Oral history interview with Nate L. Palmer, 2013
Transcript of an oral history interview with Leonard "Nate" Palmer, conducted by Jennifer Payne at Norwich University in Northfield, Vermont, on 13 September 2013, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Nate Palmer graduated from Norwich University in 1963, served in the U.S. Army, and eventually bought into his family's business, John Palmer Moving & Storage, Inc. The bulk of his interview focuses on his experiences as a student at Norwich University and his service in the Army. ; Nate L. Palmer Oral History Interview Interview Date: 09/13/2013 Interview Location: Sullivan Museum & History Center, Norwich University Interviewed by Jennifer K. Payne Transcribed by Thomas H. King III JENNIFER PAYNE: This is Jennifer Payne. Today's date is Friday the 13th of September 2013. I'm at Sullivan Museum and History Center at Norwich University and I'm interviewing Nate Palmer. Nate. NATE PLAMER:: Hi Jennifer, my name is Lenard Nathan Palmer. I was born in Concord Massachusetts in 1941 that puts me a 71 years old, almost 72. I went to Norwich from '59 to '63, graduated in '63 and everybody called me Nate or my real close friends called me pig and that came, that name came because you could see all the meals we had looking at my shirt (Laughing). So that's, my roommates called me pig (laughing). I came to Norwich because I applied to two colleges and UMass at Amherst and Norwich and I'd gone to UMass Amherst for a football camp when I was a junior. I just thought it was too big. I'd never been to Norwich but some of my guys in high school come to Norwich, so I says well I'll go up there. So I'd never been here and came up here (Laughing). My major was, I started as, signed up for business when I came, because my math was, I was a terrible student in high school but then my junior and senior year, in the summer I worked at a construction job and that was the hardest thing I ever did. I was what, 16 and 17 and I was working alongside union laborers and they expected me to do the exact same thing that they did and I had all the worst jobs, sweeping streets, everything. So it was an engineering job so I said, well I'll change my major and be an engineer. So I was a civil engineer when I was, when I came here. Not very good, but I made it. I think my biggest accomplishment here was I graduated in four years. I thought that was, for all the trouble I had been up here, graduating in four years was just great. My roommates, freshman year I had Ed Parady, he's from Glens Falls, New York. Still stay in touch with him. Sophomore year I had Paul Mouris and Joe Valente, there were three of us in a corner room. Junior year I had Jack O'Neil, Jack and I still just great friends, we got in more trouble and then senior year I finally grew up and I had John, Larry Dunn. Larry's a doctor now and I think Larry was probably one of the reasons I didn't get kicked out, out of school when they had the panty raid because I had learned my lesson (Laughs). Let me see, we had no fraternities. I think ours was either the fir-, I think ours was the first year that we came and we had no fraternities. So we had class clubs and I think the class clubs was the best thing that ever happened to our class because, I think the fraternities, the classes went in different directions. You had all your friends, freshman, sophomores, juniors, and seniors and so you became friends with your fraternity brothers. We couldn't talk to the seniors, we couldn't talk to upperclassmen. So we'd go down to the class club and all our fr-, ya know, freshmen were all there together. So we knew each other and we stuck pretty close together and it was sort of like being in the Marine Corps when you're, ya know a recruit and you sort of stick together because you got those other guys always after ya. Is this ok? JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah, this, you're fine. NATE PLAMER: I played football, was the only sport I played. I played junior and senior year. I'd played football since I'd been 12 years old. 10 or 12. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow NATE PLAMER: And but when I came to college I thought that I had to study and, ya know football was just too hard to, ya know try to do that. But I sat in the stands my freshman and sophomore year almost killed me. I, first time I'd ever watched a football game. Ya know I'd always been down in the, ya know playing in or sitting on the bench, and it almost killed me. So I went out for football spring my sophomore year and I really enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun playing, I liked to play, I like to play football. JENNIFER PAYNE: What position? NATE PLAMER: I was a halfback, a defensive halfback, and ya know. Lock my friend, good friend Lock would be the defensive halfbacks and sometimes would be on offense. We had some good running backs. I was, I'm slow, so I wasn't ya know that fast but I could play defense. So, but we had a great time. I did earn a letter. I played enough junior and senior year to get a letter, which I was happy with. Other activities? I didn't do, I don't think I did any other activities at Norwich. I got in trouble is what I did that was the other activities I was… JENNIFER PAYNE: What did you get in trouble for? NATE PLAMER Stupid, stupid things. Freshman year we came back, we had Christmas. We were throwing firecrackers out the third floor of Alumni Hall. So they came up and we'd thr-, we'd turn the lights off, throw the firecracker out and about 8 or 9 o'clock everybody's coming back. A upperclassman saw the firecrackers coming out, came up and I got 30 days CMC. Sophomore year, pretty much the same thing except we were throwing whiskey bottles out. JENNIFER PAYNE: Empty? NATE PLAMER: Yeah, we weren't throwing full ones out, they were empty when we threw them out! So I got 60 days for that. So I have that's 30 days my freshman year, 60 days my sophomore year. Junior year, I don't know what we were doing but I got 90 days CMC for creating a disturbance on the upper parade ground, I don't know what we were doing. So for three years in a row, the spring I was in my room and so my fourth year when we had the raid on Vermont College I was up there but I stood in the middle of the quad and didn't go into any of the rooms. Let me see, Colonel, I think it was Ferguson, grabbed me two or three times up there, ya know, but when I had to go in front of the board they called us all in, everybody they called in, wanted to know what we did, and so. They asked, "Were you up there?" I said yes sir. "Were you in the dorms?" No sir I was not. "Now you sure?" I'm sure, I stood in the middle of that quad. And it was fine, so I didn't get CMC, I didn't get any tours for that. But I'd finally grown up and realized and another problem was when I was a junior they put out a, ya know they put out general orders out and special orders all the time. They put out a general order that on your second CMC you'd be automatically expelled for 6 months or a year. I had already been on three times when the letter came out. So I don't know whether that got my attention but I decided that I'd better grow up (Laughing). I mean I came here I was 17 years old so I was ya know young and stupid. Let me see, what did you do to relax? Drink beer I guess. JENNIFER PAYNE: At, in the dorms or did you go out. NATE PLAMER: On occasion we would. Ya know, I mean. Jack and I junior year, now this is the 90 day CMC. I think we probably got it in the spring, because I think I only ended up doing 30, ya know because the school year ran out and they didn't carry the CMC's over, thank god. So Jack and I in, they had graduation ya know. I think graduation might have been Sunday and we're in, Saturday night we're in the CMC, you have to sign out on your door and we had somebody go out. We were going to go home the next day and we sent one of our friends out to get a case of beer a piece to go home with. So we're sitting in our room and we got thirsty and we figured nobody's going to come up so we got the cases of beer and we started to drink. And we had the record player blasting. I was What I Said by Ray Charles or somebody. So Jack has to go to the bathroom so he goes out, locks the door and it was Pete Smith, who was also on CMC in there. He was from down the hall. Jack locks the door, we got the record player so loud that when Jack is back he's banging at the door and he says "Nate the sarge and I are out here." Well we couldn't hear that. All we did was hear the door and all of a sudden I opened the door, I got a beer in one hand, open the door in the other and there is Sergeant Iovany. Regular army sergeant coming around checking on the CMCs to make sure they were in their room. And then I, how about a beer Sarge, cause I knew I was going to get kicked out of school, I knew it. We, the beer, we had a standard waste basket, ya know. It was so full the beers, the cans were all over the floor. So he came in and sat with us for about a half an hour talking and we didn't know what he was doing. So he gets up to leave he says "Hey boys you better clean this mess up" and that was it. And I'm telling you we were never so, well I don't know scared, but I knew, we knew we were going to be kicked out of school. So I guess that's, we did do a little drinking. Not very much, but now that's on CMC (Laughing). Not very smart thing to do (Laughing). JENNIFER PAYNE: Well you were thirsty. NATE PLAMER: Huh? JENNIFER PAYNE: You were thirsty. NATE PLAMER: Well we were bored. Ya know everybody's out having a good time. The guys are coming in, they got their girlfriends, ya know downstairs and this and that. And we're sitting in the room, marking times. Like being in prison, ya know. So we knew we had the beer in the car outside, so I don't know whether we went out or somebody brought it in to us but it was, Jack and I never forgot that. JENNIFER PAYNE: What time of year was it? NATE PLAMER: That was June 6th the moment we graduated, we were going home the next day, they were graduation weekend (Laughs). JENNIFER PAYNE: Summer (Laughs). NATE PLAMER: Let me see, where did we go for entertainment? I think the entertainment was, for my crowd was getting dates with the girls and so in the spring and the fall we would go to Vermont College and, ya know get those girls and we'd go, usually we'd go up to the airport. You could go sit at the airport and watch the plans come in and we'd drink up there or we'd go to, in the spring you'd go out in a farmer's field and you'd shovel it off so that you get the snow off it early spring so that it would dry out so you'd go put your blankets out there. So then in the winter, we'd go down to Green Mountain and especially when you were younger because you could drink in New York when you were 18. So we would drive down to Green Mountain, we would get dates and then we'd drive over to Branardo's or the Hampton Manor and they had a band over there, we'd dance all night. We had just the best time then we'd bring the girls back and then would drive home and that, we have more stories of coming home, who would drive, who's car, how many people you had in the car. The last car out of there, had to take everybody that was left at Norwich. We, I could remember one time I was sitting in the back seat and there was four of us in the back seat and there were either two or three people laying like cord wood on top of our legs and I'm not kidding you. One time we were coming back and this is not just us this happened all the time. But I was sitting there asleep in the back seat and all the, ya know riding and this and that everything's fine. All of a sudden I felt a little bump, it was bumpy and so it woke me up and, ya know it was sort of dark all of sudden it was like somebody turned the lights one. It was the brightest thing you've ever seen in your life. All of a sudden I felt a sort of flying sensation and then boom. We had gone off the road and the white light was because he hit a snowbank and all the snow was coming back and reflecting off the front headlights. So it was bright as it could be and then they bang was we hit, in the farmer's field on the snow. I mean and that was just, that was me, in that car. But you talk to 20 guys and they all got the same story in their car doing something else. So that was our entertainment I guess. JENNIFER PAYNE: But the girls were from Green Mountain College? NATE PLAMER: Right JENNIFER PAYNE: Ok NATE PLAMER: So in the winter the girls were from Green Mountain and then in the spring, in the summer the girls were at Vermont College. So that's how I did it. And that's how all my friends did it, ya know the guys I hang out with and then it took us, it took me a six pack to get to Green Mountain and I was not in very good shape when I finally got to Green Mountain to sign out the girls. See that's young, young, of course I wasn't 18, I wasn't 21 drinking on the way down there either (Laughs). JENNIFER PAYNE: Songs? Do you remember any songs? NATE PLAMER: The only songs, the only songs we all remember "On the steps of Jackman," I mean as far as the Norwich song. I don't remember, what was it the Norwich, whatever that song is, I don't know that on. We all know "On the Steps of Jackman." JENNIFER PAYNE: And what's, how does that, what's that, how does that go? NATE PLAMER: On the steps of Jackman, crying like hell, lies a new born baby. Can't you hear that son of a bitch and bastard yell? Who could be his father, maybe it's you. Just another bastard son of old NU (Laughing). So that's, we all know that song (Laughing). But this, the green fields or whatever, the Norwich song, I don't know what the words to that one are (Laughs). I guess my favorite instructor must have been Professor Munger, he was in civil engineering and, but I don't remember the professors, ya know. Least favorite class at Norwich? I don't know, they were all hard for me. Ya know, I mean so I guess they were all my least favorites. I didn't have, ya know anything that I just didn't really like. It's just they're all, I was, I don't know. I didn't know how to study, I never learned how to study at Norwich. I finally had to go in the Army to learn how to study. Ya know, stupid, you'd think a college kid would know how to study, I didn't. What do I remember being a rook? What I remember, in those days we used to have to brace up against the wall. So when the corporal came by you'd have to brace so we were in Alumni and Alumni's old and it's got those old plaster walls and we'd used to have the water bucket to keep the place from burning down, get some moisture. Well I said I used to be a football player, was a football player. Well I could brace as hard as you've ever seen. I hit the wall one time and knocked the plaster off the wall in the inside. The guy, the two kids in the inside, "hey what's going on? All the plaster…" so after that they said we couldn't hit the wall hard, we just had to brace up close to it, but not hit it. JENNIFER PAYNE: So, tell us a little bit more about bracing. NATE PLAMER: Bracing was, you would, if you walking down parallel to the corridor you were right against the wall, shoulders against the wall and upperclassmen, I guess a corporal came by you would put your back parallel to the wall and you would hit the wall with your back and your feet against the thing, against the kick plate on the bottom. Well I could, I could really hit the wall hard and so that's what happened. That's one thing I remember about my rook year. Knocking the plaster off the wall. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow NATE PLAMER: How were you disciplined? Well ya know we all had the corporals and the sergeants as a freshmen and we couldn't talk to the upper classmen and we'd get tours if you didn't, ya know proper shave or shine or ya know. But I, just normal stuff, nothing special, just. All right, what was the hardest part of attending Norwich? I think, I think hardest part was the traveling back and forth. I, ya know, was about a 4 hour trip from the Boston area up here. Ya know we didn't have 89 at the time. So it was just a long ride and, but I think other than that. That's about the only thing that I remember that was hard up here. You had a lot of friends, I mean so we had a lot of fun. Let me see, what was the most important thing that Norwich taught me? Ya know, I, I would like to say integrity but in honesty but I think that's, you're sort of born with that stuff I think. But I think Norwich reinforces that, I think ya know the no lying, cheating, stealing, those are good things and but I think if you come up here and you're a lair, a cheater, a stealer, Norwich is not going to change you. But I think if you have the, ya know that, those qualities I think Norwich reinforces it, and I think it's, I think it's great. There was a great article on I'm not sure how long ago but I just put it out to the class. Frank Minter, I think he's class of '86. Wrote the article in Forbes and talked about, ya know the integrity at Norwich and the honor code. He said, Norwich has got about what, eight or ten words. He said Harvard's got 1800 (Laughing). He says it just has to be simple, it does, ya don't have to explain, ya know. So I think, ya know the Norwich code is good. I think it's good for the students and I think, ya know if you can live by it you're alright. So I think that's what it taught me. I've talked about the, some of the funny stories. There are thousands and thousands of funny things that we did. I don't tell a very good story but if you get some guys up here. Really, really great funny, funny things that happened. And after graduation, I was an engineer so I got recruited to go to the state of California to be a highway engineer. My good friend Cy Danforth and I had bought a car. Bought a car together and we drove to California. JENNIFER PAYNE: What kind of car? NATE PLAMER: It was a Dodge, it was a convertible, it had big wings, a 59 Dodge. It was the most beautiful thing you ever saw in your life. And so six of us went out there, two of us had jobs and Bob Goldstein had another convertible and so they had three car, they had three in their car. We had three in our car and we drove cross country and it was the funniest thing. We, I would drive in the morning so I could sit in the back seat and drink in the afternoon (Laughs). And we went across the Mississippi in St. Louis and somebody had mentioned, yeah you get a bottle of vodka or something and you get a watermelon and you make a whole in the top of the watermelon. Stick the bottle in there then you can, ya know eat the watermelon. Well we tried that and we had a big watermelon fight going across the Mississippi throwing the watermelon back and forth to each other. We ran, sort of ran out of money about Las Vegas. And so Goldy had been to Las Vegas, I think that summer or the year before, he said we can make some money. So we'll to Vegas, we'll take our money, we'll parley that, and that will get us to LA. That's were Cy and I had jobs. So we went to Las Vegas. I don't know how much money we lost but we didn't leave there with more money than we started with. So we ended up going to LA, the six of us, my cousin was living in Corona del Mar at the time. We slept on her floor for two nights. We went up to Hollywood and got two apartments right behind Grauman's Chinese Theater and that's where we spent the summer and then Cy and I went to the state of California, which was in LA and got jobs. The other guys tried to get jobs. Billy Zuydhoek was a meat cutter, he cut meat (Laughing). Goldy, Goldy was going to be a veterinarian. He got a job for a, as a vet. As an assistant in a veterinarian place. Steve Lockwood, I think we worked for an insurance company. He got a job for an insurance company and Dick Macy sold encyclopedias door to door (Laughing). And that's what we did in the summer until we all had to go into the service. Every couple of months somebody would leave to go in the service and we left, I think we left Steve Lockwood there, cause I don't think he had to go in the service until May. Cy and I left in December cause we had to go in service in January and… JENNIFER PAYNE: What year was this? NATE PLAMER: This is June to 63, we graduated June 63 and then we, Cy and I reported the 1st of July to the state of California in LA and then in 64, January 64 six months later Cy and I had to report to Fort Belvoir Virginia for, to go on active duty. So while we were in California Cy Danforth worked for a, one design squad and I worked for another one. Well his boss was Elmo Duglass and Elmo was, had been in the Army. Retired, got out as a Captain, he was a black guy and he said, Cy you have got to go in Airborne. He says you got to, ya know if you're going to go into the service you need to go to Airborne. So Si and I own the car together. We drive to Fort Belvoir and Cy says we got to sign up for Airborne. Elmo says we got to go to Airborne school. So we sign up to take the PT test. We go down to Fort Benning cause we own the car together, we gotta go together. We went down to Benning, we went through Airborne school. It was more fun, but the third week you do jump training, jump. And so we all get in the Airplane and I'm looking around and says I've never been in an airplane before. I'm about ready to jump out of it (Laughing). So I had five take offs and no landings in an airplane. So that's, that was in, I think that was May or June of 64. JENNIFER PAYNE: What was your rank? NATE PLAMER: I was a second lieutenant, so we all went in as second lieutenants and then some of us stayed in and some of us, ya know. So I ended up two years active and 20 years in the reserve. So was ending up as a lieutenant colonel. JENNIFER PAYNE: Really? NATE PLAMER: Which was just great. I had a great time. Very difficult, hard but it was good. JENNIFER PAYNE: And you served in California? NATE PLAMER: Went to France, because I took two years of French in high school so I could say parle vous francaise, and they gave everybody a language test when you went into the service to see what you could do. And so I ended up going to France, all my friends went to Vietnam, they went to Germany. All our class, friends, classmates and some went to Vietnam, Korea. We went all over the place, but I ended up in France because I had taken two years of French in high school. JENNIFER PAYNE: Where in France were you? NATE PLAMER: Verdun and then Etain and I was second lieutenant and then promoted to first lieutenant and I got there and I think two days after I got there I had to lead the platoon on a road march down from Verdun to Chalons I think. Now I've been in country two days and I'm taking the platoon down there. I had to sign for a million dollars' worth of equipment. Ya know so you're a second lieutenant and they say ok here's all your equipment sign for it. When you leave in two years it'd better all be here or you're going to pay for it and that's what a second lieutenant does. That's what an Army officer does, ya know. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow NATE PLAMER: Yeah, wow, sign, ya know 22 years old, 21 years old sign for a million dollars' worth of equipment. Gas masks, rifles, bayonets, helmets, yeah. JENNIFER PAYNE: What else did you do in France? NATE PLAMER: I, ya know I guess that was about it. Ya know I was just a second lieutenant, first lieutenant, was in 97th engineer battalion. Went to the, go to the officer's club, ya know at night at a, ya know, it was fine. Then when I came back as an officer we had a six year commitment. So you have two active, two active reserve, and then two inactive reserve at that time. So I left France, went back to California and tried to find an engineer unit to attend weekend training as an engineer. Well the reserves didn't have engineers at that time. They had other things, so I had to join the National Guard if I wanted to be in a engineer unit and they had an engineer company in Burbank, California. So I went down there and said, ya know I've just got off active duty I need a, ya know two years as active reserve. I didn't realize how much they needed people like me, because usually they don't, the officers that they have are a, they have not been on active duty. Here I walk in, I'm a first lieutenant, just had two years active duty. It was like gold walking in there, it was really wonderful. And so I ended up spending, let me see, 66 to 79 in the California National Guard when I moved back to Massachusetts and spent the rest of the time in the reserves. JENNIFER PAYNE: Where in Massachusetts? NATE PLAMER: Acton, Massachusetts, which is where I live and, but the reserves we would go to. I was attached to the Navy. JENNIFER PAYNE: You were attached to the… NATE PLAMER: So I'm an Army officer attached to the Navy. So we would go to London for annual training. I'd go to Hamber-, what was it, Italy, Germany, was great duty. So that's every summer I'd be gone for 30 days to, ya know. JENNIFER PAYNE: Which division of the Navy were you in? NATE PLAMER: It was, it was a naval reserve unit and they were in charge of the Middle East. That was the area that we had to provide engineering service for the Middle East. We had naval personal, we had Air Force, we had some guys from the Air Force, couple guys from the Army, and it was just like a training unit but if something happened they could call us up and, ya know go over and we'd have the expertise to do specific jobs. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow NATE PLAMER: So it was good, it was good. But, ya know sometimes you get boring going to, ya know I like to do things. I don't like to sit around, ya know. Where are we? JENNIFER PAYNE: Ok. NATE PLAMER: You're not doing much talking here. JENNIFER PAYNE: I'm listening. How did your training prepare you for your work life? You said the Army was really where you learned organization or studying. NATE PLAMER: I just said I liked to work, I don't like to. When I left California I went back into my family business. I bought into my father's and my brother's business. And it's a furniture moving company, we have trucks and warehouses and stuff and it was very busy back in the 80s. Everything was go, go, go. I was working, I worked seven days a week. I worked seven days a week for maybe 20 years and loved every minute of it. Just really, I mean Sundays I would work maybe four or five hours. Saturday, six or seven but the other days, I would ya know and do everything. As an owner you do everything. So we built a business and bought warehouses, bought trucks but I think it's, I like to work, I like to do things, I don't like to. In California when I was an engineer, in California sometimes of the money runs out they don't do too much, ya know you have to sit at a desk and, ya know you don't see too much come out the end of the pipeline. Ya know it takes a lot of time to design a highway and do something. You don't see much come out. So when I had the chance to leave California and buy into the family business I thought it was a good idea. JENNIFER PAYNE: What's the name of the family business? NATE PLAMER: John Palmer Moving and Storage and I was in California and my father and brother where in the process of buying the business from my uncle. They wanted to build a new warehouse, so me being and engineer, they sent me the plans and I designed the warehouse for them and then after a while I said well why don't I just come be part of the business. So we built a warehouse and nice warehouse, 1,500 square feet. Couple years later we bought another warehouse, couple years after we added on to that warehouse. So it was very, the 80s and 90s were very. When housing was booming, people buying houses, not like it is today. It was just go, go, go, so. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow. What advice would you give a Rook today about how to survive and thrive? NATE PLAMER: I think from being a business owner the Rook needs to look, not what he's doing, but look at somebody that is looking at him. What do they expect from me, how can I make the University or make whatever I'm doing better. Ya know, instead of, I'll put it as a perspective somebody coming in for a job. Ya know some people walk in, here I am, ya know, what do you want me to do? Versus being able to walk in and say I can do this for you, your company is going to be better because you hire me, because I know this and this and this and I will do this and this and this for you. So if you can look outside and from the outside as maybe that tak-officer is looking at you. What does he expect from me? So do it before he has to ask you to do it. Ya know, you're going to do better. Maybe you don't feel like doing that, but that's how to get along. Ya know, versus fighting the problem all the time. So look at it from the other person's perspective, of what he expects from you and you'll do far, far better. It will be a lot easier on you then fighting it. JENNIFER PAYNE: That's good advice. That's very good advice. Do you have any relatives at Norwich? Did you have any relatives? Do you… NATE PLAMER: I didn't, no, not at Norwich. I had two guys a year ahead of me in high school that came here and one graduated, one didn't. But that's, I don't have any… JENNIFER PAYNE: No kids, or grandkids? NATE PLAMER: No my kids didn't like the military. They said if they could start as a sergeant, fine but they're not starting as a rook anyplace (Laughing). Bad upbringing. JENNIFER PAYNE: What does "I Will Try" mean to you today? NATE PLAMER: I think do the best you can. Do, ya know, just try, just bust your fanny to do what you're supposed to do. Ya know I just got back a week and a half ago from a 2400 mile bicycle trip. Great Falls Montana to Acton Massachusetts. I did it in 35 days. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow. NATE PLAMER: By myself. JENNIFER PAYNE: By yourself? NATE PLAMER: Yup and… JENNIFER PAYNE: By yourself. NATE PLAMER: Yeah, on a bicycle, you got to. It was very, very hard, but you have to, ya know, I mean everything hurt. But, ya know, so you have to get up every morning. I'd have to get up, now I'm going to do 70 to 100 miles today. No matter what hurt I had, ya know, I had a specific time frame that I had to be home in and I'd done a list of where I'd want to be every single night. I missed by one day. So I did 2,400 miles and missed by one day. JENNIFER PAYNE: Wow. NATE PLAMER: So that's what "I Will Try," just because something hurts, or something doesn't go right, or I don't feel good today. That's not a good excuse, ya know you got to, you got to work. Ya know you got to. JENNIFER PAYNE: Is there anything else you'd like to say? Do you want to talk about your project that you've done for the reunion? This is your 50th reunion. I don't know if you want to mention that? NATE PLAMER: Right, it is our 50th reunion. I've chosen to be the secretary. About a year ago, we started this about a year ago. We lost two very good classmates, very good. Within two weeks of each other and we didn't have a way of notifying the class that they had died. So in case you wanted to go to the wake or funeral. So we decided we would get everybody's email. So we started with that and then I had to learn how to use a computer because I was almost computer illiterate and so as I started doing that I had a printer and decided to do some pictures of this and that. Went to the archives and got pictures there. So now I have over 5,000 photographs of everybody in the class. JENNIFER PAYNE: 5,000. NATE PLAMER: 5, about 55, maybe almost 6,000 photographs that I've gotten from the archives, from the year books. I've got every, I think I have every picture of every guy that I can find in the archives and each in an album. So some guys have 30 pictures and I can email the 30 pictures to the guy and say this is your 4 years at Norwich. These are the pictures and so it's nice. So I learned how to use a computer printer. I have some beautiful photographs. I did the name tags for everybody. I learned how to do that by apple, because I had bought an apple computer and they will train you how to use it. It's been wonderful because I get a chance to email all the guys. Some guys will call me and we talk and it's like 50 years ago. It's just, ya know. All my friends are Norwich guys. I mean I have, ya know, they're just all my friends, ya know I got some great, great friends. We go in the winter, we go to Florida. One of the guys has a big boat. There'll be 8 or 10 of us on the boat for a week, 10 days playing golf. I just have great friends. JENNIFER PAYNE: That wonderful. Is there anything else you want… NATE PLAMER: No, no. Did we cover everything? JENNIFER PAYNE: We did. I didn't ask you, I know you didn't participate in the pantie raids so you really couldn't talk about what happened. NATE PLAMER: No, I, what we have is I asked everybody to right me a note on exactly what their participation was. I wrote one on what I did but some of the guys will tell me and some guys won't. But I have a binder on the pantie raid. JENNIFER PAYNE: Were the news reports of fire hoses and students running crazy… NATE PLAMER: Yes that's accurate. JENNIFER PAYNE: Was that exaggerated? NATE PLAMER: I don't think so because I had never seen. When I was up there I did not see the hoses but I've had guys write to me and it was one of the funniest things, he said one guy was hiding behind the tree and they tried to get him with the hose and I think some of the guys grabbed the hose from fires, from the firemen and started spraying the firemen. But I'm not sure the seniors did all of this. The seniors did some. But there were freshmen, sophomores, and juniors there. So everybody participated. When the school did the disciplining they would give the tours to the seniors but they would kick the underclassmen out and I'm not sure what the criteria was at for. But the underclassmen I think took a little harsher punishment then the upperclassmen but I think we got 8 or 10 guys that did tours, ya know and they were happy to do it. Because they figured they're gunna get kicked out so doing 10 tours was peanuts to them (Laughing). But, ya know it was a fun, it started out as a fun thing it could have ended up just no problem but as soon as the authorities got involved, then it just ya know. JENNIFER PAYNE: Yeah, historic though. NATE PLAMER: It is ya know, I think the school wants to try and forget it but none of the guys, I mean that's what we'll be talking about at the reunion and we got a 170 people coming back. With wives so what we got 60% of the people of our classmates are coming back. JENNIFER PAYNE: That's wonderful. NATE PLAMER: And 36, we started with I think 193 and we have 36 that are deceased and there's only 4 of the whole class that I can't find, yup. So we did pretty good, we did pretty good. JENNIFER PAYNE: Well thank you very much for your time.