusetts. Topics include: Maria Moreira was born in Saint Michael, Azores in 1917 and came to Fitchburg, MA in 1951. She moved because her husband was born in the U.S. and wanted to move back. Her impressions of the U.S. before and after moving. How difficult life was in the Azores. The different places she lived in Fitchburg. The different types of work her husband did. How she became an American citizen and learned English. Her difficulty with working but she never felt discriminated against. How she spent her time in St. Michael compared with Fitchburg. Getting used to American food and grocery shopping. Her children and their professions and their children. Her impressions of Fitchburg and how she likes living there. ; 1 WAYNE LUCIER: November 18, 1973, interview conducted by Wayne Lucier. Place of interview: Mrs. Moreira's home. Your name please? MARIA MOREIRA: Maria Moreira. WAYNE LUCIER: And your nationality? MARIA MOREIRA: Portuguese. WAYNE LUCIER: And your date of birth? MARIA MOREIRA: December 17 – no December 26, 1917. WAYNE LUCIER: And this makes you how many years old? MARIA MOREIRA: Makes me 55. WAYNE LUCIER: And what generation are you? MARIA MOREIRA: First. WAYNE LUCIER: And your address? MARIA MOREIRA: 208 Westminster Hill. WAYNE LUCIER: And your phone number? MARIA MOREIRA: 26413. WAYNE LUCIER: And where were you born? MARIA MOREIRA: I was born in Saint Michael, Azores. WAYNE LUCIER: Any certain part? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, [unintelligible - 00:01:00]. WAYNE LUCIER: And when did you come to the United States? MARIA MOREIRA: I came in April 7, 1951. WAYNE LUCIER: And how about Fitchburg? Did you come directly to Fitchburg? MARIA MOREIRA: Yes. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And where you were born, did you move around a lot? MARIA MOREIRA: No. I just moved, I just married and lived in one house. WAYNE LUCIER: And where you were born, you lived there till you got married? MARIA MOREIRA: Yes. WAYNE LUCIER: And from there, have you moved a lot? MARIA MOREIRA: My own house. My husband bought a house and we lived here. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And why did you leave the Old Country? MARIA MOREIRA: I didn't hear.2 WAYNE LUCIER: Why did you leave there? MARIA MOREIRA: I leave there because my husband wants to come here. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you want to come? MARIA MOREIRA: [Unintelligible - 00:01:56]. WAYNE LUCIER: And how did you come to the United States: by boat or…? MARIA MOREIRA: Airplane. WAYNE LUCIER: Were you on an airplane before? MARIA MOREIRA: No. WAYNE LUCIER: You liked going on an airplane? MARIA MOREIRA: Not really. WAYNE LUCIER: Have you traveled on an airplane since then? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, one more time. WAYNE LUCIER: You find it a better thing? MARIA MOREIRA: No, it's been [unintelligible - 00:02:23]. WAYNE LUCIER: And why did you come to the United States? MARIA MOREIRA: I came with him because he was American-born and [unintelligible - 00:02:39] us. He said, 'I like that we move there to the United States.' When I left, I didn't [unintelligible - 00:02:44] I like very much. I didn't want to go back. I didn't want to go back to [unintelligible - 00:02:47]. WAYNE LUCIER: Was it a hard life there? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, hard work, hard work. Everything was hard. WAYNE LUCIER: You worked any type of job? MARIA MOREIRA: No, just housework. Just cook our food, make our own bread, and take care of the animals outside. WAYNE LUCIER: What type of animals did you have? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh we have pigs, chickens and. WAYNE LUCIER: So it was a farm, right? MARIA MOREIRA: A farm. Yeah. WAYNE LUCIER: What did your mother and father do?3 MARIA MOREIRA: My father was a farmer too and my, mother was a housewife [unintelligible - 00:03:25]. WAYNE LUCIER: Why did you come to Fitchburg? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh my husband, he had two sisters here. That's why we came here, [unintelligible - 00:03:40] then. WAYNE LUCIER: What did you think about the United States before you came here? MARIA MOREIRA: Before I [unintelligible - 00:03:49] I just see pictures of it so. WAYNE LUCIER: And how about afterwards? MARIA MOREIRA: When I went to Boston, I see everything different between this country and Azores. I liked the type of life; people live here much better. WAYNE LUCIER: It was a lot different though from what you thought? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh yeah. WAYNE LUCIER: For the better or worse? MARIA MOREIRA: Just a big difference in [unintelligible - 00:04:17] the way the people dress and [unintelligible - 00:04:21]. WAYNE LUCIER: Where did you live in Fitchburg? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh the first we lived in Allen's Place, then we moved… WAYNE LUCIER: Were you still a housewife then or…? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah. I didn't work for years. I was looking for a job but I didn't learn the language so I couldn't find a job. WAYNE LUCIER: And your husband, he spoke English? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah. He was – found a job. WAYNE LUCIER: Did he help you learn English? MARIA MOREIRA: No. He helped me a little bit but I learned more from the children and people like [unintelligible - 00:05:03]. WAYNE LUCIER: You said you lived on Allen Place, right? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, two months. We moved to Villa Street. WAYNE LUCIER: And from there?4 MARIA MOREIRA: From there we moved to Leighton St. But after that, we buy apartment house. We lived there for about six years. Then we moved to Westminster Road, single home. WAYNE LUCIER: And did you live with Portuguese people this time? MARIA MOREIRA: No, I lived in my mother-in-law [unintelligible - 00:05:37]. She lived with us when we buy the house. WAYNE LUCIER: What sort of jobs, what's your job now- your present job? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, my present job is Fitchburg [unintelligible - 00:05:50]. WAYNE LUCIER: And that's where? MARIA MOREIRA: [Unintelligible - 00:00:06] company. WAYNE LUCIER: And how about, let's say when you first came over here, what type of jobs did you have then? MARIA MOREIRA: When I came over? WAYNE LUCIER: When you came here. MARIA MOREIRA: This is my first job. I never had any other job. [Unintelligible - 00:06:05] I find a job. WAYNE LUCIER: And what type of work did your husband do? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh he was [unintelligible - 00:06:18]. He was making some keys and locks, all kinds of stuff and certain works [unintelligible - 00:06:26]. WAYNE LUCIER: How about when you first met him, what type of jobs did he do then? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh he was a farmer there. He was a farmer. He was young, and after that he came to the United States because he was American-born. He went to California for about four years. WAYNE LUCIER: When he went to California, he was married? MARIA MOREIRA: No, he was single. After that he went back and he married me. He stayed there for about three years. After that, he…just the wartime, we have to come here. Otherwise, we have to [unintelligible - 00:07:05]. WAYNE LUCIER: He didn't want to go?5 MARIA MOREIRA: No, [unintelligible - 00:07:07]. He'd rather be here. WAYNE LUCIER: At this time did you know where were they fighting the war? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh this is fighting to Japan… all the 1940 war. WAYNE LUCIER: So he just didn't want to go there? MARIA MOREIRA: He didn't want to go over there. There was no war in Portuguese but you have to be enlisted. WAYNE LUCIER: Oh. Did you belong to any clubs? MARIA MOREIRA: No. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. What sort of education did you have? MARIA MOREIRA: [Unintelligible - 00:07:42]. WAYNE LUCIER: And do you remember the name of the school? MARIA MOREIRA: No, just about it. WAYNE LUCIER: What type of school was it? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh it was just like first grade to the fifth grade. They teach everything. You know writing, reading, [unintelligible - 00:08:00] everything. WAYNE LUCIER: Was it hard? MARIA MOREIRA: It was hard because we have to learn everything at once. WAYNE LUCIER: Would you prefer, you know, your family to go to school there or in the United States? If you had your choice, let's say you could send them to school in Portugal or the United States, where you want to send them? MARIA MOREIRA: I like the type of education [unintelligible - 00:08:22] for the children. They stay longer in school. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you have any other education like night school? MARIA MOREIRA: I went to two years in night school. WAYNE LUCIER: For what? MARIA MOREIRA: To learn how to be an American citizen – to learn English really. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And when did you become a citizen? MARIA MOREIRA: I became a citizen on November 6, 1964. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And was it hard for you to change…? 6 MARIA MOREIRA: No, [unintelligible - 00:09:04]. WAYNE LUCIER: Are you Republican or Democrat? MARIA MOREIRA: I'm Independent. I just switched to [unintelligible - 00:09:19]. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And have you ever become involved working for a candidate? MARIA MOREIRA: No. WAYNE LUCIER: How about the state government, what do you think about it? Is it useful or is it…? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, they try to do the best they can [unintelligible - 00:09:37] mistake. WAYNE LUCIER: Have they ever, you know, helped you? MARIA MOREIRA: I have no problem, you know. I have my job all the time, [unintelligible - 00:09:46] system or anything. WAYNE LUCIER: How about the city government? Has you ever been affected by it? MARIA MOREIRA: All these years we live here, we… they fixed our road lately. They fixed [unintelligible - 00:10:05]. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you have to… MARIA MOREIRA: [Unintelligible - 00:10:09]. They made that twice [unintelligible - 00:10:16] fixed. WAYNE LUCIER: And that's the only way you could have anything done? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, they did it because of [unintelligible - 00:10:20]. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you ever have any language barriers because of your language? Did you have a hard time? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, at the beginning. I still do; I mean I don't speak English very well. WAYNE LUCIER: How about at home right now? Do you speak English or do you speak Portuguese? MARIA MOREIRA: I could speak English if I want to but I still speak Portuguese. WAYNE LUCIER: Which one do you prefer to speak at home? MARIA MOREIRA: It don't make a difference to me. 7 WAYNE LUCIER: How about when you first came over here, which language did you speak? You know, did you try to speak English? Did everybody try to get to know it? MARIA MOREIRA: Oh, yeah, I tried very hard to speak because at the work nobody would speak my language. I had a hard time. WAYNE LUCIER: Have you ever been discriminated against in the job because of your language? MARIA MOREIRA: No. No. No. WAYNE LUCIER: Never? MARIA MOREIRA: No. WAYNE LUCIER: How about when you went out searching for a house to live in? MARIA MOREIRA: No, we had no problem. WAYNE LUCIER: Do you think Fitchburg has good job opportunities? Do they have enough work for everyone? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, I think so, [unintelligible - 00:11:27] study and other peoples. WAYNE LUCIER: Over in-, what's the city, St Michaels, right? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. How was your spare time spent? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, over there my spare time was just do the housework and [unintelligible - 00:11:51] help my mother and [regard] my brothers… WAYNE LUCIER: Was there any real spare time? Do you know what I mean? MARIA MOREIRA: No. I didn't go to many places. Some days, you know, we just had a feast sometimes. WAYNE LUCIER: How about right now? How do you spend your spare time away from work? MARIA MOREIRA: At home or at my brother's house or go to the show – not too many [unintelligible - 00:12:16] not too much. WAYNE LUCIER: Do you think when you first came over here that the city of Fitchburg had recreational things for your children to do, you 8 know, like go ice skating or something like that? Did they have anything for them to do? MARIA MOREIRA: That time I don't miss those things at that point. Over here, it don't make any difference there or not, I mean, not too much. WAYNE LUCIER: So how about right now, do you think Fitchburg has you know…? MARIA MOREIRA: We have more. Yeah, we have more places for the children to have a good time. WAYNE LUCIER: What certain types of foods do you enjoy? MARIA MOREIRA: I like Portuguese food, most of it, but I like some American food. WAYNE LUCIER: When you came over, did you have a hard time preparing American foods or…? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, I had a hard time to getting [accustomed], to getting used to American food. WAYNE LUCIER: Did your family enjoy it, the American food? MARIA MOREIRA: No, at the beginning, no, because they had [unintelligible - 00:13:19]. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you find it a hard thing to go shopping? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, yeah, because of my language, the language. WAYNE LUCIER: Let's say that you go into an American grocery store; did you find it a hard thing to go in and buy stuff? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, the grocery store, no, it's not because you got everything on the shelf. But like the department store, I have a hard time because I didn't know the sizes. They ask me questions or help you with [unintelligible - 00:13:54]. WAYNE LUCIER: And what are your children, what are their names and what are their jobs? MARIA MOREIRA: My oldest one, her name is Anna. She's a hard worker… WAYNE LUCIER: What's the name Anna? MARIA MOREIRA: [Unintelligible - 00:14:10]. She's a housewife. She got three children. She went to high school. WAYNE LUCIER: And her husband, what's his job?9 MARIA MOREIRA: He's working in a sports shop. He's an [appraiser]. WAYNE LUCIER: Is this local or…? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah. WAYNE LUCIER: Where does he work? MARIA MOREIRA: He's working at a sports shop in the [unintelligible - 00:14:45]. WAYNE LUCIER: And do you have any other? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, I have two other daughters. The other one's name is M. Dorothy. WAYNE LUCIER: And what does she do? MARIA MOREIRA: She's a secretary. WAYNE LUCIER: And are there any other family members? MARIA MOREIRA: I have another one, the youngest one. Her name is Louisa. She's a school teacher. She's teaching [unintelligible - 00:15:26]. WAYNE LUCIER: And how about, do you have any grandchildren? MARIA MOREIRA: I have three grandchildren. WAYNE LUCIER: And do they go to school or…? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, the oldest one go to school and the middle one. The other one's been going to the… WAYNE LUCIER: Do you belong to any church? MARIA MOREIRA: Yes, [unintelligible - 00:15:47] Church. WAYNE LUCIER: Was your husband a veteran? MARIA MOREIRA: No. WAYNE LUCIER: He never participated in any service in Portugal? MARIA MOREIRA: No. WAYNE LUCIER: Do you have any customs right now? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah. I got Portuguese [feasts]. I like to go [unintelligible - 00:16:14]. WAYNE LUCIER: What are your finest memories, your own personal memories? MARIA MOREIRA: Well, I remember only when I was young. Other things we did when we were growing up, especially [unintelligible - 00:16:35] and work in the farm.10 WAYNE LUCIER: How about in Fitchburg, what did you like about Fitchburg? What do you like about Fitchburg? MARIA MOREIRA: Most of them, you know, I like my job here. And I have everything I need, stores, and [unintelligible - 00:17:58]. WAYNE LUCIER: Is there anything that you'd like to forget about Fitchburg? MARIA MOREIRA: No. This is my first place when I came to the United States and I like to live here. WAYNE LUCIER: And when you came to the United States, did you want to stay here? MARIA MOREIRA: Yeah, I was just feeling this is my home. WAYNE LUCIER: And how about Fitchburg? When you came to Fitchburg, did you think that you would stay here? MARIA MOREIRA: That time maybe not, but really I don't like to [leave]. Any place else as far as I know, as long as I know, I want it here. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And finally did you want to go back? MARIA MOREIRA: To Azores? WAYNE LUCIER: Yeah. MARIA MOREIRA: No. I went to visit once. WAYNE LUCIER: So you wouldn't like to go to live there? MARIA MOREIRA: To live there, no. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. Thank you./AT/jf/ah/ee

Interview with Hazel Lucier of Fitchburg, Massachusetts. Topics include: She is second generation in the U.S. and her father was from Madeira, Portugal. How she liked Fitchburg when she first moved there. The work she did. Her education. Speaking English and how she never felt discriminated against. How she spends her leisure time. Her children and their education. Her fondest memories. ; 1 WAYNE LUCIER: October 22, 1973. Interview conducted by Wayne Lucier. Place of interview, Mrs. Lucier's home. Your name, please. HAZEL LUCIER: Hazel Lucier. WAYNE LUCIER: Your nationality? HAZEL LUCIER: Portuguese. WAYNE LUCIER: Your age? HAZEL LUCIER: Forty-three. WAYNE LUCIER: What generation are you? HAZEL LUCIER: Second generation. WAYNE LUCIER: And your address? Address? HAZEL LUCIER: 36 [Martel]. WAYNE LUCIER: What's your phone number, please? HAZEL LUCIER: It's 342-7223. WAYNE LUCIER: Where were you born? HAZEL LUCIER: Goodyear, Connecticut. WAYNE LUCIER: And in what date? HAZEL LUCIER: April 13, 1930. WAYNE LUCIER: What's your date of arrival in Fitchburg? HAZEL LUCIER: July 1940. WAYNE LUCIER: And… did you always live in Goodyear before you came to Fitchburg, or…? HAZEL LUCIER: No. I lived in Bedford, Massachusetts, till I was 10 years old. WAYNE LUCIER: Okay. And why did you come to Fitchburg? HAZEL LUCIER: Because at the time there was no work for my mother and father and they have to come where there were wood mills. WAYNE LUCIER: And what were your impressions of Fitchburg before you came? What were your impressions after? HAZEL LUCIER: Before I came, I never knew because I've never been here before. I found it very hilly, people very friendly, and there was quite a bit of work for anyone who wanted to work. WAYNE LUCIER: Where did you live in Fitchburg?2 HAZEL LUCIER: First we lived on Daniels Street and we moved up on Federal Street and later back on Daniels Street, up to our present home on Martel Street. WAYNE LUCIER: And do you live with your own ethnic group? HAZEL LUCIER: No, there wasn't any other Portuguese people at the time living here. WAYNE LUCIER: What's your occupation? HAZEL LUCIER: Housewife. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you have any other jobs? HAZEL LUCIER: I did cashiering, worked in plastic shops, besides raising a family. WAYNE LUCIER: Did you belong to any clubs? HAZEL LUCIER: No. WAYNE LUCIER: What type of education do you have? HAZEL LUCIER: Grammar school and high school. WAYNE LUCIER: Where did you go to grammar school? HAZEL LUCIER: At Clarendon Street School here in Fitchburg, and then later on [unintelligible - 00:02:54] Fitchburg High. WAYNE LUCIER: Are you a citizen? HAZEL LUCIER: Yes. WAYNE LUCIER: Was it difficult for you to obtain citizenship? HAZEL LUCIER: No. WAYNE LUCIER: Are you Republican or Democrat? HAZEL LUCIER: Democrat. WAYNE LUCIER: How did you become involved in the political party? HAZEL LUCIER: Well, I think once you're brought up along those lines, you just more or less follow the lines of your -- you inherit the lines of your -- the generation before you and you just follow along the lines if you're satisfied with how it's been going. WAYNE LUCIER: So you've always voted Democratic? HAZEL LUCIER: Right. WAYNE LUCIER: What are your feelings about the state government?3 HAZEL LUCIER: I'm not really involved. I just go along with whatever is going on. WAYNE LUCIER: Has the local government been involved in your life, the local government of the city of Fitchburg? HAZEL LUCIER: Well, I get involved with the voting [unintelligible - 00:04:00] that's as far as – the extent of my political interest. WAYNE LUCIER: Have you ever experienced any language barriers or problems? HAZEL LUCIER: Not really. WAYNE LUCIER: Was English spoken in your home? HAZEL LUCIER: No, it wasn't, but, well, there were no other people of our nationality here at the time. We had to more or less speak English, which we did pick up as soon as we went to grammar school. We spoke both languages. WAYNE LUCIER: How about discrimination in your job, housing or social life? HAZEL LUCIER: No. WAYNE LUCIER: Never experienced any? HAZEL LUCIER: No. WAYNE LUCIER: Did Fitchburg provide decent job opportunities? HAZEL LUCIER: Oh, yes. WAYNE LUCIER: How is your leisurely time spent? HAZEL LUCIER: I like to watch television and I crochet a little bit, read whenever I can. With four children, there wasn't too much time for leisure activities. WAYNE LUCIER: How is your weekly time spent before when you were younger? HAZEL LUCIER: Oh, I go to movies, and read, and roller skate a little bit, involved in sports, ice skate. WAYNE LUCIER: Did Fitchburg provide any recreational activities? HAZEL LUCIER: Oh, yes. We had a rink with [unintelligible - 00:05:25]. Of course, we could always go to [unintelligible - 00:05:27] when we have the opportunity to go, and that kept us happy. WAYNE LUCIER: Where were mother and father born?4 HAZEL LUCIER: My mother was born in Bedford, Massachusetts, and my father was born in Madeira, Portugal. WAYNE LUCIER: What are the names of your children? What do they do and what are their education? HAZEL LUCIER: I have four children. Wayne is my oldest. He's 21 and he's a senior at Fitchburg State. He plans on becoming a teacher. And there's Kevin. Kevin is 18, graduated from Fitchburg High School in June, and he's taking up -- being an apprentice nutrition. Then there's Susan. She is 14, a freshman at Memorial Junior High, business course. And then I have Sandra, who is 13, in the eighth grade at Memorial. WAYNE LUCIER: Is your husband a veteran? HAZEL LUCIER: No, he isn't. WAYNE LUCIER: Has the practice of your customs gradually decreased? HAZEL LUCIER: Not really, because when we get together, we -- around the holidays and so forth, we kind of always bring up cousins that we been brought up to, you know, when we were children. WAYNE LUCIER: What are your fondest memories? HAZEL LUCIER: Well, growing up, we had quite a bit of fun. It's quite a nice place to live in. There was always one more or less type of activity to get involved with. And I consider myself having a nice, happy childhood, normal childhood. WAYNE LUCIER: What are your fondest memories of Fitchburg? HAZEL LUCIER: Going to school here, getting married here and raising my family, giving them an opportunity to better themselves. It's a big advantage living in Fitchburg with all the opportunities offered here. WAYNE LUCIER: Are there any memories that you'd like to forget or…? HAZEL LUCIER: Not really. Just personal tragedies and the like, but that comes from living anyway. That's just part of living. Doesn't make any difference where you are.5 WAYNE LUCIER: Do you intend to stay when you came to Fitchburg? HAZEL LUCIER: I really didn't know one way or the other because, at the time, my parents had just started work and they just wanted to make a living and this is where it was. WAYNE LUCIER: Lastly, would you like to leave Fitchburg? HAZEL LUCIER: Not really. I'm very happy here. I like the [unintelligible - 00:08:26]. WAYNE LUCIER: Thank you./AT/jf/bf/ee